Court to reconsider California home school ruling
Hey, remember that California home-schooling case in which Justice H. Walter Croskey ruled that “Parents do not have a constitutional right to home school their children?”
Well, the ruling is going to be reconsidered by the 2nd District Court of Appeal. Via the SJMercNews:
A state appeals court will reconsider last month’s controversial decision that said parents who home-school their children must have a teaching credential.
The 2nd District Court of Appeal in Los Angeles granted a rehearing Tuesday, essentially voiding the 3-0 decision until it rules again. The decision will now allow home-schooling organizations that had blasted the decision to weigh in.
“Wow!” said Diane Flynn Keith of Redwood City, who edits Homefires, an online home-schooling journal. “I think the judge recognized that he hadn’t done his homework.”
The case centered on a Southern California couple, Phillip and Mary Long of Lynwood, who home-schooled their eight children through the Sunland Christian School in Sylmar. The family came to the attention of Los Angeles County social workers when one of the children claimed the father was physically abusive. The workers learned that all eight children in the family were home-schooled, and an attorney representing the two youngest children asked the juvenile dependency court to order that they be enrolled in public or private school as a way to protect their well-being.
Ruling that the parents had no right to home-school their children because they weren’t credentialed as teachers by the state, Justice H. Walter Croskey pointed to a similar 1953 appellate court decision.
The Longs are being represented by the Pacific Justice Institute, which released a statement saying that Tuesday’s decision was a hopeful sign.
Here’s PJI’s statement on its website:
Pacific Justice Institute has just received word that the court ruling which declared most forms of homeschooling unlawful in California has been vacated. This means the Rachel L. decision, which has sparked a nationwide uproar, will not go into effect as it is currently written. The Second District Court of Appeal has instead decided to re-hear the case, with a new round of briefings due in late April. It would likely take the court several additional months to schedule oral argument and issue another decision.
Today’s announcement by the court that it will re-hear the case reinforces PJI’s position that homeschooling families should continue their current programs without fear of governmental interference. PJI will be actively involved in the upcoming briefs and will continue to post updates and special bulletins on this vital issue.
Brad Dacus, president of Pacific Justice Institute, commented, “We are pleased that the Court of Appeal has decided to re-hear the Rachel L. case, and we are hopeful that the fundamental rights of these parents, our clients Sunland Christian School, and the tens of thousands of homeschooling families in California will be honored. Homeschooling parents should be treated as heroes – not hunted down or harassed by their own government.”
This is welcome news, but the war on homeschooling continues apace.
Linda Whitlock reports on homeschooling in jeopardy. Ken Blackwell notes the antagonism of teachers’ unions. And Juanell Garrett in the Kansas City Star reports on legislative efforts to undermine homeschooling parents.
Stay vigilant.
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Good morning, Michelle. Well, this is good news. I certainly hope it works out for the “smart parents” who want to raise their children right.
So what’s the scoop on the father? free pass? is there proof? if yes, he should be the one removed from the family “to protect their well being”
Great news. Any victory, even a temporary one, over a union is good news. In my view, unions have promoted corruption and communism for years.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
I believe mandatory public school attendance infringes on the childrens’ right to assemble.
Big fan of homeshooling done correctly – big fan.
I’m glad the court is looking into it a little deeper. Seems to me their was a law about compulsory schooling, but did that law say the schooling had to be done by a govenment?
Thanks for the work you do Michelle, you firecracker you.
I am not clear on how they went from a child allegedly being abused to parents who homeschool must be credentialed. One doesn’t seem to have anything to do with the other. If the father was being physically abusive, then he should be placed in jail. Period.
Having lived from 1987-2006 in Germany I thought home schooling our kids was a terrible idea.
After being back in the states for almost 2 years; I think putting our kids in public schools is a
terriblehorrible idea.exactly 30pcs….
if they didnt have a way to get the goods on an abusive father and all they could think of to protect the children was to come up with this home schooling charge, thats nuts, making thousands of loving responsible parents who home school pay a price for 1 abusive father?? were missing more than meets the eye here. imho of course.
aj,
I couldn’t agree more. The dots just aren’t being connected… yet. Hopefully, we’ll get some answers.
This makes no sense to me. Since when do schools protect the well-being of children? I guess this is just another notch in the post regarding the ever expanding role of schools.
It’s all about the money. The school system gets paid by the number of butts in seats. When you start pulling kids, well…
I am blown away by the system. One person can decide if I am smart enough to teach something to my children. What’s next?
I am not a dietician so I need someone to feed my kids.
I am not a professional driver so I must call a taxi to drive my kids around?
I am not a professional singer so I can’t sing my kids to sleep?
I am not a banker so I cannot teach my kids how to take care of their finances?
The list is endless of what I am not a professional at.
My daughter home schools her four children ages 6 to 12. All four of them can read, understand, and quote the KJV Bible and have excelled in all other areas of learning as well. I fear that if they were ever taken and thrust into the socialist agenda, it would be devestating for them.
Bill S.
PS
Please disreguard any spelling errors as I wasn’t home schooled.
They should just be a little bit more picky about which cases they choose to set precedences with… this one was a stretch.
Right, it isn’t about educating children. Why would you think schools would do something crazy like that?…
Not only that, but free expression of religion.
Oh, there’s education. It’s just fuzzy math, revisionist blame-America-first history, the atrocity of “language arts” and sex ed (where everything and anything except abstinence is a-okay).
This is a small victory for homeschooling parents. Yipee!
There was nothing that irritated us more when stationed in the People’s Republic of California (PRC) than a visit from the fascist social workers of their school system. When my father passed away while I was stationed at March AFB we bugged out on a Friday night for home to help mom take care of things. We were gone for two weeks due to the Coroner’s Office requiring 10 days to process the body because my father died in a public park while taking a rest break as part of a 30 mile bike ride. Upon returning to duty the good folks in the school system were all over us about not having our son in Kindergarten.
I was told by the jack booted woman working for the school system that they only allowed one day of excused absence to attend a funeral. That was about the time I went off on her. I stated that I was very sorry my father had the poor taste to die in a public place on a Friday afternoon and we were not notified until that evening and were unable to notify her precious school district so they could get their stipend from the government for the incarceration of my son. She shut-up and quickly left never to be heard from again.
We were very lucky, but have more than one friend when stationed in the PRC that almost ended up in court for the crime of spanking their children in public. Usually when one of us “Enlisted Swine” disciplined our children some Officer’s wife would normally file the complaint. Of course the kids of enlisted always seemed to understand right from wrong and were normally much better behaved.
From our observation the Social Engineers loved to invade the homes of decent parents and let the children of truly abusive parents stay in the dangerous environment until beaten to death or abused to the point the child would never recover physically or emotionally (a far to often case in many communities). The camel is trying to get its nose under the tent to stop home schooling to make sure no child is left behind from the leftist brain washing and dumbing down of our children going on in our public schools today.
We pulled our kids from public school late October (after a horrible start to the year) to home school them. We did this a few weeks before a state-wide standardized test.
The principle called us three or four times trying to get us to bring our kids back for the testing. Each time getting more insistent and blathering on about knowing where our kids stood in comparison with the rest of the state.
We finally told the schools NO just as insistently as they had tried to convince us.
anymore, it’s not only the horrible teachers in schools, but the spoiled minihoodlums and miniskanks parents are sending to these public babysitting organizations.
i’m keeping my fingers crossed for California parents.
where I live at in Lansing, MI, the kids would definitely better off at home
the schools in Lansing are awful.. why everyone in the area tries to send them or even move just outside of town where the better schools are..
the few people I know do not have that option so they homeschool..
as far as being ‘certified’, who wants the child to succeed in life more than the parent..
# 13, boomer wrote:
When we pulled our kids from the schools, the principle also wanted to let us know that they were considered unexcused from school because they did not have the paperwork from the state.
She wanted us to call the school each day and excuse our children. I instead hand-delivered a letter stating our kids were to be excused from this date forward and attached a copy of the paperwork that the state needed to process.
ajmontana and 30pcs,
Some time ago, my church became involved with a very dysfunctional family who was “professionally poor” and who claimed to be homeschooling their children; in reality all they were doing was keeping their 12 year old and 10 year old home to take care of the other children, who were 3, 2, and 1.
My church tried to help financially at first, but after we learned that this family “rode the circuit,” so to speak, from church to church looking for handouts, we stopped the financial aid and instead concentrated on getting both parents working. When those efforts failed (and believe me, we tried — I could write a whole blog post on everything we did for these folks) we called DHS and had their kids removed and placed in a foster home. At the time, the family had been living for a week without running water.
I think this family got a little more than they bargained for from my church, but we did the right thing.
Based on that experience, I can see why a judge would be concerned about anyone having the right to “homeschool.” The family that we tried to help obviously took advantage of the system, to the tragic detriment of their children.
But on the other hand, I wholeheartedly agree that if homeschooled children are indeed being well schooled, if they are involved with other homeschool social networks and if they test at levels that are equal or above children in public school, then the government has no damn business using courts to manipulate parents who homeschool their children.
Who ISN’T a hero these days in right-wing America?
Home schooling can be a good idea, for sure… Especially if the parents have something between their ears.
I know of two families that have done this but sadly it’s because they are Christian fundamentalists who don’t want their kids learning the evils of evolution thus causing the family to burn in eternal hell fire.
They are true heroes.
I have an M.Ed in “Social Foundations of Education” from UVA, and the more anyone studies the history of education in the U.S., the more you realize what a disaster public schools have been to America. Government should NEVER have gotten into public education in the first place.
Where I live the average person pays thousands of dollars in taxes–mostly just to support the public schools. If you could get this money back, you could send your kids to schools that share your values–Catholic schools, Protestant schools, etc.
Plus, socialists would not have a captured audience and guaranteed funding that they use so effectively to undermine American values. ( One of the numerous latest examples, notice how “B.C.E.” and “C.E.” are replacing “B.C.” and “A.D.” in your kids’ history textbooks?)
Socialists are EXTREMELY threatened by school vouchers and home schooling.
Home schooling results demonstrate that parents are MUCH more effective teachers than our “certified” teachers in public schools.
The socialist response to this embarrasing truth: Ban home schooling.
This is the biggest misconception out there, even by Republicans, such as President Bush. Here is an article in the Hoover Institution by Frederick Hess, a scholar at A.E.I. (Lynne Cheney is also an education scholar there). He shoots down this bogus theory–”certified” teachers are good teachers–that the judge used to rule against home schooling.
MikeOK,
Seems as if your church was left with no other choice after you have exhausted all other measures. Do you know if they children have been placed?
Sausage,
You are really exposing your ignorance. I bet the only thing you know about education is what Katie Couric and the New York Times tell you.
Check out my post above, if you want to inform yourself about the truth of homeschooling and “certified” public school teachers. Clue: The former is FAR more effective.
Seriously Gabe, after your hilarious hick-onomics lessons I don’t think you have any room to talk
Btw, nice NASCAR picture…
MikeOK,
I agree your church did the right thing – there are always bad apples in every group but they are the EXCEPTION not the RULE.
This is where you start to lose me:
1. Most homeschooled children are being well schooled as the curriculum choices that are readily available (and pretty darn inexpensive) are abundant.
2. Why do they have to be a part of “other homeschool social networking groups”? This kind of statement is probably the biggest pet peeve of every homeschooling family I know (myself included). While we do belong to a group (for reasons other than social networking) I have found that homeschooled children tend to have just as many if not more opportunities to “socialize” than their public/private school counterparts. Don’t forget that in public school you get in trouble for “socializing”, there is little to no time between classes to truly interact and around here you aren’t even allowed to talk during lunch (unless you have earned time at the “talk table”).
3. Test equal of above children in public schools? That’s pretty easy considering the state of the public school system but what about the children who are failing in public schools? Is it okay for my children to just test equal to them too?
Not trying to jump on you here at all, just want to provide some unsolicited enlightenment.
A fun site to check out is freedomofeducation.net (I’ll attempt to post a link):
An extreme example, if I’ve ever heard one.
I would agree that homeschooling parents aren’t heroes – just damn good parents doing right by their children.
MikeOK – your church did exactly the right thing. The phrase “abusus non tollit usum” is one people need to learn when it comes to homeschooling.
I refuse to believe an 8-hour school day, where kids are kept in desks and not allowed to socialize save for lunch and between classes is *not* “proper socialization” – it’s indoctrination or, at the very least, training to be “good citizens” of the State.
Englishqueen01,
As a frequent reader of your posts, I tip my hat to your eloquence.
I don’t understand why the pressure is on the courts. Why aren’t California homeschoolers simply pushing their elected officials to amend the compulsory-education law?
You are trying to get off topic because you have no facts–just stupid stereotypes you picked up from the MSM, e.g. Homeschoolers don’t like “evolution,” so that is the ONLY reason they choose not to send their kids to public schools.
No, the truth is there is no proof whatsoever that state “certified” teachers are effective teachers. Actually, most state “certified” teachers are probably WORSE teachers than they would be if they had never taken these mandatory classes taught mostly by socialists in “approved” education schools.
They learn “progressive” teaching and discipline techniques. They learn the religious wonders of “multiculturalism” and the evils of “dead, white males.”
These “certified” teachers (who have the lowest GRE scores out of any group) then become indoctrinated liberals in the classroom.
Bottom line: Homeschooling parents do a much better job than “certified” public school teachers at teaching.
Therefore, this California ruling has no backup whatsoever. The clueless judge’s rationale for his loony decision is that in order to be effective, teachers should be “certified” by the state. It is complete nonsense.
I’m glad that the case will get another hearing. This won’t be the last we hear about homeschooling and liberals/feux-conservatives trying to shut it down. When the public education elite refuse to actually “educate” our children, American families and parents are left with no choice but to take matters into their own hands.
Teaching certification has always been a scam. The certification fees put money in the pockets of the state departments of education and the testing companies who oversee exams such as the Praxis. Some of the stuff I needed to know to pass my Social Studies Praxis would barely cover what used to be taught in my parents’ generation.
Some states make it really easy to get certified (in AL, you pay a fee, show that you have a prerequisite number of credits to teach a certain subject and voila!- you get your certification). In states like NY or CO, you need to take either one or a series of certification exams to “prove” you’re qualified to teach (even though you may have that bachelor’s or master’s degree in education already). In the state I live in now (VA), not only do you need to pass a certification exam but take Special Education and Child Abuse CEU’s to prove you’re worthy of teaching.
The states put teachers through a lot of hoops just to teach… however, just because you can pass a test doesn’t mean you’ll be a good teacher. This is where the curriculum planners in each state enter the picture and determine what “should” be taught to children. Some of these curriculum requirements must be used to meet the standards for state exams which also meet criteria for No Child Left Behind (since the federal government studies which students are “making the grade” and which ones are failing).
What’s really obvious is how overly bureaucratic and bloated the DOE, its state arms, and the public school systems have become. If you’re a taxpayer paying for an underperforming teacher, where’s the fairness? Public schools should be accountable to the taxpayers and how much they should actually be “funded” when they put up for vote building projects like new schools or stadiums.
Why can’t education become more competitive? As a teacher, I don’t have a problem with this.
Liberal judges tend to decree that partial-birth abortion must be preserved because there might be that one medical case that demands such protection.
Liberal judges also tend to decree that gun ownership rights and home schooling must be severely regulated, limited, or even abolished because there might be that one kook who abuses such a right.
It continues to be a liberals’ world, we just live in it.
But absolutely true. Nice people, but that is the reason why they did it.
The schools would be teaching the kids things, that they believed, contradicted their literal interpretation of the Bible.
That’s fair… I think most parents only want the best for the kids, it’s just there are many who are simply not qualified to do so.
And yes, I agree, they are not heroes.
Need to ask who makes the money if home schooling is curtailed, restricted or requires teaching certification—those are the culprits behind this. Two possible answers: The teacher’s unions and the teacher’s colleges.
I don’t think you’d know a hero if one bit you where the sun don’t shine, honey. I do believe that if parents have concluded that their school system is inadequate for the needs of their children and violating their kids’ civil rights (by cramming social engineering claptrap down their throats) then, yes, any homeschooling parent producing a responsble, law-abiding kid should be supported not villified as is now occuring.
There, I fixed it for ya. You do know that homeschooling parents follow a curriculum just as ordinary teachers do, right? There are even online schools run by the public school system that oversee this. Get a clue.
Sterotype much? Just because “Christian fundamentalists” you know don’t want their kids exposed to evolution doesn’t meant they’re not getting a quality education. Have you ever visited these families to see what is actually being taught? Or are you just prejudging? Nah, couldn’t be that.
I’m sure you know that people aren’t just homeschooling on religious grounds. I think it’s the fact that schools have babysitting stations where teachers pretty much have kids fill out worksheets, watch “educational videos” but really don’t interact with their students. I should know since I subbed for such teachers. I’ve also taught in Catholic schools who, dear God, taught religion! Can you imagine? Students were also drilled in grammar, civics, language, and math… the things I don’t even see public school teachers do anymore. Just like there are bad teachers there are also bad homeschoolers.
You’d be surprised what parents can pick up given a good lesson plan and curriculum materials. Stop overgeneralizing. Are you a teacher? I think not. I’ve done the research (since I either will homeschool or put my kid in a Catholic school if possible). It’s nice to know that you can form an opinion on homeschooling based on 2 “Christian fundamentalist families” you know.
You really have no room to talk either, Snausage. What Gabe had to say about Economics had its good points and its bad points. Personally, I don’t believe a falling dollar is all that good for my buying power but that’s neither here nor there in this discussion.
Snausage, are you a teacher or have visited a classroom lately? Have you been a substitute teacher and seen the way that students behave? There are no boundaries because anything goes in public schools when the emphasis on personal responsibility and raising a kid to be a functional adult instead of a dysfunctional illiterate go out the window. Have you any idea how teachers’ unions and their prima dona teachers treat subs? Or how subs get the blame because either a) schools can’t find qualified teachers to supervise the nursery b) don’t want to hire qualified teachers who are right now trying to get their foot in the door, or c) paying less for teachers so that they can build their fancy smancy new school or stadium?
You really do need to see how the other half lives before you judge anybody, especially Gabe.
RE: State specified hoops (surely lobbied by teacher unions to protect their “profession” and the educational credential establishment.
At my last assignment in Georgia, one of my fellow officers wanted to become a teacher in the school system where his family was currently living and where he was going to retire. Thankfully, he had looked into the “profession” far enough in advance of his retirement date and learned of the many state specified formal educational hoops he had to jump through to get certified.
What he had to go through was particularly amusing in that this prospectively retiring Lt. Colonel was a graduate of West Point, already had completed an advanced degree and had served a full tour as a Mathematics instructor at, you guessed it, West Point.
At about the same time a proposal was made and implemented to streamline and shorten credentialing so retiring and discharged veterans, already with college degrees, could enter the teaching field (as the services were drastically reducing their manpower post-Desert Storm in the early 90s). Also, one of the intentions was to get more male teachers in schools. However, I learned that many exceptionally qualified military officers would get stonewalled by school systems after they got credentialed under the streamlined criteria. What they believed the bottom line was this: throw out a bone to set up the program, but don’t really hiring anyone so as to protect current (union) teachers and the teacher education/credentialling bureacracies at colleges and universities.
Oregon had a rule (and maybe still does), that any home schooled child had to take a yearly test to show that he advanced 1 year. If not that child would have to go to an acredited school. (public or private). Ironically the kids in the public schools however did not have to show 1 years growth. Any wonder why many of us have no faith in public school systems.
Sausage – I know you have already been called out on this, but I just cannot seem to ignore it.
You definitely seem to be forming your opinion of all homeschooling families on these 2 families. If I’m wrong, please let me know.
Surely you are smart enough to know that 2 sample families do not represent an entire population of homeschoolers. Or, for that matter, that such a small sample size would not pass in any statistical analysis.
I actually had several friends in college who had been homeschooled and they all did exceedingly well in classes. Plus, not a one of them had the social problems everyone assumes that homeschooling causes. In fact, I would say they were better equipped to engage in thoughtful discussions with faculty members and other adults. And these fine people were not “crazy fundamentalists,” in fact, a few didn’t even come from Christian families.
On the other hand, teachers are quite often referred to as heroes. And I’m sure everyone here has had an encounter with a subpar (to put it politely) teacher.
I don’t know what percentage of homeschooling parents have alternative motives or are unfit, but I would guess it is smaller than the percentage of certified teachers who are unqualified and generally useless. And yet the general population gives the school system the benefit of the doubt and looks at homeschoolers as some sort of circus freaks.
What you say is so true of what’s going on in public education. A lot of these “hoops” were developed way before No Child Left Behind hit the scene. Educational professionals know how to protect their own and perpetuate their racket.
What your officer friend went through is true of a particularly charming phenemenon known as the “alternative certification program” or Troops To Schools program (I think that’s the name). These programs were set up to attract talented professionals (not only military officers). What’s occured is that such programs are only so much window floss.
I was under the impression in 2000 by the DOE that there was need for teachers in all specialties. I was later to find out that you have no control over:
1. Liberal, backstabbing, cooperative teachers who use student teaching interns as “babysitters” so that they can finish their Ph.D’s or Master’s degrees
2. Federal agencies like the DOE don’t always know what the “high need” areas are in education
3. When applying for full time teaching positions, school districts will consider your teaching internship as experience but not the time you put in (multiple years) as a substitute teacher
4. School districts are reluctant to hire from their “sub pool” so they usually hire an outsider or an insider who’s kissed enough butt
5. If you’re a military spouse or have a blemish on your resume (such as being fired from a job because an employer found out your husband was in the military), you meet the brick wall called: No Thank You.
6. If you’re an MAT (Master of Arts in Teaching, an alternative certification program that combines master’s work with the student teaching component)recipient, you’re automatically handicapped. School districts will 9/10 times hire someone they can pay less (a Bachelor’s recipient) rather than someone they will have to give a higher pay grade (their rules not mine) to.
There are many, many military spouses who are teachers (some have made it) but most met that brick wall and decided to go in another direction (like myself). If you don’t fit the public education construct or tow the Teacher Union line, forget about teaching. Schools will also throw that bone out there that subbing gets your foot in the door (or exposed) but it’s a lie plus it can’t pay your bills unless you’re married or have another job. It’s pathetic that schools think that subs should get on average $75 per diem to, as one sub I knew put it, “play at a hobby.” You can literally sub for years “hoping” you get a job unless you just move.
I would say to many people, don’t substitute teach, and do your research before entering into any kind of alternative certification program like the MAT. What I’ve found is that, since schools are tightening their budgets and are required by state mandates to pay higher for Master’s recipients that they won’t hire people like me.
I will always love Social Studies/History and perhaps, someday, I will teach it (maybe more at the private level), but teaching’s still a job and if it doesn’t pay my bills, it’s then just a hobby. I’m now working making twice what I’d earn as a substitute teacher. Sad, isn’t it?
So? What’s your point? That they’re not entitled to believe what they believe?
Here’s a newsflash for you, sausage. If schools weren’t the liberal hellholes they typically are – places extremely hostile to anything even remotely resembling religion (specifically Christianity) – then perhaps parents wouldn’t have so much of a problem putting their children in public schools.
But no. Instead, they are taught the joys of sexual promiscuity (sometimes in kindergarten). Christmas is banned as something “offensive”. Kids are suspended for selling candy. History is inaccurate or biased. Math is “fuzzy”. English is some mish-mash crap called “language arts”. Intelligent design is scoffed at while evolution is preached like gospel.
Devoutly religious kids are mocked and rideculed – including one of my friends, who couldn’t take an advance course because the teacher was so hostile to her brother and their Catholicism she wouldn’t be able to learn in his classroom.
In a public school, my child couldn’t take his/her asthma medication without a litany of permission forms and/or letters. My nephew suffers from migranes and often has to miss school because he can’t take the mediciation he needs in time to stop the migrane from becoming a full-blown nightmare (because he has to see about six people every time he wants a dose). Kids are suspended for giving Midol to a friend. But if my daughter wanted birth control pills or my son condoms, they’d get them. Without my knowledge. If my daughter wanted an abortion, schools would get her that access. Again without my knowledge.
While these situations don’t all happen at every public school, things like this happen at many. It’s alarmingly clear to many people that schools are the “church” of liberal secularism.
And people don’t want to buy what’s being preached in the hallowed halls of the local elementary school.
So what’s it to you if your friends decide they want their children to be brought up in their faith? Other than the fact you disagree with it and everyone must conform to your worldview?
Well said EQ!
Thank you for your very well-said comments regarding education. People like Snausage think that public education should also mean social experimentation. Public education didn’t really become the form it is now until the later 19th/early 20th centuries. People worried where to put immigrant kids during the day so that they wouldn’t get up to any trouble so that’s how public education came about.
Not only are some of the public school kids just plain felonies waiting to happen (or already have in the area I live in) but their teachers, you know, the “saints” or “heroes” who give out worksheets or show “educational videos” in lieu of actual lesson plans or discussion, would openly be rude to me or mock me if they found out I was a military spouse or a, shocker…voted for Pres. Bush. This is the kind of atmosphere I worked in in Colorado. New York was equally abysmal, especially given that I had a cooperating teacher who sabotaged my lesson plans when I interned from him. He was a liberal and made my life miserable when I disagreed that we shouldn’t be teaching 8th graders to make Buddhist monk sand paintings instead of learning the actual topic: US History (I wish I were joking). /sigh Yes, liberal educators are so “tolerant” of dissent and those who disagree with them.
I think a lot of what you bring up, Englishqueen, is the school districts’ fear of lawsuits. They’re not scared of the anger of parents whose kids they give birth control/condoms to or abortion advice, but man, they’re scared of lawsuits. I’ll add to it… along with a student’s grades/profile you get their food allergies. Now it’s good to know who not to give peanuts to but when you’re lectured how to do it so as to not get sued, it gets old.
I would also see middle school students regularly pawing each other and kissing which is highly inappropriate. In some elementary/middle schools kids can’t give each other hugs, but if you deprive them of their “sexual urges” just watch out. My question is: who are the adults in these schools?
I ask this question because I’ve seen adults just laugh off kids’”early sexual behavior” as something they’ll need to know, or give succor to gay teens or transgendered/gender confused kids at the expense of the rest of the school population. This kind of double standard made my skin crawl… this is why people homeschool.
I am asking the below as an Army military veteran (24 years) and also as a single/never married person:
Has anyone ever gone to their local public school or superindent’s/administraive offices and asked for a written specific list – broken down by subject – of learning objectives for a certain grade and/or given the opportunity to review (much less comment on) them? If anyone asked, were they produced for review? Did they even exist?
First, has any parent here ever produced a written list of learning objectives and tasks that they want their child/children to learn (i.e a Program of Instruction) so that stuff not covered in school or needing correction is identified, taught and learned.?
Insert “family Program of Instruction”
Of course the liberals do not want us to home school our kids because then they [liberals] won’t be able to indoctrinate them with liberalism!!!
There is that too, smellycat.
Monte Hall, I have another question. Has anyone gone to the school and asked to see the course work of their childs science and math teachers. I will bet 9 out of 10 times you will not see a math course or a science course.
Englishqueen, you beat me to “So what?”
Boomer had it when he used the term “Social Engineers”.
I found it quite odd timing that on the same day that the CA Appellate Court agreed to review this decision, the New York Times had an article on Muslim families in California who home school their kids (hattip: World Net Daily).
Is the case reconsideration just another opportunity to accommodate Islam?
I find this very encouraging. I haven’t seen the courts move this fast since Daniel Ellsberg wanted to publish “The Pentagon Papers.”
Considering your disdain for all things Christian, I highly doubt you know these families well enough to know all of the reasons they chose to home school. If evolution was the only problem, schools give families the ability to opt out of junk science classes. I personally know of dozens of home schooling parents and the least of their concerns was evolution. Leave it to you to know two Christian families without “something between their ears” saving their kids from the evils of evolution.
As Christians, my wife and I welcomed the idea of exposing our kids to the problems of evolution and let them decide to opt out – which they did (because they have something between their ears). Not one time did we ever tell them learning anything would send then to “burn in eternal hell fire”.
You need
newfriends.HOMESCHOOLING-YOU CAN’t do that!
That’s what I heard 25 years ago while I was pregnant with my child.
I had read the book by the Moores-said I could – and did it!
To give courage to those who are considering home-schooling-my child was accepted by one of the Academies.
People should be allowed to homeschool their kids anytime, anywhere, on thier own terms. IMHO the only time the state should get involved is standardized tests.
If the kids can’t pass a high-school equivalency exam then its all on the parents and the kids don’t get a diploma from the state. If they ace it, then good for them (and the parents) and the state should recognize this and the home-school degree should be no different than a govt. school degree.
We home school our four children, ages 8 – 12. If we assume for a minute that there is, somewhere out there, a “bad” home school parent, then I have a couple of questions:
1) Will government credentials for home school parents eliminate all “bad” home school parents?
And if not, then
2) Should we logically assume that there are no “bad” teachers in government schools so that if all kids were forced into government schools they’d all be protected from “bad” parents?
I’m just asking….
Hey Hey Hey Sausage you went off the deep end. Christians don’t go to an everlasting hell for learning about evolution. What sends folks to hell is the ultimate rejection as Jesus Christ as your Saviour and repenting of your sins. We are exposed to evolution because schools are not diverse in teaching intelligent design. Seems that the more we get away from God the more problems our schools are having. By the way Jesus said in the last generation many of His followers would be lukewarm so you really have not witnissed any zealous Christians. One more point Muslims now are doing homeschooling too,, does that upset you as well?
garyt:
So does that mean Jews are going to hell? What about atheists? Agnostics? Deists? Unitarians?
What about folks like Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin? Both of whom were argueably Deists (or possibly a Unitarian in Jefferson’s case) and questioned the divinity of Jesus? Do you have to believe Jesus was the Son of God? Or is it OK to just think he was a great moral teacher?
Can you be an atheist that believes Jesus to be on par with thinkers like Socrates? What if you try your best to follow the morals and principles of Jesus yet reject the notion that there is a supreme being?
OK, /threadjack mode off, we now return you to our regularly scheduled program.
30pcs,
(Sorry for taking so long to respond!)
Several families from our church took the children temporarily. After swearing up and down that they would change, the parents were allowed to get the children back, but under the very watchful eye of DHS. The families who had kept their children continued to serve as advocates for the children.
Fortunately this case ended up being a shining example of the system working well, although I will say that the advocacy that my church provided helped a great deal. Unfortunately, the parents repeatedly failed to meet goals set by the court and eventually the children were removed permanently and placed in permanent foster care. Thanks to a lot of help, they are all thriving.
What broke our hearts about this situation was that the oldest child, who was 12, tested at a second-grade reading and math level. Her brother, who was 10, didn’t do any better. They had been neglected by their parents, who had used them as free babysitters. We figured out that something was wrong when we offered to help them with homeschooling (which involved looking at the curriculum that they were using and getting their kids involved in homeschooling networks) and the parents flatly refused. They knew their flimsy cover was about to be blown.
There is an old saying, “unusual cases make bad law.” This family was certainly, by far, the exception for homeschooling families. Overall, homeschooling is a great option for parents who cannot afford private school. And here in OK City, we have a large network of homeschool programs that provides music, laboratory science, intramural sports, and other activities, in partnership with private schools and churches.
As I wrote earlier, it is not in anyone’s best interest for courts to overreact and take down the whole homeschooling system just because a handful of families abuse it. I hope that the California decision is reversed — the sooner the better.
Zero Angel yes you are right when the only ones who go to heaven are those who have repented of their sins to Jesus Christ. He alone paid the price or all of our sins. All our good works are but filthy rags. Jesus Himself said There is no one good and He alone has paid our price to obtain heave. Jesus also said in Mathew that only a few make it to heaven and most are lost. I did not write the bible but only saying what Christ said. He also said in John 14 v6 that He is the only way to Heaven. In John 3 verse three He told a Jewish priest Nicodemus that He had to be born again to reach heaven. Sorry if these remarks offend anyone thats what He said. Some would probably say Jesus was against diversity and guilty of heat speech if He said those things again here. I agree with you there are many great people who have done great things but according to Jesus they are still lost if they have not repented.
garyt:
Doesn’t that seem a bit divisive? Please, I want to be clear here: do you think that Thomas Jefferson went to hell?
Not sure about Thomas Jefferson because only God knows if Jefferson acknowledged his sins or not. This is not fo me to say but Jesus did say He came to divide. He said broher would be against sister, father against son, etc depending on who has repented.