Open-borders outrage alert: Judges are voting on the side of local immigration enforcement
Are we a Sanctuary Nation or Sovereign Nation? A growing and surprising number of judges are coming down on the side of local immigration enforcement. This is especially welcome news given the shrinking differences between the GOP and Democrat establishments on the issue. Via the NYT, which must be beside itself:
After groups challenging state and local laws cracking down on illegal immigration won a series of high-profile legal victories last year, the tide has shifted as federal judges recently handed down several equally significant decisions upholding those laws.
On Thursday, a federal judge in Arizona ruled against a lawsuit by construction contractors and immigrant organizations who sought to halt a state law that went into effect on Jan. 1 imposing severe penalties on employers who knowingly hire illegal immigrants. The judge, Neil V. Wake of Federal District Court, methodically rejected all of the contractors’ arguments that the Arizona law invaded legal territory belonging exclusively to the federal government.
On Jan. 31, a federal judge in Missouri, E. Richard Webber, issued a similarly broad and even more forcefully worded decision in favor of an ordinance aimed at employers of illegal immigrants adopted by Valley Park, Mo., a city on the outskirts of St. Louis.
And, in an even more sweeping ruling in December, a judge in Oklahoma, James H. Payne, threw out a lawsuit against a state statute enacted last year requiring state contractors to verify new employees’ immigration status. Judge Payne said the immigrants should not be able to bring their claims to court because they were living in the country in violation of the law.
These rulings were a sharp change of tack from a decision in July by a federal judge in Pennsylvania who struck down ordinances adopted by the City of Hazleton barring local employers from hiring illegal immigrants and local landlords from renting to them. In that case, the judge, James M. Munley of Federal District Court, found that the Hazleton laws not only interfered with federal law, but also violated the due process rights of employers and landlords, and illegal immigrants as well.
Hazleton was the first city to adopt ordinances to combat illegal immigration, laws that the mayor, Louis J. Barletta, said would make it “one of the toughest places in the United States” for illegal immigrants. After the Hazleton decision, many cities and towns that had been considering similar statutes against employers and landlords dropped the effort, fearing legal challenges that they would be likely to lose.
The recent federal decisions will probably give new encouragement to states and towns seeking to drive out illegal immigrants by making it difficult for them to find jobs or places to live.
The open-borders lobby is, no doubt, beside itself as well.
Turn off the magnets and much of the problem of massive, uncontrolled illegal immigration will solve itself. The Bush administration has failed miserably on employer sanctions and interior enforcement.
Local and state officials are filling the vacuum–just as I predicted they would do five years ago.
Self-destruction is not inevitable.
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Categories: Employer Sanctions, Open Borders Lobby, Sanctuary Cities
Confederate Yankee
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I wonder if there’s a very good reason for this. I wonder if judges, often clueless on larger issues on the local level, have been getting an education on immigration from the right and see it more squarely.
On the issue of judges, as much as most of us on this board dislike McCain immensely, mostly because of his liberal stand on this very issue, he isn’t half as liberal as Hillary or Obama. In the future some similar suits will eventually make it to the Supreme Court. Right now this country is balancing between two worlds; we are neither a Sovereign Nation nor a Sanctuary Nation. Whether we become one or the other will likely depend on just a few judges who just happen to be among the most powerful on earth, and who cannot be removed for the rest of their lives. As ironic as it seems, if McCain is the Republican nominee, we’re going to have to support, vote him into office and tolerate him for four years. Why? Because Hillary or Obama will fill the judges seats as quickly as they possibly can with open-boarders socialist liberals - maybe in just a few months from taking office. Will McCain? Not likely. Why? Because McCain wants power first, and if he wants a second term, he’s going to have to at least modestly stay in line. Hillary and Obama get their power from those who believe in the reverse of what we do.
Anyway, this is great, good news for a country which has not yet decided what kind of nation it truly wants to be.
Michelle, you’re up late on Saturday. I tried to watch Saturday Night Live, but their socialist agenda makes me want to vomit in my mouth.
Thanks for the Saturday night cheer, Michelle! Very encouraging to know that open-borders insanity is not as prevalent as we may have believed.
Good news. Are you paying attention Senator McCain?
I think rather than supporting a potential president who is going to have a difficult time winning even with his base support and who may or may not actually appoint conservative judges, we should perhaps concentrate on winning back Congress and the House so no matter who is in the oval office, we have a chance … if not to get conservative judges, to put off any selection of More Ruth Bader types. If the republicrats have been paying attention, they should at least know how to throw a wrench in the works by now. It certainly has been used effectively against them often enough.
IMHO
People ask how we can deport millions of illegals? The answer is we don’t have to deport them. As in Arizona, they will leave on their own accord, once they find the doors shut to all the benefits they thought they were “entitled”. With no jobs available, they will have to go back. “Don’t let the door hit you on the way out, folks.”
Not likely at all!
Most likely they got the BEST education in the SCHOOL OF HARD KNOCKS - straight on the GROUND, seeing what their districts are turning into and what PERIPHERAL DAMAGE they have to deal with - deciding to take some OLD FASHIONED SHORTCUTS to getting their areas policed back up before it is their own family that has to be literally mopped up off the floor!
Some people do like SAFE NEIGHBORHOODS to live in.
SOME folks are discovering that LIBERAL POLITICS do not give them any SAFETY and that their politics are cold comfort inside a PRISON they have to make of their own environment because of it.
Judges won’t have any jurisdiction to lord it over their neighborsin, IN A LAND OF “ESCAPE FROM NEW YORK”-style anarchy.
SELF-SERVING motives are the best in making folks decide to get a BETTER set of moral values.
That was MY first thought, as well.
We love you, Michelle, and pray for you and your very precious family.
I know what keeps you up is what keeps me up, too.
All my prayers for you, and I hope you get some rest. Take care of yourself, your family needs you, too.
God bless you,
-Rose
From Texas, near the border
.. and Bush wants them to do ‘jobs Americans won’t do’. What a crock of a president. America will pay a price for electing this cheap, corrupt and timid sell-out. Then again, Clinton did selling out of his own: http://www.blessedcause.org/proof/Clinton%20Embracing%20Islam%20selling%20out%20children.htm
Good Luck, America.
That is truly good news. And with this good news, I’m going to bed, possibly sleeping just a little easier
Ombre Rose,
Well, that’s an opinion.
Ombre Rose,
PS, I’m still waiting for you, hours later, to answer the question on post #65 from the Saturday Night Politics thread. Let’s keep it simple. Just a yes or no response, please.
Jeez, about time you came up with some good news, MM. Lately, the news on this site has been depressing the hell out of me
(Ending “blame the messager” sequence in 3… 2… 1…. )
Seriously, though: Sanctions against employers and landlords is a good start. English only is the next step.
As one that deals with this situation on a daily basis, unlike many in this country, I am glad I live in a state where we are trying to do something about it.
Arizona’s employer law is working … period. So far it has survived 3 court hearings and has forced many illegals to leave because they have come to realize that it is not getting thrown out by the courts.
Enforce these types of laws and make it illegal to aid them in any way and much of the problem will solve itself.
English only is a good start … but the next thing we have to make Congress tackle is clarifying the 14th amendment to end the “anchor baby” laws. There are many cases here of pregnant women being within weeks of their due dates coming across the border specifically for the purpose of having their baby born in the USA and being a US Citizen, which they then use as a means of fighting being deported.
If you aren’t that familiar with this amendment you can read it here:
14th Amendment
Section 1 needs to be updated to show that the automatic US citizenship is limited to those children born to legal residents.
Another alternative might be to allow those children that are born within this country to non-citizens to apply for US citizenship once they turn 18.
This would be done through INS offices requiring their US birth certificate as verification. It would be an expedited process but would still require all the normal INS criminal background checks and so forth.
Section 5 gives Congress the right to pass laws to modify this amendment.
These are just a couple of ideas, and I am sure there are many more out there, but no matter what we must fix this loophole in our laws.
Good news indeed. I hope Hazleton, PA get another chance to protect themselves from the “invasion”.
I’ve made some non-lawyerly progress in reading Judge Webber’s ruling http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/immigration/files/gray_13108.pdf
As I get it, Valley Park constructed their ordinance to
1) regulate only business licenses, which have always been a progative of local government.
2) use the immigration status used by the Federal powers that be –
in other words, Valley Park did not ‘define’ illegal alien but let the Federal government do so.
3) included an instant escape from enforcement (loss of biz license or a fine) if businesses screened employees using a Federal program before any enforcement action
3) promised restoration of the business license within 1 day after correction of status
4) would not consider any complaint that was based upon race or nationality.
I won’t matter, McCain, Obama, Hillary. All have the same social agenda for immigration: “comprehensive immigration reform.” Code speak for amnesty and open borders.
Judges have to live with the consequences of illegal immigration too.
I’m not talking about cheap landscaping and nannies, either.
Judge Wake’s upholding the Arizona law.
http://www.azd.uscourts.gov/azd/courtopinions.nsf/1184BA444292555C072573E9000117A3/file/07-2496-175.pdf?openelement
This is certainly good news & I think it is a sign of things to come… “Judge Payne said the immigrants should not be able to bring their claims to court because they were living in the country in violation of the law.”… Now that sets a precedent.
I predict we will see the states stepping up more & more to do the jobs the federal government won’t do…
just like the founders intended.
This is great news,the downside is they are pouring into Texas.Its hard enough to get a fence built on the southern border,I dont think we can build one around the entire state.It is nice to hear some good news for a change.
My daughter lives in Oklahoma, next door to where she lived, were some people who couldn’t speak english in fact they kept getting signs from the city, to mow their lawn, my son in law tried to explain to them, what the sign read. He just mowed their front yard…now they had kids, school age kids but my daughter said, they didn’t go to school and you only saw them outside after dark…this is the American Dream? It appeared the bread winner in the house was somekind of truck driver or something so seldom home. After 1804 went into effect they moved. I hope where ever they went those kids are finally in school. My family wants a humane immigration system not one that allows the above to take place.
On the argument no one will take the jobs being left open, the jobs are being filled in Oklahoma by Americans and Legal Residents “Green Card Holders” For a decent wage.
docflash,
I live in Oklahoma, sorry about the influx of illegals. Really glad they’re leaving us, though.
On their own!
Without teams of police escorting them!
How ’bout that?
Is Texas contemplating a law like ours?
There is no real accounting of just how much taxpayer money this is going to save.
It will be interesting, down the road to see the positive impact.
Hope your legislature is paying attention.
Calderon to focus U.S. visit on immigration debate
By Lisa J. Adams
February 10, 2008
MEXICO CITY (AP) — President Felipe Calderon’s first trip to the United States this week is a high-stakes effort to shape the immigration debate during the U.S. presidential race.
Mr. Calderon won’t meet with President Bush or any of his would-be successors, but will make his voice heard in major U.S. cities at a time when both Republican and Democratic candidates are carefully calibrating their positions on hot-button issues such as the border wall, deportations, guest-worker programs and driver’s licenses for illegal aliens.
Many illegal Mexican migrants who have raised families and built careers in the United States are facing a bleak future as federal, state and local governments crack down. And the election year isn’t helping, according to Mr. Calderon, who has accused U.S. presidential candidates of using immigrants as “symbolic hostages in their speeches and strategies.”
“I am especially worried about the growing harassment and frank persecution of Mexicans in the United States in recent days,” Mr. Calderon told Mexico’s migrant assistance agency.
He instructed Mexican consuls across the United States to triple efforts to promote positive contributions of Mexicans north of the border.
“The key is to neutralize this strategy of confrontation and discrimination that forms part of U.S. society’s mistaken perception,” he said.
What Mr. Calderon wants is for the U.S. Congress to allow more Mexicans to live and work legally north of the border. But such reform is politically futile this year, and his visit could backfire if it drives the illegal alien issue back to the forefront. Sen. John McCain, the likely Republican nominee, already must defend himself to conservatives who view him as too liberal on immigration.
On the Democratic side, exit polls showed Hispanics backing Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton by a 2-1 margin in Tuesday’s primaries, even though Sen. Barack Obama, the son of a Kenyan immigrant, was alone in supporting driver’s licenses for illegal aliens. But as both Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Obama look toward the general election, Mr. Calderon’s presence could prompt a hardening of their positions as well.
docflash
The fence is being blocked in many areas by environmentalists (claiming environmental damage to wildlife) and individual property owners along the border (fighting the government over putting the fence on their land) …
There is a pretty good article on that issue in the local newspaper here in Phoenix today …
Border Fence Update
Thanks Michelle for some good news to start the Sunday morning with. I first saw the Arizona good news story on Friday and it is great to see the Oklahoma law is also prevailing.
Things are really starting to come to a head in Idaho we have nothing but problems with the illegal invaders from the Southern border zone due to the agrarian nature of our local industries (diaries, ranches, and farms). All you have to do is read the blotter in the local newspaper and 95% of the folks in trouble with the law have a Spanish surname. We have a large amount of construction going on at our Air Force Base building family housing units and last year we had a major bust finding over 25 illegal workers many with illegal drugs found on their person or in their vehicles. So much for “Force Protection” being a big priority at military installations in a post 9/11 world. Why the contractor did not get fired is beyond me.
The local Paul’s supermarket is loaded with illegal invaders constantly, because they cater to them by allowing money transfers to their home countries. The local Wal-Mart is a little better only seeing most illegal invaders on the weekend. I have quit going to a couple of the local fast food chains due to management having to speak to their employees in Spanish or not being able to communicate with me. Gangs are quickly becoming a problem in neighboring counties and it is a matter of time before they make themselves a problem here too. High School kids and many military wives have trouble finding work because the illegal invaders have all the jobs. Many of the residents of the county are to the point that if the local authorities don’t do something soon they will take care of it themselves. All I hear is how angry and frustrated everyone is with the current situation. It will not take much for the powder keg to blow in our area.
I don’t know how much longer I can work within the system myself. The big agricultural employers in the state shamelessly hire illegal invaders and have most city, county, and state officials in their pockets. I will continue to prod my Congress critters at the state level to draft Arizona and Oklahoma style laws to turn off the jobs magnet. I have pretty much given up on the do nothing Congress in DC and our limited choices for POTUS will do nothing, but reward this illegal behavior with amnesty.
Sorry about the rant folks, but it feels so much better to get it out than keep it bottled up inside.
Desertlover, that’s a good article, but it leaves out the concern that some people on the Texas border have. In Texas, the fence will be built well north of the actual border, because you can’t build it in the floodplain. I know a farmer whose house and farm will be on the WRONG side of the fence! They’ve asked if they can get a little squiggle in the fence, so at least the house will be on the north side, but they haven’t heard back.
I’m glad that Michelle is focusing here on local law enforcement and internal enforcement. Also, kudos to the Feds; Operation Streamline is showing some excellent results in the sectors where it’s being implemented.
I am traveling, and I have to hit the road right now.
Why isn’t there a Congressional Investigation into the attempts of the Mexican government to influence a US Presidential election?
As I recall, it is against the law for a foreign power to attempt to influence US elections. While there are undoubtedly other laws out there, the FEC rules are pretty clear on “contributions and expenditures”:
It is not unreasonable to form the opinion that a “contribution” should include a lobbying tour by a head of state.
Since 1938, there have been strict rules on the disclosures required by individuals lobbying on behalf of foreign entities:
Have groups like Laraza and Mecha made the appropriate registrations and disclosures? I would submit that since they are advocating positions for non US citizens who are legally citizens of a foreign country, those requirements directly apply to them. How much money is contributed to such groups by foreign governments, and both foreign nationals and corporations residing or operating in the US?
And groups like LaRaza unbelievable receive money from the federal government. What percentage of our tax dollars is eventually funneled by these organizations to various political campaigns?
Congress needs to do its job and enforce the laws here. No foreign government should be allowed to influence elections in the United States.
Clamping down on illegals, is a sly way of forcing employers to hire poorly educated, underemployed, Blacks at higher living wages making their lives better. Now thats just disgusting!
I have been asking, for years, how it can be legal to rule for people who are blatantly breaking the law and all I have gotten are mealy mouthed liberal runarounds. Now a Sooner judge, Judge Payne has given me a straight answer, It
is not legal to rule for illegals who are breaking the law.
Also listened once again to McCain’s snake oil salesman, my EX “good friend” Juan.
My husband reminded me this morning that Juan has always had this sliminess,
but that now the friendliness is only a persona, there is something sinister underneath. Let’s just keep the pressure on judges and keep our eyes on the dimms in DC and we could leave our children and grandchildren a better country.
DesertLover post #24 with all the evidence of vast areas of our public lands on the border being destroyed by the pollution of illegal invaders as they enter the country you would think they would want a fence to protect the natural beauty of the desert region. I believe John Muir would slap each and every member of the Sierra Club for their obstruction of defending the natural beauty of our Southern border.
We built the ALCAN highway in 18 months in a very hostile environment and you can expect only 11 miles of inadequate fencing and vehicle barriers in a year. What the hell has happened to American industry? With proper motivation and funding we could build a triple layer fence with vehicle barriers along the entire southern border in less than a year putting the Army Corps of Engineers, Seabee’s, and Red Horse construction teams to work on this project. Just goes to show no one in the Federal Government is willing to protect the border only business as usual. After all wouldn’t it create a lot of jobs for legal American citizens?
Thanks for the link it’s good to know about the news from my birthplace (Phoenix) and the home of my mother in Chandler, AZ.
That is one of the most cognitive statements that has been made for McCain, that is what I’m looking for along with McCains actions. This post expalins why you believe that McCain is worthy of our votes, this is what those who say at this point, they won’t vote for him need to hear, good solid reasons too vote for him.
Boomer
True … and just think … if we put all those military groups on site to build the fence it could be considered “field exercises” … the work would be done cheaper because there would be no private contractors involved … the work would be higher quality … the work would be done sooner … the border crossings would cease in the construction zone … and there would be no harassment from the other side of the border in the areas where they were doing construction …
Sounds like a good plan to me …
What a stunning concept. State laws that enforce Federal Law and The Constitution are actually legal. This will be welcome news. What a difference this will make to tax law, OSHA, consumer protection, the environment, and……oh, wait. This has been the law of the land since 1783.
Typical Americans have been dumbed down to the extend they can’t hardly spell their name as the spittle drools out their face during the commercials of American Idol.
If you doubt me assertion that Americans in general are pathetically ignorant, illiterate, and stupid, just LOOK at how many of them will vote for communists, socialists, and terrorists like the Clinons, Obama HUSSEIN, and John McCain.
Seeing that the only people in America capable of rational thought are conservatives, we must thank conservatives for allowing the USA to become a place where our enemies can enter and roam freely about with no fear.
It’s kind of like Spiderman: With much power comes much responsibility. Conservatives have been irresponsible and grossly negligent by sitting on their hands as our nation rots into Hell. Sure they complain about it, but they have utterly failed to DO anything about it.
What I don’t understand though, considering that OK has gotten
toughsmart on enforcing immigration law; why did Oklahoma go overwhelmingly for McCain on Super Tuesday?These people are driven more by hatred and fear of Conservatives than anything else.
Mr.Conservative Cat#1
Put what you said together with the waving of the white flag against Islamofacism and the destruction of our economy. We cannot assume that after four to eight years of liberal looniness the electorate will come clamoring back.
I hear my state (Indiana) is cracking down on the hiring of illegal immigrants finally.
Yeah, and all the displaced illegals are ending up here in CA.
Wonderful. As IF we don’t already have enough.
Wonder if California might start doing that……..ok you can all stop laughing…seriously.
I have read and heard the propaganda. “The majority of the American people
actually DO want the illegals to be decriminalized and actually DO want them here. Untrue. It does not matter whether it is said by Pelosi or Hernandez or
written by the NYT, it is still untrue. The fact that the citizens of this country
are not being listened to and are so close to being forced to accept 30 million
lawbreakers as brand new citizens can cause some extremely ugly resentment
among the American people. We are being told to sit down and shut up because
we are either too xenophobic or too selfish to let these wonderful people who
are merely looking for a better life, into our midst. We are told that while we
must obey laws, these people can thumb their noses at the law and be rewarded for that same action. If the people that are preaching this to us do
not think that this is a recipe for disaster, then they have their heads firmly
up their collective a**es.
Our ACTION is making a difference.
I just read an excerpt from:
WHERE HAVE ALL THE LEADERS GONE? c.2007
by Lee Iacocca
He promotes ACTION too.
Plus: outrage (as we should be) at the weakness of our “leaders”.
I wish we could. Every chance I get I vote against the liberal machine, including our worthless senators Boxer and Feinstein. They have such a grip on this state, the only thing we can do is wait for them to ether quit or die. And that’s not a guarantee either. Another loony left will probably get elected to push their socialist/communist agenda.
The state government is no better. Bloated with lefty loony dimicrats. It’s the general mindset of this state that’s really too bad. The Republicans are outnumbered and outvoted every single time.
One of our counties is getting its fence. I don’t remember the name but it
is in the form of a repaired modified levee that will at some place(s) reach
18ft high. I can understand why the cities and towns on the border are
fighting the fence because the border between TX and Mexico has always
been rather blurry. People have relatives on both sides. People come from
Mexico to work and shop and then return to sleep in Mexico. People from
this side are used to the things that they can purchase cheaper in Mexico.
BUT…this is no reason to allow unfettered access to this country by those
that have no business being here illegally. We must have a fence. Then we
will have to find a way to protect our TX coastline because you can reach
them by boat. I do realize that we cannot keep every illegal out but we
must do what we can to protect the sovreignity of our country. We cannot just sit down and give it away so that politicians and businessmen will be happy.
How dare a judge use logic in his judgement.
#35 mngirl,
I can’t figure that out either it should have gone for Huckabee. Oklahoma has a strong southern baptist base they think of themselves as southern. It doesn’t make sense as a rule Oklahoma trends Republican. I believe they have a Moderate Democrat for Governor at present.
It might have something to do with McCain’s campaign on the ground in Oklahoma? Huckabee is a populist so McCain is the alternative?
#38 blameamericalast,
My daughter told me we got 150,000. of them, flooding into Texas from Oklahoma.
Texas Rose,
They can still come and go with a fence, they just have to use a moderated gate in the fence so they can enter and leave legally. You know as a rule law abiders, don’t have a problem following the rules, it is the law breakers, that make all the noise.
Thank God for judges like: Neil V. Wake, E. Richard Webber, and James H. Payne. We need more like them. The Democrats are trying to block judges who will strictly interpret the law without putting their liberal (and in some cases, communist) spins on cases. This next election will determine whether we keep our free country or allow unopposed invasion from the south by drug dealers and terrorists including gangs who have no respect for laws nor human lives.
Laree…Did you read the comment the other day where someone has a relative
working for law enforcement in Amarillo, I believe, and he counted AZ tags on
cars coming into TX. Stopped at 10,000. That was just that one highway and
also doesn’t count those coming from OK.
I do know about the gates. Was raised on the border from age 9 to mid teens.
We lived so close that we could sit and watch them wade across the river. Never
could figure out why they were called wetbacks. They never seemed to get wert
above their knees.
Cousin still lives down there and is going to be one of those who will have his
house on the wrong side of the fence. Wife has always wanted a new house
built on a pretty hill farther from the river. Said that’s what he will do and
cannabalize the old house for new outbuildings.
I have talked to both of my sisters. They live in Oklahoma. They both said that they thought that the reason so many voted for McCain is that being next door to
AR, they all know too much about Huckabee and were too afraid of Romney’s
Mormonism to vote for him ( Mitt is the candidate my sisters voted for..don’t know
about brother..he has yet to tell us about his choices in ANY election).
How long before the Feds crush these states actions on the basis that immigration is a Federal concern and under their control? If the states retort that they’re trying to protect themselves from the Feds abrogation of their responsibilities, they’ll be accused of being racists under the “states rights = racism” meme.
I wonder if we’re edging closer to a civil war/Atlas Shrugged situation as more and more producers and law-abiding people start to openly rebel against funding and tolerating a pandering government that seeks to steal the wealth of producers in order to bribe the invaders in exchange for their votes?
I can’t imagine why any federal judge would grant standing to an illegal immigrant in a case that determines our immigration rules. Would we take a bunch of convicted murderers and invite them to interpret the definition of murder and determine the punishment?
If the states retort that they’re trying to protect themselves from the Feds abrogation of their responsibilities, they’ll be accused of being racists under the “states rights = racism” meme.
Let them. It’s about time we put that ugly little meme to bed. We’ve been cowering for decades at the thought of the leftists calling us names.
To mngirl, Laree, and TXRose:
McCain only got 36.6% of the vote to Huckabee’s 33.4% here in Oklahoma, and Huckabee won two of the five congressional districts. Huckabee had been leading here in January, but some of his supporters shifted to Romney because of Rush and other national talk radio hosts saying, “A vote for Huckabee is a vote for McCain.” If Rush and the rest had realized, as NumbersUSA did, that the best stop-McCain choice varied from state to state, McCain might have lost Oklahoma and Missouri.
More on topic: The reason Oklahoma and Arizona’s laws are being upheld is because their authors learned from the earlier decisions and were careful to avoid the same pitfalls.
DirkBelig #51,
“I wonder if we’re edging closer to a civil war/Atlas Shrugged situation” …
If you need to carry a weapon to go out at night you have your answer.
People aren’t going to rebel, simply because it’s too inconvenient for them. As long as the government continues to promise more “so-called” benefits and entitlements, they will mumble complaints but shrug their shoulders and continue with their busy lives.
I am an Okie who favored Thompson and voted for Romney by default..I was surprised that McCain won Oklahoma.. I don’t personally know anyone who admits to voting for him.. I attribute McCains victory to the fact he is the most outspoken in defense of Iraq policy and a latent distrust of Romneys Mormonism.
When our country becomes so overcrowded with illegals and their oh so many
anchor babies and the taxpayers of this country keep getting their taxes raised
to pay for more and more services for these people, then the real unrest will
set in. I don’t know if all of America has the backbone to stand up to them but
there will be those that will. I also know that unrest is really beginning to set
in among some of the Blacks regardless of what the reverend Al has to say
about it.
On February 10th, 2008 at 2:07 am,
It shouldn’t be and can’t be either/or. The stakes are too high for any kind o gamble. We must be 100% behind both. That way if something goes drastically wrong, we have insurance for nothing less than what will eventually prove to be a national catastrophy.
I’m expecting October surprises from the Clinton camp on both McCain and any number of Republican congressional races. This it the moment in history the liberals have been waiting for: Hard-core, true-believer socialists unapologetically running two of the three branches in their ideological mold and in so doing, control the third likewise as well. I’m not sure many people realize how extraordinarily different this election is. It’s everything. We may not win by any idealistic standard, must we must, at almost any cost you can imagine, make sure the liberal Democrats lose, because this year’s group and the world they would fashion is to awful to allow.
Boomer #26
The stand on illegal immigration in Arizona began with proposition 200. Read it here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protect_Arizona_Now.
There is still debate from the helm of Arizona government about how to defeat this law; but I do not personally think it will go anywhere as the opinions of the elected officials are against the electric. If people in Idaho are really as tired of the illegals as you say, they too could start the ball rolling.
Desert Lover: The US military should not build a border wall, the illegals should be interned and buid it.
#61…I just agreed with you on another thread. We must put the GOP in control
of as much of the government as possible. I shudder at the possibility of what
this country could become in less than 10 years if we lose this presidential race
and lose the legislative branch also. Throwing temper tantrums and refusing to
vote for the GOPs candidate or writing something in that no one but election
workers will ever see (so no point will be made) is behaving like what we have
seen ever since 2000. We are more intelligent that they are.
Thanks very much. You know, if as you said that needs to be said more often, and if you go to other blogs (I tried but simply don’t have the time - my work, by necessity, really, occupies me constantly) please feel free to cut and past it wherever it will go.
I very seriously worry about the influence that people like Rush and Coulter are having right now. I have respected them both, and I otherwise love Coulter’s enthusiasm for laying it out squarely on the table, the primary attribute of our host that led me to this site, quite frankly.
But I’ve been under the impression in the last few years that Rush is becoming detached from the very realities he used to juggle and put forth so well. Lifestyle impacts perception, and compared to his earlier days, he’s in a relative cocoon, now. He’s earned it, of course, and a comfortable one it probably is, too. But remarks such as saying that having Hillary as President will be a good thing for the country because it will unite Republicans - knowing, or perhaps not knowing, the unbelievable damage she will do when the first 6 months of her administration are consumed with putting extremist judges into office, opening boarders and signing every piece of liberal legislation Reid and Pelosi can get in her hands - is just insanely irresponsible. Yes, the Republican party needs to unite a bit, no question. But it isn’t such a priority by any measure that we should damage this country so irreparably, literally, for the privilege. And do know Hillary will do it with lightening speed - that’s their method if you’ve watched them: the moment the election is over they do as much far-left things as possible so they can triangulate toward the center by the time anyone begins talking about the next elections - and what they did in the beginning of the term in question is old news.
Coulter’s problem I feel is that while she is a strong advocate of God, she forgets that idolatry is forbidden, and she comes pretty close when it comes to Rush.
No, sitting it out or voting third party is not the answer for immigration, either, even when the almost unbelievable irony of having to vote McCain into office is the only truly realistic solution to what would otherwise be an open-boarders disaster for decades to come.
TX Rose,
That’s it. No one could say it better.
TX Rose,
And it’s worth repeating again:
I remember when I was in Jr. High School and decrying the legislation (I think it was legislated in though it has been a long time) saying that the SCOTUS could refuse to hear cases. I explained that this would allow them to avoid controversial issues or any issues that would not be politically expedient for the party in power. I was chastised for my observation and told that the SCOTUS was and would remain “neutral”. History has shown that I was correct there.
I hope that I am wrong in this instance and perhaps new facts, revelations and perhaps even actions by McCain himself will convince me to change my mind between now and November. I have seen McCain/Feingold which actively violated the Constitutional principles of free speech of We the People … Not only did it pass but it was upheld in those courts. The McCain/Kennedy Shamnesty bill still lives in the minds of enough politicians to make it frighteningly viable and I do not see McCain denouncing Kennedy or Sr. Hernandez despite his “tough talk”.
My personal opinion at the moment is that we have been going down the road first from a Constitutional Republic to the perception at least, of a Democracy. The ultimate end for almost every democracy throughout history has either been a socialist state or a dictatorship. At this point in time I do not see any viable candidates who will return us to a Constitutional Republic based on the rule of law and perhaps that is where my biggest obstacle is.
Sadly, I think we have gone too far down the path to socialism for it to change now. I have been called many things for my “radical” views but I just do not see any real alternative other than one as it was expressed in the Declaration of Independence. I think without a truly Conservative base … maybe with a little bit of Libertarianism tossed in, that this nation will finally be lost either way without a massive restructuring of the government as it currently exists. I also do not see that happening any time soon either.
I understand all too well what the implications of this election are and I share in your passion, your concern and your sliver of hope. McCain does have a relatively good outlook on defense apparently and perhaps in his take on terror. (Though his observations about Gitmo make me wonder about that some) However, when he starts dancing across the political aisles as he has so often in the past, the only way he will be able to pay the political pipers is with compromise. If he only has a couple of points with which he can compromise, it leaves we the people in an equally precarious position.
Again, I hope I am just simply being too pessimistic. However, I think unfortunately, that there really may be no winning choice. I hope I can be convinced I am wrong between now and November but …
(Sorry for the long-winded response)
Wartip,
The reality is that there are really only 2 choices, Republican and Democrat. Anything else, like third-party-voting or sitting it out is voting for the opposition as surely as if you physically pulled the handle for them youself. It isn’t pretty, but that’s where we are. People who talk about voting in good conscience seem to have forgeotten this little, awful reality. Arlington Cemetary is filled with the graves of men who made a tough choice knowing they would die for it, but made the tough choice anyway. In compariason, making a tough choice you simply find unpleasant at the polling booth doesn’t seem all that much to ask.
Yeah, I did my time in the Army and those choices were easy to make in comparison. You are correct in your observations about not voting for one being a vote for the other as well. I am not contesting that but only saying that as far as I can see, even if McCain is the best (only?) choice, the possibility is all too real that this election cycle could still lead us past the point of no return down the slippery slope we have all been traversing. Having to choose the lesser of two evils is still choosing evil no matter which side it falls on.
However, if we cannot make a serious adjustment and bring about a true Conservative movement, I still fear that this country will never be the same without even more drastic measures in the not too distant future. Having served in the Military as did the majority of men in my family, I find that particularly distasteful and unappealing.
Perhaps this national attention will ultimately help us to turn this situation around. Even if we do get a Republican in the White House, we will still only be able to wait and see. That is what bothers me more than anything.
Oklahoma’s James H Payne’s ruling: http://www.tulsaworld.com/webextra/content/2007/pdfs/show_case_doc.pdf
Payne is in stark contrast to the Pennsylvania District Judge:
.
I am living in Oklahoma and am not afraid to say that I voted for John McCain. It was a difficult decision to make because I am both a social and fiscal conservative. I will share with you my thinking on why I voted the way I did. First, I do not believe that either Romney nor Huckabee could win the General Election and frankly, I am not sure that McCain can, but he has a better shot. Secondly, the military plays a big roll in Oklahoma economics and with families making their livlihood from the many facets that are interconnected, I believe that they and I see John McCain as the leader that would continue to fight for a strong military because of his background. His “war hero” status was extremely helpful in this arena as well. As for my feelings for Romney, I find it interesting that many believe his problem here was his “Mormonism.” Many Mormons live in this state and coexist with all other religions well. My problem with Romney was that he was the former Gov. of Massachusetts (one of the most liberal states) and my gut feeling was that he would flip-flop on any decision that would win him an election. I want a Republican to win because I am terrified for our country if Clinton or Obama win and implement socialistic policies that cannot be undone in the future. I fear that my children and grandchildren will suffer under that system and will work to keep that from happening even though McCain is dead wrong on immigration. Also, I am not as afraid that Oklahoma’s new stance on illegal aliens will be damaged by a McCain government, but it surely will under Obama and Clinton. I hope that other conservatives will stop the infighting and start the real war on socialism by defeating any Democratic Nominee. Sorry for so much info.
Wartip<
The matter of degree on any issue is really the deciding factor. Perfection is impossible.
Thanks for your service and I think you have the right idea exactly in the last paragraph. If McCain gets in, we have time to see what lax conservatism has brought us and regroup for ‘08. McCain, of course, will be informed of that and try to stay at least center-right to keep his chance for a second term since he appears to be, like Hillary, essentially power-mad. But that’s okay, it’s a good kind of power-mad, the kind we can use to the benfit of the conservative movement by keeping McCain in line while we organize to find his replacement in 08.
I always feel an obligation to chime in with “YES” to posts like yours because I think it needs to be said loud and often. The stakes are as high this time around as almost any time in this country’s history.
DesertLover #14
Amendment 14, Section. 5: The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.
It doesn’t say “modify,” it says “enforce.” Many Constitutional amendments have the same or similar provision in them (did you know that?) Congress can legislate to ensure the amendment’s provisions are actually in effect–such as ensuring that “[a]ll persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside” (Section 1). They cannot on their own undo it or change it so that it doesn’t apply to everyone in that description. And no, simply because you want it to say something else, doesn’t mean it actually does.
Are illegal aliens indeed “subject to the jurisdiction [of the United States]“? The fact we arrest them or charge/try them with crimes (beyond actually being illegally here) would say yes. The provision seems to refer to “diplomatic immunity”–a child born to diplomats–and similar such things.
Now, the best alternative might be declaring illegals, “enemy invaders,” then treating them as an enemy in war and… Well, you get the idea.
You are right in that this ill-conceived, badly-composed, and frankly harmful amendment is in need of serious revision or repealing. It was pushed into the Constitution by liberal elements (the “Radical Republicans”) as an effort to implement their post-Civil War/War Between the States agenda on America. It was bad enough when written, but conditions have changed to make it worse, and the liberal court system pushes it far beyond how its framers envisioned it, to destroy the fabric of traditional American life in so many areas.
The 14th Amendment is the worst thing to ever (legally) happen to our Constitution.
Hopefully, states will get their act together in time to render Shamnesty ‘09 unnecessary.
Four states and counting!
And maybe with a little bit of support from everyone here, Heath Schuler’s enforcement-only SAVE Act might have a chance. Start FAXing!
Tommygun, if someone wanted to “legally” challenge the 14th amendment, I think they would have a good case. Senate vote was 33-11. 1 senator who voted “nay” was thrown out on a majority vote( you need 3/4). There were 5 abstentions. There were some dubious “ayes” from senators(4) who shouldn’t have been seated. When it came to the states, there weren’t enough votes to ratify (3/4) so Congress used the Reconstruction Act to extort the proper “aye” votes. Many states recinded their approval. Didn’t matter, it “passed” regardless. Congress wanted it, so the Constitution was ignored. Sound familiar?
The 14th Amendment is not the problem. The “re”interpretation of this Amendment by liberal SCOTUS is the problem. Once again, I think that it was just
a bid for votes. So much of what happens in this country seems to come back to
politicians feathering their own nests. Just like lifelong welfare families, politicians
become addicted to sucking at the public teat.
It is good to hear that some level of government is protecting our security. But, it is still sad that the federal government is not doing it, as that is actually their job. *sigh*
TX Rose - I agree. These “careerist” politicians no longer represent their constituencies. It is time, no long past time, that term limits were enforced. Most politicians walk into Congress as middle-class nobodies and walk out rich million celebrities–enough already! No excuses–it’s time to vote out incumbents since they will not ever vote themselves into a term-limited situation! I hear my fellow conservatives saying term limits won’t solve anything, but I refuse to believe that. Unencumbered electioneering instead to working has resulted in the disaster we now have in Congress.
Yikes! I mean, yeah, I guess so…