The Philly Showdown: Barocky vs. Hillarocky; Update: Hillary spanks Obama: People “don’t cling to religion when Washington isn’t listening to them;” Update: Obama grilled on Wright (“I’ve disowned him”), Hillary grilled on Tuzla (“I’ll try and get more sleep”); Update: Obama: “I revere the American flag;” Update: Obama grilled on William Ayers connection, counters Hillary with Bill Clinton pardon of Weather Underground terrorists
Scroll down for updates/liveblogging…It’s Gaffe-a-paloooza: All lies, botches, and loons on the table–from Jeremiah Wright to the Tuzla lies to William Ayers to Bill Clinton’s terrorist pardons to Hillary’s baking cookies snipe…Vid: The Ayers attack…Vid:The Jeremiah Wright attack
***
It starts at 8pm tonight. Hillary Clinton’s message: I am not a pathological liar! Barack Obama’s message: I am not a pathological snob!
Your referees: Charlie Gibson and George Stephanopoulous.
I know: Graooooaan.
The ABC News pre-fight hype:
With the last primaries six weeks behind them and the Pennsylvania contest only six days ahead, Wednesday’s Democratic presidential debate in Philadelphia gives Sens. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., and Barack Obama, D-Ill., a last chance to settle old and new scores heading into a week that could make or break their presidential aspirations.
Watch the Democratic Presidential Debate tonight from 8-10 p.m. ET on the ABC television network.
For the first time since February 26, Clinton and Obama will take the stage at Philadelphia’s National Constitution Center, in the debate co-hosted by ABCNews, WPVI and the Center, and moderated by ABC’s Charles Gibson and George Stephanopoulos.
Each candidate will try to seize the upper hand and move past the campaign controversies that have directed a negative course in the race to the Democratic nomination in recent days.
Through surrogates and spin, the two Democratic challengers have highlighted each other’s misstatements and missteps this week, each trying to seize the momentum in these final contests, and place doubts in the minds of voters and superdelegates about their opponent’s potential strength against Republican presumptive nominee, Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz.
Appearing Wednesday on ABC NewsNow Politics Live, Republican strategist Matthew Dowd warned that the candidates’ tone on the debate stage matters more than any specific remark or exchange.
And though it’s difficult to predict what tone the candidates will strike this evening, for both candidates, the debate stakes are high: Clinton will look to build on her five point lead in the Keystone State while Obama will try to match his debate performance with the poll numbers that show him surging past Clinton in the areas of trustworthiness and electability.
Stay tuned for the liveblog here.
Allah’s dubbed it the “There will be blood” debate. Hot Air will also have live coverage and vid highlights and lowlights.
***
8:10pm Eastern. Gibson’s first question. You have each disproportionately appealed to different factions in the party. Cites Mario Cuomo’s call for the loser to be the VP. Why not join each other on a ticket? (Laughter.)
Obama: This has been an extraordinary journey. It’s premature to talk about VP ticket. In Denver, the Democrat party will come together. We have no choice.
Gibson cites Article II, Section I of the Constitution. “If it was good enough for Colonial times, why not now?” ABC has discovered the Constitution!
Hillary: I will go anywhere in the country to make the case [for whomever wins.] I’ve seen the damage of the Bush years. I’ve seen the pain.
Has she FELT their pain? Say it! Say it!
8:14pm Eastern. Gibson brings up BitterClingGate. “Do you understand that some people in this state find that patronizing?”
Obama: No doubt that I can see how people have been offended. Not the first or last time I say something that’s been mangled up. Let me be clear: People are going through very difficult times, even before the housing crisis.
People run to religion when government doesn’t function.
8:17pm Eastern. Hillary goes in for the anti-Cling kill: I am the granddaughter of a man who was a factory worker in Scranton. Went to church. They don’t “cling to religion when Washington isn’t listening to them….I can see how people would be offended at taken aback.”
8:19pm Eastern. Stephanopoulous brings up Hillary’s spat with Bill Richardson: Do you think Obama can beat John McCain? Hillary dodges.
Stephy presses here. Can Obama win?
Hillary: “Yes, yes, yes. But I think I can do better.”
Stephy: Can Hillary win?
Obama: Absolutely and I’ve said it before. Segues back to BitterClingGate. It would be hard for me to be condescending to people of faith since I am a person of faith. I’ve reached out more than any other campaign. The problem with politics is typical…take something and twist it and beat it to death…Obama refers to Hillary baking cookies/Tammy Wynette soundbite…and people attacked her as “elitist” and I remember watching it and thinking, “that’s not who she is.”
Hillary ain’t having it. She goes after him again on the remarks. Blathers about her “passion for empowering people” and her respect for voters.
8:25pm Eastern. Gibson moves to race and Jeremiah Wright. You say you never heard him say the things he said from the pulpit, but you rescinded his invite for his invocation a year ago. Why did it take you more than a year to disassociate yourself?
Obama: Understand. I’m talking about the comments that ended up on YouTube. These comments were objectionable, they’re not comments I believe in…the church and the body of Wright’s work and ministries were not represented by the comments that ended up on TV. And so, what I think I tried to do in the speech here was speak to a broader context…there is anger in the African-American community…true in other communities as well…my candidacy represents the opportunity to move beyond it…we have to connect people…that’s what I’ve done with our campaign…
8:29pm Eastern. Hillary gleefully gets to claim again that she would have walked out of Wright’s church. Obama can barely contain himself from rolling his eyes. Hillary: “You can’t choose your family, but you can choose your pastor.” Hey, that sounds familiar, doesn’t it?
Stephy: Do you think Rev. Wright loves America as much as you do? And what will you do when those sermons are played again and again and again?
Obama: Doesn’t answer the first question. Re. second question: “If it isn’t this, it’ll be something else.”
8:33pm Eastern.
Obama: I’ve disowned him. Stephy: You’ve disowned him? Obama: Awkward pause. “Disowned the comments he’s made.”
Botch! Botch!
Stephy: But do you think he’s as patriotic as you?
Obama: Well, this is someone who was a former Marine.
Hillary: On the attack again. Mentions Farrakhan, the church bulletin to the leader of Hamas, these are problems. This is a legitimate area for people to be exploring.
8:34pm Eastern. Now it’s time for Hillary to be in the hot seat.
Stephy plays a citizen question about the Tuzla fable.
Hillary: I may be a lot of things, but I’m not dumb. I wrote about Bosnia in my book in 2004. I just said some things that I knew not to be true. I’m embarrassed. I hope it’s something that you can look over. Sticks by her story that it was a danger zone…I’ll try and get more sleep…I’ve said things that were not accurate…I’m very sorry that I said it…That happens…
8:38pm Eastern. Obama: “Both of us are working as hard as we can to make sure that we are delivering message that we are [best qualified] to be president…deserves the right to make some errors every once in a while…make sure we don’t lose sight that this is a historic moment….blahblah…for us to be obsessed with these errors is a mistake…
Obama doesn’t want to draw blood.
8:40pm Eastern. Citizen Nash McCabe asks why Obama doesn’t support the American flag. Major vulnerability. How do you convince Dems that it won’t be a vulnerability.
Obama: I revere the American flag. I wouldn’t be running for president if I didn’t revere this country. No other country in which my story is even possibility. Says he’s never said he would never not wear a flagpin. This is a distraction. Obsession with these things distracts from the issues. (Applause)
Stephy brings up Obama’s connection to terrorist William Ayers.
Obama’s irritated. This is someone in my neighborhood. I was eight years old when he committed his acts.
I’m also friendly with Tom Coburn. Do I need to apologize for Coburn’s statements (re abortionists and death penalty)?
The American people are smarter than that.
Hillary goes on the attack: Obama served on a board with Ayers. And that relationship continued after 9/11. It is an issue people will be asking about. She’s really going in for the kill on Obama’s electability in the general. Mwwwrrowr.
Obama notes that Bill Clinton pardoned members of the Weather Underground. Much worse than sitting on some board.
Zing!
(Applause).
Obama finally wakes up and defends himself on electability.
8:56pm Eastern. Back from a commercial break. Hillary trying to out-Left Barack on Iraq. Talking like Cindy Sheehan on withdrawing troops within 60 days of taking the White House. She states adamantly that “no one can predict what will happen,” yet she is adamant that we must pull out the troops.
9:04pm Eastern. Hillary’s talking “diplomatic engagement” with Iran. Refers to Mahmoud’s Trutherism.
9:07pm Eastern. Stephy asks Hillary if she’ll pledge no new taxes for those making under $200k. I’m committed to not raising taxes. She promises billions in tax cuts for middle class. Plugs her website. She’ll pay for everything!
9:11pm Eastern. Gibson asks about the capital gains tax. He cites data that revenues increased when rates were slashed and revenues decreased when rates were raised. Mirabile dictu!
9:16pm Eastern. Know-it-all Hillary. If she had been president, we wouldn’t have had the subprime crisis!
10:10pm Eastern. Sorry, got distracted. Did I fall asleep? Might as well have. Obama was lamb to the slaughter.
Will it matter? Well, he is The Obamessiah.
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Categories: Barack Obama,Hillary Clinton
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» Obama's war on conscience, cont'd
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“If she had been president, we wouldn’t have had the subprime crisis!”
well, in a sense that could be true — in that when there is virtually no economic activity due to government smothering the private sector, people aren’t running out and getting subprime mortgages!

Bill Clinton Pardoned the Weather Underground !!!! What? I had not heard that!
What a communist!
now shes doing the “skys will open” routine.
I feel your pain Boomer, stuck watching American Idol, feel my Intelligence score dropping.
Why didn’t Charlie press Obama for an answer on how he would replace the lost revenue his capital gains tax hike would cost?
I know – silly me.
I know your not surprised gayle….
Oh goody – guns. Maybe Hillary will tell us exactly what firearm she was taught to shoot at her grandpa’s cabin.
Yikes, dudes. you’re missing one heck of a red sox, yankee’s game. idol? lol
Yeah. I wonder how much they contributed to Hillary’s campaign afterwards!
how far we have come… today its:
ask not what you can do for your country, ask what the presidential candidate will do for you.
that is the debate we have in this country thanks to a woefully imbalanced press full of woe-is-us liberals.
“Will John McCain be willing to stop being such a milquetoast and take on this blatant Marxist agitprop or does he plan on being a nice guy straight into defeat”
hold up — JSM has one job from now all the way until august — “don’t f’ up” — and he is doing just fine in fulfilling said task. let them hammer away at each other and keep two nice, thick folders of all these type of quotes. post-denver, throw away the uneeded folder. organize the remainig folder in ascending order of various criteria, including but not limited to: condesceding, rank idiocy, anti-americanism, etc. beginning, say, 9/15 or so, let 1 quote every, say, 3rd day onto the web. collect 400+ electoral votes in nov.
/easy as 1-2-3 …
Hillary and Obama are trying to confiscate the gun I am clinging to.
So we have or had an illegal gun database? Why wasn’t I told?
Here we go, gun control. How about lock up the criminals? How about tracking illegal aliens?
More double talk.
look at snobo….lol….he really really hates her….
aj, that makes two of us!
WHAT? “Just because you have the individual right to bear arms, does not mean the local or state government cannot put certain restrictions on those rights.”
and he says he’s in touch…. c’mon oblahma… get real. wake up and get lost.
Why are they trying so hard to remove the guns from the homes of responsible, registered owners?
How about we focus on the criminals.
Now Glacier’s BDS is kicking in.
In Ohio, aj, that game would be as painful as Big Brother
these two are idiots!
Snobama is a blithering idiot. And that’s his strong suit.
Machine guns? What the heck is she talking about?
re: Guns – Barry just gave us some more of his Marxism when he basically said that our right to bear arms can be abridged if government deems fit. Um, if a right can be limited by the government, it isn’t a right anymore.
Hillary is punting and pointing at Team Dubya and bashing Darth Cheney.
Is it me or are Gibson and Dondi actually pressing these mooks? I’m sure the Kos Kidz are going bat guano right now at how ABC has become “Fixed News”.
lol, hear ya, i root for em both to lose.
The_Livewire so sorry to hear you are stuck watching American Idol (that would also cause the veins to stick out). LOL! I am watching Futurama on Comedy Central. At least I can stand the reruns of this adult cartoon.
They won’t let Booooosh abridge rights.
gun control issue…. they both toasted themselves.
Is it just me, or is Obama simply “all rhetoric, all the time” with no substance?
I get that for yay-yay/rah-rah speeches, but he hasn’t given anything in the way of policy answers, only evasion.
Not that Hillary is over flowing with policy, but at least she is answering with specifics.
Not a fan of either, but she’s at least got some particulars.
Sorry ajmontana not much of a baseball fan since the strike in the 90s turned me off on the game for good unfortunately.
Now they are pushing Affirmative Action.
“gun control issue…. they both toasted themselves”
yep — one of the few areas where conservatives and JSM actually agree, and in contrast you have her farther to the left than bill and him not even on the spectrum …
/and howie dean shakes his head — “why did i take this job?!”
Damn the energy traders. Damn the strategic oil reserve!
Wind-fall profits tax….now where have I heard of that before?
YIKES!
From all my reading none of the three stooges get a passing grade from the NRA. They all tend to think I need a gun for hunting instead of self-defense from criminals and/or an irresponsible government.
I think that is the first time I heard one of them say “comprehensive” tonight. I won that bet.
and if her grandmother had wheels she’d be a red wagon…
At his next campaign appearance, McCain should just debate a video of this thing. The bit about how lowering capital gains taxes increases tax revenue, but Obama will raise those taxes anyway should be part of every McCain commercial. (Even if Hillary wins the nomination, because Obama will still be in the senate to vote on that bill.)
Well, I’ve had enough. Thanks for the coverage Michelle. See y’all in the morning. Ciao.
if she thought it would get her votes in PA, she’d go out and put the wheels on herself.
I wonder how many other markets ABC is not showing this debate in , it’s a shame because they’re really hanging themselves tonight. both of them.
Jeeezuss! Twenty pound brass ones.
What ten times worse thing(s) is she hiding?
We’re watching it in TN.
It hurts, but we’re watching it.
AA? still? How many years to achieve equivalency?
Get an education. Get a job. Welcome to the real world! Thanks, , undrseige247.
Here comes religion.
Also: Taking the embarrassment bar to a whole. new, Tibetan, level.
In their minds, we’ll never get there. It is too profitable for them not to.
yawn.
Oops, maybe not. It’s a “Why should you be pres?” question.
Hillary: Because I’m honest.
Barack: Because I’m someone to cling to for all you hick clinger folk.
This debate has probably driven most, if not all, independents to John McCain.
did they kiss at the end?
no
If this country elects either Obama or Glacier, it will be the first time in my adult life that I will be ashamed of it.
My staunchly democrat late father is turning over in his grave.
Hee – even sitting, Charlie is taller than George Stephy. Poor lil’ guy.
They are being unusually tough, especially with the capital gains tax issue. Not the softballs we are all used to hearing. I feel like I am in an alternate universe. The problem is they keep giving the same lame answers and evasions. This makes them look even more foolish than usual since it makes them apear oblivious to reality. Will anybody in our Amrican Idol culture even notice?
ditto, pb.
Thanks for covering this none event Michelle. It is time to shut down for the night and get ready for work tomorrow. Boomer’s checking off for the night!
Wow! Barack Baby still doesn’t get it! “things get mangled” now just how did that happen? Could it have anything to do with the words the great orator used himself? Just who is he blaming?
“People run to religion when government doesn’t function”. And then he repeats the same offensive statement (well one of them, at least we ain’t clinging to our guns anymore).
Night all, thank you MM.
Sadly, I don’t think so. I wonder how many know what the “Capital Gains Tax” even is, and what liability they will have if they aspire to succeed.
Has anyone asked Hillary about the way she treated the military staff at the White House?
Was there any mention of our illegal friends taking over our country?
how about the civilian staff?
NO mention of illegals from these crapweasels? Why are democrats do retarded?
“Just because you have the individual right to bear arms, does not mean the local or state government cannot put certain restrictions on those rights.”
I see. So, he acknowledges that the right to bear arms is an individual right under the Constitution, just like freedom of speech and religion. It would therefore follow that he must also believe that “local and state” governments can also impose reasonable restrictions on an individual’s right to practice religion and free speech. No wait, I thought the Constitution actually restricted the government and not individuals, and that it prohibited even local and state governments from interfering with individual rights? Of course, I am not a Constitutional Law professor, so I must be missing something. Maybe if I ate more arugula…
Trollman’s rundown of the debate:
Obama: Being a man of faith myself, of course I wouldn’t insult people of faith.
Trollman: Given that you share the faith of Jeremiah Wright and Trinity, perhaps it isn’t wise to reference your own religious faith…
Hillary: Republicans are very shrewd about doing what it takes to win!
Trollman: Did you just say that with a straight face?!
Hillary: I said some things that weren’t in keeping with what I knew to be correct.
Trollman: So you, uh, lied?
Hillary: No, I just said some things that didn’t jive with what I knew to be the truth.
Trollman: Uh huh.
Obama: Much like I once compared my white grandma to Jeremiah Wright, I now have the audacity to compare Coburn to Ayers!
Trollman: Obama is the candidate for hope, change, and moral equivalence, gotcha.
Hillary: I wish Republicans would apologize for 8 years of Bush/Cheney by not running anyone this election.
Trollman: Democracy = bad, got it.
Hillary: We don’t know what will happen if we withdraw from Iraq, perhaps lots of good things. But we do know what will happen if we stay in Iraq – only bad stuff.
Trollman: Even the willing suspension of disbelief isn’t helping me swallow this!
Obama: I don’t care if lowering the capital gains tax will increase overall revenues, I demand fairness! Besides, just because it has worked in the past, why think it could ever work again?!
Trollman: I may not have gone to Harvard, but…
Hillary: We’ll improve the economy by having the government create lots of jobs!
Trollman: (falls to the floor in the fetal position)
Summary: Obama looked tired. It is clear these last few days have taken a toll on him. Much of his time was spent having to clarify statements that were all too clear to begin with.
Hillary seemed to realize that she has lost. She tried to go after Obama without looking like she was going after him.
On the issue of Gun Control, just once, just once I would like them to acknowledge that some people own guns not just for hunting, not just for collecting, but (say it with me now) for personal security and self-defense.
I have to admit, ABC asked a lot of good questions tonight. This was the best Democratic debate this year (admittedly not saying much).
Excellent recap, Trollman! Huzzah!
RNC talking points abound!
We should stop hunting terrorist abroad and get the ones we have here first.
We had 2 of them right there on stage! What did Bush outsource their capture also?
Two enter, only one comes out….Gotta love when Dems eat their own.
Trollman nail = head
I did not subject myself to tonight’s debate. Instead, I had dinner with a business associate friend, who, despite being a minor league limosine liberal, is a pretty good guy. Unfortunately, he descended from a long line of “yellow dog” Democrats, defined as one who would vote for a yellow dog before voting for a Republican.
My friend even defended Bill Clinton but, as a decorated WWII veteran, he agonized and wavered over John Kerry.
I am pleased to report that Hillary and Hussein tipped the scales and he is now a Republican.
Obama missed a huge opportunity to nail Hillary on her veracity. Giving a pass on Bosnia was stupid considering the new poll numbers indicating that most democratic voters have a negative opinion of her.(likely due to her aversions to truth) This was Obama’s flatest debate performance in quite a while, but he’s just trying to run out the clock at this point without turning the ball over.
The DNC should adopt one of my favorite Paul Simon songs for the theme of their quest to regain the White House. “Slip Sliding Away”. Hey ChiefRZ is this blog big enough for two chief’s? I would say I will be “little” chief, but I am not sure how that will sound to the ladies. Very enjoyable debate. Tommorow’s spin should be fun.
My wife noticed during the debate that Hillary seemed to be “shifty”, that she looked everywhere and anywhere. It was like without an audience to pander to, so had a hard time focusing.
And before the troll brigade starts having a hissy, this was only our opinion.
Rodham makes me vomit. She is so completely dishonest that I want to puke. The “I’ll try to get more sleep line”, is so beyond dishonest that I’m having dry heaves now.
B.J.Billy set the table for her, by lying that Rodham was dead tired at 11pm when she lied about TUZLA.
Rodham as planned, tried to LIE on top of her LIE. Rodham made the “I remember landing under SNIPER FIRE” LIE, 4 times. Tim Russert showed all 4 LIE SESSIONS on MEET THE PRESS.
Rodham is trying the BIG LIE concept.
B.J.Bill complicitly set up her ALIBI.
This woman is morally bankrupt.
And Obama is no better.
So Rodham GLIBLY pretends that the 11:00P.M. she was dead tired and mis-spoke LIE, that was so casually diseminated by Billy “With that woman….Mizz Lewinksy” Clinton, is indeed fact. It’s all calculated.
Looks like another SnObama lie in the making
April 16, 2008:
Obama was asked by a voter via video why he did not wear the American flag in his lapel.
“I have never said that I don’t wear flag pins or refuse to wear flag pins. This is the kind of manufactured issue that our politics has become obsessed with and, once again, distracts us,” he said.
October 4, 2007:
Barack Obama says he doesn’t wear an American flag lapel pin because it has become a substitute for “true patriotism” since the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.
“I decided I won’t wear that pin on my chest,” he said in the interview. “Instead, I’m going to try to tell the American people what I believe will make this country great, and hopefully that will be a testament to my patriotism.”
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8S2K3UO0&show_article=1
Here I thought an Ivy league presidential candidate would know what he said or when he said it. Those kinds of questions must be a “distraction” for him.
Then again I must be one of those who “manufactures issues” I’m “obsessesed” with. Guess I’ll go back to “clinging” to my flag…
This is like having Stalin and Vlad the Impaler debate each other on morality. There is so much ammo on both sides..
Hammer, I’m with you brother. Jesus Obama, told us that wearing the flag “didn’t make him Patriotic”.
O.K.
Did “taking off the flag prove his “patriotism”?
It’s typical Lib-Think.
Proving that you are NOT PATRIOTIC equals BEING PATRIOTIC.
Obama has been exposes as to what he really is.
He is a “somewhat intelligent black dude”, who went to COLUMBIA and HARVARD by virtue of being 100 PERCENT AFFIRMATIVE ACTION ELIGIBLE. He was a drinking and drunking flunky by HIS OWN ACCOUNT in HAWAII,
THEN!!! He became JESUS OBAMA!!
A COMPLETE AND UTTER FU@#ING FRAUD.
For those of you in the states I saw that the Drudge Poll has Barry “winning” the debate. If he gets the nod on this one it looks like Hils is losing more and more MSM support. Operation Chaos needs to keep up the good work. From what I could see they attacked each other pretty well last night. Coming to you from Germany where we just got two inches of wet snow, please limit your carbon footprint. sarc/ off
Uh huh. So was Lee Harvey Oswald.
My feelings exactly Bob1234.
Hitler did alot of great things for the German people before he did alot of bad things for peace and humanity.
As soon as it’s clear Hillary is toast, Obama will back off, make nice and offer the #2 slot. She’ll snatch it up in a heartbeat.
ArmoredCav,
Here’s one cHillary’s cackles.
#117: “Just because you have the individual right to bear arms, does not mean the local or state government cannot put certain restrictions on those rights.”
These two are lawyers? Did they both skip the classes in law school where they covered the 14th Amendment applying the Bill of Rights to the states? Or about ennumerated powers? Or what shall not be infringed means? It’s a good thing neither of them actually practices law.
Jim M, “fighting words”, “time and manner”, “yelling fire in a crowded theater”. These are all examples of constitutional state actor imposed restrictions on free speech. I’m pretty sure you understand that the Bill of Rights are not absolute. The good news is that Obama stated that he believes the 2nd amendment to create an individual right to bear arms. I think the Supremes will agree, and the key question will then become what level of scrutiny the court will put in place regarding federal, state or local restrictions (i.e., gun control laws) on such individual right to bear arms. I don’t think there’s any serious disagreement that some degree of “gun control” will pass constitutional muster even with a very conservative court.
Let’s talk Constitutional rights. I would wager that givng up my right to bear arms in exchange for a lib’s right to free speach is not a bargan they would be willing to make. Weaken one part of the Constitution and you weaken the whole.
What does that mean ct?