Hey, NYT: 99.98 percent of all discharged Iraq and Afghanistan vets have not committed or been charged with homicide.
John J. Dilulio Jr. busts the NYT’s wacko-vet myth, which the paper peddled in a Sunday story purporting to show that a disproportionate number of veterans were committing homicide. Writes Dilulio:
The Times “found 121 cases in which veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan committed a killing in this country, or were charged with one, after their return from war.” All but one case involved male veterans. They speculated that their research “most likely uncovered only the minimum number of such cases, given that not all killings” were “reported publicly or in detail,” and because “it was often not possible to determine the deployment history of other service members arrested on homicide charges.”
…The Veterans of Foreign Wars (VFW) and other veterans’ advocacy groups are absolutely correct that not merely “many” but the vast majority of veterans not only remain completely law-abiding but go on to lead stable and productive personal, professional, and civic lives. Assuming 121 homicide cases in relation to 749,932 total discharges through 2007, 99.98 percent of all discharged Iraq and Afghanistan veterans have not committed or been charged with homicide.
And assuming 121 cases and 749,932 total discharges, the homicide offending rate for the discharged veterans would be 16.1 per 100,000. The U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) has demographic data aplenty on homicide offending rates. For instance, in 2005, for white males aged 18-24, the rate was about 20 per 100,000. The Times opined that 121 was the “minimum” number, even as it counted veterans charged but not convicted with veterans tried and found guilty. Doubling the number to 242 would double the rate to 32.2 per 100,000.
Such crude but contextualizing calculations aside, the right question to ask is whether the veterans, other things being equal (controlling for age, race, gender,
education, income, prior criminal history, and other variables), offend at rates that are significantly different from otherwise comparable groups (including groups that have an extreme PTSD incidence). Without doing the relevant statistical (multiple-regression) analyses with all the requisite empirical data, it is impossible to say.
But that wouldn’t fit the standard NYT narrative, would it?
***
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Now there is a headline…
These people truly have no shame.
Does the NYT even know what a fact is? Or they working off the Bill Clinton dictionary.
Fact: Twisting word’s until it meet’s your need’s to degrade, demoralize and destroy your opponent, even at the cost of your integrity.
Well the NYT certainly meet’s Bill’s definition.
Sure, the NYT knows what facts are. They value the truth so highly, they use it very sparingly.
More evidence that the MSM (main street media) relies on bad science as much as shoddy reporters to project their opinions as fact.
I don’t know all the numbers, but there have to have been more crimes/homicides committed by illegals than by discharged soldiers. I’ll be looking for that headline…
The New York Times being the paper of record has made me glad that I switched to CD’s long ago.
Historically the number of murders that the NYT has covered up (think Duranty) has been well above the number of enemies killed by our military in all of our wars.
Don’t look for a pro-military/hero story in the bottom of my birdcage – it just don’t happen.
One has to ask oneself: “What is their true purpose for this story?” Then ask: “Why should I continue my subscription?”
What I liked recently is that not everyone likes the NY Slimes. Here in Baker County Florida, a Starbucks just opened up. Inside the door was a NY Slimes news stand. What was it filled with that morning? The Florida Times-Union and the Baker County Standard, the two newspapers who carry my not-yet-award-winning, not-yet-syndicated column.
Perhaps 99.98 percent of rural Floridians have not committed themselves to the NY Slimes. So there.
I saw this reported on fox. I also saw the, or heard the counter to it wirth the real compared stats. This was a total spin by the NYT to try and give the military a bad rep. I am fuming at this. 25% of these so called murders were traffic accidents. Another fact that times left out.
When compared overall to national stats the military comes through shinning as always.
More proof that the left does not support the troops.
There are lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Now we know the NYT and their minions in the rest of the MSM aren’t afraid to employ any of those in order to further their agenda.
The MSM hates our armed forces because they epitomize everything the MSM and liberalism rails against – hard work, self-sacrifice, a love of country, a sense of duty and personal responsibility. Liberals hate it that men and women can engage in such patriotic work and do everything to undermine those who shunned the entitlement mentality for the sake of something better.
OK, so 99.98% of Iraq/Afghanistan vets (which translates to 4,999 out of 5,000 veterans) have been not been charged with a homocide.
THIS IS GOOD???? Does it matter if it was as a result of a traffic fatality or PTSD??
Anyone have a stat on how many illegal aliens have been so charged?
Guys, don’t misunderstand me. I’m not saying illegal aliens are good and veterans are bad. I’m saying capital crimes are bad. 99.98% is too low. That number needs to be 100%. Our vets deserve that!
NYT=Pravda West!
I’ll put my money on our troops every time. These stats prove nothing except the homicide rate is less than that of the general population. And, give the FACT that about 85% of homicide victims know their murderer, it comes as no surprise to this old cop and combat veteran.
The NYT management has no shame. They are vile, biased traitors who will give away secrets to our enemies just to make them feel better.
I don’t buy any newspapers
First saw this over at Free Republic last night and the wife and I were less than impressed. Both of us being misrepresented and characterized by the former paper of record as mad dog killers did not resonate well with us since we are both veterans. I really dislike their junk science applied to a very small community of Americans that have been trained to be more self reliant, restrained, and disciplined then the population at large. It appears we are able to control our urge to do violence to someone at almost 7 times the rate of the population of this country. Military training really is good because living through the BS one has to put up with in the service you learn to control the urge to strangle the living *#@* out of someone desperately in need of it.
If the New York Slimes (or several other MSM outlets for that matter) said the sky is blue and the grass is green, I’d go outside and check it out for myself.
Our troupes are in a WAR for crying out loud!!!! I would love to know where else in this country there is a crime rate that low and certainly without the conditions these people have to endure.
Here’s an interesting question…does the Slimes have staff with a 99.98% pure criminal record? I would bet a fortune on our troupes vrs. the Treason Slimes. Any takers?
The way these people perform their numerical analysis makes me wish they’d been my Stats instructor.
I’ve have done really well, considering you can basicly make up numbers…
What biased media???
It was once said that a democracy can not exist where there is an uninformed electorate. I propose that a MISINFORMED electorate is just as dangerous. Our biased media members need to be brought up on charges of treason and shot.
Now lets look at the Senator(s) McCain-Hutchison invader numbers – bet they are higher per thousand.
“Stupid is as stupid does…”
Forrest Gump
Hmmm… my story doesn’t work very well with real numbers, so maybe if I double them. Yeah! That’s the ticket!!
What garbage.
How many people still read that garbage – the NYT?
Denigrating our military is the #1 priority of moonbatty liberals (redundant, right?) everywhere… And their leader Georgy Porgy is the frontrunner once more. If they put this much energy into actually supporting our troops, they wouldn’t have to spend so much time, going out of their way to prove that they do support the troops… just not the war. Well, these two articles prove otherwise.
Those who cherish the US Armed Forces will not be thwarted. And your attempts at testing my fidelity to the military is insulting. My love for the military doesn’t die, it multiplies.
Does the Times want to go out of business?With the continued obvious bias,it is already in the crapper,but still printing blatant lies.Liberal logic,I guess.
Stuck on stupid.
*Because nobody else said it.*
It’s a case of aggressive innumeracy at the NYT. These people resent the fact that someone would require them to do the math… they have a story to write, dammit, and getting their “truth” out is much more important than anything else to them….
Here’s an interesting article by Mac Johnson regarding murder rates of illegal aliens. Granted, he too uses some “fuzzy math” — but that’s because the true statistics are not available. Even with his very conservative (and admittedly low) estimates, the outcome is disturbing. But don’t hold your breath waiting for the MSM to report this!
The NYT is a complete joke of a paper.
It has become the World Weekly News of journalism. Any day now I expect to walk by the news stand a see BAT BOY on the cover.
I’ll stick with the Washington Times and HotAir.
The NY Times contention that the war in Iraq has made US soldiers into animals is not a surprise, given the author of the Times advocacy piece. It is Deborah Sontag, one of the most leftwing reporters at the Times. She previously convered the West Bank for the Times, where her reportage made al-Jazeera look fair in comparison. Back in September, 2000, Sontag wrote an article stating that an “Israeli military spokesman” had confirmed that Israeli soldiers had killed an innocent Palestinian. One problem with Sontag’s reportage: There was no “Israeli military spokesman”. The alleged admission was pure hogwash. You would have thought that Sontag would fess up and issue a correction. Instead, there was only obfuscation and a claim by Sontag that while there was no confirmation by “an Israeli military spokesman”, some Israeli officials had confessed to her “off the record” and therefore Sontag and the Times need not fess up to bad reportage. So when you have a reporter with this kind of leftwing ideological agenda, don’t be surprised by what we get.
As a Viet Vet, I’ve watched the MSM smear the military without shame or facts, and without anyone to caring to call them on it. So, this is just the same old thing!!!
My first thought on seeing that story (complete with pictures) was “what about the invaders from the south?!?”… Must be some reason why our prisons are filled with them!!! Funny thing… No stories (complete with pictures) from the MSM on that issue! Wonder why?
Every damned crime story on the local news has a hispanic name along with it! Especially, the murders.!!! The lone exception being the black guy that killed his white landlord by stabbing him and then running over him… Not a “hate crime” oh no, no, no… banish the thought.
We have a guy here in Denver that tied his girfriend to the back of his pickup and drug her to death… both were illegals. The local MSM is trying to make the case that the “poor guy” should be shown pity, because he might not be very smart…. Un-effing-believable!!
Or the gangsta wannbe hispanic family that had a few real gangstas call their bluff. Their eleven year old got caught in the cross fire and was killed. The local MSM of course, is going out of their way to try to paint the gangsta wannabes as just good folks having fun.
It goes on, and on, and on. Rapes, murders, child molestations, etc.The local MSM has tried the tactic of not mentioning the “race” of a murderer on their reports. Unless of course, the perp is “white”. That back fires on them too, because it’s so blatantly obvious they’re trying to cover up the fact that a very large percentage of violent crime in Colorado is committed by illegal aliens.
New York Times Exclusive
BAT BOY WATERBOARDED AT GITMO!
The NYT is the black hole of nihilism.
Every war has its casualties, physical and psychological, but the Left exploits it for their own acidic agenda. They use body counts and the injuries suffered by returning war veterans as a means for malicious intent. They neither care about the troops nor the noble sacrifice in protecting Western civilization from Islam’s envisioned world Caliphate.
The NYT editor covers his ass by using words like “some,” and “most likely”. This gives the appearance of an accusation without “really” accusing. God, I hate that rag. Between their front-page printing of national secrets, slander against American troops, and blatant hatred of this country, you could swear its being published in Iran.
I think the NYT missed another excellent opportunity here. If 99.98% of discharged veterans weren’t charged with homicide, I’m sure the number of those who reenlisted would be much lower and more embarrassing, since the military would want to keep the real psychopaths on active duty. Keep your eyes peeled for an update.
/sarc off
And how many were self defense? I’d actually really like to know, becuase I get the feeling that the actual number of confirmed(that’s convicted not just charged, since the NYT doesn’t know the difference) “murders” would be amazingly low, statistically.
This is a conversation that took place during the Vietnam War.
WOW! Ladies and Gentlemen…Your New York Times!!!
I plan on committing a number of killings when I get home:
1st, I plan on killing time relaxing on my deck that I raced to finish building before I shipped out.
2nd, I plan on killing a big Venison steak, grilled on the BBQ atop the deck I raced to finish building before I shipped out.
3rd, I plan on killing at LEAST one ice cold bottled six-pack of luscious Coors beer, while eating a big Venison steak, grilled on the BBQ atop the deck I raced to finish building before I shipped out.
4th, I plan on killing more than a few hours making love to my wonderful wife……..
NO! Inside the house! What? You think I’m crazy?
Hey NY Times, Pinch this!!
Army, may it be as you have said.
Stay safe!
In many ways the first story in the article about Matthew Sepi undercuts the NYT thesis.
The proper spin on the story is that the Army training Matthew received helped him defend himself against two gangbangers in a dark alley in Las Vegas. When attacked, he responded instinctively, killing one punk and wounding the other.
The punks picked the wrong victim.
Of course, that night, Matthew had a lot of problems. He was self-treating his PTSD with alcohol. He was paranoid, so he walked to the neighborhood 7-11 with a loaded AK-47 under his trench coat, but he was prudent to do so because he lived in a very dangerous Las Vegas neighborhood. He had a load bearing vest at home with 6 clips and 180 rounds of ammunition.
The incident was self defense in a dark alley, not murder.
Shame on the NYT for perverting Matthew’s story into an indictment of training that our Soldiers receive. Shame on the NYT for insinuating that Matthew committed murder rather than being an ordinary citizen who defended himself in a dark alley against two gangbangers.
For what it is worth, you can send your reasoned comments and criticisms of this story to Clark Hoyt, the NYT Public Editor, at public@nytimes.com
Oh! That was a good one, Tiger. ROFLMAO
Unclemonkey has hit the nail on the head – charged does not always equate to convictions. I would like to see the number of convictions. Self-defense can play a huge role in things, along with other mitigating circumstances.
The moral of the story with Mr. Serpi, if you are a thug gang member and are choosing someone to jump, don’t pick a highly-trained combat veteran to attack. You might get more than you bargained for.
How many New York Times journalists are guilty of inventing stories? Jason Blair, for one. Let’s tally the number up and see what the ratio of lying New York Times journalists is, then present our conclusions.
How many NYT journalists have covered up a genocide, like Walter Duranty covered up the 14 million starved to death in the Soviet-made Ukrainian famine? The Pulitzer he won for that Communist propaganda still sits in the NY Times building, the Times still proud of Duranty’s “reporting.”
Let’s tally up the malpractice of NYT journalists and make the obvious conclusions.
“There are three types of lies – lies, damn lies, and statistics.” Mark Twain.
No truer words spoken, and the NYPravda has gone out of its way (along with the Lancet) to prove its veracity.
As I tell my students: if you have to use statistics to prove that something is there or happening, it probably isn’t. (don’t tell that to most of my liberal scientist colleagues though!)
“Think about how stupid the average person is; now realize half of them are dumber than that.” – George Carlin
Now there is a statistic that accurately describes the “elite” readership of the NYPravda.