Black and pro-life? Catholic school doesn’t want you
Jason Mattera at the Young America’s Foundation blows the whistle on the speech-squelchers at the Catholic-run University of St. Thomas in Minnesota, who embrace transgender lecturers and far Left hack Al Franken–but have barred black, pro-life speaker Star Parker:
Liberal administrators at the University of St. Thomas, a Catholic university and private college in Minnesota, censored the appearance of prominent pro-life and black speaker Star Parker. On April 21, 2008, Star—the best-selling author of numerous books—was slated to speak on campus about the devastating impact abortion has on minority communities. UST Vice President of Student Affairs Jane Canney nixed the idea entirely, citing “concerns” that the lecture was being underwritten by Young America’s Foundation.
Katie Kieffer, a 2005 alumna of St. Thomas and founder of the independent conservative newspaper on campus, the St. Thomas Standard, as well as the non-profit Conservative Student News Inc., was an organizer of the Star Parker lecture. She confronted Canney on her refusal to allow Star on campus. “Our Catholic university has hosted two decidedly liberal speakers in the past year, Al Franken and Debra Davis, an outspoken transgender woman,” Kieffer wrote in the St. Thomas Standard.
Why, then, won’t St. Thomas welcome Star Parker—a pro-life, Christian speaker?
Jane Canney told Katie and her sister, Amie Kieffer, a senior at St. Thomas and editor of the St. Thomas Standard, “As long as I am a vice president at St. Thomas, the Young America’s Foundation will not be allowed on campus.” Canney didn’t return the Foundation’s phone calls seeking comment. The Student Life Committee, on which Jane Canney resides, denied the Students for Human Life and the St. Thomas Standard a room on campus for Star Parker’s lecture. The young conservatives only needed a room and advertising space to host Parker, as Young America’s Foundation and Conservative Student News Inc. were covering all other costs.
Scott Johnson at Power Line recounts the longstanding petty tyranny at the University of St. Thomas against conservative speakers sponsored by YAF.
Perhaps this issue should be raised during the Pope’s visit next with Catholic educators.
Rick Martinez spotlights the decline of Catholic universities:
‘Is the Pope Catholic?” is a popular comeback used to denote an obvious fact. Of course he is. The answer to “Is Notre Dame Catholic?” used to be equally indisputable. But not any more
That’s a shortcoming many American Catholics pray that Pope Benedict XVI confronts next week when he makes his first papal visit to the United States. Among the many events he will preside over is a meeting with, and address to, Catholic educators. It’s a summons, really. Presidents and chancellors from all 235 U.S. Catholic colleges and universities are expected to atttend.
To borrow a Protestant phrase, I hope the pope’s address is really a “Come to Jesus” meeting. Too many Catholic universities — the University of Notre Dame is a high-profile example — have become “CINOs,” or Catholic In Name Only. Many have used the cloak of academic freedom to support causes and events contrary to church doctrine, leading to serious questions about the definition and role of Catholic identity in higher education.
The decline of Catholicism at U.S. Catholic colleges and universities has reached the point that only 10 percent adequately preach and practice church doctrine, according to the Cardinal Newman Society, which monitors Catholic higher education. A Catholic university should be the last place to find a performance of the play “The Vagina Monologues,” yet it’s scheduled on 19 Catholic campuses this academic year, including Notre Dame. The good news is, that’s less exposure than the play had in 2003-04…
…I’ll leave it to the holy father, a former theology professor himself, to explain the orthodoxy of having Catholic educators return to church teachings. As a layperson, I just want my church’s educational leaders to stop using the academic freedom argument to undermine religious freedom.
Refusing to pass out condoms to students isn’t undermining academic freedom. Refusing to establish gay resource centers has nothing to do with academic freedom. Refusing to stage a play that includes graphic descriptions and depictions of acts considered by the church as serious sins is not an issue of academic freedom.
If Catholic beliefs about human life, morality and culture aren’t going to be taught and supported at Catholic universities, then what is the point of being a Catholic institution? Why would a parent looking for a Catholic learning environment send a child — and pay top dollar to do so — to a campus that intellectually is nothing more than a secular school decorated with crosses?
These are the issues I hope Pope Benedict will discuss in clear and concise terms, as only he can, when he meets with Catholic educators next week.
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How pathetic. My “Catholic” alma mater would never allow Star Parker or any pro-life, conservative woman to speak on campus. But they’ve hosted Al Franken AND Barack Obama…
When I graduated several years ago, they awarded someone HONORS for her work with Planned Parenthood. I received honors too, but had I held the same conservative beliefs then as I do now, I bet you all I wouldn’t have been given that award.
I wish they wouldn’t refer to themselves as “Catholic” when they endorse doctrines that are anything but. Honesty would be nice.
It really is amazing the hipocrisy of these liberal groups. I don’t see how the Catholic Church and the black community have that much in common. . . yet they are overwhelmingly Democrat.
As a conservative with conservative values, I have no problem with people talking about pro-death positions, evolution only science, and anti-American speeches because I appreciate the freedom that we have in this country.
Yet by the same token, the other side doesn’t want to hear my version of the world . . . the TRADITIONAL version of the world.
Slightly off topic. People currently talk about the lack of health insurance and people dying without health insurance. 100 years ago nobody had health insurance. When people died, they didn’t die because of a lack of health insurance. The ideas in this country are so obscured and skewed that facts are no longer important to most academia. As our Iranian-American national hero Agassi said ‘image is everything’. Did I miss the place where there is an American-Iranian hero in Iran? But of course according to the left, America is the bad guy and Iran is just exercising its right.
Man this post was all over the place. sorry guys I had a lot on my mind.
This is really the bottom line…
My hunch is that Baylor isn’t clinging too close to Baptist theology either.
Amen! Being a cradle Catholic (who isn’t currently attending Mass regularly), I’ve often thought the same things as stated by Mr. Martinez. I realize some schools/universities are not under the authority of the diocese they are within, but SOMEONE within the Church should have the authority to put an end to this kind of thing. If I had a child who was looking to go off to college, I don’t know what I’d do: many (historically conservative) private institutions seem to be no better than public institutions for setting a good moral example. I don’t wish to go to the extremes of institutions such as Bob Jones University (who I had professional reasons to visit with a previous career) with strict dress codes (at least for women: men could wear jeans and t-shirts, but women were expected to wear dresses/skirts, except on Saturdays they were allowed to wear denim skirts); and man, was I surprised when they showed off the “dating parlor” with loveseats all over that was reserved for upper classmen only; and the recent yearbook I was able to flip through showed cheerleader uniforms that would not have been out of place in the 50s; and the week I was on campus, my boss and I had extra time to kill when all the staff we were training had to go to chapel. Needless to say, I kept to myself the fact that I was Catholic… Oh, and I know of someone (not through that work connection – it happened to be the son of a “local” politician…) who was confined to campus for the term after he was caught driving as a freshman…. There’s got to be some sanity returned to higher education, ESPECIALLY supposed Catholic institutions, without being completely anachronistic…
It is not about liberal vs conservative. It is about LIFE. Here is a person talking about the value of LIFE, and that abortion is the premature ending of a LIFE. This is a fundamental Catholic and Christian concept. Abortionist have become so jaded (probably because of all the killing they are party to), that they don’t want to be told about it. How many Catholics are having abortions every day? So rather than offend these people we ourselfs get side tracked by relatively minor issues like “the housing crises”. I think it is time to get back to basics and support the value of HUMAN LIFE.
A very good friend of mine who also was my Company Commander when I first entered the Army graduated from Notre Dame. She frequently talks about her Alma Mater and wonders what happened to it. I hear the same from a friend of my parents who graduated from there in 1976. I don’t know what has happened to these schools.
I think they’re too many Catholics who aren’t really Catholic anymore. You can’t be pro-abortion and a Catholic.
Let her speak!
However, that doesn’t mean that Catholic schools should bar pro-choice and/or gay speakers. Just because the Church opposes abortion, homosexual sex, and capital punishment doesn’t mean that they should bar speakers who differ from their views.
A true Catholic, or a true member of any religion, should think about their denomination’s stances on these issues. That means being presented with both sides of the argument. St. Thomas has failed in this regard.
I agree.
But then there are many who are pro-war in general (and not just unless it’s the absolute last resort) and pro-death penalty too.
On the abortion issue, I will never forget seeing The Silent Scream at my Catholic school…
Man, that headline is a bit misleading but it did get my attention.
I have recently come back to my Catholic religion and wish that I had done so earlier. It doesn’t seem that there are many Catholic grade schools or high schools that are this way but they are more closely controlled by the church.
It’s sad to say that many colleges and universities are CINO but maybe if the parents would stop sending their kids there and start complaining things would change. St. Louis U is not like this and Archbishop Burke is very outspoken about this subject. He is the one who would refuse communion to pro-abotion politicians.
Why the implication that her race had anything to do with the decision?
From what I read, the school (wrongly, btw) banned her because either 1) they don’t like her views or 2) they have a grudge against the group sponsoring her or both. Her race doesn’t seem to have played any role in it.
Seems like race baiting to me.
I think that like politics, religion has lost its core basics and as such, cannot stand on its own merits any more. Unfortunately, I still do not think we will ever see a return to more traditional values in any of these areas unless secession becomes a viable option again or something far worse happens perhaps.
Sad days indeed.
You bet it will. There are plenty of CINOs here in Western PA. As terrig said, “You can’t be pro-abortion and a Catholic”. The Church is not a smorgasbord, you can’t pick and choose which doctrines you like or dislike.
LIBERALISM!!!! Support everything this nation is against. Bitch and moan at everything that is right. Support terrorism, fight our national defense. MN will soon be the first ‘caliphate’ ever in the US. I will then move to another country.
Liberalism is a mental disorder that can only continue to exist by suppressing reality.
zorro and terrig, can you be pro-death penalty and be Catholic? How about pro-BC?
Once again, I don’t know how anyone who is either a) Catholic, or b) Pro-life, can call themselves liberal, Progressive, or Democrat. Those 2 choices go hand in hand. If you’re Anti-Life, you aren’t Catholic, no matter what you think, and if you’re Pro-Life there is no way in Hell you should be voting Democrat. Pro-Life is at the core of the Catholic Religion, and if you think Big Business, Taxes, or even the War or Border Security are more important than the Abortion issue, you’re priorities are misplaced.
I’m sick of hearing otherwise. The years of legalized abortion have deadened us to the horror of it. Literally Millions of infants murdered each year. How does border security compare to that?
I have (mostly female) relatives who say they can be Pro-choice and Catholic at the same time. You know the old line “I don’t support abortion but I believe it’s the woman’s choice.”
If you believe it’s the woman’s choice, than you’re supporting abortion, whether you like it or not. There’s no such thing as semantics when human life is involved.
All these supposedly Catholic colleges and Universities need to stop pushing planned parenthood, condoms, acceptance of ‘transgender’ (what B.S.) and gay and lesbian lifestyles. If the Church’s teaching don’t support it, the College shouldn’t either. It’s not harrassment or discrimination to NOT give someone a forum to talk about thier belief’s. If that was the case, every KKK leader out there could sue these colleges for not giving them the chance to spread their particular brand of hate and idiocy too.
Don’t even get me started on the ‘Vagina Monologues’….
As for people who are pro-war or pro-death penality…
I’m both, but I know it’s a sin and I expect to pay the price for it in the afterlife. However, I don’t think sending a pedophile or murderer to the executioner is in the same ballpark as murdering a helpless, innocent, fetus.
If it is, again, I’ll pay the price.
Since I’m human, and therefore flawed, I believe there are some sins worth committing.
Killing someone who threatens the life of innocents, while a sin, is a selfless act.
Killing a fetus is a selfish act.
Religion and politics can be kept separate. Just because I believe certain things doesn’t mean those beliefs should be forcefully applied to people who don’t share those beliefs.
So one can be pro-choice and Catholic.
I am ashamed to say that I have encouraged abortion in the past. I am not ashamed to say I was for the death penalty.
I was raised right but still chose to take the easy way. However, it is a good thing that I was raised with moral values because now that I am mature I am no longer for the death penalty (too many bad prosecuters) and I am definately against abortion. I should have known better regarding abortion but I didn’t believe the lengths prosecuters would go through to get a conviction!
Dakine, what is BC?
Rusty,
If you are Catholic, it is your job to convince others that abortion is wrong!
Really. So, you make the rules for the Catholic religion?
You proclaim to be a Christian and yet you are pro-death. So, GOD knit a baby in the womb and you, as a Christian, feel it is okay to remove said baby by the most vile means man can devise?
Soap, if you feel so strongly about it, why don’t you protest IUDs and Plan B as well?
I don’t make the rules for anybody. But there are a great many pro-choice Catholics who still believe that abortion is a great evil.
I think they’re all Massachusetts politicians.
Having had the privilege of hearing Mrs. Parker speak, I suspect that she would have been a much more interesting speaker than either Franken of Obama.
Related:
Voter’s Guide for Serious Catholics
There are too many anti-Catholics and anti-Catholic universities that claim to be Catholic.
That’s like saying “I believe it’s okay to rape children, but I don’t support it and it’s still evil.”
Rusty,
How would you react if I said I was anti-rape, yet I could not forcefully apply my beliefs on those who do not share them?
Hey, you stole my line!
You must have misspoken.
Name one Mass politico who thinks abortion is evil.
No, they can’t. The Church has always taught abortion was a great evil. There is absolutely no room for interpretation in that teaching.
As for war and the death penalty, there are parameters that must be met in order to engage in both – but neither war NOR the death penalty are in anyway prohibited by the Church.
Those Catholics who attend Mass and receive the Eucharist are obligated to do so free of sin (done via the Sacrament of Reconciliation, a/k/a Confession). It is a mortal sin to support something like abortion and receive the Eucharist.
Likewise, it is a sin to use artificial contraception if you are a Catholic.
What I don’t understand is why there’s a presumption – no, a demand – that the Catholic Church change Her teachings to suit the whims and will of the dissenting members of the Church…on everything from female clergy to abortion to homosexual issues. Especially when there are other denominations who have all those things and anyone who objects to the Church’s teachings is free to leave at any time.
Rusty, I think you have a valid point when you say
because it’s an opportunity to dispel misconceptions of our faith, and an opportunity to have people like Star Parker come and talk on the Catholic perspective.
But that doesn’t happen. Liberal speakers come, but no counterpoint is EVER offered.
At my alma mater they’ve even stopped holding Mass on Holy Days of obligation because of ONE complaint from a non-Catholic. So I cannot attend Mass there (where I also work) because it does not fulfill the requirements of *my* religious beliefs. Yet that seems to be no big deal to those who would otherwise bend over backward to accommodate the religious beliefs of others.
I’m assuming that those of Catholic faith think abortion to be sinful while still voting to protect abortion rights. That would give us Kennedy, Delahunt, and Kerry for starters.
It’s not the same. Rape is an act that is being perpetrated on another person. Abortion is the removal of a fetus which isn’t viable outside of the womb and therefore can’t be considered alive.
I don’t want to turn into LGM or have a bunch of people yelling at me or anything like that so I’ll pipe down and go away.
It’s still totally weaksauce that this school won’t allow a speaker who supposedly shares the beliefs of the Church they’re associated with. That’s nuts to me.
Amoeba (one cell) = alive
Fetus (billions of cells more complex than amoeba) = not alive
Yep, you got it right Rusty:
Rusty = lgm
Rusty,
While it is true that you are not culpable for the evil actions of others, you ARE culpable for your own evil or sinful actions, which includes what you support and how you vote.
Also, I’m not viable outside the earth’s atmosphere. Does that mean I’m not alive.
You need to read the Catechism and go to confession.
Now that is a perfect example of a straw man fallacy, Soap (unlike many of the times that term is thrown around).
Misrepresenting someone’s argument to make it easy to knock down.
Whether you want to agree with Rusty’s definition of life being a function of viablitiy outside of the womb, that has nothing to do with the number of cells an organism has.
Thank you for taking the time to show everyone how to do it properly.
And I still want to know why the fact that she is black is being highlighted when it doesn’t seem to be relevant at all to the controversy.
To expound on the amoeba theme for one post.
Remove an amoeba from its environment (fluid) and place it in air it will dye. So, therefore, an amoeba is not living.
Remove an adult human from its environment (air) and place him in fluid (water maybe) and he will die. So, adult humans are not living.
So cRusty a.k.a. lgm Jr., your stance on a fetus not being alive outside its current environment is just pure crap. It eats, sleeps, laughs, cries….. Oh, it does not breath air. So, if we remove it from the womb and subject it to air and it dies, that is proof it is not living. If I drown someone I do not like, what defense would I have? Yours?
There you go chap. I like straw.
P.S. a fetus is still a living human.
If that is your argument, Soap, I retract my straw man comment. It just wasn’t well expressed in #32.
On April 10th, 2008 at 11:48 am, On-my-soap-box said:
Soap, unless all those years of bio classes failed to teach me anything, I believe you are absolutely right.
The very definition of life is the ability of an organism to develop/multiply and change; cellular respiration, which requires a thriving heartbeat, is but a resulting factor of adaptive growth.
Chap,
I see your point. It was not well expressed in #32. Agreed.
So a college affiliated with the Catholic Church—which is decidedly conservative (you can’t believe in traditional theology and be liberal; it doesn’t work)—is refusing to allow conservative speakers?
I go to Saint Mary’s University in the same state, and you can see liberalism everywhere—one of the professors’ office doors is covered with socialist bumper stickers, and “War Is Not The Answer” and flyers whining that there aren’t enough gays on television can be seen on bulletin boards—but it’s nowhere as bad as this.
Rusty, if you truly and honestly believe something is evil then you have a moral duty to OPPOSE it. Not take money from people who perpetuate that evil or pass legislation to make it easier. These pro-choice “Catholic” politicos are either cowardly hypocrites or they just don’t think abortion is evil.
Back to the topic at hand. I got my JD from Catholic University and I think I know what’s been happening to Catholic-affiliated schools. Too many leftists/secularists have been coming in as students and as faculty to these schools. It would be fine if they respect the fact they are at a Catholic institution, but they don’t. I recall my lefty classmates getting mad over crucifixes getting placed in the lecture halls or at the crosses on display to mark the unborn killed through abortion. They got vocal about Catholicism “getting shoved down their throats” when no such thing was happening. When they didn’t like the conservative, traditionally-minded editor of the law school’s newspaper, they started to demand that an editor be elected to better represent their views. Our career placement office advertised summer internships with, you guessed it, Planned Parenthood. I kept saying, if you have a problem with Catholic values, why are you here?
Then you’ve got too many cowardly officials who either agree to some degree with the lefties or just don’t want to rock the boat.
In any case, it’s not just a problem with Catholic institutions. I understand the Christian moorings of other Protestant schools are being cut loose for the same reason. And didn’t I read somewhere that Brandeis, a Jewish school, had brought some rabid Israel-hater to campus?
If you want you kids to get a real Catholic education these days, send ‘em to Ave Maria University.
Speaking as a potential candidate for the Permanent Diaconate, I am blessed to have a very orthodox archdiocese with Archbishop Chaput here in Denver.
And I fully agree – the educational institutions should stop calling themselves Catholic when they refuse to abide by the teachings of the Church, and ignore the magisterium of the Church and the Catechism and Bible upon which it is based.
The Pope must start laying down the law, and enforcing it.
And as a 3rd degree Knight of Columbus, I am very willing to volunteer my services to the Pope.
Ugh. I do that too often. Sorry.
“Rusty, if you truly and honestly believe something is evil then you have a moral duty to OPPOSE it.”
Absolutely not. His moral duty is to stay true to his own moral beliefs, not to impose his beliefs upon others.
Personally, I am opposed to abortion, but I do not have the authority, nor SHOULD I have the authority, to impose that point of view on others. Neither should our government.
If this was any topic other than abortion, most here would agree.
Oh the tolerance and acceptance of others by the liberal demcraps never cease to amaze me. What a bunch of ill mannered, uneducated, lying, hypocritical, POS they are.
Sausage and Rusty, the two Catholic scholars in our midst. I realize Sausage you hate war and that’s fine, you can sit on your butt and let other people do the fighting for you so you don’t chip a nail. As for you Rusty, there should be no boundries? I don’t think so. Ever hear of love the sinner, not the sin? I truly believe that you cannot be a Catholic and be pro-choice regarless of what your liberal heroes may say.
As for you DAkine-you really are clueless aren’t you? I am not pro-death penalty. I am pro-life across the board but you assume you know me and you don’t. So why don’t you stick to what you know. Oh that’s right, you don’t know too much do you?
Rusty’s true moral duty is to leave excrement in a park and put a gps coordinates on where to find it.
Okay, if this is true, can I can commit murder without penalty? Again, if the principle underlying the above quote is to be followed, should anyone, including the government, be able to tell me that I can’t murder? If so, they would be imposing their POV and their will upon me. The principle underlying the above quote indicates that’s not to happen.
It seems to me that if we were to truly live by the above quote, we wouldn’t be in America anymore, but in some sort of wild west, free for all, anything goes world.
terrig, I made no assumptions about your beliefs…it was an honest question, and thanks for your rather graceless answer. Several Catholics on this board have suggested otherwise. If, as it has been suggested, that one cannot be pro-choice and also be a “true” Catholic, then intellectual honesty demands that the same be true regarding support of the death penalty and/or the use of artificial birth control.
On the St.Thomas web site they have their mission statement and vision and then under convictions one item says, “As a community we are committed to: We actively engage Catholic intellectual tradition, which values the fundamental compatibility of faith and reason and fosters meaningful dialogue directed toward the flourishing of human culture.” What does St. Thomas mean by Catholic Intellectual Tradition? Maybe they should say SOME Catholic Intellectual traditions. Doesn’t abortion directly interfere with “flourishing of human culture”. They should be supporting what Parker has to say.
Also, under convictions…”Diversity
We strive to create a vibrant diverse community in which, together, we work for a more just and inclusive society.” Yeah, right!
Well Dakine, you have been extremely rude to me more than once late last year when I did nothing to you. I decided then and there to be as gracious to you as you were with me. I know it’s childish but sometimes I get annoyed with high minded liberals such as yourself.
dakine, I’m pro dungeon
Personally, I am opposed to child pornography, but …
terrig, high minded maybe, but I’m no liberal. I will admit to leaning libertarian on social issues, however. I don’t recall the instances to which you refer, but I apologize for my rudeness nonetheless.
The Vatican should strip these schools of its Catholic affiliation. There is no room for pro-choice, pro-gay rights in a Catholic school, and it’s time to take the left on DIRECTLY, OPENLY and for us to back down.
My priest says there are only two REAL Catholic universities left in the country: one is the university in Steubensville, OH and there was some other small school in LA I think.
Yeah, part of it is Vatican II, part of it is these left-wing admins who are trying to force their views on the Church.
Just another reason for me to pour EVERY last ounce of energy and cent I have into STOPPING the democratic party for good.
I don’t believe her race had anything to do with this incident. Her sponsorship by the conservative group probably did. I find it hard to fathom that a so-called Catholic school would ban a talk critical of abortion. The vice president’s response is caustic and small-minded. I’ve noticed that liberals are usually the most doctrinaire in their responses to issues. Their cry of “freedom of speech” usually translates to “you’re free to speak as I believe”. Otherwise, they throw epithets and blunt objects.
You know that is an oxymoron right?
I think many of you were being unfair to Rusty. He was merely stating that an individual can consider themselves part of a religion without embracing every doctrinal aspect of that religion.
I’m forced to help him out here. Of those Catholics that are battling Rusty, which of you believe in actual transubstantiation and how many of you believe that it’s merely symbolic?
It will be hypocritical for any of you to answer symbolic.
Corkie,
It’s a good thing you’re here to help out any of us that are too weak to respond for ourselves. I think that Rusty is doing just fine! However he did not state what you stated. You can consider yourself part of anything but it does not make it so!
I believe in Transubstantiation. Are you Catholic and do not believe?
What do you think he stated? I read that Rusty disagreed with lgm and stated, “So one can be pro-choice and Catholic.”
I’m not Catholic. I just used transubstantiation as example because I know many Catholics (including an Italian priest) that don’t believe in it even if they think that they do. I don’t think it makes them any less of a Catholic.
Regarding transubstantiation – Christians who believe in it are called Catholics. Christians who don’t are called Protestants.
It’s a central tenet of Catholicism.
On April 10th, 2008 at 10:09 am, ThackerAgency said:
Just want to correct that: US-born Agassi is the most famous sports personality of Armenian extraction. Please don’t confuse Armenian with Iranian. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1152468/bio
If this is what you believe, then I have news for you. Many of the people that you think are Catholic are actually Protestant.
However, I think you are wrong. Just because something is a “central tenet” doesn’t mean that it’s a single criteria.
America’s left is totalitarian. America’s left is intolerant. Amercia’s left wants to control you and everything you care about.
Most of the looney left treat politics like a game, and they have no idea what they’re asking for. The Marxist/Stalinists in the Democrat Party only want power.
I believe in the actual transubstantiation of the bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ. It’d be stupid of me to think if it any other way if I am going to be a Catholic.
It isn’t a symbol for me. It is as real as one can get.
Of the differences between Protestants and Catholics, it is the Eucharist that is the central sticking point.
Most Protestants see it as symbolic. I know this because I was Lutheran until the age of 22.
The Catholic Church teaches that – after the Last Supper – Christ instituted Eucharist and it becomes His Body and Blood at each Mass. A perpetual, eternal reminder of His sacrifice.
Those Catholics who don’t believe that are in the wrong. Regardless of whether or not they sit in the pews on Sunday.
You phrased this interestingly. You seem to be saying that a Catholic is wrong to view it as symbolic.
You clearly did not state that anyone who views it as symbolic is not a Catholic.
I would agree with you.
Re: what I commented yesterday about Catholic schools:
Commenting on another thread here, I took the time to look up the story behind part of my comment:
Loretto Teacher Fired: Part 2: a Catholic high school expelled a student whose family was actively anti-abortion and had brought to the school’s attention that one of the teachers was volunteering at Planned Parenthood.
chapoutier, I graduated in 1995.
Yashmak, thank God for the Quakers and other Christians who didn’t buy that slavery was evil but they didn’t want to impose their views on others. Or that Jim Crow was evil, but they didn’t want to impose their will on others.
They may be CINOs – Catholic in name only – but their actions and beliefs contradict the Church’s teachings.
By the way, for anyone still reading here.
Survey of Catholics