An indictment against John Murtha
In the wake of the dismissal of charges against Lance Cpl. Stephen Tatum, Gary at Let Freedom Ring makes the case for indicting John Murtha. An excerpt:
Let’s highlight that conflict between rep. Murtha and the Marine Corps spokesman because it highlights extremely important information.
If Gen. Hagee did indeed brief Rep. Murtha on May 24, 2006, that means that Rep. Murtha couldn’t make these accusations based on irrefutable facts; at least he couldn’t do that on May 17, 2006.
That brings us to our first ‘counts’ against Rep. Murtha: Violating the Haditha Marines’ constitutional protection of (a) being presumed innocent until provent guilty beyond a reasonable doubt and (b) violating their due process rights.
Another accusation Rep. Murtha made was that the officers in charge of the 3/1 Marines covered up their findings of what happened on November 19, 2005 in the city of Haditha. That’s absurd because we know that Captain Jeffrey Dinsmore put together a comprehensive PowerPoint presentation, which was sent up the chain of command. That isn’t speculation; that’s his sworn testimony. The fact that the people further up the chain of command said that there isn’t anything to investigate says it all.
Rep. Murtha told ABCNews’ Charlie Gibson that he knew there was a cover-up “someplace.” As I’ve said before, if you think something is true but can’t prove it, then you should say that “I believe that there is a coverup someplace.” You don’t say that you know there’s a coverup.
That’s the second count in the indictment. Rep. Murtha made false accusations against the Haditha Marines. What’s worse is that he made those accusations without verifiable proof of wrongdoing. Knowingly filing false charges against someone is a crime.
The third count in the indictment is possibly the weightiest of charges. Murtha’s connections within the Pentagon are deep. He’s built a mini-empire by acting as a ‘recruiter’ for companies in the military industrial complex. When they want a new hardware, Rep. Murtha gets it for them. As a result, they paid particularly close attention when Rep. Murtha made an accusation against the Haditha Marines.
With his clout, Rep. Murtha did everything except play the role of judge, jury and executioner. In civilian court, he would’ve been accused of poisoning the jury pool, which is another violation of the Haditha Marines’ due process rights.
Murtha indicts himself every time he opens his mouth.
Want to do something? Boot Murtha.
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Will anyone be able to put legal teeth behind these charges? That’d help the ‘boot Murtha’ cause.
But, people just keep putting this clown back in office time, after time, after time. What does that say about the politics and/or the people of Murtha’s district?
He’s such a Murtha Firker.
I agree, but isn’t that what we are about to do with the current crop of presidential
canidatesscum?The ‘Honorable’ John Murtha is already the defendant in a civil suit being brought by one of the Haditha Marines. Murtha’s original screed was captured in his Campaign Office, not the House floor. Thus, his comments are not subject to Congressional Privilege.
Having said that, there is no doubt John Murtha is a laughing stock outside of Congress and probably the only Ex-Marine in existence. No Marine I know would walk on the same side of the street nor willingly share a foxhole with John Murtha.
Murtha is pathetic. If you ever visit Johnstown, PA, the core of his constituency, you’ll see a once thriving industrial center now in the grasp of federal entitlement and sloth courtesy of Captain Anti-American Crusader Jack O Murthanator. He is, without question, the walking, talking embodiment of what hemorrhoids would look like if they had a mind of their own.
:0
I served with William T. Russell in Germany and deployed to Kosovo with him as members of the “Big Red One.”
He is trying to unseat Murtha. He is a good and honorable person,which means he will probably be rejected for being what we need in politics.
He also deployed to Iraq as an Infantry Office with the 1st ID, he asked to go on a mission with a Marine artillery battery during the Battle of Fallujah. He is proud to say that the crew of a howitzer let him pull tail(fire the howitzer) in battle. As an ex-Army redleg I can understand his pride in participating in that heroic battle the Marines were a major part of, but a little jealous that an Infantry officer got to come back with bragging rights about being a battle tested Redleg.
Let’s keep it real. I don’t recall Murtha “filing” any charges. And Meatpie, the people of Johnstown did it to themselves.
As a former marine, I despise Murtha . However, he and the rest of the political class couldn’t do what they do without us. WE, the people allow it , rollover for it , enable it, and vote for it. What are we going to do about it?
I saw the headline in my RSS reader.
All I can say Michelle is:
“Don’t tease me sis Don’t tease me!”
Isn’t there a lawsuit underway against Murtha for violating the rights of the Marines? Or a slander case? I rmemeber something about Murtha hiding behind the immunity clauses for speaking on the floor.
My memory fails and I’m not motivated enough to google on the keyword “Slimebag”.
#8…Johnstown’s populace may have contributed to the industrial downfall, but no one other than Murtha was responsible for inserting the government feeding tube and effectively placing the entire area on life support.
I’m sure Murtha will use the tried and test Democratic mantra of “I was misquoted and my comments were taken out of context.”
It hurts my ears every time I hear that.
The last thing I heard about that was most of the “hardware” and “services” he procured was neither asked for or wanted by the DoD, but once he got it earmarked the money had to come out of the budget. That’s money that could go to better equipment that the military actually needs.
The treacherous Mr. John Abscam Murtha lied about the actions of our beloved US Marines. Then he slandered their chain of command. Then he used his “fat cat” status in the military industrial complex to garner support for his false accusations.
Mr. Murtha, you are a corrupt liar and are unfit to enter the hallowed halls of our Republic. Resign immediately.
#10- uh huh, and who voted him in and keeps voting him in by landslides?Murtha didn’t invade and take over Johnstown and the rest of that district.
Other than Michelle and a few other bloggers, this will probably never be mentioned anywhere it would count. Congress will not eat their own. As evidenced by the fact that you can take bribes, stick them in your freezer, get caught by the feds and still retain your seat as well as any committee seats. Term limits are the only fix for this.
everyone in elected office needs to be voted out NOW… With a very few exceptions.These idiots get in office and never leave, and we the people allow it to happen.
It’s unnerving that a member of our government - a lawmaker - could do something like this just to score a perceived political advantage for the Democrats.
What more are the people in his district waiting for before they’ll take action and vote this man out of office?
#13…agreed. The dependency of the Johnstowner’s on Murtha is the same as that of an addict and the pusher or the John and the Pimp.
MacDaddy Murtha, Pimping for your future!
Murtha’s next campaign slogan.
Murtha cannot be given a pass on the crime of treason. Murtha spoke against our military whose lives were on the line to protect his sorry butt.
IN: UNC & DAVIDSON
OUT: All Dems on 5/5
They need to burn him like he did the Marines. Only difference is he’ll get what he deserves. The facts are there.
Awesome! I hope it happens.
Sorry to be an adversary here, but I will do that. And I also detest John Murtha. He’s a fat cat blow-hard - Marine Reserve service or not.
1) The “presumption of innocence” doctrine only attaches within the actual Court that is trying any given case. It does not attach to public opinion or to the press, which ran wild with Murtha’s bombast.
2) In fact, the Marines have received their Constiutional rights to due process, and the Court charged with that guarantee has found fit to dismiss charges against all but one remaining enlisted man. The question as to whether these charges should have been brought in the first place is another question altogether.
3) Murtha filed no charges against anyone. Filing of charges is done within the Court of record. He did use the press as a bully pulpit to do everything he could to undermine the Republican side of the aisle and undermine the prosecution of this war. It was all for political drama and had nothing to do with what really happened at Haditha.
4) All things considered, I don’t see any criminal charges against Murtha. He might be open to a tort action if the Marines he slandered can prove actual damages. Slander is a tough case to prove because you have to be able to show there was malice aforethought. Murtha can say he was speaking with only the best interests of the country at heart. And many will believe him.
5) The best thing for all of us would be for the voters of Pennsylvania to toss this guy overboard at the next election. We shall see.
You need to get your case against Murtha right if you want it to go anywhere. Obvious baloney puts the focus on you instead of him. For example:
Are you saying it is illegal for a private person or a government official to offer an opinion before an official trial verdict? How many politicians have said that OJ was guilty, or Clinton or Bush, or the prisoners at Gitmo?
John Murtha: Traitor
Let me be the first to say that I loathe John Murtha. ABSCAM is enough that he should have been a jail a long time ago. His contracting scams are as corrupt as they come.
BUT YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING BY PLAYING CHICKEN WITH THIS “19 NOV” THING!!!
There is a LOT of UGLY invidence out there that may not be admisible in a court but will look horrible to the average American against 3/1. In time, FOIA will let it all come out, but that will take years. Forcing Murtha on the specific “19 Nov” incident will make the raw documents come out at lightening speed. Raw invidence that includes headshots of children and initial interviews where Marines seem callous.
It will undermine the nobel cause of OIF. BUT IT’LL MAKE YOU FEEL SO GOOD THAT YOU TOOK ON MURTHA.
I’ll be back in Iraq less the 1 year from now with a Grunt Bn. The news stories that will be associated with this raw evidence will cause the “over-investigation” reaction from the chain-of-command to even the most minor incident.
So what’s more important to you? OIF or attempting to score a “19 Nov” point on John Murtha. Believe me, you might not like it, but that is the choice.
TomK59, I would agree with you to the extent that yes, we the voters are responsible for who we elect to represent us. With that said, however, in any election there is a block of people that will vote for “their” candidate no matter who wrong or despicable their actions are.
I can attest to that living here in California with Feinstein and Boxer. I would think I am safe to say(and yes, read that to mean OPINION) that most of us here in the Central Valley have never or will never vote for either of them because of their extremely liberal views on many issues. However, because of the large voting block of blind liberals from the bay area and LA, our voice gets drowned out.
It seems that the man who is going to run against Murtha in the next election is much more honorable that he; I would hope that some of the people who have their “Murtha blinders” on would see that.
All respect, branden, but the people you speak of are also citizens and voters like us, right? We can make all the excuses we want, but it is our votes, lack of votes, and general apathy between elections that got us here. They couldn’t have done it without us.
Until enough of us make enough noise and take our obligations and duties as citizens seriously, it’ll get worse.
There certainly appears to be enough to convince voters to give Murtha a farewell.
Unfortunately for the case, lgm is right: if we want a case against Murtha to go anywhere, it’s going to have to be really solid and very precise.
#24 HDFOB said:
To reiterate from yesterday,
1. You (HDFOB) know that something criminal happened on 19 Nov, up to the Batt. level.
2. You (HDFOB) say that the only reason these Marines have been getting exonerated is because Haditha residents can’t come to the US to testify.
3. You (HDFOB) say that by pursuing any public case against Murtha, the photos from the investigation will be released sooner than normal FOIA time lines, and this will sway liberals to end ‘Operation Iraqi Freedom’ immediately, and therefore, let down our guard in the overall War on Terror.
4. And in turn, this will make your upcoming Iraqi tour (your 2nd?) more difficult.
I believe this is your arguement?
Shame on Murtha and shame on the people who keep him in office.
Murtha needs to be held accountable for what he has done to these Marines. Hit him in the pocketbook…money is what’s important to this ex-Marine. Loyalty and support of our military certainly isn’t. He is a disgrace as an ex-Marine; a disgrace as a member of Congress; and a disgrace as a human being.
As much as I dislike Rep. Murtha, he might be off the hook legally speaking. My recollection of the Constitutional protection of legislators is pretty broad. I can’t find my copy of the Constitution to check.
Congress, which would have the power to discipline him, seems happy to keep him–and he keeps getting re-elected, which is good enough for that body for Democrats.
To answer BrianNY #28,
Almost.
On pt 2: the inability to put first hand witnesses in a court hurts the legal case. The witnesses are not the only pieces of damning evidence, however first hand testimony is important in court cases. But I’m not a lawyer.
On pt 3: I don’t give a damn what liberals think! We could go the next 6 months without a single military or civilian death in Iraq and most liberals would still say OIF was a failure.
It does matter what middle America thinks. The mushy center that only reads headlines and rarely goes in-depth. I do not think that the raw evidence that comes out in relation to “19 Nov” will be put in it’s proper context. The proper context being an isolated, rare, but tragic event. Worse, because it will be done when taking on a OIF critic, it will lend credibility to his views.
The mushy middle’s commitment to this war may sag again, as it it did in 2006. I can’t bear to see that.
Sad but true, military higher ups read public opinion and react to it. The reaction to these documents will cause many of us to have to tiptoe too much.
1. We should welcome all the evidence, concerning this case. All we need years down the road is more tin hat Nov 19 truthers. It will tarnish the image of the Marine Corps, by suggesting, we tried to execute a cover up. Besides, if the Officers in charge of the investigation are dismissing the charges, then in the eyes of the law the Marines are innocent. As far as public opinion, I believe the USMJ works as good as any justice system can. If these Marines displayed battlefield negligence, they would be in the brig. It won’t be like Abu Graib, where it undermines OIF.
Honor, Courage, Commitment
They need to call him back on active duty and charge him with this: Article 133—Conduct unbecoming an officer and gentleman
And he knows it.
Semper Fi’
Not if all the Marines are found innocent. Letting out all the evidence in this case will only make us stronger, because it shows, that the Marines are not trying to hide anything. We don’t want to fan the flames for winter soldiers II.
Once a Marine always a Marine.
Again article 133–and he knows it.
Devotion to the Corps and my fellow Marines….
1. Obey the law
2. Lead by example
3 Respect themselves and others
4 Maintain a high standard of integrity
5 support and defend the constitution
6. Uphold special trust and confidence
7 Place faith and Honor above all else
8 Honor fellow Marines, the Corps, country and family
Taken from memory, from NAVMC 1/97
/s/
José
lgm, what he did was not a criminal offense in the legal term, but, I’ll bet you it is either slander or libel depending on whether it is written or spoken. For that I hope they sue him for enough that he qualifies for food stamps and the low rent apartment next to yours.
I strongly agree with Jose. When you’re in the right, don’t be afraid to stand up and open your mouth.HDFOB, while I appreciate your concerns, allow me to give some advise as a former marine grunt/ force recon who has seen action. Don’t worry about opinions or other things outside of your control. When you are back in the field,worry about nothingbut your job.
That is a discipline that kept me and my guys alive more than once.
josetheguerilla #32. Murtha is the only EX-Marine I have ever heard of, as he is no-longer fit to claim to be a Marine.
lgm, I half agree with you…again. I don’t think Murtha violated anyone’s Constitutional rights. The justice system still afforded the accused the presumption of innocence.
However, Murtha didn’t merely offer his opinion. He definitively stated, as fact, on national television that they went on a killing spree.
Interestingly, when being sued for defamation, the defendant (Murtha in this case) will be burdened with proving that his definitive statements are true. This will obviously be more difficult for him if the evidence isn’t even strong enough for many of them to be tried. Even if a few of them are found guilty of negligence, etc, it won’t help Murtha prove a killing spree occurred.
I think Gary’s case against Murtha is extremely weak and shouldn’t to be pursued (although I’m not convinced that anyone is really serious about it).
HDFOB’s points are well taken. Any action against Murtha will force his attorney to use a “look at these tragic pictures” defense (these tactics work well with juries regardless of the facts of a case). This might be more damaging to the reputation of the accused Marines even if they win a defamation lawsuit.
Constitutional Amendment XIV, Section 3: “No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may be a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.”
As a WWII Gold Star sis, I’m sick of the “blame America first” crowd.
Now, what if…a young Marine, hesitated while in combat, because he remembered what Murtha said about Haditha? He felt strongly that he “might” be in danger, but didn’t pull the trigger for fear of making a mistake that would cost him his career as a Marine. As a result, not only he, but fellow Marines were killed because of his hesitancy.
Do the relatives of the Marines have a legal cause of action against Murtha?
Before you answer, remember, ALL those relatives of murder/suicide perpetrators who sued record companies, because they believed the lyrics in the songs caused their offspring to commit the crimes.
Double standard, or does it make a difference that the offender here is elected U.S. royalty?
Thank you Michelle, I have been watching this from the beginning when this maddness began. God bless these Marines. I pray Murtha is punished for what he did.
That’s what MM wrote about Murtha. Isn’t that as bad a Murtha? No charges have been filed against him either.
On March 29th, 2008 at 4:55 pm, lgm said:
Guilty.
That’s what MM wrote about Murtha. Isn’t that as bad a Murtha? No charges have been filed against him either.
And THAT is what is wrong with this country… Murtha should have been charged long ago.
That will be the day when the democrats censor one of their own, especially Murtha. I’m still waiting for the trial of Rep. Jefferson. Best you can hope for, is a censor, not a trial. And, they won’t do that. You know, and I know, the democrats cover each other, no matter how bad it gets. An example of Pelosi and her “ethics” Congress.
graysonret, there is hope. He may not get the criminal charges he Soooo deserves, but there is also civil court…
and slander IS slander..
In eyes of most Marines I think this statement would be the case. Legally however, he carries on his person, a government issued card that says at the top “Armed Forces Of The United States”. This card is pink and identifies him as a United States Marine retiree. It states his last rank and SSN. At the bottom it says “Geneva conventions identification card.” The moral majority can say he’s not a Marine all they want, however the bottom line is he is a retired Marine Officer with all the benefits that come with it. In my opinion he should not rate this honor, and it should be taken away.
Point well taken.
You should add Lee Harvey Oswald and Charles Witman to that list of yours.
the guerilla
TomK 59, I do agree with you in the respect that we as conservatives(and any voter for that matter) has a responsibility to vote in order to change to status quo that we are unhappy with. This was evident in California with the last election and our dismal voting stats for eligible voters. IT is frustrating when we have people in other countries dodging roadside bombs and sniper bullets to do what some pathetically take for granted.
With that said, however, there is a block of voters that will always vote for “their man” or vote against the person they hate just for the sake of sticking to him. Just for the sake of arguement, lets say we found out conclusive proof that Hussein had the WMD’s and in addition, had proof that he intended to launch an attack on the US, but the invasion of Iraq stopped it. Do you think that the Code Pink idiots and the other fringe group psychos would say, “oops we were wrong?”
I’m not justifying those who are apathetic when it comes to voting. The point I was trying to make, is that there are those who comprise a large block of the vote who don’t care what Murtha did and would still vote for him if he serves their purpose, and that would be unfortunate if it tipped the balance. But because in this country we respect everyone’s vote, it is a reality.
jose #44 I was not talking legalities and made no mention of a list. I expressed an opinion that Murtha no longer deserves any respect from the Marines–he is an EX-Marine, which places him exactly where he belongs–in the dung heap of history. Your #rs 1-8 in quote#32 say it all and need not my reiteration. I also never described myself as part of the
so that part of your reply is, well, unwelcome and quite simply not understood in it’s context to what I said. If I misunderstood your intent then I will stand corrected. My point (in my opinion) is that Murtha has failed the test of
–he is no longer faithful and is now persona non grata. Respectfully to you.
He gets respect every time he goes on base and flashes his Marine issued government ID card. I know you were not talking legalities. The point I’m trying to make to you is that a censure or an official reprimand would put him in the real dung heap of history. Marines value “Marine history”. When I said moral majority, I’m trying to show you that Ex-Marine is not going far enough. Looking at it from a “no longer deserves any respect” doesn’t cut the mustard, because Marines will do what they are ordered. This means rendering customs and courtesies to retired Marines. He still has that blue DOD sticker on his car that requires a right hand salute. You see, this is why it should be looked at from a legal, punitive perspective. He rates it.
More Clarification
A punitive mark or a censure would be much more serious than a stigma of Ex-Marine, because it would make “Marine history”. He would be a trivia question in Boot camp. It would go something like this: Who was the only Marine Officer(ret) censured by congress or sued by an active duty Marine”. Believe or not, this would be detrimental to any Ex-Marine. It would be nice to just fade away, not be remembered for dishonor against fellow Marines.
One shot, one kill
Thank you for your response.
/s/
José
“Failed the test” in this context, means to me that he failed a test of being a Marine or Marine like. I just look at it from a legal perspective, because in my opinion he broke the law. I’m not a lawyer; it’s just my opinion.
Don’t forget to square away that H harness
/s/
José
jose#47 I won’t argue your fine-hairs perspective but will stick to the “no-respect” he deserves. Somewhere in this discussion I think we both agree he is despicable and only mars the rep of the Corps. In practice, punitive marks, censure etc are what most ALL of us would like to see–I (again) was simply stating my opinion on the scumbag desecrater of Semper Fi. He is in my opinion an EX Marine with or without actual sanctions (I am not alone, btw). Humbly and with Gods respects to you.
Murtha, how does it feel to be an EX Marine?
We (Marines) don’t like you Murtha.
Agreed. But will history reflect this?
I don’t know if he was an officer or not, but I do know, if he was, you salute the “rank”, not the “person”. In my book, he would be rated an “ex-Marine”, but the rank still deserves its respect.
True.
If he were found guilty of libel, that would be a tough cookie to swollow.
First to fight
the guerilla
I’m no Marine, but when I worked at Landstuhl as an Army liaison and a civilian(former Marine) was medevaced from down range, the Marine liaisons took care of him as if he were still an active duty Marine.
When I hear Marines say Murtha is an ex Marine, I sure ain’t gonna argue with a “Devil Dog”!
Hoorah, Semper Fi Marines
Murtha is a national disgrace.
To be called an “ex-marine” is about as low as you can get…having your comrades, turn their backs on you. But, Murtha doesn’t care. He’s in the Congress (power motivated) and has a voice, and money…which shows how low he has become. Ah, for the days when they used to strip your buttons off, break your sword, and turn you out….
Branden, I agree that the dems will vote Satan in ‘08 if he was their candidate. It’s another of the challenges we face. Not winning them over- that will never happen. Defeating them.
One in office, one in jail.
Murtha(D) = pass. Notice the (D)?
TomK59, I agree, and you are right; as tough as it might be, we still have to be vigilant and get to the polls.
Didn’t the Bush Administration (Attorney General) write a brief to be sent to help Murtha defend himself…saying he “Was protected becasue his political speech extends beyond the floor of the house”??
Just shows the lengths, Jorge Bush will go to help liberals but on the ame hand work to destroy Conservative ideology and the Republican Party in general.
The culture of treason is wide-spread. The black church audience of J. Wright, the Rosie O’Donnell audience, the Hollywood mob, the mainstream press, and the mindless, airhead voters of the blue states illustrate part of the problem. These are alien creatures with no special fondness, and no feeling of loyalty, for this nation. Benedict Murtha plays to this crowd. Sometimes the hope of re-establishing decency looks hopeless.