“Banks are helping sharia make a back-door entrance”
Tarek Fatah warns Canadians about sharia creep in the banking system–an issue raised here during the Dubai ports debacle.
Fatah:
It seems only yesterday that Premier Dalton McGuinty declared: “There will be no sharia law in Ontario.” Many of us, who witnessed the medieval nature of manmade sharia laws in our countries of birth, heaved a sigh of relief back in September of 2005. We thought this was the end of the attempt by Islamists to sneak sharia into a Western jurisdiction. We were wrong.
The campaign to introduce sharia is back. Last time, the campaign took a populist approach, invoking multiculturalism. This time, the pro-sharia lobby is dangling the carrot of new niche markets and has the backing of Canada’s major banks. Such icons of the corporate world as Citibank NA, HSBC Holdings PLC, and Barclays PLC have endorsed sharia banking and have started offering Islamic financing products to a vulnerable Muslim population…
…Dozens of Islamic scholars and imams now serve on sharia boards of the banking industry. Moreover, a new industry of Islamic banking conferences and forums has emerged, permitting hundreds of sharia scholars to mix and mingle with bankers and economists at financial centres around the globe. In the words of Mr. Saleem, who attended many such meetings, they gather “to hear each other praise each other for all the innovations they are making.” He gives examples of how sharia scholars only care for the money they get from banks, willing to rubberstamp any deal where interest is masked.
No sooner had CMHC announced its plans to study sharia-compliant mortgages, than an imam from Montreal’s Noor Al Islam mosque offered his services to Canada’s banks, claiming Muslims are averse to conventional mortgages because “it goes against their beliefs,” a claim that would not withstand the slightest scrutiny.
Other academics who have studied the phenomenon have reached similar conclusions. Two New Zealand business professors, Beng Soon Chong and Ming-Hua Liu of Auckland University, in an October, 2007, study on the growth of Islamic banking in Malaysia, wrote: “Only a negligible portion of Islamic bank financing is strictly ‘profit-and-loss sharing’ based. … Our study, however, provides new evidence, which shows that, in practice, Islamic deposits are not interest-free.” They concluded that the rapid growth in Islamic banking was “largely driven by the Islamic resurgence worldwide.”
And coming to America, too.
Flashback 2006: Muslim-only banks?
Flashback: Debbie Schlussel - Myths & Facts About the Islamic Bank
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Hey, say what you will about their fascist Human Rights Commissions that are persecuting Mark Steyn and the rise of sharia and increase in Muslim honor killings, at least they have “free” health care and no ones hate them like America is despised for her imperialist tendencies. The beer is better, too.
(Note: Except for the beer comment, most of the above is sarcasm.)
I hate to say “I told you so” but
“I Told You So”
They’re coming at us from all directions and it’s only a matter of time unless we identify our true enemy which is??????
All together now…
The fact is we are beyond warning about this. It has infested the U.S. (for many years) AND Canada. Banks here are even engaging in Islamic Banking at a loss and violating federal and state employment laws by only hiring Muslims. It’s too late.
Well, duh. If I were a Canadian bank I’d endorse sharia banking too.
Hey Moe Hamed! Open a sharia-compliant account at the Bank of TexasTiger and earn 0% interest!!!
All under the guise of multiculturalism.
I’m sure they’ve managed to circumvent a Canadian law in some way. Dhimmitude, coming to a U.S. Bank near you. If we allow them to follow the Qu’ran when it comes to banking what’s to stop us from allowing all of the mandates of the Qu’ran?
And if you open an account today, receive a lifetime supply of shampoo and body gel (in a TSA-compliant bottle) as a premium.
What kind of “religion” makes rules like THAT???
Isn’t it amazing. Just like with the Mexican government. They use our freedoms and laws against us and worst of all. We allow it, in the name of political correctness and liberalism.
As my mind fills with disgust for p.c. and progessive thinkers. I wonder about all the illegals. What will they do, and who will they sponge off of. The Latin drug cartels, do they really think Islam will let them continue to pollute the populance?
What a mess we now have. Do to the fact we have no leaders who will stand up for America first.
So what is the difference between a regular mortgage and a Sharia-approved mortgage?
And is this really different than certifying products as kosher?
I mean if I’m forced to get a mortgage on Sharia terms them I have a problem with it. But if I go into a bank and I can choose between the regular mortgage and the Sharia–approved mortgage I’m simply picking the one with better terms. Choices, isn’t that what capitalism is all about?
yt1300,
One that wishes to rule the world. Convert or die. Those are the only two options.
___________________________
I really couldn’t tell you but when I think about what the Bible says versus what the Qu’ran says it becomes abundantly clear to me (*in the mindset of a non-believer*) which is the word of God.
I could definitely see this happening very soon by US Banks. After all Bank of America has sold out to illegal invaders why not submit to dhimmitude too. Who won’t the government allow them to pander too next?
Bank of America will be the first one to take advantage of this considering all the fee’s they charge.
Who said it? Bury your money, that’s becoming more of a reality than we think.
What an idiotic answer to an idiotic question - like no other religion has rules that seem “weird” to outsiders.
This is something else my bank wanted to look in to.
A Muslim/Islam company in New York wanted to look through our entire customer database of 150,000 to determine which ones were “Muslim” and could benefit from Muslim Banking.
I protested about customer security to no avail. Our Politically Correct upper management instructed me to turn over the data.
I created a database for that only displayed the customer’s name and a check box they could click to indicate that person was Muslim.
Three workers from this company sat in a conference room on a stripped down pc for three days, looking through the list.
In the end, the total number of Muslims was 1%, hardly worth creating program for.
Then, to my surprise, this Muslim company, called and complained that there were treated like “they were not welcome”.
We took them to breakfast and lunch for 3 days. We gave them a comfortable, well lit room to work in.
So far, Muslim Banking is still on hold, but I fear the day it happens.
Oh, and Muslims get around the “earn no interest/pay no interest” on bank accounts by calling them “service fees”, which they are allowed to pay.
It’s all semantics.
Corona,
Perhaps you’ve misunderstood, I don’t think Islam’s rules seem “weird” at all. They are downright deadly. I hope that clears up the matter for you.
they can’t charge interest to another moslem, but they can everyone else. so are these banks now owned by moslems? it is moslem to moslem where the no interest is to be charged, however they can charge interest to non-moslems. guess who is going to pay the interest for the moslem patron? yeah, the dhimmies will be paying the interest for them.
how many banks have been pulled out of near failure by the saudis? hmmmmmmmmmm.. islam, which has determined there is no separation of the government from the religious belief, is counter to the constitution and we must begin to show this comparison. islam and the US constitution cannot exist together.
I don’t mind a religion that I’m not familier with seeming to be weird. But I have a problem with a religion that tells it’s follwers it’s ok to strap a bomb to their child in order to kill me and/or my children.
In the end, the fight against creeping sharia will be door-to-door because all of our institutions and leaders are failing us.
Yes - and if they’re hiring only Muslims, imagine what the world would be like.
Muslim landlord? Rents only to Muslims.
Muslim banks? Loans only to Muslims.
Muslim bosses? Hires only Muslims.
Muslim realtors? Sell homes only to Muslims.
Muslim doctors? Treat only Muslims.
Muslim politicians? Work only for Muslims and shari’a law.
Our death will not come by bombs. It will be the slow, suffocating death of political correctness.
One day, Americans will wake up and realize they - as infidels - have no employment opportunities, no housing opportunities, no financial options, and no government recourse. We will be reduced to second-class citizens in a third world nation rife with violence, pollution, discrimination and oppression.
And then it will be too late to say anything besides, “Told you so”…
This is the one aspect of islam that I have no problem with. If they want to make loans where the interest is called something else to get around sharia, we should not only let them, we should encourage it.
Just ordered a “My Sharia Amour” mug from SteynOnline!
It seems like every time I read an article like this I end up spending money. I’m now receiving Maclean’s and by this time next week I’ll be taking my coffee in a new mug…
Viva Steyn!
Sounds alot like prostitution to me. I think they should all go stone themselves to death.
Well, it probably derives from the Old Testament prohibition on interest.
The original theological view was that usury was a lack of charity.
Christianity and Judaism have both changed their original position (complete prohibition) on charging interest as the societies they lived in became more developed economically. This process started at least as far back as St. Thomas Aquinas:
They have no respect for anyone else’s culture and customs and expect everyone to respect their culture and customs. The religion that has a personality of a two-year old throwing a tantrum. I don’t see how anyone ever allowed extreme islam to be called a religion. It resembles a gang more than anything else.
“Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s. Render unto God, that which is God’s.” Christians believe in paying our taxes and paying proper interest. Well, maybe some day soon, I can walk into a bank for a mortgage, announce my name as “graysonret mohammed”, say “Praise be to Allah” and get my loan interest-free. Now, I wouldn’t complain, except for the stiff mattress where my money had been previously stashed. The way things are going that maybe the only way to get a loan in the near future. Either that or join the day laborers as “graysonret gonzalez” and get government money for free.
Oh, yes! It’s because of their strong hisory, and background in financial markets, that have propelled the Islamic peoples of the world, to the forefront of the financial world markets, and brought their people out of abject poverty!!!!
Making sharia compliant mortgages available to Muslims is like making kosher food available to Jews. If you are not an observant Jew, you can eat whatever traif (un-kosher food) you want.
The Bible (and probably the Koran) forbids charging interest. Jews take this seriously. If my brother borrows money from me, and wants to pay interest, I suggest he calculate the interest and give it to charity. Banks in Israel have some exemption that makes interest kosher (I don’t know how that’s done). Muslims have a similar arrangement.
Bottom line: making sharia mortgages available to Muslims in Canada does not put anyone’s daughter in danger of being stoned to death for dancing in public. Find something real to worry about.
You’re right lgm.
Sharia doesn’t pose a threat to us in any way, shape or form. Besides, all of their claims about world domination should be ignored - they are empty threats. How could we expect anything but love and peace to flow from the Religion of Peace. They never hurt anybody. Thanks for the insightful analysis… NOT.
Today’s Friday!!!
Citibank apparenlty does not allow transactions for firearms. I’ve heard that they even freeze accounts for that!!!
http://accurateshooter.wordpress.com/2008/01/08/citicorp-refuses-to-process-firearms-transactions/
Wow! Chep, I didn’t hear anything about this. Unbelievable.
LGM,
I don’t know of any public bank(s) that cater specifically towards Christians or Jews. I also know of no bank(s) that doesn’t charge interest because of a Christian or Jewish law from the Bible or Torah, so don’t even try to compare them to this sharia stuff. You also know damn well if a bank agrees to this sharia crap, they will offset (not carbon) the loss of interest by charging other people more fees. Just another form of socialism.
“Sharia banking coming soon to a bank near you”?
Sorry folks, it’s already here. Log on to any US bank site and do a little investigating. Most banks have an Islamic banking area for mulims. I have know about this for about six month when I read it on an islamic web site. THERE HEEERRREEE!
If you want to watch the newly formed FTSE Shariah funds, search Google Finance for SWD for their index fund and SWUSA for sharia approved stock here. Looks like the Japan market has indexed these stocks from around the world.
Actually, for Christians the Old Testament prohibition on usury has been relaxed. It is no longer a sin to charge a reasonable, just rate of interest.
Also, have you heard of a bank or other non-religious business hiring only Catholics? Lutherans? Jews? I don’t think so.
Give it a few years. Talk to me after shari’a law is imposed on the U.S. and tell me then we were “alarmists” and bigots for trying to combat this.
Richard Branson is already into this in the U.S., with his Virgin Money company.
He bought out “Circle Lending”. which is nothing but a Sharia compliant loan program.
Expect to see more of these “Peer to Peer” lending programs, under various other western friendly sounding names, coming soon to your bank.
LetterFromRichardBranson
theroc5156 said(#33):
Not Christians, but yes Jews. You wouldn’t know about them just like you wouldn’t know about kosher food in North Dakota.
Read again, that’s not what I said.
The Torah is part of the Bible, not a separate thing.
No. They will charge more for sharia compliant mortgages, just as you have to pay more for kosher food.
Take a breath, grab a brew & relax. Nobody is trying to collectivize your pool table.
IIRC some banks in the Twin Cities are coming up with Halal banking products as well.
I do not see in the article where these banking products are being mandated by the government or forced onto all of the bank’s customers. How are these products different from “social justice investment funds”. Silly perhaps, a big deal don’t think so.
Last I recall banks are private entities and as long as the products are within established laws of the nation they can be tooti frutti, kosher or halal for all I care.
In any event, its just a shell game. The banks are going to expect a certain return whether or not they want to say they are lending the money out at x% or if they say they want $X in return for the loan, it works out the same.
A colleague informed a person wants to buy a car so the bank buys the car, marks it up and then sets up a payment plan. So instead of saying you can have the money for five years at 5%, you would owe $(whatevver 5% over five years works out to be) in addition to the cost of the car.
Where things differ is in the savings account idea and my recollection of that is its not at all dissimilar to a mutual fund.
30pcs lgm notes more serious dangers posed by Sharia and halal banking is not one of them. To others who think there are no Jewish or Christian banking/finance products there are.
I do have to wonder if anyone in the “Western” security establishment during the period between 1945-1975 ever thought out and wrote/spoke about the implications of pouring trillions of dollars into the Islamic oil-patch . . . and how those petro-dollars were going to be recycled?
Also consider what the consequences of when the Persian Gulf oil fields go into decline.
Here in 2008, doesn’t look too good to me!
LGM what are you going to do when Islamic law forbids females from holding office here in the USA. You going to keep putting your head in the sand? I can see after Hillary surrenders more and more points to the Muslims after taking office they will force her to resign because they can’t take a woman holding public office. LGM its creeping and creeping to you by the inch and don’t say you were not warned.
i-flex and IDOM, two ’solutions’ companies are supplying 7 of the top 10 US banks with ’sharia software’ by 1, January, 2008.
“One of the toughest challenges facing Islamic banks is how to cope with the changes in Sharia requirements. But, the requirements for an Islamic core banking system are not very different from a conventional core banking system. In this article, by Rodney Diola from The Asset, Jamil bin Hassan, i-flex solutions, explains the various technological nuances of Islamic banking technology.”
…………
The Islamic Bank of Asia Selects i-flex’s FLEXCUBE Islamic Banking Suite as its Core Banking Platform-02-Nov-07-http://www.iflexsolutions.com/iflex/media/mediadetails.aspx?PressRel_id=11697
………….
FLEXCUBE Goes Live at Citi in 67 Countries–14-Nov-07-http://www.iflexsolutions.com/iflex/media/mediadetails.aspx?PressRel_id=11699
Suntrust:::Oracle and Reveleus Announce SunTrust Banks’ Selection of Reveleus Basel II Solution
12-Jul-07
New York, NY and Redwood Shores, Calif., USA, July 12, 2007: Reveleus™, a business of i-flex® solutions and a global provider of analytical applications for the financial services industry, and Oracle today announced that SunTrust Banks, Inc. one of the largest banking organizations in North America, has selected the Reveleus Basel II Solution as a central component of its planned adherence to the Basel II capital adequacy regulations. The solution will help deliver sophisticated risk management capabilities that support the needs of the business, enable risk-enlightened management and the optimal allocation of capital. The solution will span all activities of the Bank including Consumer, Commercial, Mortgage, Private Clients and Capital Markets.
http://www.iflexsolutions.com/iflex/media/mediadetails.aspx?PressRel_id=11684
garyt said (#41):
I am more worried about conservative Christians imposing religious law in the US than Muslims. There are plenty of them who don’t think women should not hold office. Prohibition was not a Muslim movement.
LGM where is this taking place where Christians are taking over? Which commandment did Jesus say that you don’t agree on? I doubt if you have anything to fear because Jesus said in the last days there would be a great falling away and also most of us are lukewarm Christians. Which Christian politican is against women holding office? I can’t think of any but I bet if there were Thatcher style GOP women most Christians would vote for her and you would have nothing to fear. Christians are not barring women from office.
Wow, some people seem to have shut down their reading skills with lgm’s comment. At the end he states
As far as lgm’s last comment well that is just plain nuts.
I’ve seen a lot of posts about this subject here… Some say don’t worry about it (lgm) and others are nearly frantic about it. Let’s be real. Those animals invaded Spain and waged war against my people for 700 staight years. They created the African slave trade and since a LOT of black muslims came along into Spain (one family of BLACK muslims even ruled for a while), it stands to reason that once the Europeans ejected the muslim invaders, they would have picked up a few of their habits - like race-based slavery. Point is, those animals have been the root cause for much pain and suffering around the world. They still are. It doesn’t matter if SHaria only applies to them and isn’t going to hurt anything (lgm). What matters is that this is our place, and they should accept that. If they want Sharia, they should go to Iran. As for the door-to-door war that wil be forthcoming, I say stop complaining about this and start taking action. It will come to that point. With street gangs, drugs, illegal aliens, and Islam all tearing our homeland apart, the righteous can not complain if they sit back and do nothing. Do unto them what they would (and will) do unto you. Or just take it, like we’ve been taking it for decades now. Your choice.
People - this is what is known as Manning’s Corollary:
It also applies to any discussion of Islamic teaching, wherein someone will claim Christian teaching is equally as bad.
Newsflash for you, lgm. Neither was it a Catholic movement, nor did it have the backing of all Christian denominations.
In fact - one of today’s more liberal denominations, the Methodists, the largest driving forces behind prohibition.
The Catholic Church declared prohibition an “unjust law” and Catholics did not have to abide by it. And if you went into any speakeasy, you were likely to find Christians of many stripes breaking this stupid law. So don’t try to feed us the notion that the only people drinking in the 1920s were non-Christians.
You’d think, given the liberals love of Nannies who want to control what we eat, what we drive, and at what temperature we set our thermostat…prohibition would be a loved movement.
So before you throw around stupid, ignorant claims like that, know your facts.
Also, just so you’re aware, drinking alcohol is strictly forbidden under Islam. I guess you’re eager for a second, more permanent go-round on that prohibition thing, huh?
garyt said (#44):
I didn’t say “Christians are taking over”. I said they are more likely than Muslims to take over. Mainstream candidate Huckabee says he wants to rewrite the US constitution to be more Christian. No main stream candidate wants it to be more Muslim.
Jesus forbade divorce, we do it all the time. He told his followers to ignore the laws of Moses.
Prove it. Show hard examples of *how* they are going to “take over”. Please show me where Christians are proclaiming a jihad against the west and a desire to create a Christian caliphate over non-Christians.
Please cite where Huckabee said what you’re claiming. And how you know that he’ll win the election - right now, he’s one candidate in a pool of many.
Your ignorance of Christian teaching is glaring here.
Talk to me sometime and I’ll show you what Jesus taught. Or, better yet, read the Politically Incorrect Guide to the Bible.
That will set the record straight.
englishqueen01 (#49)
If I say I’m more likely to be killed by lightning than by a meteor, that doesn’t mean I think I’m about to be struck.
I don’t think Christian fundamentalists are about to take over America, and even less than that is the chance of Muslims taking over.
Questions for you:
1. Does the Christian Bible forbid divorce? If you say it does not, why do Catholics think it does?
2. Did Jesus explicitly refuse to follow a commandment given by G-d to Moses when he refused to wash his hands in the required way before eating? (Hint: yes)
lgm:
You refuse to look at the facts. Muslim jihadists - led by the Koran and the Hadith - believe they are called to spread Islam throughout the world. By the sword. Since its inception, Islam has waged war after war with non-Muslim civilizations and within its own religion…pitting sect against sect in a frantic effort to establish dominance of Islam over all else.
There is ample evidence to support this claim, as well as *lots* of information and evidence of jihadists and terrorists calling for the fall of Western civilization. Check out some of what Osama bin Laden has said - then tell me there isn’t a motive to take over Europe, America and the rest of the civilized world.
At the same time, you do not hear of someone like the Pope calling for violent war against non-Catholics, and supporting violent policies that advocate the forcible subjugation of non-Catholics to the will of the Church. You. Just. Don’t. See below where I talk about free will and the spreading of the faith. So don’t compare the two because it’s an ignorant, childish argument.
Funny - because here you said:
Which is it? Are Christians lying in wait, eager to spring a theocracy on America, or aren’t they? And why do Christians - in your opinion - pose more of a threat than the those who are working to commit acts of terror in the US?
And now to answer your questions. First, I’ll tackle the second one because it ties into the first.
The Bible is divided into two parts - the Old and New Testament. The Old Testament deals with the history of the religion and the time between the fall of man in the Garden of Eden and Jesus’ birth.
The thing you are casually omitting here is that God sent Jesus - His Son - to establish the new covenant of salvation. The laws of Moses were the “old laws” and worked as a guide for the people until the coming of Christ, at which time Christ established the new teachings - which meant keeping, building on, and refining some of Moses’ laws (e.g. the Ten Commandments) and getting rid of others (e.g., the rules on hand washing).
Your assertion that Jesus’ broke God’s law would render the entirety of the Christian faith invalid because Christians believe Jesus lived and died sinlessly, as the ultimate sacrifice for our sins. If Jesus had acted contrary to God’s plan by breaking this one Mosaic law, He would not have remained sinless. In other words, Jesus was doing what God sent Him to do - establish new laws under the new covenant.
The Old Testament, and specifically the first five books, make up the Jewish Torah and they observe the Mosaic laws.
The New Testament deals with Jesus’ life, his teachings, and the New Covenant. The New Testament is the Christian testament, and deals with the founding of the Catholic Church.
The Catholic Church can trace the lineage of popes all the way back to Biblical times - right to Peter, whom Christ established as the first pope over 2,000 years ago.
Throughout those centuries, the Church teaching on marriage has always been that it is a Sacrament, instituted by Christ, and indissoluble by man. The Church has always forbade divorce because of the sacramental quality of marriage.
The Church also teaches that mankind is endowed with free will, by which they can choose to follow the teaching of the Church, accept God’s grace through the Holy Spirit, and work to live in unity with God and His teachings.
People choose to reject or ignore those teachings on a daily basis. Why? Because mankind is not perfect. We are flawed, we make mistakes, and we fall. Repeatedly. The Church recognizes this and offers the Sacrament of Reconciliation to forgive one’s sins. This sacrament can be repeated as necessary.
As I said above, the Pope calls for a renewal of the faith by using our free will to accept God’s grace and the teachings of Jesus and the Church. Not by force or threat of violence. Free will. See the difference?
Despite the fact there are Christians and Catholics who divorce it does not mean the Church’s teachings are null and void. Any Catholic who thinks the Church and/or the Bible does not forbid divorce is poorly catechized and *chooses* to ignore those teachings (annulment is another matter for another discussion). Catholics can be civilly divorced, and not live together. The Church still recognizes that marriage until one partner dies or the marriage is annulled. Which means, according to Church teaching, a civilly divorced Catholic cannot enter another serious relationship or valid Church marriage unless they receive that annulment or their former spouse dies.
To say that because Christians and Catholics get divorced when the Bible forbids it makes the Biblical teaching null and void is like saying the thousands of murders that take place in America make laws against murder null and void.
Hope that answers your questions.
OK, as long as we’re debating divorce - would Christ think that the Detroit mayor’s wife has grounds for divorce, assuming there was NO physical adultery?
Oh, so no one ever knew what Christianity was until the Politically Incorrect Guide to the Bible was published?
I am no longer debating the issue, corona. I’ve said what needs to be said. lgm asked a question and I answered it.
Did I say that? No. I didn’t. But there are misconceptions about Christianity that abound - clearly you and lgm have some.
The Politically Incorrect Guide to the Bible is a good resource to correct those misconceptions - a rather ecumenical, but thorough, approach to Biblical history, theology, and teaching.
One of the silliest threads in quite some time. When you resort to hyperbole and fearmongering you greatly dilute the effectiveness of your message. Maurelius and lgm have this one spot on.
englishqueen01 (#51)
So divorce is like stealing. It’s forbidden. But if you slip and do it, you can be forgiven. Does that mean that like stealing it should be illegal?
So the old testament is the word of G-d, but when it says that commandments are for forever, he didn’t really mean forever, only until Jesus? And when he said don’t make a fire on Sabbath, he really meant do whatever the heck you want?