McCain Estrangement Syndrome; Update: Bauer endorses McCain
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Reader Peter Raymond, a retired US Navy captain, e-mails: “Isn’t it time to help Team McCain with some suggested campaign posters? I’ve attached a few to get the ball rolling.”
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Are you a fellow McCain critic tired of being diagnosed with “McCain Derangement Syndrome” and “dyspepsia?” Andy McCarthy offers some welcome relief. He turns the tables on the anti-anti-McCainiacs with his own diagnosis: McCain Estrangement Syndrome.
Are John McCain’s supporters trying to drive conservatives away from their candidate?
Senator McCain is the inevitable Republican presidential nominee. He is headed, though, for a defeat of McGovernite dimensions if he can’t sway conservatives to get behind his candidacy. For their part, conservatives don’t want McCain, but even less do they want to spend the next four-to-eight years saying “President Obama,” let alone reliving history with another President Clinton.
In short, there are the makings here for a modus vivendi, however grudging. Yet, McCain’s admirers appear to think belittling the senator’s good-faith opponents is the way to go. Theirs is a case of the pot calling the kettle “deranged” — and it will prove duly futile.
Put yourselves in my shoes for a moment. I have not supported Sen. McCain. I admire his perseverance and love of country. Still, I don’t think he is a committed conservative, and his penchant for demonizing all opposition is, to me, extremely off-putting. Protestations to the contrary notwithstanding, there’s nothing delusional about that.
In fact, as between the two of us, it’s McCain’s supporters who are deluding themselves. I take them at their word, for example, that a hallmark of the senator’s politics is his tenacity on matters of principle. Consequently, I am skeptical of his assurances that he would appoint conservative judges who will apply rather than create law. Why? Because he has a recent, determined history of beseeching federal courts to disregard the First Amendment in furtherance of a dubious campaign-finance scheme in which he believes passionately. Conservative judges would (and have) rejected this scheme, just as they would (and have) rejected another signature McCain position: the extension of Geneva Convention protections for jihadists.
Yet, we continue to be belittled:
McCain’s supporters continue to mock thoughtful, good-faith critics as “deranged.” The principal objects of scorn are such conservative talk-radio icons as Rush Limbaugh, Mark Levin, Laura Ingraham, and Sean Hannity. A number of those folks are friends of mine, and, indeed, I appeared on a couple of their programs in the run-up to Super Tuesday. The discussion wasn’t “deranged.” I’m not deranged, and neither are they…There’s a battle on the horizon for the future of conservatism. On one side are those who revere unchanging principles, especially a healthy suspicion of government. On the other are those who would refine old principles under the guise of adapting them to new situations — those apt to see government more as a force for good than a necessary evil.
Sen. McCain runs in the latter circles.
Say it loud. Make some noise. Refuse to be marginalized.
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Related: Read this. And See Dubya’s got some straight-talking McCain campaign bumper stickers.
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Update 11:08am Eastern. Gary Bauer endorses McCain.
More endorsements are meaningless without persuasive action.
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- My God, The Woman Won’t Let It Go! at No Man’s Blog
- McCain Derangement « The McCain Mutiny
- McCain Estrangement Syndrome : BigMouthFrog
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- Suicide Bomber Republicans « THE TYGRRRR EXPRESS
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I am sorry you could not address the questions.
I take ad hominem attack as a surrender on the field of rational discourse.
I wish you good luck. I hope you will review your willingness to vote for Mr. McCain.
What? You don’t react well to blackmail attempts? What’s the world coming to??
Since McCain feels compelled to “reach out” to conservatives, doesn’t indicate that he is not “one of us”? All we are witnessing with all of these “conservative” endorsements are wafflers abandoning the cause to try to salvage their personal “franchises”. We are only now learning who the true believers.
I elaborate on this on my Townhall blog. To read it, google my name.
Rags, a person rationally supports Sen. McCain based on his or her independent thinking and analysis, and your position is that such person should consider “reviewing their values system”? Pretty weak and frankly, pretty damn arrogant.
Please read my posts again.
I did not ask anyone to review their values.
Rather, I asked them to soberly assess the reality of McCain as a match to their values, which I assume are similar to my own if they are conservatives.
I see no arrogance in asking someone to show how they arrive at a considered position, or addressing a challenge to their “sacred cow”.
I know I don’t…
That is how we exchange ideas in a respectful manner.
…seems to me…
Thank you Dakine.
As the cliche goes, with some people it is like trying to teach a pig to sing. It wastes time and annoys the pig.
My decision was one I put much thought into, and I sleep with a clear conscience.
Respectfully,
eric aka the Tygrrrr Express
Frankly, and this will probably anger some people, I don’t think McCain should get anywhere near the Oval Office. The man suffered barbaric torture at the hands of the N. Vietnamese and that leaves a lasting mark on a person’s psyche…. McCain has a hellish temper… do we need that with the world the way it is right now? He holds a grudge and will do whatever he can to go after people who *piss* him off. He is the one that is deranged and nobody like that should ever hold the power that belongs to the President of the United States of America. So, frankly, again, the man scares me. I see very bad things ahead if he becomes President… very, very bad things and I don’t think I even have a full take on what he is capable of… So, there will be no vote from me for McCain… I’d rather have a Dem for four years and then replace them with someone new, level-headed and more capable than John McCain…
On February 11th, 2008 at 3:35 pm, amchristian said:
I’d rather have a Dem for four years and then replace them with someone new, level-headed and more capable than John McCain…
Hmmm, let’s see, what does McCain stand for, based upon his past actions?
1) He believes the government should get more of your money, not less (he voted against the Bush tax cuts)
2) He believes in Global Warming and advocates government controls and regulation to “fix” it, resulting in less freedom for individuals and companies
3) He believes that terrorist non-citizens apprehended as enemy combatants should get the benefit of our court system just like US Citizens and not be under the jurisdiction of the US military who captured them
4) He believes waterboarding is “torture” just like cutting off limbs, poking out eyes, drilling through the skull, blowtorching various body parts, etc.
5) He believes that illegal alien invaders should get special preferential treatment even though they break our immigration laws with impunity
6) He believes that open borders is preferable to “building the g-d fence” and that we couldn’t find Americans to pick lettuce for $50/hour
7) He believes that the “Gang of 14″ was a good idea even though it prevented the Republican majority from finally putting an end to Democrat filibustering of judicial nominations
Gee, what a tough decision for this conservative, whether to vote for him or not! NOT!
If some people can just ignore all that, that’s up to them…
Or, as a wiser man than me said…
“There are none so blind as those who will not see.”
It is sad, really…
Conscious blindness in the name of being “main-steam”.
Well, I *hoping* that we will have a more viable candidate in four years.
No, I don’t want partial birth abortion or even abortion to exist in our nation.
I don’t support Gay Marriage, per se, but some type of legalized union would be fine with me.
I worry more about McCain’s anger managment problem and what that might do to our nation and the world.
I can actually see McCain using a nuclear bomb.
I can actually see McCain taking his chance to *punish* anyone and everyone who opposed him over the past ten years or so. And what form that might take could do irreparable damage to our nation.
John McCain has a serious grudge against Conservatives and I think he will delight in doing all he can to destroy our party if he gets the power to do so.
amchristian#111,
I have the same concerns you and many others have. McCain made me so mad sometimes I wanted to throw things at my TV whenever he came on to explain his idiocy. I did not get to vote for my “guy” as he had dropped out before I could. I voted for Romney hoping he could hang in there and pull things to the right.
Our battle is in the SCOTUS. We may not know exactly what McCain may do but, Hill/Obama would guarantee ultra/liberal justices on the SCOTUS.
amchristian—
The McCain penchant for tantrums predates his prisoner-of-war experience, though I agree that his awful ordeal is likely to have left deep scars on his mind. All other things being equal, however, that would hardly be a bar to his being a good president.
But I see McCain as a classic bully, who uses his temper as a tool of intimidation against others who have the temerity to oppose his wishes.
Likewise, I have seen him use flat-footed lies (i.e., the “black child” myth about how he was misued by President Bush’s campaign).
I find the man’s character deplorable, and agree he is actively dangerous.
I haven’t seen a single good reason why we should not try to get him elected over Hillary or Obama. Not one. Not one. I see a few McCain derangement syndromers (I dislike mcCain intensely for the record) over-analyzing the political landscape so far over their heads it’s both pathetic and funny, I have seen that. I’ve seen people so dead certain about who can win what areas that such nearly mystical foreknowledge would make them the most highly paid political advisors in the world if they would only just quit their day jobs. I’ve seen hate win out over reason.
But I have not seen one good reason why we should simply turn this country over to those who would destroy it for generations to come by signing the most extreme legislation from Pelosi and Reid and then put liberal judges on the bench to defend such legislation for the rest of their lives.
What I’ve seen are angry, irrationally hostile and childishly disappointed people prepared to throw out the baby with the bathwater. I’ve seen un-patriots. To be frank, I see traitors who put their own emotions before reason - their own bitter feelings before the good of the country.
I’ve been a conservative Republican for most of my 50 years. I’ve never seen such supreme childish selfishness from our party before. Such behavior would dampen even Reagan’s enthusiasm for our party and what it can become again with a focus on doing the hard things now, and he, God bless him, was the eternal optomist.
Every one who says they will not vote the republican ticket and put Hillary or Obama into office knowing what the consequences would be for generations to come should be as ashamed as a person can be. But then, as Bennett has said, shame has died. But I never thought I would see it dead in conservatives.
OK, Cat…
please explain…rationally…how McCain carries the South…
the Inter-Mountain West…
the East Coast and West Coast.
Let us start with that simple calculation.
“Could McCain win…?”
Then we will move on to “Should McCain win…??
For the sake of intelligent debate, I will overlook your insults and your own perfidiousness.
Okay, stop projecting your presumed assumptions of who would win and where. I never said he would or would not carry any of it. And if you think you can make that kind of prediction, then by all means quit your day job and start earning six figures as one of the great political strategists of all time.
What I am saying is that he is a better choice than Hillary or McCain. But then you know that’s what I’m saying because you’ve been reading these posts.
Now we can get onto what you yourself have suggested, should he win? I’ve made my case why he should win against Hillary or Obama, so you make your case why Hillary or Obama should win, because sitting out the election or voting third party ensures that. Please leave out “galvanizing conservatives” for future elections because the cost of having lifetime judges appointed to secure the most liberal legislation won’ be worth it. The party needs to stop whining and galvanize itself. It’s called self-reliance and determination, and we used to be proud of those qualities before some of our ilk began whining like children about McCain and the unpleasant choices they face.
Your turn.
Sorry, McCain supporter - but when our Founding Fathers drew the line at infringement on their rights of citizenship at THE STAMP ACT, and went through what they did to stop it at THAT point - and then today, McCain can write and push through a whole series of infringement bills like McCain Feingold, McCain Kennedy Shamnesty, promise a course in SENSITIVITY TRAINING to keep our military from “feeling the need” to be TORTURING MIDDLE EASTERN TERRORISTS, work to get GITMO CLOSED because we are “torturing the prisoners” there, and him trying to get them RIGHTS OF AMERICAN CITIZENS BEFORE AMERICAN CIVILIAN COURTS, etc etc etc etc, ad nauseum, and find that folks IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY are willing to not only forebear stomping those measures into the ground, or removing him from what power he already has THANKS ONLY TO DIMS CROSSOVER VOTING IN HIS STATE, but to raise him to the seat of PRESIDENT of the USA - and proud to do it?
I call it deranged that people would REWARD McCain for McCain Feingold and McCain Kennedy Shamnesty with The Presidency of the USA.
You vote for him if you see fit.
I see no distinguishment between him and Hillary, Hanoi John, or Toady Chappaquiddick Kennnedy, or Bill Vacuum Cleaner Nose Clinton - not one shred.
Problem with your abusive rant is you fail to show why voting for McCain is any improvement at all. Of course, if you could, then you wouldn’t be abusively ranting at us, now would you!
The reason all your rants are limited to “think of the consequences of voting for a Democrat” is because you know well that McCain will surpass them in his achievements of Socialistic filth.
Has Hillary got something on the order of a McCain Feingold or Mccain Kennedy Shamnesty under HER belt?
Or Obama, either?
Is the engineer of getting us David Souter on the Supreme Court working for her as HER Campaign Manager?
Does SHE have Aztlan pusher/financier Jerry Perenchio working for HER?
No.
Did she get elected by the voters of her party’s most loyal opposition???
NO!
McCain has been #1 on EVERY poll of Most Hated Republican Politician by GOP VOTERS taken for more than 8 years.
Without exception.
And you try to act as if those who still hate him for all he has backstabbed his own party are the ones with a “problem”, here?
You claim to be a Conservative for 50 years, and this is the worst you have seen “conservative” voters act?
When clearly McCain is so far LEFT of TEDDY KENNEDY and HANOI JOHN it isn’t even funny and “your” party has rejected men far RIGHT of McCAIN, Gerald Ford and Robert Dole - AND WARNED YOU FOR YEARS that if you put McCain up again, you’d get the same.
That is a pathetic attempt at intimidation on your part, Mr. SO-CALLED Conservative Cat.
All I see is a ROARING LION.
And I bet you don’t know enough to even know what I just said to you.
But you are not going to intimidate us, because McCain isn’t worth the ink to print his name on one ballot, and I know what our Founding Fathers would do with the likes of him.
You try intimidation, because you haven’t got ANYTHING OF VALUE to try to entice any voters to his cause with - NOT EVEN HILLARY.
When you see a restaurant holding a gun on passersby trying to FORCE them to come in and eat their steaks because their steaks are “THE BEST IN THE WORLD”, or else they will just beat you up good - that is YOU.
You ain’t got a product.
If we don’t know precisely what McCain would do with the SCOTUS it is because we have decided to be willfully stupid as hell.
The man who is stinking proud of Shamnesty and McCain Feingold isn’t going to pick judges who would be Conservative - they’d have to overturn those bills.
McCain calls himself the most Conservative man running for the Presidency - which requires a brand new Dictionary.
He calls himself the most Ronald Reagan-like - and we all saw the transcript of Ronald Reagan at CPAC 1975 - even though some here would like to paint a Ronald Reagan who bears no ressemblance to his words or to our memories - no matter how badly they have to distort the record to do it.
That requires another kind of brand new dictionary.
The man who has the engineer of David Souter being on the Supreme Court working as his campaign manager, isn’t going to pick someone who would overturn McCain Feingold.
The man who has Jerry Perenchio and Juan Hernandez working on his campaign isn’t going to appoint people who would overturn Shamnesty.
Anyone who votes for McCain will get exactly what they DESERVE.
And a lot they “don’t expect”.
The man who accuses Bush of sliming him in SC in 2000 wehn an investigation at that time totally exonerated Bush AND PROVED THAT NOBODY SLIMED McCAIN AT ALL in 2000 - and McCain still refreshed those charges in January 2008 - AS A REASON HE HAD TO HAVE HIS OWN “TRUTH SQUAD” is not the kind of man to forego using his AUTHORITY to see that whatever he wishes to will go precisely his own way.
The only person who refused to be transparent in those investigations was McCain.
Naturally.
As usual.
Heaven help the person that McCain sees as his PERCEIVED ENEMY in January of 2009.
Because some of us saw what he did in January 2001, out of vengence.
And McCain is NOT “aging gracefully”.
I don’t remember seeing McCain go through a moral test and passing it. Not once.
AMEN!!!
You’re right, of course, Ruth. I can’t stand McCain on any level but that kind of hysterical knee-jerk luncay (with an emphasis on the “jerk” part) about Hitler is irresponsible beyond belief. Even comparing him to Hillary or Obama is absurd (he doesn;t come close by any truly realistic measure).
Part of the problem, it seems to me, that as great as Reagan was (I was an activist for him going into his second term election) and as much as I honestly feel he was hands-down the greatest president of the 20th century (and belongs right up there with Washington and Lincoln, sincerely), Reagan’s legend has grown unrealistically huge and pure. The almost God-like presence that his memory has assumed over conservatives have somewhat blinded some of them to reality. No candidate will ever be good enough, it seems. Duncan Hunter came close it would appear, to satisfy the rabid wing of the Republican party (I don’t mean conservative, I really do mean rabid), but with the vindictives being thrown around by the rabids, to everyone but Hunter and Rush Limbaugh (even Newt) one cannot help but feel certain that even Hunter would say something - some little, harmless self-incrimination - which would lead the rabids to once again be “holding their noses” and decrying the unfairness of the universe. Since’s he’s out of the race people may feel whatever they want, but we’ll never really know.
Anyway, Ruth, be of good cheer. Saner heads will prevail with the help of God and we’ll take this unfortunate circumstance of McCain and turn it into a positive: we’ll keep Hillary and Obama out, hold Sheriff openboarders as hard and fast as we can to our principles and replace him in 4 years with hopefully minimal damage done. Or who knows, Huckabee might take this contest to the comvention and then it’s back to being wide open again, and that includes Romney.
So in the words of Hannity, “let not your heart be troubled”. Just keep “spreading the word” of common sense and if the Republican ticket - and this time it must - the worst that can happen are things likely out of the control of the political arena.
Oh, I love it - it is perfect.
You’re really beginning to sound like someone on the brink of a nervous breakdown. “Abusive Rants?” That term coming from you?! Miss Bludgeon opposing views with CAPS herself?!
In this instance when I say “LOL” I mean it literally. I really am laughing over here. What alien zonkoid gave you a frontal lobotomy when you were abducted?! I really don’t know what else to say when it comes to your apparent feeling that you can read other people’s minds. Say “Hi” to the Ghost of Elvis when you see him. Maybe you could lay a basket of grilled peanut butter sandwiches at his grave as an offering for a better crop of music next year.
Except right now he’s polling at 80 percent among Republicans and 67 percent among conservatives. What do the voices in your head tell you about that?
Actually no, you are the worst, but thanks for thinking of me enough to remember aspects of my personal history. However, the next time you want to make a political prediction, I think it would be safer for you to ask Magic 8-Ball. I have a feeling that between that or the alien mind-reading implants in your head, you’d do alot better with Magic 8-Ball.
I hope you somehow find what you’re looking for, Rose. I really do.
Cat…
Do you read what you write? You are doing everything you have accused others of doing.
You are personally attacking people here, not engaging in debate.
Consider: Rose is “the worst, she is lobotomized, implanted with alien stuff, sees ghosts, etc.
People who have declared they will not vote McCain are “traitors”, even though you admit to having no idea if the man could win the general election.
These are not the writings of a man of rational, well-considered convictions.
If anyone here is on a over-heated rant, I respectfully suggest it is you.
Now, I have stated carefully thought-out reasons I think McCain structurally cannot win a general election.
I have asked you to explain your thinking concerning how he can win. But you punted and went personal.
After all, if you are going to call people who do not adhere to your thinking “traitors”, you kind of need to be able to show how that term is justified. In reality, I mean…
Try again.
Lord help us…we have a choice between two bold liars and a young “nice guy” who is dripping wet behind his rather large ears. The Main Stream and the democrats have the campaign written. Just like Bob Dole John will be so far behind that he will not be news worthy… John really believes the Clinton’s …that with he and Hillary we would have the most “civil” campaign ever. And they might be civil, as long as he remains 20 or more points behind. But just in case he gets a little close they have ready stacks of “authentic” forged documents to accidentally release. John does not expect this. John believes the main stream and the democrats are his friends? He is relying on the MSN and the liberals to elect him….he does not need us, conservatives…..Lord help us ….We have let the Socialists pick the field We are about to abandon the principles that got us to where we are, and try a CHANGE into the unknown…the curse has come home we are going to “be living in interesting times”.
One of McCain’s greatest weaknesses as a candidate is that nobody needs forged documents to hurt him.
There are entire dead forests worth of paper full of stuff HE ACTUALLY DID, SAID, OR PROPOSED.
Again, ONE of the structural, practical, reality-based reasons he CANNOT win.
Think of this–the Dimocrates seem poised to put forward the most divisive person in America as their candidate (since Bill can’t run anymore)…
while the GOP has presumptively selected the most divisive person in its party to offer as Hillary’s opposition.
This process is SO broken, Dude…!!!
Conservative Cat, your arguements are spot on as usual.
You do realize though, that many here are purists and are not capable of understanding that their particular brand of right-leaning conservative values is NOT mainstream in the Republican party. In their minds they ARE the party, and the rest of us are not “true conservatives”… and what can you do with that kind of stubborn, immature, egotistical rationale?
The Republican party has MANY flavors of conservatism, and party moderates as well.
But sadly, leaders of the Christian right are now preaching political propaganda from their pulpits, instead of salvation in Christ. And they’re preaching it with the same fervency of radical Imams that preach the doctrine of jihad in mosques on Fridays. I say this because I’m a Christian, and I’ve seen it myself.
The politicalisation of our churches has been going on for many, many years. It’s dismaying to see such ironclad polarization now, but not surprising. These folks have been taught to believe that they ARE the party, and nothing will dissuade them… even evidence to the contrary.
McCains’ Super Tuesday sweep and impending nomination, in my opinion, are an indication that Republicans are beginning to understand that we MUST have politicians who are capable of bipartisan communication and cooperation on these difficult issues if we are ever going to see political progress. They are just as sick and tired of being dictated to by those on the far-right, as the moderate Democrats are as sick of being shouted down by the liberals on the far-left. Their disgust is reflected in the way that they vote.
It’s now been a week since super Tuesday, but the anti-McCain crowd is still howling. They’re doing so because bloggers like Michelle don’t like it that they’ve been “marginalized” and continue to pound out stubborn discussion threads like this one.
At some point, reason and rationality and a collective sense of priority will come back to the Republican table. Until that time comes, discussions like this one are only an excercise in futility.
You’ve clearly surmised that, which is why now you’re doing cut-and-paste I’d expect ;P.
“Arguments”….????
I find it interesting that really mature, non-egotistical “moderates” can’t tell name-calling rants from the statement of a reasoned argument.
But, given the rest of IrishRose’s self-satisfied diatribe, that level of confusion is not too out of place.
“Conservatism” is a finite set of values. It is not…could not be…stretched to include any damn notion, or “new condition”.
That is like asserting that “marriage” can mean the union of any group of people, animals or things.
Only in a universe where terms have no meaning….
Do you have an example of the communication and cooperation that did not mean “conservatives must give up their principles and not be so rigid in order to get this done”, type of legislation or confirmation?
Wait!
Jack Bauer endorsed McCain?
Hmmm.
Actually, that endorsement kinda makes sense. I mean, neither of them are conservative, but they DO play one on TV.
Works for me.
McCain just passively and actively trashed the Bush conduct of national security, the GWOT, “torture”, and promised global warming treaties and “multi-lateralism” to Der Spiegel…
or, in other words, trashed the U.S. for a European readership.
Yea. He’s the heir of Reagan’s conservative mantle alright…
He makes George Bush look like George Washington.
That Uncle Sam Poster should say..
“Shut Up, Learn Spanish…
and Vote McCain”.
Always. Each person and circumstance is different. No one thing is true for everyone.
Nope. Sorry. read above.
When the debate goes as far as implied proclamations of mind-reading abilities, the rational discourse just breaks down. Get with the real world, Rags. Oh and by the way, since in the past you have made predictions about who will win how and where, I really do hope you quit your day job and start making 7 figures as the world’s greatest political strategist.
Yep, and there is no contradiction between those concepts. You need to start thinking clearly. You scramble subjects and conclusions faster than a mix-master.
Thanks. When I need a diagnosis from an obnoxious, wannabie political election prognosticator in the making, I’ll be sure to ask for your phone number.
Yeah, I know. Go out there and start earning 7 figures for winning Romney’s campaign; he’s only put his on hold, know-it-all.
Let me make this so clear that even you can understand it, Rags: He is more likely to win if we vote for him. That’s something you can do to help determine the outcome of the election. You can support him. You can let everyone know he’s better than Hillary or Obama. For all the millions spent, ultimately that’s how all elections are won in the final analysis.
But again, if you have all the answers and can foretell so conclusively who will win each state though your “carefully thought-out reasons”, go make a million dollars and steer a deserving candidate to victory. In the meantime, don’t quit your day job.
My take is simple and it’s apparent that the problem isn’t that you can’t understand it, it’s that you don’t want to: Keep it simple, Mr I- know-who’s-going-to-win-each-state; We have in all probability two undesirable choices. You choose the better of the two. If you hate the thought, fine, go ahead and hate the thought but do your patriotic duty and vote the one who is better, anyway. If you refuse to do your patriotic duty, you’re no patriot. If you refuse to do it knowing that the consequences will damage the country more than might otherwise be the case, you’re a traitor. Hundreds of thousands of good men, most having barely started life, died to do their duty for the good of the country. They gave up everything. The least you can do is walk into a polling station for five minutes and pull a lever productively.
Get it?
Would you like one more try?
Or is that your last surrender on the field of rational discourse?
On February 12th, 2008 at 7:50 pm, Ragspierre said:
Oh, brother.
You’re wasting your breath, CC.
Ragspierre is not even capable of rational thought, much less rational discourse.
From where I sit, you’re right on the money.
blockquote>On February 12th, 2008 at 10:21 am, Irish Rose said:
Conservative Cat, your arguments are spot on as usual.
Same back at ya.
Well, not to alienate a new friend (;-)
but I’m not sure it matters whether we’re talking mainstream of not. The mainstream has been determined: 80% support McCain and 67% of those who consider themselves conservatives support him. I’m not sure what they mean by “support”. I can’t stand the guy but I don’t live in an angry fantasy world of hostile, inflexible idealism like some of our co-contributors. I’m voting for McCain in the general for the good of the country because that’s my real-life choice. I would never have voted for him in a primary, and while I’d love to see him overturned for Romney at the convention, on the assumption that such a dramatic turn of events does not take place, I’ll vote for him in the general. But you know all that.
That’s true and while it’s nutty and elitist, I could care less, quite frankly. if it makes them happy to be that way, I’m good. BUT….
Depends on the consequences. If they just sit around in their own little world agreeing with each other and hating the world (not that there isn’t alot to dislike that I’d agree with, to be sure), but when they go off and start trying to influence fellow voters to sit out the election, to be unpatriotic, to attack, politically, their own country by allowing hard-core socialists to reshape this nation for generations to come, all for some nutty, bizarre idealistic standard to which even Reagan himself could never measure up, well, then the least we must do, as patriots, is to challenge them. We may change a few minds (a few people on this board have already posted publicly - and very nicely - that I did change their minds, and they will vote the republican ticket, so we already know it’s possible. And each one of them may change a few minds. ultimately, the numbers grow exponentially. That’s what the average citizen can do. I may have a very slight edge from 25 years of professional media experience, but really anyone can do it - and they should.
The extremists - I mean the nuts, the mind-readers, the fortune-telling know-it-alls, the so-angry-they-can’t-get-out-of-their-own-heads-to-do-the-right-thing-even-if-it-distresses-them nuts are unreachable. We know that. They spew bile and drip venom, so they’re easy to spot. But we don’t want spewing vile and dripping venom to become him, to become cool. We no longer want the ultra-extremists in our party to ruin the nation anymore than the socialist democrats.
But I suspect you already know that, Irish. Why? Because you’re here doing the same thing. At least I think so. Is that your motivation? It’s become mine - ever since some off-the-hook loonies started trying to convince others not to vote for McCain and let Hillary take over America (literally)
Of course, Rush and Ann Coulter aren’t helping. All this “Hillary being President will be good for Republicans will galvanize them” stuff knowing what kind of judicial appointments would be made is irresponsible beyond belief. However, if Hillary was President it would galvanize their audiences. Assuming they aren’t stupid or crazy, that seems to be the only conclusion, and it’s sad, but that’s that. We trudge on and find new heroes. Simple.
This is a great point. As a Christian myself it’s distressing. While I understand that, for example, saying abortion is wrong, it is more wrong to hurt the country in a larger sense. You can say, “don’t vote for Republican so and so because they support abortion” Then what happens? A democrat gets into office and you have abortion plus open boarders plus liberal judges plus high taxes ad infinitum. Shooting yourself in the foot. Throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Whatever you want to call it. Hurting people is hurting people, and the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
But the education is interesting. they teach that mostly to each other. That’s where you and I and like-minded people can help.
I’m only half with you on this. Reagan challenged the democrats continually. There is nothing wrong in my mind with partisanship. Indeed, it’s a necessity for a free county, because each party polices the other.(our problem of course is that the media only reports one side). of course Reagan was on good terms with Tip O’Neal, the democrat speaker. The difference is that theirs was a friendly confrontation.
Still, I know what you mean. Reid and pelosi are more in my mind what you’re describing: people who get paid $200,000 year to spend 24/7 trying to beat the opposition. That’s not what we’re electing these guys for.
Well, I’d be polite to the host. People on the same general side can agree to disagree on the details. Compared to the Dems, you, Michelle and I are all on the same page. However, some of the more extreme whining does get tiresome. They attack McCain fairly but when someone attacks them back they cry foul. That’s just BS. Anyone should be able to take it as well as they dish it out. That’s not just politics, that’s the real world.
Uh-uh. I disagree. see above.
Sorta. I’m just short on time.
Do’t worry about rags, Irish. He’s exposed himself for what he is. Still, I’d like to see him make a living with all that knowledge he has of electoral possibilities.
Oh, and Irish - thanks.
The results of yesterday’s Potomac Primary tell the tale…
for anyone who’s not tone deaf.
McCain cannot win.
He is the most divisive man in the (sort of) GOP.
He cannot count on conservative support, because we have never been able to count on him.
Rags,
You have yet to explain why he can’t ein. You continue to “explain it reasonably”, but we have yet to hear an explaination.
And as I always tell you, Ragsy, if you’re so good at predicting who will win what areas of the country and how, as you appear to claim, then by all means quit your day job and start earning 7 figures as the world’s greatest political forecaster.
Funny, I didn’t notice her blogging in ‘96.
Or in ‘76.
I’ve never seen any of those who voted against THOSE GOP candidates have any regrets, either. Since the pattern of those GOP Candidates was not BETTER than that of the Dims who beat them.
I have a clean conscience, and I intend to keep it that way.
Michelle has NOTHING to do with my decision at all. I never in his life considered ever voting for McCain.
I didn’t pass him up in 2000 just because Bush was from Texas.
This year, Rick Perry and Kay Bailey Hutchison side him ferociously, and John Cornyn, whom I used to admire, now endorses McCain as well - they don’t sway me to support McCain THIS year, and neither does the Bush endorsement.
You can quit blaming Michelle for the high traffic these threads continue to receive.
McCain did that all by himself a long time before Blogging came on the scene.
If McCain is so “electable”, then why do folks like you keep on beating up on those who say we will not vote for him. We always said we would not vote for him. This is an old stand on him - nothing NEW HERE.
You knew how we felt before you said he was “electable” - but you act like WE MISLEAD YOU on the issue.
We didn’t.
If he is electable, then you certainly don’t need us any more NOW than when you made that assessment without taking us into consideration at that time.
You look like a Steak House beating up on pedestrians trying to forceably make them come in and sit down and eat your steaks and “You’ll like them OR ELSE!”
Makes them sound “real appetizing”, all right!
Well, DUH!
Exactly why do you think that voting for him is NOT AN OPTION for so many MILLIONS of us.
If he is so electable, then let him depend on the DIMS who got him his CURRENT Senate seat.
When the Arizona GOP CAUCUS THEN UNANIMOUSLY CENSURED HIM???
He is VERY “ELECTABLE”, isn’t he?
Wasn’t he spitting on us when he got named “Mr. Electability”???
What is your problem, now!