The swan song of Hillary Rodham Clinton?; Update:Clinton and Obama are now against the Secure Fence Act they both voted for; Update: Hillary snarks on Obama’s “change that you can Xerox;” Update: Hillary gets shrieky over universal health care; Update: Hillary ends on a Miss Congeniality/valedictory note
Scroll down for updates…here’s the “change that you can Xerox” video… “Lifting whole passages from someone else is not change you can believe in, it’s change you can Xerox.” Who wrote it? Knowing Washington, we’ll know soon enough…Hillary’s ending statement is being categorized by all the talking heads as “valedictory”…Like I said: Swan song…
No, you can’t count her out. But just what exactly can Hillary Clinton do during tonight’s CNN debate in Texas to turn things around? What would define a “win” for Hill tonight–short of a full Obama meltdown, which isn’t going to happen? The show begins at 8pm. This ABC poll says she’s ahead in Ohio and it’s tight in Texas. Will the new anti-Obama 527 come up?
Stand by for the liveblog. Popcorn ready, but no Red Bull.
Update 8:02pm Eastern. This debate is co-sponsored by open-borders, Spanish-language media giant Univision. Founded by McCain national campaign finance co-chair Jerry Perenchio.
Univision anchor Jorge Ramos is one of the questioners.
Look for plenty of opportunities for shamnesty pandering tonight.
8:06pm Eastern. Clinton gets the first opening statement. She registered voters in Austin and San Antonio. Clinton invokes the late Barbara Jordan. It’s Jordan’s birthday. Jordan, a staunch amnesty opponent and outspoken immigration enforcement activist, would be rolling over in her grave knowing Clinton’s using her name. Clinton invokes Ann Richards. Eh. Clinton brags about starting S-CHIP. Segues into health insurance company-bashing. Mentions HER EXPERIENCE.
Not a word about immigration. Or those, ahem, holes in the wall.
8:10 pm Eastern. Obama’s turn. He says he’ll be friends with Hillary after, she was friends with her before. Unification, baby. He’s sick and his voice is hoarse. Obama mentions the predatory loan victims he mentioned the other day. Uh-oh! Hillary forget to mention her pet issue! Must be cursing under her breath. Obama mentions jobs moving overseas. Obama mentions his anti-war bracelet. Doesn’t mention his lack of a flag lapel pin. What’s lacking right now is not good ideas. The problem is that Washington has become a place where good ideas go to die. (Applause). Now comes the usual anti-special interest attack…and the “bring people together” spiel.
Now, Obama invokes Barbara Jordan. “I want America to be as good as its promise.”
Univision’s Jorge Ramos to Hillary: “Would you be willing to sit down with Raoul Castro at least just one?”
Hillary: “I hope we have an opportunity…I’ll be looking for changes…releasing political prisoners, freeing up the press…I would be willing to reach out once they demonstrated they were truly willing to change direction…I would not meet with him until there was evidence that change was happening…”
Campbell Brown to Obama: “Presumably, you would meet with Raoul Castro?” Obama: “I would meet without preconditions…but with ‘preparations’ first…We have to talk to our enemies, not just to our friends…” Wants loosening of restrictions on remittances and travel restrictions. “I wouldn’t normalize relations until we saw change…I support the eventual normalization.”
No, I don’t get exactly what his position is. Do you?
Hillary wants to reach out to Iran. She would “use bipartisan diplomacy!” The era of unilateralism and arrogance of this administration is over. Applause. Hillary’s beaming. She’s really, really happy with her answer.
Obama wants to get a last talk-to-our-enemies word in. “It’s important for us in undoing the damage that has been done to take this step.”
8:23pm Eastern. John King changes to the economy. “How would Pres. Obama be different in managing the nation’s economy?”
“Restore balance and fairness.” End tax breaks to companies overseas. Offset payroll tax. Repeal Bush tax cuts. Applause. “Create a green economy!” Wave the magic wand: Windmills! Solar power!
Hillary: “The wealthy and well-connected have had a president for the last seven years. It’s about time the rest of us had a president for us.”
“The rest of us”–you know, like the Clintons, who have a net worth of between $10-$50 million Snort.
Hillary: I can’t concentrate on what she’s blabbering about, but she started shrieking about “Bush’s War on Science.”
Jorge Ramos goes to immigration. He’s complaining about federal raids. “Would you consider stopping these raids until comprehensive immigration reform passes?”
Hillary: “I would consider that, except in egregious situations.” She demagogues about children being left without parents. Babies left without parents.
She’s for cracking down on federal employers, but not doing anything about illegal alien employees. “We need a path to legalization to bring the immigrants out of the shadows.” Blah-blah. “If they committed a crime, they should be deported. But a path to everyone else.” Who illegally entered the country. Would introduce “comprehensive immigration reform” in her first 100 days.
Obama. He’s for immigration reform, too. “It’s absolutely critical that we tone down the rhetoric.” “We have seen hate crimes skyrocket.”
No, unfortunately, he’s not talking about illegal alien gangs targeting black Americans.
Obama mentions the legal immigration backlog and increasing fees.
“We have to improve relations with Mexico.” He assails Bush for dropping the ball on Mexico. “We haven’t seen the kind of outreach and cooperative work.”
Clueless.
Two words: Merida Initiative.
8:37pm Eastern. John King raises the border fence.
King to Hillary: Would you commit tonight to finish the fence and speed up construction or say, wait a minute, do we really want to do this?
The UT-Brownsville would have part of its campus cut off. Passport requirements to the north are interfering.
“We need to review this. We were voting for the possibility that where it was appropriate, it would be built. Bush is going off the deep end.”
1) That’s not what the law said.
2) The problem is not that Bush is going too far. It’s that they have dragged their feet and pandered every bit as much as the Democrats.
Hillary says we should do “Smart Fencing.” Now, she doesn’t want physical barriers.
Even though she (and Obama both) voted for the Secure Fence Act.
Obama: “The key is to consult with local communities…I will reverse that policy…” He wants everything but a fence now.
Obama invokes the specious “we can’t deport all 12 million undocumented” card.
8:43pm Eastern. Obama wants to pass the DREAM Act illegal alien tuition benefits legislation.
Jorge Ramos speaks Spanish. “Is there any down side to the US becoming a bilingual nation?”
Hillary: It’s important for Americans to become bilingual. But it’s important that English remain our common, unifying language.
8:47pm Eastern. Commercial break. Nasty Hillary has not made an appearance tonight.
All platitudes, no vinegar tonight.
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
8:52pm Eastern. John King tries to wake everyone up with a question about the “parallel universe” in which Hillary/Obama attack each other on the campaign trail and talk cordially next to each during debates. King: Are you saying your opponent is all hat and no cattle and how can you say that after the last 40 minutes?
Hillary: “I do offer solutions…it’s part of my life.” Blah, blah. No attacks. She’s Miss Congeniality. There are differences between our records. Hillary mentions the Hardball exchange with Kirk Watson, who couldn’t name an accomplishment of Obama’s. “Actions speak louder than words.”
Obama: “I do think actions speak louder than words. Which is why over the last 20 years, I’ve acted a lot to provide health care, reform criminal justice system, reform ethics system, create transparency in government…mentions wounded warriors at Walter Reed who had to pay for their meals and phone calls before he came to Senate…they would say I’m not just talk, but action.”
8:56pm Eastern. Obama ribs Clinton for calling his supporters “delusional”…he mentions all his newspaper endorsements in Texas…”I think they perceive the reality in Washington quite clearly…The reason that this campaign has done so well that people understand that it’s not just a matter of putting forward policy positions…if we can’t inspire people to get involved in their government, get beyond racial divisions, regional devisions, religious devisions…I’m running for president to start doing something about suffering and so are the people behind my campaign.”
Huge applause. Longest applause of the night.
8:58pm Eastern. Campbell Brown brings up Hillary plagiarism charges. Obama says Deval Patrick gave him the lines to use. The suggestion that this is plagiarism is silly. Big applause. This is where we start getting into silly season and people start getting discouraged. What people want is how are we going to get good jobs and wages, college is affordable, etc. What I’ve been saying in these speeches–and I have to admit, some of them are pretty good–big applause–I’ve been talking about changing tax code, college loans, bringing end to war in Iraq…We should be spending time lifting people up.
Well, I’d say he has pulled the rug out under Hillary on this issue.
Hillary has a frozen smile. If you’re candidacy is about words, they should be your own. These aren’t changes that you can believe in, it’s change you can Xerox.
9:01pm Eastern. Boos. Hillary condescends. “You are a passionate speaker.”
Obama: “That’s not right.” Hillary is booed.
Hillary talks about foreclosures, health care. “We’ve got to look hard at the difficult challenges we face once George Bush is gone.” Blah blah.
Obama moves on to talking about health reform differences. Old territory.
9:06pm Eastern. Obama razzes Hillary over her secretive conduct during the 1994 health care debacle. Score.
Commercial break.
9:13pm Eastern. Hillary is getting shrieky over the health insurance mandate thing.
Guess what? Newsflash, Clinton camp: This thing has been rehashed over 5-6 other debates. It’s not a winning issue for Hillary. It’s not damaging Obama.
9:22pm Eastern. Rehashing Iraq. Leadership. Change. Nothing you haven’t heard before.
9:33pm Eastern. Obama gets a question on earmarks. He mentions teaming up with GOP Sen. Tom Coburn on googling for government to open up process.
Hillary has the audacity to talk about the US borrowing money from China to give to Saudi Arabia.
Her voice is getting really, really intolerable.
Agh.
9:38pm Eastern. Campbell Brown asks really, really dumb questions. She needs to host a daytime talk show and stay there. “What was your moment of crisis?” Obama recounts his entire life. Hillary jokes about how she’s “been through many crises in her life.” Smiles. Basks in applause.
I can’t have caffeine. I can’t have caffeine. I can’t have caffeine.
Hillary turns the question to Americans who have had real crises. Recounts meeting soldiers at Brooks Army Medical Center. What she’s been through is nothing compared to what ordinary Americans go through.
It’s a better answer than the self-absorbed Messiah’s.
9:44pm Eastern Hillary: “I’m absolutely honored, absolutely honored to be here with Barack Obama.”
Shakes his hand. Ick.
Big applause. “Whatever happens, I hope we can say the same about the American people.”
She’s basking. He’s kicking himself.
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Soon she will assume her true form….. watch out those wings don’t poke you.
No Red Bull? Well, considering Hillary will provide the horns, maybe it makes sense.
Barry’s fanbase doesn’t seem be going on much…I think Hill needs a facelift…a new look might dazzle the masses…
I’m still trying to convince myself to watch the Democrats’ debate.
I am pretty sure this won’t be the lovefests we’ve been seeing in the past with them.
How about her turning around and going home in defeat (taking Bill with her)?
What no Red Bull? Well I guess there will be plenty of bull during the debate.
I wonder, since she seemed to fail at doing it in the past 10 elections, if she will congratulate Obama on his wins.
My theory has always been that Mrs. Clinton can’t win the nod, but the Widow Clinton has a fighting chance…am sure Billy Jeff sleeps w/one eye open…
“No hard and fast rules to follow”? Well. Well.
Well. Hillary has lived in Austin and San Antonio now……. She gets around, huh?
Hillary wants to take care of the veterans? Veterans everywhere should be afraid of how HRC would “take care of” them.
It’s called The Buddy The Dog Program…
Look at how Hillary is holding her head backward as she tries to look toward Obama feigning interest in what he is saying.
Does Obama seem to be stumbling a little more tonight than usual or is it just me? I think Hillary is making him nervous with the long stares.
Can you understand anything that Univision guy is saying?
Ah yes. The one that got hit by a car resulting in an untimely death. I remember that.
Stealing Obama’s line (well Gingrich’s)
This is just awful. Marking time until Lost starts.
The Hill is making a preemptive strike on BO’s “united” message.
Obama: Well, I would raise the minimum wage to $100K per year. It’s time we were ALL in the top 5 percent of income in the United States.
I would stop predatory lending by making housing completely free. Everyone gets a 3 BR/2 bath home.
Trade should be as completely unfree as possible.
Senator Clinton cannot one up me in giving out treasure. Treasure that I will have the Bureau of Engraving printing non-stop to cover my grandiose plans.
If you have suggestions for anything that I can provide you in the name of getting elected, please go to your local library and visit my website, where you can make a donation to my campaign with your 23.99% APR predatory credit card.
BO and HRC have already lost my interest for the evening. I’ll just stick to checking on what Michelle is live-blogging about it. I can’t stomach the socialist propoganda tonight and the pandering to illegal aliens, especially with Univision opening up with their Spanish intro tonight.
Hey, if the Dems have magic wands, we won’t need windmills and sunshine.
Open the gates…for the children.
They are in TEXAS they have to pander to the illegals!!
Are they debating? Or just clarifying each other’s talking points?
I couldn’t stomach watching either one of them, and my comment is blah, blah, blah.
I need a barf bag
Why is UT Brownsville partly in Mexico?
I live in Texas and I can tell you what we need to be doing to protect our country, Hill. But you don’t want to listen!
i was watching the debate it was like a bad movie
How can Democrats complain of “special interest” with a straight face?
I’m not watching (working on chores: got to prep for painting a ceiling and walls - you know, a job Americans won’t do for themselves…) the debate.
However, I have a few comments:
1) While subbing today, I was talking to one of the regular teachers. Wherever on the UT campus they are holding the debate, it only seats 3000. There were to be 2900 “invited guests” and only 100 tickets available to the “general public”. I guess keep that in mind in regard to audience reactions.
2) I listen to AM talk radio out of San Antonio (so I get both Rush & Hannity). Heard that Hill has been having vets call other vets to try to get them to vote for her, instead of having some polling/call center company handle those calls.
3) Mom early voted yesterday, and that teacher I was talking to has voted already, too. They both said the Hillary supporters were out in force outside the polling places.
ah oh…new education standards…we can’t master english, so let’s require another…
I don’t know, DougT, but Brownsville sits right on the border at the southern-most tip of Texas. I would wonder what the ownership rules would be for UT to own real property in Mexico - according to my understanding to the Mexican constitution, an American citizen wouldn’t be able to own real property there…
Call me crazy, but I think Clinton has seen the inevitable and is trying to get just enough healing done so she can be at the bottom of the ticket.
Bi-lingual nation. Did either of them answer the question?
Also, why does this question ALWAYS lead people to say we should all learn a second language? That has absolutely NOTHING to do with the problems of being a bilingual nation.
That’s what I would think, Miss Ladybug. Perhaps there is a Matamoros College there and they share a facility.
Or better yet, the city of Brownsville has ordnances that require a 3 yard setback from the property line for fencing. So there’s nine foot strip of the university on the wrong side of the wall.
Well, they are both setting up McCain so he can use talk of a “fence” to sucker more conservatives in (by using it as his contrasting opinion, even though he is one of the poster children for illegal immigration, Mr. Shamnesty)…
but he’ll be sitting, ready and waiting with pen in hand (if he were elected) to sign the same ol’ tired reform bill he helped push with Kennedy.
They are not going to build a fence until Americans get sick and tired and take justice into their own hands (but complacency makes me wonder if that will ever occur).
I tuned in specifically for the wailing and gnashing of a cornered Clinton. We’re getting another kumbaya “discussion” session.
Hey, I’ve been around for 35 yrs and she hasn’t done anything for me!
Hillary won’t make it official that English is our national language.
Both of them want to surrender to hordes of illegal aliens.
At least McCain claims he’ll secure the border first.
If these two clowns “care passionately about the country” — as The Hildebeest just said — let the withdraw from the races and give us a president who won’t turn our Nation into a Marxist/socialist state.
Same old same old…..
I am waiting for Obama to part the Red Sea.
The UT-Brownsville would have part of its campus cut off.
I hate Hillary as much as anyone here, but what she said is true. The original survey put the fence through the university. This is why local input is critical. The locals rebelled and the route for the fence was moved to the south, so the University could stay intact.
It’s not Conservative to plop down a huge federal project on landowners without local input.
I keep expecting one of them to lift a card with the other one’s answer and then they squeal and hug. It’s like a verbose version of The Newlywed Game.
I don’t believe for a minute that she has resigned herself to being second banana, Steve. I am convinced the Clintons see them as the only choice and that everyone will come around to them on the Democrats’ side.
Is he walking on water too?
Is she throwing in the towel? There is no fire in this woman!
They are delusional, Barry. (sigh) They are. (tear rolls down cheek)
Would her turning my stomach, every time she opens her mouth to speak, count?
I watched my 5 minutes worth.I guess they didn’t hear the outcry last summer about illegals.They dont care what the majority wants.McCain better be listening.They left a lot of votes on the table.Both are going to reassess the fence,find a way for amnesty,and push for everyone to learn a second language.I speak hillbilly and a little English,I have my 2.
Hey, Doc. I’m fluent in Hillbilly too with a strong Appalachian twang.
Why is UT Brownsville partly in Mexico?
It’s not. I’ve said this a thousand times already on this blog, but no one listens.
In Texas, the fence will be built as much as a mile north of the border. This is why farmers, townspeople and others, in Texas, are worried about winding up on the south side of the fence.
Hee hee, I speak a little hillbilly too!
There’s a bit of the cult of personality coming through in the audience’s effusive cheering. It’s like the last couple of seasons of Good Times when JJ would step onto the set.
Finally, some fight…over a non-issue. Did you see “the youtube”?
Hillary just stepped on the appendage women aren’t suppose to have when she started in on St Obama re plagiarism.
The Queen of Mean lives!
I shouldn’t have watched. It’s worse than I thought. Why doesn’t anyone ask what role the American people would have in their government in their brave new world?
I’m having visions of Jane Curtin and Dan Aykroyd doing Weekend Update…
Hillary, you ignorant s…
What role? They know what’s best for the American people, doncha know.
Would that it were that interesting, zorro. I can’t hang with this. The presumption that government should be even addressing these “issues” is too much to stomach.
Great point, juliesa (#51). The cure could be worse than the illness in many places.
You are right Doug, time for some Dr. No on DVD.
Michelle, thank you for covering this and most of the debates for us. I don’t know how you do it and still maintain a normal blood pressure!
Is it my imagination or has Campbell been retaining some weight?
Yes. Politicians don’t see themselves as a delegate of the people by whom they are elected to represent their interests but, rather, as a trustee that knows better than their electorate what is best for them.
She is painful to listen to. Ouch.
Geez! I switched over to Fox to get away from this debate and danged if they don’t have Geraldo Rivera on H&C.
That’s it. I just need to turn in for the night. Rivera makes my blood boil with his idiotic commentary. Ugh!
Good night, all. You are better than me to hang with this debate tonight. *sigh*
OT - Hannity & Colmes just brought on Geraldo Rivera to pontificate on the merits of the NY Times’ McCain story.
…click…
Frigging ridiculous.
When will Fox get a clue that its audience is not interested in nitwits like Rivera and Al Sharpton?
Hillary vs. Obama; Obama vs. Hillary? What’s the difference?
- Author unknown
Ha!…BarryF, you beat me to it.
Tal-eee-bon weapons? Wow.
Rats, we’re missing Ninja Warrior.
Did he just way our troops had to steal Taliban weapons because we didn’t supply them with enough?
Thanks, DougT. I think fencing is useful in many areas, but people need to the facts about we’re advocating here, and as much as I hate to admit it, Hillary was right about the University campus. It cost nothing to move the fence a little so that the students move around unimpeded, and this is why local input is critical. This is why Senator Hutchison sponsored that law requiring local input–so that stupid things like this could be prevented.
I have somehow lost my place, can you clarify which is the Marxist and which is the Stalinist?
I think an electric fence would work.
Is this over at 9:30? I thought that info babe just said there’s a lot more to come, yikes!
Ok, the debate is complete, he said Halliburton…
This “debate” proves beyond a doubt that we must get McCain elected.
Granted, he’s far from ideal, but we just might have a chance to survive the next eight years with him in office.
No one is listening to the American citizens on illegal border jumping. The politicians and the NYT are pretending that WE ALL want amnesty. I don’t how we can make them
listen unless we take a week and keep DC and all of our state capitals ( if legislature is
in session) closed down. Even then, Pelosi will just say that it was a few of the cracker
GOP from the south and “don’t pay them no never mind.”
HRC is going to scorch the earth, if she has to to get the nomination. I read somewhere
today that Gore is standing in the wings waiting to shut her down at the convention if
she gets too fractious.
Miss Ladybug, I am going to vote tomorrow. I didn’t check to see if the Dems polling
place is anywhere near ours. They are voting in droves up here.
Not bad questions this time, but still the same hollow answers with an inevitable jab at George Bush. I wish they would start each question “without blaming George Bush…”
And what is this about the Army Captain with half his soldiers in Iraq and soldiers using Taliban weapons? The Hollywood writers strike must be over.
MrScribbler, I’m one of those who left the GOP because of McCain. I’ll support Melissa Hart for congress but not Mr. Shamnesty. Unless he wants to introduce a bill to fund the border fence and then resign the senate, I won’t support him.
Juliesa…..My cousin is losing over a mile and a quarter of his land. He feels it is worth
it if it protects his family, his property and his livestock. He just lost another dog to the
illegals and is insanely p****d about it. I would hate to be an illegal if he catches one on his property in the near future. This is the second German Shepherd he’s lost to them.
I think all the early voting is together, regardless of party. My mom (and that teacher I talked to) voted at the Randall’s grocery store chain…
Boy, that almost sounded like a goodbye on Hillary’s part.
Infuriating.
Can this be any more Balkanizing?
The answer is yes, its a guarantee of permanent conflict and a permanent sub class.
Huh? Did she say something? Make up your mind, is it English or is it multiple somethings else?
How do these people get a single vote after the amnesty debacle that occurred over and over the last two years?
It may be too soon to write Hillary off or use the cult word concerning Obama but its close.
The Kool Aid is nearly ready.
Why can’t you have caffeine?
You all that are not going to vote for McCain might as well say hello to a socialist country. I really don’t understand how you can sit on your hands and turn the country
over to either HRC or BHO. I can honestly say that no matter what I think of McCain, I
will not not vote for him and let them get into office with me sitting there saying, “Well,
I don’t like McCain. My candidate didn’t get the nomination so I’m going to act like the
Dems have been acting for over 7 years. It’s my turn to throw a temper tantrum.”
I’ve had a glass of Merlot. It’s cold outside!
Another democrat
debatelovefest.I still cannot tell the difference between the two on the issues.
I forgot to mention something else I’d heard on WOAI today: some Obama supporter said he’d do well in the debate if Hillary couldn’t pin him down to specifics, that Obama’s supporters are more focused on the “big picture”… Is that supposed to be code for “my guy is all talk and no substance”???
Jumping in late here . . .
Jack and Coke at my house tonight - who’s in?
I’m guessing she gave up caffeine for Lent…
If everybody knew the ugly truth of the consequences of caffeine, sodium, high cholesterol and high blood pressure, market shares for oatmeal and granola would go through the roof.
Rose, I’m sorry. There is no temper tantrum here, just principles. McCain says he’s a conservative, he is not. He’s just another career politician who serves himself. As I said above, it’s his move, he is still in the senate, why doesn’t he show us something conservative like support free speech? Fund the border fence? He can introduce a bill tomorrow if he wanted to.
Nope, no more holding my nose to vote. I’ve done that too many times and am not going to do it ever again.
TXrose, I agree, it’s a horrible problem, and a fence is appropriate in some areas, but I want to provide facts to those who think the fence will be on the actual border, when in reality it will be well inland. I know a rancher who found a woman’s severed head on his property, and he doesn’t want a fence because he’ll lose his water rights. He just wants the government to enforce the laws for a change, which they are NOT doing. All this is just to point out that the issue is more complex than just building something like a property fence.
Ladybug, I think that means all hat and no cattle. Now that they are in TX, these Yankees like to quote us. Kind of like the guy from the mortgage company whose ads
are based on “bless your heart” and he has it all screwed up. None of us are going to
straighten him out. Heard that expres BJ Clinton was supposed to speak in Victoria
today and did not show up. Apparently there were some heavy hitters that showed up
only to be disappointed. Wouldn’t want to be him tonight. They showed Chelsea on the news last night and it appeared that she couldn’t figure out how to wave or which
hand to use in case she remembered.
It is extremely complex. Cuz has 2 artesian wells. He is doing very well but I can
understand the problem. I lived there and my father grew melons there. I do know
what is at stake. I own part of my cousins land in that he sold shares within the family
awhile back so I also have a stake. It’s the little people that will be most hurt by this.
I would suggest land mines but some troll would accuse me of being hardhearted.
Quite the contrary. I am at times too tenderhearted but enough is enough.
TXrose, enough is enough, for sure. There are immigration highways going through there with the help of the Mexican government and corporate recruiters in the US. And the US attorneys are not prosecuting the coyotes as they should. Our place is out in far west Texas, well north of the border. When I was a teen, every now and then, aliens (we called them wetbacks–sorry, but that was the term)would show up looking for work, or food, and we felt sorry for them. We would sometimes give them a few cans of food, or a little task for money. Later, we started having crime, and when my mom would go out to give them something, I would stand behind the door with a loaded shotgun.
This is a big huge problem that’s gone on for decades. It’s going to take a lot of brainwork to solve it, but building a fence down the middle of a university just isn’t smart.
Juliesas, we called them wetbacks and mujados (may not be correct spelling but
it means wetbacks) and as I have said before, the Rio Grande wasn’t that high and I could never figure out why wet-backs and not knees. We lived so close to
the border that we could watch them coming across. We learned to look out for
them because a lot of them thought nothing of breaking into houses and taking
what they wanted. They would make some very very bad messes around the
area. My Mother always said that they were (in some instances) completely amoral. I tend to agree now that I can look back. I guess that when you set out
to live life outside of the law, that you do become amoral.
One puff question after another. I wish they would have the guts to have a debate run by bloggers.
(You gave up caffeine for Lent?! My hat’s off to you, girl!)
TXRose posts disparagingly of conservatives refusing to vote for McCain, My candidate didn’t get the nomination so…I’m going to throw a temper tantrum.
Your cheapshot irritates the pee out of me, TXRose. You utterly fail to grasp — or to honestly relate — the spirit in which most taking the no-vote-for-McCain stance are acting.
Most of us came to Romney or to Huckabee in the end…few of us started there. It has nothing to do with the failure of some favorite candidate of our own. It is a strong stand against the last and ultimate compromise of voting against conservatism in order to vote for the GOP, which is now controlled by cynical pros like Karl Rove and Rick Martinez.
Maybe you make your voting decisions on childish petulance and just find it hard to grasp the thinking of people who make hard votes on hard principle. You’re not qualified — intellectually ~or~ morally — to judge the basis on which other people make their decisions.
Ignatius Reilly said:
I’m guessing that means you’re perfectly willing to turn the Nation over to a Marxist/socialist so your principles remain intact.
Seems to me like killing the patient to stop the disease….
I don’t like McCain. But he looks remarkably good when compared to BHO and HRC.
I’m with TXRose on this one. And I believe your final paragraph is more self-analysis than an attack on her.
I cast my first presidential vote for Reagan after being a Ford supporter. I make my
presidential voting decisions on what is best for the country and the party in that
order. To call me petulant is to stoop to name calling instead of asking exactly why
I have decided to vote for a candidate that I did not support. I cannot in good
conscience not vote and then stand there while a socialist, with the backing of the
Dems in DC ruins this country. McCain may not be the candidate that I want to vote
for, but I believe that being a Republican with a Dem majority, he won’t have as easy
a time of it in DC as a Dem would. True, he hangs out with the other side now, but it
won’t be that way if he is the President. I also remember that Reagan said we must
ultimately pull together Oh, and I don’t take cheap shots. When it comes to speaking my mind, I sometimes have a hard time with being even slightly confrontational. Most pisces do.
I see a candy cane fence with gumdrop trails, windmill powered cars, free abortions and a gay pride parade every sunday. Cabinet positions for our pals Osama, Raul, Kim Jung Il and a 90% tax rate on the rich.
God help us if either of these two get into the white house.
Thank you MrScribbler.
Interesting “debate”.
Obama played the rope a dope well - he has the lead so let Hil flail away.
I think I figured out at least part of Clinton’s issue here. Every time she attacks the failed policies of George Bush, in most cases she is reminding people of the almost identical policies of her husband. Now that she is painting them as failed, no one really wants more of the same, and that’s what they see with Hillary.
Both candidates are clueless as to what their ideas are going to cost. Let’s face it, if either Dem is elected, anyone earning over $80,000 a year will be taxed at 100% so their earnings can be distrubuted to the “middle class”. Indentured servitude for high achievers!
Like slick Willie’s “millionaire tax” that somehow became a tax on anyone in the low six figures (guess that’s an Arkansas millionaire. Not to be confused with the Arkansas “hello”, which apparently is extended with one’s pants around one’s ankles).
Ignatius Reilly~
You misread TXRose: what you quoted she said in sarcasm. Let’s try again, in complete context:
I don’t view holding my nose and voting McCain in the General as voting for him just because he’s GOP. I’m looking at it as a vote AGAINST socialism, which is where Obama/Hillary wants to take us…
“She demagogues about children being left without parents. Babies left without parents.”
Yeah, I wish they would have reminded Clinton of her husband’s policy concerning Elio González… we could have combined the immigration and Cuba issues and saved ourselves 15 minutes of teeth-gnashing.
Mr. Scribbler, I do not criticize you or TXRose for concluding that the greatest good (or least evil) is to vote for McCain. But if you are defending TXRose’s cheap attribution of motive (I’m just ticked off because my candidate didn’t win) then you are as misguided as she is.
But I don’t think you really are defending her arrogant attribution of infantile motives to other conservative voters. Your post seemed to want to take a hard whack at me in defense of TXRose, with whom you are in solidarity on your decision to vote for McCain. But you really didn’t go straight at my criticism of TXRose’s post, which was not her voting decision. She might not respect my decision, but I respect her. I just don’t respect her cheap shot at those who disagree.
Thank you Miss Ladybug but there was another not in that sentence. I will vote for
McCain. I will hold my nose if I have to, but I will not play games with my vote for the
president because 4 or 8 years of Hillary or Obama ( and that husband of hers and that
wife of his) turns my stomach. I have always told my friends that do not vote, that they
cannot gripe. Same thing goes for me. Therefore, I have to vote GOP.
Miss Ladybug, I looked very carefully at TXRose’s post and, again, at your quoting of it. I did not misread it.
She expressed — as her own thought process — the idea of voting against McCain because of disappointment at the defeat of one’s own favored candidate. And she explained that she rejected that sort of thinking.
But the clear rhetorical purpose was to ascribe exactly that defective motive that she has rejected for herself as the motive for people who have, in fact, decided to vote against McCain.
TXRose, I think that what you said was unfortunate, and I took a hard shot it. I felt quite offended by it, as I explained.
But, ultimately, I do recognize that you are a sincere conservative, and I hate to find myself so much at odds with people whom I should be marching beside.
Maybe I was a little more hostile than I should have been in taking exception to your remark. Good luck.
Apparently I have inadvertently touched a sore spot here. Trust me, I respect your decision if it is made honestly and with a good deal of thought. I did not mean to make
you feel badly about your decision. I am only telling you what I have heard from an
awful lot of Republicans. “If the person that I wanted to get in doesn’t make it, and if
McCain does, I will not vote for McCain because he is not as conservative as I want him to
be or whatever.” As I have said before, I used to know Juan Hernandez and I don’t trust
him as far as I can throw him and at 5′, 100#s, that wouldn’t be far. But I do think that we
will fare much better with McCain in the White House than the alternative, I am sorry if
you feel less than good at this point. Maybe a warm bath and glass of warm milk and it
will all look better tomorrow.
Ignatius Reilly~
Then I misinterpreted the point you were trying to make. Sorry about that…
But, I have heard (well, “seen” on various threads around the internet) people make that very argument: their candidate of choice didn’t make it, and they’ll be damned if they vote for McCain, even if it means we get HRC or BO as president.
Thank you Ignatius and I love your name, by the way. I truly did not mean to offend
you. I sometimes forget that being the oldest child in the family has left me with an
unfortunate tendency to lecture. We are all conservatives and should be working in
concert.
And, on that note, I am going to take my own advice. A warm bath (never could
stand warm milk) and I will call it a night.
Exactly my point, Miss Ladybug, and a goodnight to you. See you on another
thread. I’ll let you know what I find at the polls tomorrow.
Because Brownsville is on the Southern tip of Reconquistaville, of South Texas, right on the border - and they felt it
verymuyimportantimortante to OUTREACH.ooops!!!
That would be “importante”. “muy importante”….pardone moi. er, escuse’ moi - oops, por favor, senor y senoras
Ombre Rose~
You may not have read all the comments, so I’ll fill you in if that is the case. The campus isn’t partly in Mexico; the way DHS has decided to build the fence (in a ways from the actual border) would place part of the campus south of the border fence…
How can Hillary comment that SHE has been through ROUGH BATTLES in her life? All of them center around Bill and his feloneous and adulterous behavior, as well as some feloneous behavior of her own - all problems they brought on themselves, and those that he brought on her FOR WHICH SHE DECIDED TO STICK WITH HIM FOR THE PURPOSES OF HER OWN PERSONAL GAIN.
And she kept a straight face and moved on QUICKLY, before her audience REMEMBERED what all her personal battles were REALLY all about!
Thanks - yeah, I do stick my foot in it from time to time. And I did assume without reading all the comments - based on some talk in our area - lots of kids around here go there - but I haven’t been to that campus myself in about 20 years, and it has grown an awful lot since then.
I knew a few years ago they had a lot of experimental farming going on in Mexico and in South America, too, and I just jumped to conclusions.
Sorry.
But the Southern tip of Texas is heavily smothered in Reconquistas, and thus is the BLUE section of the State on the Elections map, save for Austin, pretty much, these days - and a thin, broken line along our border, and a splash around the Houston area.
BTW, my mom watched these debates tonight, and concludes she will vote for [Obama] - she has voted Conservative, all her life, as far as I know, as far as I had ever been told by her, before.
She really hates McCain, though.
Frankly, I would expect her to be more likely to do that, than for her to try to remember the name of a good Conservative and bother to write it in.
This little idea keeps bubbling up, that Obama will be another Carter, totally clueless once he gets the job and Dems and Repubs alike will limit his stupidity and throw him out after one term.
After all, we had to endure Carter to get Reagan. Could it happen again?
McCain has already said RECENTLY, when backed into a corner, that if it is revived, and they put it on his desk, HE WILL SIGN IT - AS IS.
He didn’t get NUTHIN’! He just got a NEW DICTIONARY.
Haven’t you heard him SAY that HIS BILL DID NOT GIVE “AMNESTY”??? ~~~After all, there is a “FINE” involved!~~~
Easy - all three are BOTH.
Remember, the laws that the Senators Hillary and Obama are voting for that we despise them for are all written by McCain.
You are confusing me no end, little fox.
There are at least 3 may be 4 different “Rose” persons on Michelle’s forums.
SO LOL!
Well, I can easily see that I am not the one you are talking to.
I ain’t gonna vote for McCain, either.
I still don’t see any evidence that he is “Right” of the Dim candidates, one iota!
I believe he is fully capable of doing twice as much damage as all of them put together.
After all, they don’t get that much done, now, unless he pulls out his legislation and his Gang of 14 to give them the necessary nudges.
Better idea than it is to think that once McCain gets to his most independent position in his life, that he would suddenly do a lifetime career reversal and start listening to Conservatives and do what is RIGHT instead of what is STALINIST on the old agenda adopted by the DIM PLATFORM committee.
He chose his direction in his last Senate Election in Arizona when he spit in the eyes of the Arizona GOP, did as he wished and was handily voted in by DIM CROSSOVERS who preferred him to the Dim candidate running against him.
If I’m not mistaken, that Dim candidate was a Coors and that would make him undoubtedly a relative of Cindy’s. ???
AFAIK, Obama ripped off the phrase “just words”, everything else was a famous quote, e.g. I have a dream, We hold these truths to be self-evident, We have nothing to fear but fear itself.
I’m in southWest Texas - those of you that intend to vote for McCain - say hello to a Socialist nation.
Compare McCain Feingold Thompson to, say, The Stamp Act.
I have trouble differentiating McCain from Santa Anna after some of the funerals for several diffferent folks from an assortment of local families here - of the ones NOT INVOLVED in illegal activities with local coyotes.
and in the whole thread, references to problems in some areas due to teh the fence being plotted well away from the literal physical border — well, there are many kinds of accomodations to fit some solitary or rare private problems - but most would be solved if America h ad the balls to call the border what it is, instead of conceding a mile or more deep to Mexico - all things considered. As far as I am concerned, given the entire history, if the fence deviates from the actual border - let the cost be to the MEXICO side, not the American side - considering all those gun battles on OUR SIDE of the border, and tunnels, and etc. - broken fences, stolen cattle, and other, etc, et al…
After all, if they took care of their own side of it as well as they do their own SOUTHERN border, considering the billions of American tax payer dollars that American politicians have gifted them without strings or accountability for….
No vote for McCain.
Anyone see Ann Coulter’s latest column?
On February 22nd, 2008 at 12:22 am,
Speaking of PLAGERISM —
Remember that health care package Hillary tried to shove down our throats in ‘93 - anyone remember Rush giving the proof AT THE TIME THAT IT WAS MASS PUBLISHED AT GOVT EXPENSE, just on SPECULATION, that she lifted it lock stock and barrel from a UNIVERSITY project?
Fine, but keep your trap shut when this country becomes the newest socialist utopia, all because you and a lot of other clueless people think the only alternative to not getting everything you want in a candidate is to get everything you