The South Carolina GOP debate; Update 9:26pm Fred goes after Huckabee; 9:36pm – Fred’s on fire, Hume embarrasses Paul; 9:50pm – It’s the battle of the one-liners; 10:36pm Winners and losers
10:36pm Eastern. The debate is finished. (Here’s the AP’s take. Kind of fun to compare it with mine. Allah has post-debate focus group video and analysis.) Fred will be declared the clear winner. There are a lot of folks on our side of the blogosphere who were pulling for him. He delivered his one-liners better than anyone else. As I noted below, someone gave him some Red Bull. He aggressively attacked Huckabee, showed humor, and looked comfortable on stage.
But.
He doesn’t have the intestinal fortitude to go after John McCain. And judging from the audience reaction, Mike Huckabee’s South Carolina evangelical base is sticking with him.
Romney was a big loser tonight. His delivery was wooden. The other candidates ignored him. In just four/five days, he seems to have completely lost that front-runner status.
McCain didn’t do himself harm. Nothing gained or lost. It’s everyone else who failed to challenge McCain who lost.
What does this say about the state of the GOP?
Brit Hume will be getting a tsunami of Ronulan hate mail for handing Paul his head on his Iran/Strait of Hormuz answer. Brit, they’ll be with you for life.
Here’s the Hume/Paul smackdown vid via Hot Air:
10:29pm Eastern. Thompson: High fences, wide gates. We decide when to open and close it. Fred goes soft on his “friend John McCain” over amnesty. Weak. He doesn’t have the stomach to take McCain on.
Paul: If we subsidize something, you get more of it. Gives economic argument against illegal immigration. Cites health care subsidies and welfare state. Yes. He’s right. “The law is the law and we should enforce the law.”
Huckabee reels off his nine-point plan but says: “We should have the assumption that everybody here is legal, not illegal.”
WHAT!?
Giuliani is asked about sanctuary. He’s defending his sanctuary policy. “He’s very proud of it.” Yes, I’m tuning him out.
Wait. He just made me laugh: “I would be the best at stopping illegal immigration.”
10:25pm Eastern. McCain gets first immigration question from Goler. McCain says shamnesty failed because of lack of trust. Well, it was also because shamnesty is a reckless, bad idea–and because of the arrogant way in which McCain and company wanted to ram this bad idea down our throats. Recycles his Geraldo line about not deporting illegal alien relatives of soldiers.
Smattering of applause.
But how would he remove illegal aliens?
Romney: Secure the border, have the fence, Border Patrol, employer verification. Our difference is what we do with 12 million. They should stand in line. Not be given special pathway or privilege. Applause. Send ‘em home and wait in line.
10:23pm Eastern. Ok, we’re at our last commercial break. It looks like they have saved immigration for last. While we wait, here are the vids of Fred’s made-for-YouTube one-liner moments from the first part of the debate via Hot Air:
Attacking Huckabee’s Dem coalition:
Meet the virgins:
10:19pm Eastern. Huckabee defends his faith, comments on marriage/wife. Gets strong applause from SC crowd. “Marriage is an important institution. It teaches us how to love.” Strong applause from the audience.
Cameron on Paul. “Electability: Do you have any?” Laughter. He appeals to fiscal conservatism to fend off attacks that he less Republican than other candidates. Applause.
10:15pm Eastern. Rudy is asked about 9/11 and what makes him equipped to fight the war on terror, but he answers by saying Democrats will take change out of our pockets. Goes back to reciting his resume. Same stuff from the weekend. Here we go with the Saudi prince line. Did you know that he returned the money? Naww. Hadn’t heard that before.
He’s like the Bill Richardson of the GOP field.
Am I the only one not listening to Rudy anymore?
10:08pm Eastern. Back from the break, Romney’s giving his Obama change speech. Change. Broken Washington. Change. Change. Change. Zzzzzzz.
McCain’s turn to repeat his surge speech, the same change speech he gave during the weekend debate. Can someone please stop the talking points? We heard all of this four/five days ago.
Thompson goes after Huckabee again…this time on his tax record. I ask again: Will Fred go after McCain?
10:04pm Eastern. It’s halftime. The Fredheads will be going wild, with good reason. He woke up tonight. But is it too little, too late? And will it be enough to move South Carolina voters? Thompson’s focusing his sights on Huckabee. But what about McCain. We haven’t touched immigration yet. Will Fred go after McCain?
***
Scroll down for updates from first half of the debate..the debate got off to a slow start, but it’s hopping now…Fred’s seizing the moment, Romney and Giuliani have been non-entities so far…Brit Hume handed Ron Paul his head…the campaigns’ joke-writers worked overtime–it’s the battle of the one-liners…
***
START OF THE DEBATE.
9:00pm. I’m starting a new thread. We’ll see if any of our questions get asked. The debate is livestreaming at FoxNews.com. Got your popcorn? Red Bull? Here we go…
9:02pm. I think this is the first time I’ve ever seen the National Anthem performed at one of these things. Nice!
Introductions of the candidates. Is it just me or does the debate set-up make it look like they’re all going to play Jeopardy?
The bell will ding if they go over time. The bell sounds like it’s from Quiz Show!
First topic: The economy. Chris Wallace is doing the questioning. Are we headed for a recession?
Romney: Maybe we are, maybe we aren’t. Cites Mass. record, economic turnaround.
Oh, no. His first proposal: “Stop the housing crisis.”
Wallace, please follow up!!!! Is he for Bush/Hillarycare for housing or not? If not, what the heck does he mean.
NO FOLLOW-UP.
Wallace throws it to McCain. McCain wants “straight talk.” He’s dissing Mitt’s Mass. jobs record. McCain thinks it’s the federal government’s job to retrain people who’ve been laid off.
This is Clintonspeak.
McCain gives some stump talking points about the need to control spending and reduce foreign oil dependency. “Education and training” is important. No more earmarks. “I’m called the Sheriff…I didn’t win Miss Congeniality.”
Wallace goes to Huckabee, cites his ad on the economy. Do you want an economic stimulus package?
Huckabee cites recession-creating factors: Fuel prices, subprime mortages. There’s culpability on both lender and borrowers… “I commend the president.” Says Bush approach doesn’t involve tax dollars.
Bull.
Huckabee sounds a lot softer than he did a few weeks ago:
In an interview on Fox News recently, you said that the government should not be bailing out people whose mortgages are about to reset to interest rates that they can’t afford. Foreclosures are at record rates right now. Wouldn’t doing nothing — as millions of Americans risk losing their homes — smack of Herbert Hoover deferring to the market as 25 percent of Americans were unemployed in the Depression?
Not at all. What you have is a situation where you have culpability on the part of the lenders and the borrowers. The fact is you need to encourage the lenders to try to work with those who have borrowed to keep from foreclosure because ultimately nobody wins. The banks don’t need an enormous inventory of property on their hands that they can’t move any more than the market can. The lender doesn’t need to be in default and ultimately bankruptcy and out of a home.
But what we don’t need is a government bailout. That is not the purpose of government, to prop people up from every poor decision they make. In fact, when you do that … whether it’s in the world of finance or the world of drug addiction … it creates an enabling codependency. It’s the last thing that really helps people.
Is there some way to bring some resolve to it? Yes. But it needs to be handled by the … people who made the mistake in the first place: overambitious borrowers and greedy lenders, who saw a way to suck people into interest rates that they should have known they couldn’t afford in the long term.
Ron Paul speaks. We’re in a recession because of…the Austrian theory of the business cycle. “The housing market is in a depression.” Lower interest rates? That’s the problem. That allows the inevitable recession to come. Don’t pretend that artificial stimulus is going to help.
Well, miracle of miracles, he didn’t mention the military-industrial complex.
Fred gets a turn. What a great opportunity he has to attack the Bush/Hillarycare approach to the housing crisis…
…never mind. HE WANTS A FISCAL STIMULUS. “It needs to be considered somewhere down the line.”
That’s the end of the economic discussion.
Geez, that was unsatisfying.
Carl Cameron goes to Huckabee on the survival of a Reagan coalition. Huckbee is giving a stump speech. He appeals to social cons and then does his economic populist thing–appealing to single moms.
McCain: The Reagan principles…we’ve gone away from…we came to power to change government and government changed us….cites Bridge to Nowhere…
Dan Riehl points out a new jobs entitlement that McCain’s been apparently pimping.
Romney gets an abortion question. He deflects and answers the Reagan coalition question. Another stump speech.
Someone needs to start interrupting them and throw them off their talking points.
Romney’s droning on. “Strengthen the economy. I’ll make sure they come to Amerca.”
Stop, stop, stop, stop, stop!
FINALLY!!!!
***9:26pm Fred interrupts.***
He wants to address the Reagan revolution. “This is a battle for the heart and soul of the Republican Party.” Fred’ attacks Huckabee. He would be a Christian leader, but he would also be a liberal economic populist, gets NEA endorsement, would close Gitmo, ban smoking.
YES, YES, YES, YES!!
Fred: “That’s not the model of the Reagan revolution. That’s the model of the Democrat party.”
Crowd erupts in appaluse.
Huckabee answers. Sticks to defending Arkansas record. Some applause.
Giuliani gets a question. Cameron asks him to state why he’s a complete conservative “without quoting George Will.” Heh. Giuliani talks about working for Reagan, peace through strength.
Zzzzzzzzzz.
9:31pm Eastern. Cameron goes to Paul on the Truthers. Are you prepared to embrace that rhetoric or abandon it?
I can’t tell them what to do, but I’ve abandoned it.
Cameron: Would you ask them to cease it? I don’t endorse what they say.
Could I please participate in the current debate? Wants to address whether we’ve lost our way.
9:33pm Eastern. Commercial break.
9:36pm Eastern. We’re back. Brit Hume asks Huckabee if US officers responded correctly in the Strait of Hormuz incident. Huck: “Prepare to face the gates of Hell.” Applause.
***Fred’s turn.*** He pulls out a one-liner that gets applause: “I think one more step and they would have been introduced to those virgins they’re looking forward to seeing.” Applause.
I think someone gave Fred a Red Bull. This is the liveliest I’ve ever seen him at one of these debates.
Well, it is do or die time. I’d say he’s doing.
And I’d say Rudy’s dying. He’s talking, but without any pep. More careful now than with conviction. He does make a good point about the NIE and Iran’s perception of American weakness.
Brit asks McCain what he would have done if he were captain. McCain talks about history, freedom of the seas, praises Navy’s professionalism.
***Ron Paul complains about “rush to judgement” and waves the “Bush-as-war-mongerer” flag. Moonbats will be partially assuaged after getting
Brit points out that all the candidates all supported the commander’s decision to be passive. What are you reacting to?
Audience is laughing at Ron Paul.***
Romney – Paul shouldn’t be reading so many of Ahmadenijad’s press releases. (Mix of applause and boos).
9:48pm Eastern. McCain champions the surge on the anniversary of its introduction. Rudy goes after McCain, asserting that he supported the surge, too. Sorry, but Rudy is really a non-entity.
Paul gives his “blowback” speech.
McCain responds, tries to shoehorn in a packaged one-liner. “I’m not interested in trading with al Qaeda, the only thing they trade is burkas. I’m not interested in traveling with them. They only use one-way tickets.”
Thompson’s one-liner on Iraq: “You know it’s good news coming out of Iraq because you read so little about it in the NYTimes.” Talks Pakistan.
Romney talks about Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, and Iran, but “we need to think more broadly…move moderate Islam to greater strength…ultimately, move the world of Islam so Muslims themselves reject the extreme.”
10:00pm Eastern. Huckabee challenges Paul, gives a strong defense of Israel. Annihilation of Israel, which is what our enemies want, “would not happen under my presidency.”
Appaluse.
Paul: “We treat Israel as a stepchild, undermine their sovereignty.” Why do we arm their enemies? No reason for not treating Israel in an adult fashion. “Besides, we don’t have any money to do this.”
Giuliani chimes in: Idea that it’s treated as a stepchild is absurd. Repeats Huckabee.
Thompson goes after Huckabee on Pakistan. “Our supporting of their military is a good thing.” Hmmm.
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And it was done beautifully.
IT was nice to hear the anthem and nobody acting dumb while doing so.
Okay, prepare for the dodging and ignoring and Dr. Nuts
The anthem was a nice touch.
Go Fred !!!…time to romp and stomp
Mitt: “Stop the housing crisis”.
He just lost my vote(not that he ever had it).
Yah good luck fixin what Granholm and her crew won’t.
No Red Bull, but plenty of Sam Adams.
Get rid of those people “doing the jobs Americans won’t do” and the unemployment rate would be even lower than it already is.
with no follow up its basically rhetoric.
Yes, the National Anthem was a nice touch and a very nice rendition.
“I’ll make the authors of it famous”, I like that. Good line.
Is the Huskster at the wrong debate?
I love the National Anthem being played. That showed a great appreciation for what (we) do and should feel about this wonderful Nation.
As much as I don’t like him, at least Huckabee laid some of the blame for the sub-prime mortgage “crisis” at the feet of the borrowers. Probably more than any of the others would have done.
Yea but, like his drunken sailor quote he’s used it about 900 times. He needs some new stump quotes.
Did McCain just mention making the tax cuts permanent? The same tax cuts he said he wouldn’t vote for again?
McCain wants to make tax cuts perment that he voted against. Liar he wants to raise taxes
Headline, McCain, “make tax cuts permanent”
I hate when I agree with Ron Paul. He is economically sound to an extent.
Fred is last, but where did I hear the last shall be first?
Why is Ron allowed at this debate they should of barred him again.
So that’s Ron Paul…
A free market economy will work itself out on it’s own, leave it alone!
On top of everything else the Huckster is a smarta$$ too
Huckabee is not a ‘Reagan’ Republican. And the fact that he breathes his name in the same vain I find disconcerting.
That’s what I was thinking; I’d never actually paid any attention to him before. He’s even crazier than I imagined. I didn’t understand a thing he said.
I agree I am disappointed, I only agreed with Paul in the fact that the puclic does have some responsibility for this due to our undisciplined spending.
Overall, the entire panel is underwhelming.
Now Mitt on Reagan……sheeesh!
We’re getting a sense of the depth of these guys: some go into technocratic detail (Rudy, Thompson) while others go off into warm and fuzzy stump speeches (McCain, Huckabee), and others straddle the two (Romney) while others go off into space (guess who). It’s too bad these guys are running for President, otherwise this might be a really interesting discussion.
FDT about to kick arse
yeah baby! go fred!
THOMPSON HIGHJACKS THE DEBATE DEMANDING TO ANSWER A QUESTION PUT TO OTHERS!
CRRRYYYYY- BAAAABYYYY!
Fred cuts in and leads forward! Yes! Gettin’ down in SC.
Go Fred Go
somebody has lite the fuse!!!! yes!
Bammmmm! yeah Baby! I donated to that guy!
Score one for Fred
Ouch. Fred just ripped Huckabee a new one.
God Bless FDT
I think Huckabee supports Planned Parenthood. He’s putting a ’sheath’ over his history:):)
There are rules to debates, Fred. learn ‘em.
“I made government work.” Not a good answer Mike.
Way to go, Fred!
They kept electing him as Gov,
They kept electing billy boy too, you jerk
he wanted to address the same question the other did cat, get over it.
I was about to propose a drinking game; but If I took a drink every time someone mentions Reagan tonight I wouldn’t make it to work tomorrow.
Rudy: Reagan won not because he was conservative, but because he was a the best leader who happened to be conservative. Brilliant distinction. One for Rudy big time.
YouTube. Tomorrow. I’ll watch it there. Yawn.
Would if we could always get our own way the way fred did tonight. It was still childish and unsportsmanlike.
Done on that. Moving on….
Ron Paul vs 9/11 Truthers.
Rudy looks good too…
GO FRED (and MITT)!
McCon is getting too much time.
Husband says Huckabee reminds him of the Scarecrow in the Wizard of Oz. He does have a fever, but I thought it was funny.
Ron can’t tell his supporters that 9/11 wasnt an inside job.
I will say Ron Paul is right about ‘robbing’ from Social Security
Ron should get off the stage
I’m just happy I get to participate in a no kidding active thread. It’s so rare I’m around during one.
Issues… over feelings yes I do believe our 40 yrs are over.
I always check my temperature with an accurate digital thermometer when Ron Paul begins to make sense, the way he did momentarily a moment ago.
I wish Paul wasn’t such a nut all of the time, I do agree with some of this points.
It was strong and to the point.
done with that moving on…
they are ships huckster…
Fred and the virgins! Goot one.
Yeah Fred! How freakin awesome is that?
There not boats there ships huck
I agreed with Huck and Fred on that one. How often is that gonna happen?
Fred: If they cross the line they will be destroyed. With regard to Iranian speed boats.
Ron and Rosie, sitting in a tree…
When did Rosie O’Donnell become a shriveled old man?
Oh the Tonkin Card. Whatever. Loser.
Wow, even Brit just made Paul look like a fool.
Brit gottem good.
Still childish, whiney, not presidential. Sorry.
Wow, Brit just woke Ron Paul up…
GET THE STAGE HOOK!
Hume pwned Ron
Is that people laughing at Ron Paul in the audience? About time.
I feel sorry for Paul at this point. He doesn’t stand a chance and now it’s just getting pathetic. Seriously.
Pathetic yes, but I don’t feel sorry for that fool. If the U.S. was looking for a reason to bomb Iran, wouldn’t supplying bombs that have been killing out troops in Iraq have been plenty?
I don’t support him but points for McCain right now. Thumbs up. (but if he says “my friends” one more time I’ll gag)
I know, Unclemoneky, it’s just my nature. I have a low patheticity threshold.
Even if I didn’t have a host of other reasons not to vote for McCain, it’d drive me nuts to hear him say ‘Worshington’ for 5 years.
Why is Ron still getting Questions?
aaaaghhh! my freakin cable just went out.
Ron Paul emphasizing ‘blowback’?
My God Ron Paul really has no understanding of the realities of the world.
McCain’s attempted humor fell flat – and he looks constipated. Still excellent overall on certain foreign policy issues — wonder how he would be as Sec of Defense?
Score another for Fred, ie NY Times slam
Exactly why I’m so opposed to him.
Deepdiver: McCain is against harsh treatment of terrorist POWs. Not sure Sec of Defense would be able to squeeze the info we need the way it needs to be squeezed.
Romney: “3-dimensional chess”. Is he a closet star trek nerd?
Early start tomorrow. Good Night all. Thanks Michelle.
McCain may be against waterboarding primarily because that happened t him. Yet, he’s here with us today, is he not? Do we know if he spilled the beans on anything?
If so, he may be able to win me over after all. Although, I’m actually a Buffy the Vampire Slayer nerd, we’re still related to the Trekkies.
Yeah, I know, Cat, also a concern of mine which is why I just wonder about it sometimes. Question is how much interrogation is by CIA not under SecDef and how much by military under SecDef? I ask because I don’t know. And would he be another Rumsfeld, who echoed McNamara in micromanaging the war? Would he actually, really let the military fight the war? Would he if he were President even?
Buffies are nothing like Trekkies
All the candidates are going after Paul because he makes them look good by comparison. This is getting sad. (they also waste time by giving Paul more time to orbit Pluto)
If Huckabee’s record backed up his rhetoric I’d be all for him.