John McCain endorses Hillary’s “good character, honesty, integrity”
John McCain is incapable of disagreeing with strict immigration enforcement activists without lambasting their character, honesty, and integrity. We’re “nativists” and Jim Crow-style racists who should just “f**k” off. He couldn’t help sneering at former GOP rival Mitt Romney’s business experience as dishonorable and greedy. And his personal vindictiveness toward GOP Hill staffers who have opposed his positions is well-known.
Contrast this treatment of people in his own party with McCain’s treatment of his supposed ideological opposite, Hillary Clinton. Yesterday, McCain was asked about his comment three years ago that Hillary would make a “good president.” If his explanation of the remarks to George Stephanopoulous is supposed to “calm down” conservatives, the McCain camp is 1) more out of touch with reality than I imagined, and 2) hurtling towards a repeat of the 1996 Dole/Kemp disaster faster than I imagined. When Hillary’s Democrat rival, Barack Obama, is doing a better job of attacking the ethically-challenged, truth-challenged, integrity-challenged Clintons than the GOP presidential front-runner, we are in deep doo-doo.
Here are the vid and transcript. Watch, read, cringe, discuss:
Republican presidential hopeful Sen. John McCain of Arizona sat down with George Stephanopoulos on “This Week” today for a wide-ranging interview.
GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS: You’re a superstitious man.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN: Let me say that I’m the luckiest man. You know, I don’t like to use superstitious. I just feel that I’m very lucky, and I like to have things that make me luckier.
STEPHANOPOULOS: So when was the first moment you let yourself believe “I’m going to be the nominee”?
MCCAIN: I haven’t yet.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You haven’t yet?
MCCAIN: Well, I think we’ve got to go through it. I think we’ve got a very good shot at it. I’m optimistic. But I think the time to do that is when [former Arkansas] Governor [Mike] Huckabee and the party decides that I am the nominee. He’s still in the race, and he said he’s going to stay in, and I respect that. So we’ll compete.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Back in 2005, you said, “I have no doubt that Sen. [Hillary] Clinton would make a good president.”
MCCAIN: Well, look, here’s — Sen. Clinton and I are sitting next to each other, and we’re asked, “Would she,” quote, “be a good president?” She would be a good president in the respect that I think she has integrity, I think she has all of the qualities that are necessary, but she has a very different philosophical view, the liberal Democratic view, than I have, which is conservative Republican.
So when you say “good,” she’s a good person. But we have strong differences in our views of government. I think she is a very good person. I think that Sen. [Barack] Obama is a good person.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But not good presidents?
MCCAIN: They certainly wouldn’t make the kind of president that I would be or I wouldn’t be running. You see my point? It’s not a, quote, “good.” I think they would work hard. I think they would be dedicated to the things that they believe in and stand for. I just have different fundamental philosophical views than they do.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But it sounds like you wouldn’t say the same thing today?
MCCAIN: I would say that they would be good in the respect they’re people of good character, honesty, integrity, when you look at that. Would they be good from a governing standpoint? Certainly not what I would do for this country.
See what others have said
Note from Michelle: This section is for comments from michellemalkin.com's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that I agree with or endorse any particular comment just because I let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with my terms of use may lose his or her posting privilege.
Trackbacks
- Bipartisan Love Fest: Barf Alert! « The Vast Global Zionist Conspiracy v 5.0
- Dave Lucas' Notes
- The TIW Blog » Blog Archive » I TOLD YOU SO! McCAIN WILL *NOT* FIGHT!
- Stop The ACLU » Blog Archive » McCain says Clinton would make a good president
- Malkin: Faster Than Feared — The McCain Mutiny
- Neocon News » Bill Clinton’s Screw My Wife* Tour
- Oblogatory Anecdotes - campaign trail quotes
- Right Wing News
- The Dan Lee Report » Blog Archive » Plagiarism? The Clinton Campaign is now showing a drowning desperation
- John McCain: Hillary Has Good Character, is Honest and Has Integrity « AmeriCAN-DO Attitude
- Michelle Malkin » McCain to staff: Hands off of Hillary
Comments
You must be logged in to post a comment.
Categories: Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, John McCain
Legal Insurrection
» Pelosi's Abortion Land Mine Explodes
Weekly Standard
» Obama's Talking PointsSister Toldjah
» The anniversary of the fall of the Berlin Wall – and how the far left still hasn’t given upNewsBusters.org
» Politico: Conservatives Ousted Scozzafava Because She's A WomanWeekly Standard
» Ben Nelson Demands Stupak Language in Senate Bill
See what I mean, Rose?
You can’t do this by the rules, and when I do, you resort to trash-talk.
Another demonstration completed. Thank you for your participation.
…and that, Rose, is an evasion…
not an answer.
Rags:
You and your fellow travelers are saying you’re not judgemental at the same time you all are making a judgement. In your self-righteous tone (I’m sorry I’m not perfect like you), if I vote for McCain then I’m not a true conservative. You will not tell me how to vote as I won’t tell YOU how to vote. I’m beginning to think you wouldn’t know what a true conservative is if it bit you in the ___ (you can fill that in, right?). I’m also thinking that the only “true conservative” is what is shaped in your own mind and definition.
There are social, economic, and security conservatives. I fall into pretty much all three categories. Some only fit one. Then there are the moderates who dominate both political parties. Will you judge them? Then there are the independents. Will you judge them? Then there are the liberals-we already know what you think.
I grew up in a liberal college town where I saw LIBERALS in action. These were people who went to church yet looked the other way when their kids got into trouble with drugs and crime. I was easily lulled into buying their jive as a teenager/young 20 something until I woke the hell up. There was massive unemployment and the only main employer were the colleges in town still pushing the hippie jive my parents (one a babyboomer and the other a Depression era baby) despised.
I’m sorry, but really, where do you, Ombre, or any of your cohorts get off? Not once, since I’ve been on this blog have I felt Michelle made a judgement about me. Michelle recognizes that there is a lot of disagreement within the conservative community about McCain. I openly acknowledge it.
By the way, I don’t think anybody is pushing McCain’s candidacy. I’m not. I’m only saying that I support him. Those who “support” McCain have their issues with him and are more reluctant then you, Rags, or Ombre, or Jim, may care to admit. I’m by no means a “McCainiac”…. I pragmatically see him as the lesser of three evils even if he still equally as “evil.”
Do you not realize that if you continue along the same path as does Ombre…you are driving more conservatives away than attracting? There are many more conservatives out there who want government shaken up but also realize it cannot be done without a sea change in Congress. We MUST get in more conservative blood at the local, state, and national level if we are to take back Congress. The way you’re going, people who are independent, conservative Dems, and the in between (between moderate and conservative) will reject you.
Irish Rose,
To the people that know me, “Evasive coward” is the very last thing that would come to mind. You are really going out of your way to start a war here, and I am not going to go there.
You apparently truly believe MR CC’s question was realistic, and that is a sad commentary on your state of mind.
As for being accused of attacking people, all I have done is point out that people have a right to differing points of view here. To be called unpatriotic and un-american for taking a differing view to those supporting McCain is a loathesome indictment.
If you support McCain, fine. That is your right as an American citizen. But understand that others who are just as or more passionate in their principles and beliefs do not support him. That is their right. The only attacks I have seen here have been precipitated by the McCain crowd in an attempt to chastise, denigrate, shame, embarrass or villify those who do not support him.
I will note once more that freedom and liberty we enjoy in this country has been secured and maintained at a very high cost by people of all political persuasions. The freedom to speak, the freedom to choose. Yet some here, while accepting those freedoms for themselves, have no respect for the freedoms of others. Apparently, it is only “freedom” to the extent people agree with their views, and viewed as dissent that needs to be crushed alternative views are expressed.
You are free to succumb to the politics of fear in your belief that the world will end unless McCain is elected. That is your right. But some people will never succumb to exercising a right based on fear, believing in America, that is not an option we should settle for. While fear is a powerful motivator, it is a tactic often employed as a last resort to sway the will of the people, expecially when there are no substantive benefits to support the desired course of action.
There are those of us who have served in the military to insure that our nation does NOT live in fear. And from a practical standpoint there is really little to actually fear in this great nation. Yet, there are those who would subvert the sacrifices of our forefathers and the men and women who served this country, to conjure up imaginary demons to influence political decisions. Such tactics trample the sacrifices made in the past by patriots of all persuasions in the name of politics. That is indeed politics at its very worst. And is a shameful tactic that mocks the very foundations of this nation.
So Rose, go ahead and continue your campaign of invective and fear mongering. That is apparently all you have to argue support for McCain, and that fact is readily transparent to most folks who read this board.
I wish you the best in your future endeavors, and pray that God keeps your son out of harms way.
Actually, ma’am, I have never claimed to be non-judgmental. In fact, I think anyone who tells you they are that is a liar or an idiot, since nobody can move through life without judging…evaluating, assessing, gaging…other other human beings on any number of levels.
I also have no claim to perfection. If I ever did, my children disabused me of that looooonnnggg ago.
If you vote for McCain, I simply cannot see how you square your vote with your conservative values. But of that, I am not your judge. I merely call to your “better angels” of conscience or rational thought. You are free to tell me you have considered the points I have raised and are satisfied within yourself.
I have not assaulted you, but challenged you. Either may make you uncomfortable, but are not the same…
Rags:
So instead of understanding how other “conservatives” feel you’d rather disengage? I’m sorry but this seems to be an evasion on your part. I believe the only inconsistency on my part was that I had the utter gaul to not agree with you and others.
I’m not a big fan of historical analogies. Europe and America are completely two different entities. They also have completely different political movements. They can influence one another but that doesn’t mean that they are of the same stripe.
Your “reaction” is what is actively wrong with the conservative movement. Instead of trying to understand why people oppose your viewpoint, you refuse to engage them at all. You “give up.” This attitude is the singular reason why conservatives will not catch on throughout the country. This is why liberals say we’re “religious fanatics” even though there are many conservative sub groups.
As to Ron Paul, the libertarian label is a canard. He uses it when it suits him just as he uses the conservative label. He likes to see himself as both.
As to McCain, I am under no illusions. I am not a quitter and I refuse to have my vote be an empty one. I refuse to have the very movement I joined 10 years ago pass a judgement on me that is unfair. You, SIR, are unfair and you know it.
You, SIR, have mischaraterized (a better word for lie) what I have said. As someone with a history background, I only pointed out that using an historical analogy for any politician is conjecture at best. If it is a matter of personal animus, ADMIT IT, and stop treating us all like dopes.
By the way, I did support my arguments but you did not. They were well-thought out and reasoned. Yet you come back and say I cannot appreciate your logic and therefore you give yourself a self-congratulatory pat on the back. You’ve gotten away with it many times and people like Conservative Cat have called you on it. You’ve evaded and decided to say you’re the “better man.” I and others have seen it.
I’m seeking to understand, Rags. You’re seeking to stymie me and others from understanding. How is this a fair exchange of ideas? How are you and your fellow travellers doing yourselves any favors?
emjem – a question. If you vote for McCain and if he loses wouldn’t your vote have been an “empty one”? (i.e. you didn’t achieve the desired end)
Jim,
My husband serves in the military. Are you going to say to his face he’s giving into fear if he votes for McCain? Do you not think that’s a bit narrow-minded? As a military spouse, I’m going to ask you: where the hell do you get off? Do you live my life or that of my husband’s? Have you seen what he’s seen? Have you lived through the anguish of the most terrible day of your generation? I’ve moved on but the scars are still fresh.
There’s as much disagreement about McCain in conservative circles as there is in military ones. My husband and I do not like the man but since when do you necessarily need to like a person for them to be chosen as president?
I find it utterly ridiculous that you’re complaining about being called unpatriotic. I have never called you that. You really think voting for McCain is a vote of fear. I think it’s a vote for security, for winning in Iraq among other things. I think it’s a vote for reality.
By the way, please stop speaking for people who read this board. It’s insulting and patronizing. You do not speak for me. I speak for me. I do not think that IR is fear mongering. At best, that’s a dishonest assertion on your part.
Another thing, I vote based on my preferences and personal experiences. I vote for the person who looks out for me the most. I’ve also voted for conservative Dem candidates. Do you know anybody serving in the military currently? Have you lost anybody as a result of 9/11 or the GWOT? Does my merely asking these question indicate “fear mongering” to you?
I think there is a greater idea at work on this blog than just mere disagreement among conservatives. The assertions by anti-McCain folks leads to a greater conclusion: our country is so divided that we will never come together again. I’ve seen it in the patent refusal to discuss the future of the GWOT on both sides. There’s an acceptance to turn inward, let the world fall apart at our feet. What happened to us?
And that, ma’am, is why I will not discourse with you further.
It is a cardinal affront to someone engaging in a dialog with you to tell them what they know.
Analogy is not conjecture…it is observation which may…or may not…prove valid.
Saying you hate people who use it is not an argument…it is an attack, and a foolish one, since history is such a valuable teacher.
Now, buh-bye…be happy!
On February 19th, 2008 at 12:38 pm, emjem24 said:
Very well stated, great post.
I also lost someone on 9/11, a good friend who worked for Cantor Fitzgerald.
emjem,
Where did I address anything I had to say to you? If you are personalizing what I wrote, you are making a major leap of logic.
You know darn well I did not say anyone who votes for McCain is doing so out of fear. I only noted that some people are using fear as a method to sway people to vote for McCain, and it is THAT tactic that I find vile.
If you are going to pose an argument, plese do so based on the facts. To add your own spin or even words to what I wrote is disingenous and an attempt to stack the deck in your favor.
Yes, I still know people who serve. Yes, I have close friends who both lost sons who were working in the Trade Center on 9/11, neither of whom ever found so much as a trace of their sons to bury. As well as a close business associate who I knew for over 5 years and with whom I shared a dinner with a month before 9/11 And I tried to return to active duty following 9/11, and leave my multiple six figure job, going so far as getting Senator Jesse Helms to petition the Secretary of the Army to accept my petition. I answered your questions, but still do not understand the relevance of either the questions or answers in the context of this discussion (other than to perhaps question my committment or feelings for this country).
I repeat, I did not address any of my comments to you, and for you to rear up and ask where in the hell do I get off is more than a little disconcerting.
You may want to tone it down long enough to actually listen to what other people are saying, rather than adding your own spin and personalizing the debate.
Purplepeep:
And if I do not vote at all, what does that say? With people who voted for Kerry in the 2004 election, do you think their vote was an “empty one?” No, I don’t think mine will be since I exercise my right to vote while others treat it as a joke. I also voted for Bob Dole (my first election). I had misgivings about him too- was that an empty gesture or one of an active, responsible American citizen? Just consider all the folks who don’t vote at all….
Thought question–
When can you imagine the slogan “If you don’t vote for [FILL IN THE BLANK], it will be the same as a vote for the Democrat, and our nation will suffer” will not be as correctly applied as it is today?
Then, logically, what character-impoverished, liberal, enemy of all you say you value…
with an “R” next to his or her name…
would you NOT vote to support if that is
what the GOP served up?
Think a bit…
Jim,
While I respect your service to our country, I respectfully disagree with your assertions. Aren’t we all personalizing and spinning to some degree? Do you think it justified and fair to label people who vote for McCain as not “conservative” who believe in its basic principles?
I addressed those questions to you because in many cases, it’s what the election comes down to for me. McCain appeals to security conservatives even if he has many other blemishes that are hard to overcome.
I’m addressing you because I think IR was being sincere and standing up for what she believes in. Is that not what you, Ombre, and Rags are doing? I don’t think she’s using fear, she’s telling it like it is.
Keep in mind that scenerio, emjem, but instead substitute folks who do vote and do so for a conservative non-GOP partys’ candidate who also loses; Wouldn’t it be they’d both have the same bottom-line reality?
I’m not going anywhere with that, lol, just think it’s an interesting ponderable if “empty vote” means a vote for a non-winner.
emjem24
*hugs* from a military mom to a military wife!
Please extend my thanks to your husband for his honorable service to this nation during wartime.
And I thank you for your service to this nation, as well… you support all of us here on the homefront, by supporting his work in the field and working so hard to advocate for our military personnel on blogs and forums like this one.
May the good Lord bless you both, and watch over and protect you.
I’m out the door to have some automotive work done… carry on, all.
Rags:
This is why I respectfully disagree: you are also telling me how to think and feel. Why can you not let people decide for themselves? Why do you get to be the arbiter of what is and is not a “true conservative.” Who gave you that authority?
Throughout my dialogue with you, it has become obvious how some people will use history to put their own personal spin on just about anybody or anything. People hide behind history instead of making their own case. That is disingenuous.
If you don’t like my saying that I disagree with you and that I feel your historical analogies are disengenuous… tough. You’ve been telling me and everybody else what’s a genuine conservative so you’re being a bit of hypocrite by saying that I’m doing the same to you.
Ironic don’t you think…..
Yes, I do…
so, no.
You don’t get the inconsistency in what you just wrote. I see that. It’s OK.
I have a right to ask people here questions. Sometimes I call them on something they’ve said that is nonsense.
You equate that with telling them how or what to think.
That is why we cannot “commit” dialog.
You are too easily threatened. I have no need to discomfort you further.
Blog Malkin: ground zero for cut-and-run conservatives.
Not a moniker that I’d cherish, but hey…
If you’ve been falsely called a bigot, nativist, xenophobe, corrupt, racist, fat-cat, hater, homophobe, war-monger, baby-killer, traitor, coward, liar, blah, blah, blahblahblah…
being called stuuuuu pid names by stuuuuu pid people sort of seems like second nature.
emjem
Thank you for the most civil response. I appreciate your views and understand why you are supporting McCain.
I don’t believe I every labeled people as not being conservative. Like I said, conservatives, as well as members of other political parties, come in all political persuasions most of whom are equally sincere and passionate about their views. It does not make them any less partiotic, nor any less an American.
What I have seen is some pro McCain folks on this site resorting to invective and fear mongering to silence the opposition. Any attempt to silence free speech is most un-american.
Security issues are indeed important, and it may surprise you that I am one of those people who remains undecided as to who to vote for. One of the points I have been making is that some in the McCain crowd are not doing the candidate any favors by using tactics that will certainly sway votes away, rather than toward, McCain.
Security is important, but I happen to believe it is a hollow promise when we have open borders and a looming amnesty bill that will grant the rights of citizenship to up to 30 million illegals here. McCain, in his speech at CPAC, made a big deal about commerating the sacrifice of the 4000 soldiers who made the ultimate sacrifice in Iraq and Afghanistan. I too share his pain. But, while we have lost 4000 American lives in two wars in a 5 year period, and while we lost 3000 civilian lives in 9/11, every year in this countryan estimated 4000 US citizens are murdered at the hands of illegal aliens, with another 4000+ killed on the road by illegal aliens who disregard our laws on drunk driving.
And let’s not forget the number of OTM’s (other than Mexicans) that now reside within the US.
If the lives of 4000 soldiers are worthy of recognition, are not the lives of twice the number of US citizens EVERY YEAR not worthy of some action?
Security needs to be more than a political phrase. And we will not be secure in this country if we do not immediately address the veritable slaughter that is occuring in our own neighborhoods.
With McCain’s history and current stance on illegals, his stand on security is, in my view, a hollow promise. You cannot lament the loss of lives 10,000 miles away while ignoring a loss 10 times greater here at home and be taken seriously about security.
Which is why, when asked whether one would prefer a democrat or republican in the White House, more than a few of us here do not see any difference.
It may be expedient to vote for McCain, with the thought that we’ll do better next time, but we have been faced with the lesser of two evils choice from the Republican Party for far too long. The next time will be no different, and the world will likely be unsafer than it is today. So, do you stand your ground now and say “enough” or do you settle and put off dealing with the same issue again in 4 years?
My inclination is to stand our ground now and say we have had enough. Enough of the lies. Enough of the GOP throwing out candidates that are so out of touch with the electorate that their views are detrimental to the very survival of the party and. frankly, the future prospects for this Country. The GOP does not get it, and will not get it if they get another 4 years in the White House. They will view that as a mandate from the people to continue their descent into the abyss of socialism.
Excellent, Jim. I would be proud if I could sign my name to what you just wrote.
Purplepeep:
The country is trending democratic this year anyway so what’s your point? Let’s all vote for Ron Paul and make ourselves feel better because he’s the Liberatarian/Conservative candidate? Let’s all show John McCain how vile we think he is?
If you think my vote for McCain is an empty gesture then so is voting for a third party candidate. I know where you’re coming from but voting is still a civic responsibility and I do take it seriously. Why don’t we all just give in, be petulant children, lodge a protest vote? Well, since there are folks on here who think voting for McCain is meaningless, then he’s my protest vote against the Dems! Not exactly the message to be sending to the next generation of voters, now is it?
Be my guest!
I’m back to put in a good word for fear–not all fear, just the rational kind of which Patton advised us to take occasional counsel.
I admit that I fear surrendering the Presidency to Oh!b♥m♥/Clint♂n for many reasons, including what either would do to the economy, national defense, domestic tranquility and–yes–border security over the course of eight years.
Having taken counsel of that fear, I will vote for McCain in order to block the ascendancy of Oh!b♥m♥/Clint♂n.
And why is that vile?
I’m not debating you here, emjem, just exchanging some thoughts. I was going by your concept of the “empty vote”; I wouldn’t use the phrase or concept myself. I’d put it as people just doing what they believe to be right, win or lose.
I would say more of a privilege than a duty, emjem. And it would seem everyone certainly takes it seriously!
Myself, I never talk about who I voted for/will vote for, that’s why the booth comes with a curtain.
Well, I do note that whenever I see a candidate running unopposed I write my own name in. Just one guy running is too much like North Korea for my taste. And I know I can trust myself, if elected!
What never ceases to amaze me are the people who have zero clue who they want to vote for until they get into the booth.
Let’s explore that rationally, shall we?
What EXACTLY do you fear that they would do?
I fear that they would do what they promise to do if elected…repeal the Bush tax cut, enact a single-payer health care system, cut and run from Iraq, refuse to engage the next terror threat, appoint far-left justices to the Supreme Court, District Courts and Circuit Courts, fund abortion in federal medical facilities, restrict gun-owners’ rights, push the wall between church and state against the church door, provide amnesty–not even shamnesty–to 20 million illegals and immediately register them as Democrats, etc..
Rags:
What dialogue? I’ve been giving of myself throughout the entirety of this subject. I feel passionately about this election. You have been calling me out on several things so why can’t I do the same? Why is there a special set of rules for you and the rest of us just languish under your presumed ideas and prejudices?
I don’t equate your challenges with telling me how to think or feel. I have no problem picking up your gauntlet. I’ve challenged you on many of your presumptions and yet I’ve gotten no sincere responses. How is this a fair exchange of ideas? Tell me.
Where have I been inconsistent? If I came off seeming that way then let me disabuse you of your assumption. I am a true, honest conservative and you will not alter the shape of my opinions because I am backing the wrong horse (in your opinion).
You do not easily threaten me or make me uncomfortable. It takes a lot more ammunition then you have to intimidate me. You are too busy “challenging” me or anybody else to listen to the other side. Perhaps, you too need to tone it down as Jim has suggested to me. You aren’t listening to me and have not gained my resepct through your one-sided discourse. You’d rather play games such as “who is the most pure conservative.” I will not play your game. I will however still converse with you when you say things that are reflections of your own perception and not actual fact.
Rags, for there to have been dialogue there should have been respect. I never judged you but you have judged me. I have always said that I respect those who don’t wish to vote for McCain because of his stance on immigration and other shifty maneuvers. You have taken it to a new level by passing down a judgement on those of us who are willing to look at the whole man, not just his mistakes. If choosing McCain makes me less of a conservative then I really don’t want to live by your puritanical definition of what a conservative is. Your definition serves no useful purpose except to put off those interested in joining the movement.
Purplepeep:
Thanks for your thoughtful post. I totally agree with you and understand your point. It is well taken. My first mistake was showing my hand on this blog. Then again, I thought I would get some support and thoughtful dialogue and instead I’m being lectured for not being “conservative” enough.
I will never understand why there always seems to “that one guy” on the ballot who you have to vote for and it’s often an unopposed incumbent. I’ve never written in another name but perhaps I will this fall. You’ve inspired me.
I’ve also never understood why people can’t seem to decide on a candidate before they even get in the booth. I would hate to be the person behind them waiting to vote. For myself, I do a pro/con sheet, look at their record (if there is one), look at their ratings, even their state legislative past. This is especially helpful for Congress and Senate dwellers.
Irish Rose:
Thank you so much for your kind words. I hope your son is okay and doing well. I just had a friend come back from Afghanistan (sigh) and he got mortered. He just laughed it off. Those Air National Guard maintainers are kind of crazy.
I know you get really shredded to bits on this blog but I want to say I do appreciate your unvarnished, plain-speaking honesty. It’s refreshing and not always appreciated by other conservatives. It’s going to be one of those election years where no matter what the military will just keep pushing even if the American public refuses to either appreciate them or acknowledge we’re even in a war.
It’s a hard climate for military members and their families. All we can do is support each other and implore the American people not to forget us.
Don’t worry. He’ll be back to dialogue with me. My turn in the box!
Texas Tiger
I would not call your analysis fear mongering. Yours is a rational review of what you perceive as the consequences of someone other than McCain in the White House. The fear mongering I was referring to was the rhetorical bludgeon being swung at people against McCain, implying that those not voting for McCain were actually socialists, Marxists or shill liberals. The comments that went far to note that a vote for anyone else would be the end of the world as we know it.
As I have pointed out, there are more than a few Democrats whom I would call partiots and who truly have a deep affection for this country (unfortunately, none of them are on the ballot). But, to accuse these people as well as members of the GOP who will not vote for McCain of harboring some deep seated desire to see this country fall because of a political boogey man is not only unfair, it is indeed vile. Vile because it is that very type of fear mongering that convinces people to give up some measure of what we in this country consider to be inalienable rights in order to supress not the threat but the fear. Such tactics have been used by despots since time immemorial, and it has had the most dire consequences.
I may be wrong, but I have not seen you advocate any such tactic here.
What is most distressing to me, is that no one can seem to be able to offer any positive agrument in favor of McCain. “He’s not as bad as the other guy” is not exactly the kind of inspiration people need to move away from principle and values.
Jim M:
It’s a pleasure to dialogue with you.
I agree that saying those refusing to support McCain are socialists, Marxists or shill liberals is over the top–as over the top as saying those who support McCain are amnesty advocates, unprincipled or my personal favorite, Reconquistas.
I think it is a positive reason to say McCain is better (ranging from marginally better to exceptionally better) on every issue across the board than either of his possible opponents.
I can’t say he’s better than Tancredo on immigration or better on health care than Giuliani, but both are out of the race now mooting the point.
Emjem24, if you actually did read this thread, you will notice that the real attacks and insults are from people allegedly supporting McCain. See examples of Irish Rose, one of the most beligerent. I am actually wondering if she or he is a plant here, since she is as bad as people on liberal sites like Huff Post. And by the way, re: judging others: most people who don’t read their Bibles have no idea what they are talking about when they say “don’t judge”. Obviously you are not clear on the issue either, which is a common mistake with some. There are no prohibitions of calling people out for their wrong actions, IN FACT IT IS OUR DUTY as Christians to call out other Christians on their sins, read your Bible before you call people judgmental. Critisism is healthy and good. Jesus went around and in public called rabbis liars, hyporctites, etc. He also wipped a few in the Temple. Does that sound critical enough or judgmental? Does Paul calling people out on their sins sound judgmental? Does the duty of a church to actually repremend PUBLICALLY a sinner sound jugmental? Judging is when you tell someone “you are going to hell” ’cause no one knows but God if that person will repent or not, that is judging. If I see that a candidate is a bad apple and produces bad fruit, I will and I am obligated to call them out on it. Many have fallen into the trap of liberalism, completely misinterpreting what basic Christian beliefs really mean (judging, forgiveness).
As to you Irish Rose, f you relly on polls like Pew and others, I suggest you examine some of the more recent polls that have been out there recently that turned out to be completely false. If you follow the political process other than inslut and belittle people here and prominent Christians like Dr. Dobson, you will know exactly what I am talking about. I am not here to enlighten you. Just review some of these, do your homework. And again, I asked you, are you are BO or Hillary supporter? You did not answer. You are so beligerent that I simply assume that even someone like John McCain would not want such support, as it only serves to turn people more against him. Are you a plant? Of course, I only expect more insults back from you and no real answers, so what use. So, bring on the nasty comments.
WOW! Has this thread kept hopping ALL DAY LONG!!! WHEEEE DOGGIES!!!!
Say, Sisyphus, I have a better idea.
Why don’t you pick someone who accurately reflects what it is you are looking for in a Statesman, preferably a real person who is alive, today, and a full-blooded American-born citizen, and write their name in, in November, anyway.
That way, your local and state party leadership gets a better idea of which way they should have been going the last 4 – 10 years.
It’ll be like giving them a chew bone to gnaw their teeth on, til the next election.
I’m considering writing in folks like Michelle Malkin, Oliver North, Ann Coulter, Franklin Graham…
Something serious, and real – just so they have a hint where they fouled up, in the way they let some candidates manipulate the system, this time.
That would be a positive reason – if it happened to be true.
However, those who do not agree with you have listed innumerable examples of what is wrong and in error in that statement – by citing McCain’s specific actions.
You have said nothing whatsoever to exonerate McCain, regarding the specific and serious impediments that a McCain candidacy offers to your dismissive and blanket assertion.
You need to back your play – it has NO credibility.
McCain doesn’t measure up to your assessment, in the eyes of the “buyers”/voters.
You are seriously resembling the antics of a salesman who is knowingly trying to palm off a defective product that he knows will cause immeasureable harm and discomfort, etc etc, et al, to the buyer.
I.e. – we have been specific about reasons that McCain is NOT better for selecting new judges, not better as a Commander in Chief, not better on homeland security, not better on taxes, and flat much more dangerous to American citizens who oppose his election due to his hot-tempered and vengeful nature.
You wave dismissively at such detailed specifics and repeat your bland platitudes.
You are worthy of your product, is all I can tell you.
Thanks for choosing your pasture and your shepherd. That is the main thing, in Life on this Earth! Above all else, in fact. It is good that you have passionately chosen decisively.
We are all glad that you have not merely settled dispassionately for “oh, whatever!”
It only lacks ONE REQUIREMENT to make MULTIPLE parties viable in the USA – and to take POWER FROM THE PARTIES THAT THE CONSTITUTION NEVER GRANTED THEM —
Like what DID NOT HAPPEN with Dole and Clinton, or Bush Sr. and Clinton.
There is an acceptance of some to turn inward and let the world fall apart at their feet – but I don’t find that attitude among those who are anti-McCain at all.
There is a divide – that is because WE ARE BORN IN SUCH A TIME AS THIS – it is the nature of the entire purpose for THESE DAYS.
In all of history to this point, each person had a full life in which to decide their own personal eternity, make the decisions about what kind of person they were determined to be, and who they decided to affiliate with.
But these times are different and unfortunately for some in denial of it – thousands of prophecies written down 2,000 – 3,000 years ago are confirming everything that is lining up these days along old-stated premises.
One group of the divide is of people willing to let the world fall apart at their feet – and while they find cheap fantasy excuses to justify their own selfish actions, they are actually deliberately shredding the fabric of the community they depend upon for life and substance and the issues of life.
It is similar in nature to a small and very isolated remote town, 200 years ago, starting rumors just for fun against the only person in 500 miles with a gift for healing, and medicines, and then something like typhoid or the measles strikes, and nobody will go to the only decent physician they have, because they have destroyed the support structure in the community that allows folks to help eachother in an emergency.
Today, millions of folks are engaged in the same practice – worse than anything we ever read about in history – worse even than tribes who used to throw virgins and strangers into the volcanoes to “appease the gods”.
Literally.
Go back 150 years and see how a trial could take place without all the rigamaroll and silliness it takes to prosecute someone the entire world may have even seen commit their crime on news footage and KNOW FOR A FACT they did it – and come out with something as stupid as the OJ jury did and half the nation goes around saying they “KNOW” he was “INNOCENT”.
And we all know that everyone knows, in fact – that half the folks saying that are doing so for political motives and NOT because of reasonal logical sense.
The reason for this is that we are at THE WIND-UP of THE AGES, of the issues of all of history of Man.
Happening now.
That is why a little nation like Israel is at the center of all news of the entire world, after it didn’t even exist for 2,000 years and is not KNOWN at this day to have anything of value for its neighbors to be trying to destroy her to STEAL, except for her HERITAGE with GOD ALMIGHTY and the COVENANT of Abraham and God Jehovah – which does NOT belong to ALL HUMAN BEINGS on this earth, even though it is AVAILABLE to all human beings on this earth.
Fact is, some folks are desperate to restore the structures of community that make a HEALTHY community – and some are desperate to destroy ANYTHING that benefits OTHERS – regardless of how that destruction affects themselves one way or the other.
This is THE CULLING SEASON.
And people are choosing their eternity.
This is not any longer a matter of choosing to “rise above it” or else “be doomed to taking one more trip around the mountain”.
This is “Deciding Forever”, where you are going to live the rest of your eternity.
So the divide is real, and it is serious – and it is not going to be reconciled, at least, not this side of a miraculous Revival.
Many believe that miraculous revival is already on the way.
It is one thing the Bible does NOT tell us in Prophecy.
It appears, the CHOICE is OURS!
That is why some of us are just as immoveable as the ones who once chose to walk into the Colliseum floor, rather than to deny their principles – regardless of the consequences – and were content to have it so.
That is why some will always rush to the Colliseum stadium seats and watch the show – and pretend that watching the Christians and Jews getting killed by lions is merely entertainment they are entitled to enjoy.
Some swayed with the wind when Pilate urged the crowds to select Jesus to go free for their holiday pardon, but they chose instead to insist on Barabas, or a Jesus Bar Jonas, at the urging of their leadership.
Nothing could entice me to put my stamp of approval on McCain. I feel as seriously about it as if you were asking me to trade my eternity for it.
I will write in a Conservative, in November.
Are you aware that if someone is assaulted, and files charges on the one who does the assaulting, then if later on, they reconcile with the assaulter, the authorities automatically – without consultation – drop all charges against the assaulter, and the one who is assaulted is NEVER allowed to reinstitute those charges, or to bring up those facts in evidence to support FUTURE charges of a similar nature?
i.e. but not limited to a beaten wife and the abusive husband, and she then drops her divorce suit and moves back in with him… etc, et al…
The RECONCILIATION is a LEGAL ACT of “FORGIVENESS” of ANYTHING that took place before the reconciliation, regardless of what it was or how heinous it might be.
You should think about the accountability you assume for “RECONCILING” with ALL of McCain’s record by voting for him, giving him your SIGNATURE “POWER OF ATTORNEY” OF AUTHORITY for the highest seat in American government – elevating above where he was previously, to the highest honor you can pay him.
It is the same act of forgiveness and ENDORSEMENT and BACKING HIS PLAY with all the authority you have to give a politician. And by the Constitution of the United States of America – that is ALL the power of Government – in your hands, that you would hand to him – because the AMERICAN CITIZEN WHO VOTES is the REPOSITOR of ALL LEGITIMATE CONSTITUTIONAL POWER in America for the government to operate – AND YOU ARE ABOUT TO HAND IT TO JOHN McCAIN in blessing and forgiveness, blotting out ALL his prior sins against America and our Constitution.
Last week, someone said she was going to vote for him in spite of her misgivings and how she hated McCain Feingold – BUT HOPED THE SUPREME COURT WOULD STILL OVERTURN McCAIN FEINGOLD.
TECHNICALLY AND LEGALLY AND CONSTITUTIONALLY, how could the Supreme Court do such a thing to his SIGNATURE LEGISLATION in the face of his Election by the CITIZENS of the USA???
I say NO!
And when you consider what the Founding Fathers went through on account of The Stamp Act…
If WE don’t have an EXCUSE to stand for Principle and Integrity NOW – HOW DAST THEY rise up against their king!!!!
STANDING O!
MAJOR MEGA DITTOS!!!
AMEN! HALLELUJAH!!! AMEN!!!
BRAVO!!! BRAVO!!!
WHAT WOULD REAGAN THINK OF MCCAIN? –
“We don’t intend to turn the Republican Party over to the traitors in the battle just ended. We will have no more of those candidates who are pledged to the same goals of our opposition and who seek our support. Turning the party over to the so-called moderates wouldn’t make any sense at all.”
– Ronald Reagan commenting on “moderate” Republicans who didn’t support Goldwater in 1964
I can support my position by moseying over to http://www.votesmart.org and mining the data there.
So we can go about satisfying your request one of two ways:
1) You pick one issue or the interest group that best represents your perspective and I’ll bring back the data supporting my statement or
2) You bring back data showing Oh!b♥m♥/Clint♂n take a more conservative approach on any one mainstream issue and I’ll retract my statement that McCain is better across the board.
Deal or no deal?
#431 Ombre Rose
And just what exactly, does your religious leadership urge YOU to do?
Show me that Obama and Hillary are more Liberal about McCain Feingold Thompson/The Fairness Doctrine, and also McCain Kennedy Shamnesty – show me that they have said more accusing our military of TORTURE than McCain, and demanding more than he does via HIM REQUIRING ACLU APPROVED standards for trials for terrorists in America before civilian courts with FULL American citizenship rights – and more recently, a crash course to teach AMericans NOT TO FEEL THE NEED TO RESORT TO TORTURE of TERRORISTS.
I’d cite those references again, but I have before to no response.
Ann Coulter, Fox News, Mark Levin, George Will, etc, etc, etc, etc blah blah blah…
But no, they are not on Vote.Smart. prolly.
Still, he was all over the press in campaign season taking a mighty and very articulate stand on these things.
I haven’t seen all the dims put together mount such an attack.
You vote your conscience – I’ll vote mine.
Christian religious leadership is all over the place.
Several leadership men I know personally, one is a missionary in Southern Mexico, will not vote for McCain or for Huckabee, either one.
They aren’t the kind to preach – they are the kind who DO.
The preachiest they are comfortable with is passing out Bibles in the native language of the person receiving them.
I, on the other hand, am extremely comfortable discussing the details of the Bible stories and fundamental principles – and breaking them down to practical applications.
I can name a dozen Biblical principles off the top of my head that I am very comfortable applying to this vote, and to all three candidates.
I find nothing at all in the Bible that encourages me to settle for the likes of McCain for the sake of the GOP – which as far as I am concerned will do NOTHING WHATSOEVER for the BENEFIT of the USA.
What I found, early this morning was in fact a message from a Christian leader that I highly respect who was talking about our provisions coming AT THE SIGNATURE OF GOD being affixed upon them.
Funny, I see a VOTE as being the same type thing as a signature on a title deed or mortgage, either one or both.
I don’t see McCain coming with a Signature of God, or His Thumbprint, being as it were, a confirmation of his selection, such as Moses or Joseph, David or Nathan, or Micaiah, or Jeremiah.
Rather, McCain reminds me that at the time of Jesus, the political leaders were Herod, Pilate …
Now, for instance, you take Pilate – who at least had the sense to wash his hands, literally, figuratively, and most importantly, LEGALLY, of the issues of Jesus – but somehow, I don’t think Jesus “FELT THE LOVE”, if you know what I mean.
Herod – he just had himself a party. Later on, he glorified himself with great pleasure – and was smote of Angels and died – I won’t go into the gross details at this time. They were gross.
Herod reminds me of Korah, who tried to usurp the position of Moses without the blessing of God – Numbers 16. He reminds me of McCain. All the time.
I cannot find an obedient servant of God that reminds me of McCain. Not even one of the many stupid ones who manage to do many fatally flawed idiotic things in between obedience to God – Abraham, included.
me, too, natch.
NOWHERE do I find God commanding His people to “settle” for such a leader who is arrogant, beligerant, self-gratifying, proud – just because it is “the best” their “system” would “let” them do.
THIS SYSTEM that would NOT LET US CHOOSE A LEADER TO OUR LIKING is NOT to be compared with how our FOUNDING FATHERS chose their leaders.
I find NOTHING in our Constitution that COMMANDS I GIVE AUTHORITY to a man whom I do not trust – the AUTHORITY contained in MY VOTE is MINE to give, NOT THE GOP’s to take, nor McCain’s to take for granted. I OWE THEM NOTHING.
HE has SCORNED to earn our respect.
He has also scorned to view any office he holds as that of a Public Servant.
I will NOT SHOULDER the accountability for his conduct before my God.
It is a serious thing to ENABLE something.
Please read Ann Coulter’s latest column.
BTW, do you remember Algore telling us Christians we coud know he was with us because his favorite Bible verse was John 16:3?
Did you know that the very center verse of the entire Bible is Psalm 118:8?
That the shortest chapter is Psalm 117, the longest is Psalm 119 – and Psalm 118 has 594 chapters before it, and 594 after it?
Why don’t you take a minute to read them both?
Ombre:
You’re reading a lot into what my support actual means. You’re reading a lot into what’s going on in my heart and mind. You’re reading a lot into someone you’re not only shouting at but even flaming.
I have not “forgiven” or “relented” or even “blessed” Mr. Shamnesty. My vote is against O’bummer or Hilly. My vote is against catastrophic, unwarranted governmental interference with the health care industry. I do not agree with him on torture, finance reform, or immigration, but I disagree with the Dems on a whole lot more. I’m sorry but nothing much will be accomplished by any of the three candidates no matter who wins the election.
I thought I had already established with both you and RIC that we agreed to disagree. To treat me like I’m some “battered wife” giving into her “abusive husband” is not only a false premise it’s disrespectful. I also find your strident tone to not help what apparently will occur if the conservative movement keeps truckin’ all the way off the cliff: an explosive implosion.
This infighing I’m seeing now not only within the movement but on Michelle’s blog of who or who is not a “true” conservative is unbecoming of us. We used to be better than this, even Reagan implored all of us not to insult our fellow Republicans.
No matter how you kick and scream, Ombre, a liberal will become president. Nothing will be done about issues like immigration unless we all can convince not only independents, but moderates, and even Dems to change allegiances and stop buying the “change is good” game. We’re seeing a striking example at the local/state political level in Minnesota at what happens when you vote in liberal Dems to turn the other way when they know illegals are in their midst.
Again, conservatives need to vote for or even run candidates who will be staunch conservatives. We cannot change anything in this country unless it starts at a grass roots local, then state, then national level. The GOP is no longer a united party because it did away with its principles (that I believe in) but even that doesn’t mean I will EVER vote for a Dem.
One further note: I have an aunt in an abusive relationship. I’m estranged from her but she’s been offered help several times to get out of that situation. I find your domestic analogy just plain disgraceful. My comments to you in the past did not warrant your BLATANT disrespect and misuse of caps to the point my eyes need to readjust to their sockets.
If you cannot even talk to me as a civilized human being (and this also goes for RIC, Rags, etc) then wasn’t this just a pointless conversation on your part? Do you feel better for having shouted at me on a conservative blog. I think even Michelle would have to draw a line somewhere, don’t you?
RIC:
Patently untrue. Some, like Ombre, have implied that I’m compromising my principles. I’m acting like a “battered wife” so to speak. Please, if you were the least bit honest, you’d recognize that you and your troupe are just as insulting. The very suggestion that the insults are coming from one direction is snort worthy.
Any time someone uses HuffPo to make themselves the injured party it backfires. IR is a military mom and equally passionate as you. Why can’t you respect that?
Using the bible as a defense for judgement is also quite hilarious. I don’t need to read a bible to discern petty, craven human behavior in both blogs and real life. If we were living life based on the bible, such practices as multiple wives, whippings, crucifying Christians, would be common place. I’ve found that “Christians” are some of the most judgemental people in the world. My younger sister, a “Christian,” looked down on my marrying someone in the military. How quaint.
I agree with this. However, your “criticism” spills into angry tirades toward those you disagree with.
I’ve also been tsked tsked by Ombre for “forgiveness” in my support for McCain. I think your notion of judgement and forgiveness is very selective. Many people misuse the bible’s teaching to suit themselves and prop up how right they are and how wrong everybody else is.
Doesn’t the bible teach forgiveness and wary judgement? So, basically, I’m supposed to “not” forgive McCain because, in your opinion, I can forgive some people but not others? Because you think that you’ve lived a perfect life, you can now judge others? I thought that forgiveness and judgement were personal choices? Your values seem inconsistent with those of the bible.