The rebirth of shame
ABC News has the story of parents who are actually–gasp–acting like parents and refusing to let their children get away with rotten behavior. They spotlight some creative methods of discipline. Naturally, the self-esteem uber alles crowd is horrified:
After her 8-year-old son acted up in class, a Jacksonville, Fla., mom employed a controversial punishment to teach him a lesson.
Marcia Harvey made her son Roland stand on the sidewalk for three hours with a sign telling the world how he misbehaved in his second-grade class. The sign read, “I was rude to my teacher. I can’t come to school. I am sorry.” The other side read, “I will make good choices.”
Harvey said today on “Good Morning America” that she didn’t want to embarrass her son, but thought a different type of punishment might get the message across. “It was a way of getting his attention and getting him back on track,” Harvey said.
“I want him to be successful in life.”
Many ABCNews.com readers praised Harvey last week for taking a strong stand. One comment read: “It’s refreshing to see parents discipline their children without fear of reprisal.” But the sight of teary-eyed Roland tugged the heart strings of others readers, some of whom said Harvey had taken the punishment too far.
Some experts agree, saying teaching by humiliation does not work. “All it will do is produce more anger and resentment in the child,” said psychologist Jill Hunziker.
Harvey is not the first parent to try this form of discipline. Fed up by her 14-year old daughter’s bad grades, one Oklahoma City mom forced the teen to stand at a busy intersection wearing a sign that promised she would try harder in school.
“I was embarrassed and I think it helped me a lot,” said the daughter, Coretha Henderson. “It helped me realize that I can do better and I need to try harder.”
There’s hope yet.
Anyone else have a similar story? Feel free to share.
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Yes, this is good parenting. Well done to mom. But I’m sure that Child Protection Services will open a file on this ‘abuse’.
The clap-happy, feel-good approach to discipline has infected our schools and our cultures for what – 10, 20 years now?
Here’s a newsflash, Ms. Hunziker: It isn’t working.
Children need structure and disicpline. And – guess what – some behaviors are shameful and those who engage in those behaviors need to feel some of that shame.
Question: How many of you here, when you were in school, did something wrong – were called on the carpet for it in class – and never did it again?
There were a couple of times with me. And whatever it was I did, I never did it again.
Humiliation will not kill a kid. Roland will remember this, and his tears, and behave.
The people critical of this kind of discipline are only upset because parents who take responsibility for their kids are less likely to allow the “village” to raise their children.
Once a presidential candidate got his party’s nomination but thought he could annoy and belittle the party’s base.
He was relentlessly mocked and derided in return and he didn’t raise very much money at all. So he will probably have to tack right in order to bring them back in.
I think you may be on the wrong thread, Dubya.
These experts sound reminiscent of the Dr. Spock ilk that used to tell us not to discipline our children and to let them do what feels good without boundaries. Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t it Dr. Spock’s son who committed suicide later?
Shame and guilt are a definite improvement over physical abuse. Only the pysc crowd are concerned about the ‘mental aspects’ of holding a damn sign.
Sorry Bas***ds.
The ONLY reason I behave when I was a youngster and a teen was the fear of my parents’ wrath and fear of humiliation. Learned this, of course, when I felt my parents’ wrath and when I was humiliated once or twice. It works.
oops – should be “behaved” above.
It’s about time some parents are doing something. Long overdue.
If I’d been rude to one of the Sisters of “No” Mercy, I’d have gotten a ruler across the knuckles and had to stay after school. God knows what my parents would have done!
The way I see it, the child can endure a couple of hours of shame and humiliation now, and learn to do better in school. Or endure several years of shame and humiliation when they flunk out of school.
The Book of Proverbs has several verses that refer to punishing a child.
What this 8 year old learned was that actions have consequences. If the actions are bad, the consequences are bad and, conversely, if the actions are good, the consequences are good.
The liberal approach to discipline, which hasn’t and can’t work, is to disconnect actions from consequences, especially when the actions are bad. (After all, bad consequences can potentially damage self-esteem.
By the way, liberal theology disconnects sin from redemption, and has nothing to offer to confront the evil that exists in the world. Unfortunately, we all live in that world and must have conditional solutions to problems – and those conditional solutions involve both good and bad consequences.
Great idea. I would also like to see John McCain in front of the Capitol holding a sign that says:
I can tell you from working in the justice system that there are far too many parents that provide no structure or discipline for their children.
I keep a list on my office wall titled “How to Raise a Juvenile Delinquent in 12 Easy Lesson“:
1. Begin with infancy to give them everything they want. That way they will grow up believing that the world owes them everything.
2. When they pick up “bad” or “dirty” words, laugh at them. That will make them think it is “cute”. They will then run off and pick up some words that will blow the top of your head off.
3. Never give them any spiritual training, until the age of 21 and then let them decide on their own. By the same logic, never teach them the English language. Maybe when they are old enough, they will decide to speak Bantu.
4. Praise them in their presence to all the neighbors; show how much smarter they are than the neighbors’ children.
5. Avoid the use of the word “wrong”. It may cause them to develop a “guilt complex”. This will prepare them to believe that when they are punished later on for stealing cars or assaulting others that society is “against them” and that they are being “persecuted”.
6. Pick up everything after them: shoes, books, clothes, etc. Do everything for them so they will be experienced at throwing burdens on others.
7. Let them read anything they want. Have no concern whatever for what goes on in their mind. Provide them with Lily cups for their lips, but let their brain drink out of any dirty container for words and ideas.
8. Quarrel frequently in the presence of your children. This way they will be prepared for broken homes later.
9. Give them all the spending money they want. Never require them to earn their own. They should learn that society owes them a living and they should never have to work to support themselves or the next generation of delinquents they may raise.
10. Satisfy all of their cravings for food, drinks, and everything else that has to do with the sense of taste and touch, gratifying every sensual desire. In this way, they can justify stealing from others, raping someone for sexual gratification, using drugs, etc.
11. Take their side against policemen, teachers and neighbors. They are all “prejudiced” against your child.
12. When they get into real trouble, always defend yourself and say, “I never could do anything with that child.”
- Author Unknown
It is scary how many of those behaviors you can and will see in parents today. They must be studying hard to get everything on the list down pat, in case there is a quiz.
My hat goes off to the parents Michelle listed and others trying to find some way to set their children on the straight and narrow path, so they grow up to be productive citizens.
Following the advice of the child-rearing “experts” would no doubt, as with so many other progressive, socialist ideas, merely pour more gasoline onto a blaze (problem/crisis)that the progressives/socialists themselves started and/or worsened.
Anyone know what percentage of psychiatrists/psychologists have emotionally troubled/screwed-up kids, or are themselves emotionally troubled/screwed-up, when compared to the general population?
I remember reading something, either during my internship or residency, that listed the specialty of psychiatry as being the specialty with the highest, or damn near the highest, suicide rate among physicians.
My impression was that this particular specialty selected for such individuals, not that being in the specialty itself caused the suicidal ideation.
‘Course, it was 25-30 years ago that I read this.
Anyone else have any info on this?
I mean, if these are the child-rearing “experts”, we should know about this aspect, no?
Liberals/Secular-Progressives think evil is a relative concept and only depends on how you look at something.
Some experts agree, saying teaching by humiliation does not work. “All it will do is produce more anger and resentment in the child,” said psychologist Jill Hunziker.
The definition of an expert is : “X”, an unknown quantity. “Spirt”, a drip under pressure. That very adequately describes Hunziker.
Hopefully things don’t build up to the where one needs a broadcast news moment like this.
Kids need to make mistakes. They also need guidance and corrections.
My 7 year old and I have “Stupid Time,” so-named by her because after the first Stupid Time exercise she proclaimed, “This is stupid.”
Stupid Time happens when she doesn’t listen. Stupid Time is nothing more than listening practice. I tell her to stand up. She does. I tell her to sit down. She does. We repeat as needed. It’s easy to see why a child (or anyone for that matter) would proclaim this to be “stupid.” However, its effects are painless, immediate, and usually good for a laugh from both parties involved. Stupid Time works. It really gets the point across: mind your parents.
I don’t think kids should be bossed around constantly, but if my wife or I ask her to do something I think she ought to do it. She doesn’t think that the exasperation of Stupid Time is worth blowing my wife or I off.
Shame is a good thing.
As an old Chief Master Sergeant once told me, “pain is a great teacher.”
Last week, we had a state legislator call teenagers who have babies outside of marriage ’sluts’: Lawmaker regrets sluts comment
Of course, he was raked over the coals and apologized.
My first reaction was that it was nice to hear a politician call it like it is. They are sluts, and if you don’t want to be called that, don’t sleep around. and that’s for boys too.
The kids understand how peer pressure works, why don’t the adults? If there was a little more ‘pressure’, maybe there wouldn’t be so many out-of-wedlock births and so much teen sex.
I don’t know, but there are several reasons someone commits suicide, and they don’t necessarily have to do with child-rearing. I knew a girl from a good, loving family who killed herself and it was devistating for all of us.
And while I get the point you were trying to make and agree with it, suicide is too tragic and too drastic an outcome to use as a good example.
Exactly. And, if you don’t do anything of which to be ashamed, shame does not become an issue. It’s all in learning personal responsibility. If parents don’t teach personal responsibility, who will, the school, our government leaders? Riiiiight.
Why is it that news sources always trot out some psychologist as an “expert” anyway? Aren’t parents the real experts when raising their children? Trust me when I (a father of 13 children, 5 of whom have special needs in one degree or another) say that each child is different, and each child’s disciplinary structure needs to vary one from the other.
When parenting, you write your own guidebook. Sadly, people who undermine the effort in an attempt to “help” (government employees, experts, etc.) do more harm than good.
Kudos to parents around the world who take the bold steps to teach their children well.
They should have made him spend his allowance money on carbon-credits. The parents could say how great they are, and th kid could learn what a scam the whole thing is.
I saw an article yesterday about a mother who did the same thing to her 16 yar old son for having stolen a cell phone.While I do feel kind of sorrry for the kid going through such humiliation,I believe that it is much better to teach(as this does)that such misbehaviour isn’t just unacceptable,it is (as Kevin points out),just stupid.
I learned what made my sons “tick.” I knew what punishments would work with
each child. I never needed to spank either of my sons because I made certain
to let each one of them know what was expected of them. Not saying that they
were perfect. They were boys. But they knew that if they got in trouble in
school they were in more trouble at home. They knew to behave in public.
They also knew that it was important to obey the rules even when no one was
watching. Truly, even more important when no one was watching.
Years from now Roland will look back on this and thank his mom. I know I would.
I’d rather shame my kids than spank them, but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do to make them get the point.
Last week my third grade daughter made an inappropriate comment to another kid in her morning latchkey group. My wife and I knew she didn’t really mean what she said, but if the school or YMCA staff think it’s important to address, we address it.
We made her write a note to the other kid apologizing for what she said and I made sure she handed it to the kid personally. She was ashamed of herself and embarrassed, sure, but I bet she doesn’t do it again. Isn’t that what discipline is all about?
There was the mom in Des Moines who sold her son’s car once she found alcohol in it…
We’ve made our kids use their money to replace something they’ve broken/lost or work off the money owed through extra chores. They then go to the store to buy the replacement and hand it to the person it originally belonged to – no leaving it for them to find at their seat at the dinner table or in their bedroom.
The list provided by BarryF says it all. The feel good generation abandoned the discipline and common sense that has led to many of the problems we see in society today. It’s time to care less about being your child’s friend and more about being his/her parent. They are getting the wrong messages all too often from their schools, from the entertainment industry, from the media, from their friends. They need to know that there are limits and that there are consequences to behavior. Every parent should have that list posted where they can see it every day! Hooray for Ms. Harvey!
I remember being made to stand against the wall (behind the yellow line!!!) at recess in grade school. Never did anything that might receive that punishment again.
Russ N – You beat me to it. I live in Iowa and I was just about to dig through the Des Moines Redister site to find that – thanks for saving me the trouble.
Today is my first baby’s 17th birthday. I hated when my father taught me lessons through humility and swore never to repeat that with my child. I rebelled and ran out and had a baby by 18. At 35 I am proud to say that my 17 yo daughter still wears her virginity on her sleeve, is an honor student, works, is honest, and an all around great kid. I did this by arming her with knowledge to make good decisions for herself, being there for her, and punishing bad behavior with humility and corporal punishment as needed instead of making excuses for it. I hated doing it, but I knew every second that it was my job as a parent. I realized that my dad meant it when he said that awful phrase, “This hurts me more than it hurts you” as he popped my butt. My kids laugh at me when I tell them that some day they will understand what I mean when I say that punishing them brings me no joy at all.
FYI-My favorite with my teenage girls is taking away the makeup and hair goop. One look and everyone always knows they are in trouble at home.
A family member’s son kept stealing at school. After the third time he lost Christmas that year. All the other kids had presents and Santa had visited, but he had nothing. It is up to us as parents to teach our kids the right thing. I applaud this mother!!
When I was 17, I crashed my car on the way home after school (single-car accident, no injuries). While the crash was not due to intentional or negligent recklessness, it was my fault nevertheless. The car was still driveable, so I left and went home (and leaving the scene of an accident is a crime). When I got home, after an epic shouting from my father, he made me (and he came along with) drive back to the city my high school is located in and report the accident to the police.
While I was not arrested or charged with reckless driving or leaving the scene of an accident (10- and 12-point offenses, iirc), I was cited for careless driving. This resulted in me going before a municipal court judge for the first time in my life (and probably the most intimidating experience to date at that point). I was given a deferred sentencing on condition of 20 hours community service (which I promptly fulfilled at the town library) and six-months clean driving record.
10 years later, I’d like to think that I am a far more conscientious motorist than I was back then.
I’ve always firmly believed that character is what you do when nobody is watching. And the only way to develop character is through discipline, both internal and external.
When I was in 6th grade, I got in trouble for being disruptive in class (too much talking and horseplay.) My Dad made me write this sentence 1000 times: (yes, I said One thousand!)
“I will not talk and be disruptive in Mr. ______’s Math class because it’s rude.”
(I wasn’t allowed to see any friends, play outside, or go anywhere fun until I finished. I filled up almost 30 sheets of paper, both front and back, and had a sore hand for a week.)
He then set up a time with my teacher to have me read it aloud 100 times in front of the entire class.
The problem was solved, trust me.
If my kid’s start acting up in class, I’ll be going to the local Office Max for a ream of paper.
Failure to hold your children accountable could lead your child(ren) to behave like these young ladies.
They stole money from a 9-year-old Girl Scout, spent it, and were not sorry for what they did. Only angry for being caught. And one of the girls’ father ponied up the $167 they stole.
My husband and I have talked about issues of discipline, and have plan in place for our children as they grow up. We even have a “Nuclear Option” that I hope we never have to use. It consists of stripping a severely misbehaving child of all privileges and everything but the essentials in clothing, food, and bedding.
A former co-worker of mine knew someone who did that when her daughter’s behavior was so out of control they didn’t know what else to do. The girl had her bed, five simple outfits, and food. The rest of her things – including the posters she had hanging on the wall in her room – were taken down and locked in storage. No going out. No telephone. No radio. No television. No Internet access. After a week and a half, the girl’s behavior improved dramatically. And now she’s a responsible, successful adult.
When my son was in third grade he had a problem with cracking jokes at the wrong time (DURING class). His wonderfully patient teacher told me they were usually pretty funny comments, but inappropriate interruptions nonetheless. She began to apologize for the possibility that she had embarrassed him once when she called him on it. I asked ‘did it work?’. She said it certainly seemed to settle him down that day. I gave her permission to embarrass him as she saw fit. It was rapidly no longer an issue. He is still loaded with self-confidence, funny as ever, but knows when to keep his mouth shut in class unless appropriate.
Mr Vibeman
I once had to do 5000 lines for not going to bed on time and had no TV, friend or anything fun privileges until I finished.
I call it progress. The “old ways” do work.
Where is the ACLU when you need them?
I have a capital idea!
In this instance, the parent should be rewarded.
When a child does something wrong, firmly planting the board of education onto their seat of knowledge may also provide similar discouragement from the child reenacting the bad behavior that led to such a result in the first place.
I do agree that a system of rewards must be in place to work side by side and enhance the effectiveness of a system of punishment. Unfortunately, that has been removed as well since the “winners” make the “losers” feel bad about themselves even though it used to make them actually try harder or seek out other areas to participate where they can be the winners?
I doubt we can ever return to the late forties or early fifties but a return to common sense would be a great start.
If there is anyone in Jax, would you extend my thanks to this woman for making a stand?
A couple of examples …
1. In 5th grade I wrote a note to my friend and tried to pass it to her in class. Teacher saw me, and read said note to the entire class. I was MORTIFIED. But from that day forward I passed notes AFTER class, safely in the hall way.
2. High school, 16 years old. I didn’t have my own car but my parents let me take theirs to school some times. Well, one of the very first times me and my friends ditched school. My parents found out (not from the school, but my own stupidity rather) and not only was I grounded for 2 months (and that meant no phone, no driving, no nothing) but I lost all driving priviledges until the new year. It was SEPTEMBER. Those 4 months were a lifetime. But I never did anything like that again. Ever.
I’d agree with this statement, since the only examples that Ms. Hunziker has probably seen were the ones that had kids brought to her. This happens when children are disciplined AND never praised for when they do good. They find themselves never being pleasant in their parents eyes and become bitter.
But if you counter this with equal praise for when they do something right or well then there’s no need for bitterness. They know that bad things reap bad consequences and good things reap good consequences, so there’s no one to blame but themselves.
Speaking of lack of shame. I linked to this through instapundit when it popped up
just now. Don’t tell me that Slick isn’t pimping his daughter.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=4273078&page=1
re above….if you are a superdelegate you can have breakfast with Chelsea
courtesy of dear old Dad. No matter what you are charging whether it is money
or votes it still smells the same.
Oh, another good one … 17 … I was increasingly reclusive and wouldn’t come out of my room. (I am an Air Force brat and we had moved to a new school my senior year. I really, really disliked my parents.)
My dad took the door off the hinges. It was only for a week or so. But it got the point across. And looking back … it probably helped pull me out of my depression earlier, because it forced me to be with people and accept my new reality.
My daughter, who was 10 at the time and at her dad’s for the weekend, stole a tube of flavored lip balm from Walmart. When I found out (she let it slip)I called the manager of the store and arrainged for her to turn herself in.
Let me tell you, Walmart takes shoplifting seriously. While she wasn’t arrested, she was taken to the manager’s office and he gave her a stern talking to. This was after I made her admit to him that she took the balm.
She is banned from that store.
She still talks about the experience and remembers the humiliation and the fear. She swears that she will never ever steal again.
1967 vs. 2007
Scenario: Jeffrey won’t be still in class, disrupts other students.
1967 – Jeffrey sent to office and given a good paddling by the Principal. He returns to class, sits still, and does not disrupt class again.
2007 – Jeffrey is diagnosed with A. D. D. and given huge doses of Ritalin. Be comes a zombie. School gets extra money from State because Jeffrey has a learning disability.
Scenario: Billy breaks a window in his neighbor’s car and his dad gives him a whipping with his belt.
1967 – Billy is more careful next time, grows up normal, goes to college, and becomes a successful businessman.
2007 – Billy’s dad is arrested for child abuse. Billy is placed in foster care and joins a gang. State psychologist convinces Billy’s sister that she remembers being abused herself, and their dad goes to prison. Billy’s Mom has affair with psychologist.
Scenario: Pedro fails English in high school.
1967 – Pedro goes to summer school, passes English, goes to college.
2007 – Pedro’s cause is taken up by state. Newspaper articles appear nationally explaining that teaching English as a requirement for graduation is racist. ACLU files class action lawsuit against state school system and Pedro’s English teacher. English banned from core curriculum. Pedro is given a diploma anyway but ends up mowing lawns for a living because he cannot speak English.
Embarrassment works. Judgement by others is one of the most powerful ways a society has to ensure people live by the rules and laws.
RE #48 – My father in law did the same thing to both my wife and her brother when they went through a snarky, rebellious stage. It cured them.
Catholic school used shame as their primary punishment. I remember plenty of days when the nuns made me or a friend walk around all day with gum stuck on our nose for chewing it in class. Or sit in front of the class for the duration… in the garbage can… because we were “bold articles” for interrupting the class, or laughing behind their backs.
EnglishQueen01 – #38 – we have had to exercise the Nuclear Option – once…
LOL – I stayed away from this thread. So, I now arrive to find;
Zero liberals and/or trolls who want to argue or debate the merits of this issue.
Color me DUH!
God only knows that there’s ALL MATTERS, SHAPES and FORMS of shameful behavior. In fact, you can start with numerous individual elected dolts, fools and idiots. They make ridiculous remarks without rebuke and stand fully unaccountable for their actions. Suffice to say, many of these insipid acts have be commented upon in this and other forums.
Let’s bring shame back into vogue with our politicos! Amen!
A few months ago, I headed to the Circle K convenience store to get a cup of coffee after work. As I walked up to the door, I saw a young lad, maybe seven or eight years old, opening the door for every customer who walked in. When I got closer, I noticed the sign the kid was wearing: “I stole from the Circle K.” I made eye contact and smiled at him as I walked in. I could tell by the look on his face that this would be a lesson long remembered.
As I was standing in line, the mother was chatting with the manager and I told her I thought she was doing a good thing there. I don’t think she cared what I thought, but the conversation made it clear she cared what the kid thought and how he was raised. She made him come in and apologize to the manager in front of the waiting line of customers before leaving. The whole situation gave me hope that it ISN’T as desolate a landscape out there like we are led to believe. I felt good for the rest of that day and thinking about it again, combined with this story, I’m starting to feel that same feeling. Thanks for asking!
Wow, I hope I have enough guts to do something like this when it’s needed. I’m only 7+ years into this “motherhood” business and I still feel like I’m on a tightrope without a net. But we do have boundaries and we do have consequences. That I know, but I’m not perfect and I don’t pretend to be. My son is preparing for the sacrament of Reconciliation. Since I have not been to confession for about 20 years (!) I’m surprised how much it’s changed. Little ones are being taught about “choices” – the easy ones (usually doing what is wrong) erect walls between you and God, the hard ones (doing what’s right) bring you closer. I don’t know how much of this he absorbs at this point, but I hope I’m doing the right thing in building a strong foundation of right vs. wrong.
Humility, embarrassment and shame are emotions sadly lacking in the minds of kids these days. Being judgmental is sadly lacking as well in all of us.
Here’s my story: In junior high school or high school (it was a LONG time ago) I went to a school dance when my parents told me I couldn’t go. Imagine my shame when my father came to the dance, walked across the gym floor with kids scattering in all directions, stopped in front of me and gave me “the look.” Then he turned around and walked out of the gym with me following right behind. I can still feel the shame now.
My wife also did a good job with her son who had been disruptive in class. She told him and the Principal in one of their meetings that the next time he disrupted the class she would come in and sit right behind him in class. Not too many grade school boys want their mother sitting behind them in class.
I often wonder at how many people today seem to have no shame. A certain presidential candidate and her husband come to mind.
#50 On February 11th, 2008 at 4:38 pm, procopy said:
“1967 vs. 2007″
Excellent, outstanding post!
Reminds me of the following (true story):
~ 1940-1941:
Granite’s dad mouths off to a lady teacher.
A coach later meets dad in the gym, asks him if he thinks he’s such a tough guy for mouthing off to a lady, and then gives him a smack.
Once home, dad tells (grand)dad what happened at school…and, of course, grand(dad) gives dad another smack.
Dad served in WWII, got high-school equivalence certificate, worked productively for 30+ years, raised two kids, and is still married (approaching 57 years) to the same gal.
Good thing there essentially weren’t any child-rearing “experts” around back then.
I like how the little guy’s shirt said “stock” cause his stock just went up for sure.
I live in Jax and last week I was discussing this with some teachers at school. We all agreed that we need more parents like this! You would not believe some of the things kids say at school. They have little or no respect for teachers or adults. Someone above mentioned diagnosing some of these children with ADD or ADHD. I think with some people there is a rush to label kids and medicate them. IMO, most of these kids are lacking discipline, love and attention at home. There are always exceptions, of course. I think Mrs. Harvey should win a “Parent of the Year” award.
I remember crossing one of the nicest teachers in high school during my senior year and was given a choice: Either take a three day suspension (hense possibly losing E-3 paygrade in the Navy after school graduation) or come in on saturday after homecoming and clean up the football stadium.
I apologised to the teacher, came in on saturday, cleaned up the stadium for four hours and didn’t back talk another high school teacher.
As a 40 year old college student-diffrent story depending upon whether they are teaching or indoctrinating. If they’re teaching-I listen, if they are indoctrinating-then I ask the straight forward questions that make them look like total socialist trolls with a smile on my face
GSP
I think it’s pretty safe to say this 8 year old’s teacher wasn’t doing any indoctrination. However, I do have a high school freshman who encounters political conversations in one of her classes. It’s very obvious to her what side her teacher is on, but I tell her it’s fine to have a debate as long as it’s done in a respectful way.
I have for so long lamented the fact that people have no shame anymore. My son got into it in one of his college classes when some of the other students could not
understand what Bill Clinton did wrong. When he tried to tell them that this man
is the leader of the free world and should be upright and moral as an example to
the people of this country and to the world. He kept getting the, “but it was only
sex and everyone lies about sex.” (also heard from that paragon of virtue, Geraldo
Rivera) His reply was, no, everyone doesn’t lie about sex. He also tried to point
out that A. the man is married, so sex with other people is out B. the man is
doing this in Our House, which is disrespectful ( Reagan never even removed his
coat when he was working in the Oval Office, feeling that shirtsleeves were
disrespectful) and C. what he was doing was using the power of his office
disrespectfully. Those were only three of his points, he had many more and
made me very proud.
“If you are gonna be stupid, you better be tough.”
-My Dad to me at 9
It worked. The article said something about disciplining your kids without “fear of reprisals”. From whom?
Some porn addict in open-toed shoes from Yale?
Im a psych major and don’t agree with Hunziker one bit. Not all shrinks agree as a matter of fact and you’ll find many aren’t so stuck on the “soft” approach to punishment.
In response to the article/parent…
I quite agree with what this parent did and would do it/have done similar with my own children. And as someone mentioned, its a lot better than beating the heck out of their child, and a lot less demeaning than making a child wear a sigh saying they are “a pig” for eating some brownies they weren’t supposed to have.
I think this was a more positive approach encouraging discipline and responsibility. I recall when our schools would do similar punishment however not by use of signs but putting a “dunce” hat on the child or they would have to stand at the chalkboard with their nose to the board. Its just as effective and most kids didn’t act out again or pulled the same stunt again.
I was in Third grade when they took away school prayer. From then on our public school systems have been under attack by secural humanists.
Every thing secular humanists teach our children is not what G-d told us what to do with our children.
There will be more school shootings, more children giving birth, and more drug abuse, and more individuals growing up not understanding right from wrong.
In the New World Order you do whatever feeeeeelllsss good.
Just wait dispite the kids acceptance of this and most likely any rejection to take it to court the “village” will want action. It’ll go to a review board. But it is nice to see a parent acting like one. Discipline isn’t ment to be nice, its ment to be harsh to a degree and ingrain respect. You ask me something like this would be effective if started early. However on a teen that never got much less than a rebuke by words an no cell for a week it would end in trouble. Then again in singapore they still publicly cane people and it works wonders.
Start early
“Oh, another good one … 17 … I was increasingly reclusive and wouldn’t come out of my room. (I am an Air Force brat and we had moved to a new school my senior year. I really, really disliked my parents.)
My dad took the door off the hinges. It was only for a week or so. But it got the point across. ”
This is slightly off topic, but the door removal trick also works with nonpaying renters: a friend of mine simply took the front door off the apartment he was renting. Told the miscreants that he didn’t have the money to “fix” the door because they didn’t pay their rent.
The rent got paid. The door got “fixed.” I still laugh about it.
Don’t be so sure about that… 4 years ago during the 2004 election my son’s 4th grade teacher (he was only 9 yo) ran a mock election in the classroom. He was the only person that ’stood up for his beliefs’ about supporting the troops in Iraq (his dad’s a Marine… err.. what else would you expect) and he backed a Republican candidate throughout the ‘mock’ process. She was a Kerry supporter from the get go. She yelled and screamed at him about how he could support such horrible things as baby killers. In the end he was the ONLY kid in class who voted against Kerry. She shunned him for the rest of the school year.
Freaking old hippy never did get it. She wanted me to PUNISH him for not agreeing with her. I f’n made him a CAKE. Literally.
I was sooooo glad she retired so my daughter didn’t get stuck with her this year.
Which is especially ironic considering the Democrat’s most important sacrament – abortion.
But, I digress.
Wrong! Dissent is only allowed UNTIL the New World Order. Once these people have their socialist utopia, the dissenters (read: Useful idiots) have historically been the first ones lined up on the firing wall… Quite Literally!
Right on! Punishment does not work without rewards and his actions definitely warranted a reward!
yes it’s all this permissive parenting that has our country in such a pickle.
Yeah, if you don’t discipline them, you end up with a 4-yr old cussing at his mother in the check-out line of the local A&P. He wanted candy, she denied him and the cuss words starting flying from his mouth. Her rebuttal, you ask? “Timmy, don’t say that, that’s not very nice.” If I had said that to my mom. The shopping cart would have been left where it was, we would be out in the parking lot and somebody (me!) would have a red behind.
I was a rather rebellious kid, my childhood was not ideal by any stretch of the imagination. My mom didn’t discipline us because she grew up in a strict household and didn’t want to pass that on to her children. Big mistake. Eventually, I turned out ok (I think!
) but it was a long and arduous road I traveled because of that lack of discipline.
There are boundaries and discipline is a duty that a parent must not shirk. These cute kids turn into adults and how you raise them as kids is paramount to how successful they become later in life. Kudos to the mom in the article for a job well done.
When my son was in 3rd grade, we had gone to the grocery store. My husband was away at the time for training,so the kids decided to buy him a fake rose with a teddy bear glued on top to give him when he came home that weekend. Some of the other roses had little toy aliens glued on top. We bought a few, and went home. When we got home, I noticed that my son had one of the aliens and was playing with it. I realized he had not taken it off of the ones we had just bought, so I asked him where he got it, knowing full well he had stolen it. He admitted to stealing it, so we put our shoes back on and went right back to that store. I talked with the store manager that was there and told him I wanted him to scare my son so he won’t do that ever again. And he did. My son was bawling, scared to death that the police were going to come and arrest him or myself because I was his mom. My daughter (kindergarte at the time) saw the whole thing, and was scared, too. I have never had a problem ever again with my kids stealing.
We always talk about the trees burning and never see the forest on fire. This instance of the anti discipline forces critical of parents who discipline in the “traditional” way of Western civilization, is simply another “tree”. The forest fire is modern liberalism’s assault on western values. And sadly, THEY ARE WINNING AND WINNING BIG! The patriots at the Berkeley campus, shoving the left’s face in the dirt is what will be required; i.e. matching their “protests” with those of our own will be what it takes since the media will only cover a demonstration and the dolts in the voting public think anyone who demonstrates with passion must be right in their views. Chances are that conservatives are too busy working and taking care of their families to participate is such activities. To our own demise!
Monday, 2 13 yr old boys accidentally set fire to the county 4-H pavilion.They were playing with matches waiting on me (the 4-H person) to get there to open up the building. They were dropped off 20 minutes early to an unsupervised, locked building. Instead of pressing charges, my extension coordinator asked the sheriff to “scare” the guys. I asked that they be the ones to call their dads, let the dads know what had happened and ask them to come and have a conversation with us. I think that those phone calls and those conversations were the hardest things that those two have ever had to do. But we also praised the boys since they recognized that the fire was something that they could not handle and they immediately called 911 and owned up to their “stupidity”. It ended up being a very small fire with very little damage because they quickly called.
Since it is a small town, yesterday at school was very hard for those two guys, yet they took the ribbing and humiliation without saying a word. I doubt that those two will ever do something like that again. Yet, they do know that redemption is available. We have not “kicked” them off the archery team (the practice that they were coming to) and they know that no one is “mad” at them.
As the sheriff let them know quite clearly, what they did was arson and they could be spending time in a YDC for what amounted to a 5 sec “brain freeze”. But,sometimes, consequences are humiliating enough to get the point across without the scarring that a “record” can cause.
#73 3Steps
Sorry, I didn’t come back to this thread earlier.
I hear what you’re saying and I’m very sorry that happened to your child. However, in this Jacksonville case, it was strictly a discipline issue. Also being a military family, we move and encounter these types of teachers all the time. My oldest daughter has come home since she was in middle school and told me how she was the only one who “voted” for Bush or that everyone else said they hated Bush. Of course, when she would ask “why”, none of them could give an answer beside ” I don’t know, I just hate him” or ” my parents can’t stand him”. Way to raise those kids to think for themselves! I would have had to give that teacher a swift kick…not literally of course.