The South Carolina GOP debate; Update 9:26pm Fred goes after Huckabee; 9:36pm – Fred’s on fire, Hume embarrasses Paul; 9:50pm – It’s the battle of the one-liners; 10:36pm Winners and losers
10:36pm Eastern. The debate is finished. (Here’s the AP’s take. Kind of fun to compare it with mine. Allah has post-debate focus group video and analysis.) Fred will be declared the clear winner. There are a lot of folks on our side of the blogosphere who were pulling for him. He delivered his one-liners better than anyone else. As I noted below, someone gave him some Red Bull. He aggressively attacked Huckabee, showed humor, and looked comfortable on stage.
But.
He doesn’t have the intestinal fortitude to go after John McCain. And judging from the audience reaction, Mike Huckabee’s South Carolina evangelical base is sticking with him.
Romney was a big loser tonight. His delivery was wooden. The other candidates ignored him. In just four/five days, he seems to have completely lost that front-runner status.
McCain didn’t do himself harm. Nothing gained or lost. It’s everyone else who failed to challenge McCain who lost.
What does this say about the state of the GOP?
Brit Hume will be getting a tsunami of Ronulan hate mail for handing Paul his head on his Iran/Strait of Hormuz answer. Brit, they’ll be with you for life.
Here’s the Hume/Paul smackdown vid via Hot Air:
10:29pm Eastern. Thompson: High fences, wide gates. We decide when to open and close it. Fred goes soft on his “friend John McCain” over amnesty. Weak. He doesn’t have the stomach to take McCain on.
Paul: If we subsidize something, you get more of it. Gives economic argument against illegal immigration. Cites health care subsidies and welfare state. Yes. He’s right. “The law is the law and we should enforce the law.”
Huckabee reels off his nine-point plan but says: “We should have the assumption that everybody here is legal, not illegal.”
WHAT!?
Giuliani is asked about sanctuary. He’s defending his sanctuary policy. “He’s very proud of it.” Yes, I’m tuning him out.
Wait. He just made me laugh: “I would be the best at stopping illegal immigration.”
10:25pm Eastern. McCain gets first immigration question from Goler. McCain says shamnesty failed because of lack of trust. Well, it was also because shamnesty is a reckless, bad idea–and because of the arrogant way in which McCain and company wanted to ram this bad idea down our throats. Recycles his Geraldo line about not deporting illegal alien relatives of soldiers.
Smattering of applause.
But how would he remove illegal aliens?
Romney: Secure the border, have the fence, Border Patrol, employer verification. Our difference is what we do with 12 million. They should stand in line. Not be given special pathway or privilege. Applause. Send ‘em home and wait in line.
10:23pm Eastern. Ok, we’re at our last commercial break. It looks like they have saved immigration for last. While we wait, here are the vids of Fred’s made-for-YouTube one-liner moments from the first part of the debate via Hot Air:
Attacking Huckabee’s Dem coalition:
Meet the virgins:
10:19pm Eastern. Huckabee defends his faith, comments on marriage/wife. Gets strong applause from SC crowd. “Marriage is an important institution. It teaches us how to love.” Strong applause from the audience.
Cameron on Paul. “Electability: Do you have any?” Laughter. He appeals to fiscal conservatism to fend off attacks that he less Republican than other candidates. Applause.
10:15pm Eastern. Rudy is asked about 9/11 and what makes him equipped to fight the war on terror, but he answers by saying Democrats will take change out of our pockets. Goes back to reciting his resume. Same stuff from the weekend. Here we go with the Saudi prince line. Did you know that he returned the money? Naww. Hadn’t heard that before.
He’s like the Bill Richardson of the GOP field.
Am I the only one not listening to Rudy anymore?
10:08pm Eastern. Back from the break, Romney’s giving his Obama change speech. Change. Broken Washington. Change. Change. Change. Zzzzzzz.
McCain’s turn to repeat his surge speech, the same change speech he gave during the weekend debate. Can someone please stop the talking points? We heard all of this four/five days ago.
Thompson goes after Huckabee again…this time on his tax record. I ask again: Will Fred go after McCain?
10:04pm Eastern. It’s halftime. The Fredheads will be going wild, with good reason. He woke up tonight. But is it too little, too late? And will it be enough to move South Carolina voters? Thompson’s focusing his sights on Huckabee. But what about McCain. We haven’t touched immigration yet. Will Fred go after McCain?
***
Scroll down for updates from first half of the debate..the debate got off to a slow start, but it’s hopping now…Fred’s seizing the moment, Romney and Giuliani have been non-entities so far…Brit Hume handed Ron Paul his head…the campaigns’ joke-writers worked overtime–it’s the battle of the one-liners…
***
START OF THE DEBATE.
9:00pm. I’m starting a new thread. We’ll see if any of our questions get asked. The debate is livestreaming at FoxNews.com. Got your popcorn? Red Bull? Here we go…
9:02pm. I think this is the first time I’ve ever seen the National Anthem performed at one of these things. Nice!
Introductions of the candidates. Is it just me or does the debate set-up make it look like they’re all going to play Jeopardy?
The bell will ding if they go over time. The bell sounds like it’s from Quiz Show!
First topic: The economy. Chris Wallace is doing the questioning. Are we headed for a recession?
Romney: Maybe we are, maybe we aren’t. Cites Mass. record, economic turnaround.
Oh, no. His first proposal: “Stop the housing crisis.”
Wallace, please follow up!!!! Is he for Bush/Hillarycare for housing or not? If not, what the heck does he mean.
NO FOLLOW-UP.
Wallace throws it to McCain. McCain wants “straight talk.” He’s dissing Mitt’s Mass. jobs record. McCain thinks it’s the federal government’s job to retrain people who’ve been laid off.
This is Clintonspeak.
McCain gives some stump talking points about the need to control spending and reduce foreign oil dependency. “Education and training” is important. No more earmarks. “I’m called the Sheriff…I didn’t win Miss Congeniality.”
Wallace goes to Huckabee, cites his ad on the economy. Do you want an economic stimulus package?
Huckabee cites recession-creating factors: Fuel prices, subprime mortages. There’s culpability on both lender and borrowers… “I commend the president.” Says Bush approach doesn’t involve tax dollars.
Bull.
Huckabee sounds a lot softer than he did a few weeks ago:
In an interview on Fox News recently, you said that the government should not be bailing out people whose mortgages are about to reset to interest rates that they can’t afford. Foreclosures are at record rates right now. Wouldn’t doing nothing — as millions of Americans risk losing their homes — smack of Herbert Hoover deferring to the market as 25 percent of Americans were unemployed in the Depression?
Not at all. What you have is a situation where you have culpability on the part of the lenders and the borrowers. The fact is you need to encourage the lenders to try to work with those who have borrowed to keep from foreclosure because ultimately nobody wins. The banks don’t need an enormous inventory of property on their hands that they can’t move any more than the market can. The lender doesn’t need to be in default and ultimately bankruptcy and out of a home.
But what we don’t need is a government bailout. That is not the purpose of government, to prop people up from every poor decision they make. In fact, when you do that … whether it’s in the world of finance or the world of drug addiction … it creates an enabling codependency. It’s the last thing that really helps people.
Is there some way to bring some resolve to it? Yes. But it needs to be handled by the … people who made the mistake in the first place: overambitious borrowers and greedy lenders, who saw a way to suck people into interest rates that they should have known they couldn’t afford in the long term.
Ron Paul speaks. We’re in a recession because of…the Austrian theory of the business cycle. “The housing market is in a depression.” Lower interest rates? That’s the problem. That allows the inevitable recession to come. Don’t pretend that artificial stimulus is going to help.
Well, miracle of miracles, he didn’t mention the military-industrial complex.
Fred gets a turn. What a great opportunity he has to attack the Bush/Hillarycare approach to the housing crisis…
…never mind. HE WANTS A FISCAL STIMULUS. “It needs to be considered somewhere down the line.”
That’s the end of the economic discussion.
Geez, that was unsatisfying.
Carl Cameron goes to Huckabee on the survival of a Reagan coalition. Huckbee is giving a stump speech. He appeals to social cons and then does his economic populist thing–appealing to single moms.
McCain: The Reagan principles…we’ve gone away from…we came to power to change government and government changed us….cites Bridge to Nowhere…
Dan Riehl points out a new jobs entitlement that McCain’s been apparently pimping.
Romney gets an abortion question. He deflects and answers the Reagan coalition question. Another stump speech.
Someone needs to start interrupting them and throw them off their talking points.
Romney’s droning on. “Strengthen the economy. I’ll make sure they come to Amerca.”
Stop, stop, stop, stop, stop!
FINALLY!!!!
***9:26pm Fred interrupts.***
He wants to address the Reagan revolution. “This is a battle for the heart and soul of the Republican Party.” Fred’ attacks Huckabee. He would be a Christian leader, but he would also be a liberal economic populist, gets NEA endorsement, would close Gitmo, ban smoking.
YES, YES, YES, YES!!
Fred: “That’s not the model of the Reagan revolution. That’s the model of the Democrat party.”
Crowd erupts in appaluse.
Huckabee answers. Sticks to defending Arkansas record. Some applause.
Giuliani gets a question. Cameron asks him to state why he’s a complete conservative “without quoting George Will.” Heh. Giuliani talks about working for Reagan, peace through strength.
Zzzzzzzzzz.
9:31pm Eastern. Cameron goes to Paul on the Truthers. Are you prepared to embrace that rhetoric or abandon it?
I can’t tell them what to do, but I’ve abandoned it.
Cameron: Would you ask them to cease it? I don’t endorse what they say.
Could I please participate in the current debate? Wants to address whether we’ve lost our way.
9:33pm Eastern. Commercial break.
9:36pm Eastern. We’re back. Brit Hume asks Huckabee if US officers responded correctly in the Strait of Hormuz incident. Huck: “Prepare to face the gates of Hell.” Applause.
***Fred’s turn.*** He pulls out a one-liner that gets applause: “I think one more step and they would have been introduced to those virgins they’re looking forward to seeing.” Applause.
I think someone gave Fred a Red Bull. This is the liveliest I’ve ever seen him at one of these debates.
Well, it is do or die time. I’d say he’s doing.
And I’d say Rudy’s dying. He’s talking, but without any pep. More careful now than with conviction. He does make a good point about the NIE and Iran’s perception of American weakness.
Brit asks McCain what he would have done if he were captain. McCain talks about history, freedom of the seas, praises Navy’s professionalism.
***Ron Paul complains about “rush to judgement” and waves the “Bush-as-war-mongerer” flag. Moonbats will be partially assuaged after getting
Brit points out that all the candidates all supported the commander’s decision to be passive. What are you reacting to?
Audience is laughing at Ron Paul.***
Romney – Paul shouldn’t be reading so many of Ahmadenijad’s press releases. (Mix of applause and boos).
9:48pm Eastern. McCain champions the surge on the anniversary of its introduction. Rudy goes after McCain, asserting that he supported the surge, too. Sorry, but Rudy is really a non-entity.
Paul gives his “blowback” speech.
McCain responds, tries to shoehorn in a packaged one-liner. “I’m not interested in trading with al Qaeda, the only thing they trade is burkas. I’m not interested in traveling with them. They only use one-way tickets.”
Thompson’s one-liner on Iraq: “You know it’s good news coming out of Iraq because you read so little about it in the NYTimes.” Talks Pakistan.
Romney talks about Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, and Iran, but “we need to think more broadly…move moderate Islam to greater strength…ultimately, move the world of Islam so Muslims themselves reject the extreme.”
10:00pm Eastern. Huckabee challenges Paul, gives a strong defense of Israel. Annihilation of Israel, which is what our enemies want, “would not happen under my presidency.”
Appaluse.
Paul: “We treat Israel as a stepchild, undermine their sovereignty.” Why do we arm their enemies? No reason for not treating Israel in an adult fashion. “Besides, we don’t have any money to do this.”
Giuliani chimes in: Idea that it’s treated as a stepchild is absurd. Repeats Huckabee.
Thompson goes after Huckabee on Pakistan. “Our supporting of their military is a good thing.” Hmmm.
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Unclemonkey, you can trust the Luntz loser – Ron Paul-Nut.
It’s unanimous, Paul is the loo hoo ser er
Many of the poll participants Luntz has act like they’re responding more to entertainment value than substance. That’s a tad unnerving.
I texted R6! Anybody else participate in the fox text poll?
Ron Paul is not the loser tonight.
Ron Paul is a loser every night.
All I care about is 1st. That was Fred.
Why can’t they do it on the website? Texting costs me money.
Not all victims are innocent bystanders some are criminals that had acts of criminalty thrust upon them.
Fred rocked. He’s got my vote.
I wish Fred would point out that all this talk about how “we have the fence” is a bunch of happy talk baloney. Didn’t Hutchinson just make sure the fence mandate was now discretionary to Homeland Security? Why doesn’t someone bring that up?
Have to agree with you again Cat; but that’s not exactly surprising unfortunately.
My bad, unclemonkey!
Great performance by Fred tonight! Focus group overwhelmingly in favor of him.
Go Fred!
I can’t stand Alan Colmes! I don’t think he ever says anything that doesn’t come straight from the DNC talking points!
Ya I hear ya, I had to get ulimited texts due to friends that live by texting.
McAmnesty is a mind reader now…we’ll work with the illegals after the boarder is closed. Bull$hit…just my IMHO
The candidates keep referring to certain (specific) special interest groups that they represent. Thompson refers to America and it’s foundation that need to be preserved. He will come through.
I am an evangelical and I will NEVER vote for the Huckster. I will also not vote for McCaine. I would rather sit it out in 2008 if either of these guys is our nominee. Why do so many Christians (I am sorry if I offend my brethren) fall for someone just cause they can quote the Bible? Look at his fruit: 1) misplaced compassion for the criminals, not the victims; 2) misplaced compassion for the illegals, not legal immigrants and citizens whose wages have plummeted cause of illegals; 3) raising taxes for social programs and big government (the Bible leaves good works to us, as Christians, not government. it also says, those who do not work, should not eat (St. Paul)- i.e., no welfare, etc., and Huckster sounds like a goverment services type of guy). No way to him or McCaine. I will hold my breath with Rudy, since he is a bit more bearable, but never these 2. I like Mitt. I believe his change on abortion. I have chaned my position too, I used to be pro-choice, now I am vehimently against it. So, his change does not bother me, I APPLAUD IT!!!!! More people should since that is what we want, changed hearts on this issue. I love Fred also.
key moment for me was after the attack on Huck the Schmuck, and they started to break for commercial Romney walked over to Thompson and shook his hand.
My dream ticket is Romney/Thompson. I think that there will be an alliance one way or the other. I think it will be on fire and a great alliance. That is my dream ticket.
Thompson clearly won tonight, which is good. I want him to take SC. Smoke it out from under Huck the Schmuck and The Saboteur/Maverick McCain. At that point the two liberals will be gone.
In 3 months, I wonder how similar the landscape will be, and how many of us will remember what happened tonight. Not saying it’s not important, it’s hugely important. Just a larger thought in the moment.
Navywife, exactly…he’s the main reason i no longer watch H&C…altho Hannity gets old very fast.
realimmigrant chick is right. i have been saying the same all along. Huckster’s fruit is rotten. he has plagerized the 9 point immigration plan from National Review. as well as lying about his record.
Well, Fred Thompson said he would do good tonight, and he did. A politician that keeps a promise. What a concept.
Go Fred
Me neither. He’s an annoying little educated idiot.
Same boat here … who the heck doesn’t have internet voting? Probably Alan’s decision
Uhangtight…I’ll hangloose. Thompson/Romney:)
“He [Fred] doesn’t have the intestinal fortitude to go after John McCain”
Don’t you mean testicular fortitude, or are you just being polite?
I hate it when McCain says about immigration, “what we have now is “de facto” amnesty”. No it isn’t John..what you want is actual amnesty, what we have now is a bunch of wimps beholden to special interest who refuse to do what 80% of America wants done. Even if you do call what we have now de facto amnesty, it beats the heck out of your solution, which is real amnesty.
RealImmigrantChick
Sometimes I think people want to hope so bad, that they don’t see the forest through the trees.
Mr_Conservative_Cat In three months we will be filing our taxes and complaing about thouse that will want to rasie our taxes.
Goodnight/
RealImmigrantChick
I have to agree with you across the board, especially from a strictly christian perspective. So much quoting, out of context. I also find it offensive that Romney and Huck have gone past using their religion as a footnote of their character in their political world, and appear to be using it as a sales tool. Inappropriate and nearing offensive, in my mind.
Right on gemini #203. I hope he keeps up the effort, as the others are all way too weak, phony and flip-floppy.
Over at HotAir, this is the consensus:
1 Thompson
2 Romney
3 Giuliani
4 Mccain
5 Huckabee
6 Paul
#222
I don’t know much about him, besides that his wife is the sister of conservative Monica Crowley. As far as being educated, I think just reading press releases from Move.on or the DNC shouldn’t count.
I’m sure he’s probably a nice person, but his political views suck.
Correction: #204 gemini.
Jacob,
That’s true.
Fred NUKED everybody
Amazing — in the follow-up McCain shows even more than he does not get it at all about illegal immigration. He is about 3° off from being 100% wrong about what 80% of the people want. How hard does one have to work to ignore the people to the point that one would misunderstand to that extent what a huge majority wants.
navywife and rightisright:
alan colmes has his staff speaking into his ear so that he cannot hear the individual he has asked the question to and starts trying to get out the next question posed via the sound in his ear before it is time. that is obvious. as i have watched H&C a long time and he used to stumble over words not be able to come up with any questions and stammer. now he does not stammer (but still a moron) but has someone else feeding what to say in his ear. that is what i see. IMHO.
Signing off. Night all.
I think Fred Thompson was great tonight. He certainly had the best answer for illegal immigration, IMO.
I am at a loss to understand how anyone can support Huckabee. He makes my skin crawl.
Things are going to change between now and the FL primaries when I vote. I’m still very undecided.
night CAT
AllRightyThen! Fred finally wins a debate, Ron whatizzname loses again miserably, and all we now need is for Fred to win a state. Here’s hoping that he keeps up the good, hard work.
Is there a place on the net to go vote…I bet Ron Paul is leading big time if there is. His nuts are voting their little hearts out.
Jacob, agree with your votes above.
I want to know if Huckster’s stats are straight about his Arkansas leadership.
McCain makes me cranky; but I know his military service will appeal to many and there will be amnesia by some about amnesty—which makes me furious.
Rudy seems one dimensional in the debates.
Ron Paul, well, hope that’s it. I cannot follow his rants. I think he may have come from another orbit. Perhaps he was on the UFO Kucinich saw…
Liked (obviously) the people’s comments about Fred. Loved his comments and his going after the Huckster.
As much as I hate it when Reagan is invoked constantly in this race, the person who reminds me the most of Reagan’s is Romney. I think he would kick Obama or Hillary off the stage in any debate.
Continued prayer for the right man to emerge with the delegates…
uhangtight
Kudos to you for being able to listen to him and look at him that long. He’s too whiny for me. He reminds me of a little kid with his fingers in his ears, unwilling to listen to what anyone else has to say.
Heading off to bed too(actually heading off to learn a Talking Heads song). I’m glad I finally got off my lazy butt and took part in on of these. Maybe I’ll actually start commenting more now. And maybe I won’t make too much of a fool out of myself(but that’s probably too much to hope for).
I agree!
‘night unclemonkey
On January 10th, 2008 at 10:54 pm, Lindsay said:
Rudy seems one dimensional
in the debates.Fred’s up next
Every dog has its day.. let’s hope that’s not the case for Fred.
..but for Hillary.. if it barks like a dog..
And once again, I’m shocked, SHOCKED the Paul-Nuts are spamming the text poll.
“Every dog has its day.. let’s hope that’s not the case for Fred.” – meaning that I hope he continues like he did tonight.. just thought I’d better clarify that.
tell ‘em Fred!
Ron Paul with 35% of the FNC poll? You gotta be kidding me.
Left wingers are probably tilting the vote. Oh well. More to the case that you shouldn’t put faith in polls.
oh, poor Alan. You can’t handle the truth.
Ron who?
The Paul Bots are at it again
Amen to that, nyc123.
Thanks Navywife, but I had to come back when I saw those poll results. Do those people really believe that they’re accomplishing anything by spamming every poll they can get their hands on? Do they really think he can win? Can anyone be that delusional? Rhetorical questions all. I already know the answers.
Delusional is thinking we have the military industrial machine or whatever the loon calls it. Birds of a feather…
Holy mackerel! It seems everybody wants a father figure with the right kind of voice to continue on our current US course. Love the military and blowing stuff up? What’s the steady state? Is it peace which is achieved only after killing everybody that disagrees with us? Is it amassing more weapons than they have? Well, if that’s the case, North Dakota alone has over 500 Minuteman III missiles each tipped with a 300+ kiloton warhead, some with multiples. In this one state we possess enough destructive power to obliterate all life on this planet. And we view ourselves as peaceful? Think about it.
If anyone’s still watching Fox, was that Paul Krugman that Huckabee was just getting chummy with just before the break?
This will fall on deaf ears, but it would be more effective to characterize Huckabee’s supporters as they have traditionally been called ‘Social Conservatives’ rather than ‘evangelical’.
He is not supported by ‘evangelicals’, he is supported by social conservatives. There is no such thing as a group of ‘evangelicals’. There are Christians, there is a subset of Protestant Christians and Catholic Christians. Both Protestant and Catholics are ‘evangelical’ if they believe the Bible.
And the social conservatives will as likely vote for Thompson as Huckabee. Being ‘evangelical’ doesn’t have as much to do with it as the positions they support.
I think RP has a group of Paulies who are flooding the poll. It means nothing. Nada (as McShamnesty would say).
Fred could kick Obama or Hillary off the stage in a debate as well. He nearly patted Colmes off the stage just now after scorching him. Good man, that Fred.
By the Florida vote I hope I will decide which of the dream team I will vote for: Fred or Mitt. I hope they both are still in the race. I don’t really have a third choice at all…
‘Night.
Meat,
We are defending our right to freedom. And if that means taking the fight to the backyards of those who are trying to take that from us, then so be it. Better their backyard, than ours. Peace through power works.
I also have been dreaming of a Thompson/Romney or visa versa ticket. Good night everyone!
Good thing they let Ron Paul in on this debate and didn’t waste the space with Duncan Hunter. Whew!
/sarc
Who in their right mind would vote for some deaf idiot who thinks we bring everything on ourselves? I am so P*SSED right now!
Hunter ‘08!!
Huckabee’s running first in Alabama? Please say it ain’t so!!! I’ve defended my home against spurious attacks for years, but if that’s true I may lose faith myself.
Yeah, Hunter would have been a better placement instead of Rupaul.
I’ve had my fill.
Goodnight, all!
I am about sick to death of these geeks skewing these polls. In two years, I sent about 3 text messages. The third one was the one I just sent to Fox, voting for Fred. Why don’t you join me?
Ron gets 35% vote in the debates and 3% in the polls. Who is fooling who?
Why vote in polls at all? They’re almost always inaccurate, and unreliable.
A few facts on Rudy Giuliani.
In the 1960’s and early 1970’s, Rudy Giulaini was pretty far left in his politics. In fact. he voted for George McGovern in 1972.
He only changed his registration form Democrat to independent in 1975, when he got a job in Gerald Fords administration arranged by his mentor, judge Lloyd MacMahon.
He remained an independent for the next few years. In December 1980, one month after Reagan was elected in a landslide, Giuliani changed his registration from independent to Republican. A few months later he was appointed to a job in the Reagan justice dept, again based on judge MacMahons recommendation. He remained in this job foe two years before being appointed US Attorney for the Southern District of New York.
His next political appearance was when he ran for mayor of NY in 1988. He was defeated that year but four years later defeated Dinkens.
His time as Mayor of New York was not a happy one for conservatives. In 1994 he campaigned alongside Bill and Hillary Clinton to help them pass a crime bill which included an an”assault weapons” ban, one opposed by the GOP Congress.
He also endorsed Democrat Mario Cuomo over Republican George Pataki, on the grounds that Pataki might cut taxes.
In his first term as mayor he opposed school choice, a position he reversed in his second term.
He opposed the landmark welfare reform bill passed by the GOP Congress in 1996.
He also opposed the immigration reform act passed in the same year, feeling it was too harsh on both legal and illegal immigrants.
He opposed the line item veto, one of the key provisions of the Contract With America, because it threatened pork for NYC. Bill Clinton was threatening to cut Federal spending to New York, so Giulaini took him to court and was successful in getting the line item veto thrown out.
Later in his time in office, Giuliani filed a lawsuit against the Clinton administration to try to get thrown out a Federal requirement that local official must cooperate with Federal immigration officers. This suit was unsuccessful, but he made a minor tweak in NYC practice and continued with the sanctuary city practice.
Having opposed tougher Federal immigration enforcement, he was later to assert that the only reason he was lax on illegal immigrants was because the Feds were not doing their jobs.
He finished his time as mayor by opposing a tax cutting bill the GOP House was trying to pass in 20o0.
In many respects Giuliani, during his time as mayor, was somewhat to the left of Bill Clinton.
Some notable quotes;
Going after McCain is (and has always been) a mixed bag. People may react adversely given his war record.
It’s a bit like a male going after Billary, a woman. It’s not fair but that’s the way it is.
262: I think you’re referring to Eisenhower.
Makes me want to barf – does McCain have 19,999,999 more tear jerkers to jusytify letting 20 million invaders win?
If we have to have a liberal screw things up for four years I want it to be squarely blamed on the democraps, hence since there isn’t a heck of a lot of difference between mcCain and Clinton, might as well let her get the blame.
#268 On January 10th, 2008 at 11:12 pm, JConrad999 said:
”
Meat,
We are defending our right to freedom. And if that means taking the fight to the backyards of those who are trying to take that from us, then so be it. Better their backyard, than ours. Peace through power works.”
Agreed.
Hahaha. Rawmoney was wooden! The 250 million dollar mannequin: Groomed to wear the presidential seal, but exhibiting a very wood-like appeal. Personally, I don’t want another monied elitist in the position. God only knows we already have way too many of these greasy swine shuffling around our nation’s capital.
#279 that was good!
#265 but evangelical has a muck better shrillness to it, thus why the media loves to bandy it about so freely!
However incorrect the label, the media will use their chosen group/type/moniker and wield it like a cudgel to beat us into attention so that we may become inflamed and watch their crappy advertisements for soap, stinky cologne, foreign made care, domestic trucks and the occasional public service message from BIG OIL.
The stereotype “evangelical” is a certain subset of protestant Christianity. That’s who the media is talking about, but (not being one of them), I’m not sure Huck has a lock on that vote…
And what’s with this foreign policy stuff? Heck, who cares about foreign policy when we’ve got raft loads of problems to solve right here at home? If you want a foreign policy expert, hire one. Henry Ford didn’t have to know everything about how to make a car. He hired the engineers, designers and assemblymen. Everyone should get over their stereotype ideals of what a president is supposed to look like, act like or say. It’s the unassuming types that become leaders. Sort of reminds of a character named Jesus.
Most ironic line of the night:
John McCain commenting on border security …
Huh? Makes sense to me. It’s annoying that nobody called him on this.