Stimulicious stupidity
Hans Bader continues ripping Washington’s stimulicious stupidity. He explains how the vaunted tax rebates discourage work and economic activity:
Under the “stimulus” plan proposed by House leaders and the White House, you get a “rebate” — even if you work so little that you pay no taxes — but not if you work so much that your income exceeds a certain level. That’s a disincentive to work. Yet they have the audacity to call it an economic “stimulus”! (Rebates did not revive the economy in past recessions.) It’s just another form of welfare that will drive up the deficit.
Wouldn’t you like to hear a leading GOP presidential candidate tell those truths?
Too much to ask…
***
John Boehner asks out loud: “Are Republicans the party that can fix Washington?”
Yeah, sometimes you have to wonder.
***
President Bush tells Congress to hurry up with the paddles.
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You stand on prinicple and you stand alone.
This goes right along with extending Unemployment Insurance time frames. More incentive to do less.
Let’s all go over to the local car dealers and demand their rebates, even if we’re not buying their cars. If they say that it’s illegal, tell them “No, it’s not and I can prove it”. Point out the government rebates. Rest my case.
Sorry, been typing all day, earning a living that is too good to be a factor in stimulating the economy.
I meant if a candidate stood on principle, then the majority would leave him to himself.
We blame the politicians for their general suckiness and flip-floppery, yet with this fickle, feckless, electorate, what is an honest person to do if they want to attain the office and try to effect change?
Did anyone really expect Congress to come up with a plan that made sense?
Come on people, we’re talking about the US Congress here.
I’m sure that most, if not all, of our congress critters actually wanted to be an agent for change when they were first elected. Then they got to Foggy Bottom, and things changed. Must be something in the water.
We still need to see the “Suck. It. Up.” candidate you have mentioned over and over again, Michelle. But, I don’t think any of the candidates have the intestinal fortitude to say it, even if they might think it to themselves.
Yes, we’ve all been saying it’s a tax.
What everyone seems to be ignoring is that it’s also another straw on the back of an already depressed dollar.
You don’t print money – and that’s what this is – when the dollar is cheap. You cut spending, you tigthen the money supply (as opposed to what Bernacke is doing), etc.
Friedman must be rolling in his grave…
Hey Boehner why can’t it be a permanent moratorium? Just pandering to the voters and then back to business as ususal.
And I keep repeating myself geezz, This is obviously the redistribution of wealth and Han’s Bater is right when he say’s it’s disincentive to work, as long as the government keep’s handing those that refuse or have no incentive to work they will keep saying weehaa free money and I did’nt have to do anything to earn it. The real tax payer’s are footing the bill for those who will go out and waste it on frivolous item’s and won’t use it on sensible thing’s like their mortgage, overdue utilities or any other sensible thing’s you can think of. This is so called stimulus fly’s in the face of everything conservitive, like I tell my kid’s work hard now and down the road you’ll reap the benefit, the delayed gratification ideology, this does nothing more than teach people that if you get in trouble or the ecomomy get’s in trouble don’t worry the government will give you a hand out that you have to do nothing for. Total BS!
I have to agree with only part of one thing that the Huckster said in the debate.
that was a bingo on that point, and the above.
You can work 50 hours/week at minimum wage and pay no taxes. Not all poor people are slackers. And not all slackers are poor.
Made in Mexico…Made in China
Yes, if Congress delays passing the package, we’ll find out that the economy is fine without it.
“Man, that would make us all look pretty stupid, peddling this recession bunk, wouldn’t it?”
It seems like this “disincentive to work” argument is a bit of a red herring. If it were a permanent change in the tax code it might have some effect on people’s decisions going forward. But it’s not. It hardly seems reasonable to think that a lot of people are going to alter their future behavior based on the chance that there might be another small, one-time tax cut some time in the next decade, and that it might follow the precedent of this one. Does it? And if not, there really is no incentive issue here.
Now, whether it is smart or fair is another matter entirely…
I saw the Bush doublespeak earlier today. He said that congress needed to move quickly to insure that we can continue to maintain the strong economy. Huh?
See why some of us are independant. Political parties and their hacks will never admit the truth. Just say the economy sucks right now.
Is there any way to refuse to take the “rebate”?
I think the “rebate” is a huge mistake, but I’ll take it. I’ve been wanting to buy a handgun & reloading equipment for quite a while.
No way to refuse the rebate. Sending it back won’t work, I’ve heard. One suggestion might help: Donate the rebate to your favorite charity…maybe Fisher House or a children’s hospital, or maybe Victory Junction.
Tear up the check. Done and done.
We are actually planning to put it toward debts we owe. So much for me stimulating the economy with a rebate. Sorry, Washington – foiled again.
Don’t worry about that because you won’t get it anyway!
If giving me $1800 will help stimulate the economy, why not give me back ALL of my tax money so I can REALLY start doing some stimulating?
I won’t be getting a rebate check….I’m anticipating a Bill actually, to help pay the “rebate” for those who haven’t paid taxes
Our plan too!
Oooooooh! I’m feeling over-stimulated.
Huh, silly me.
I’m trying to teach my kid about personal responsibility, integrity, honor, the work ethic.
Maybe I can find some old book at the library because looking at the business section of the newspaper today sure won’t do it.
Listening to our elected ‘leaders’ wont do it either.
I do wonder what the teens of today will be like in 30 years…worse than the dope smoking mad hippies? like the anti-everything Clintonians? Probably.
We can call them The Entitlement Generation.
That is what happens when you get scre_ed.
Let me see if I have this right.
The Democrats wre first telling us we need to remove the tax cuts becuase more money is needed to expand the government. Now they’re giving us (along with Republicans in a bi-partisan effort) money back in the forma of a rebate. This tells me that our government – by even the Democrats admission by deed – has too much of our money. That’s gonna make a strong case aganist tax increases going forward.
Now let’s look at what this ‘rebate’ does. First, it is riddled with class warfare (and outright tax wlfare) in the way it is being doled out. Work real hard – get nothing. Do nothing – get a rebate. HUH?
And then there is a big unintended consequence. Great – we put money onto consumer’s hands. The money is spent on TVs, cars, electronics, clothing – which means most of the money will flow out of the country and most of those items – or the parent companies – reside overseas. This will do nothing to improve our industrial base to make the econonmic boom permanent. Oh, if people actually do the right thing and save the money – wait for the bureacrats to complain about that too.
The problem is our system is flat out broken. Now we’re seeing that neither party seems to have a clue except to try to resort to pandering.
To recycle something I said on another board today:
…short of some grass roots Constitutional tack-on’s to go to a Fair Tax and strict 2 term limits for Congressmen (with no lobbying afterwards), we’ll always be getting the Vaseline end of the stick. Then when the long term filibuster blowhards are gone, start doing some real reform to start capping out of control lawyers & lawsuits, and reform the campaigns to where you don’t need millions of dollars to get elected – you need to be able to debate the issues and nothing more. We have public broadcasting… let’s use it.
And if elected President, I WILL see to it that Shiner Bock is available in all 50 states! Now THAT is pandering.
What gets me is what Pelosi said about returning money to the “hard-working” people. Really? We ought to remember that when, later, you want to raise taxes, and do away with the tax cuts, on the “hard-working” people of America. Aren’t you being a hypocrite, Pelosi? You want to take more money from us, yet, now, you want to return money to us. I hope when tax increase speech time comes, someone will point it out to you.
I don’t know. There are a lot of things you can buy with a tax rebate.
Darth Vader nixes Hans Bader!
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I will also apply it to debts, and use some for a little extra spending money for our vacation in July.
I’m surprised that everyone is getting so worked up about this. In my view, it’s no different than a tax cut…. delayed.
We paid tax money… we get it back. Except of course, some who didn’t pay get it back… just overlook that part of the argument.
I say: any money that comes to me instead of the government is money well spent. Even if we use it to pay debts, we reduce the amount of interest we pay, leaving more money for consumption of other goods. And, no offense to the debtors here, but if you did it once, you will do it again. If you put $600 on your credit card bill, you’ll have it back on in 3 months. Think back-to-school computer or summer vacation or… you get the point.
And as to that cartoon: baloney! You can’t get a decent handgun for $600 much less a long weapon. And $7 for a six-pack?!!?? What are you people drinking????? It ain’t no Stella Artois.
I’m the only one of my siblings who will qualify for a rebate, barely. And I’m lucky enough to still have 2 kids at home. My husband’s job pays half of what his old jobs does, otherwise we wouldn’t make the cut either.
My sibs works their butts off at their jobs and pay gobs of taxes. Why don’t they get theirs? Some rebate! Doesn’t my brother get credit for having a successful business that employs a bunch of other people? Creating jobs isn’t stimulating the economy?
As for unemployment, my 21 year old son with a high school diploma and 4 years of work experience got 3 job offers within 2 days of applying. There’s not an unemployment problem. The summer of 2002 when there wasn’t a single IT job posted when I was unemployed, THAT was a problem.
And is it even going to be a REAL rebate anyway? The last one wasn’t.
lgm (#11) said:
This is a good point. I’ll bet a bunch of our lower enlisted will also fall into that employed but paying no taxes category, and many of them work their butts off.
That’s the new American way. The least deserving get the most handouts, disgusting. Of course, hard-working people deserve it, regardless of their wage.
I’m going to teach the government a lesson: When I get my rebate, I’m going to cash it and put it in a box – out of the economy and out of their reach.
That’ll teach them to give me money!
Oops…That’ll teach them to give me someone else’s money.
I’m anxious to see an explanation of the $50B for businesses. I bet California gets most of it.