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101. #101
     On February 11th, 2008 at 1:09 am, purplepeep said:

     Mr_Conservative_Cat said:

     “Now, couldn’t they observe that you, too, are speaking from your own convictions ( or “feelings”, if you prefer)?”

     If ideological posturing can be seen as equal in the practical sense to manifest cause and effect, I would say yes, but I don’t, so I won’t and will instead disagree with your hypothesis.

     My take would be that we all do “ideological posturing” - i.e. “acting on one’s conviction”, MrCC. Thought process - acting from thought process.

     “They can state their convictions are what’s right for America, as can you re: your convictions.”

     That is correct. I wonder though, in context, how abstaining from voting or voting theird party and so ensuring the presidency to Hillay or Obama would be “what’s right” for America. I’d like you to answer that for me.

     In my case, it’s moot. The local electorate is such that the Democrat presidential candidate always wins. The anomoly was ‘72 McGovern-Nixon where McGovern got his clock cleaned everywhere except Mass (if memory serves). I can have some impact on things like school levies and dog license fees, though.

     But I view the abstaining or other party vote as I said before; folks say none are fit to serve as President. I understand that people want no part of hoisting wrong on their country.

102. #102
     On February 11th, 2008 at 2:12 am, Mr_Conservative_Cat said:

     My take would be that we all do “ideological posturing” - i.e. “acting on one’s conviction”, MrCC. Thought process - acting from thought process.

     Your take is highly insolvent intellectually. Once again, you appear to be stating that ideological posturing is equal manifestly to actual material cause and effect. No, PP, the idea is ridiculous. Dreaming about picking daisies in your sleep is not as manifest as running someone down with a car in reality - at least to the victim. And there will be innocent victims of selfishly sitting home and allowing Hillary or Obama to become President. And accordingly, pretending as though there are no negative consequences for your country by sitting out the election or voting for a third party candidate is likewise ridiculous. There are consequences for our inactions just as there are for our actions. Stay at home this fall or vote third party and you pull the level for Hillary once and determinedly whether you realize it or not. I’m just trying to help you realize it. Not understand it in theory, mind you, that you already understand. But realize it, Purple Peep. This isn’t just internet talk. Our actions matter.

     In my case, it’s moot. The local electorate is such that the Democrat presidential candidate always wins.

     With an attitude like that, they always will.

     I understand that people want no part of hoisting wrong on their country.

     Do you also understand that there is no such thing is a neutral inaction in an election? Stay home or vote third party and you hoist a worse wrong upon the country. Does that make it better? In an imperfect world where every moment is in reality an actual compromise, whether you see it or not, those “people of conscience” are hurting their country. And once again, they do it in the act of selfishly appeasing their own feelings instead of doing what is right for the country. Do you respect people who are prepared to do that?

103. #103
     On February 11th, 2008 at 10:10 am, Mr_Conservative_Cat said:

     Yes, we should hold McCain accountable and let him know that he needs us not just to win this year, but again when he wants his second term.

     That notwithstanding, sometimes I find it just bewildering how so many people can storm around hissyfitting saying they just can’t, in good conscience, vote for McCain. Even as someone who can’t stand him, I find this attitude to be somewhere between the Twilight Zone and the Outer Limits.

     I’m getting tired of remaking points differently every time the same people simply state in 10 words or less that they cannot vote for him “in good conscience”,so here are are some retro responses, sure to become classics, which I’ll be using from now on:

     On Immigration:

     On the issue of judges, as much as most of us on this board dislike McCain immensely, mostly because of his liberal stand on this very issue, he isn’t half as liberal as Hillary or Obama. In the future some similar suits will eventually make it to the Supreme Court. Right now this country is balancing between two worlds; we are neither a Sovereign Nation nor a Sanctuary Nation. Whether we become one or the other will likely depend on just a few judges who just happen to be among the most powerful on earth, and who cannot be removed for the rest of their lives. As ironic as it seems, if McCain is the Republican nominee, we’re going to have to support, vote him into office and tolerate him for four years. Why? Because Hillary or Obama will fill the judges seats as quickly as they possibly can with open-boarders socialist liberals - maybe in just a few months from taking office. Will McCain? Not likely. Why? Because McCain wants power first, and if he wants a second term, he’s going to have to at least modestly stay in line. Hillary and Obama get their power from those who believe in the reverse of what we do.

     On Not Voting McCain on Conscience:

     Those of us who are sucking it in by voting for McCain have principles, too, which one would not know from some of these posts, and I feel our principles are better than theirs, quite frankly, with all due respect. We’re doing something monumentally unplesant personally for the good of the country, as opposed to doing something for ourselves, and when you vote in contradiction to the good of the country over a misplaced sense of principle, you’re doing it for yourself. Sorry, but that’s how it shakes out unless you explain how allowing Hillary or Obama will be good for the country (and none of that Rush-on-meds stuff about uniting the conservatives as we all skip into the land of Oz, because that’s what that theory is, the land of Oz.)

     Here’s a question for you:

     If by the inaction of putting your “feelings” above the good of the nation (an illness some conservatives seem to have caught from liberals these days, it appears), you contribute your little share to the deaths of 80,000 of your innocent, hardworking fellow Americans, and breaking the hearts and destroying the lives of hundreds of thousands more as those killed will be grieved, will you still, knowing what you did, be able to look at yourself in the mirror and say “Yes, I was right and I’d do it again.”

     Let me give you a head’s up from where I stand: if your answer is “yes”, then in my opinion, knowing the potential in advance, you are self-aggrandizingly delusional to the point of having very serious issues with reality, to put it politely. No offense, but I mean that sincerely.

     Your feelings are important. Your sense of ethics and morality are important. But your little feelings do not trump the needs of your country. If every soldier in our military thought like you do, then we’d have no heroes.

     We all have to do lousey things for our Country, shi*ty things we simply hate. But you and I, by the Grace of God, are not called upon to go out and die while doing them. But as you know, our soldiers do. For you to say that voting for a candidate you detest is too difficult and too painful for you to do, you and like-minded soulmates should take another spin around Arlington National Cemetary sometime. Look at each grave. In that instant of death, as realization hit, I’ll bet all of them wished with all their heart that they were instead home with their loved ones, but I’ll bet not one regretted doing what needed to be done.

     It seems to me that sucking it in and casting an unpleasant vote for the best interests of the country when unpleasant choices are all we have isn’t asking for a hell of a lot in the big picture. Or are you so self-absorbed that you just don’t care?

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