California court threatens homeschoolers Update: Debate about the ruling’s implications
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The war on homeschooling is a longstanding one. Parents who take their children’s education into their own hands threaten the creaking, bloated public school monopoly here at home and abroad. The HS community is buzzing about the latest salvo in the war–a troubling ruling in California that imposes credentialing requirements on parents:
Parents who lack teaching credentials cannot educate their children at home, according to a state appellate court ruling that is sending waves of fear through California’s home schooling families.
Advocates for the families vowed to appeal the decision to the state Supreme Court. Enforcement until then appears unlikely, but if the ruling stands, home-schooling supporters say California will have the most regressive law in the nation.
“This decision is a direct hit against every home schooler in California,” said Brad Dacus, president of the Pacific Justice Institute, which represents the Sunland Christian School, which specializes in religious home schooling. “If the state Supreme Court does not reverse this . . . there will be nothing to prevent home-school witch hunts from being implemented in every corner of the state of California.”
The institute estimates there are as many as 166,000 California students who are home schooled. State Department of Education officials say there is no way to know the true number.
Unlike at least 30 other states, home schooling is not specifically addressed in California law. Under the state education code, students must be enrolled in a public or private school, or can be taught at home by a credentialed tutor.
The California Department of Education currently allows home schooling as long as parents file paperwork with the state establishing themselves as small private schools, hire credentialed tutors or enroll their children in independent study programs run by charter or private schools or public school districts while still teaching at home.
California does little to enforce those provisions and insists it is the local school districts’ responsibility. In addition, state education officials say some parents home school their children without the knowledge of any entity.
Home schoolers and government officials have largely accepted this murky arrangement.
“This works so well, I don’t see any reason to change it,” said J. Michael Smith, president of the Virginia-based Home School Legal Defense Assn.
From the court opinion (the full PDF is here):
“Parents do not have a constitutional right to home school their children,” wrote Justice H. Walter Croskey in a Feb. 28 opinion signed by the two other members of the district court. “Parents who fail to [comply with school enrollment laws] may be subject to a criminal complaint against them, found guilty of an infraction, and subject to imposition of fines or an order to complete a parent education and counseling program.”
Homeschooling parents of more than 166,000 children in California could face criminal charges.
Government monopolies die hard.
***
The Pacific Justice Institute is defending the homeschoolers. More here.
Details about the family:
The appellate court ruling stems from a case involving Lynwood parents Phillip and Mary Long, who were repeatedly referred to the Los Angeles County Department of Children and Family Services over various allegations, including claims of physical abuse, involving some of their eight children.
All of the children are currently or had been enrolled in Sunland Christian School, where they would occasionally take tests, but were educated in their home by their mother, Phillip Long said.
A lawyer appointed to represent two of the Long’s young children requested that the court require them to physically attend a public or private school where adults could monitor their well-being. A trial court disagreed, but the children’s lawyer appealed to the 2nd District Court of Appeal, which has jurisdiction over Los Angeles, Ventura, Santa Barbara and San Luis Obispo counties.
The appellate panel ruled that Sunland officials’ occasional monitoring of the Longs’ home schooling — with the children taking some tests at the school — is insufficient to qualify as being enrolled in a private school. Since Mary Long does not have a teaching credential, the family is violating state laws, the ruling said.
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Homeschoolers point out that the ruling could have serious implications for families considering withdrawing from California public schools over SB777, which critics say is a mandate for left-wing sexual indoctrination.
Stay tuned.
***
Update: Gabriel Malor says homeschoolers and bloggers like me are overreacting to the ruling.
The Home School Legal Defense Association, whose legal counsels have been battling the anti-homeschooling forces for decades, weighs in and sees plenty of cause for alarm:
On February 28, 2008, the California Court of Appeals issued a ruling in a juvenile court proceeding that declared that almost all forms of homeschooling in California are in violation of state law. (Private tutoring by certified teachers remains an option.) Moreover, the court ruled that parents possess no constitutional right to homeschool their children.
This family was not a member of Home School Legal Defense Association. They were represented by court-appointed counsel throughout the proceeding. Since it was by law a confidential proceeding, to the best of our knowledge neither HSLDA nor any other legal advocacy organization had any knowledge that the right of all homeschoolers in California was depending upon the outcome of this family’s case.
There are two appellate options at this time.
First, we have been told that the family is appealing this decision to the California Supreme Court with their California counsel.
HSLDA will file an amicus brief on behalf of our 13,500 member families in California. We will argue that a proper interpretation of California statutes makes it clear that parents may legally teach their own children under the private-school exemption. However, if the court disagrees with our statutory argument, we will argue that the California statutes as interpreted by the Court of Appeal violate the constitutional rights of parents to direct the education and upbringing of their children.
HSLDA welcomes other organizations and persons to assist with the amicus process so that a full defense of home education, religious freedom, and parental rights can be given to the California Supreme Court.
The second appellate option is to seek to have this particular decision “depublished.” Depublication is a decision that can only be made by the California Supreme Court. If the Court determines that the decision should stand, regarding this family, on the facts presented, but that the general pronouncements of law for all of homeschooling should not be determined by this case, then the Court has the option of “depublishing” the Court of Appeal’s decision. This would mean that the case is not binding precedent in California and has no effect on any other family.
HSLDA will take the lead in an effort to seek to have this case depublished.
Homeschooling has offered a great opportunity for families to give their children a quality education with a moral and philosophical approach that is consistent with each family’s beliefs.
The ability to homeschool freely in California should not depend upon one family in a closed-door proceeding. All families should have the right to be heard since the rights of all are clearly at stake.
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Let’s amend that. According to liberals:
Remember how liberals call Bush “Hiltler”? How they classify conservatives as “facists”?
Well, throughout history, it is folks like Hitler and his fellow facists who attack homeschooling. Even in the last edition of Harry Potter, the first thing Lord Voldemort does is make schooling at Hogwarts mandatory.
Why?
Well, studies indicate that conservatives have more children and that there is a strong likelihood that children will grow up with the same or similar worldview as their parents.
Which means - by default - those who have more children will be the ideological majority.
So what better way to undermine the influence of parents than forcing children into public schools? Public schools where contempt for conservative values, religion, and morality is the first lesson crammed down kids’ throats.
Indoctrination, indeed.
As a resident of California, there is absolutely no way I would place my children in a public school anywhere in the state. I have already had a discussion with both my kids (who are of college age) that, should they get married and have children here in California, they will need to plan (and budget for) how to home school their children, or place them in a private school.
Public education in California (and much of the rest of the country) is dead. The only way this trend can be reversed is to bust up the teachers’ unions. No amount of money, pens, pencils, smaller class sizes —- nothing, will change the situation. Bust up the teachers’ unions!!!
Why not attend a quality public school?
This one seems to be doing particularly well.
This is a very troubling ruling. For parents who find the state school curriculum lacking and cannot afford a private school, this leaves them with few options. You would think that before any parent was prosecuted under this ruling, that the children could be tested to see how they measure against state school guidelines. If a child’s education was seen to neglected, then maybe there would be grounds for prosecution, but the fact remains that studies show that home-schooled children score higher than children educated in state schools. Methinks that is the Board of Education’s real beef.
Great point, English Queen. I don’t go in much for conspiracy theories, but I make exceptions for the public schooling machines in this country. Clearly, so much control has been wrested from the citizens of this country over the past 100 years, that it is really unbelievable when you look at how many schools were once small, local, and often community based: a town hired a teacher to work their school, etc. To now argue that it’s Constitutional to enforce such a change is a travesty, indeed.
Personally I am a proponent of sending my kids to a school, because I appreciate the social cross-cut they’re exposed to there, but I absolutely support any effort to open up the current Forced Public Indoctrination b.s. that we’re seeing now. If some want to homeschool, more the power to them, if others want to start and operate private schools, more the power to them. Frankly, anyone choosing any venue other than public should have no taxes taken out for education either.
It is ludicrous, especially since the public schools are doing such a bad job with “credentialed” teachers. FYI, the first mandatory schooling was in New England, and parents threw rocks at the teachers who were going to force them to give up their kids. Homeschooling has been around forever. Public education, as we know it today, is a direct descendant of German schools from the 1800s that were intended to produce workers, not thinkers. Read John Taylor Gatto if you want more info.
If only they applied these credentialing standards to public school teachers perhaps parents wouldn’t have to remove their children from the public school system to ensure that they get a decent education. The NEA, Board of Education, etc, all have themselves to blame for indoctrinating instead of educating children; thereby causing parents to take their children’s education into their own hands.
This is not only an assault on homeschooling this is an assault on parenting in general.
How bout’ going after illegals that have committed crimes in California with the same zeal. Instead of going after parents that opt out of the worsening school system.
I was home-schooled for three years before college, and my brother and sister are still being home-schooled. Luckily, we live in Indiana, where they recognize the parents’ right to home-school their children and have no special requirements or restrictions other than an attendance of 180 days per school year.
I graduated with a certificate in secondary ed. from a Christian College. I was GRILLED in interviews about my faith. Oddly, it was a public school that hired me and they were thrilled (unofficially of coarse) that I went to a Christian College….go figure (small town Michigan, NOT a mecca for moonbats)
OneOfThem:
While I have no problem with homeschooling, and I detest the political indoctranation in publik schools; I have one issue with homeschooling and I hope, perhaps, you can shed some light on it.
Do you feel as though you were not given enough of a social outlet and/or exposure to different people and points of view?
Do you think that you may have “missed out” on some things by having been homeschooled?
Here in FL, homeschoolers have to score higher on college entrance exams to qualify for a state scholarship. So aren’t the public schools admitting that they can’t do as good a job right since their students get lower standards to qualify? Just asking.
Katie:
That sounds more to me like the state is biased against homeschoolers and feels that homeschooled children must “prove themselves.”
Parents who lack teaching credentials cannot educate their children at home, according to a state appellate court ruling that is sending waves of fear through California’s home schooling families.
Watch this video to get an idea of what the parents are up against when they challenge the teachers union: Education Revolt In Watts
Vikki Reyes has had it with Locke High, the school her daughters attend in the Watts neighborhood of Los Angeles. She walked in on class one day and recalls “the place was just like a zoo!” Students had taken control, while the teacher sat quietly with a book.
Frank Wells has also had it with Locke High. When he became principal he says gangs ruled the campus. He tried to turn things around but ran into a “brick wall” of resistance from the school district and teachers union.
Sounds like a few chapters from Karl Marx. Remove Parental Rights, Indoctrinate the Children, “for the good of the State”.
Fill them up with Revisionist History, Eliminate Prayer, no curriculum regarding the Bill of Rights, Federalist Papers, the US Constitution or Individual Rights or Freedoms.
Create a Socially Engineered Socialist population in just one generation.
The Perfect Solution designed by todays DEMONcrats. All good PARTY, Whoops, NEA Members doing “their bit”.
Marx, Lenin and Stalin would be very proud!
Fascism to say the least. This is the liberal agenda to a ‘t’. Boost up the teachers unions, downplay the home schoolers or vouchers systems, and finally, arrest those who do not comply with our ‘overlords’ the Dems. Phooey. Liberals go to hell.
It’s a misconception that homeschool kids don’t have a social life, don’t have a world view, don’t have a life outside the home.
Homeschool kids go out and play. With kids in the neighborhood even! With the flexibility of homeschooling, a parent could take them to a museum, a play, an event that they wouldn’t get to go to while being in the classroom.
Homeschooling only gives the parents the right (which is their right, by the way) to decide when and how those worldviews and perspectives are introduced to their children.
I’ve known many homeschooled children, and they are the most intelligent, bright, and well-adjusted adults.
The notion they live like prisoners is just foolish.
zeroangel~
I don”t have kids and wasn’t homeschooled (product mostly of DoDDS schools in Germany, which was almost like attending private schools), but I do know that homeschoolers often get together to allow their children to be socialized. My best friend, who has a MA in voice, for a while taught at a place where the students were homeschooled. Basically, she was helping provide the “extracurriculars” for the kids. She also commented that these kids she worked with were some of the most well-adjusted young people she’s known…
Now, if “a woman’s right to choose” is construed to be a Constitutional right, how can her “right” to educate her children at home not be? Am I missing something?
englishqueen / Miss Ladybug:
Thank you for your input, but I was really interested in what OneofThem (or anyone else that was homeschooled) had to say being as how he lived it.
I have heard all the things you both have said. But I have never had the chance to ask a homeschooled person this question directly.
I only knew one in college, and IIRC, he went wild with drinking and partying. However, his parents were also devout “Hassidic” ? Jews, and I suppose they may have smoothered him in other areas, not just schooling.
Barry F~
Conversely, I want someone to show me how it’s the states responsibility to educate our children. I don’t see that as something the federal government is responsible for in the Constitution, and I doubt it’s in many (if any) state constitutions…
Sounds like the state has a lower bar to meet than what is imposed on homeschoolers.
Barry F.:
Thats an excellent point and I agree.
Very good Barry F (#20). Liberals talk out both sides of their mouth and never apologize for the ways when proven wrong, they just move on to another subject to downplay our country.
Miss Ladybug-
You forgot that we have illegal aliens in this country and as far as La Raza and others are concerned, it is Mexico’s right to have an education here in the States. Ask any Lib.
The socalled defenders of education have been so indoctrinated with their self deluded importance in the shapeing of young minds that they have lost track of the basic princioples to education.
The teachers union is more inclined to worry about how much the teachers are getting paid for as little work they do do.
When such B.S. is being taught as the Alamo was filled with slave owners and the mexican government went to help free slaves, we started WW II, and that having morals is bad. Do we really want to put more youth into such an enviorment.
Fact that American educational scores compared to world wide scores have declined. Reason this a direct corrolation to when the social issues took precidence over the basics. A direct link to the way our educational system has been dumbed down.
Your honor, I am unfamiliar with the California constitution, but what constitutional right does the state have to demand that it be the gatekeeper of knowledge and that all who wish to learn must go through its system?
I personally plan on sending my future kids to private schools, as I would prefer they have a more “normal” school environment than homeschooling provides (Yes, I know it can be quite normal, thank you, I’m aware).
But who on earth gave the state the right to be the only source of knowledge? Certainly not the people. And where do these “credentials” come from that magically make people qualified to teach?
In this case, for these kids, sure, I can see some need to keep them out of a strict homeschooling arrangement so long as the claims of abuse are reasonable. And monitoring needs to go on to make sure kids are not being abused at all - it’s hard to dispute that. But a blanket statement for everyone? That’s simply wrong.
Chelsea Clinton went to private school!
Now wait just a minute.
I don’t have a credential, and right now we don’t plan on homeschooling my children… however I do plan on augmenting whatever my children are taught in school with some of my own lessons to give them more knowledge. Does this mean I cannot teach them or help them with their homework when their school does an awful job of explaining simple concepts to them, or even tries to teach “new math”?
and she works for a hedge-fund company. Two no-no’s for the Clinton camp. But how can one criticize their own.
zeroangel~
I think going “wild with drinking and partying” has nothing to do with homeschooling so much as how tightly controlled the child was by their parents. I have a friend from college who was not homeschooled, but because of the parents’ religious views, didn’t allow their children to be exposed to “the real world” (she was from a small Texas town, and dad was a farmer).
When she got to college (she was the first to go, although she had an older sister), she didn’t know how to handle the freedom she now had. She eventually grew out of that destructive behavior, thank goodness. But, she had her share of drunken behavior, to include drinking to the point of projectile puking (I got to drag her to the bathroom at the apartment we were visiting & then somehow managed to drive us back to campus in her car before I could drive a stick-shift).
It’s my opinion that as parents, you must allow your children to have increasing amounts of freedom as they get older so they’ll be more likely to make responsible choices when they are on their own for the first time…
What do you expect from the liberal, BIG government state of CA? The teachers union wins.
Homeschoolers are anathema in a state run by liberals. It prevents citizens for entering the indoctrination centers (schools) being run by the NEA.
Have to catch citizens when they are young to make sure they are brainwashed in the appropriate leftwing way of thinking.
It just kills the libs when home schooled kids win all the competitions that judge actual learning.
I have 3 kids being homeschooled in California, and their homeschool is a public school. So this sounds like the local school district can’t try anything to bring my kids back to their school district (which I’ve fought with).
My kids are getting a free public education at home and have an accredited teacher.
I think that this will effect smaller ‘private’ religous schools, which don’t have an accredited teachers/program.
But any religous schools could organize themself to just use the public school that I use (it’s http://www.cava.com, and their are similar schools in a bunch of other states), then just add on any religous classes that they want.
My first thought is that this silly ruling would disqualify virtually all professionals from being able to teach their professions (music, acting, art, science, writing, etc.) to children. How incredibly short sighted is that!
I also wonder, if California courts prevent parents from homeschooling their children, then could a parent compare school performance for a private school and for a public school, and if the performance of the public school was found lacking, could that parent sue the state and force them to pay tuition for a private school education, under the “equal protection” clause?
After all, shouldn’t the state guarantee that all children receive the same quality of education? If children are forced by court order to go either to private school or public school, and if the state-run public schools don’t provide it, isn’t it the state’s responsibility to make up for the quality of education lacking in their schools? Certainly this is not any more nutty than other cases taken up by California courts. And it would scare the $&!t out of liberals.
What would the effect be of all those home-schooled students suddenly enrolling in the local public schools? Especially in light of the current budget curtailments….
At least the flip side is there will be a state-wide proposition put on the ballot within 1 or 2 years that very-well may say there is a right to home-school children, and very-well may amend the state Constitution, and may very-well create a very homeschool friendly atmosphere. I would not be surprised if this happened.
So, we can find and charge 166,000 parents , but we can’t do anything about illegals because they’re in the shadows and we can’t find them. Heh.
And blame #1 goes to the parents everywhere. It’s their kids, they pay a lot of money for schools and education, but they can’t be bothered to show up for meetings, keep up with what’s going on, and demand better. They allowed this to happen over a period of many years. These ass clowns in public ed couldn’t have done it without them.
The SAT score is the great equalizer.
Most home schooled kids have the opportunity to go on to Higher Education with American Values if the home schooling has been effective.
The erosion of Parental Rights is the goal of the NEA and the DEMONcrats.
Commisars of Education, purveyors of Social Engineering, “for the good of the State”.
What are parents choices?
Private school at $10k plus per year, home schooling, or public schools?
It was mentioned above about teacher’s unions and that is the major issue here.
In our school district we are fighting Arnold’s proposed $27 million cuts but that is only going to affect the teachers and children, (427 layoffs, 266 of them teachers)
But the districts superintendent is such a good guy that he has decided to forgoe his approved base salary raise from $245k to $273k. What a guy!! It’s all for the children he turned down a $975k 3 year contract!
Here is what he said…“It is not the time to be receiving additional money,” Carter said in an e-mail to the school board this morning. “Timing could not be worse. That may change later in the year, but not right now.”
Maybe later….after we make the cuts and people forget about this. Then it is time.
This is in a school district where we have 52% of kids on free lunches and a higher percent are english learners!
sorry for the somewhat off topic rant but it’s an issue that gets my heart rate up.
Guess what your honor, there ain’t no constitutional right to have internet access, own an automobile, or skydive out of airplanes either that doesn’t make those activities illegal.
The the university teaching curriculum generally deals with sociology, child psychology, teaching methods, professional decision making, and group dynamics. It is important to understand these things if you are going to teach in an organized school with one or two (or, God forbid, three) dozen children in a classroom. But if you are teaching your own children, they are largely irrelevant.
The common misconception of home schooled children is that they are troglodytes, kept in seclusion by ignorant and fearful parents. Most home schooled children that I know are very social and very active in peer groups in church or other social venues like Scouting or Little League. They learn from each other as well as from their parents at home.
If you teach your homeschooled child to believe in God as part of his/her curriculum, then it is the parents sole right to teach their children. As the Constitution seperates Church/State, one could argue that it is the State that has no constitutional right to teach our children.
old trooper. Excellent comparison. California: The first communist state.
As a former teacher, I have to say that this CA court ruling is very troubling not only for CA homeschoolers but US homeschoolers. I’ve been reading what’s been happening to German homeschoolers and how the German government considers homeschooling to be a parallel culture that somehow “threatens” government school indoctrination/inclusion practices.
My husband and I are considering homeshooling when and if we have a child. I am a licensed Social Studies teacher in 3 states but the way the system is set up, it really doesn’t matter. If states and school districts keep incompetent, tenured teaching professionals, new, talented teachers have few opportunties to actually make a difference.
As somebody who has worked in the public school system the past 5 years, homeschooled kids aren’t really “missing out.” Homeschooling associations plan and provide socializing opportunites such as sports teams and team teaching. As to the CA mandatory licensing of anyone teaching children… there are licensed professionals that are ill-prepared and incompetent and shouldn’t be in the classroom. You can look up state curriculums, plan accordingly, do research, or team teach to make up for any state judged “deficiencies.” Mandatory licensing is just another impediment for parents who want some control over what their kids are taught.
Parents should have educational choices and the NEA and their overeaching state arms are the ones violating the Constitution. Why should anyone have to put up with bad schools when they have the opportunity to put their kids in a better educational foothold? This is just one more example of how increasing governmental interference limits individual choices in areas like education.
I am a resident of California’s Central Valley (red California), and have four children who have attended public schools, and for the most part I’ve been pleased with the education that my children have received. The last one will be graduating from high school in four years, after which I will breathe a sigh of relief.
I’ve lived in the Golden State my entire life, and despite its shortcomings, I’m grateful for two provisions in the California Constitution: the recall provision, which allowed us to oust Gray Davis (although admittedly his successor, Ahnold, hasn’t been much better), and the opportunity to vote to extend the terms of State Supreme Court justices. The latter allowed the removal of Rose Bird and two other justices a few years ago. I mention this because if the State Supreme Court upholds the lower appellate court ruling that parent’s do not have the right to home school their children, I would expect that justices who uphold the appellate court ruling may have to face the wrath of a number of angry voters.
I’d like to see the Constitutional authorization for the Department of Education. Individuals don’t need authorization, it is the government that needs authorization. Or, to borrow from Family Guy: “in Soviet Russia, school chooses you!”
Since when? Have a source for that? I qualified for the FL Bright Futures scholarship in 2001 (as a homeschooler), and I wasn’t aware that my SAT scores had to be higher than those of public school applicants. I had to take SAT II (individual subject tests) because I didn’t have grades to submit, but the requirements for those weren’t very high. As I recall, I only needed a 1270 SAT score (out of 1600) to qualify for the full scholarship.
By the way, the FL Bright Futures scholarship is brilliant, because it is funded by a State Lottery. A State Lottery is a capitalist’s dream come true — it is a voluntary tax. Love it.
“Parents do not have a constitutional right to home school their children,”
I wasn’t home-schooled, but my parents taught me math and reading before and during public school:
“The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people”
+
“Unlike at least 30 other states, home schooling is not specifically addressed in California law”
=
“Parents do have a constitutional right to home school their children”
You don’t have to be an “accredited teacher” of constitutional law to figure that out.
I am so glad we did not retire from the Air Force when stationed in the People’s Republic of California (PRC). I am also happy that we have not had school age children at home for 6 years now. It was not much of a struggle to keep our son level headed when it came to fighting the indoctrination of the NEA sponsored lesson plans he was exposed to. The wife and I worked pretty hard on him to keep a proper perspective of the BS they were passing on to him.
From what I hear from my brother who is part of the teaching cartel in the PRC the NEA has done a great job of dumbing down the kids and there is absolutely no discipline. He also has to keep his mouth shut about his political and conservative views or it will kill him as an administrator in the school district he works in. I have been trying to talk him into leaving, but he still likes living in the Sacramento area. I hope he sees the light soon and grabs his family and flees before it is too late.
For those that home school in the PRC you might want to start looking at some other place to live in the near future. I know I and my family are a lot happy living in the middle of nowhere Idaho.
If CA has an initiative process, it seems like it is high time to propose an initiative to protect homeschoolers from persecution.
Public schooling is child abuse.
Perhaps it’s the math problems that the homeschoolers are teaching that CA. doesn’t like.
Sample Math problems:
1) There are 7 boys playing in the yard.
2 boys are homosexual fornicators. How many boys left after the good Lord smites the homosexual fornicators?
2) The abortion clinic murders 12 unborn children a day. How many of Gods Chilren will the abortion clinic murder in 7 days?
3) There are 36 gangbangers at the school. 1/3 of them have guns. How many guns are in the school?
Lock’em up! Oh yeah, California doesn’t have any space in their jails; give’em 20-minute sentences like they were moviestars.
California is a failure, Arnold is a joke.
Ridiculous. The courts don’t have a constitutional right to create laws, but it doesn’t seem to be slowing the judicial activism.
On March 6th, 2008 at 11:22 am, Mark Jaquith said:
On March 6th, 2008 at 10:04 am, Katie in FL said:
Here in FL, homeschoolers have to score higher on college entrance exams to qualify for a state scholarship.
Since when? Have a source for that? I qualified for the FL Bright Futures scholarship in 2001 (as a homeschooler), and I wasn’t aware that my SAT scores had to be higher than those of public school applicants.
Mark - Just a quick peek at HSLDA’s site I found what Katie in FL is talking about: “House Bill 957 - This bill amends the requirements of students in a home education program to be eligible to receive the Bright Futures Scholarship, removing the current requirement which mandates homeschoolers have a higher score than public school counterparts.”
It seems that things had changed since you qualified in 2001.
I’ve been homeschooling my three rugrats since 2001 and am continually amazed at the bias against homeschoolers. Not to mention, the “socialization” question/concern is absurd (for most - there are freaks in EVERY environment).
Make no mistake, folks.
The education of our kids is one of the front lines, if not THE critical front line, in our currently “cold” culture war.
The back of the teachers’ unions has got to be broken.
Barring that, nothing is going to change; in fact, if you can believe it, things will only get worse.
Very busy today.
No time to read most of above posts.
Apologies….
In Baker County Florida, the school board is grateful for the real home-schoolers. You know, the ones that actually teach their children instead of “declaring” and then letting their kids enter the workforce in ignorance.
In fact, the school superintendent is happy to see the progress that home-schooled children make and uses it as a standard for those in government schools.
My wife has a solid relationship with the local bureaucrats. They appreciate what she does, and vice-versa. It’s up to the home-schooling parents to at least attempt to establish an understanding that neither side will threaten the other.
These “allegations” of abuse are usually because some busy-body thinks they know how to raise children better than parents. Leave it to government to put such a practice in place.
Actually, from the
liberalmake thatprogressivecommunist view - only the state has a right to all children -for indoctrination first, education only to a point, and only what the
liberals progressivescommunists want them to know and no more.Many here are right that we must work to remove not just the teachers unions, but the fed and state from dictating the operation of primary and secondary schools. Exclusive management must not be higher than local/county level - EVER!
Got a chuckle out of that on, madchef.
I was homeschooled, and I think I am much better socialized than I would have been if I had gone to a formal school. Homeschoolers tend to get together a lot - a couple afternoons a week at times - either for school purposes (something like music or art that one of the parents can teach) or just for fun (soccer and square dances around here).
One thing people forget is that homeschooler groups are mixed in regard to age, so that children grow accomstomed to dealing other children of different ages and with adults. In my experience homeschooling tends to socialize children better than a traditional classroom.
I was recently diagnosed with Asperger’s Syndrome. I can fit into society fairly easily, but I shudder to think of how I might have turned out if dropped into a classroom at age 5 or so and left to cope.
This is so annoying - that the government thinks it knows what is best for homeschooling families.
I homeschool my kids in Oklahoma - a very homeschool friendly state. And I pulled my kids because of the secular/liberal curriculum they were pushing on my 2nd grader. In Oklahoma no less!
I feel for all the parents in CA who homeschool - stay strong and fight! We do have a right to our kids - putting them in the hands of the government is scary.
I’m just happy that California has solved all their other problems, and can now focus on the great evil of home schooling.
Can you imagine the gall of forcing a parent to send their kids to a completely inadequate school, citing the best interest of the child, or whatever other BS line they come up with?
Next up for California: “Your child tested well in metal shop, so his application to Harvard has been denied and he will be assigned to the local Machine Union #207. It’s really for the good of everyone, and isn’t that what really matters?.”
I thought we had a right to Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Evidently California disagrees.
How is the state supposed to indoctrinate kids if parents are schooling them? How else will the kids learn about homosexuality, global warming and guest workers? Also, there’s 166,000 kids not contributing to the budget deficits in California.
BTW, as far as I know the State doesn’t have the constitutional right to tell parents who can educate their kids. If that were so, there would be no private schools for the same liberal judges to send their kids to. Where are the state legislators? Apparently, they’re pretty quiet.
This is another example of what liberals can do to society and why people are leaving that poor excuse for a state in droves.
Thank you Doug’s Blog for this info.
Justice Thomas wrote in Morse v. Frederick
I don’t recall anywhere in the constitution where it gives the government the right to educate our children.
Average citizen: “I don’t want to send my child to a public school. I want to teach them myself, at home.”
California Government (using one of those Borg voices from Star Trek): “It is futile to resist. You will be assimilated.”
I’m a recent elementary ed. graduate/EC-4 certified teacher in Texas. One of the reasons I decided to go into teaching is that I refuse to abandon education to the Left (and believe me, some of my classmates were stereotypical Lefties - I was in a Masters program). Since I haven’t gotten my own classroom yet, I still sign up for the university’s teacher job fairs. I just signed up for the next one today, and I see at least one CA district will be in attendance. Needless to say, I won’t bother visiting their table next month…
That’s life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Perhaps that may be part of the problem. Planet California has no respect for life, either….but I digress.
Remember, friends, “As California goes…”
I believe John Kennedy was a liberal. Today JFK would probably be considered too far right to the leadership in today’s Democratic Party.
They’ve highjacked the label “liberal” when it no longer applies to mainstream Democratic leadership. AND they hide their true communist ideology behind the term “Progressive”.
We’ve got to start calling them what they really are and stop using the word “liberal” when naming them.
Yeah! You go Clarence Thomas!
Hello, California? Have you heard of SCOTUS?
Califonia Court: “SCOTUS? We don’t need no stinken’ SCOTUS!!”
This kind of totalitarian overreach in the name of “educating the children” is only a half-step shy of Plato’s ant-like society in The Republic.
Homeschooling is perhaps the ultimate battleground between the liberal’s inherent mistrust of the individual to make the right decisions for himself or his family, and the conservative’s acquired wariness of politicians, judges and bureaucrats hissing platitudes about “The Children”(TM) and “The Greater Good”(TM).
What liberals like the judge behind this decision have great difficulty comprehending or believing is that personal liberty vs. government power is a zero-sum transaction. When one grows stronger, the other grows weaker; when one wins, the other loses.
But in their minds, this whole “freedom” thing is overrated, anyway. At least until someone suggests putting the speedbrakes on their “alternative lifestyles” - but that’s a different topic…
To add further insult to injury, Croskey was appointed to the California District Two Court of Appeals by Republican governor George Deukmejian in 1987.
I think that ‘from each according to their abilities, to each according to their needs’ is great as long as I get to satisfy my extensive needs and relax because of my paltry abilities. Unfortunately, some dumb a** dweeb bureaucrat will decide that I have incredible abilities and paltry needs. Thus did the Communist religion kill 100 million people in about 70 years. Public schools will never teach children this and they don’t want anyone to learn it at home either. BTW 100 million people in 70 years is approximately three people per minute for every single minute of every hour of every day of every year for 70 years…pretty f’ing evil. No they don’t want to teach kids history or math.
Another move by the imperial judiciary.
What’s troubling is the idea that you don’t have rights to your children, the government does.
Thank you, liberalism!
I heard on talk radio that Nebraska is also trying to outlaw home schooling.
I have been told that the school gets X amount of money per day for every warm body at school. If the kids are home schooled, the school doesn’t get the money. I have also been told if a child is sick, not too sick, to wait till after 10 to get the parent to come get them. That way the kid is counted for the day at school and get their money. I can not confirm these though.
L
Go here:
read that.
cry for me: as a california teacher I have to give these jackasses $1000 a year in union dues.
the unions must be destroyed
Attorneys for the home-schoolers ought to randomly select students and teachers from public schools from across California and have them answer questions openly in court.
This way the court and the public can access the quality of the students and teachers versus that of home schooling parents and their children.
Let’s put it out there in open, in court for the world to decide.
In Tennessee, the local school districts are reimbursed by the state on what is called the “average daily attendance”. During the first 90 days (I think it is), the school district is required to submit their attendance records to the state. Children that are truant from school cost the local government about $6,500+/- per year per truant student. Those losses are made up on the local level in property tax and other tax increases.
Everyone always mentions socialization issues to argue against homeschooling, but no one ever mentions the fact the schools are set up so that students spend all day only with kids their own age.
Where in your adult life will that be your environment? In the 20+ years since I graduated HS, I’ve had to work with people 15 years younger to more than 30 years older. I’ve also worked in group settings as well as on my own.
How did sitting in a classroom with 20 of my peers whose birthdays fell before an arbitrary date on the calendar prepare me for that?
Parental rights have most definitely been defined by the SCOTUS through out the years. The first case that forced an interpretation was Myer Vs. Nebraska in the early 20’s (can’t remember the exact year), and there have been consistent rulings to the present time that has only upheld and strengthened the interpretation.
Parental rights are covered under the Liberty clause of the Constitution, and under said rights parents not only have the right, but the responsibility to educate their children. It is under these very Supreme Court rulings that the Amish are allowed to educate their children in a very different way than the school system — they end at a younger age and teach at a different pace. Amish parents are preparing their children to live within the Amish community, and the SCOTUS respected that. All parents have the right to educate their children. It’s not the State’s right!
People home school for many reasons. It is not the State’s right to make decisions for minor children that are not in the State’s custody. They are usurping the rights of the individual citizen and this can not be allowed to happen.
In essence if California upholds this and makes home schooling parents put their children into an outside school, then it is no different, in principle, than if they had taken the guns away from their citizens and told them they would make the decision on what to do with them… no it’s worse than that actually.
This is absolutely preposterous!
Cheerio~
I feel for you. Luckily, I live in a state where teachers unions are against the law (TX). We do have “professional organizations” we can join in order to get the (not required but very smart to have) professional liability insurance. When choosing which organization to join, I made sure to find one NOT affiliated with any national group. My membership fees (as an “associate”, I think they call it, since I only sub right now), was less than $100. If I were you, I’d seriously consider moving to another state, if at all possible…
The Thunder Run has linked to this post in the - Web Reconnaissance for 03/06/2008 A short recon of what’s out there that might draw your attention, updated throughout the day…so check back often.
There are plenty of reasons a lot of parents would want to homeschool their children. This recent story out of Alabama is just one example of many.
College campuses aren’t looking much better. Two female students have been shot in two days at Southern colleges in North Carolina and Alabama, both of whom hailed from Georgia.
This is extremely disturbing. Will we need parenting licenses soon also?
There’s also been a rash of robberies on the Marquette campus here in Milwaukee.
But it goes beyond the safety in schools, which I think could be solved by not making campuses gun-free (read: defenseless victims aplenty) zones.
Here in Wisconsin, our teachers union lobbied to have Virtual Schools (which have accredited teachers and are a form of homeschooling) shut down. Their motive? Because parents are “too involved” in the education, and since parents aren’t certified to teach, it’s a violation of the law…
During a hearing about the matter, a lawyer for the Wisconsin DPI said - and I quote:
Brace yourselves, especially those of you who are homeschooling parents, and specifically those of you who are Christian homeschooling parents — the liberal education facists are after you for daring to exercise your right to educate your child as you see fit.
Don’t give them any ideas. Liberals have often tossed about the idea of “parental certification” in order to allow people to have children.
Which means, of course, that folks like me would probably be shipped off and sterlized ASAP. Can’t have me passing on my conservative ideologies, now, can we?
englishqueen~
I quite agree. Yes, there are people who shouldn’t be parents. But, as soon as the government begins deciding who can and cannot have children… What personal liberty would be lose next? And, there are mechanisms for truly rescuing children who are in truly abusive homes (although that system, like anything run by the government, does have glaring deficiencies in far too many cases…).
Michelle
Remember in 2005 the 9th US Circuit in Fields v Palmdale USD ruled that parents rights to influence public school curriculum ends at the threshold to the school.
“Parents do not have a constitutional right to home school their children,” wrote Justice H. Walter Croskey in a Feb. 28 opinion…
Really now. How are these fools retained on the bench. Shouldnt such a statement be grounds for immediate judicial recall?
I guess that depends on how they get their positions. Texas seems to elect it’s Supreme Court. I guess other states do like the federal judiciary and judges are appointed “for life”. Not sure how you go about removing someone with a “for life” appointment… But, it would be nice if these judicial overreachers could be removed from their positions of power…
First, the specifics of this case seem to indicate that eliminating homeschooling is the an excuse to monitor kids they think are being abused.
“requested that the court require them to physically attend a public or private school where adults could monitor their well-being.”
Also, too many homeschooling families have been content to leave things in legal limbo while knowing that the union sharks hated them. This case doesn’t require that actual abuse to have occured to the kids for it to be held up by the haters as an example of why homeschooling is bad.
Teacher certification is nothing more than a means of conrolling access to the profession. When I was in school, I looked into what it would take to get certification. It amounted to a semester and a half of coursework that was strung out over all four years. There was no way for me to double up and get the required classes before graduation (I was already a sophmore) because they were four years of stacked pre-requisites. I have since looked into it at various times as a potential career change and it is ALWAYS a four year program. Career teachers only, no engineers allowed.
The unions like to throw “certification” around like it the good housekeeping seal of approval, but it is a sham.
California builds a school a day which means the hire at least a new staff a day as well. They people they get are a mixed bag, note that some of the biggest dummies on Jay Leno “Battle of the Jay walk all stars” are California certified school teachers.
I will recommend to my kids that they get the certification in college just in case they want to homeschool.
I was homeschooled from about 4th grade to grade 9.. went to public high school in grade 10 through 12 to graduate..
I didn’t have too much of a problem with the social aspect of school.. I was active in BSA and knew a few people from that..
the one negative I have about public school and it wasn’t really about homeschooling at all but about being the new kid in a small town high school (the only high school) where everyone had the clicks already.. didn’t make good friends until college..
I was new to the area as well, so that would have happened regardless of being transfered from a different school or from home school
Most everything has been said. I’m all in favor of home schooling, and I’m not at all a “friend” of California. However, this issue is not a case for SCOTUS. This is for the individual states to decide. The only way SCOTUS could get involved is if the country was under a federal school system. We’re not, thank goodness. The intent of the Constitution was to allow a state to decide matters for itself, if it involved only that state. If the California Supreme Court ruled that home-schooling was illegal, that would pretty much finish it. You could, possibly, appeal under the “right to privacy”. This was a right established under, if you remember, Roe vs Wade. That’s stretching it a bit, but it might bring the issue national attention. I doubt the federal government would go so far, like they always liked, to hold federal money. I can really sympathize with those people stuck in such a socialist state, as California. Unless the people decide enough is enough, which is extremely doubtful, I’m afraid more and more personal liberty will disappear. Amazing that the people of this country seem to cheer the loss, based on the elections of 2007 and the Presidental race.
I was bullied at school daily for ten years; no one has ever explained to my satisfaction how that “socialization” was better for me than just turning me loose and letting me learn.
Gosh…I hope and pray that the California Supreme Court wouldn’t say that homeschooling here in CA is illegal. Everyone out there please pray for us homeschoolers here in CA so that things will turn out pro-homeschooling!
For those who just don’t know and are worried about socialization. Most homeschoolers that I know want to get out and not be stuck with their kiddos all day either. We get out. Do activities/field trips. My boys are involved in church, cub scouts, and chess. For chess, we go to Balboa Park here in San Diego, every Friday. They exposed to quite a few interesting things/people there. Our boys also participate in chess tournaments as well. They do get their fill of activities.
CHS, you bet you’re in our prayers!
darn~
I became a teacher just recently. I previously had earned a BBA in accounting. I wanted to do elementary ed, and found a Masters program at an area state institution (TX). It required 36 hours of course work and one semester of student teaching. I started part-time in June 2005, took full loads beginning fall semester 2005 and graduated in December 2006. However, if you are looking to teach/be certified in a specific content area (math, English, science, history/social studies), you would also have to have a certain number of credit hours in that area, too. Then, there were the certification exams, which I aced. Now, I just need to find a teaching job…
I do not blame the schools or the courts for this. I mean, how can the schools brainwash our children if they are at home learning reasonable truth?
WHERE IS THE ACLU NOW?
I don’t really think that Gabriel Malor mentioned above at Ace of Spades is correct…of course, I’m not a legal eagle; but as a homeschooler I’m still unsettled about this whole thing.
I mean we have quite a few talk radio people who are/were lawyers that have talked about this and have not offered this up at all. Do you think that HSLDA (homeschooling defense) is just wanting business and whipping us all up into a frenzy? I don’t know.
I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for the ACLU. Remember, this group is an outgrowth of the American Communist Party, so they have a solid leftist agenda. Many of their “lawyers” are just out of law school…looking for causes that interest naive and gullible grads. They gain experience, and, at the same time, feel like they’re doing the country some “good”. Home-schooling versus very liberal state schooling? Which side do you think they’re on?
This is insane!
The government does not have a constitutional right to indoctrinate our children.