You are so funny. In making your assertion that it took till 182 for the personal shots to start flying you apparently you missed the posts where Rusty was called “racist” and “ignorant” “condescending” “patronizing” (Post 146) and the not so thinly swipes at Rusty’s mother (Post 153) an “race pimp” (Post 160), never mind all the stupid “Troll” comments.

You know Rusty, maybe we really shouldn’t feed the sheep.

I’m not surprised that #182 took those parting, personal shots at you.

Like the six-year-old who has lost an argument saying, “Yeah? Yeah? Well, well,…your Mom and Dad smell!”

Pray for our country, emjem24, when people like those two posters, and others of their ilk – that we all know and love; have a vote that counts just as much as that of the rest of us.

Pray that there are not enough of them to put the final nails in the coffin of our great nation, society, and culture.

Wow.

Those two posts have proven only two things, and this will be my last word on this subject because one can only bang one’s head against a wall for so long.

1) You have no idea what Rusty and I were talking about. No conception whatsoever.

2) You are proof that people CAN apparently succeed without the benefit of a proper education. Congratulations.

You and I do not think alike. You and Rusty have let poverty define you. Now you identify with those poor blacks in Anacostia. Good for you. As to your two points:

1)Blacks are poor, there will always be poverty, therefore blacks will always be poor. Check.

2)What exactly is a “proper education?” Are you taking another shot at me? Here I thought the school of hard knocks, college, and graduate school and overall life experience had provided me with a “proper education.” Or perhaps I don’t embrace the liberal, multicultural, PC attitude that’s pervaded your psyche.

No, I think I get you loud and clear. You and Rusty have refused to back up your arguments. You and he have put your assertions out there… NOW PROVE THEM.

You want to experience REAL POVERTY.. not the urban kind but the overall kind where not only does one have trouble finding necessities (food, water shelter), there are no jobs, and no real social/medical infrastructrue to sustain them, take a long, hard look at Rwanda or Congo or some other choice African country. The people of Anacostia have nothing on these people.

Those two posts have proven only two things, and this will be my last word on this subject because one can only bang one’s head against a wall for so long.

1) You have no idea what Rusty and I were talking about. No conception whatsoever.

2) You are proof that people CAN apparently succeed without the benefit of a proper education. Congratulations.

Emjem24, I am giving up. I guess they don’t understand that there are plenty of people in this country who do whatever it takes to stay off the dole. I think the lack of shame is a problem but that’s just my opinion as one who has paid into the system for nearly 30 years.

I think Rusty and Chap like to whip out their violins at the same time their pockets get picked. Feeling sorry for people doesn’t get them out of poverty or in a better position it gets them “help,” “health care,” and “housing” …. usually at thet taxpayers’ expense. In Rusty’s and Chap’s minds, being poor means automatic dependence. There’s me being romantic again, darn it!

My mother felt shame growing up because she didn’t get healthcare and wore hand-me-downs her entire life. Did she resent this? Sure. Did she bitch and whine about it like Rusty does… no. I’m sorry I’m being anecdotal and my mother’s or best friends experiences don’t count in Rusty’s mind.

I’m sure if shame entered the picture there’d be a whole lot more people doing something about their poverty. However, if you believe Rusty they’re not free to make their own choices in Anacostia… even if they have “chosen” to pick up the meth, or the crack pipe, or the alcohol bottle, or the self-fulfilling pity pool, victimization racket instead of doing something about it. No, that’s me just being a responsible person who believes in the boot strap theory. No, I think Rusty and Chap’s guilt is working overtime.

I guess the idea of changing careers is something that they don’t get. The liberal mindset is a terrible thing. I don’t feel guilty about the way I feel, I’ve worked plenty of menial jobs myself but that was my choice and I knew it was helping me get to where I was going so it was okay. I guess hard work does hurt some.

Rusty and Chap are playing the expectations, do for me instead of myself game. No, when one feels like a loser in life they feel entitled to things that they’ve never worked for. Their sad socio-economic sob story automatically entitles them to my hard-earned money. This attitude is wearing thin with the hard-working middle class whose tax dollars not only support the genuinely desperate but the deadbeats among us.

I need a shower. I stink of troll.

Speaking in preachy generalizations really doesn’t do it for me. If you (especially Rusty) want to tell me how how hard it is to make it out of poverty, please back it up. Give me/us statistics. The onus is on you…

Anecdotal experience is like oral history… it passes through the generations. Just as many black people don’t have a lot of their history written down on a piece of paper, my family passed stories of hardship and struggle from one generation to the next. I learned a lot about both my family and myself… how to take care of myself, be independent (this is one great thing about feminism), and how not be a victim.

You both are making excuses for poor people because it’s easier than actually examining the issue as to the causal/societal/socio-economic factors involved in poverty. In your estimation, poverty exists let’s throw money at it like univeral preschool or free healthcare, free housing, free schooling. How is this all to be afforded? Ah, yes, steal from my paycheck to give to those stuck in the ghetto. I’ve already seen this in Europe and that’s why their taxes are so high. Yes, let’s rob from someone’s success to prop up the less successful. Did I miss anything?

My black high school friend is just one example of what can happen when you think for yourself. She is a statistic in one respect… not a generality that flies from both your comments. Instead of valuing that success, you both deride it as a blip or just one person making it out of the ghetto. I find this attitude a bit startling, hypocritical, and racist because in your estimation people are so poor there’s nothing that can be done for those low wage earners so for that reason society needs to prop them up with our hard-earned tax dollars. I resent that… I’m sorry you can’t see the taxpayer burden on a “macro” level.

As to education and training… do you deny that there is opportunity for both in our society? Our country bends over backwards to help the poor… in some respects people need only that short period of aid to help them land that first job or that first scholarship. For others a “handout” is symbolic for free ride.

I have very little sympathy for people like you Rusty, and you, Chap, who make excuses. I heard it a lot growing up. Excuses tend to wear thin after a while and eventually run out. The government and the American taxpayer cannot take care of everyone… would you agree? Where is your sympathy for the American taxpayer in all this whose hard-earned money may be going to programs like welfare that are easy to exploit?

Another thing I really don’t appreciate from you both is that you hide behind others (many you don’t even know) to make gross generalizations about something that you might or might not have proof about. Oh, that’s right you’ve seen the poverty in Anacostia, Rusty, yet that’s all you can give me. You tell me that the poor cannot move around or avail themselves of transportation… okay. How so? How are they getting their groceries, going to school, getting to their “low wage jobs?” Many cities like NYC are easily navigable and the public transportation is affordable.

Another thing you both seem to think you know a lot about is
how “persecuted” or “superior” I am. I expect it from Rusty because he never backs up anything he says and thinks he can get away with it.. but you Chap? You want to be part of the Troll Liberation Front? Why degrade my life experience because people like me and Terrig don’t want to be taken for chumps just so somebody can’t get off their butt and support themselves? How much taxes are WE all supposed to pay to make both you and the poor happy? Is it me that’s got the chip on my shoulder (oh, yes, I’m feeling persecuted…thanks for that projection… are you a psychologist too Rusty)? Yes, some poor folks cannot but many can.

Since we’re discussing poverty in economic terms have you actually been outside of the country for any period of life? Have you ever seen how the poor actually live in other countries? The way you describe poverty is something on the same scale as the shanty towns outside of Caracas or any major South American city. That is REAL poverty on a MACRO level since it tends to affect South American countries on a more epic scale than the US (on a population level). I’m not seeing shanty towns in D.C. and I’ve been there many times (since I live in VA) and not just the tourist hotspots.

Let’s be real here for just a sec, okay? How much contact do you Rusty and you Chap have with poor people on a daily basis? How frequently do you make your way over to Anacostia, Rusty? Do you volunteer at a homeless shelter, hang around the homeless, donate your time in any way to help? Or do you just live in your “low rent abode” pontificating on how bad the poor have it and how much you feel their pain?

The main message I’m getting from both of you is how much you feel sorry for the poor to such an extent that you’d rather keep them down than succeed because they will only ever be able to earn low income wages. Do you know how insulting that sounds? That’s the message I’ve gotten from Dems the past, oh 40 years. Let’s throw money at the problem and make their lives a little more bearable and comfortable. The only problem with this is that at some point that approach builds up resentment, anger, and “disenfranchisement” (Rusty’s favorite word).

I’m seeing a lot more pontificating here, fellas, than concrete solutions to the problem. Oh, that’s right there will always be poor people who can’t take the subway, get a job, take care of themselves. Have I got it about right? Oh, and thanks for telling MILLIONS of people who have made it out of poverty that they were “lucky” and “blips.” That it had nothing to do with hard work, self-reliance, and the “audacity of hope” as Obama would put it.

Blacks are still more likely to live in extreme poverty. And denial of that is insane.

Rusty decided early he didn’t want do a “term paper,” but even term papers like ideas should be supported by actual facts not assumptions.

What side of the mouth do you think you’re talking from? What facts have you used? You having a middle class black friend andf growing up in poverty…yeah, they’re facts. But you clearly don’t understand statistics. You sample size is one. Which is to say, not an example. Please think and argue on a macro level.

Like this nonsense:

Where do I start? Oh, yes the deck is stacked against “poor, black people” because their poverty impedes their movement. Even though they live in one of the largest metropolitan hubs in the country, if not the world.

The deck is stacked against the poor black people in Anacostia (Fact: Anacostia is one of the blackest communities in the nation and also features an extreme amount of poverty). How is it not? You act like they can just move to PG County and that will fix everything. Do you understand how property values work? If everyone leaves (and they can not afford to do so), property values go down and more impoverished people take their place. Why is that so hard to grasp?

All the subways in the world (although SE DC is underrepresented by our subway lines) won’t change that.

Congratulations on working your way through poverty. I’m sorry it left you with a persecution AND a superiority complex.

You jump around quite a bit, but kudos on the paragraphs!

I will try to address your general arguments:

First, there is world of difference between saying that “no one in this country can do well if they want to” which is just stupid, and saying that it is a hell of a lot easier to succeed for some than others. That is fact. If you do not accept this premise then fine, this argument is officially pointless and you are officially wrong.

I never said that we all don’t have our own challenges to overcome in life. I am glad to see you overcame your own, as did I. But why is it so hard to admit that folks living and growing up in the inner city have maybe a few more, and more serious, obstacles? N.B. Poverty does in fact impede movement). If the inner city truly is such a halcyon land of opportunity I strongly suggest you move there so your kids can take advantage of all that it offers.

This is also not to absolve anyone from personal responsibility for their own success or failures.

Let’s see….what else?

Second, again, you seem to fall back on the position that all one has to do to get themselves out of poverty is to grow a pair, get some training, some education, whatever it takes to get a better job. And if you look at it on an individual basis, you are maybe right.

But on a macro level, your argument is simply wrong. Take your argument and apply it to our society as a whole. If everyone did what you suggest, the better-paying jobs would be quickly filled and leave nothing but lower-skilled jobs, which society needs to function but has no incentive to pay well for. All we’ve accomplished is to make them overqualified. That is what Rusty meant by his “janitors with PhD” comment. And that is why there will always be poverty on a societal level.

As an aside, I am glad that you have a middle class black friend. That’s super for you. But I hardly think it is controversial to say that if you are black, you are more likely to be poor. You can argue the causes of this fact and the consequences of this fact. Doesn’t change the fact.

If you get knocked down on hard times, yes, get that menial job while you also learn a new trade/skill, or go back to school

I guess the idea of changing careers is something that they don’t get. The liberal mindset is a terrible thing. I don’t feel guilty about the way I feel, I’ve worked plenty of menial jobs myself but that was my choice and I knew it was helping me get to where I was going so it was okay. I guess hard work does hurt some.
Have a great evening.