Hey, what about our fence? Update: Do your congresscritters know about the Mexico stimulus plan?
Scroll down for updates…
After contacting several congressional staffers yesterday about the $1.4 billion stimulus/border security package for Mexico that I reported on yesterday, I can tell you this:
We’re screwed.
None of the staffers I contacted had even heard of it.
You might want to call them and suggest they get up to speed.
Capitol switchboard number: 202-224-3121.
Meantime, how’s our fence doing? It’s not doing anything. The enviro-zealots continue to stand in the way. Per the Arizona Republic:
The government plans to add 11 miles of border fence in Arizona this year, far fewer than what was built last year.
For months the government has been mum about much of its plans, but details emerged in recently released environmental assessments. Those documents, the first step in fence-building, reveal officials’ plans to add 7 miles of fence east of Nogales and 4 miles along the Colorado River, using a combination of pedestrian fence, vehicle barrier and access road improvements.
The effort is being criticized by two sides.
Environmentalists say the Department of Homeland Security is threatening endangered animals by ignoring environmental laws to build barriers across their habitats.
“I’m really now very concerned about an ecological disaster by blocking off this border,” said Kim Vacariu, western director of the Wildlands Project.
Pro-fence activists, on the other hand, accuse the DHS of backing off its obligations by not building enough pedestrian fencing and not double-layering it.
They say more fence is critical in a state that remains the most active pot- and human-smuggling route on the entire U.S.-Mexican border.
Glenn Spencer, founder of American Border Patrol, says the government cares more about open borders and amnesty for illegal immigrants than building the fence.
“Where the smuggling is really serious, they’re not building anything,” Spencer said.
As for “ecological disaster,” what do you call this?
Flashback, Arizona Daily Star, July 2006…
How about sending Mexico the clean-up bill before offering them a single penny to pay for their border security?
***
Update from reader Brandon:
Thanks to your post yesterday about the Merida Initiative, I called both of my Senators and my Rep (in Missouri) this morning, and got pretty much the same reaction as you. The offices of McCaskill and Graves had never heard of it, so I shared a summary of what you’d posted and informed them I would be furious with any support of this action. I also suggested that someone needs to call out the White House, because regardless of party, this is unacceptable.
Kit Bond’s office, however, knew exactly what I was talking about. I’m not sure if Bond is on a committee that is in the picture or what, but he’s clearly got some kind of insider track that the others don’t have.
Just thought you might want to know.
Brandon C.
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Categories: Open Borders Lobby, Southern Border
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Seems to me the border fence is an effort in futility… there is always going to be holes and it will never, ever be fully policed…
I emailed Glenn Beck to talk about this on his show. Is there a way to get get Rush & Lou Dobbs to put it on their shows as well? We must get the word out.
Yeah, sure. Is she NOT concerned with all the trash dumped by illegals and gangsters on the border and the trampling of plants by all the aliens?
If fences cause such ecological disaster, how does she explain this?
It is as long as well listen to the globalists who want to combine the US to support Mexico.
Yeah, why even bother with a border fence? Who cares about national security and illegal immigration? Porous borders never hurt any one country. Welcome to United States of AmeriCanaMexico.
Oh happy day.
Michelle, Michelle, Michelle…
Have you forgotten, my friend, Mexico First!
A fence on the south of us is Futile, it crosses varying Terrian, rivers and natural obsticals. Only the Acient Chinese compleated such a feat, and as I recall from histroy it did not stop the mongolians for long. Insted of building a fence how about we stop protecting Europe and European intrist and bring those boys home and have them guard the border in patrols? Makes sense to me, the europeans are so much richer and so much smarter I’m sure they can amount a defence with its socialist population (UK withstanding).
Lets get together and clean this trash up. We carry it to the boarder and dump it back on Mexicos side. It orignated there and we should return it there. If the Mexicans don’t like it …TOO FRICKEN BAD.
If the government won’t build a wall lets do it ourselves. I am positivce we can get funds raised and volunters to build a wall that will stand and last .
This is unconstitutional. Congress only has enumerated powers to spend not Bush.
My son used to be in the Border Patrol, out of the Tucson sector. Not only were they out-gunned by the illegals, but they were out-lawyered, too. He’s since gone on to a less stressful position in the gummint.
I’m with you!
The hell with Congress.
We need to take action.
Not saying they shouldn’t build one - they should… but the idea it’s going to make much of a difference is a joke…
Why not spend the billions on enforcing existing illegal immigration laws?
Drudge reported on this New York Times story - Hispanics leaving Arizona after recent curbs on illegals… why doesn’t every state do this?
I e-mailed my senators and representatives last night. I haven’t had time to pick up the phone. But, I suspect they don’t read the e-mails but just send out form letters designed in advanceon certain topics. So, I probably need to find time to call their offices too.
… And everyone thought Pat Buchanan was wacky in 1992 when he suggested a fence…
GO PAT GO!
Of course the administration could waive off the enviro zealots but you know, any port in the
stormfence.Also of course our military could close off our southern border but that would be good for an international lawsuit, only Mexico is allowed to militarize borders.
So what if drug smugglers actually require the use of our military because the Mexican military is escorting drugs into our country.
There are priorities I guess.
sausage,
The long and the short of it is: there are many folks including those within the government who do not want to curb illegal immigration. Some states are sanctuary states. We keep harping on the fence being built because we want to prevent more from coming over while the “debate” ensues. We need to build the dang fence to stop the hemorrhaging.
At the rate that OUR fence is being built, 11 miles a year it will take about 188.97 years to complete.
U.S./Mexico border = 3,327km = 2,078 mi.
It seems to me that the only border that is going to be secured is the North American Unions border .
TK-421,
No, fences actually do work. Look at Israel and the Koreas. They work and people are not able to cross these borders. Rivers? You just put a fence on the bank of the river. What other obstacles could there be that you could not place a fence on or next to?
There will never be a secure border - no fence - no patrol. Employer contributors need for cheap labor and democrap leaders wanting ‘motor voters’ overrides stupid citizens.
Jim M,
I think you are about a hairs width from getting banned for that. lol
To use the other side’s favorite word, enforcement has to be “comprehensive”–interior and border.
“Fences? We don’t need no stinking fences.”
Think about this: Jorge Boosh believes a fence will work if it’s built on Mexico’s Southern border. He’s willing to help pay for that, hire more Mexican border guards, etc.
Well, he’s willing to force us to pay for it, anyway. Just as he was delighted to railroad Ramos and Compean on our behalf.
But a fence won’t work between Mexico and the USA?
Amazing that our hypocritical president is more than willing to help Mexico continue its repression of non-Mexicans while throwing our borders wide open to them and everyone else who wants to stop by for a handout and a job formerly done by a US citizen.
The problem starts in the White House, and its roots run deep into Congress.
Time for some serious weed-pulling in D.C.
Yes! Build the damn fence!
But more importantly, states (boarder and non-boarder) need to enforce laws on the books and take away all the incentives that lure these people here in the first place.
It’s quite obvious that Washington can’t follow through with the will of the people.
The power the states have can create a snowball effect of voluntary deportation. No governor would want to see an influx of illegals from an adjacent state if he were to remain lax on enforcement.
We don’t need a fence just line a bunch of these up at the border and use motion and heat sensors.check it out here
I e-mailed the white house expressing my outrage in regards to the Merida Initiative. Not much luck, here is the response.
“On behalf of President Bush, thank you for your correspondence.”
“We appreciate hearing your views and welcome your suggestions.
Due to the large volume of e-mail received, the White House cannot respond to every message.”
Thank you again for taking the time to write.
President Bush
madchef, #26:
Reading too many messages makes Jorge Boosh’s lips get tired.
Newspaper here reported on an increasing influx of illegals from the north as those states crack down on employment of illegals. Law enforcement does work, but everybody need to be consistent. KBH stuck her finger in our eyes by slipping in a provision in the omnibus bill delaying construction of the fence down here, and Perry remains an open-borders advocate. KBH thinks that’ll help her get the Hispanic vote when she runs for governor, but it’s going to lose her a lot of the rest of us if and when people find out. Meanwhile, we still have “sanctuary cities” including Austin and SA that won’t enforce immigration laws.
I would call my Senators, but I’m sure Durbin is one the Moron’s supporting this, and Obama is probably won’t vote (which is also probably a good thing) since he’s too busy in some podunk town talking about how he’s the ‘agent for Change’ in Washington.
I agree this sounds bizarre. But I ask this. Those people coming into Mexico illegally from the south, are they stopping in Mexico?
I don’t think so.
So I have no problem with helping Mexico secure its border, in and of itself, as that also helps us. My problem is helping Mexico at a time when they refuse to do anything at all to assist us with securing our common border, and we aren’t doing it alone.
OMG, Jim,
That sounded just like him…..now I feel sick. The hernandez flu.
John McCain represents more of the same …..status quo…he will continue these traitorous policies of JORGE Bush regardless of what he says to get himself elected. I sill think there is something very fishy about his gaining the candidate slot….I don’t put anything past corporate criminals who are determined to run this country into the ground. By the way if Obama can asssemble thousands of people to hear him speak why can’t the American people get together and march on Washington to say we have had quite enough!!!?
If California, Nevada, New Mexico, and Texas did what Arizona and Oklahoma are doing - restricting employer sanctuary - this problem would solve itself in 6 months.
A fence would help, but it needs to be patroled and employers need to be fined/jailed for this to work.
Removing social services and schooling for illegals would also help resolve the issue.
Radiojoe:I somewhat agree with you in theory,but a better idea,IMO,would be to secure our border,and let Mexico deal with the illegals trying to use Mexico as a route to the U.S.Odds are,Mexico won’t offer them shamnesty.
I read a suggestion to widen the Rio Grande and dam it at spots to do so. Hmmmm $1.4 billion wouldn’t be needed for that, would it? A river 500 feet wide and 50 feet deep? Now THAT’s a plan.
#1 spoken like a true defeatist…have to be a liberal.
TK-421
The Berlin Wall was built to keep people in and prevent their escape from a totalitarian regime.
The double layered security fence in the San Diego Border Patrol region stopped border crossings by 95%. The CBO studied the effectiveness of the border fence idea clear back in the 1980’s and then again in the 1990’s. They concluded it would prevent up to 90% of the current crossings.
It is actually a triple fence when you look at it. The road down the center allows fast access (rated 70mph) minimum by the BP to catch people trying to cross it.
There are now 4-5 million crossing our southern border a year. We could have gotten away with not building a fence, maybe 20 years ago but now there we are being invaded by a foreign country without any legitimate attempts to stop the crossings.
By building the fence, it would send a message to Mexico and the world that we are serious about our sovereignty and our immigration laws.
We should have put our Military on the Border a long time ago. The Mexican Government uses it military to aid the coyotes in bringing people in and to assist the state sponsored drug trade.
This is why the Elite will not build it unless the American people demand their elected representatives do it. They know it will work and do not want a fence to stop the planned invasion of America to create a NAU/SPP by 2010.
Under the NAU plan being implemented by GWB, the border would be moved to Mexico’s southern border since Mexico would be merged with us to create the new Union.
Look at the fence, here.. here.. and here, what they are installing using surplus materials from previous wars will not stop anyone from crossing the border and can easily be removed if the North American Union is allowed to be formed. The 1.2 billion Secure Fence Act of 2006 was passed into law and 700 miles of double layer security fence that was supposed to built 18 months from the time GWB signed it into law in 2006.
Compare the photos above with what was supposed to have been built. The San Diego type Dual layer fence here, here, and here.
DHS has not built any more than 2.5 miles of double layer fence and have only built a total of 64 miles of single layered and vehicle fence since the law went into effect.
The basic problem is corruption, starting at the top with the Coyote-in-Chief George Bush, who is more loyal to the principles of business cronyism and the free flow of Mexican labor across open borders than to the United States.
For him, the War on Terror is for show, as is evident by his stonewalling of border security, but the War on Wages for his frat buddies is for real. This is serious business.
Michelle, good news!
Rush Limbaugh just read from this post on the air before the last break, and plugged this blog. You are so influential, the power must be intoxicating:-}
Bingo! We have ourselves a winner. rightisright, would you like that in pesos or dineros?
Add to the “It Never Ends” category: I heard on my local news station in Tucson yesterday that a group has introduced a proposal to set up a special relationship with Mexico to import workers for Arizona businesses. This is to be a state government program to provide low wage workers from Mexico via an arrangement with the Mexican Embassy. The state would provide work permits for these workers.
Two guys with post hole diggers could build the fence faster than our currant so called leaders are reluctantly building this fence.
They are however working hard to build A North American Union, i.e. GATT, NAFTA, the Security & Prosperity Partnership, the Merida Initiative….
What you need to understand about a fence is that it does not need to stop 100% to be effective.
Militarily, barriers (fences, walls, etc) are used
a) to raise the difficulty of crossing an area (discourages people)
b) to slow crossing an area so mobile forces behind the fence have more time to react
c) channels the opponent into areas where you want them to be - i.e. onto terrain and places where it is easier for you to counter them.
This is why even a 30% of the border being fenced in the right places will have a solid impact on illegal aliens.
The more fence we have in key areas, the more the illegals will be forced to overcome much harder obstacles, or “go around” into more risky areas, resulting in more of them being caught, and less of them trying because its simply too hard. Also, the more fence we have channeling and delying illegals, the more effective the border patrol becomes since they have more reaction time, and less area to cover manually.
So fences make it difficult instead of convenient, make it time consuming instead of quick, make it more risky as they are more likely o be caught.
Internally, enforce the current laws, and require proof of legal residency for employment - and have it verified at the federal level. Prosecute those using forged stolen ID, and prosecute those businesses not obeying the lay as “aiding and abetting” a felony (the ID theft or forgery).
This latter greatly reduces the incentive (reward), while greatly increasing the risks. Combined with raising the difficuklty at the border, you create a situation where illegals have a high risk, high difficulty lower payoff (compared to the low risk, low difficulty system today).
Now why the hell can somone not get up and make that case in Congress?
Its a matter of national security - i.e. military - to secure the borders of the nation. Treat it as such.
Well for one Gabe, the Isreali wall is manned with Armed gun towers with Isreali Machine gun nest and snipers, and it has been breached from time to time by suicide bombers that try and attack the walls Garrison. As to the Korea’s, the North keeps 60% of its Military power right on the thing with a number of Artillery units, Machine guns and Infantry. Its also Significantly smaller than our border by several times over. An unmaned Fence is worthless, to man it to Isreali of Korean levels would mean Millions of men. Hence why I favor roving military partols backed up with helicopters.
In terms of Isreal its a fortress wall only aimed at the west bank, an area the size of Rhode Island. In the Korea’s, the South Koreans don’t want to run north, and the North has enough troops in the area to make a run south a suicide run. Its also the most heavily militarised and armed place on the globe, with more artillery per square mile than the Russian’s managed in WW2. Tens of thousands of land mines and barbwire all over the place. And its the size of South Carolina. To make a border on the south and man it as effect as the above will take at least 10 times the Matiral and men, meaning 10 million men at the lowest to man it.
That ignores the problems of logistics on desert Terrian, and on the Reo Grande US patrol boats on our side of the river would work just as well as a wall. The labor and money will be wasted if not manned, this is not like fencing your yard, this is thousands of miles, from texan swamps and marches, Nevada Deserts and Calafornian mountians. A fence with no one keeping an eye on it will be climbed or dug under. When the Chinese left there wall at below normal levels of guards thats when the Mongols broke it. The wall also does nothing to keep our ports safe, our beaches from being landed on as Cubans do.
In the words of Patton “Fixed defenses are the momuments to the stupidity of man.” They can be gone around. I prefer a mobile defense with fixed positions at key places.
ScottyDog,
Wow, that’s an amazing photographic fence comparison, Dog. Thanks.
Four states already are, and the strategy is working just fine, thank you.
And more states on the way.
Now is the time to do this at the national level by sending a few free FAXes, making calls, etc. for Heath Schuler’s enforcement-only bill.
Mexico manages its Southern border with VIOLENCE.
Our gvt officials do not seem to care about the safety of the U.S. and its citizens RE: our Southern border.
I AM SURPRISED THAT SO MANY ARE SURPRISED about that fact.
Signed,
A Californian who has been in this fray for a long time.
Lots of people I know are going to buy American with the money from the stimulus package. Smith and Wesson is still made here.
Thanks for the descriptions/analysis TK.
Would it help if we charged the fence with electricity?
At a minimum, a double fence with sensors and roving patrols is what’s needed.
And since we are at war and the terrorists are teaming up with Mexican drug runners, towers with machine guns isn’t a bad idea either.
If it were left to me I would only build walls near border town, and five miles on the flanks of each. Low level water ways on the Rio Grande would recive the same with a two mile streach on each side toward deep water. IF able the river walls would have run offs dug to the sides, to creat deep water “trench” Pools. Each section of the wall and border its self would have every mile, or mile and half, watch towers. Equiped with satalite camera’s and a machine gun unit with a 12-16 man squad. Every 20 miles would be a barracks structure with a platoon of men. And at various intrevels behind the border military Battalion staging areas to deal with any problems the tower and Barracks Garrsion could not deal with. The desert area’s would have patrol towers only a mile inland on each side. Trying to man all of it would be expensive.
Have low flying reconisance Aircraft to keep an eye on those area’s and the watch tower zones. Sensors are nice but can be jammed and cost alot. The TV sat cams if turned off alert the nearest platoon and Battalion barracks so that makes a fast reaction AND keeps corruption at bay. As to our ports, I say less money on Cruise Missiles and more on PT boats to patrol the “brown” seas with defensive instillations at each port (SAMS and anti-Ship batteries), and roving patrols in the air and ground on landable beaches.
Course It is better to arrest and then see why they are sneaking over, if its a legit reasson, such as the Vietmanese feeling communist forces and arn’t criminal, I say welcome them. They are in need of help and could not come here other wise. If they are sneaking over for work to send money to the homeland, deport them. If they ever fire at the towers or troops and threaten agressive action bring them down.
But making a gaint electric fence isn’t realistic, given power requirements and given that if one end of the fence was to short out the whole system would fallow. I say also to let the Military man this defensive line. Though in a western nation this amount of militarisation isn’t going to be taken likely.
Your welcome. I live in California/Mexifornia and have watched it turn into a third world shixx hole.
I am trying to do my part in waking up people that the NAU is why our immigration laws are not being enforced before we loose our Constitutional Republic.
Fences are not a 100% guarantee. But to just say fences don’t work seems pretty simplistic - and wrong.
If fences do not work, why are we giving Mexico over a billion dollars of our taxpayer money so they can contruct one on *their* southern border?
If fences don’t work, why do we have one around the White House? Why do we have them around correctional facilities, car and truck lots and other public and private property?
And another rhetorical question - why should I support any crapweasel Congress critter, President Bush or any party that supports this travesty?
No more voting for the so-called “lesser of two evils!” No way, José!
The White house also has members of the Sec. Service and Spec ops behind every Bush and snipers on the roof. People have climbed the fence many a time, only to be taken down a momments later. And for Prisons, they don’t work, Guards on the watch towers that will SHOOT you do. Public property, climbed them all the time myself, never got a word said about it. No one was watching with any sort of power to detain me, if you think they will stop at the fence and just turn around, I want some of what your taking. Car lots, yeah tell that to people in Jail for GTA.
A Fence alone is a false sense of Securitym you need man power to man it, not fancy shamcy electronics that a hooligan can take out or a man with a high powered rifle. And if it takes more than 5 minuets for even a small force to investigate (Small as in 12 men, anything less on a group of 20 border jumpers that are armed will get you killed) it they would have cut it, rammed it, or but, omg ladders up to climb it. We Need a static defense line that is manned, with roving airsupport and ground patrols, this will take half a million men on the Southern Border.
TK-421:
You arguments about fences not being an effective deterrent are total BS.
For example you said;
Before I got into Law Enforcement, I worked briefly in a Maximum Security Prison. While it is true that the guards have orders to shoot to kill if the inmates attempt to breach the fence, what do you think would happen if there was no fence on the perimeter of the prison?
In addition, if may interest you to know that the BP, usually work alone on the southern border and not in teams of 12 men. They arrest groups of 20 or more illegals on a daily basis usually with a single man unit providing back up.
You arguments against building a fence on our southern border defy the facts we do know about the deterrent they provide in general and specifically at the southern border.
As I posted previously, the double layered “Israeli Style” fence installed in the San Diego border region lowered border crossings by 95%.The CBO,Congressional Budget Office, has studied the cost benefit of installing the fence on the Mexican Border and concluded that it would reduce border crossings by 70-80%.
“The fence has produced some improvement in the area, according to a Congressional Research Service report in 2005 that said illegal alien apprehensions along the fence region dropped from 202,000 in 1992 to 9,000 in 2004.”
“Meanwhile, vehicle drive-throughs in the region have fallen from between six to 10 per day before the construction of the fence to four drive-throughs for the entire year of 2004. Crime in San Diego dropped 56.3 percent between 1989 and 2000, according to the FBI Crime Index.”
For you to continue to argue that the fence will not work without installing machine gun nests and having 12 men hit squads defies common sense and in the face of the known facts on the ground.
Okay mister high and mighty, how in the hell will we afoard to build and MAINTIAN A wall of that size and all along the border, the fact no one points out our northern border, which I might add canada allows in a large number of people from Iran and Pakistan is a sign of what seems to be selective Racisim. And show me PROOF that your fence works,and a drop in those caught doesn’t mean that there is less coming. For instance I have you watch one side of a mountian for a year, and count the snow, the next year the snow pattern shifts so the snow you see is less. That doesn’t mean as your logic suggest that there is less snow.
I happen to also have seen police response times, my step father used to work for the school system when I was growing up and when the alarm was set off the alarm dispatch always Called two people, The Police, and Us. Guess who always arived first, even with the same traveling distance? US, by 15 minuets or more. And not a one time event, but several, we started comign armed as we knew, like many are learning that the police arn’t here to protect you, but to clean up the mess afterwards. And most cops I’ve meet have been on the take on one form or another. So my illogical “hitmen” as you but them are stupid eeh? Givin I’ve done my duty and have twice reported on drug stashes with my life on the line, only to recive threats afterwards and the cops never finding anything, Well lets say I’ll trust the army a hell of alot sooner than I will ANY cop or Politition, your all in the same boat to me.
Sorry about the typo’s I just get flusterd with our “brave” men in blue. From Experance I will trust a soldier, even one with a Military Coup well before I will a cop. And besides the Security incidents I have many many other reasons.
TK-421
Have you taken your medication today?
Not all cops are on the take or corrupt but what does all that have to do with a dual layered border fence that would be enforced by the BP?
If you looked at any of my other posts on the proposed border fence you would know it is not a wall even though you keep comparing it to the Berlin Wall.
As for proof, I suggest you do some research by doing a google and look it up yourself. The facts are all over the internet. A good place to start is Duncan Hunter’s website.
After all, you think I am on the take and corrupt so why would you believe anything I post.
Haven’t reall all of the comments so I hope I’m not repeating another post but I would give in to no fence if ALL INCENTIVES were eliminated. No welfare, health care, education, anchor baby citizenship, jobs, etc. Of course, that would require enforcing existing laws and challenging a liberal judge’s ruling every now and then.