FISA Alert: Will Washington let surveillance law lapse? Update: House GOP walkout
Update 3:20pm Eastern. Ed Morrissey reports on a House GOP walkout.
***
Can the Beltway still be living in a September 10 world? I’ve kept you updated on the latest FISA shenanigans by Democrats who would rather let the nation’s surveillance laws lapse to benefit their presidential candidates than agree to a permanent fix. Andy McCarthy rings the alarm bell on the latest:
I am hearing from several sources that the House is planning to recess on Friday without taking up the Senate bill. That would mean the lapse of our surveillance authority at midnight.
This is a game of roulette with our national security, spearheaded by the Democratic leadership in the House, which is following the lead of the party’s two presidential contenders, Sens. Obama and Clinton. Both of them voted against the emergency authorization last summer, and Obama voted against the Senate bill on Tuesday (Clinton did not bother to vote). Make no mistake. The MoveOn.org crowd is calling the shots on that side of the aisle.
President Bush has to keep pounding this, as does Sen. McCain. This is not politics, folks. For grown-ups, this is life and death.
Not just for grown-ups.
For your children and my children.
Call your Senators (and Congressional Reps!: 202-224-3121.
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» The lad he doth protest too much, part 2
You can mobilize the donkeys for war; but only as long as it’s against Republicans.
Anybody else, and they’re not interested.
Or as Ann Coulter so memorably put it:
“We finally give liberals a war on fundamentalism, and they won’t fight. They would, but it’d put them on the same side as the United States.”
And we should just stay at home in November, let them take the White House and have the next 2-3 Supreme court appointments?!?
I think the donkeycrats are fiddlin’ while
RomeAmerica is burning.I am stuck with the two headed monster it would be futile to call them. Boxer and Feistein are by far the worst Senators in the Country.
#4 On February 14th, 2008 at 12:01 pm, ajmontana said:
“I am stuck with the two headed monster it would be futile to call them. Boxer and Feistein are by far the worst Senators in the Country.”
I don’t know…Kerry and Kennedy also make a pretty monstrous tag-team.
Perhaps a “Texas-style steel-cage death match” could be held between these two pairs for the title of the state with the worst senators?
Wrong. The Democrats approved a two week continuing resolution to allow time to resolve disagreements over details. Republicans refused and here we are. Republicans would rather have a platform to criticize Democrats than to resolve differences and protect the nation.
If only this were true. The Dhimmicrats have been screwing around for months on a no-brainer. Immunity for companies who turn over data for NSA mining? Who’s going to be suing them– the ACLU?
Whatta load of crap.
Wrong, lgm. Go back and read the original article from The Hill. The Democrats are using foot-dragging as a tactic.
They are clearly on the side of those who wish to kill us. No wire taps. No waterboarding. No recruiting solders.
God forbid that the day ever comes when 2 or 3 U.S. cities are vaporized in mushroom clouds. The left will cry loud and clear, ” It’s Bush’s fault!”
When they took their oath of office what country did they swear allegiance to?
lgm#6 You can’t get away with that here. There are to many legitimate sources that put it in proper perspective. Conyers is the chairman of the House judiciary comm. He is holding up the retroactive protection for the communications corps. Gee, I wonder why?
If I were Prez, would it change anything I did? No. There’s a war on.
i am tired of the overlords (congress) playing with the security, safety and well being of my children and my fellow citizens. it is time to wake up and time to act to let them know they will not get away with slipping quietly off and neglecting their job.
i am tired of this mess called washington. it is time for a real Boston Tea Party. no taxation without real representation.
lobbying regulations must be done and must include this:
if you are a congresscritter said lobbying must come from a corporate or individual that headquartered/resides within your district.
if you are a senatecritter said lobbying must come from a corpocorporate or individual that headquartered/resides within your state.
no foreign lobbying that is why the executive branch has the state department for foreign relations.
if these are violated all involved lose everything and all go straight to jail. not to mention some hefty fines to be paid by all concerned. this would cause the critters to start listening to their citizens and would end the pandering to foreign interests.
also, this would have the potential of the critters in washington to start to be concerned for their citizens well being by engaging them instead of special interests in washington.
and of course another reason for term limits.
senators- 1 term
congress - 2 terms
perhaps we would then have a government representing the people/citizens of the US.
If the Illegals wanted this past, the democrats would fold and vote for it.
lgm, what the Repubs wanted was a permanent bill, not another stop-gap. It’s the Dem-its that want to play political football here.
Howdy all,
I just crawled out of bed fighting this nasty flu virus going around. It has had me down for almost two days now. I have a lot of catching up to do. At least my two lying crapweasel Senators are on the citizen’s side of this issue (although I have very little faith in “Happy Feet” Craig on illegal immigration).
This is a great opportunity for the so called born again conservative Juan McNasty to show us how he has seen the light. Maybe with all of his skill in crossing the aisle to stab conservative principles in the back maybe he can help some of his useless buddies in the Dumbocrat camp to also see the light and put the safety of American citizens above the constant infighting led by Dirty Harry and Queen Pelosi.
Thanks for the update Michelle!
Checklist for today …
Schedule trip to firing range this weekend …
Clean all firearms …
Buy more ammunition …
Buy more firearms …
Buy even more ammunition …
House hasn’t passed the bill so you want me to call my senators?
aj and granite–I feel your pain,I’ve got Spector and Casey.
lgm–They had six months,now they need two weeks?
Throw them all out.NO more incumbents.
Bear, Tiger, Marshal and SHoward,
I think lgm hit you with some drive-by trolling and sped left ’round the corner and off to safety, since there haven’t been any new replies.
Yeah, Drive-By-Troll-ing. CPODUG confirmed for me that was the same as drive by management. The only difference is I get to watch and laugh as my boss waddles away.
lgm might be back. He sometimes stands his bridge.
Well i’m from Georgia and my two are pretty damn good…
He might have a class to teach. Thank God it’s math and not political science!
SHoward said (#14):
What Republicans want isn’t necessarily what they get, given that they are the minority. You would think they would prefer a stop-gap to nothing. By refusing that, they are playing the blame game at least as much as the Democrats.
And let’s remember that what we’re arguing over is authorization of the President to tap anyone’s phone anywhere with no court order without having to give a reason and with no control over the use of the information.
TexasTiger said (#22):
Or biology (evolution).
Come on, lgm. You should know better. The only issue left on the table is whether to grant retroactive immunity from civil suits to the telecoms.
Again, not true. The calls in question are those that originate or terminate outside the United States, but are routed through copper or fiber optic cable in the United States.
Two of my favorite professors in college were my ultra-leftwing liberal Poli Sci professors. We never agreed on anything.
By chance, both were females. My first one would beg me to come to some of her other classes, if I wasn’t busy, because she couldn’t get any of them to debate. I guess that was because I didn’t seem to have that particular phobia.
Key Myths About FISA Amendments In The Protect America Act
Barry F:
Never cared much for Poli Sci. Most discussions or arguments generated more heat than light.
I think that’s what kept is so interesting for me from time to time, Tiger.
I had particular fun debunking my first Poli Sci professor that kept going on about how she was opposed to materialism and such. It only took pointing out, in front of the full class what kind of car she drove (Audi) and calling her on the carpet as to what kind her husband, an attorney, drove (BMW). Busted!
College could be fun, even without the “Sex Week” stuff like Yale is doing.
I wanna buy some alligators.
Don’t need to train them.
That should keep ‘em at bay.
For leftist “educators” every class is a “political science” class, ala Jay Bennish’s “geography” class.
By all means lets all stay home and teach the Republican party a lesson, Obama will be OK on this and other issues like late term abortion, taxes, amnesty now, higer taxes, surrender to Islam in Iraq, and by the way higher taxes to help rebuild the cities that the ROP destroy with bombs.
Ooops - forgot to reference on that last name there!
Unhinged teacher caught on tape
It’s hard to politicize engineering or the hard sciences. Heck, the best the feminists can do is to gripe about those disciplines being male-dominated.
Well, Nancy Pelosi looked a little shocked in the background. Your move, San Fran Nan.
If the dimocrits can keep this as a part time bill till after the election. Then they can go ahead and change it around till it favors their ideas. In otherwords. If this bill passes under a rep[ublican President any future actions that save lives goes to the republicans. If they can change it around and keep it under the table. Then they can stiffen it and collapse any portion that would benifit America.
Typical politics. Bush has the authority to hold congress over till they pass a bill that he will sign. He should envoke his authority and put the spot light on Nancy Peloooza now and make the dems become bipartisn.
Blind_Mule (#27) points us to:
Key Myths About FISA Amendments In The Protect America Act
This is wrong. The old FISA bill requires a warrent to tap within the US. The new bill removes that requirement. Note how the wording above disguises that: the new bill clarifies that and targets located in foreign countries. The target might be foreign, but the tapping happens in the US and at least one of the people tapped may be a US citizen on US soil.
TexasTiger said (#34):
Most people count biology (including evolution) as a hard science. The Reagan laser based anti missile system (star wars) violated hard physical principles, including the diffraction limit on focusing. Anything that matters to politicians can be politiced.
Ummm, so? This is the point that both political parties agree on.
In my defense, I did say it was hard–not impossible. The politicization of climatology may prove me wrong on that point, though.
lgm brings up an interesting question: If one party is a US citizen on US soil, while the other is a suspected terrorist on foreign soil, should the NSA or FBI or (insert agency here) be able to wiretap without a warrant?
I have a gut instinct of my own, but I wonder what everyone else thinks.
Heh. Does McCarthy work for the government? In any case, he’s exaggerating. The only thing that lapses is warrantless spying of foreign targets that takes place on American soil. He makes it sound as if all surveillance ability is killed. FISA is still in effect, and the government can still intercept communications outside of this country.
If so, why didn’t the Bush Administration allow the Telecom Shammunity provision to be dropped? This could have been passed months ago. Let the courts decide whether or not telecoms should be culpable for participating in warrantless spying activities (by the way, the White House let it slip that telecoms did participate in these activities). That is the proper role of the courts. It’s tremendously unfair to attach corporate welfare and “CYA” legislation to a bill that contains vital and necessary foreign intelligence revamps. People who object to telecoms being let off the hook for their warrantless spying are now called weak on security, betraying our troops, etc because of this bundling. It might as well have immunity for child-molesters in there — the rhetoric against objectors to that provision would be the same.
Texas Tiger #38, you seem to have answered my question.
I tried to send the following letter to Nancy Pelosi, but her mailbox is too full.
DARN!
To Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi:
Is letting the FISA bill drop, leaving America unprotected, your way of voting for John McCain, over your own party candidates?
I find this very clever of you, since the only explanation I can arrive at for you to not pass a FISA bill as quickly and quietly as possible, but to make a big stink of NOT ALLOWING a vote on it - which would pass - is so you can help drive MILLIONS of GOP voters to the polls IN SUPPORT OF McCAIN, who have otherwise determined they would NEVER vote for him.
You must have a sweetheart deal with him on the side, to work THIS HARD to help put his candidacy over, since obviously, at this point, the entire GOP would collapse over his head, WITHOUT YOU PROPPING HIM BACK UP at this critical period.
WELL, IT WILL NOT WORK. I’m just telling you.
I will not vote for that loggerhead, anyway.
You and I both know that McCain’s positions of helping secure America are fake and he will do as much to undermine our security as you Democrats do - or more so.
I figure YOU think he will do more damage to America than the Democrat party is currently capable of, because a few Democrats are getting scared of the idea of living the fantasy life of “Escape From New York” and “Escape From L.A.” - but obviously, McCain is not scared of that, as evidenced by Juan Hernandez and Jerry Perenchio.
I guess you find that much more in line with your own agenda than Hillary Clinton or Barrack Obama.
It looks like a smarter match and use of your own power, to me.
This matches the cleverness that McCain used to ramp up the ANTI-TORTURE issue in America, until he got the CONGRESS to actually VOTE ON IT, at which time HE “SWITHCHED SIDES” as he so often does, knowing his “NAY” VOTE was totally safe FOR NOW with his GOP VOTERS, because President Bush would VETO the anti-torture bill anyway - making McCain look like a hero of the War on Terror, when he is actually YOUR BEST “SECRET” WEAPON against it!
To protect from frivolous lawsuits those firms that acted in good faith by cooperating with our intelligence agencies when the nation’s safety was in doubt.
Almost. The role of courts is to try cases within their jurisdictions. The role of the legislature is to define courts’ jurisdictions–precisely what the immunity proviso does.
Well, why was there not a walkout on the waterboard issue? Bush was going to veto it anyhow.
Dems: not for waterboarding
Dems: not for listening in
Makes me proud to be a republican (even if the republicans can’t make me proud).
I heard Rush today talk about the trial lawyers have put a hold on their $1.5 million contribution to the House Democrats, don’t you love how bundling works, if the FISA bill passes with the immunity provision.
If the immunity provision is stripped, the trial lawyers will likely make big further payoffs to the Democrats, it is like a kickback scheme which no one seems to care about.
What about America? Never was a priority if you are a Democrat, power is all that matters.
Bush’s priority is opening up the borders for the free flow of labor into the United States, which means so many terrorists and spies are entering the country that we have to give up our freedoms for security and cheap labor.
The FISA law does not expire if this does not pass. It just reverts to the way it was over time. See below–this is the danger of just listening to Fox:
“Fox News White House correspondent Wendell Goler falsely asserted that “the president is trying … to get the House to pass a permanent extension of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act” and that “[t]he president threw down the gauntlet, said he’s not going to accept any more extensions, that this act must be permanently renewed before it expires in two days.” In fact, as Media Matters for America has repeatedly documented, the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (FISA) is not set to expire February 15. What is set to expire are the PAA’s revisions to FISA, which, among other things, expanded the government’s authority to eavesdrop on Americans’ domestic-to-foreign communications without a warrant.
Following Goler’s report, guest host Bret Baier stated, “Again, the big question mark, what happens if it doesn’t get through?” The question was left unanswered on Special Report. However, the PAA’s “transition procedures” point out what happens if the revisions are allowed to expire on February 15: All new authorizations for surveillance would be governed by the FISA statute as it existed prior to the PAA revisions, while all current authorizations would remain in effect until their scheduled expiration date.”
And the walkout happened just before Harriet Miers and Chief of Staff Josh Bolten were to be found in contempt of Congress for refusing to testify before a panel investigating the firing of several United States attorneys.
There was and is strong bipartisan support to pass a new FISA bill. However, there is not strong bipartisan support to pass retroactive immunity for the telecoms.
So, why can’t Congress pass the law without the immunity? Oh right, because the president threatens to veto any bill without immunity.
So, again, who’s holding things up?
They already have immunity if they acted in good faith. This legislation gives immunity regardless of good faith intentions. Why would they need immunity for “bad faith” actions. Well, because Judge Walker in the EFF/AT&T case ruled the following:
So stop with the “good faith” stuff. They knew it was illegal. They cooperated anyway. If you are going to defend them, it is going to have to be on the grounds that the terrorist threat is more important than the rule of law.
The sole objection to this bill is the retroactive immunity provision for telecoms’ “bad faith” illegal actions. Take that out, the bill passes. It is dishonest to suggest that Democrats are objecting to the “meat” of the bill. They aren’t. This could have passed months ago if Bush weren’t threatening to veto any version of the bill without shammunity.
aj, it’s a race to the bottom for the worst senators, i have 1 dem and 1 rep senator and you can hardly tell em apart. Gonna be crowded down there where it’s the warmest.
Theretroactive immunity provision is being done to death.
Laywer playground is all it will turn out to be. Complaint after complaint will be filed. Every stinking one will have to be dealt with. So with merit (maybe) and most not (as if merit matters to a lawyer).
In the end, the costs will be passed to the consumer (think health insurance and tort law if you need an example).
I read on another thread where a woman constantly filed complaints with her neighbor. It cost her $25 to file the complaint. Her neighbors cost was in the hundreds of dollars every time.
Yep, we need another lawyer playground for sure. Tarpon hit on another good point at #45 as well.
Don’t feed the trolls.
#48:
Thanks for the link to a 72-page legal document. Having scanned the document, I see that it’s a ruling on a petition by AT&T and the government to dismiss the case…nothing more.
So stop channeling the telecom execs, Kreskin.
Really, it’s all about lining the pockets of the trial lawyers, isn’t it?
As reported here:
I think the lawyers are hoping that the telecoms will find it easier to settle than fight, thus ensuring a big payoff, even if the telecoms acted in good faith. You see, it’s a no win for the telecoms, and a win-win for the lawyers if the immunity is not included.
I heard Pelosi wants to end the session so she can attend a wedding - which for her is almost as important as finger sandwiches in the congressional lunch room and much, much more important than the security and safety of the American people. She’s a traitor.
Have you guys noticed that it’s always the “godless” liberals who are afraid their phones are the ones that might be tapped (some time in the future?) Yet, they CANNOT name ONE SINGLE LAW-ABIDING U.S. citizen to whom this has happened. If there WAS even one, don’t you think they would have been ramming it down our throats by now?
Continually preoccupied with “what if” in regards to perceived attacks on their civil rights, but absolutely blind to the “what ifs” regarding possible acts of foreign/home-grown terrorism.
The mind of a conspiracy nut…trust no one…they might be/are/have been out to get you!
right_on:
I’d be satisfied if they could identify just one phone call they didn’t place because they feared the call would be monitored.
Texas Tiger…you don’t want your children to learn science and facts? Man I know this isn’t the time to get into this debate so I’ll leave it for another time.
Granting telecoms the immunity they need is vital because not only will the ACLU sue, there is a gang of others out there who will as well claiming their individual rights are being infringement upon. Just read broadbandreports.com. it’s not only terrorists who don’t like their communications being tapped, it’s others criminals as well like people who pirate movies and music. I know it’s not the same thing as muhammed al jihad wanting to blow us up but it’s still interesting to note it’s the scummy people who don’t want the tapping. Oh yeah, be prepared to be inundated from Ben Franklin quotes (most of the time said incorrectly) if you bring this up to any libs you know.
Texas Tiger-
Well, you know they can’t! This, after all, is the party of “I don’t recall!”
Rush was all over this today… it seems that the trial lawyers who want to sue the telecoms have been spreading money around.
bentman78:
I support science, facts and the telecoms’ position.
The democraps would rather sue our corporations than protect our country. Money first, constitutional duty last. Thank you Nancy for another new low from the democrap controlled “limbo” congress. How low can they go?
Congressional Research Service PAA 2007
Public Law 110-55 Protect America Act 2007
As you all can see, there are more important things that Congress needs to deal with, besides national security…like Bolten, Meirs, and Clemens.
Well, I see that there is another “jim m” (no caps) on this board, who appears to be a polar opposite of my views.
Great.
Congress’ failure to act on this is inexcusable. They have had months if not years to reach a resolution here, and to allow provisions of a law protecting the American people to expire through inaction is the hright if irresponsibility.
Wouldn’t it be ironic if the chatter begins regarding a plan to target a member of Congress or their family, and the discussions go unmonitored due to the expiration of the FISA provisions. Apparently, Congress has forgotten that part of the Al Queda playbook involved attacks on members of Congress.
LGM I hope your city isn’t the target of the next terrorist attack. But you will blame Bush on this if did happen. Surely Nancy P will if SF is hit because she never bears responsibility on anything. Notice she is still for surrender.