GOP Florida debate: Show us the conservatism; Update: Icky public displays of affection; Grade: Zzzzzzz
Update 11:25pm Eastern. In response to my Huckabee-McCain PDA Alerts, commenter BlameAmericaLast renames the Huckster: Suckupabee.
It fits.
Update 10:37pm Eastern. This debate is over. It never began. I give it a D for dull. Dud. Dumb. Droning. Devoid.
No, wait. A D is too generous.
I give it a Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
Romney scored in his answers on Iraq and defense of his campaign spending. And his quip on Billary: “I frankly can’t wait because the idea of Bill Clinton back in the White House with nothing to do is something I can’t imagine.”
Rudy lost because he failed to demonstrate the magnetic, head-turning charisma of a front-runner. He had the hang-dog, laid-back presence of a guy on his way out.
McCain managed not to snarl or curse at anyone. He won because he got away without having to answer a single question about immigration.
Huck left a puddle of drool at McCain’s feet.
Paul squeezed in his Down With Empire talking points.
Conservative voters in Florida are the big losers. This debate gave them nothing.
Video highlights, what little there were, are up at Hot Air.
Michael Graham wants his 90 minutes back. Seriously. I could have been crocheting.
Update 10:36pm Eastern. Ron Paul: “The Republican Party has a problem because we don’t act like Republicans.” I agree with what he’s saying…until he starts foaming at the mouth about empire.
Update 10:29pm Eastern. Williams quotes NYTimes attacks on Giuliani. Rudy attacks NYT credibility.
Rudy, 1. Williams, 0.
Audience applause.
I still don’t think he’s got enough mojo.
Williams brings up the NYT (again!) and its hit piece on Romney. Romney smiles: “I’m not going to Washington to make friends with politicians. I’m going to Wasington to change things.”
Romney defends himself against flip-flopping.
Williams cites LATimes saying McCain’s temper is an issue. “Do you see that as a problem?”
“I don’t.”
Laughter.
McCain stops answering the question to say nice things about Rudy.
It’s like a Swan Song for Rudy.
ALERT: MCCAIN/RUDY PUBLIC DISPLAY OF AFFECTION.
Huck gets question on religion: “It doesn’t give me a queasy feeling, it gives me a solid core.”
Update 10:27pm Eastern. Question for Huck about Chuck Norris attacking McCain’s age. I didn’t disagree with him because I was standing next to him (laughter).
RED ALERT: SECOND HUCK/MCCAIN PUBLIC DISPLAY OF AFFECTION.
Ick. Needs a PG-13 rating.
McCain: Now that Sylvester Stallone and Norman Schwarzkopf have endorsed me, I’ll send them to Chuck Norris.
Ho-ho-ho. Ha-ha-ha.
Blech.
Update 10:23pm Eastern. FINALLY. A St. Pete reader asks why Rudy is airing Spanish language ads when he says he supports English as an official language? Laughter. Yeah. Ditto that.
He says it’s “outreach” and changes subject to his immigration plan.
Grade for that answer: F.
Russert follows up with wet-foot/dry-foot Cuba policy. Why a special policy for Cuba? Rudy reviews history. Weird. He just made a grimace-y, weird face.
Update 10:19pm Eastern. We’re an hour and nineteen minutes into this debate and not a single immigration question.
Russert asks an entitlement question. Huck squeezes in an inheritance tax reform pitch directed at Romney’s sons. Whatever.
Update 10:11pm Eastern. Romney asked about how he would run against Billary. “I can’t wait. I think the idea of Bill Clinton in the White House with nothing to do” is something people won’t want. (Audience laughter.) “She is exactly what’s wrong with Washington. She’s been there too long. The last thing people need is sending the Clintons back to Washington.”
Easy question. Red meat.
Russert asks Romney how much of his own money he’s spent. We’ll report on Jan. 31 and not a minute earlier. Why not tell people how much own wealth? It’s competitive information. I’ve raised more than any other Republican in this race…not as much as Corzine, Forbes, Bloomberg. But I’ve made a substantial contribution. Couldn’t ask friends to contribute without contributing myself. Not beholden to special interests. Doesn’t owe anyone.
Effectively bats down accusation of “buying Florida.” He cares about the country, wants strong and vibrant nation.
Getting a lot of time to defend himself. “I’m giving it my all.”
Williams gets in a Mormon question. “I don’t think for a minute that people will say they won’t vote for a secular position based on candidate’s church.”
Romney’s being treated like the front-runner and he’s acting like it. Regained his confidence after that shaky Second Amendment answer. Extols individual freedom in America.
Update 10:09pm Eastern. Williams goes to McCain. Refers to statements his mom made on C-SPAN that the base will have to “hold its nose” and vote for McCain. I got the transcript on this earlier today and alerted Hot Air. Allah blogs the exchange with Roberta McCain here. Her exact quote: “Yes, I think holding their nose they’re going to have to take him.”
McCain refers to supporting conservative judges, says he’s proud to be conservative.
No mention of border security.
Update 10:07pm Eastern. Back from another commercial break. Brian Williams goes to Rudy on his abysmal campaign crack-up. Ouch. “This has always been a competitive race. I have the faith the Giants had last week. We’re going to come from behind, win from Florida, lull people into a false sense of security…” Notes Romney asking him a nice question.
Boy, what a dud. He doesn’t believe his own spin. How will anyone else?
Update 10:01pm Eastern. New topic – environment. Rudy is talking biofuels. McCain is talking cap and trade. See my prior comments about the enviro-nitwit-ization of the GOP.
You know what I said a few minutes ago about grabbing the popcorn? Never mind. That segment was a d-u-d. How could Romney not question McCain about immigration?
Update 9:53pm Eastern. Huck asks Romney about the Second Amendment and ban on assault weapons/Brady. The first frontal attack question. Was wondering if there would be one. Huck: “That’s not consistent…Do you support Brady? Do you support the assault weapons ban and restrictions you support?”
Romney: Says he would have signed it like the president said he would. Says he supports individual right to bear arms. Says he doesn’t support any new legislation.
Romney seemed tentative and nervous.
Rudy directs his question to Romney, too. But it’s really an attack on McCain. Romney mentions that McCain doesn’t support national catastrophic insurance fund as a backstop. Big parochial issue in Florida. McCain cracks: “Who’s answering this question?” Romney supports it. Looks like a Rudy-Romney pander tag team. States in high-risk areas should organize on national basis actuarially. So, I guess he does and he doesn’t support national catastrophic government fund. He’s talking about a “free-market solution.” Rudy wants to know if he supports a mandate. I’m not sure what he’s saying.
McCain gets to answer. “We have to address the issue. Regionally. Increase the risk pool. Reform insurance. The bill in the House was $200 billion, no way to pay for it.”
Update 9:40pm Eastern. Commercial break. Next portion will feature candidates asking each other questions. Get out the popcorn.
Here we go. Romney goes first. He raises the specter of China. “How will we have trade with China that protects America, on a level playing field?” Question goes to Rudy, though it’s really more of a question and answer session with himself. Sorry, I didn’t really pay attention to Rudy’s answer.
I was thinking about how Romney’s question/statement may have been a way to defend himself from a Huck attack on his ties to Bain Capital.(which Duncan Hunter alluded to and is the primary reason he opposes Romney)
Anyway…
McCain asks Huck about Fair Tax. How do you answer criticism that flat tax would cause more pain to low-income Americans…how do you account for resonance? Softball for sweethearts. “And when you’re done, Governor, could you also comment on how many Republicans would like to see you as my vice president…”
Kissy-kissy.
Huck: “We’re penalized for productivity in this country. Republicans ought to embrace the fair tax…”
Russert follows up: 93 percent sales tax. How does this help those paying 15 percent?
Update 9:34pm Eastern. Excellent Romney answer on Iraq. Strong, tough, focused on the surrendercrats. He takes on Dems for their withdrawalmania…cites debate in SC when Hillary refused to say she wanted to win and recycled Code Pink line.
Romney excoriates Dems and says “how dare they” take credit for surge.
Applause.
Romney just out-McCained McCain on the war.
Russert: Was the war a good idea and worth the blood and treasure?
McCain: It was worth it. Our men will return and return with honor, having fought al Qaeda over there.
Rudy: I’m for it when 6 out of 10 were for it and when 6 out of 10 were against it. Also very strong objecting to conducting war by polls.
Paul: It was a very bad idea and it wasn’t worth it. Falsely claims that al Qaeda wasn’t there and is now. Blames America for starting the war.
Huck: I supported the president when he went into this. He deserves our thanks, not scorn.
Update 9:27pm Eastern. We’re not breaking any new ground here. Romney’s repeating his “Washington is broken” line for the thousandth time. “Change has to begin with us. We are the party of change.”
Really? The Republicans are the Party of Change? When did that happen?
St Pete Times editor reads some question. First for McCain: How can we sustain Iraq with bad economy? McCain: If we do what Hillary wants, the expenses of surrender will be paid in blood and treasure. McCain repeats his pride for advocating surge first. Proud of our troops for not waving the White Flag of Surrender.
Update 9:20pm Eastern. Hey, did ya know that Rudy rejected Saudi prince’s money? If you missed it the last 1,000 times he mentioned in past debates and TV appearance, he just told the whole story again.
Russert talks deficits. “Why should Republicans be re-elected?” McCain says Democrats would spend more, make entitlement crisis worse, increase taxes. McCain lambastes Bush-aspproved earmarks/pork/Bridge to Nowhere projects. “I’ll veto them…we will clean up our act, fix this problem of having to borrow money from China, balance our budget.”
Huck gets a question. I forgot he was there. “I wasn’t in Washington messing things up. That’s why I should get a chance.” Refuses to blame Bush. Huck pats himself on the back for saying the economy was bad before any of his GOP challengers recognized it.
Update 9:14pm Eastern. Romney defends his Mass. tax record. Criticizes McCain for not supporting Bush tax cuts the first time around.
Russert invites McCain to attack Romney’s fee hikes. He defends his opposition to Bush tax cuts and asserts his fiscal conservative bona fides.
Ron Paul objects to appropriating more money for stimulus…immediately segues to war spending on Empire. Natch.
Update 9:04pm Eastern. Ok, here we go. Stimulus-palooza is the first topic. Romney supports the Bush plan, but wish it went further…more tax cuts, “grow jobs.”
“We have a housing crisis…that has spilled out into the economy…helping to reverse the crisis…is crucial.”
No words at all about fiscal responsibility, thrift, prudence, or the need for borrowers who made bad decisions to suck it up, let the market correct, and let housing prices fall.
No beef.
McCain worries about pork barrel projects. Likes expense write-offs. “The rate cuts by Bernanke are a good beginning, but we need to continue to cut tax rates.” We need to encourage saving (YES!) and cut spending.
Giuliani: The package is ok, but doesn’t go far enough. Make the Bush tax cuts permanent. (Good.) We need a permanent package. Regulatory reform. Comprehensive tax reform. (All good.)
Russert to McCain: You said you weren’t well-versed on economy. Is it a problem for your campaign? Maverick says he doesn’t know where the quote came from. Drops names of economic advisers – Martin Feldstein, Jack Kemp, etc., etc. “I have been a consistent fighter to restrain spending and cut taxes.” (See: “I’ve always been for tax cuts, except for the ones I vote against.”)
Huckabee attacks stimulus for putting money into people’s pockets so consumers can buy Chinese products. Ok. Wants infrastructure spending for highways from Bangor to Florida. Sounds like he’s on board with the Schumer plan.
6:42 PM. The GOP presidential candidates meet again for a Florida debate on MSNBC. The show begins at 9pm Eastern. I’ll be here. No bull–red or otherwise–tonight. Just me, you, and a batch of White House contenders who will be appealing for the first time to Republican primary voters first and foremost. Not independents. Not Democrats.
So: Show us the beef.
Sanctuary Rudy’s slipping. Big Nanny Huck’s fading. McCain’s still channeling Geraldo. And Romney’s running Spanish language ads.
Yes, this is the Republican field.
***
AP:
The Florida primary offers 57 Republican National Convention delegates to the winner. It is the first big state to vote in the nominating campaign, the first winner-take-all contest in terms of delegates, and the final election before a virtual national primary on Feb. 5.
The five contenders shared a stage as polls suggested Romney and McCain were co-frontrunners in the state. Both the former Massachusetts governor and the Arizona senator are campaigning aggressively and have sparred periodically over the economy and tax cuts.
Giuliani and Huckabee were well behind in the same surveys, and struggling.
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Listen to the liberal applause form th brainwashed 19-year-olds. leave it to MSNBC
McCain’s follow up answer is terrible.
Rudy calls out the questioner!!!! YES!
Yea Rudy!
Democrap questions from democrap questioners in front of democrap audience.
Boring.
There go the liberal shills at the college gain, applauding paul over the war.
Shut up Paul
Why even ask Ron Paul this question?
I’d vote for Sweeny Todd just to keep Comisar Hillary and the First Pervert out of the White House.
And he could do Edwards hair.
Zorro: yes.
Shhh, Ron Paul.
What was that face Rudy just made when Mitt was talking?
Hate to say it but the only conservative statements in the first 40 minutes have been from….Ron Paul.
Good answer by Mitt.
lol, they better be careful leaving their mics hot.
How on earth can you type so fast Michelle?
Okay, now things are going to get interesting. Rudy’s big chance. Don;t blow it, mr mayor.
This might be where McCain get’s KO’d by Mitt, who is the one I’m guessing Mitt throws a shot at.
Paul is a Libertarian, not a conservative.
I watch ron paul lips move all i heard was wawawa
good grief a Hilldebeast commercial…
Only one “my friends” in 45 minutes. A record low.
Oh come one Mitt, Rudy can answer that questions(in theory), McCain couldn’t.
uh-oh, Mitt goes after Rudy, my 2 guys against each other.
Just before break, someone was still miked. It sounded like Russert said, “This is unbelievable!” Yes, Timmy, it was unbelievable that you did not ask questions but slam Republicans.
I hope someone asks McCain about amnesty. Please.
Yes he did!!
And finally someone called out the democrats on taking credit for the surge.
I bet Mitt did not want more face time for mccain
Mitt blew it buy not addressing shamnesty with McCain. He too is out of touch with the conservative base.
Decent answers, which got better near the end.
I want McCain’s face to soon match his tie.
McCain goes after the weakling, and sounds like a democrat in the process.
Will Rudy go after mcCain? I think so. mcCain goes after Huckabee. Easy target
McCain has a great question for huckabee
Man, sorry I’m late to this…I was out stimulating the economy.
Has the moderator commented on how the candidates are dressed or their level of grooming? This is MSNBC, right?
Ugh, the fair tax.
McC is asking Huckabee about Fair Tax he’s wimping out! Fair Tax will Never,never happen. Get real!
So we won’t have the IRS, but who is going to manage this “prebate?” And this doesn’t get rid of the underground economy, it just taxes it, Huck.
Huckabee does not understand his own fair tax plan
No one is going to buy Hucks numbers.
McCain has no idea what Paul is talking about.
Johnny Mac just wanted him to prattle on about his tax plan that glazes America’s eyes.
no one is asking McCain about amnesty, grrrrrrrrr.
McCain LOL says on economics that he’s hoping his buddies will bail him out!
THIS ONE WILL HURT HIM!
That’s four for the listing. FLUB!! I can’t belive I’m cheering for Ron Paul right now.
Paul gave quite the smirk to that flub.
Mitt questioning Rudy on China was pretty slick. He knew Rudy would answer favorably and Mitt’s been taking heat for the Bain Capital/China/3Com.
I can’t vote for a man with a frost-top combover.
No matter his politics.
McCain keeps yakking about his buddies. I am sure Lindsey Graham wants his name mentioned—and his bud Teddy Kennedy and Feingold.
Huck asks a great 2A question
good point Mookie.
Score one for Huck against the gun grabber.
Rudy and mitt seem to be dismissing McCain.
Rudy, this question needs to go to McCain.
A little over 1/2 hr left…immigration discussion, please.
I thought Mitt’s answer was acceptable, no flubs and consistent with what he’s done in Mass. I don’t think it hurts him at all.
Mitt does not need to bring up his health care plan.
and now he’s called out on it. Ouch!
mcCain: “as more and more severe weather patterns take place”
?!
I did’t know they ran like the stock market.
McC had to bring up WEATHER CHANGE>
“More and more violent weather…”
Hmmmm. Is Gore in this debate????
Violent weather patterns, McCain?
Guess you forgot to read the Florida papers yesterday that warmer waters are protecting us against hurricanes.
Oh my gosh! Greenhouse gasses! The sky is falling!
Fred Thompson would have brought the beef tonight as he did at the last several debates.
I agree wholeheartedly with you, Oink. Where’s the beef? He withdrew on Tuesday
On January 24th, 2008 at 7:19 pm, Miss Ladybug said:
As for why Thompson didn’t do better, I think too many people voted for their idea of “most electable vs. the Dems” instead of “person with views most like my own as a conservative”.
Then there is this.
Ugh! Thanks, Ladybug. Just when I thought I was finally coming to terms with Fred’s withdrawal.
Preach it Rudy!
Rudy. GOOD POINTS! Good CONSERVATIVE solutions!!!
This is a great answer by Rudy.
Biofuels,, yada yada yada
OUT-FRIGGIN-STANDING RUDY.
a few more like that and you’re back on top
Cap and trades don’t work.
Credits? AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH!
McCain just because europe is doing it does not mean we should.
John, One good volcano eruption can spoil your whole day!!!
Not a peep on shamnesty- how out of touch are these clowns?
I was waiting for McCain to recommend Gore’s carbon credit scam operation.
Waiting for ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION!
Anybody?? Anybody??
I hear you Marshall.
The cap and trade is nothing but a hidden tax. The only way any energy company can lower their carbon emissions would be either: A) switch the fuel they’re using to somthing that costs more to produce than people are willing to but it for or B) install really expensive equipment where the cost is passed on to the consumer. Either way, you and I pay more for energy and global warming, supposing it exists (it doesn’t), doesn’t change.
Oh good the debates in spanish on telemundo.
I just looked out the window and saw violent weather patterns, greenhouse gases and the noxious emmissions from McCain wafting north to my house.
Please, immigration.
Way to pander for the NJ NY vote Rudy, not mention all those NY/NJ transplants in Florida.
Or, emigration as the case may be, Lindsay.
well, good face-saving, sorta.
Oh Rudy. I love ya but the Giants are not winning the Super Bowl.
This polite gentlemen’s coffee klatch is putting the electorate to sleep.
Let’s have some distinctions between candidates – Oh, I just heard “immigration”.
I’m not concerned about climate change.
McCain I will never vote for you
Can anyone seriously imagine Brian Williams asking questions as tough as there 3rd-segment ones to the democrats?
McCain keeps a stack of names at the ready, no matter what the topic.
I think his mother should be the Press Secretary in a non-McCain White House.
McCain’s brain is a bridge to nowhere.
Oh there it is!11 Dind ding ding ding ding!!! It took 70 minutes to get to his list of spending he opposed.
Great answers, Mitt.
Yummy red meat from mitt
Ain’t it funny, speakin’ of who their political enemies are – that inside the military, the ones who hate Hanoi John are the same ones who already hated John McCain – and McCain Feingold THOMPSON was aimed at SHUTTING THESE VETERANS up!
hhhmmm…
Mitt–McCain had been in Washington even longer than the Clintons.
I wish McPain would take that bridge to nowhere that he is spouting.
Illegals???????
Is it not politically correct for a true conservative to discuss this problem????
Gayle,
That isn’t an issue for liberals, so it would never occur to the people at MSNC
This is a pretty good answer by Mitt.
hey, is this suddenly the Mitt show?
I’m not sure what else these guys can actually say about illegal immigration, quite frankly. We know there positions, all they can do is flip flop some more, all of them.
What are they going to say about that we haven’t heard a million times before?
Can I just say: Tim Russert is an Ass.
Who cares how much of his money Romney has put in? Especially if the info is going to made public on the 31st for those weird ones that do want to know.
Where the (expletive)are the illegal immigration questions?! They did this in the last NBC debate too.
Mitt was ready for the Mormon question. Great job!
Why is Ron Paul in an echo chamber?
Agreed
On January 24th, 2008 at 9:06 pm, taylork said:
Is anyone, household that is, actually planning there 2010 budget?
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
I had one uncle who did that, an a few cousins who probably have – prolly a another uncle, too come to think of it. I now have three neices that I know do that, and several cousins who most likely do, as well.
But I have a very very large family.