Liver transplants for illegal aliens: Entitlements + open borders = disaster
I’ve written before about organ transplants for illegal aliens–and been attacked by the usual socialist suspects as cruel, heartless, and racist for questioning the wisdom of US public policy that indiscriminately allocates scarce health resources at taxpayer expense to illegal immigrants. The open-borders entitlement mentality has only grown deeper since the last time this issue went national with the case of Jessica Santillan. The ideologues who believe that America should be the medical welcome mat to the world have prevailed. Via the Los Angeles Times:
Ana Puente was an infant with a liver disorder when her aunt brought her illegally to the U.S. to seek medical care. She underwent two liver transplants at UCLA Medical Center as a child in 1989 and a third in 1998, each paid for by the state.
But when Puente turned 21 last June, she aged out of her state-funded health insurance and was unable to continue treatment at UCLA.
This year, her liver began failing again and she was hospitalized at County-USC Medical Center. In her Medi-Cal application, a USC doctor wrote, “Her current clinical course is irreversible, progressive and will lead to death without another liver transplant.” The application was denied.
The county gave her medication but does not have the resources to perform transplants.
Late last month Puente learned of another, little-known option for patients with certain healthcare needs. If she notified U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services that she was in the country illegally, state health officials might grant her full Medi-Cal coverage. Puente did so, her benefits were restored and she is now awaiting a fourth transplant at UCLA.
Puente’s case highlights two controversial issues: Should illegal immigrants receive liver transplants in the U.S. and should taxpayers pick up the cost?
The average cost of a liver transplant and first-year follow-up is nearly $490,000, and anti-rejection medications can run more than $30,000 annually, according to the United Network for Organ Sharing, which oversees transplantation nationwide.
Donor livers are also in scarce supply. In California, nearly 3,700 people are on a waiting list for livers, according to the network. Last year, 767 liver transplants were performed in the state. More than 90% of the organs were given to U.S. citizens.
Donor livers are generally allocated through a geographically based distribution system on the basis of how sick the patients are and how long they have been on the transplant waiting list.
Immigration status does not play a role in allocating organs.
Doctors and illegal alien patients rely on DHS incompetence and the deportation abyss to abet them:
If illegal immigrants inform the state in writing that U.S. immigration services “is aware of their presence and does not plan to deport them,” they could be eligible for full-scope Medi-Cal, said Norman Williams, spokesman for the state health department. Medical condition is one factor that would make immigrants eligible for coverage.
The immigrants send a form to Citizenship and Immigration Services, but the agency said it does not respond to patients or make any promises about their immigration status.
And the game continues, with illegal immigrants now voicing indignation at the inconvenience:
Jose Lopez said he came to the U.S. with his mother illegally as a child. Soon after, he contracted hepatitis A and received his first liver transplant. Eight years later, he got cirrhosis and received another transplant.
Both were performed at UCLA and paid for by the state.
As his 21st birthday approached, his mother, Maria Elena Lopez, searched for clinics that might agree to treat her son. She applied for Medi-Cal for him but has not received a response.
Her son turned 21 on Aug. 7. He said the UCLA doctors gave him extra medications to hold him over.
About a month later, his mother found the Roybal clinic, which provided Lopez with medication and monitored his care. Though his drugs never lapsed, his liver is still in rejection.
“I’m just mad,” he said from the Los Angeles apartment he shares with his parents. “You can’t just leave a person to die. That’s pretty much what they’re telling me: ‘You’re illegally here. We’re just gonna let you die.’ ”
He said he doesn’t blame UCLA for not wanting to treat him free, but added, “I was hoping for some miracle.”
Lopez just learned about the relief Puente received and said he may follow the same route. He hopes to return to UCLA for treatment.
Question: Would the Mexican government stand for illegal aliens on its soil demanding such entitlement?
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I realize UCLA & USC have a crosstown rivalry, but THIS is ridiculous…
Can someone explain to me why it’s legal for the US government to force US Taxpayers to pay benefits for illegals?
It’s a crime for them to be in our country. I guess the US government can turn their heads and say they can’t enforce the policy – that’s one thing. But to force US taxpayers to support them seems to me to be yet another criminal act.
I am thinking its more then probable he came into the country already infected with hep A, also Hep A is very treatable. So it is his and his mothers fault they let it get to the point that it destroyed his liver. And don’t try using that line you were afraid to go to the doctors because you’re illegal. That never stop illegal’s from using the ER as their primary care faculties .What I really want to know if this was a drug resistance form of hep a. And how many people did they pass it on to before they decided to leech off the American medical system for a new no I mean 2 liver transplants.
It is how Mexicans feel when they come into USA. They expect non Spanish speakers to learn to speak Spanish while they don’t want to learn English. Because they are proud to their culture. But if you look at their living condition, should they be proud of their third world condition to their living quarters? They are taught that California was, WAS!, part of Mexico but just stolen from them back in the 1800’s by the gringos. So they think it is their rights to come over across the border ILLEGALLY and demand all the benefits. That is why they all pop out babies as fast as they can, often time not with the same father or bother to get married to collect the welfare.
Of course, our MECHa mayor Villar, not Villaraigosa since the separation from his wife after cheating on her, is not helping the problem, he wants more to sneak over the border to collect the benefits.
All I can say is she had lived 21 years, it maybe cold hearted, but if her country will not help her, why should we? Since when did USA hospital become Mexico dropoffs for the sicks?
LGM, if you want to help illegal mexicans with their medical bill, I don’t think anyone on this comment section would stop you or WANT to stop you setting up a PRIVATE charity foundation to help them..
call it, ‘Organs for Anchors’
but when it is the TAXPAYERS dime, then it is another issue..
Again, you and i agree. I want our citizens, who follow the rule of law and deserve not to have illegal aliens get in line in front of them, to be given their turn first. But I have to disagree about our country and its citizens not being compassionate in total. Please dont let one instance where these criminals are getting ahead of law abiding citizens poison your total view.
Yes, its a pain. They dont deserve to be here, taking funds and services from others who pay taxes and follow the law. All of the illegals deserve to be sent home.
But compassion in our country goes far beyond this discussion. Even here, Michelle posts stories when American’s step up to show how compassionate we can be. Look from last week, where the Marines helped that child come here for heart surgery. Or how over in Iraq, we’re building schools, helping build their infrastructure back so they can advance. Look when the tsunami hit overseas, and the outpour of aid we sent. Katrina hit N.O., and the response from our country was overwhelming. Those of us who believe there is still good in this country, and those who feel it is this very trait that puts us head and shoulders above others, dont condone illegal border crossers, and think there should be a penalty for doing so..but, I believe the bible says “do good unto those of whom it is deserved, when it is in the power of thine hand to do so”. Apolgies, its been years..but i remember the phrase, just not the verse and chapter Notice its about who deserves it. They don’t, pure and simple.
Illegals bring all kinds of things across the border. Their crime. Communicable diseases. Their non-assimilating culture. This site posts those in great detail. They all should go home. But neither can we leave people to die in the streets. We are better than that.
Like i said when i first posted…a tough issue, and one i’m torn about. I dont have any easy answer, my friend. If i did, this wouldnt be so complicated. We can all come up with our opinions, but…none of it really solves the underlying problem until the borders are made less pourous.
We do need to keep fighting the good fight. We need a secure border. We need immigration enforcement, and not this catch and release garbage. We need people in our government, and our communities, to step up and protect our way of life, before it all becomes part of Mexico.
Dunno. Thats all I can say. Sorry for the long post, but I couldnt wrap that up in just a paragraph.
As a brand new participant in this forum I hesitate to share this because I don’t want to appear too whiney. But this issue strikes close to home for me.
Due to a motorcycle accident two years ago I have been placed on permanent disability retirement. My healing is complicated by the onset of type II diabetes. My insurance premiums under COBRA are almost 500 dollars a month, roughly 1/3 of my income. I’m signed up with my state’s vocational re-hab facility in order to find a job that accomodates my disability and allows me to provide extra income for myself and my teen daughter.
When someone who is not even a citizen exhibits the arrogance and ingratitude of the people mentioned in the article above I react emotionally.
Maybe I’m just jealous……lol
or maybe move to California?
Naaaahhhhhh…………
Woww, all I can say is that I’m glad you chose to write and not to practice medicine.
http://channoa-barelylegal.blogspot.com/
My wife works in the Medical field and the attitude of entitlement that she gets from the people that we are subsidizing, is phenomenal. Boy, do they give her crap when she insists that they bring someone who speaks English with them on their next visit. It’s almost funny until you really think about how few people really try to assimilate to this country when they emigrate. 25 years from now you won’t recognize the place.
Liberal progressives believe there ought to be no advantage to being a citizen, not even over non-citizens who break the law. It just isn’t fair.
Doesn’t US citizenship confer any rights, privileges or perquisites not shared by non-citizens? The liberal goal seems to be a devaluation of the status.
Instead of greatness, they aim for an America that doesn’t make other nations look bad by comparison. As if greatness and humility were mutually exclusive.
From the UNOS,The United Network for Organ Sharing (UNOS), 16,857 are on the Organ Waiting List as of June 1, 2007. Of these numbers 705 are children. To give away not one liver but multiple livers to someone who shouldn’t be here anyway, is simply murder.
Ben Franklin Quote
A woman asked after the Constitutional Convention “what have you given us” Ben Franklin Answered back ” a republic if you can keep it”
FAILED!
Well, if you are “cruel, heartless, and racist” for questioning this Michelle, I am too. I guess that puts me in pretty good company.
Simple answer. No. Try the country you were born in.
Equivalent question: Could a US citizen denounce his citizenship, pick up another country’s citizenship, then apply for $500,000 in medical expenses in the USA by claiming they are an illegal alien (after breaking into our country of course)? I think not, but it gets to the issue here.
I think what strikes me the most about this story…
These two individuals have already had FIVE transplants….
Thats FIVE citizens who have died while awaiting their turn..
And now, in order for them to live, TWO more will DIE….
May seem heartless, but SEVEN citizens dieing because these two are here illegaly?
I think an ‘other side of the border’ transplant will prove more cost effective.
I would deport, and let Mexico help her if it can. If a choice has to be made because there arent enough organs to satisfy the need (which there arent) then it MUST go to a US citizen, not someone who has broken, and now is manipulating our laws. For those that find this not compassionate, how about some compassion for the US citizen that isnt going to get a transplant because it is being given to an illegal alien? Why doesn’t the need for compassion extend to our own citizens first? As a taxpayer, the needs of my countrymen and women come first, period.
Unfortunately the many responses to the neuron-depleted lgm have only demonstrated to the newbies on this site how quickly a troll can hijack a thread.
Problem is their oil is carp and has a high sulfer content. The USA is one of the few countries that can refine their oil.
For those of you who would like to send sick illegal aliens back to Mexico I would agree however its not as easy as it sounds. Mexicans demand cash on the barrel head to take back their own sick citizens. As an example one of the hospitals here in Phoenix arranged for a sick illegal to be transferred back to Mexico. The Mexican transport company wanted the ambulance driver to hand over $3000 dollars in cash or he would not take the patient. This is not an isolated incident, it happens daily when trying to send Mexicans back to Mexico. The entire country of Mexico is corrupt.
As for the government and healthcare- they should have nothing to do with it. I have had two patients who died as a result of government interferrence in their care. When it comes to healthcare the government is not your friend!
Short answer to the “compassion” argument: we are a very compassionate nation, but our compassion cannot be limitless. Progressives aka liberals pretend that the wealth needed to pay for illegals’ health care is limitless —even though it obviously comes from taxes paid by citizens and those who are working here legally.
Progressives aka liberals will never say where this infinite compassion is to end.
Perhaps someone here will try?
I have been looking in the Constitution and I do not see anywhere about a right to health care. I see a right to the persuit of happiness. So I ask, How do you persue happiness? You work for it. You live an honest law abiding life. Does coming to this country illegally sound like an honest law abiding life? Just my thought.
Don’t worry about a few liver transplants.
The FedsOur taxes have been taking care of the problem of injuredpassengersillegal aliens in vans rolling over while trying to escape the Border Patrol:And now do you all see why the liberals want socialized medicine?
One time, when i was invited to go to a birthday party at a illegal alien’s house, Their mentallity and lifestyle was distubing to me. (i did leave early by the way!)
They don’t speak english(but have been here for 10 years), and in their house, from the music, to tv, it was all in their language. Lucky me, i’m multilingual!
Their house is upper middle class style, with all the latest eletronics you can imagine! Their 11 year old girl has a 400$ COACH purse!
But their kids also eat for free in school as if they were low income family, they get free health care also for low income families.
And they bragged about not having to pay ANY TAX. because they get paid cash or personal checks for their labor work.
What surprised me the most is how proud they are of themselves for being so smart about taking advantage of this country!
All i could see in my mind was that 11 year old illegal imigrant girl, walking up to school cafeteria with a 400$ COACH purse, while text messaging on her cute Motorola Razr to get her FREE meal for low income kids…
I knew that kind of stuff went on and still does… But to be proud of it? And brag abou it? And teach your kids that?
I have donated all usable organs when I crater on my drivers license. There are millions of people who need hearts, livers, lungs, bone grafts, skin, eyes etc. I feel it is the most wonderful gift a person can do when they die. But, when I seen the way this ungrateful illegal feels he is mad when he can’t get numerous livers some American who has waited for years to get, I am thinking or re-thinking my gift. He is ‘demanding’ a liver a mother, father, son, or daughter has waiting years for. American has the most generous people in the world and help people daily, as seen by our military helping the child with the heart problem. This really makes me mad to see these people bitching and demanding at ‘us’.
L
My argument on compassion is that it is an individual choice. It is not the business of government. Churches and Charities fill those gaps.
Systems, like the organ transplant system must follow certain rules, and these rules should best help those in the system. Illegal Aliens belong to a different system. They should get and give their organs to that system.
GodblessedtheUSA –
We are not compassionate, just pathetic saps. What country treats the “immigrants” better than its own citizens? Only the USA.
The term “anchor baby” has always confused me. Is it only for illegal immigrants who have a child born on U.S. soil or is it for any person who isn’t a legal U.S. citizen? Does it include people who are here on work/H1B visas?
On April 14th, 2008 at 12:47 pm, lgm said:
The difference here is that individual property and free speech rights exist here that do not exist in China. The Communist Party in China “own” the land have no incentive to keep the environment clean, and the people have no voice to air their grievances on government mismanagement of environmental concerns.
American businesses, however, even without expensive, but well-meaning environmental regulations, have incentives to be better environmental stewards (i.e. keeping their own property clean, not polluting the environment for fear of public boycots, etc.). The combination of free market and free speech is what would keep businesses in line in a deregulated business environment.
I don’t think her point is that we should adopt Mexican immigration policies, so much as Mexico is hypocritical for enacting and enforcing their more stringent policies while expecting us to look the other way on people breaking our less stringent immigration laws.
This article makes me want to vomit, but I just had my gallbladder taken out last week.
I may be wrong but I read that the offspring of Consular officers born in the USA are not eligible for citizenship. So a Mexican officals wife who gives birth here in the USA cannot claim citizenship for the kid but an illegal alien giving birth here can claim citizenship for their illegal spawn.
#131 CORRECT they have to apply to be naturalized.
Why are we complaining, there is such a surplus of donor organs thousands are wasted every year so why not give them to illegal immigrants, it is not like there is a long list of leagal citizens, and foreign nationals waiting for leagally sponsored health care from the U.S.
Really though I think the situation is getting worse by the year.
If it’s within the realm of possibility for an illegal alien to receive any of my eventual anatomical “donations” I am seriously considering either (1)tearing up my donation card or (2)not dying.
#94 lgm said:
I can only speak for myself, but I have largely read, here at MM, that the majority of readers believe that we should hit back against our enemies with as much equal force as they dish out…if we intend to win. It appears that you construe this attitude as “tit for tat” just because evil nations do it too?
I think that this is part of your debating problem. Instead of placing existing arguments into “larger contexts,” try putting them into “equal” contexts to see if your argument holds water to begin with.
Example. When MM points out the absurdity of a nation placing the rights of illegal aliens before those of its own citizens, and then highlights that absurdity with the irony that the offending nation (Mexico) wouldn’t dream of extending the same gracious yet absurd courtesy; your opposing argument would be much stronger if you were able to detail WHY you believe the US should place the rights of illegal aliens before those of its own citizens, rather than throwing MM’s point of irony into a “larger context” which isn’t quite applicable anyway.
As a mathematician, perhaps it would save you time and embarrassment if you diagrammed your points into logical constructs (ie. if, and, or, then, therefore, etc.) before you pressed the submit button.
And don’t worry lgm, we’re really pulling for you over here!
#133 you’re kidding right?
On April 14th, 2008 at 3:16 pm, BrianNY said:
I can only speak for myself, but I have largely read, here at MM, that the majority of readers believe that we should hit back against our enemies with as much equal force as they dish out…if we intend to win
Personally, i would choose whats behind Door #2…overwhelming, crushing force that doesnt allow your enemy to strike twice.
Just my 2 cents
The double standards are just insane . If our country treated illegals as Mexico does . We would be in such better shape.As a Nation we need to look after our own .
I think you take things out of context. Is it okay to torture detainees? Well, if you consider waterboarding “torture” (noting that waterboarding is/was an integral part of US military training as part of the POW resistance training program use by the USMC. Now, these terrorists have the NYTimes, liberal legislators, lawyer groups and activist groups, and, apparently, lgm, for their POW training.
Some would consider basic training to be a form of torture. I fully believe some seminars I have been coerced into attending were torture. Where is the line? What are the priorities? Is it torture to live in conditions in Gitmo that surpass anything you experienced as a free terrorist? Maybe.
How do you define war crimes? Are there mutilations occurring? No. Are there beatings occurring. No. We have waterboarding and sleep deprivation. I got more sleep deprivation from grad school. Are the terrorists signatories on the Geneva Convention? It does take two to tango.
That is the reason I put the term in quotes. People don’t necessarily want to repeal environmental safeguards here, but when they become outrageously expensive for little return, some laws should be reconsidered. If it costs as much money and economic prosperity to go from 90 to 95% clean as it did to go from 10 to 90%, is it cost effective or even logical to proceed?
Look at what the use of ethanol is doing to the food prices. Look at what regional gas formulations are doing to gas prices. My state, the People’s Republic of Massachusetts, applies California auto emission rules to cars in MA, without regard to differences in climate, geology and the interaction between the two, never mind the crackpot orientation of most California legislators. As such, our cars are more expensive and we cannot get some cars, such as Diesels, which would give us excellent fuel mileage, just when we need it most. Look at the taxation of Diesel fuel, on which most, make that all, of our goods are transported. Priced any food lately? Anything, for that matter? How does that taxation, which is really a secret tax, passed on to every citizen through price increases, help the U.S.? Do the positive effects of more money in the general fund offset the deleterious effects of the higher food prices etc., which affect the poor most directly?
How is it that gross polluters like China and India are exempted from the Kyoto agreement which the left wants to saddle us with? China puts out more greenhouse gases than the U.S., but we are the bad guy, right? Crush our economy while letting them run roughshod over the environment. Why don’t the greenies go there? More bang for the buck, I would imagine. Oh yeah, the Chinese won’t put up with that. For that matter, why does China get passes on human rights, copyright law infringement etc.? Wouldn’t it just be more effective to give them our technology? Again, more bang for the buck.
Seriously, what thinking U.S. citizen would go to Mexico for medical treatment? Nobody since the laetrile debacle. If it were that good, the Mexicans would stay home to get it, thus rendering the problem moot.
Non citizens should not be coming here trying to take advantage of our largesse. Emergency treatment is one thing, but years long, multiple organ transplants are another. If they want coverage here, then they should enter the country legally, become citizens, and buy medical coverage like the rest of us.
What leget said goes for me as well. I need to change my driver’s license.
Why transplant the liver from one person to another when it’s cheaper to transplant the whole illegal alien from one country to another?
#137 abstract said:
Well, then it sound like you REALLY want to win, and I can’t argue with that!
There are numerous post here righteously supporting the claim of all the world to break into this country and receive hugely expensive medical care out of the pockets of U.S. taxpayers.
The gulf between myself and persons pushing this agenda is so great that I am not sure that it can be resolved by peaceful political means.
The liberal argument has always sounded to me like: “It’s worth conceding victory to the scumbags, because it’s really not worth sinking down on the ground to fight the scumbags.”
Good luck teaching that to your liberal children out on the playground!
Mexico should be forced to pay the tab. Anyone or group who wants to help, that would be OK.
To make American tax payers pay the health care cost of the third world is wrong.
Invade Mexico now, and take their oil fields. This could pay for illegal aliens deportation, and a lot of the money would go to families with individuals murdered by illegal aliens. Add jail costs rebates to Americans too.
FOLLOW THE $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
SOMEONE or ONESSSSS are benefiting besides the illegals. I wonder who they are!!!!?????
When are US taxpayers – the $$$$$$$$$$$$$ “givers” going to wise?
#136 Yes, I was being sarcastic.
Brian, I would absolutely HATE to lose when the stakes are high like this. And besides…get it right the first time, as my mother would say.
Sounds like a clockwork orange type of torture to me. Bring on the waterboard.
No argument there. The five day Anaheim medical conference I went to last year was torture.
Lemme get this straight. Legal, U.S. citizens have footed the bill for THREE (about to be FOUR) transplants and we’re STILL the bad guy? I have an idea – how about skipping a little further north to Canada. After all, Michael Moore says everyone there gets everything FREE and life is just grand. Oh, that’s right – Canada is allowed to protect its borders.
BrianNY said (#144):
This is another liberal point: torture does not make us stronger. It does not help us win. We won WWII without torture. We won the revolution without torture, and that was a close call. (George Washington forced his troops not to retaliate against British troops for war crimes committed by the British. That gave his army strength.)
The scumbags are weak largely because they are scumbags. They do not have the strong economy that would come from property rights and the rule of law. They do not have loyal citizens that would come from wide respect. They have a (relatively) small number of lowlife crazies. We are strong because we have a strong economy — property rights & rule of law — and because we are loyal to our country because we believe it is just. Let’s keep it that way.
If not Canada, then surely she could have gotten better medical care by sneaking into Cuba, and without the language barrier. And at least in Cuba they would have gotten it right the first time and they wouldn’t have needed four transplants, unlike our dysfunctional system in crisis.
I REALLY hope people do not use this story as a reason to not be organ donors. Please, the chances your organs will benefit a citizen who really needs them are still much greater than them going to an ungrateful illegal alien.
I’m thinking about joining this group. Does anyone have any information or experience with it?
http://www.lifesharers.com/
Can’t have it both ways “oneofthem!”
lgm really is disconnected from this planet. How does he send his messages here? Must also be reading revisionist leftwing history about the wars too. So naive, so ignorant, so dangerous.
Can’t we bus the illegals with bad livers to Canada?
I get it–so if I ever need a liver trasnplant I should do the following:
1. Renounce my citizenship in the US.
2. Become a citizen of a foreign country.
3. Illegally cross back into the US
4. Declare my illegal status to the government
5. Receive free liver.
Awesome!
#153
I really doubt I will change my gift, but this thing about an illegal saying ‘we’re just gonna let me die’ because I’m illegal made me really bent out of shape. He has no right to be here in the first place and sucking off taxpayers. This worm got two previous livers that two previous possible American’s could have had and DIED and now he demands another one that a possible American will die to give the liver to him. How do the two previous families feel about Lopez? There are precious few organs for the many who need them. I feel my gift should go to a person who is a citizen of the United States of America. I don’t think I can say who gets them though, they go in a bank. Well, I vented and still don’t feel better about this gosh awful mess.
L
George Washington shot deserters. Traitors were hung by the neck until dead. Sedition during the Civil War was punished with imprisonment and deportation.
Kinder, gentler times.
LGM you sure we won WWII without torture were you there?
The Geneva convention was done in 1949 after WWII why?
Pick up a book before posting!
I’m sick, siCK SICK of these illegal aliens getting everything. My son in law had a heart attack two years ago, and it sat them back so far that they had to file a bankruptsy,(I forget the chapter # but it’s the kind where they make payments) Anyway, they can’t even use their tax return, the court is holding it. If he had been an illegal, and not a citizen, there would have been no problem.
Guess I had better go get my gun, and cross, as I am already feeling bad about illegal immigration.
ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!
Are comment postings delayed?
Well, guess not. I will post my original comment. It won’t be long before white Americans are called on by dhimmicrats to be deported out of the USA.
It almost makes you want to burn your own birth certificate, and see if your own economic status IMPROVES.
They say “crime doesn’t pay”…. well it sure is doing pretty well for 25 million invaders, who are commiting identity theft, fraud every day they are here.
As the grand-daughter of a LEGAL immigrant this sort of crap really burns me.
Granted…he was 3 when he came over( from Chernigov Ukraine in 1914)but his family still had to go through sorts of hoops to get here.
My grandfather wasn’t a patriotic American. I honestly don’t think he appreciated that if it wasn’t for this great Land he and his would have ended up on the lethal end of an SS rifle.
That said you would have never known he was foreign born. He assimilated but good.
He never asked for “special treatment”.
HOW DARE someone that is here illegally demand ANYTHING!
What’s good for the goose…
The Boo Freaking HOO article of all times. The illegal invaders are suffing the most in this slowing economy. My hanky is all filled with tears for them. NOT.
Illegal immigrants are a strange lot.
They risk life and limb to leave countries that can’t provide them the most basic services. But, they still love those countries.
They come here. They contribute very little in relation to what they receive in benefits (free medical care, free education for their kids) But, all they can do is complain that they’re mistreated, oppressed & generally not given enough. If you point out that they’re doing pretty well considering that they’re breaking our laws by being here, they act as if you’re the one doing something wrong.
The problem is far worse. Medi cal pays for liver transplants in citizens, prisoners and illegals who have destroyed their organ with alchohol. It is probably the most common reason for the surgery. Over 90 percent of these patients GO BACK TO DRINKING! Now there is a great way to spend the tax payers money
#151 lgm:
I agree with some of your sentiments, but not the reality.
My brother-in-law, who began his 20 year Navy career as a pilot, described his survival training in Minnesota as one of the toughest stretches in his overall training. (This included cold and water torture, sleep deprivation and smoke blown into his mouth and up his nostrils.) His point was, torture is such an extreme and forceful method of extracting information by an enemy, the Navy found it useful to train their pilots how to fight it and try to hold onto sensitive information for as long as possible.
Also, wasn’t it September 11th Mastermind, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, who cracked within seconds of being water boarded? I believe the CIA, including Michael Scheuer, admitted that this led to sensitive information which disrupted other Al Qaeda operations.
I can only speak for myself, but I guarantee you that there are thresholds of pain that will extract information from me; information that I would never disclose under normal levels of discomfort.
I guess this depends upon what your definition of torture is. I have read amazing stories of what Japanese soldiers did to our fighting men, and what our guys gave right back to them during the island fighting. There are also amazing stories of treatment handed out and given back to the Germans during the battles of Hurtgen Forrest and the Bulge, including the famous “chapel incident.” I would classify all of these incidents as torture, indeed. And I happen to know that we won that war.
The torture exacted upon Continental soldiers and their supporters (in the prison ships docked off of today’s Brooklyn Navy Yard) was beyond hellish. Are you telling me that such treatment was not returned in kind when the brothers, fathers, uncles and friends of these American prisoners were able to catch British troops off guard? Documented accounts of how civilians who supported the revolution and civilians who supported the Crown treated each other makes your supposition that “torture was not practiced during the Revolutionary War” unbelievable to me. Those were very hard times!
I contend that they are weak because they adhere to an extreme arm of their religion which dismisses modernity and believes in knocking down rather than building up.
Agreed.
Rather, like most totalitarian regimes, their citizens “loyalty” is forced under duress and submission.
Debatable.
As well as generations of resolute Americans who fought, and some who died, to deliver us what we enjoy today.
I contend we are capable of maintaining all that you detail above AND knocking our enemies, who are committed to destroying us, into Kingdom Come…even when they insist on fighting us from behind their women and children.
Case in point – I have a cousin who was assigned as the officer in charge of security for Associate Justice Robert H. Jackson, Chief American Prosecutor at the Nuremberg Trials. Just seven months earlier, my same cousin was a leading officer in charge of knocking the entire German city of Aachen down, because Hitler had ordered every last man, woman and child to hold it. Rather than engage in street battles with 12 year olds, the US Army decided to flatten the entire city and continue advancing towards Berlin.
My cousin often exemplifies for me the very best of America. He was able to display the highest principles which typify the US Armed Forces, while at the same time, showing no mercy towards the worst of the world who wish to do us harm.
Must be a reason I finally got in. Have enjoyed reading ALL of the comments and have been hoping to be able to put my brain to work as everyone else has. Thanks for the “welcomes”!
This is such an important issue. Many legal citizens here in the country can’t or have a serious issue about getting healthcare or coverage and I think that helping our own citizens with this ever growing health care problem should be more of a concern than people who see us as just some one who will give them a liver for free. I think the whole issue boils down to common respect. If people want to come here for an opportunity to get better, and to work hard and to live, well they need to become citizens first. If they cant respect our laws how can we respect them as people in need to be treated? Its almost as if you were to barge into a hospital demand treatment… without filling in your medical history / information first, and saying treat me now!
Que?
Just when I think your posts couldn’t get any more absurd, you prove me wrong.
I am glad you aren’t a History teacher, although I bet your math students get a lot of your political ideology thrown in anyway, right?
When we find ourselves discussing torture on a posting about illegal aliens receiving organ transplants, we know we have been thread jacked.
Please don’t give him the satisfaction.
I hear they have the best health care system ever.
mom2jack
I understand what you are saying. I will continue to give platelets
every few times a month. But I can’t help but be serious about the organ donorship activity. I will not allow this travesty to continue with my organs in the deal. You know that here in MN, they’d never permit me to say “give my organs to legal citizens only”. I’m angry, very angry .
but never “bitter”.
how’s that border fence coming? geez…
On April 14th, 2008 at 5:57 pm, BrianNY said:
#151 lgm:
Great point, BrianNY! After all, the Tories did not hightail it off to Canada when the Revolution ended simply because they liked an extended cold season.They were driven out of this country under the fear of physical harm and retribution.
I’m late to this party, but here is more of the article : That break can be life-threatening for people like Puente. “It doesn’t matter if I’m undocumented, ” she said. “They should take care of me at UCLA for the rest of my life because I’ve been there since I was a baby.”
Talk about a sense of entitlement!
Whole story here:
http://ktla. trb.com/news/ ktla-liverdebate ,0,2370534. story
I wonder if this illegal alien got liver problems from excessive drinking? A lot of drunk illegal alien drivers around
Can we get someone on this board with a liberal viewpoint and have a meaningfully discussion based on fact instead of nonsense?
Having been given the give of life from a thoughtful and generous donor (and family) eight years ago, I know all to well what being on a wait-list is like. I feel strongly that priority should be given to Legal Residents and Citizens regarding organ transplant.
Is this just a left coast thing or are we ALL on the hook for these? As a Georgia resident with a large illegal population, I wish I could annotate my organ donor card (part of my driver’s license) to specify “US citizens ONLY”! My dad died at 59 waiting for a liver transplant.
BrianNy thanks for your post #171. You did a fine job of covering the argument especially with the British Prison ships (one of the first things I thought of about the treatment of American patriots).
My wife and I are both organ donors and we stand a good chance of one of our migrant illegal invader drunk drivers knocking either one or both of us off (probability increases during the growing season). Now I find we would not only have our estate pillaged by the government to go to illegal health care or benefits our harvested organs stand just as high a chance of going to an unwelcome guest instead of an American. I am finding it harder and harder to remain civil when I see these illegal invaders in our local community.
It makes me wonder if I can put a perference on my organ donor card to say that my organs are only available to U.S. Citizens.
Good Point Boomer #185. I’m waiting for Mayor Antonio Vi Agra Gossa to give his state of the city address. Let me guess, “it’s for the children.” Our state is drowing in debt and instead of fixing the Illegal Invader problem (that is mainly the cause of all our debt) they throw our taxes at the little anchor babies hoping they won’t grow up like their illegal fathers to join gangs. It won’t work, but the little illegal tots and the anchor babies will get their funds.
I am tired. But I will continue to fight on. Sovereignty Is worth fighting for.
To answer some points:
There have been several “Geneva conventions”, some before WWII and the last in 1949. The 1949 round was in response to atrocities committed by our enemies. Notable US actions that became outlawed in 1949 include the bombing of Dresden, which served little military purpose.
Of course our enemies did bad things to us. On the whole, the US has tried to not to commit immoral acts even against our enemies. Some point out that our record is not perfect, but it is good. George Washington is famous for ordering his troops not to torture British captives. There were “conservative” colonials who insisted on torturing anyway.
BrianNY said: (#170)
I agree with you but go further. They are also down to earth scumbags engaging in ordinary unreligious corruption (bribery, theft, …). The Mullas have destroyed the economy of Iran through corruption.
MikeA331 said (#182):
BrianNY is able to argue with liberals. Read his posts to find out how it’s done.
I agree with you 100% John!
I think I’ll write: “ORGAN DONOR TO LEGAL US CITIZENS ONLY” on my driver’s license in black marker. I don’t like the idea of my Grade A organs replacing some illegal alien’s (READ: criminal’s) jacked-up liver, heart, whatever rather than a legal American citizen with insurance–especially if my organs go towards fixing their anchor baby spawn.
I kind of have this thing about NOT wanting my organs sustaining a future generation of criminals, if you can’t already tell.
made it
Neat. I can barely afford my insurance premiums but there are those who think they deserve free $500,000 dollar surguries. To add insult to injury they expect me to pay for that as well.
I sat in a Cardiac Intensive Care Unit for 30 days last year as my uninsured 27 year-old daughter fought to survive a heart attack. She needed a heart transplant or an LVAD. There was no hospital that would take her, anywhere, even though she was a good candidate otherwise.
She had worked since she was 15, but was turned away from medical services that illegals can qualify.
This is not justice.
I have just finished reading “While Europe Slept” (must read for those who are concerned with the rapid Islamization of Europe) and I found many similarities between Europe and their immigration policy with Muslims and our own situation with illegal aliens from Mexico. If we continue with the same foolish policies that are in place today I fear that my grandchildren will grow up in the United States of Aztlan.
Welcome aboard.
Carlos Slim, the Mexican billionaire is worth an estimated $60 billion dollars according to Forbes. He could set up a trust fund of $1 billion for health care of illegal immigrants and not even lose sleep over the “chump change”.
Thacker Agency….Please!
“a whole nother level”
Justing testing to see if the current registration process works. Had registered much earlier but never got confirmation.
So I am glad this one got through.
Hi, to everyone.