The Senate interrogation ban: Roll call vote
This afternoon, the Seante voted to ban waterboarding and other interrogation methods against terror suspects. President Bush has vowed to veto any bill that handcuffs CIA interrogators. Here’s the roll call vote:
The NYT reports:
The Senate voted 51 to 45 on Wednesday afternoon to ban waterboarding and other harsh interrogation methods used by the Central Intelligence Agency against high-level terrorism suspects.
Senate Republicans generally opposed the bill, but several of them also did not want to cast a vote that could be construed as supporting torture, and so were relying on President Bush to make good on a threat to veto legislation limiting C.I.A. interrogation techniques.
The prohibition of harsh interrogation techniques is part of a wider intelligence authorization bill and would restrict all American interrogators to techniques allowed in the Army Field Manual, which bars the use of physical force.
The House approved the bill in December by a vote of 222 to 199, mostly along party lines. Wednesday’s vote in the Senate was also along party lines. All the “no” votes were cast by Republicans, except for those of Senators Joseph I. Lieberman, an independent from Connecticut, and Ben Nelson, Democrat of Nebraska. Five Republicans and Senator Bernard Sanders, independent of Vermont, voted “yes.”
But the White House has long said Mr. Bush will veto the bill, saying it “would prevent the president from taking the lawful actions necessary to protect Americans from attack in wartime.”
Obama and Clinton didn’t bother to show up.
McCain voted no. The nutroots are already making hay of it–you can see the DNC ad forming.
Speaking of torture, did you hear what else they did with the Gitmo detainees? Yeah, Starbucks.
***
More: STACLU ponders the “Backtalk Express.”
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Confederate Yankee
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Did they make them pay full price for their Starbucks coffee? Because that would be torture…
Personally I prefer Dunkin Donuts coffee but thats because I’m a regular man of the people.
Along with the $146 million in rebate funds (LOL), the $1.4 billion for tacos and burritoes, are the tax payers paying for the overpriced starbucks?
These idiots wouldn’t know torture if they were having their fingure nails pulled out with plyers.
What do they think, sitting down and saying pretty please will get these fanatics to talk? I can see Obama and Billery now. Offering tea or coffe across a nice table, while Nancy Pelooza is serving doughnuts asking a terrorist if they are comfortable. Then asking them “please oh please let us kowtow to your fanatisim and oppresive religion. Only kill the conservatives the rest of us will convert.
There is nothing on either of McCain’s web sites, Campaign or Senate, that explains this.
Hmmmm? Is this McCain’s “olive branch” to conservatives?
Okay. They KNOW that waterboarding help PREVENT attacks and helped us with the GWOT.
Might as well let them talk without listening in.
HELL, we might as well buy them plane tickets and give them guns while boarding planes.
If we are going to help them, we might as well do it right.
GOD are these people stupid!!! I see we have dimocraps defending terrorists again.
I have been baiting liberals and trolls all day. They are too coward to respond. I want to hear from you or, in the future, shut the hell up!
I am sure I am not alone.
You’re not alone, Soap. Troll traffic does seem to be down on this one, huh?
The silly democraps still trying to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. What a bunch of spineless idiots.
Don’t quite know what to make of this. I do think it’s suspicious that McCain has been anti-waterboarding, but now casts this vote. I wonder if it’s only because Bush is going to veto it anyway, so he knows it would be a lost vote, but it will make him look good to conservatives. Well, the ones who don’t pay attention anyway.
I am getting very pi$$ed that Clinton and Obama never vote. Way to state how on the fence and unwilling to take a side. How about they attempt the jobs they have now before trying to get a so-called promotion. Not that I want the commies voting, but it is so very arrogant of them.
Good to see my WA gals pull one off for the terrorists. Hey Murray, Cantwell - let’s send them some of our WA apples, too!
-Dino Rossi 08!-
I hope the terrorists pick some of these districts that are against these moves. Perhaps they will change their tune after living through an attack.
I sure hope it’s decaf. You don’t want someone who wants to kill over a cartoon to be awake all night.
When they start serving Red Goat I’ll be annoyed…
Interesting. McCain made it today but couldn’t make it when they were voting on the goodie give-away called the welfare stimulus…
Haha - red goat. I needed that laugh Aloha
At least McCan’t voted on the “right” side of the issue.
But I still think it’s phony.
I think we should treat prisoners with the respect as any regular citizen and ban waterboarding and just open friendly dialog with them and serve cookies…..
ok troll mode off now….
hang em by there privates till they whistle dixie….
Hillary, at least, decided it was more important to campaign in Texas. I listen to a station out of SA for talk radio when I can, and she’s having some sort of function at St. Mary’s University (yeah - a pro-abortion candidate was invited to speak at a Catholic university, but since it isn’t under the control of the diocese, the bishop has no say in the matter…) tonight, and she was in El Paso yesterday.
It should be mandatory to vote on all bills, we have the technology. make them vote unless they are bleeding to death… oh wait, Hillary’s campaign is. Neeeeeevermind.
If Clinton and Obama sit on the fence long enough, don’t they get sore in a very sensitive area?
McCain voted no.
This is extraordinarily good news. He didn’t dodge and he didn’t duck.
As someone who is only voting for him really only because he’s the best of the apparent available options for the general election(looks like Huckabee’s bid to take this to the convention in which case Romney could rise from the ahes via the superdelegates is falling apart) this is exceptional good news.
It could mean anything. It could mean he’s heard us and changed his mind. it could mean he’s heard us and is faking it for votes. It could mean there is something attached to the bill he otherwide objects to. But the important fact above all others is that he voted no.
Let the nutroots make hay of it. personally, I want them to. They’re too blind to see it, but according to the rest of America, they’re on the worng side of this issue. This was inevitable of course, that immediately after praising him so as to ensure he’d get the nomination, they’d try to knock him down, but so what. They’re very good at shooting themselves in the foot. I hope they do it more often.
As for Hillary and Obama, what else is new?
I have many disagreements with Senator John McCain’s votes, stands, and rhetoric of these past 7 years. Yet he has more moral courage in one hair on his head than in all the bodies of the slimeballs at Think Progress and the New York Times have combined.
It is time for Graham to go. Isn’t there a GOP dog catcher in SC that aspires for higher office?
Et tu, Dick Lugar?
As President, I would do whatever it takes to protect the country. To do any less would be a violation of my sacred and legal oath of office. If this means torture, then, under extreme circumstances, I would use it. I doubt any President with a conscience could live with the deaths of tens of thousands of Americans on American soil if he had any chance at stopping it. All of this intellectual discourse is fine for peacetime and makes the Euro-elite feel good, but war has a habit of imposing reality.
To be fair, Senator Graham is on active duty for training with the Army Reserves. He was on his way to duty in Afghanistan when he was asked to attend the EU security conference. That is why he was not present for either this vote or the ones yesterday about amending the FISA.
Drop and give me twenty, sarge. Graham’s an Air Force reserve officer.
That’s right, Graham is a zoomie.
Some members of our Senate: the terrorist’s best friend.
Screw em’ all! (the terrorists and their senate sycophants)
WHY did McCAIN vote “NAY”????? ALL THINGS CONSIDERED????
Someone should be making TONS of hay of it.
He INSPIRES THE VOTE and then CHECKS OUT - so his “RECORD” doesn’t reflect ANTI-MILITARY VOTING????
So he can look like “BIG DADDY WAR HAWK”???
What a D*PS#*T!
“can’t we all just get along?”
as long as you fall in line, kowtow to islam, give your money to mexico, and promise to never ever speak out against the utpian life we will bring to you when mohamid comes back after rapeing yet another child and oppresing someone for their religious beliefs.
MAX SARCASIM.
You know McCain does understand torture. if he voted for waterboarding then think about it. I for one am pleased at his vote. In this case he wants ot protect America.
Well, McCain sure as the Dickens has plenty of D**N GALL, that is bloody clear!
I personally could NEVER vote to put such a #%%#$### in charge of o ur military guys, for one blinking second.
Have any of you military guys that support him because you “think” he is “one of you” - has it ever occurred to you he is the kind to give an order, then if it doesn’t work like HE “THOUGHT” it would, will turn around and PROSECUTE YOU for screwing up his own brilliant plan, and “needlessly causing the death of one innocent civilian”???
Sounds great until y ou go back and look at the MEDIA RECORD and realize there has been NO GREATER OPPONENT of WATERBOARD TORTURE than McCAIN!
But this SENATE VOTE is “FOR THE RECORD” and might make him look bad to the military who are a little too busy to be watching all the MSM “NEWS”.
Yeah, since he is the CHIEF INSTIGATOR OF THE VOTE IN THE FIRST PLACE!
And I am looking at a lot of McCAIN VOTERS on this thread who act like McCain voted “NAY” because he is a WAR HAWK and will prosecute the WAR ON TERROR as it should be done - while ignoring ALL the hard information there is out there that shows TO THE CONTRARY.
JUST HIS ATTEMPT TO SELL THE IDEA TO THE MILITARY BASES - whose votes often make the difference in these Primaries - that those who oppose him are all PACIFISTS. And that anything in the news to the contrary is just quoting him out of context or distorting his record!
See my above posts.
Is it me, or does anyone else here think this debate about so-called “interrogation methods” in the senate is beyond ridiculous? How does this even look to the rest of the world? Especially our enemies?
What has our government come to?
We need rape rooms, too. We can’t handcuff our military and intelligence people in the face of Islamo-fascism. I don’t condone torture, but rape rooms and waterboarding do not produce lasting organ damage or death (usually) and so do not qualify as torture. And the enemy would do worse things than that! They’re real scumbags.
Nanny-gate to the extreme! Only the superior intellilect of the donkey party can save us from ourselves! Apparently, only Senators Lieberman and Nelson (NE) were the only “dumb” asses to vote against this exercise in stupidity.
Solid, sane, level-headed post. Especially considering if McCain becomes the nominee as is likely our only other practical opinion is Hillary or Obama.
Newt had a good observation tonight, and here’s the guy who understands fully the split between conservatism and the Republican Party per se: vote for McCain if he’s the nominee to ensure Hillary or Obama don’t get in and then hold his feet to the fire every second he’s the President. That, too, is a good, sane, level-headed view.
For those of us who have ever taken Red Cross swimming lessons in chlorinated pools, you just cannot imagine what you look like, comparing waterboarding to rape.
Clayton Williams lost the governorship of Texas when he had a landslide lead by comparing riding horseback in the rain in wet clotihing and a wet saddle to rape.
You want to compare a little bit of water up the nose to someone who believes in raping and mutilating, cutting off body parts in the name of ALLAH — to Americans opening up RAPE ROOMS, knowing the muslim rape rooms are used on children and the blood is splattered even on the ceiling?
Wonder who will stand between your home and the defenders of Allah’s name.
WHILE ONLY McCAIN ELEVATED IT TO THE NEED FOR A VOTE BY HIS OWN VOCIFEROUS DENOUNCEMENT OF AMERICAN MILITARY AND THEIR WIDESPREAD “NEED TO TORTURE”.
Rose…yep!
Cute, you snapping up Newt as fast as you did McCain.
I did a search on Newt a couple of weeks ago when I saw him triangulating himself to be Mr. Conservative Top Dog, again.
Wondering what all the talk about “his baggage” was about, by people in the media who love him no end but instantly dismiss the idea of him ever becoming a real, electable GOP leader, again, with the simple comment “too much baggage” - and instantly drop the subject like a hot potato.
NO ELUCIDATION WHATSOEVER.
If HIS background were explored, most folks wouldn’t listen to him as a “Conservative PUNDIT”, much less a viable voice in politics.
And his talk tonight shows he is poising to try to scoop the Conservatives off the GOP party rolls and start a NEW MOVEMENT in a DIFFERENT PARTY.
Out of people who would never vote for a man whose skirts are dirty with both FRAUD AND ADULTERY.
The only thing Newt had more trouble with AS HE VOLUNTARILY EXITED THE SENATE, more than his string of adulterous marriages was fraud conserning lobbying and campaign funds, etc et al.
ANOTHER “CONSERVATIVE” POLITICIAN WITH A MANDATE TO NOT UNDERGO SCRUTINY before he is crowned.
Naturally, the GOP will snap THAT up, too. Just like McCain and Huckabee.
Thank you, right_on! Thank yuh ver’ much! [bows, graciously]
No vote for McCain or Huckabee.
If you guys want full-blown Socialism, don’t expect me to help you moderate the DEGREE to which you get it.
I just don’t see how it would be fair to deprive you of the full monte.
Well, McCain will give you the full monte - I just won’t put MY name on that dotted line for you.
Do like he did for his current Senate seat - GET SOME MORE CROSSOVER DIMS to help you out.
Ombre Rose,
Now you see, there I was minding my own business, being positive, complimenting another poster, nothing negative, and out of nowhere you jump on me like the usual maniac that you are and start doing a bad imitation of Robert Mitchum in Night Of The Hunter. Okay, smartass, you wanna talk? I’ll talk, and no more whining about being “bullied” because if there was ever anyone who was asking for trouble it’s you, big mouth….
No, McCain is a default for me. I’ve always admired Newt, but you’re about to tell me how you know more about political structure and winning conservative values than the former Speaker of the House of Representatives, aren’t you, Ombre? Okay, big-shot, have at it.
I see. And did you yourself come to the conclusion that he was triangulating or are you just choosing really dumb writers to quote from?
Sounds like you, but continue, that’s what you’re good at…
You mean because he had a bad marriage and a girlfriend? Not that that’s great, but did it ever occur to you, as you shake your magic 8-ball for answers, that maybe there is no such thing as a perfect candidate? Did it ever occur to you in that state of divine detachment only the pathologically insane can manage, that we have to make practical choices, because if we don’t the opposition will be happy to do it in our place? Maybe you need to join a junk religious cult somewhere and start doling out the cool-aid. This is real and it’s now and it’s important. If you think that you’ll go to hell by pulling the level for an imperfect candidate, fine, you can stay home or you can draw a picture of Jerry Falwell in orange crayon and stick it in a voting machine if you like. But guess what? If you think I won’t call you out this lunacy when you challenge me by name and put up with your obnoxious, thread-stopping stream-of-consciousness epiphanies, you’ve got another thought coming.
Maybe you’ll get it if it’s put into the handbook that the gray aliens laser-beamed onto the inside of your skull when you were abducted: There is no such thing as a perfect human being, Rose. Christ knew that. He died on the cross to absolve us of the consequences of that fact. He knows we’re not perfect. But he wants us to try to do the right thing. All you rant about is absolute human perfection here and now and to hell with the mortal consequences. It’s an old act. Every tyrant and madman has tried it. Give it up, big-shot.
You’re reading minds again! There ya go! That’s the Ombre Rose I’ve come to know and wish would be locked up until they invent the right meds! Tell me, Rose, who’s going to come in first at the Belmont Stakes? It never hurts to have a little extra spending money.
Just for sh*ts and giggles, what’s “an adulterous marriage”?
I’d like to channel the voices in your head to find out what this means, Rose, so if you could give me the wavelength, I’ll try to tune it in on my Grandfather’s ham radio.
Keep shaking your Magic 8-ball, Rose, until it says, “The answer is uncertain. Try again later.”
Ombre Rose,
Now you see, there I was minding my own business, being positive, complimenting another poster, nothing negative, and out of nowhere you jump on me like the usual maniac that you are and start doing a bad imitation of Robert Mitchum in Night Of The Hunter. Okay, smartass, you wanna talk? I’ll talk, and no more whining about being “bullied” because if there was ever anyone who was asking for trouble it’s you, big mouth….
No, McCain is a default for me. I’ve always admired Newt, but you’re about to tell me how you know more about political structure and winning conservative values than the former Speaker of the House of Representatives, aren’t you, Ombre? Okay, big-shot, have at it.
I see. And did you yourself come to the conclusion that he was triangulating or are you just choosing really dumb writers to quote from?
Sounds like you, but continue, that’s what you’re good at…
You mean because he had a bad marriage and a girlfriend? Not that that’s great, but did it ever occur to you, as you shake your magic 8-ball for answers, that maybe there is no such thing as a perfect candidate? Did it ever occur to you in that state of divine detachment only the pathologically insane can manage, that we have to make practical choices, because if we don’t the opposition will be happy to do it in our place? Maybe you need to join a junk religious cult somewhere and start doling out the cool-aid. This is real and it’s now and it’s important. If you think that you’ll go to hell by pulling the level for an imperfect candidate, fine, you can stay home or you can draw a picture of Jerry Falwell in orange crayon and stick it in a voting machine if you like. But guess what? If you think I won’t call you out this lunacy when you challenge me by name and put up with your obnoxious, thread-stopping stream-of-consciousness epiphanies, you’ve got another thought coming.
Maybe you’ll get it if it’s put into the handbook that the gray aliens laser-beamed onto the inside of your skull when you were abducted: There is no such thing as a perfect human being, Rose. Christ knew that. He died on the cross to absolve us of the consequences of that fact. He knows we’re not perfect. But he wants us to try to do the right thing. All you rant about is absolute human perfection here and now and to hell with the mortal consequences. It’s an old act. Every tyrant and madman has tried it. Give it up, big-shot.
You’re reading minds again! There ya go! That’s the Ombre Rose I’ve come to know and wish would be locked up until they invent the right meds! Tell me, Rose, who’s going to come in first at the Belmont Stakes? It never hurts to have a little extra spending money.
Just for sh*ts and giggles, what’s “an adulterous marriage”?
I’d like to channel the voices in your head to find out what this means, Rose, so if you could give me the wavelength, I’ll try to tune it in on my Grandfather’s ham radio.
Keep shaking your Magic 8-ball, Rose, until it says, “The answer is uncertain. Try again later.”
Apologies for the duplicate post.
I see that for you, personal insults to other posters is much more convenient than a little simple investigation for yourself.
Strange, “Mr. Conservative Cat” - to watch you use the tactics of DIM TROLLS to try to “win folks over” to YOUR POV.
Just to give you a hint you have not earned - when Newt tells folks that Wife #2 is not attractive enough to be the wife of a President, even though those folks already know about his affairs with other women, including Wife #3, a STAFF MEMBER of his, yeah, the marriage has no doubt been in trouble LONG before he started having affairs on her.
Since that was HIS OWN HABIT from his HIGH SCHOOL DAYS, and she herself the mistress that he was with when he broke up marriage #1 - this is seriously his own trouble and of his own making, by the time he has married several of his mistresses with whom he broke up his own previous marriages.
As I said, that seems to be the LEAST of what some pundits WHO LOVE HIS POLITICS AND VIEWS A GREAT DEAL, refer to, discreetly, as “too much baggage”.
This is NOT a man that I will pick as a LEADER for MY political philosophy.
Meanwhile, your trollish behavior towards those who don’t agree with you about the very “electable” McCain is one of the reasons I won’t vote for McCain - since it is only a small dose of the behavior of McCain supoorters - who act exactly like regular DIMS.
NOT IN MY NAME!
NO VOTE FOR McCAIN.
REMEMBER ROBERT DOLE!
In the general election!
I do. If it wasn’t for people like you, he would have won, and we wouldn’t have had, among other things, the highest tax increase in history, the humiliation of the Lewinski scandal, ignoring terrorist activities which led to 9-11 and Vince Foster laying face down in the woods.
You’re hopelessly and pathetically confused on this issue beyond all reason.
Thanks for proving my point.
Tomorrow morning, when the easter bunny shows up to make you a wonderful breakfast of brightly colored eggs, tell him I really enjoyed the talking Beanie and Cecil doll I got when I was four.
Oh, yeah, one last thing….
Don’t call people out by name if you don’t want an arguement. Just ask the magazine clipping of the Shroud of Turan duct-taped to your forehead.
Well, if President Bush vetoes it, the whole thing is mute anyway…just Democrat politics in an election year. They don’t have enough votes to override the veto. Coffeeboard the terrorists in Starbucks.
Cute all the runners stayed out of it. Now they can sway to public opinion on the issue. Snakes in the grass, freakin snakes in the grass.
For The Want Of A Waterboarding A City Was Lost…
In WWII black servicemen largely served in maintenance details in the Pacific, my father included with the Seabees. His crew saw the results and “utensils” Tojo’s Army used to intimidate south sea islanders supporting the allies. Things to pull fingernails out by the roots, stringing a man up by the scrotum, “pumping” boiling oil down ones throat and anus, red-hot needles through the eyes and repeatedly sinking you tied to a weight to the bottom of a lagoon, and let’s not talk about what they did to your wife and kids in front of you. Hardboiled Dad was shook up at this, even beyond the “normal” ravages of war. And to think there are people who equate as “torture” means of interrogation that literally leaves you no worst for wear without a single mark, people who’d sacrifice — yes, SACRIFICE millions because their “principles” don’t want to make a murderous bastard uncomfortable for while sickens me. I don’t want to hear it from McCain (who I’m forced to vote for if I’m to stare in a mirror next year) or anyone who regards waterboarding or ANY means to prevent that horror from happening. I swear, I would go postal on Congress itself if I learned that my family was killed because they had QUALMS about extracting info that could’ve saved them but didn’t want to tweak a poor murderous bastard’s thumb! A million “I’m so sorry that we didn’t foresee this” apologies from the Hill and White House can’t resurrect a single life.
Waterboarding - TORTURE?? GET REAL and check some history!!!
James Greenidge
Queens NY
ummm, Ombre Rose, Newt never was in the Senate. The fact that you couldn’t even get that right gives you no credibility on Newt.
Bingo!!
We make fun of the Starbucks Interrogation Technique (STI), however, our guys are severly limited in the tools they can use to extract information thanks to liberals and spineless RINO’s. Now waterboarding is off the table.
So maybe, you can get more flies with sugar (Starbucks) than you can with vinegar. It’s possible that treating these guys as “buds” they might let their guard down, loosen up and let slip a tid bit or two. Yes, it’s time consuming but it’s still legal - for a while anyway.
On the other hand, if time is a factor, then there is no doubt there will be people who will put their careers and freedom on the line to do what needs to be done to save American lives.
Triple Grande Soy Irish Cream @ 145 degrees.
(starbucks is always too hot, if you ask for at 140-150 you can drink it when you get it)
That should have been SIT rather than STI.
Once again my two ding bat “Republican” senators from Maine voted with the Democrats. Just wonderful !
If I were interested in deciding which of the two democrats were going to be the nominee for president of the US based on their stance on the issues I would have nothing to go on. Do they EVER vote on any important issues?
I agree with other posters here….if you can do your current job, how can you possibly think you deserve a promotion? Not just a little promotion either. You are talking about going from receptionist to CEO here.
if you can’t do your current job
Legislation is rarely a clear cut up or down on a single proposition. As with many pieces of legislation, this bill contains provisions that a member may like and others that the member does not like. A vote in favor or opposed is often a question of whether the member believes, on balance, that the good outweighs the bad or not. Senator McCain has publicly stated the reasons for his no vote. While he is still opposed to waterboarding (a position that I disagree with him on), the bill would also prohibit many other strong interrogation techniques that he supports. On balance, he concluded that the bad outweighed the good and voted against it. Before you start assigning ulterior motives to him, at least take the time to consider his stated reasons.
You know, I really would like to see it come to pass that current office holders have to resign their current position to run for a new office, like POTUS.
McCain, Clinton and Obama are all drawing their full Senate salary to be out campaigning for office, while neglecting the job for which they are getting paid to actually do. I realize this is nothing new and is taken advantage of by both parties to its fullest. But, it isn’t right, no matter who is doing it.
Barry, I agree with you.
But the reason they are not voting (doing their jobs) isn’t due to their busy campaign schedule but the need to not risk alienating potential voters by taking a position. There is plenty of time for them to vote absentee if the desire was there.
Do we really want that type of person in the position of president? Someone unwilling to make a stand for something they believe in regardless who disagrees? I don’t have to agree but I sure respect those type of individuals.
I do not respect any of our choices for this election
Agreed, Ditkaca.
“McCain has been anti-waterboarding, but now casts this vote. I wonder if it’s only because Bush is going to veto it anyway, so he knows it would be a lost vote, but it will make him look good to conservatives.”
Yup, bingo indeed. He feels he can safely speak out of two sides of his mouth. His umbrella plan to protect terrorists from revealing their attack plans against American troops and citizens has long been his trademark. You’ll probably end up paying for the gallons of Starbucks delivered to the army of lawyers McCain wants to give them. Nice perk his good friend John Edwards, though!
I agree with your sentiments totally. very totally.
And since I took years of Red Cross swimming lessons at a Navy base pool built to Olympic specs, I know about water up the nose.
But my conclusion is different than yours. NOBODY on Capital Hill has done MORE to raise the issue of WATERBOARDING AS TORTURE and objecting to it being used against our enemies than has McCAIN, HIMSELF. NOBODY. In fact - all the rest put together haven’t said as much as HE did.
Really neat the way HE pumped it up all this past two or three years, since Abu Ghraib and Gitmo, demanding ACLU-APPROVED citizenship rights for terrorists to be given trials with ALL rights of American citizens before American CIVILIAN COURTS - and really really harping on the necessity to stop the waterboarding AND ALL OTHER TORTURE against our enemies…
I cannot possibly consider voting for McCain - holding my nose or anything else!
I can just see him ending up putting all our soldiers on trial as he no doubt approved and aided the trial of the Border Patrol by Johnny Sutton, while the real criminal and drug smuggling coyote was given amnesty and coached how to testify most effectively.
It smells like a McCain of the McCain Feingold, McCain Kennedy Shamnesty kind of thing for him to do to our soldiers as well as to our Border PAtrol and others assigned to protect our national borders.
Our troops do not deserve to be subjected to such a “Commander in Chief”, as that!
It was SAFE for McCain to vote “NAY” on this bill since he already knew that Bush will veto it. It is also clear such a thing would have NEVER reached the point of being voted on at all, IF NOT FOR HIS INSTIGATION in the first place.
I will not vote for McCain.
That would be the nice polite thing to do, Charlie, if McCain’s duplicitous nature had only started this campaign season, but it has not. It has rather already been “de rigor” for Mr. McCain for some DECADES.
You need to think - he and John Kerry are BEST BUDS - McCain SERIOUSLY considered FOR SOME MONTHS, and Kerry let him drag his heels about it FOR SOME MONTHS, whether McCain would be his VEEP!
AND FIRST CHOICE for it, at that.
They have TONS of issues in common.
Especially military issues - and worked together on the VietCONG treaties of the late 1990’s, TOGETHER - both throwing our MIAS, POWS, and KIAS “under the bus” as McCain personally physically shoved some of their family members, lost his temper and yelled and name called them for trying to get their Veteran issues dealt with and to block the treaties from being used to bury their issues and to remove VITAL cover from our South Vietnamese allies.
If McCain deals with the governments hosting these terrorists the way he does with the VietCONG, TODAY - then he is the LAST man in Washington we need to see become the Commander In Chief and boss of the State Dept.
If a tiny mis-speak like which House of Congress Newt was in is all you need to keep you from investigating for yourself all the other things I said, then you and Newt deserve eachother.
Enjoy!
On February 14th, 2008 at 4:29 am,
Whatever - I see you didn’t dismantle anything I said.
Great argument for McCain. Perfect, in fact.
And he wouldn’t even be proud of you for it - since he doesn’t like waterboarding, and here you wanna duct tape things to my forehead?
tsk tsk tsk.
We see you certainly have his temperament.
Well, Mrs. Conservative Cat and I spent a wonderful Valentines day evening and while it seems a shame to spoil it by meeting the very-obnoxious Ombre Rose on the battlefield of ethics and patriotism, if she’s going to continue this warfare against both me (she struck first is anyone is keeping score) and her country both (yes, her selfish determination to not vote the Republican ticket indeed makes her a traitor to all conservatism and her country knowing what the alternative would be), then I guess I’ll have to dampen the end of my evening for God and Country, After all, who knows who may be reading this. Those on my side have been persuasive in helping some people on this board see the common-sense necessity of voting for McCain in the general, and have even thanked us publicly on the board for it.
It’s a long time between now and November, but considering that our best blood died on the battlefield preserving what selfish, unpatriotic people are prepared to give up in an ideological hissy-fit by allowing Hillary or Obama to become President, fighting the fight here, and winning, isn’t such a bad thing.
So, Ombre, I see you’re back to your mysterious fortune-telling, mind-reading powers. That’s too bad. I thought maybe someone had developed a cure for raging mania. But then, when you’ve been abducted by bigfoot and gray aliens, I suppose your behavior is what’s to be expected.
You mean things like this?
Wow, so much there alone, Ombre!
Since this thread is probably abandoned except a few, I’ll make this brief, you hyper-aggressive, bible-spouting nut job:
1. Asking for forgiveness on “one little mispeak” after the way you’ve conducted yourself is the height of arrogant hubris. The poster is right, and that’s on of a million little misspeaks of which you’ve been guilty. But they don’t each exist in an intellectual vacuum, Ombre. Collectively, they add up to that mindset that the gray alens probably wanted to study you for (give them my regards the next time they beam you up to the mothership, by the way. I understand they have a whole room full of dry erase boards for you to scribble on)
2. Dismantle what you said? I did a very good job, thanks. Your lack of addressing any of my points is probably the best evidence, but people can decide for themselves. You and a few others egging you on (probably liberal shills) won’t agree, but anyone else with a modicum of common sense will.
3. I say you deserve whatever you got on this board because you’re always picking fights and crying foul whenever you get hit back - this last example a good case in point. I call you on it. What’s your dismissive response? “Whatever”. That means this is the way you’d like to play the game, Ombre “KISS MY GRITS BECAUSE I’M A HYPER-AGGRESSIVE, UNCOUTH, OBMOXIOUS LOUD MOUTH” Rose. Fine. You set the rules. let’s play. It’s a long time between now and November, and watching you make “little misspeaks” between now and then will not only be amusing for one and all, but as long as you’re permitted to go nuts on this board someone is going to have to call you out - on your hypocrisy, on your selfish utterly contemptible lack of patriotism, and quite frankly, on your absurd lunacy. Michelle needs no defending from me, but she has a good reputation professionally which was earned and those of us who follow her writings would like to think we have one foot in reality at least. You make her and all of us look like raging, insane nutcases with your endless capital letter rampages against anything and everything about which you find not up to your one personal Biblical perfection. That means you color us thusly to anyone perusing this board casually for the first time. Well, Rose, I am a patriot, and that means defending my ilk so - not on my watch.
Ultimately, my point on the general election is simple and remains constant: If you sit home, if you don’t vote the Republican ticket and allow Hillary or Obama to take control of the country, and the Congress (learn the difference, Rose) is set-up perfectly for them to essentially turn this country into a socialist workers’ paradise, then you are no patriot and you are absolutely and 100% a traitor. Strong term? Boo hoo hoo. Those of us who are true conservatives, not raging nut-jobs like you, know you don’t turn your country over to hard-core socialists and wear the mantle of conservative. Or patriot. Get it straight.
Now, please go back to the regularly scheduled psychotic socio-political magic lantern show being projected on the reverse side of your cranium.
Smith, Snowe, Hagel, Collins, and Lugar voted with the libs. Liberman and (Ben) Nelson voted against the measure. Go figure.