Emjem24, if you actually did read this thread, you will notice that the real attacks and insults are from people allegedly supporting McCain.

Patently untrue. Some, like Ombre, have implied that I’m compromising my principles. I’m acting like a “battered wife” so to speak. Please, if you were the least bit honest, you’d recognize that you and your troupe are just as insulting. The very suggestion that the insults are coming from one direction is snort worthy.

See examples of Irish Rose, one of the most beligerent. I am actually wondering if she or he is a plant here, since she is as bad as people on liberal sites like Huff Post.

Any time someone uses HuffPo to make themselves the injured party it backfires. IR is a military mom and equally passionate as you. Why can’t you respect that?

And by the way, re: judging others: most people who don’t read their Bibles have no idea what they are talking about when they say “don’t judge”. Obviously you are not clear on the issue either, which is a common mistake with some.

Using the bible as a defense for judgement is also quite hilarious. I don’t need to read a bible to discern petty, craven human behavior in both blogs and real life. If we were living life based on the bible, such practices as multiple wives, whippings, crucifying Christians, would be common place. I’ve found that “Christians” are some of the most judgemental people in the world. My younger sister, a “Christian,” looked down on my marrying someone in the military. How quaint.

Critisism is healthy and good.

I agree with this. However, your “criticism” spills into angry tirades toward those you disagree with.

If I see that a candidate is a bad apple and produces bad fruit, I will and I am obligated to call them out on it. Many have fallen into the trap of liberalism, completely misinterpreting what basic Christian beliefs really mean (judging, forgiveness).

I’ve also been tsked tsked by Ombre for “forgiveness” in my support for McCain. I think your notion of judgement and forgiveness is very selective. Many people misuse the bible’s teaching to suit themselves and prop up how right they are and how wrong everybody else is.

Doesn’t the bible teach forgiveness and wary judgement? So, basically, I’m supposed to “not” forgive McCain because, in your opinion, I can forgive some people but not others? Because you think that you’ve lived a perfect life, you can now judge others? I thought that forgiveness and judgement were personal choices? Your values seem inconsistent with those of the bible.

You’re reading a lot into what my support actual means. You’re reading a lot into what’s going on in my heart and mind. You’re reading a lot into someone you’re not only shouting at but even flaming.

I have not “forgiven” or “relented” or even “blessed” Mr. Shamnesty. My vote is against O’bummer or Hilly. My vote is against catastrophic, unwarranted governmental interference with the health care industry. I do not agree with him on torture, finance reform, or immigration, but I disagree with the Dems on a whole lot more. I’m sorry but nothing much will be accomplished by any of the three candidates no matter who wins the election.

I thought I had already established with both you and RIC that we agreed to disagree. To treat me like I’m some “battered wife” giving into her “abusive husband” is not only a false premise it’s disrespectful. I also find your strident tone to not help what apparently will occur if the conservative movement keeps truckin’ all the way off the cliff: an explosive implosion.

This infighing I’m seeing now not only within the movement but on Michelle’s blog of who or who is not a “true” conservative is unbecoming of us. We used to be better than this, even Reagan implored all of us not to insult our fellow Republicans.

No matter how you kick and scream, Ombre, a liberal will become president. Nothing will be done about issues like immigration unless we all can convince not only independents, but moderates, and even Dems to change allegiances and stop buying the “change is good” game. We’re seeing a striking example at the local/state political level in Minnesota at what happens when you vote in liberal Dems to turn the other way when they know illegals are in their midst.

Again, conservatives need to vote for or even run candidates who will be staunch conservatives. We cannot change anything in this country unless it starts at a grass roots local, then state, then national level. The GOP is no longer a united party because it did away with its principles (that I believe in) but even that doesn’t mean I will EVER vote for a Dem.

One further note: I have an aunt in an abusive relationship. I’m estranged from her but she’s been offered help several times to get out of that situation. I find your domestic analogy just plain disgraceful. My comments to you in the past did not warrant your BLATANT disrespect and misuse of caps to the point my eyes need to readjust to their sockets.

If you cannot even talk to me as a civilized human being (and this also goes for RIC, Rags, etc) then wasn’t this just a pointless conversation on your part? Do you feel better for having shouted at me on a conservative blog. I think even Michelle would have to draw a line somewhere, don’t you?

On February 20th, 2008 at 10:30 am, Irish Rose said:
#431 Ombre Rose

And just what exactly, does your religious leadership urge YOU to do?

Christian religious leadership is all over the place.

Several leadership men I know personally, one is a missionary in Southern Mexico, will not vote for McCain or for Huckabee, either one.
They aren’t the kind to preach – they are the kind who DO.
The preachiest they are comfortable with is passing out Bibles in the native language of the person receiving them.

I, on the other hand, am extremely comfortable discussing the details of the Bible stories and fundamental principles – and breaking them down to practical applications.

I can name a dozen Biblical principles off the top of my head that I am very comfortable applying to this vote, and to all three candidates.

I find nothing at all in the Bible that encourages me to settle for the likes of McCain for the sake of the GOP – which as far as I am concerned will do NOTHING WHATSOEVER for the BENEFIT of the USA.

What I found, early this morning was in fact a message from a Christian leader that I highly respect who was talking about our provisions coming AT THE SIGNATURE OF GOD being affixed upon them.

Funny, I see a VOTE as being the same type thing as a signature on a title deed or mortgage, either one or both.

I don’t see McCain coming with a Signature of God, or His Thumbprint, being as it were, a confirmation of his selection, such as Moses or Joseph, David or Nathan, or Micaiah, or Jeremiah.

Rather, McCain reminds me that at the time of Jesus, the political leaders were Herod, Pilate …

Now, for instance, you take Pilate – who at least had the sense to wash his hands, literally, figuratively, and most importantly, LEGALLY, of the issues of Jesus – but somehow, I don’t think Jesus “FELT THE LOVE”, if you know what I mean.

Herod – he just had himself a party. Later on, he glorified himself with great pleasure – and was smote of Angels and died – I won’t go into the gross details at this time. They were gross.

Herod reminds me of Korah, who tried to usurp the position of Moses without the blessing of God – Numbers 16. He reminds me of McCain. All the time.

I cannot find an obedient servant of God that reminds me of McCain. Not even one of the many stupid ones who manage to do many fatally flawed idiotic things in between obedience to God – Abraham, included.
me, too, natch.

NOWHERE do I find God commanding His people to “settle” for such a leader who is arrogant, beligerant, self-gratifying, proud – just because it is “the best” their “system” would “let” them do.

THIS SYSTEM that would NOT LET US CHOOSE A LEADER TO OUR LIKING is NOT to be compared with how our FOUNDING FATHERS chose their leaders.

I find NOTHING in our Constitution that COMMANDS I GIVE AUTHORITY to a man whom I do not trust – the AUTHORITY contained in MY VOTE is MINE to give, NOT THE GOP’s to take, nor McCain’s to take for granted. I OWE THEM NOTHING.
HE has SCORNED to earn our respect.
He has also scorned to view any office he holds as that of a Public Servant.

I will NOT SHOULDER the accountability for his conduct before my God.
It is a serious thing to ENABLE something.

Please read Ann Coulter’s latest column.

BTW, do you remember Algore telling us Christians we coud know he was with us because his favorite Bible verse was John 16:3?

Did you know that the very center verse of the entire Bible is Psalm 118:8?

That the shortest chapter is Psalm 117, the longest is Psalm 119 – and Psalm 118 has 594 chapters before it, and 594 after it?

Why don’t you take a minute to read them both?

On February 20th, 2008 at 9:00 am, TexasTiger said:

Show me that Obama and Hillary are more Liberal about McCain Feingold Thompson/The Fairness Doctrine, and also McCain Kennedy Shamnesty – show me that they have said more accusing our military of TORTURE than McCain, and demanding more than he does via HIM REQUIRING ACLU APPROVED standards for trials for terrorists in America before civilian courts with FULL American citizenship rights – and more recently, a crash course to teach AMericans NOT TO FEEL THE NEED TO RESORT TO TORTURE of TERRORISTS.

I’d cite those references again, but I have before to no response.
Ann Coulter, Fox News, Mark Levin, George Will, etc, etc, etc, etc blah blah blah…

But no, they are not on Vote.Smart. prolly.
Still, he was all over the press in campaign season taking a mighty and very articulate stand on these things.
I haven’t seen all the dims put together mount such an attack.

You vote your conscience – I’ll vote mine.

And just what exactly, does your religious leadership urge YOU to do?

On February 20th, 2008 at 12:47 am, Ombre Rose said:

I think it is a positive reason to say McCain is better (ranging from marginally better to exceptionally better) on every issue across the board than either of his possible [Dim...Ombre Rose comment] opponents.

That would be a positive reason – if it happened to be true.

However, those who do not agree with you have listed innumerable examples of what is wrong and in error in that statement – by citing McCain’s specific actions.

You have said nothing whatsoever to exonerate McCain, regarding the specific and serious impediments that a McCain candidacy offers to your dismissive and blanket assertion.

You need to back your play – it has NO credibility.

I can support my position by moseying over to http://www.votesmart.org and mining the data there.

So we can go about satisfying your request one of two ways:

1) You pick one issue or the interest group that best represents your perspective and I’ll bring back the data supporting my statement or
2) You bring back data showing Oh!b♥m♥/Clint♂n take a more conservative approach on any one mainstream issue and I’ll retract my statement that McCain is better across the board.

Deal or no deal?

“We don’t intend to turn the Republican Party over to the traitors in the battle just ended. We will have no more of those candidates who are pledged to the same goals of our opposition and who seek our support. Turning the party over to the so-called moderates wouldn’t make any sense at all.”

– Ronald Reagan commenting on “moderate” Republicans who didn’t support Goldwater in 1964

On February 19th, 2008 at 2:09 pm, Jim M. said:

STANDING O!

MAJOR MEGA DITTOS!!!

AMEN! HALLELUJAH!!! AMEN!!!

BRAVO!!! BRAVO!!!

On February 19th, 2008 at 4:32 pm, Jim M. said:

And when you consider what the Founding Fathers went through on account of The Stamp Act…

If WE don’t have an EXCUSE to stand for Principle and Integrity NOW – HOW DAST THEY rise up against their king!!!!

On February 19th, 2008 at 11:18 am, emjem24 said:
…I hate that McCain is a slimey, changeable politician but that’s what he is (as is most of the Washington establishment including Hillary and Obama). I have not forgotten his shamnesty crusade and was one of those petitioning for its defeat. However, Obama and Hillary are no better. I still support McCain because at least he supports the military (even if fellow conservatives think otherwise). …

Are you aware that if someone is assaulted, and files charges on the one who does the assaulting, then if later on, they reconcile with the assaulter, the authorities automatically – without consultation – drop all charges against the assaulter, and the one who is assaulted is NEVER allowed to reinstitute those charges, or to bring up those facts in evidence to support FUTURE charges of a similar nature?
i.e. but not limited to a beaten wife and the abusive husband, and she then drops her divorce suit and moves back in with him… etc, et al…

The RECONCILIATION is a LEGAL ACT of “FORGIVENESS” of ANYTHING that took place before the reconciliation, regardless of what it was or how heinous it might be.

You should think about the accountability you assume for “RECONCILING” with ALL of McCain’s record by voting for him, giving him your SIGNATURE “POWER OF ATTORNEY” OF AUTHORITY for the highest seat in American government – elevating above where he was previously, to the highest honor you can pay him.

It is the same act of forgiveness and ENDORSEMENT and BACKING HIS PLAY with all the authority you have to give a politician. And by the Constitution of the United States of America – that is ALL the power of Government – in your hands, that you would hand to him – because the AMERICAN CITIZEN WHO VOTES is the REPOSITOR of ALL LEGITIMATE CONSTITUTIONAL POWER in America for the government to operate – AND YOU ARE ABOUT TO HAND IT TO JOHN McCAIN in blessing and forgiveness, blotting out ALL his prior sins against America and our Constitution.

Last week, someone said she was going to vote for him in spite of her misgivings and how she hated McCain Feingold – BUT HOPED THE SUPREME COURT WOULD STILL OVERTURN McCAIN FEINGOLD.

TECHNICALLY AND LEGALLY AND CONSTITUTIONALLY, how could the Supreme Court do such a thing to his SIGNATURE LEGISLATION in the face of his Election by the CITIZENS of the USA???

I say NO!

emjem24 said:
I think there is a greater idea at work on this blog than just mere disagreement among conservatives. The assertions by anti-McCain folks leads to a greater conclusion: our country is so divided that we will never come together again. I’ve seen it in the patent refusal to discuss the future of the GWOT on both sides. There’s an acceptance to turn inward, let the world fall apart at our feet. What happened to us?

There is an acceptance of some to turn inward and let the world fall apart at their feet – but I don’t find that attitude among those who are anti-McCain at all.

There is a divide – that is because WE ARE BORN IN SUCH A TIME AS THIS – it is the nature of the entire purpose for THESE DAYS.

In all of history to this point, each person had a full life in which to decide their own personal eternity, make the decisions about what kind of person they were determined to be, and who they decided to affiliate with.

But these times are different and unfortunately for some in denial of it – thousands of prophecies written down 2,000 – 3,000 years ago are confirming everything that is lining up these days along old-stated premises.

One group of the divide is of people willing to let the world fall apart at their feet – and while they find cheap fantasy excuses to justify their own selfish actions, they are actually deliberately shredding the fabric of the community they depend upon for life and substance and the issues of life.

It is similar in nature to a small and very isolated remote town, 200 years ago, starting rumors just for fun against the only person in 500 miles with a gift for healing, and medicines, and then something like typhoid or the measles strikes, and nobody will go to the only decent physician they have, because they have destroyed the support structure in the community that allows folks to help eachother in an emergency.

Today, millions of folks are engaged in the same practice – worse than anything we ever read about in history – worse even than tribes who used to throw virgins and strangers into the volcanoes to “appease the gods”.

Literally.

Go back 150 years and see how a trial could take place without all the rigamaroll and silliness it takes to prosecute someone the entire world may have even seen commit their crime on news footage and KNOW FOR A FACT they did it – and come out with something as stupid as the OJ jury did and half the nation goes around saying they “KNOW” he was “INNOCENT”.

And we all know that everyone knows, in fact – that half the folks saying that are doing so for political motives and NOT because of reasonal logical sense.

The reason for this is that we are at THE WIND-UP of THE AGES, of the issues of all of history of Man.
Happening now.

That is why a little nation like Israel is at the center of all news of the entire world, after it didn’t even exist for 2,000 years and is not KNOWN at this day to have anything of value for its neighbors to be trying to destroy her to STEAL, except for her HERITAGE with GOD ALMIGHTY and the COVENANT of Abraham and God Jehovah – which does NOT belong to ALL HUMAN BEINGS on this earth, even though it is AVAILABLE to all human beings on this earth.

Fact is, some folks are desperate to restore the structures of community that make a HEALTHY community – and some are desperate to destroy ANYTHING that benefits OTHERS – regardless of how that destruction affects themselves one way or the other.

This is THE CULLING SEASON.

And people are choosing their eternity.

This is not any longer a matter of choosing to “rise above it” or else “be doomed to taking one more trip around the mountain”.

This is “Deciding Forever”, where you are going to live the rest of your eternity.

So the divide is real, and it is serious – and it is not going to be reconciled, at least, not this side of a miraculous Revival.

Many believe that miraculous revival is already on the way.

It is one thing the Bible does NOT tell us in Prophecy.

It appears, the CHOICE is OURS!

That is why some of us are just as immoveable as the ones who once chose to walk into the Colliseum floor, rather than to deny their principles – regardless of the consequences – and were content to have it so.

That is why some will always rush to the Colliseum stadium seats and watch the show – and pretend that watching the Christians and Jews getting killed by lions is merely entertainment they are entitled to enjoy.

Some swayed with the wind when Pilate urged the crowds to select Jesus to go free for their holiday pardon, but they chose instead to insist on Barabas, or a Jesus Bar Jonas, at the urging of their leadership.

Nothing could entice me to put my stamp of approval on McCain. I feel as seriously about it as if you were asking me to trade my eternity for it.

I will write in a Conservative, in November.

We have a system that…for fundamental reasons…isn’t good for a multi-party political arrangement. A third party will never (barring some cataclysm) be viable. That means I’m left with the GOP, essentially, as the place I find common cause. That place needs some reform, or I will be an alien there…essentially without a political home.

It only lacks ONE REQUIREMENT to make MULTIPLE parties viable in the USA – and to take POWER FROM THE PARTIES THAT THE CONSTITUTION NEVER GRANTED THEM —

All we have to do is require any race without a 50%PLUS victory to have the TOP TWO candidates have a MANDATORY RUNOFF.

Like what DID NOT HAPPEN with Dole and Clinton, or Bush Sr. and Clinton.

I think it is a positive reason to say McCain is better (ranging from marginally better to exceptionally better) on every issue across the board than either of his possible [Dim]opponents.

That would be a positive reason – if it happened to be true.

However, those who do not agree with you have listed innumerable examples of what is wrong and in error in that statement – by citing McCain’s specific actions.

You have said nothing whatsoever to exonerate McCain, regarding the specific and serious impediments that a McCain candidacy offers to your dismissive and blanket assertion.

You need to back your play – it has NO credibility.

McCain doesn’t measure up to your assessment, in the eyes of the “buyers”/voters.

You are seriously resembling the antics of a salesman who is knowingly trying to palm off a defective product that he knows will cause immeasureable harm and discomfort, etc etc, et al, to the buyer.

I.e. – we have been specific about reasons that McCain is NOT better for selecting new judges, not better as a Commander in Chief, not better on homeland security, not better on taxes, and flat much more dangerous to American citizens who oppose his election due to his hot-tempered and vengeful nature.

You wave dismissively at such detailed specifics and repeat your bland platitudes.

You are worthy of your product, is all I can tell you.

Thanks for choosing your pasture and your shepherd. That is the main thing, in Life on this Earth! Above all else, in fact. It is good that you have passionately chosen decisively.

We are all glad that you have not merely settled dispassionately for “oh, whatever!”