The ACLU assembles a terrorist legal defense force of extraordinary magnitude
[Guest post by See-Dubya]
I started following the case of the Gitmo lawyers way back here and here, and quite the epic it is. Well, the government has raised the number of detainees it will seek the death penalty against to seven, and today the WSJ reports that the ACLU has gotten into the game:
Backed by a slate of prominent legal figures, including former Attorney General Janet Reno and former Federal Bureau of Investigation Director William Webster, the ACLU has assembled a team of top civilian attorneys to supplement the military defense counsel assigned to represent Guantanamo’s “high-value detainees.” …
The effort significantly adds to the legal forces that over the past seven years have challenged the administration’s plan to run an offshore court that provides defendants fewer rights than civilian trials or courts-martial. The addition of the ACLU in particular, with its large financial resources, is a major shot in the arm for those who oppose the tribunal system.
This doesn’t really disturb me too much; obviously the detainees who are to be executed would get lawyers (even the Nuremberg criminals got lawyers) and justice wouldn’t really be served by giving them inexperienced counsel. So this “dream team” is fine and I’m glad to see the ACLU is contributing some money toward this. It beats some of the past shady funding sources for the Gitmo lawyers.
P.S. The ACLU “Major shot in the arm?” That’s probably not the most sensitive way to speak of a death penalty case.
P.P.S. It really bugs me that the Wall Street Journal made this big deal of how it was going “free” online and opening itself up to new media and got all this credit for it. It hasn’t. It’s now impossible for me to post a working link to a WSJ story; it just goes to the preview screen. You can still read the article for free, though; you just go to Google News and search for it. The Google News link will work.
P.P.P.S. It’s funny: One of Janet Reno’s most significant accomplishments as attorney general was capturing Elian Gonzales and sending him to Cuba. Now she’s trying to get dangerous terrorists out of Cuba and set them free…
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One huge difference between this situation and Nuremberg,Michelle…there was no danger of the Nazis on trial there being cut loose to go back to war against the Allies…the ACLU is attemtping to accomplish just that with this bunch of whackjob fanatics
Janet Reno and the ACLU suck. Wonder how that bunch would feel if one of their family members were killed by these murders? Probably would not feel not a great deal. When is CAIR getting involved?
L
I don’t question their patriotism, though. Because they have no patriotism TO question!
Janet Reno? Dream Team? Glad they have her and not the good guys.
Janet Reno must think Elian Gonzalez has been nabbed by the evil Bushitlerburtons and is being held at Guantanamo. Janet: he’s not there. He’s still back in Havana worshipping at the feet of Marxism’s oldest “great leader” – thanks to you.
…and let’s not forget Waco.
Aclu. I thought the A was for American. Should they be renamed TCLU? I would vote for that.
Who was she AG under lgm? Sorry, that would be a history question. Hint: His initials are Bill Clinton.
That’s like voting Shaq to a current all star roster isn’t it?
Armigerous’s point is very well taken. I’ve heard people on the left compare this modern day event to the trials of Nazis after WW2, and this is an excellent comment, as the war on terror hasn’t ended yet.
(See-Dubya is blogging this afternoon, not Michelle.)
This is a good thing. They won’t be able to appeal based on inadequate representation.
Don’t forget shooting up a compound in Waco where innocent children died. But hey, terrorists – can’t give them the death penalty.
Torch Reno….Talk about drawing the crap card!
What most folks don’t know it…
Who is gonna pay for these legal masterminds???
Because its a “Rights” issue, the American Taxpayer.
At whatever billable hours they want to put down, win or loose…
Ha ha! Double standard! So true, Michelle!
No respect at all, see-dubya!
If the ACLU actually stands for “American Civil Liberties Union” then I do have a problem with this organization providing legal defense to non-American persons – especially when the defense’s position is in exact opposition to American Civil Liberties.
People just can’t see-dubya!
Okay, -10 points on the humor card.
Is that a dude?
For his next trick, c-dub impersonates Rodney Dangerfield.
Hey, folks – it’s Friday!
What, no former U.S. Attorney General Ramsey Clark on the dream team who tried to defend Saddam Hussein, ‘the war criminal’s best friend’?
I thought at first glance, it was a man in a wig.
I’ve always thought it stood for All Communist Lawyers Union.
Bush better get his act in gear and try and convict these terrorists before the Jan 2009. The next president will release these animals and give them USA citizenship.
And oh yeah, let’s not forget that at least Nazi Germany was a country, with a legitimate government, and they fought in uniform, under a flag, with a command and control structure,and were signatories to international treaties, and allowed the Red Cross into POW camps, and the list goes on and on, and these AQ and Taliban trash do none of that.
Geez Louise, these ACLU America-haters chap my hide!
Anti
Christian
Liberal
Union
My take before today.
Little Elian Gonzalez was being returned to his father and rightful legal guardian. The people he was taken from were essentially trying to kidnap him.
The defendants at Nuremburg were accused and (mostly) found guilty of crimes more horrific than the detainees at Gitmo. Hitler’s driver was not on trial, but Bin Laden’s driver (alleged) is. The Nuremburg defendants had more rights than those at Gitmo. The stature of America was enhanced by the clearly fair Nuremburg trials and will be diminished by the clearly unfair trials at Gitmo (if Bush is allowed to proceed as planned).
The Nuremburg defendants had less rights than those at Gitmo. The stature of America was questioned over the fairness of the Nuremburg trials but will be enhanced by the clearly more fair trials at Gitmo (if Bush would only proceed as planned).
I know for me, if I found out that Janet Reno was going to be my lawyer, I’d immediately petition the court on a “mercy plea”. I’d rather be shot now, than to have to listen to Reno for weeks making political speeches (for my defense), and then get shot.
J S Ragman. Thank you for acknowledging what many on the left conveniently overlook. For the most part, the German Army fought within the LOAC. lgm may be confusing politics with warfare. The Weimar Regular Army was not pleased with the elevation of the SS within their ranks.
Isn’t Lynne Stewart Available?
The ACLU showing the American people more and more how sick they truly are.
Didn’t Reno help free those people from the church in Waco Texas?
Doesn’t the word “TREASON” mean anything anymore? Someone please explain it to the ACLU!
Very convenient not mentioning that those prosecuted a Nuremburg were members of an UNIFORMED ARMY, of a country whom had declared war against the world. All of the Gitmo arrestees ARE members of, or participated with TERRORIST ENTITIES, NOT a uniformed military.
It doesn’t matter how a person is murdered under the law. Murder is murder, and that person is just as much dead. Gas chambers, or beheading matter not, since both are designed to create a sense of terror in the person’s last moments alive. Get that point…terror?
Why does it NOT surprise me, that you take the side of defending terrorists? You, lgm, do not deserve to be a citizen in a free country that you so callously take for granted. THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR TERRORISM, NOR THOSE WHO (YOU) WOULD CHOOSE TO LOOK THE OTHER WAY, AND PRETEND THERE IS AN EXCUSE FOR THEIR ACTIONS. You are pathetic!!! (And no, I don’t think they should be provided DEFENSE attorneys. What possible defense can be mounted, other than to say, “I wasn’t there!”)
lgm,
Spin Waco for us now.
You called our country “America”. Did you not say there was no such thing? Make up your troll mind.
Terrorists have no rights to a fair trial. They have signed no treaties now have they?
GEEEEZZZ you are a freak.
Tell the truth. If Elian Gonzalez had been swept away by a Bush admin AG, you would not feel the same way would you?
How about those terrorists kids at Waco? Where was their fair treatment?
Hey See-Dubya:
Welcome! I’ve enjoyed your posts today, but I have a problem with this one. You wrote:
I think you need to add quotes around “accomplishments,” since her decision there is most definitely not universally held to be a good one.
LOL What is scarier..
having Bill Clinton alone with your daughter..
having Michael Jackson alone with your little son.
having a Doctor’s Appointment with Dr. Jocelyn Elders.
or having Janet Reno as your appointed attorney.
soap,
I can’t get my keyboard to put those 3 letters together from our troll. His only agenda is to antagonize and I am finished with the moron.
Gee, I thought we had a political embargo with Cuba – yet AG Reno was doing business with them.
Oh, by the way, Elian was brought to this country by his other legal guardian, his mother, who died in the attempt to come to the US. You cannot kidnap your own kid. Elian was staying with relatives who really don’t qualify as kidnappers either. By definiton, he reached our dry land and therefore could be a candidate for political asylum.
Elian Gonzales was treated like nothing more than a Bill Clinton Janet Reno feel good politcal football – at gunpoint no less.
Isn’t Janet mentally screwed up with some ailment? Maybe I just thought that by the way she acts; anyway I’m glad she’s not my lawyer. Maybe this is one of Carl Roves plots.
I thought the picture was a photoshop.
Then I realized that it was Janet Reno.
One solution to GITMO would be the air transport return at 30,000 feet of prisoners as far back as Afghanistan. Transportees must provide their own oxygen mask and their own parachute for the drop. However, this will never happen.
Formation of an ACLU dream team to defend GITMOees is no surprise. The ACLU revels in putting a finger in the eye of America when it can but in this case they forgot to drain the swamp and remove the alligators. It will be a military court with a military judge with military prosecutors. No trial by their peers. Much as starting each inning with two outs and two strikes and a military umpire. They have a real chance to get their professional butts kicked between the goal posts. To me Janet Reno was far more the political pawn than Ms. Law and Order. What is her recourse. Fire bomb the judges.
Note: see-dubya your doing a great job!
#37 On April 4th, 2008 at 5:19 pm, Mixer14 said:
“…he reached our dry land and therefore could be a candidate for political asylum.”
I was as ashamed of, and outraged at, this incident as were most of the bloggers here so far.
But, I seem to remember at the time reading and/or hearing that one of the lawyerly tricks Clinton and Reno were able to use, in order to send that poor little 6-year-old back to that horrible place, was that he and his mother did NOT reach U.S. “soil” on their own; they were adrift at sea, and were rescued by, I beleive, a U.S. Coast Guard cutter, and THEN brought to U.S. soil.
That episode kinda makes you proud to be an American, doesn’t it?
(With tongue firmly in cheek.)
Whoa!!!
…I belIEve…
Good thing my English teacher relatives didn’t see that!
I was sitting here thinking about the Elian Gonzalez debacle, when I saw Reno’s picture on the main page with the link to the post. She was deadset on sending a child back there and, now, she is set on getting terrorist killers out of there that want all of us infidels dead. Talk about the pendelum swining to the other end.
right_on (#32)
1. The defendants at Nuremburg were badder bad guys than anyone we have at Gitmo. The Nazis broke enough international law that they didn’t deserve to receive it. They did anyway and we (not they) are better for it.
2. Many detainees at Gitmo were found innocent and released. How can you be sure that everyone left is guilty?
Mixer14 said (#37):
It happens all the time. A couple divorces, one parent gets custody and the other kidnaps the kid. If the mother dies, the father gets custody, not the uncle or cousin or whatever.
I worked in the U.S. Dept. of Justice when Janet Reno was the Attorney General and met her on several occasions. She had to be the dimmest bulb in whatever room she happened to be in.
I can guarantee you that if she has anything to do substantively with the defense of the 7 Gitmo detainees charged by the government not only will they get the death penalty they will also be in the immortal words of Major Hochesteter (of Hogan’s Heroes) “be shot AND sent to the Russian Front.”
I have never met anyone in so an important job so unqualified for the job they have been given.
Swampleg
I’m not even sure where to start with this one. But, Al Qaeda is not the uniformed army of any nation. As such, they are not entitled to provisions of the Geneva Convention. But, I see that others have tried to educate you on this technicality and it just isn’t sinking in for you.
Hello?! It was the military tribunals that found them innocent, the very entities from whom you and others of your ilk would like to wrestle the trials. If they were good enough to clear and release those, why the sudden concern with their competencies on the rest of them?
For the life of me, I don’t see how anyone educated in such as finite field as Mathematics has such as hard time with such cut-and-dry points.
Hey lgm: Just who are you to decide WITHOUT EVEN BOTHERING to make an argument how many international laws an organization and its members get to break before they deserve Nuremburg-style trials?
How many detainees has Al Qaeda released because they concluded they were actually innocent?
What were the 911 victims guilty of?
How about Daniel Perle and the others beheaded on video? Did they have representation and a fair trial? What were THEY guilty of?
#46 Barry F.:
Hope your eyes don’t glaze over, but here, I’ll say it again:
There is no point in trying to convince true believers of the opposite worldview that they are incorrect.
It will be as futile as trying to defend yourself at your witchcraft trial, guaranteed.
Or, as futile as trying to get an answer out of Nigel Tufnel that is different from “It goes to eleven”.
I know, Granite. But, it is that itch thing we discussed earlier.
LGM said (#44)
And how do you know the father had exclusive custody rights? In the case of Elian, from what I’ve read, he was living with his mother when they attempted to flee to the US.
Here’s another small legal issue for lgm too. Custody in another country is not as terribly binding here, even if the father were to happen to have it.
For example, when someone moves to my state from another and was granted custody in the other state, custody is not a given, unless the order from the prior state is domesticated in this state.
And, as an aside, I believe Elian was actually in his mother’s custody, when they left Communist Cuba to come to the U.S.
I was going to say something cute about Elian and Waco, but it’s all too much. What a sad time in America when that stupid, stupid woman had power. Will we ever be rid of the Clintons and the damage they’ve done? Ever??
p.s. Elian was pawn. Sending him back was how the Clintons gave the finger to anyone that had the audacity to consider a communist dictatorship evil.
Considering they are not in this country, not American citizens, not members of an organized army with uniforms, but are illegal combatants, the right to breath should be about the only right they have…….for now.
We are in a state of authorized force aka war. In times of war military law overrides civil law. Period. Providing support for the enemy in a time of war is treason. (thank you #31) Period. The Commander In Chief has every legal right to use force to prosecute traitors.
Of course this won’t happen… some people are still pining for another Regan, but I want another Lincon.
OK, I’m done… que up lgm.
Please don’t banter with a
jack-asstroll, this only encouarges it.If we had journalist in our country, the first and second things to be covered would be Reno’s Waco crime and her travesty with Elian.
give em enuff rope…
lgm,
Actually, none of us knows for certain the guilt of the remaining detainees at gitmo. Therefore I believe you cannot speak to the unfairness of their incarceration any more then I can speak to the fairness of it, except to say they were definitely caught doing battle with us and not in any kind of uniform.
I’m all for the trials, and all for the ACLU wasting their money. The truth will come out then.
As for HItler’s driver, he wasn’t caught doing battle with us in no uniform whatsoever.
As for whether or not the detainees are as bad as the Nazis, do you really think they would pass up an opportunity to kill every Jew they could get their grubby paws on?
They really are bad guys and I’m glad we’re willing to put them on trial of any sort. Their deeds should come out.
My final thought on this is…if Janet Reno is what the arrestees have to look forward to, enjoy HELL!
I wonder…if Reno should not want to offend, would she, or wouldn’t she veil-up…oh, wait, I forgot about Stewart…but then again, the cleric wasblind…
swampleg, I don’t dispute anything you’ve said about Reno, but let’s also give “Brownie” of FEMA fame his due.
swampleg said (#45):
I’ve heard other people say this.
Barry F. said (#46):
If we violate basic principles on a technicality, we show ourselves and the world we don’t hold these principles deeply.
This was all litigated in US courts. Those holding (kidnapping) Elian refused to abide by the US court rulings. Are you making yourself the legal expert and judge?
brooklyn red said (#55):
Not the same. Congress did not declare war. Not every authorized action of our military is a full scale war.
The constitution does not say this. The fact that Lincoln and Roosevelt broke the law is a blot on their records.
SHoward said (#58):
I agree, but many here think they’re guilty and therefore don’t need trials.
I disagree. Part of fairness is a speedy trial. They’ve been in prison for half a decade with no trial even started. Guilty or innocent, that’s unfair.
I was surprised to learn that this is not true. Some were turned over to US forces by locals in return for rewards. Others (possibly guilty) were kidnapped by US agents.
Maybe Hitler had a civilian driver.
We don’t punish people for things we think they might be capable of. We punish them for crimes they succeed in committing. That’s why there’s a difference between murder and attempted murder.
Janet Reno is a murderer. Under her orders these people were psychologically tortured, gassed (poison CS gas), then shot and incinerated. 80 citizens of this country slaughtered. There were men, women, children, white and black (I believe about 30% of the Branch Dividean was black) in a crime that was recorded by the bored media who commented about the “temperature coefficients” as the fire rage. Janet Reno should be hung by the neck until dead.
The democrats cared nothing about it. The Left cared nothing about it. And the Republicans when they took over congress were able to do nothing except hold hears and file reports.
lgm,
I’m not entirely certain why the delay has taken place, but wasn’t at least part of the reason because we weren’t entirely sure of what specific legal rights the detainees had?
We are treading new territory here, I think, so a delay of several years may not be out of line. (I’m no international lawyer, so I could be wrong.)
It seems to me that if the only real right they’ve been denied is a speedy trial, that may not be so bad. Especially with the circumstances.
As for how they were captured, I am not up to speed on that. I would hazard a guess that by the time they were captured, however it was done, there may have been good reason. This is a good reason also to have a trial, to determine if they are in fact guilty.
As for what they might have done, I didn’t say that’s why they should be punished. I was commenting on previous comments that the Nazis were worse. I disagree: The terrorists are at least as bad as the Nazis that prosecuted the Holocaust. Again, I wasn’t saying that alone is reason to execute them, just that their intentions are that bad.
We may have to change the ending of the Pledge of Allegiance. Justice isn’t for all, only for the politically favored. The rest of us either have to clean out our life savings to clear our name or cop a plea to an offense we didn’t commit.
LGM, if brains were dynamite, you wouldn’t have enough to blow your nose..
you IQ is so low, you need blunt head trama so you can hope to function as an adult..
you dribble diarrhea of the mouth every time, EVERY TIME, I see you post on here… How can you function in real life as stupid as you are..
I’m usually live and let live but in your case, you need an intervention of understanding in how the real world works..
God help the kids you ‘teach’ in your school.. Public school, right?
“Yikes, Dikes on Bikes!”
That be Janet Reno the U.S. Attorney General appointed by Bill Clinton to Oust our Country of the likes of evil Cuban dissident Elian Gonzalez. The Chief Engineer of the destruction of Waco and Ruby Ridge. And the architect of the “sleep at the wheel” Oklahoma City Courthouse Bombing investigations. The esteemed US Attorney General whom could not identify legal charges for Bill Clinton to hold Osama Bin Laden in the 90’s.
I’d say those Gitmo Terrorists will be regurgitating into there Korans over this “DIKE” defense.
If we’re lucky Gitmo suicides will sharply increase before trial.
SUICIDE BY DIKE! “W is a genius again!”
Troll-you think we should honor AQ. What pretell do you think they do to our service members or contractors when they capture them? There is no trial, no GC. You truly live in an Ivory Tower and you’re lucky-you don’t live in the real world with real people who have to go over and come in contact with these individuals who to you are probably just misguided. I have to wonder about you. Perhaps we can close Gitmo and build a prison next to your home and you can visit them everyday. If we can close Gitmo and put some at Hyannis with the Kennedy’s and the rest near math boy than I’m all for it. You can visit them on a daily basis and have your children do the same.
It’s one think to acknowledge their right to legal counsel; it is another for these lawyers to jump all over themselves to defend them. I didn’t see them rushing to defend the Marines over the Haditha charges. There’s something wrong when the ones they jump to defend are always our enemies. Why don’t they ever defend organizations trying to fly the American flag or harmless religious symbols?
Hey AlohaGuy,
“Brownie”, which one do you mean, the mayor of chocolate city Katrina failure fame, or the horse show guy that used to run Fema.
Which one lost their job?
Are you saying “Chocolate City Mayor” was faultless?
I’m not sure what it has to do with this post?
I think “brownie” and the blame should be placed all around—Former Governor Blanco, choculate city nagin, fema and the people who waited to be evacuated and didn’t take the steps to take care of themselves. (Yes, I am blaming the “victocrats”)
GSP
GSP,
I heard they ran short of the AIDS virus to infect the chocolate city, so Brownie and Rove figured out a way to direct some high winds and rain into NO.
How was this overlooked? It was posted in Obama’s church bulletin?
Janet Reno was unqualified to be Attorney General. Hillary and Gloria Steinem demanded that Clinton only consider women to be AG. Bill wanted his crony Webster Hubbell to get the job. So after several other candidates washed out, in desperation Clinton selected Reno. Clinton was totally disloyal even to Reno. After the Waco debacle, Clinton made Reno be the fall guy (literally and figuratively). The Elian Gonzalez tragedy was a result of Reno’s longstanding contempt for the Cuban-American community in Miami.
You forgot the destruction of the terrorist Branch Davidian compound. And also the Ruby Ridge Raid.
On April 4th, 2008 at 9:48 pm, lgm (#61)said:
I disagree. It shows we deal as we are dealt! Reciprocation works both ways; the world should not expect us to assume a non-retaliatory pose out of principle, while murderous thugs take every advantage to harm us.
Thanks rooster, I forgot my “rev wright” talking points this morning.
GSP
We are not them. We do not act like them. We are better than they are. We have a choice between proving that we have a better army and that we are better people. Everyone knows about the army. Lets prove we are better people.
No Troll we are not them but it’s easy for you who send not your spouse or your children off to Iraq. You have the luxury of sitting on your butt and letting someone else’s family member be captured by them. I am sick and tired of this “we’re better than them” argument. I’m sure it wasn’t much comfort to Matt Maupin and the others when they met their deaths. Put of course if it makes you feel better in your ivory tower than by all means, pat yourself on the back. Those of us in the real world with real spouses who go to Iraq while you run around NY doing marathons or whatever it is you do besides not shaving have the luxury of knowing there will not be a knock on your door one day. So sleep well and run your feet into the ground. There are others who are more brave than you are who will do the job. You can eat yourself silly and feel good about yourself because “you’re better than everyone”. Give me a frickin break.
PS I don’t buy your line that you don’t hate the military. I think you do and what was really telling is that you didn’t say you liked them either. If they come for you, I hope before the knife goes across your throat you remember that you’re better than everyone else in the world while the last words you hear are “Allah Akbar”. Sleep well troll, there are real men and women in this world who do the work so you can mock those who serve and mock our country and mock our President. You cannot show the troops any thanks just disdain. You are living in a time warp of the 60’s and 70’s and one day maybe you’ll wake up to what’s really going on in the world.
Too bad Janet Reno didn’t care as much about the innocents at Ruby Ridge and Waco, whom she slaughtered, as she does about the terrorists at Gitmo, whom she’d save.
What is going on in my beloved country??
Janet “Waco” Reno fighting for the rights of terrorists? Where was this concern for human rights when she sent BATF goons and tanks into the compound in Waco that killed dozens of women and children?
Leftists never met a terrorist they didn’t like.
Wasn’t top ACLU leader Charles Rust-Tierney sent to the big house for possessing child pornography? Wonder if he will be lending his legal council from his jail cell.