Seattle follies: Obama supporters boo Pledge of Allegiance, Hillary-promoting celeb Sean Astin derides “Barack Hussein Obama”
Ah, Seattle. Dear old Seattle. Moonbatty to the core. Eli Sanders at the left-wing Stranger chronicles the legislative caucus in the 43rd district (McDerm territory):
When Clinton’s surrogate finally showed up he was… Sean Astin??? Yes, the man who played Samwise Gangee in Lord of the Rings had flown up to rally the Hillary Clinton troops. Which made very little sense, given that the type of people who show up for legislative district caucuses on a Saturday don’t really need a celebrity (or semi-celebrity) to motivate them to take political action.
Astin’s speech was most memorable for this line: “Should Obama get the nomination I will become a massive Barack Hussein Obama supporter.”
As you know, I am not a fan of this tactic. But let’s see if the punditocracy and politicos are consistent. When conservative talk show host Bill Cunningham referred to Obama the same way Astin did, he was drummed out of the McCain camp.
What will Hillary do?
Sanders continues:
Hussein? Eyebrows shot up. Brows furrowed. Heads turned. A friend in the audience texted me: “Hussein!?” I’m not sure what Astin was up to with that line, but someone probably should have told him that Seattle’s 43rd District is the last place in the U.S. where subliminal messaging around Obama’s middle name is likely to move Democrats toward Clinton.
Heh. Indeed.
The crowning moment:
Further proof of this: There was some time to kill as multiple tallies of the delegates and alternates were done, and when the time-killer of taking audience questions had run its course and the idea of teling jokes had been nixed, someone suggested doing the Pledge of Allegiance to pass the time. (Are you listening, right-wing bloggers? This is going to get good.)
At the mere mention of doing the pledge there were groans and boos. Then, when the district chair put the idea of doing the Pledge of Allegiance up to a vote, it was overwhelmingly voted down. One might more accurately say the idea of pledging allegiance to the flag (of which there was only one in the room, by the way, on some delegate’s hat) was shouted down.
Can’t wait for the Democrat National Convention…
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- Neocon News » Mark Penn: Did he trade a lifetime’s supply of coffee for his Clinton gig?
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- Obama HUSSEIN = The Anti-American Candidate | The TIW Blog
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- Pieces of a Whole » Blog Archive » The appeal of Mr. Barack Obama and his qualifications
I hope that Hill and the Big O can keep fighting each other until the convention so (high hopes) middle America can see how failed their policies are..
Loons of Seattle, hate the military, despise the country, then act surprised and outraged when a defense contract goes elsewhere.
But…
Don’t question their patriotism.
I question their patriotism every day….disturbed individuals.
Michelle, you have to get used to the middle name, since presidents’ middle names are so often used.
Other than that, if Seattle demobats can’t stomach the Pledge of Allegianc, they have no business trying to run my country.
what is wrong with these people and why do they get to vote if they hate this country?
Beautiful. We just may have found another litmus test for losers, er, Liberals.
Pehaps we should take advantage of their aversion to the Pledge.
Maybe it’s possible we can insure that there is someone at all Democrat venues who would also suggest reciting the Pledge of Allegiance.
Hobbits? Habbits? When will our Empire strike back at these liberal loons?
I can hear them Moonbats now…
“I Pledge Allegiance to myself of the United States of Aggression and to the Zionist Supporting Republic for which it stands, one racist nation, under Bush-hitler, in derision, with liberty and justice for all Guantanamo detainees.”
Booing at the mere suggestion of pledging allegiance to the flag of our country? Just when you thought the champions of diversity couldn’t sink any lower. I question their patriotism every day.
Of course they overwhelmingly voted it down. They did not want video leaked of many heard in the crowd beginning their recital thusly:
And they are proud of this?
I feel sorry for the patriots of that state. The must feel like foreigners in their own country.
This is a convincer,I guess I will cancel my trip to Seattle,AGAIN.
#10 above (continued)
The event was held “at Lincoln High School in Wallingford…” and the only flag present was on “some delegate’s hat”?
I digress.
I think it was in 1984 when the Mondale campaign chose for its campaign the color green. Reagan-Bush was decked out in red, white, and blue. Ever since then the Democrats have selected patriotic colors. (The Dukakis theme song was Neil Diamond’s “Coming to America”.)
At the convention they’ll make sure that the delegates pledge allegience and perform other pro forma displays of national pride.
I’ve questioned the patriotism of dangerous clowns like these in Seattle since I was in high school in the late 60s, when this cr*p started (in the sense of receiving national attention) during our involvment in Vietnam.
And, I see absolutely nothing wrong with using Obama’s full, “three-name” name.
I think every voter in this country should be reminded of it on a regular basis, and should never forget it.
One thing you can say in favor of the Liberals is that they are consistent. Consistently obstinate and obnoxious.
I guess that the people that organized this caucus didn’t even give a thought that the Pledge of Allegiance should have started the meeting. It is not something that is used as a “time killer.”
Besides questioning the items that have already been questioned, I question their intelligence.
Folks, this middle name thingie is obviously a problem for BO. I propose that from now on, when it is necessary to specify his full name, we write “Barack H****** Obama” to spare him further embarassment. It’s the least we can do.
Oh, man and to think I felt bad Astin didn’t earn a nomination for his performance in “Return of the King”…
I’m predicting here and now that there will be several physical skirmishes at the Democratic convention in November. It is going to be a disaster.
Keep it up, indeed.
Now so long as McCain keeps his act together and plays his cards right, his opponents will do all the negative campaigning for him! Is it possible that the Democrats and their moonbat contingent hand the Republicans a victory in November???
Which is worse:
1) Crossover voting in Ohio?
2) Allowing people that hate the US to vote at all?
Astin should be ashamed of himself. Using someone’s name to make them seem like less of a candidate is shameful.
It gets harder and harder to be an HRC supporter. If (when) she loses the nomination, the Clintons better make it very clear that her supporters should support Senator Obama. Having a celebrity (Rudy! Rudy!) say that he won’t support the Democratic nominee is, frankly, stupid. It just angers partisan Dems.
…and there are still Democrats???
Here you go liberals I fixed it so even you can now stand and show unity:
I pledge allegiance to the UN
And the united continents of America
And to the communism for which it seeks
One world order under socialism
Indistinguishable
With liberty and justice for liberals.
This is a reason it gets harder? lmao, dont let all the other reasons get in your way……
I was going to visit a cousin in Seattle this summer and have decided not to go. If this is the prevalent behavior in that city, I might find myself arrested for assault!!!LOL
Yikes, what’s wrong with these people? I do question their patriotism.
This is a sad commentary on our country where moonbats vote down the Pledge. What’s next with these idiots?
Yeah, especially when he goes on to say he’ll become a “massive supporter” of Barack Obama. What a backhanded compliment (insult?)
Can someone tell me why Barack HUSSEIN Obama is bad, but George DUBYA Bush is good?
Using Baracks compete middle name is racist, for some reason. But, belittling Georges middle name is alright.
Rusty,
all joking aside..
I take it you are an Barack supporter?
How is it that BO can run on the premise of Hope and Unity when he can’t even unify his base?
Gosh, don’t question their patriotism! Unfortunately, certain “visitors” to this blog will think this another meaningless event that we Conservatives take too seriously.
And these folks think they’re qualified (or sane) to run the country?
Shameful? We are talking about liberals here. Does Bush-Hitler ring a bell?
We are supposed to care about liberals’ anger management problems? Liberals are already worked up to a frothy frenzy this election year. After all they’ve done to undermine the defense of our nation, you ask far too much of me to even pretend to care if their heads literally explode.
Remember when Sen. Obama stated he didn’t put his hand over his heart during the National Anthem he stated it was because you only did this during the Pledge. I wonder if anyone on his staff every told him to truth on this or if he is still so clueless about our Country he does not know or understand this yet.
Oh but don’t question his Patriotism.
I heard counseling was available for those whom suffered trauma for being asked to vote on reciting the pledge of allegiance.
And I had such a big crush on Sean Astin as a teenager, too.
I’m moving all my investments to the manufacturers of duct tape (see #30 above).
Why does Astin need to be ashamed? He used a middle name. The audacity! When did people become so frightened of using or acknowledgeing a middle name? Could it be it has Muslim undertones?
Why do Clinton supporters need to support Obummer? Isn’t it up to them to decide who to vote for? Aren’t you being a bit presumptious? What if they don’t like Obummer… what will they do then? Suck it up for “party unity?”
Can I bring my lawn chair, martini mixer, popcorn, and kevlar when the caca hits the fan? Can I watch when the Dems’heads explode from the anger? Oh, goody
I always thought BO meant body odor.
Something Obama said recently I found a bit goofy. He said he loved the name Missoula since it had a lot of vowels like Obama (and of course Osama
This unpatriotic behavior began sometime around the mid 60’s. I was on staff at a summer camp and could not believe it when the director of one camp indicated that they would not pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America! Even schools did not until sometime around the mid 1980’s.
who knows.. maybe all of the Hillery supporters are inherently racist..
Bill Clinton is a racist.. why hasn’t there been a black woman to have come forward and say that he has has sex with her? because, at the heart of it, Clinton hates minorities..
I only ask why not..
Well, well..
Teh feces-flinging monkey brigade is in full shriek, is it?
Tragic. I am a native Wahingtonian now living in Tennessee. Once again, my Roosevelt Democrat parents would be horrified if they were alive today to see this undisciplined libertine behavior. This transformation has occurred over the last 30 years since the So Cal poison slowly seeped north. The Northwest was always Democrat but not Marxist and certainly not seditious.
The onus and ramifications of using someone’s appellation merely to point them out are not on the speaker, but the listener.
As attentive listeners, we each bring into the mix of understanding our own interpretations, prejudices and connotations of words and terms in determining whether or not what we hear is offensive.
Thus, if any Democrats are made uneasy when Barack Hussein Obama’s full name is used to reference him, then it is they who have the problem and not the speaker.
BTW, I misread Astin’s quote. I thought he said he wouldn’t support Senator Obama if he got the nomination. He (obviously) said the opposite.
My bad.
The reason that Senator Obama’s middle name is off limits (while Rodham and W. are a-ok) is because no one is idiotically accusing Obama of being a Muslim Manchurian candidate. Using “Hussein” is trying to associate Obama with our enemies and that isn’t acceptable.
If Harry S Truman’s middle name was “Hitler” instead of the letter “S,” callimg him “Harry Hitler Truman” would certainly be out of bounds.
Nothing would divide the Dems more than if Hitlary succeeds at getting the FL and MI delegates counted. The BHO supporters would scream bloody murder while McCain’s camp would say, “Gooooood!”
There is no question about their patriotism. They don’t have any, period.
To repeat, there is absolutely nothing wrong with using all three of Obama’s names.
If there is nothing to hide, and if there is nothing for anyone to be concerned about, then there should be no problem.
This blather about “Manchurian candidate” concerns is exactly - exactly… - the type of dismissive rhetoric employed by the useful-idiot, fellow-traveling, Soviet apologists during the cold war to excuse, rationalize, explain away, - and, of course, to dismiss - any and all Communist atrocities, crimes, and threats:
Example - the Hollywood blacklist “victims” were just courageous, freedom-loving and freedom-supporting blah, blah, blah; when they were in fact either former members of the Communist party, or fellow travelers, or socialist sympathizers.
Example - the Rosenbergs weren’t Communist spies; but yet Ronald Radosh, a self-admitted “red-diaper” baby, while researching the Rosenberg files for a book in which he intended to show that they had been innocent; instead found that, and had to admit,…that they were indeed guilty as charged.
Example - The Katyn forest massacre was supposedly not perpetrated by the Soviets, but rather by the Nazis, who falsely accused the Soviets…until the Russians admitted their blame
~15-20 years ago.
Example - The Soviets were peace-loving…they built up missiles and ground their satellites under their boot only because they felt threatened by the U.S.
Riiggghhhttt - ask the Czechs about the 1968 “Prague Spring”; ask the Poles (who were themsleves no angels after WWI) about the Nazi-Soviet pact; ask the Hungarians about their 1956 uprising; ask the East Germans about their uprising in the early 50s, and about their experieince with the Berlin Wall.
Example - Ho Chi Minh was simply a freedom fighter; there was no Communist threat in Southeast Asia…if only the U.S. would get out of Vietnam, nothing bad is going to happen there.
Riigghhttt…ask the ?2-3 million? souls who were slaughtered in Cambodia and Vietnam after the U.S. pulled out, and especially after the socialist(I do not use the term democrat any longer)-controlled U.S. Congress shamefully cut off ASSISTANCE (military aid) to the South Vietnamese.
Similarly, Obama is no threat at all…it is unfair and “wrong” to include his middle name…blah, blah, blah; people who have doubts about him are foolish, etc, etc, blah, blah, blah,….
If there is nothing to hide…why then are socialists so ferociously affecting such moral outrage over the use of Obama’s middle name?
When these same socialists are the very ones who pioneered the personal smear, the adolsecent use of profanity, who mockingly scorned, and degraded the maintenance by others of common decency and morality.
Could socialists be any more shamelessly hypocritical?
MORONS! 80% of the attendees at this Darth Vader gathering were probably sent over by the professors at Evergreen State College.
Please!! Somebody help me get out of this state. I’m choking on pot smoke and drowning in Absolut!
Why not just drop the pretense and re-name themselves The Anti-American Party?
Not exactly true. I distinctly remember a situation in my grade school (the late 1950s) where a very nice young black girl would not recite the Pledge or stand for the National Anthem. It was explained to us (outraged pre-teens) that this was a religious thing. I’m guessing she was a Black Muslim.
My wife had the students do the Pledge every morning of her 30 year teaching career, beginning in the 70s and she did not start the practice.
I agree that the accurate use of a candidate’s middle name is within bounds. George Herbert Walker Bush’s full name is used to imply he is an elitist and couldn’t represent “the people” and by extension, neither could his son. That problem exists in the ear of the listener.
However, I do find it curious that just as Obama began to campaign in Pennsylvania, the Comcast cable network showed The Manchurian Candidate about a dozen times. Regardless of that coincidence, it is a good movie!
Should’ve maybe had the ol’ red flag, with hammer and sickle standing by, for an “alternative” symbol for which to pledge…seems to me that the party of the (far) left like “alternatives” and symbolism, do they not?
The state should be renamed to “Brain-Washing Town.” Or better yet, Looney-Toon-Opia!
#51 On April 7th, 2008 at 12:17 pm, Klaatu said:
“Not exactly true. I distinctly remember a situation in my grade school (the late 1950s) where a very nice young black girl would not recite the Pledge or stand for the National Anthem. It was explained to us (outraged pre-teens) that this was a religious thing. I’m guessing she was a Black Muslim.”
Klaatu: That’s why in my post #17 above, I included “in the sense of receiving national attention”.
Such anti-American silliness/disrespect/treachery (there’s a spectrum, as far as I’m concerend) likely started sometime in the “Progressive” era, around the time of T. Roosevelt and Wilson, but I do not believe it was flashed across the nation, smack in the face of average, “silent-majority” Americans, until the mid-late 60s, when it was embraced and championed by the counterculture.
@granite:
Oh, maybe I misread/misunderstood your post…
It is encouraging to note that all around the country, there are dignified and heartfelt displays of patriotism. The goings-on on the looney left coast look all the more ridiculous in comparison.
…Granite #48
Kudos - Great post.
granite,
The far right fringe throws out these preposterous, unsubstantiated theories about Obama and then you criticize us as dismissive? Well, yes, I guess I do tend to be dismissive of crackpot ravings.
And how exactly are your “examples” supposed to relate to Obama?
If, someday, someone digs up the mind control microprocessor apparently planted in Obama’s brain or snaps a photo of him giving Bin Laden the super secret muslim handshake in a cave in Pakistan, I will apologize profusely for ever having doubted your infinite wisdom. Until then, though, you just sound deranged.
Um, it’s not illegal or even anti-American to be a Communist. It’s just foolish.
And the reason the name is a problem is that it’s an attempt to hurt someone’s image through his name. Through something he had no control over.
Some things are out-of-bounds. An attempt to link someone to a recent enemy of America because of a coincidence is unfair.
And when it comes from the Clinton camp, it’s especially bad. That doesn’t help Senator Clinton. It only hurts Senator Obama come general election time.
Granite, you know the Pledge was written by a Socialist, right? How un-American! What a traitor!
Since you seem to support the Hollywood black listings, do you think it’s time that we black list the Pledge?
Can we have just one theory about Obama?
Just one?
Wow!
Must’ve struck a nerve, or even more than one!
The straw men are springing up!
To repeat…what is unfair about using all three of an individual’s names?
What link has been made?
Facts have been stated - here and in the past.
What is unfair about facts?
Oh, I forgot: socialists/secularists/arrested-development adolescents think facts are unfair.
What came over me?
It is not anti-American to be a communist?
What planet is that poster living on.
If I one not super-polite, one would have to say that that statement is one of the stupidest that has ever been uttered.
If one were not super-polite….
Apologies.
The one that you apparently buy into about him secretly being a Muslim.
You mean that one?
Could be a Jehovah’s Witness.
I buy into nothing.
What I have stated, and still stand by, is that I do not trust him.
For the umpteenth time…read very slowly, #62 - yes, you may move your lips:
The practice of Taqiyya (”deception”) is extolled and used by Muslim jihadists.
Obama’s father and grandfather were Muslims.
Although attending a Catholic school in (Muslim) Indonesia, Obama was listed as “Muslim”.
Obama had been to a Mosque, as far as I know, more than once.
I have read that Obama on at least one occasion (I believe that is all it takes) recited some excerpt from the Koran.
I am not aware that any of the above points is contrary to fact.
Thus, from what I can deduce, at one point in his life, Obama was a Muslim…at least he would qualify to be considered a Muslim by other Muslims.
Obama may claim that he is a “Christian”.
First, he has some gall and nads to claim that Wright’s “church” is a “Christian” “church”.
Second, I have read about Taqiyya (”deception”) being employed by Muslim jihadists.
Now, Obama, at the moment, himself may not consciously be planning to advance Muslim interests.
However, Muslims worldwide, from what I have read, are simply enthusiastic and thrilled about his candidacy; that is not comforting.
Also, Obama may claim he is a Christian, and that he never considered himself to be a Muslim.
But, to the Muslim jihadist savages we are battling, what Obama thinks matters not.
If the Muslim jihadist barbarians consider that Obama was indeed once a Muslim, and that by his claim to now be a Christian is thus an apostate, Obama will have a target on his back, now and for the rest of his life.
So, logic dictates that there are three possibilities, should Obama be elected:
1) He does not consider himself a Muslim, and does not openly support Muslims; but he just blunders along with typically disatrous socialist policies.
2) He does not consider himself a Muslim; however, radical jihadist loons consider Obama to be an apostate, and issue a worldwide fatwa against him.
#) He is currently employing Taqiyya (again, that’s deception), and is in fact planning to act in cahoots with worldwide Muslims.
Whether 1, 2, or 3, I cannot trust him, and refuse to trust him.
Why should I, or any American, take the risk?
And, is it not an interesting coincidence that Obama, a nobody, should all of a sudden come out of nowhwere, to be a contender for the Presidency?
Waitng for the dismissive scorn of conspiracy theories from our socialist/secularist/arrested-development interlocutors in 10,…9,…8,…7,….
Rusty:
If I’m not mistaken, I believe the inscription on the Statue of Libery was also written by a Socialist. That said, they were, presumably, tactful socialists. All bets are off now. No need to be tactful when you think the pendulum is swinging your way. I have now probelm with socialists or secularists or anyone else, just so long as they employ political assertiveness and not aggression.
It’s not easy. Actually, outside of Seattle city limits, it is easier, but I’ll be damned if I’m going down without a fight. I was born here and I’m staying here and I refuse to surrender my state to the left-wing crazies.
This past Saturday my husband and I attended our republican county convention as voting delegates. We live in Washington State. It was our first time participating in local political grass roots activism. I am happy to report to you how our local Republicans conduct business.
The convention was STARTED with the Pledge of Allegiance. Everyone stood, everyone faced a large American flag displayed at the front, and every hand was over a heart. [Hats did not need to be removed because gentlemen remove head gear when they come indoors.
]
Next on the agenda. The invocation. Yes, a prayer. A prayer that our Lord in Heaven bless our efforts that day as he has blessed this great nation since its inception. Everyone stood, heads were bowed. At the conclusion of the invocation, there were many “amens”, many Signs of the Cross, and not one single peep of a complaint.
Then we got down to business. And we stayed busy for 10 hours. We had to take four rounds of votes for state delegates. While those were being counted, we motioned for attending to the next item on the agenda. We didn’t have to search for idiot-entertainments to “pass the time”. We worked. Plain and simple. It was a gathering of working people who had families to get back to and things we would all rather be doing, but we stayed long into the evening to get the work done because . . . it needed to be done and we had pledged that we would do the work.
Good ideas were given vigorous debate. Bad ideas were voted out. It was a good experience. Hubby and I didn’t completely agree with everything that made it into the platform (in fact he and I, as would be expected of any two people, voted differently on some things), but that’s okay. I really enjoyed meeting the people there. And I am absolutely positive that everyone in that room loved America and was working hard to keep her great.
True… forgot about that.
Wow. If Chap is right, what do we do about Mexicans named Jesus?
All right Granite,
Super. My grandparents were Amish. I do not wear a brimmed hat and I love electricity.
That same form also apparently listed him as being Indonesian, nor did it list his mother. So not exactly a very reliable source, is it?
As have millions of other non-muslims, including our President. Is he muslim?
Ignore the fact that millions of people all over the world are excited about anyone but the current occupant being in office. The french love him too, but that does not make him one of them. But also, ask yourself why you would allow the thinking of Muslims dictate your thoughts on the subject?
Quoting the Koran, even once, makes you muslim? Holy crap. Does Sean Hannity know he is a muslim? Cause I know I have heard him quote some choice part of it a number of times (as well as many on this board).
Your “facts” are truly impressive and now that I have seen them all, I can jump to no other conclusion than your number 3.
Huh?
Did you mean Rusty?
Sorry Chap - yes. My apologies.
I wonder how long it will be before we stop using the National Anthem? Kids at school don’t stand, and even adults refuse the Pledge. Well, me for one, will always stand for the Anthem, and put my hand over my heart too. And, if someone wants the Pledge, I’ll stand too, with my hand over my heart. They’ll probably call me an “old geezer with Altheimer’s”, in a few years because of it, along with other insults, but I’ll still be the one standing…maybe the only one.
in a sense, isn’t Obama an enemy? If he isn’t in the presidential race as an enemy then what is he to McCain and Clinton? Someone they’ll feel all happy go lucky if he wins?
for the most powerful position in the free world, there had better be a fight for it, damnit.. and in fighting, the other person is the enemy.
Ah, yes, dismiss, ridicule, mock, etc., etc., etc.
Well, I tried, folks….
Given that Muslims are nothing like the Amish;
Given that I, unlike some at this blog, could not give a fig whether millions in the world (are you reading, French & Germans?) are thrilled with the current occupant of the White House;
Given the fact that, as far as I know, unlike Obama, neither Sean Hannity nor the current President:
1) is of a Muslim father and a Muslim grandfather; AND
2) attended a Muslim school; AND
3) attended a mosque; AND
4) recited from the Koran; AND
5) easily could arguably be considered an apostate by Muslim jihadist savages; AND
6) has had articles written about him (not by me, I assure you readers) that discuss the above points ; AND
7) just happened to appear out of nowhere to contend for the socialist nomination to run for the Presidency.
Too many coincidences.
Like cops, I’m suspicious of too many coincidences.
I’d be happy to hear from anyone who is not secularist/socialist/progressive/moral-equivalent/self-hating, etc., who thinks my list is incorrect; and who thinks that there is no reason at all for apprehension and concern regarding security issues (leave the other socialist/secularist potential disasters aside for now), at the thought of an Obama presidency.
Who, besides the socialists/secularists, feels, with no doubts, that they’ll be safe against the radical Muslim loons if Obama becomes President?
#73 On April 7th, 2008 at 2:01 pm, graysonret said:
“I wonder how long it will be before we stop using the National Anthem? Kids at school don’t stand, and even adults refuse the Pledge. Well, me for one, will always stand for the Anthem, and put my hand over my heart too. And, if someone wants the Pledge, I’ll stand too, with my hand over my heart. They’ll probably call me an “old geezer with Altheimer’s”, in a few years because of it, along with other insults, but I’ll still be the one standing…maybe the only one.’
graysonret: I’ll be standing, and reciting, too.
BTW, apropos of the other discussion on this thread, that is an interesting photo of BH Obama as the one with his hand NOT over his heart, is it not?
If you don’t mind, I’ll stand next to you.
Pardon the accidental strikeout. Preview is your friend.
That is stupid. Who here feels they will be safe, with no doubts, against radical Muslim loons, no matter who is president?
And as I recall, the president on 9/11 was Christian. Didn’t seem to affect the hijackers’ decision one way or the other too much.
I guess you’ve never been to the Dutch country and seen the Amish terrorists. Just try to eat souse! Scrapple’s ok, though. Let’s see if Obama will eat either of these pork products while he campaigns in Pennsylvania.
Seriously though, I don’t care if he’s a secret Muslim. I don’t like him because he’s a socialist.
#80 Klaatu:
LOL!
I’m withya.
“That is stupid. Who here feels they will be safe, with no doubts, against radical Muslim loons, no matter who is president?”
I don’t know what world you’re living in if you would feel just as safe with Obama as President.
Perhaps to you, the perfect is the enemy of the good; and, unless there is perfect security & safety, the effort is not worth it in the first place.
I feel sorry for you; and for any who may depend on you.
“And as I recall, the president on 9/11 was Christian. Didn’t seem to affect the hijackers’ decision one way or the other too much.”
????
What in blazes does that mean?
Could you translate it into English for the rest of us?
You seem to think that Obama would make the country less safe because you suspect that he is a closet Muslim socialist.
We had a Christian fundamentalist Republican in the Oval Office on 9/11 and it didn’t seem to do us much more good.
I’m living in reality. I’ll concede that President Clinton could have done more to stop Bin Laden, and the same goes for President Bush. No matter who is president in 2009, it’s not like we’re going to be caught unawares by terrorists.
We’re just as safe no matter who is in office unless Senator Obama really is a secret terrorist operative eating expensive ham to throw us off his trail.
Also, the logic that Obama may be a terrorist because he suddenly appeared on the political scene is really snort worthy. It’s not like he was in the IL State Senate or the President of the Harvard Law Review or had a best selling autobiography before running for the Federal Senate.
I do not definitely suspect anything.
Saying that I have severe misgivings, and that I do not trust an individual:
A), because of his dangerous and potentially disastrous socialist/secularist political positions; and B), because of the multiple coincidences noted in previous posts, is somewhat different from saying that I have a definite suspicion.
Sort of like the difference between “innocent” and “not guilty”; or the difference between “probable cause” and “proof beyond a reasonable doubt”.
I suppose that is why you bring this up on every single post having to do with Obama.
Well, if its A, fine. But his “socialist/secularist” positions have nothing to do with his religion. And BTW, how can one be a secularist if he is at the same time a secret Muslim who will open the floodgates to a Muslim takeover of our society?
And if its B…
Lets just say that under any burden of proof, you fail miserably. A cop couldn’t even perform a Terry Frisk with the nonsense you are throwing out.
That’s OK.
Go ahead, continue to dismiss, deny, ridicule, etc.
Regarding:
“And BTW, how can one be a secularist if he is at the same time a secret Muslim who will open the floodgates to a Muslim takeover of our society?”
There’s that dratted deception again (Taqiyya).
“I suppose that is why you bring this up on every single post having to do with Obama.”
To play a socialist/secularist game: Well, I’m not sure it is every single post.
But, back to serious…I bring it up lest it be forgotten as a result of being dismissed/denied/ignored by others.
You may dismiss it and deny it.
I do not.
And, I am not trying to prove anything, because, as I alluded in my previous post, there is a difference between reasonable cause and conclusive proof.
I am not aware of any conclusive proof.
However, I think the reasonable cause is self-evident, except to those who do not want to see it, and who strive mightily to dismiss it and deny it.
I think there is ample reason for concern.
And the time to be concerned is before a disaster, not after.
If Obummer doesn’t like his middle name then why doesn’t he just change it? Tons of people change their names for various reasons.
Excuse me? The background of any candidate is fair game. How someone views religion is fair game. How someone was brought up in a foreign country is also fair game. What were the influences of that person growing up? What were their relationships like? Did Obummer feel any kind of affinity with Islam and why did he decide to choose the church that he did?
I’m just saying that somebody who is “supposedly religious” could condone (cough, cough, say he disagrees with some of his pastor’s inflammatory speeches) what Rev. Wright did, then what will he not tolerate and why? It seems to me that Obummer is making up his policy views on everything from gun rights to religion depending on the crowd and time of day.
If that’s the kind of candidate you want then a person’s middle name is the least of your worries.
Okay.
That is a hell of a catch-22 you got him in. Presume he is a Muslim and any evidence to the contrary is just Muslim trickery. Is there literally anything he could do to prove to you that he is a Christian? Anything?
Oh believe me, one need not strive mightily to dismiss or deny your claims. Common sense and facts do most of the work for me.
Have you put any “common sense and facts” to good use yet? Can one be skeptical of a presidential candidate without being dismissed or criticized because they don’t want to ride the “hope mobile?”
Please, prove granite wrong. Otherwise, you’re just an Obama apologist. That’s okay. It’s better to just admit one’s biases rather than to prevaricate and constantly say, “you’re wrong.”
All I need to do is say, which of these is not like the other?” That will be tough since most on this blog feel that all candidates are tilted a little to way out there left. Then the criteria will be, “which of these isn’t as socialist as the other?”
Obummer having the middle name “Hussein” is just one out of many coincidences as to why I won’t vote for him.
Sure, criticize away. I would never try to change anyone’s opinion of Obama’s policies, at least not here. But what I do object to is making an argument against Obama based on wild speculation and arbitrary conjecture.
Oh no no no. As has been pointed out to lgm many times the burden of proof lies with the one making the assertion. And all I have said is that Granite’s “proof” is laughable. That does not make someone an apologist. It makes them rational.
Not because of the closet Muslim..
but because of the socialist..
socialism is evil, no matter what the premise is (welfare, Medicaid)
I agree with that.. 9/11 would have happened regardless of who was in office then..
part of the reason why he’s the front runner for the democratic party is because of the kid glove treatment he has received from the MSM.
He is constitutionally eligible.. then again, John McCain would be 3 times as eligible as Barack AND Hillery together..
How much do you really know about Obama (or any of us)? How much of what granite discusses is just “wild speculation” or “arbitrary conjecture?” It’s hard to do a lot of research on a person who really doesn’t know who/what he actually is (Obama).
Yet, how are you an authority of what is or is not “proveable.” How far are you willing to defend someone you think you “might know?” I find your concept of “you’re wrong” contrariness interesting since you’ve taken on the mantle of Obama defender.
No, if you’re going to take on the mantle of “Obama defender,” then apologizing and rationalizing are one in the same. You seem confident that granite’s assertions are untrue. Why is that? Do you really know the truth? Or how it has been shaped by both the MSM and Obama himself.
I, personally, don’t think Obama is a Muslim, but who says? Me? You? Politicians, like many people, hide their true face from the world. The man also smokes which is interesting since he’s making a case for universal health insurance.
Granite has already admitted that his belief is a “theory.” As I’ve noticed, a theory doesn’t need to be proven. People can create theories (such as lgm) without proving squat. I guess you’d have to “dismiss” whole academic fields if that was the case. Evolution was a “theory” at one time until further analysis and scientific observation were implemented.
I’m surprised, Chaps, that you don’t want to look deeper into this question, given you’re a person of “deep thought.” Then again, if most Obama supporters looked deeper, they probably would not find much, would they?
“Is there literally anything he could do to prove to you that he is a Christian? Anything?”
I don’t know if there is any Taqiyya involved.
One of the advantages of the side that employs deception is having its adversary (us and the some of the rest of the West) believe that it in fact does not pose a threat.
That’s why dismissers and deniers of the threat (whether willingly/knowingly or not is immaterial) are of so much value to our enemy.
Back to topic, Obama does not have to prove a thing to me.
The possibility of Taqiyya is only one reason why I do not feel safe with him as President.
Even if he did try to prove it, that would not be the whole point.
The fact that some radical Muslim loons could pronounce a worldwide fatwa on Obama (which would become even MORE likely if he were to “prove” himself a Christian), even if only some of these savages in fact considered him to be an apostate, regardless of what he considered himself; and regardless of what the rest of us considered him, would imperil him and those around him from the moment the fatwa was pronounced, for the rest of his life.
It’s tough enough for the Secret Service, the Armed Froces, police, and the rest of us to protect the President and his family…why should the task be made significantly more difficult and dangerous?
#89 On April 7th, 2008 at 4:32 pm, emjem24 said:
“Please, prove granite wrong. Otherwise, you’re just an Obama apologist.”
No, no,emjem - you cannot ask someone to prove a negative, which is virtually impossible.
The best theories provide compelling evidence. Not proof, mind you, but at least evidence. What granite is doing is cherry picking certain aspects of or incidents in Obama’s life (most of which like his middle name, his father’s religion, what school he went to…he had no control over) while either 1) ignoring the mountains of evidence to the contrary or 2) using circular arguments (Taqiyya) to dismiss the evidence to the contrary.
That’s just poor science.
#90 On April 7th, 2008 at 4:39 pm:
“But what I do object to is making an argument against Obama based on wild speculation and arbitrary conjecture.”
Wild and arbitrary in your opinion - a reasonable try at creating a straw man, by dismissing and demeaning your discussion opponent.
Object away….
I listed a number of coincidences; and I do not recall any of them being proven false.
You do not (for God knows what reason) find the occurrence of all these coincidences unusual or troubling; and you mock anyone who is troubled by them, and thus has legitimate concerns..we are, after all, in a (undeclared) war.
“And all I have said is that Granite’s “proof” is laughable.”
For the ?third ?fourth ?fifth (I’ve lost count), time, I said that I did not have proof.
I said there was reasonable cause for concern.
On the other hand, you essentially declare that all these coincidences are no cause for concern.
Another nice try at creating a straw man, by the way.
Is that the best you’ve got?
I do not recall cherry-picking his middle name anywhere.
I said that there is nothing wrong in using his full name when referring to him.
Do you know what Straw Man means? Because I see that thrown around a lot here and very rarely is it used correctly.
But you are correct re: “proof”. You did not submit laughable proof you submitted laughable evidence.
“straw man”
from dictionary.com:
“2. a weak or sham argument set up to be easily refuted”
So, what’s your point?
You may find it laughable.
As I said in a post above:
“This blather about “Manchurian candidate” concerns is exactly - exactly… - the type of dismissive rhetoric employed by the useful-idiot, fellow-traveling, Soviet apologists during the cold war to excuse, rationalize, explain away, - and, of course, to dismiss - any and all Communist atrocities, crimes, and threats….”
So, have a ball, dismiss, deny, ridicule,…in fact, have a laugh fest.
I’ve seen it before, and I’m seeing it again now.
Some things never change….
Those of you who deny that the Democrat candidate for President formerly known as Barry Soetoro is a muslim: choke on my syllogism.
A single recitation of the shahadah makes you a muslim.
Obama recited the shahadah (in flawless arabic, no less.)
Therefore, Obama is a muslim.
Did you conveniently stop reading after the first paragraph? Must be, cause apparently you missed the “seven critical conditions” of the Shahadah, which if not present make it meaningless:
* Al-`Ilm: Knowledge of the meaning of the Shahadah, its negation and affirmation.
* Al-Yaqeen: Certainty – perfect knowledge of it that counteracts suspicion and doubt.
* Al-Ikhlaas: Sincerity which negates shirk.
* Al-Sidq: Truthfulness that permits neither falsehood nor hypocrisy.
* Al-Mahabbah: Love of the Shahadah and its meaning, and being happy with it.
* Al-Inqiad: Submission to its rightful requirements, which are the duties that must be performed with sincerity to God (alone) seeking His pleasure.
* Al-Qubool: Acceptance that contradicts rejection.
Show me how you can deduce these things from two sentences in a NYT article.
But keep grasping at those straws. Keep grasping.
I am sure Obama is losing a ton of sleep worrying about losing the vote of a few folks harboring loony conspiracy theories that no objective, right-minded person would even deign to entertain.
So good night and good luck.
When a footnote in a wikipedia article is labeled “citation needed,” it means that the assertion is not backed up by a authoritative source.
Like it or not, Barry O’s status as a muslim is certainly debatable.
Bet your ass he is.
Remember ol’ Howard Dean, and his statement that his party had to try harder to get the good ol’ boys with dixie flags in the rear windows of their pick-up trucks to vote democrat?
All the objective conditions have already been met, so it all boils down to what’s in his heart. Was his verbatim recitation (in arabic) sincere? Let’s see…
Everyone in his family is a muslim, he studied the koran, he attended mosque with his step father, he can cite the shahadah by heart in arabic… but he’s not a muslim.
Ok.
Prime director:
Sort of related to part of this thread:
Check out Atlas Shrugs.com.
There’s a reference to an article at Infidels Are Cool that claims that Obama’s “pastor” Wright is a former Muslim.
Hmmmm….
If that’s confirmed, that could be an extremely interesting story.
Rock-solid find, Granite.
I won’t be all that suprised if and when Obama is likewise unmasked as a “former” (read apostate) muslim.
“Everyone in his family is Muslim?” D
Do you know this to be a fact, or is this conjecture? Or more likely, are taking one thing that we know about him and expanding it to be all encompassing?
More interesting is how many people want to have it both ways. They want Obama to share exactly the same views as his Christian pastor, while they also want him to be a devout Muslim. So that makes him a Christian Muslim? Or a Muslim Christian?
But wait, there’s more. Now they want us to believe that his Christian pastor is in fact a secret Muslim also.
Talk about unhinged.
“Rock-solid find”?
He-said-that-she-said is a “rock-solid find”? To some, truth exists once the words are spoken.
sigh… fine.
Not everone.
Just his grandmother, his grandfather, his father, his step-father and his brother.
And probably a bunch of others; I haven’t taken the time to research the matter.
“My whole family was Muslim, and most of the people I knew were Muslim,”