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1. Possible Progress re School Shootings « Heidelblog
2. The Incremental Approach to Concealed Carry : Conservative247
3. Marginalized Action Dinosaur » Military vetrans in Oklohoma allowed to carry concealed handguns on Campus.
4. School shootings…The start of a solution -- Defense For Real People

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Comments

1. #266553
   On March 14th, 2008 at 3:59 pm, BB said:

   Gee, get some common sense bills like this passed and I might rethink where I choose to live.

2. #266555
   On March 14th, 2008 at 4:07 pm, geminicontender said:

   I’d like to think the same thing BB.

3. #266558
   On March 14th, 2008 at 4:11 pm, corona said:

   Did you read the caption? The Germans are hardly 2nd amendment fans.

4. #266565
   On March 14th, 2008 at 4:20 pm, The Raging Republican said:

   Gun control means using two hands when you shoot.

5. #266569
   On March 14th, 2008 at 4:22 pm, see-dubya said:

   Gun control means not leaving your Beretta in McDonalds, that’s for damn sure.

   “WOW Dad, this is the best happy meal prize ever!”

6. #266571
   On March 14th, 2008 at 4:24 pm, The Raging Republican said:

   Might I add:

   Homeland Security means owning a 12 gauge.

7. #266572
   On March 14th, 2008 at 4:26 pm, Ace said:

   “Sounds like a plan. I think faculty and graduate students should have that right as well,”

   Aren’t you forgetting a little segment called the undergraduate student body? You know, the most representative group on campus and most likely to become victims in these tragedies!

   What makes graduate students so special?

8. #266576
   On March 14th, 2008 at 4:29 pm, jungatheart said:

   According to the Germans, anyone who buys a gun is a moron. I hate to generalize but Germans are the most narcissistic people I’ve ever met.

   I’ve said it again and again: The people who are most against other people owning guns are the people most of us would like to shoot so I completely understand their position.

9. #266585
   On March 14th, 2008 at 4:35 pm, On-my-soap-box said:

   Gun control is getting to post threads and doing your first two on guns! LOL

10. #266586
    On March 14th, 2008 at 4:37 pm, letget said:

    Way to go Oklahoma!! Hope this makes it.
    Seems Oklahoma has some good people elected, the illegal thing also is working there. Only problem, TX is getting the illegals from OK, and we have plenty here, thank you. Wish TX would do the same as OK.
    L

11. #266592
    On March 14th, 2008 at 4:41 pm, stevem said:

    Quite honestly, I do not like it. So this bill is saying that I do not have the skills, as a civilian, to protect myself?

    I’m responsible, carry when legally able do so and take training classes. I also shoot in IDPA matches so I can practice shooting on the move during elevated stress (timed, shooting on target and avoiding the “non-threats.”)

    Ask these schools – and places where you work – these two questions.

    Question One: What are you doing to prevent someone from coming in with a firearm and shooting employees in our office or people in our school?

    Their answer? Most likely, they will say that they promote a safe-work environment and weapons are not allowed. Or, this is a gun-free zone. Or we have security on-site… Or we have a police officer stationed at the school.

    Unless the building or campus has limited entry and TSA type security, the answer is nothing, they are doing nothing.

    Question Two: What should we do if a shooter comes into our classroom? Onto our floor in the office? Into the atrium of the building?

    Their answer? Move to a secure place in the building, get out of the way, don’t attract attention to yourself, don’t make eye contact with the shooter…

    In other words, you’re on your own.

    So I’m on my own, but you won’t allow me the ability to protect myself or my family? Thanks a lot.

    I’ll be blogging about this subject over the weekend at Conservative247.

12. #266595
    On March 14th, 2008 at 4:43 pm, Romeo13 said:

    Nah…

    Gun Control means tight groupings on auto…

13. #266598
    On March 14th, 2008 at 4:47 pm, jenmom said:

    Stevem – we live in Oklahoma and my husband said something similar to what you are stating. Why does the bill only cover the military? Why can’t law abiding citizens who have their conceal and carry also be allowed to be armed on campus?

    This is a step in the right direction and maybe they’ll be able to take it a bit further ….. there are plenty of well trained law abiding citizens out there who are capable of responsibly carrying on campus.

14. #266599
    On March 14th, 2008 at 4:48 pm, GaijinBob said:

    Looks like ol’ Pistol Pete is gonna get his six-shooters back.

15. #266601
    On March 14th, 2008 at 4:55 pm, Boomer said:

    If I decide to pursue a post graduate degree it looks like Oklahoma will be added to my list of states I can defend myself while at a college or university. It is really unfair only veterans (so glad I earned my marksmanship ribbon for pistol) are considered the only people capable of defending themselves in a personal combat situation. At least it is better than Idaho’s legislature bowing to the Governor and the left wing school administrators taking away the students 2nd Amendment rights. They did this on the same day of NIU shootings. Boneheads!

    Gun control is using both hands and hitting only the intended target with a tight grouping.

16. #266605
    On March 14th, 2008 at 4:58 pm, twoninerkilo said:

    What! common sense, comming from Gument, unreal, gotta agree with Stevem though; as a vet myself, I know plenty of civilian I’d rather see armed then some of the Turkeys I’ve served with.

17. #266615
    On March 14th, 2008 at 5:12 pm, mojojojo said:

    I wouldn’t call this a victory. It’s a divide-and-conquer tactic that worked.

    Look at H.R.218 that permitted LEO (active and retired) to carry concealed everywhere. Once that passed, there is no longer as strong of a movement for legal carry for the rest of us non-LEO peons–hence no new movement forward for the regaining of our rights.

    I fully respect our military veterans and thank those men and women for their service and sacrifice to this country, but I don’t think that it is right to grant “extra” rights to any group of “super citizens.” What about the rest of us “untermensch???”

    I’m sure some will say “Go join the military if you want to carry.” However, that is just as invalid as when politicians say “Go join the military if you want to fire a gun.” Clearly, the exercise of constitutionally protected rights should not be contingent on military service.

    It is wrong to make laws that require someone be a member of some “protected” special class to exercise your constitutionally-protected rights in America today.

18. #266620
    On March 14th, 2008 at 5:16 pm, uhangtight said:

    what about ex-police or other such authorities? why just military? ex-fbi, ex-cia you know?

    but as far as Edmondson, that is typical and as far as i know this Edmondson has been attorney general for Oklahoma since the early 90’s when I first moved there and when I left in 2003. He has always been that way and keeps getting elected. Funny this is his record breaking term has been elected consecutively since 1994. He is the most corrupt Atty General even more so than Spitzer could ever dream of being.

19. #266624
    On March 14th, 2008 at 5:21 pm, cngerms said:

    If this bill is incrementalism on the way to allowing ALL permit holders to carry on campus, I’ll bite my tongue for a while. Otherwise, Oklahoma college students are now being told, “It’s easier to carry a veteran around with you than it is to carry a policeman.” This is NON-SENSE and utterly ridiculous. Once again, a certain class of citizenry is permitted self-defense over another class. Too many people are dying on our college campuses for no other reason than they “chose to obey BAD laws.” This OK bill is an example of a BAD law.
    Michelle, please explain if you mean to exclude undergrad students from right-to-carry on campus.

20. #266627
    On March 14th, 2008 at 5:30 pm, see-dubya said:

    Actually it’s me writing this, not Michelle, and guest blogger opinion is not necessarily endorsed by the management.

    And yes, undergrads under 21 can’t even legally buy a handgun on their own. If they’re old enough to get a CCW permit, then I say let them carry along with everyone else. Otherwise, no, I don’t think beer, hormones, drugs, and guns mix well. (Unless you’re the Sooners under Barry Switzer, when that was pretty much every day.)

21. #266639
    On March 14th, 2008 at 5:56 pm, cngerms said:

    Sorry see-dubya. Thanks for your reply.

    I, too, agree that anyone with a permit should be “permitted” to carry. Just as a sidebar, I attended a university at which >40% of the undergrads were 28 years old and older. This university had one of the oldest undergrad populations in America. So, the line needs to be drawn at permit or no permit. I will, however, suggest to you that NO age group is immune from the influence of ethanol, hormones, drugs, and just general stupidity. Permit holders, in general, continue to prove themselves to be the most law-abiding of America’s citizens irrespective of age and hormone-levels. There are MANY 21 year olds with permits who are responsibly carrying sidearms and they are willing to defend themselves, their families, and strangers. I hate to see these young folks being defined as those “ruled by hormones, drugs, and booze.” That is not who these people are. They are responsible, trained, and vetted by their states of residence.

    Thanks for doing a great job filling in for the management!

22. #266920
    On March 15th, 2008 at 12:18 pm, SpeakEasy said:

    On March 14th, 2008 at 4:29 pm, jungatheart said:

    According to the Germans, anyone who buys a gun is a moron. I hate to generalize but Germans are the most narcissistic people I’ve ever met.

    While I mostly agree with your position on the right to bear arms, that’s a little too much of a generalization for my tastes; Makes me wonder if you have met and spoken to many German people.

    Considering their past, I cannot understand how Germans could feel safe with only their government having arms. Much in the same way I do not understand John McCain’s sympathetic views on torture for terrorists. In both cases I think there is permanent damage. I would like to state (to stave off a load of angry posts) that I respect Senator McCain as an American and for his service including his horrific treatment by the Vietnamese, but there is not a moral equivalent.

23. #266925
    On March 15th, 2008 at 12:26 pm, SpeakEasy said:

    See-dubya et al,

    I think it is a good stepping-off point for broader concealed-carry rights. My two comments are:

    1. Regarding the rights of ALL students to carry firearms, have you been to college campuses lately? You would have to wear body armour (with inserts) to protect from stray shots!

    2. There are a lot of military members on campus (thanks GI BILL) who have an average of four years of supervised safe weapons handling training. I would agree with the ex-FBI, ex-CIA inclusion but I doubt there are that many on campuses.

24. #267158
    On March 16th, 2008 at 5:28 pm, ScottyDog said:

    Forcing individuals to get a CCW or any other kind of permit is a violation of the 2nd Amendment.

    Maybe if we started holding people responsible for their actions instead of penalizing law abiding citizens, you would not need body armor on campus.

    Once you start violating the Constitution with regulations, you have gone down the slippery slope to making it meaningless.

    I agree with the founders who thought we have a God given right to protect ourselves from criminals and a Government on the rode to Tyranny with Firearms.

    FBI or other Government training does not give anyone the “Judgment” that is required to use guns safely BTW.

    Ruby Ridge and Waco are glaring examples of that “training” being ignored by “trusted” civil servants.

25. #267221
    On March 16th, 2008 at 11:00 pm, Andy said:

    Another reason I’m glad I recently moved my family from Germany to OKLAHOMA!!!