Another FISA failure
What a way to mark the 15th anniversary of the WTC bombing yesterday, huh? Via CQ Politics:
House Republicans tried again Tuesday to force a floor vote on Senate-passed legislation to overhaul the nation’s electronic surveillance law.
But Democrats stood fast, insisting that negotiations continue between the House and Senate on a compromise version of the legislation.
By 212-198, the House quashed the Republican effort on a procedural vote.
House and Senate Democrats are negotiating over the legislation, but Republicans and the Bush administration are boycotting those talks. Republicans say the House should simply clear the Senate version of the measure instead. The Senate passed that bill Feb. 12 by 68-29.
“Congress needs to act immediately,” said Rep. Pete Sessions , R-Texas. He said House Republicans will try every day to bring up the Senate-passed version, which also has the backing of 21 Blue Dog Democrats.
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Categories: FISA
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The dems are useing all the stalling tactics they can untill after the election. the goal is to put up the walls Clinton established during the investigations into his administration. They also want to give aid to the Lawyer lobby that is tired of chaseing ambulances. By allowing them to file massive class action law suits that will keep all corporations/individuals and anyone who stands up to political correctness.
Pelosi, Ried, Kennedy, ect all should be not only ashamed of themselves but tried as coconspirotors in the war on terorism.
The political party of the defeatists makes this DAV’s blood boil. Now they are having “secret” meetings and are afraid that more people will know about it.
Idiots.
CarpiJugulum…exactly so.
The pro terrorist party….aka Democrats, will continue to do everything they can to block the Senate passed version.
They feel that they’re actually winning something against Bush. All it really does is show just how far they will go for their BDS.
I wonder how much money Al Queada has given to Democrat races
When will we begin hearing of more GOP lawmakers with actual guts to call these democrat cowards what they are: cowards!
Grr!
This has got to be one of the worst do-nothing sessions of Congress ever. And I see no signs of progress in the near future. How much longer before I start asking MM.com readers to throw in their own hats?
Spot on.
It never ceases to amaze me when the Democrats repeatedly use the cliche “Bush’s failed policies”.
History is proving the opposite. And, history is showing who really has the failed policies. And the “culture of corruption”. And the “cut and run” party.
Let’s face it – the Democrat’s have a vested interest in seeing America fail in any number of endeavors.
Just another school yard game,We’ll show Bush.After the next attack they can still blame him.
Oh! But, don’t question their patriotism, Tiger. You know they love their country.
/sarcacm off
What prevents the Government from securing a warrant and collecting the needed intelligence? Just follow the law. Who has a problem with following the law?
Amen. If the stalling tactics of the Democrats result in a terrorist attack taking place on American soil, they should all be given one-way tickets to Guantanamo. I will hold them each personally accountable for any deaths of Americans due to terror attacks on American soil or at American interests anywhere in the world.
This is ridiculous. The safety of every American is at stake while these politicians play chicken on FISA.
#10 zyzzyg… your question is rhetorical correct?
The current FISA law is outdated and was passed during the “pony express” days of electronics and telephone communications.
I for one don’t mind relinquishing some of my so-called liberties if it will prevent terrorist attacks – different time different enemy.
If you are truly worried about someone eavesdropping on your communications, you might start worrying about what your ISP, Google and Yahoo are collecting from you each time you use their services. Or how about when you purchase something on-line?
Hey Rusty.
Dems doing the blocking Repubs will not do?
I guess the House is trying to find Jose Canseco so they can waste time like they did with the Clemmons (however he spells his name) fiasco. Hope Nancy’s daughter had a great wedding at the expense of the expiration at midnight of the electronic surveillance law. One has to wonder if they raised their glass in a toast when it did expire.
If we get hit by another mass casualty attack set into motion by this hole in our ability to gather intelligence and connect the dots I want to see Queen Pelosi and every Democrat blocking this charged with treason and sedition, tired, and then shot on the steps of the Capital Building as a lesson to the rest of the lying crapweasels in the US Government that are more concerned with poking President Bush in the eye instead of protecting this country.
I know it will never happen because no one in Bush’s Justice Department has the stones to enforce the rule of law more or less protect this country abiding by the US Constitution:
Boomer,
You think that the House believes the same thing Rusty believes – the Constitution is WRONG?
How far will these idiots go to betray us? Sadly, we need to point the finger at the Repubs lack of willingness to take this to the public. The Repubs should break in with a special announcement during Idol (when most of the country is watching TV) and let them know what our government is up to. TV is a great tool and the Repubs just ignore it.
The Thunder Run has linked to this post in the – Web Reconnaissance for 02/27/2008 A short recon of what’s out there that might draw your attention, updated throughout the day…so check back often.
I would write one of my anonymous poison pen letters to my congressman on this, but I don’t have an Okidta printer, and Big Brother Bush now insists on hidden tracking dots in your laser printed documents so they can get you.
Big Brother, Big Brother. He will protect us.
We in DC have time to give ourselves a raise every year without anyone knowing we are doing it, work two months a year, fatten our wallets with the pork we pass, hold hearings on every sport in the country, hold hearings on every Republican who they think has a hint of scandal, and spend 23 hours of the day trying to crater our country. We DO NOT have time to pass FISA. And America, we don’t want to! The trial lawyers suing the phone companies would be out of business.
L
Makes sense there is so much animosity and anger in America now days…1 side the conservatives, want to protect and keep America as it was founded, the other side, the democraps want to destroy the country and make it the western version of socialist europe…while the independents sitting on their thumbs in the middle of the road have no idea what’s going on. As they sit in the middle of the road and here comes that huge vehicle ‘Fascism’ to run ‘em down.They have no idea the libs are the true enemy…fascists, controlling every act, every word and every thought.
# 12 iamsaved
FISA has been updated over the years and the only element that the House has a problem with this time around is that the Bill contains immunity from prosecution for the Telecoms (Phone, Internet, etc.) for past actions.
My question is not entirely rhetorical, though the answer is obvious. If there is some action that requires electronic surveillance then a warrant should be sought. Having a warrant protects the Telecoms providing the information. That is the current structure of FISA and all warrants. We have adequate laws and we should use them.
Immunity for past actions on the part of the Telecoms can, and should, be dealt with separately. There were exigent circumstances that came in to play early on and that can be dealt with.
Yes, it sounds flippant, but in all sincerity I wonder whether there’s a grain of truth there; are there any “Trojan Horse’ Islamic radical front contributors to the Dems? A revelation would be dynamite come Nov.
James Greenidge
Queens NY
(A Thompson guy voting for MacCain not be cause he has to but cares about my wallet more.)
zyzzyg #21…Read your own words. The house wants to go after “past actions”. I would rather give the benefit of the doubt to the Telecoms doing this because they were asked to by the White House and thought it was the right thing to do, our country needed their help. Or would you rather give the benefit to the trial lawyers to do the right thing when you open up lawsuit mania for again, past actions. The Telecoms have already stopped helping and this will make it worse.
And your mention of FISA updates is a joke, right. The warrant on a phone conversation can’t happen fast enough. By the time they get that warrant for a specific phone # or communication, they get a new phone(it’s called technology and the terrorists have it). And that is just one example.
Why are you worried about our government listening to a foreigner’s phone conversation. I still have not seen one example of how this could affect an American citizen.
If the TelComs or others broke the law, let them pay. There’s too much liberty forfeited without a fight as it is. The Congress and Executive are selecting which laws to abide by and which to ignore without regard to the Constitution. You guys that say you’re happy to give up some liberties for security are taking the easy way by saying “take care of me, please, at any cost” rather than taking responsibility for yourself. You’re pitiful.
I have said this before but I will say it again.
One of the very few powers a federal government has is the power to protect this nation from its enemies. This does not give the local cops without a warrant the right to listen to liberals dealing dope over their cell phones. This gives the federal government the right to do what it must to protect our nation from attack by people who openly state that we are the great satan and they want nothing more than our complete and total destruction. I do not know about you but if somebody tells me they want to kill me, my only concern is getting to them before they have a chance to get to me.
I am an American living in the Philippines. Even though there are relatively few problems where I live, the Southern part of the country has many factions vying for control. Some of these are Muslims trained in the Middle East. My Mother held security clearance and I am sure, even unwittingly, I know some things I am not supposed to know. I am quite certain that ALL of my communications are monitored and quite frankly … I am glad! What if there are others like me who are not quite so patriotic or concerned with National Security? (Perhaps someone from the NYT even?) If they were down here telling people how to get to us and how their attacks could be more effective, wouldn’t you want preventative measures to be in place to prevent that information from being used? I do not know about everybody here, but I sure would.
Immunity prevents the telecoms from being sued by our enemies (Via the ACLU, CAIR or any other organization that may push their agendas for whatever reasons) and giving our enemies further insight into our tactics and a better means of being successful in attacking us. Again, one of the very few real powers that the feds have is the ability to protect the nation.
Where am I giving up any of my liberties? I do not participate in illegal activities. I do not care who listens to my communications because I do not discuss illegal actions. As anybody here knows who has read my writing, I despise what our government has become and their abuse and illegal usurpation of power from We the People and the States. I do not hide it, nor is it illegal. Still, I wish they would do the job they are responsible for though I doubt protecting our borders will be a real issue to them anytime soon.
I am much more fed up with government illegally redistributing my money to others in the name of social welfare. I am concerned with govt illegally telling me what I can and cannot do within my own home and my own business even when those actions are perfectly legal and within the confines of the law. I am more concerned with govt telling me how I can and cannot raise my children or how I can educate them. I am much more concerned with blatantly illegal actions being blatantly disregarded when committed by members of the government. When those issues are resolved, talk to me again about “relinquishing” my rights and freedom so the Nation can be protected.
Sorry about being so long-winded again but I am a writer and a Hillbilly and this is something I am passionate about.
It doesn’t bother you that your house can be searched, your private papers read and pictures of your family seen by prying eyes without court authority? You are not breaking the law, therefore you are immune from such activity? The Patriot Act doesn’t distinguish you from the lawbreaker. How can it be determined that you are not participating in illegal activities until AFTER the search. As a writer, you should more interested in protecting your rights. “..then they came for me.” Yes, pitiful.
#23 nosheep
Agreed. That is why I said there were exigent circumstances and this can be dealt with separately.
No. This can be dealt with later, through separate legislation.
Not true. When a warrant is secured the Telecoms are protected.
Nope. It has been revised and updated to meet the changing needs and requirements since it’s initial inception.
Warrants can be back dated when the circunstances are exigent. Warrants are not only for fixed apparatus like phones and computers, but for individuals. So, any mode of communication that an individual uses is subject to that warrant. These were just a few of the updates and revisions to FISA.
(A brief aside – If we can identify an individual terrorist as Pres Bush has said, “Known terrorists are calling” why aren’t we whacking these individuals?)
I am not and have never said that.
If updating FISA is critical to the Nation’s security then do not allow one element (Telecom Protection) that has nothing to do with the actual workings of FISA to hold it up.
Well, wait and see what happens if Clinton is elected. Would you trust her with this power? Getting warrants is also a check against an abuse of power.
Finally, recall that the expiration of the Protect America Act is because it was recognized that it was done in haste because of exigent circumstances. It was purposefully designed with time limits to allow review of every element contained within it.
What’s the problem. Get warrants. Follow the law.
It bothers me that the government can and did take 110 acres of my land in Northern Nevada because we lived off the grid. My crime was taking my father home after he had a heart attack. It bothers me that they can tell me what I can and cannot allow in the confines of my own home and my own business when I OWN those establishments and my actions are well within the law. It bothers me that abuse of the law runs rampant among our politicians and they not only remain in power but continue to get reelected. Hell yes the corruption bothers me but we are talking about national security and not somebody’s pathetic little nickel and diming.
If the government wants to come and search my home in the Philippines … more power to them. There is enough exint in the expatriate community here to make it easy. Remember though, that here in the Philippines, I also have the legal right to shoot anyone within fifty meters of my home if they are a viable threat to my safety or that of my family. And just in case you did not know … the government here will not go out of their way to protect the American Int community.
As for national security, if calls are being routed through the USA or computerized communications are being routed through the USA or based on US servers, why the hell should we not listen to them? Do you have any idea how many people died to obtain the codes for the Japanese communications or to get the Enigma machine off the German U-Boat? There are people attempting to destroy our nation and again … one of the very few powers our federal government has is to protect this nation.
So we fight excessive government control by giving them more control?
As for pathetic … what would be pathetic (AND IS) is watching this country be destroyed from within by a bunch of groups using our own laws and weaknesses against us as a bunch of coddled fat-cat-bureaucrats sit back and collect lobbyist dollars thinking they will somehow be immune once the defecation is deftly redistributed by the rotary oscillator … once the “it” hits the fan so to speak!