Open borders and the Catholic elite
During his visit this week, the Pope has made repeated comments critical of immigration enforcement efforts–such as they are–in the U.S. His primary concerns are not the sovereignty and security of our country. Open borders benefit Catholic churches looking to fill their pews and collection baskets. The Vatican and American bishops, led by radical L.A. Cardinal Roger Mahony, have long promoted immigration anarchy and lawlesness. Their campaign continues:
More than 45,000 people filled Nationals Park on a clear spring day, as the pope, wearing scarlet vestments, led the service from an altar erected in centerfield of the recently inaugurated baseball stadium. Rows of red-robed church leaders joined him. The enthusiastic crowd burst into cheers when Benedict entered the stadium in his popemobile.
His homily was more somber. Benedict examined American society, saying he detected anger and alienation, increasing violence and a “growing forgetfulness of God.”
“Americans have always been a people of hope,” he said. “Your ancestors came to this country with the experience of finding new freedom and opportunity.
“To be sure, this promise was not experienced by all the inhabitants of this land; one thinks of the injustices endured by the native American peoples and by those brought here forcibly from Africa as slaves.”
It was not the first time on the trip that the pontiff has delicately critiqued his host nation. Speaking to his American bishops Wednesday, he said the U.S. must be welcoming to immigrants, helping them to flourish in their new homes.
Following a White House visit, a joint statement from the U.S. and the Vatican hinted that Benedict raised concerns with President Bush about punitive immigration laws. It said the leaders discussed “the need for a coordinated policy regarding immigration, especially the humane treatment of immigrants and the well-being of their families.”
It’s one thing to show compassion to legal immigrants, legitimate refugees and asylees, and those abused and mistreated by smugglers. It’s quite another to support the systematic undermining of an orderly immigration and entrance system that imposes limits, eligibility requirements, criminal background checks, medical screening, and a commitment to assimilation. There is nothing Christian about facilitating illicit, illegal activity like this:
The Vatican donated at least $20,000 to build a shelter for Central American immigrants traveling to the USA, angering immigration control advocates as Pope Benedict XVI begins his first official U.S. visit.
The Pontifical Commission for Latin America, which reports to the pope, sent the money in January to help the Brothers on the Path charity construct a $120,000 shelter in Ixtepec in southern Mexico, the Vatican confirmed Tuesday.Many Catholic churches in the USA and Mexico have programs to aid immigrants, but few receive direct support from the Vatican, said Alejandro Solalinde, a priest and director of the project.
The donation comes at a delicate time, as the United States fortifies its southern border and the number of Central Americans crossing illegally is high. The area around Ixtepec is a major conduit for Central American migrants who ride freight trains to the U.S. border.
The illegal alien sanctuary movement sabotages the very compassion it purports to defend.
Brooke Levitske at the Acton Institute put it well:
…[I]llegal immigration raises two separate matters of conscience, which pro-sanctuary Christians blur and equate. The first is the question of immediate need and the Christian duty to extend compassion. The second is the long-term issue of how best to preserve the common good.
To deal with the first: Scripturally speaking, it seems clear that giving immediate, material assistance to anyone in need is always right, whether to an enemy soldier bleeding alone in a ditch or to the child of an illegal immigrant family in ones church with an urgent medical need. If an individual feels compelled to assist an illegal immigrant in some tangible way, his conscience should be free to do so. Political circumstances should not condition acts of mercy or evangelization for us any more than they did for Christ, who associated with Samaritans, tax collectors, and the so-called dregs of society. It is part of Christian duty to minister to others, no matter what they have done or how they arrived on ones doorstep.
With that said, it seems inadvisable to the church, as a societal institution, to disobey the law to protect illegal immigrants from deportation. Christ expected his followers to treat criminals in prison the way they would treat him, but he said nothing about busting them out of prison. The church has a tremendous interest, morally and practically, in preserving the rule of law. From a moral perspective, Scripture teaches that we are to submit to the governing authorities appointed by God. Churches especially ought to honor conscientious immigrants who follow the laws of the land and not undermine their difficult and virtuous choices by systematically condoning illegal behavior. And practically, American churches ought to venerate and cherish the law because it is the guarantor of their religious freedom.
…While there is room to debate how well the U.S. has protected its borders, we should acknowledge both its right to do so and the complexity of our national security situation. We need to have patience with the present laws even as we seek to improve them through due process. It is also important to remember that law is not meant to abolish suffering, but only to prevent injustice.
C.S. Lewis wrote in The Abolition of Man that a hard heart is no infallible protection against a soft head, but a soft heart does not guarantee right thinking, either. Disregarding the rule of law to help illegal immigrants is a paradoxical way of hurting them. The rule of law is the sustainer of the free and prosperous society that draws immigrants to the States. It is something immigrants’ own countries often cannot guarantee them, and it is what makes ours look so appealing. And if we shirk the rule of law if laws of entry can be applied to some immigrants but not to others we are cheating all immigrants out of the kind of society they are seeking in the first place.
Catholic elites can afford to harangue us about our perceived lack of “humanity.” Fact is, we remain the most generous and welcoming nation in the world to those who line up and play by the rules. It is not heretical to challenge the unholy alliance between the open borders lobby and the church establishment. If the Vatican had its way, we’d be paying for every last organ transplant for every last illegal alien patient in the world.
***
Question: Have you heard a single Catholic leader express compassion or outrage about the murder of young Jamiel Shaw in Roger Mahoney’s sanctuary of Los Angeles by an illegal alien gang member?
Commenter Granite asks: “What would His Holiness have to say if, hordes of Muslims who happened to have entered Italy illegally and were descending upon the Vatican; who, while acting upon last Friday’s sermon by the Muslim cleric in Ramallah, to conquer Rome, “the Crusader capital”, were in the meantime in need of food, water, and shelter? Would he want to keep them out of the Vatican?”
In fact, at least one Catholic leader has voiced concern about uncontrolled mass immigration of Muslims to Italy and the threat it poses:
Cardinal Giacomo Biffi based his argument on a trenchant analysis of the cultural (not racial) roots of the Italian nation. The London Daily Telegraph (September 16, 2000) quotes him:
“The criteria for admitting immigrants can never be just economic. It is necessary to concern oneself seriously with saving the identity of the nation.” Italy was not an “uninhabited region” lacking in history and traditions, which was fit to be “indiscriminately populated.” While it could admit anyone it wanted, no one had a “right of invasion.” He urged politicians to heed his words, since “not all of the cultures of those newly arrived are in favor of living together.” …
He said he had recently aired the same views with a government minister. “I said, ‘If you really have the good of Italy at heart, and want to spare a lot of suffering, then you can’t allow all the immigrants in.’” He said he had warned the minister that civil unrest would be one of the consequences if immigration was not religious-selective. He told the minister: “I’m surprised you still haven’t thought things through.” He added: “I don’t know how you’re going to cope with Friday as a holiday, polygamy, discrimination against women, and the fundamentalism of Muslims, for whom politics and religion are the same thing. Do your sums properly.”
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Update: Tom Tancredo weighs in.
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When Church meddles with politics. Point well taken. Can anyone say ISLAM?
I wonder what part of the Vatican the Pope will let me homestead in? I would like a really nice building with paintings on the ceiling.
One demerit!
Has anyone told the Pope that America is kind to its immigrants. When they come here legally, surely the well educated Pope certainly understands that we are a nation of laws and laws based on Judeo-Christian philosophies. Surely one of his American born underlings can lean over to him during his speech and say “You’re Holiness: Um: American immigrants are treated very well when they come through the front door sir. Oh! and Uh.. Slavery is over.”
I am not Catholic but I can’t believe the Pope and his church are just more concerned with filling pews than the actual inhumane treatment that illegal aliens bring on themselves by being illegal aliens. Which should concern him more?
It’s easy for the Pope to say how we should handle those in this country illegally - he’ll be going home in a couple of days. The rest of us will be left here to deal with the mess - and to pay for it.
What would His Holiness have to say if, hordes of Muslims who happened to have entered Italy illegally and were descending upon the Vatican; who, while acting upon last Friday’s sermon by the Muslim cleric in Ramallah, to conquer Rome, “the Crusader capital”, were in the meantime in need of food, water, and shelter?
Would he want to keep them out of the Vatican?
Well, the majority of Latin Americans are Catholic, so politically its important for the Pope to vouch for them, you know to keep the Vatican Bank rolling on. I’m Catholic by the way but just saying it how it is.
I miss John Paul. The catholic church has been slowly involving itself in politics and I’m sick of it. I don’t even acknowlede I’m catholic anymore. O’Connor pulled the same crap in NYC.
This Pope needs to mind is business about telling the US what to do with it’s borders. Every human is responsible for their own well being. If you want to put yourself in harms way and cross the border and die TOUGH!
Excellent post, Michelle.
I am not Catholic in that the Bible is my only standard for adjudicating between competing and conflicting theological truth claims. But this article shows that the Vatican, via its enthusiastic support for illegal immigration, is encouraging lawlessness and anarchy in our country.
For Protestants like myself,
this article
as well as this article reveals the non-sense and falsity of the pro-illegal immigration position.
Thank you again for your excellent post.
I fully understand this but something has to be said for the sanctity of life over the bottom line. Ya know if the Pope is that concerned over our system of A)government B)immigration. Let him resign as the Pope move to New York, gain his citizinship then run for public office… Otherwise, when he gets here, read a bible verse or two, tell everyone it is good to see them, pray, say a blessing or two and leave.
Perhaps we should start deporting illegals to the Vatican. Let’s see how compassionate the Holy See would be when illegals outnumber priests and nuns.
But then, of course the Pope wants catholic mexicans to flood our country. He’s just looking out for the good sheep in his flock. Have to put the protestants in their place!
I believe y’all are reading way too much into what the pope said. He is a humanitarian first…that’s why he is the pope.
Good point.
That point is also the same reason I get so tired and sick of upper income Whites (like McCain and Democrats) who live in plush, gated communities telling me how to think about the “Race Wars” going on in Southern California.
He could probably stash a few under his robe.
Jesus used miracles to heal people and feed people, but I don’t remember him changing their social or economic status. We can love our neighbors best by teaching them ways to help themselves. Accepting Mexico’s poor and providing them with social services will do nothing to eliminate the corruption problems which are preventing that country from improving.
See my update above. In fact, at least one Vatican official has endorsed limits on immigration to Italy to preseve the national identity.
#12 I think we understand that but, when it crosses the line into politics and telling a country how to handle immigration and it’s border AND aiding them in their journey to break the law.
Well that’s a whole different issue!
When the Pope starts advocating open borders and illegal immigration in Europe, I’ll listen to what he has to say on the subject. I am sick and tired of the US being demonized for wanting secure borders and immigration laws obeyed like every other country does.
The Catholic church somehow managed to get itself declared a independent country. How a church can do this I have no idea. They are also a seperate non-profit entity in every country.
They spend a lot of efort to keep American churches full for one reason. THEY NEED OUR MONEY! At one point Italy was about to cut off water service to Vatican City because they couldn’t pay their bills. There is no profit in third world countries, where they are much more strict in the enforcement of their rules. Been there, seen it, striking differences.
Could you imagine the good the Catholic church could do in the world if they started selling some of the priceles works of art they have stashed away in the Vatican? Museums would love to buy these works that never see the light of day, not to mention the countless books that they keep hidden from public view as well for some **unknown** reason.
This would be true except for the fact that it isn’t very humanitarian for the illegals who have to live in diplorable conditions, try to cross a border in a desert, get less than minimum wage and can’t speak the language enough to improve their standards of living. If the illegal alliens would have done things the right way and been legal immigrants, all of these things would go away. All of them.
There are a lot of rooms in Vatican City. Let the Pope take them home with him.
If I understand this comment, then I tend to agree with you.
I linked to the Catechism’s teaching on immigration in another post. To reiterate, it does call on host to welcome immigrants to the extent they are able but it also calls upon the immigrants to respect and integrate themselves into their new nation’s culture, respect the heritage of that nation, obey its laws and be good citizens.
The story Michelle links to is an AP story. So I take it with a grain of salt. The MSM really has no use for the Pope unless he says something that could possibly support their worldview - and even then, it’s usually carefully selected, out-of-context snippets.
Remember the flap over Islam when the Pope made comments regarding religion and reason? Yeah - same thing. Outraged fueled by MSM incompetence and malice.
There isn’t a doubt in my mind the Pope would equally condemn the breaking of law.
As for the donation for a shelter, it’s easy to see how it could be interpreted as helping illegal immigration.
Rather, it is providing shelter for people.
I am as anti-illegal immigration as they come, but I cannot justify allowing people to die in the desert as punishment.
BTW, more than 50% of the Vatican budget comes from the USA.
Where did he cross into politics, what did he say that?
“aiding them in their journey”…do you know how Mexicans treat illegals? I consider that as humanitarian.
EU
Had the Catholic church not spent millions of dollars in “reparations” to the victims of pedophilia, they could have used the money to help the illegal immigrants in their home countries so they wouldn’t have to traverse across the border in search of work, free healthcare, and the other amenities they are in search of.
Not only is illegal the key word in front of immigrant, but failure to assimilate into our society, language and culture is the destructive results of that crime. They want to reap the benefits of coming to the USA but want to bring their language and way of life here too. After enough of this transpires, the country that draws them here won’t look any different than the one they left.
I know the cost has been over 1 billion to date with concerns to the malestation of children. Scandal is too light a word.
I would love to ask the Pope how condoning the exodus of Mexico’s vital labor force of young men to America (and breaking up families in the process) will help conditions in Mexico improve? Mexico has resources that could make it one of the riches nations on earth were it not for deep-seeded corruption at all levels of government. The Pope should be lecturing Mexican officials, not Americans.
When I first heard about the Pope saying this I could only think. Time to walk into the Vatican, demand a job, housing, citizenship and medical care. I could just put my self in the hands of the compassionate church.
But it is not just the Catholic church. The Mormon church also favors open borders. Mexico has a large group of Mormons.
It is not just the money either. The Catholic church is short on Priests. They need illegal immigrant priests also.
Both religions, just like both political parties think that the American citizens are suckers.
exactly
#23 Why can’t you see this? He is telling our country because we’re the land of hope we have to let in all immigrants. Who cares how Mexico treats them NOT OUR PROBLEM! We are sovreign nation and can let in who we want and don’t want. Other countries or the Vatican can dictate anything else.
Do you have any idea how many immigrants are given asylum here? So don’t preach the crap about what mexico or any other country does to immigrants or their own people.
Why don’t we send some diplomats from MS13 to speak with Him. I’m sure He and the homeys would have alot to rap about, ya know, this racist country and all. Heck we don’t need no steeenking fences.
What if the roles were reversed (in a different sort of way)? What if, due to our non-existent security on the southern border, terrorists smuggled in 20 fresh off the line nukes from Iran across the Mexican border and used them on Los Angeles, San Diego, Phoenix, etc? And due to these mass casualties and fear caused by it people swarmed into Mexico from the US as refugees?
Would the pope have the same message to the Mexican catholics to receive the Americans with open arms and feed and clothe them? Would he pay for shelters on the American side of the border for those trying to make it into Mexico so they don’t die in the desert on their way there?
This of course is a fictional “what if” scenario. But one that is possible but not likely as most Americans would flee north and not south into the arms of socialist thugs. We all know that in reality the Mexican government is a corrupt socialist/communist regime that has harsher immigration laws than we do by a long shot. Americans today, and in the fictional future event, would never get the same treatment immigrants do who come to our country legally and illegally. So until Mexico puts its money where its mouth is and changes its laws to match our immigration laws and show the same level of compassion we show them I will continue to not support them for their evils.
So, the Pope is good until he advocates something you don’t like. Then he’s “elite”.
Do you heap scorn on US Special Forces because they’re elite?
Too much is being read into this. The Pope is supposed to say something like that, because large numbers of Catholics are hispanics, and this is what they want to hear. Don’t forget, he may be the Bishop of Rome, prone to wearing medieval costumes and living in Renaissance palazzi but he is also a modern-day political leader, and we all know what they’re all about: tell your followers (be they of a religious, national or partisan nature) that you’re looking after their interests, and that their future is safe in your hands, and they’ll be happy.
It’s like when a western politician goes to China and tells them they need to work towards democracy and human rights, and the Chinese government nod politely and say “thank you for that interesting speech, we will think about everything you said”, but have no intention of doing so, and the western politician knows that, but also knows that what he said will be well received back home, which is the main thing.
That’s all it is. Politicking.
Pope Benedict did, in fact, mention that those who emigrate are to respect the grace and benefits they have received. His reception of victims of the pedophilia and his lecturing to the priests and bishops here reflect a concern about the scandal that was going on ( anyone screen teachers and Protestants as aggressively BTW on what they did?) Does this change the past, NO but at least he’s trying to correct the problems. Regarding the slavery comment, I would ask him to make sure he mentions the Arab and African countries who sold and placed their people and others into slavery as well how long they practiced it compared to the Western world.
#15 On April 18th, 2008 at 11:34 am, Michelle Malkin said:
“See my update above. In fact, at least one Vatican official has endorsed limits on immigration to Italy to preseve the national identity.”
Thank you, Michelle.
Hey, Soap:
The comedian is back!
I got such a kick out of that nonsensical post, I’m still ROTFLMAO!!
In the Old Testament, God told the Israelites to welcome immigrants, as long as they assimilated into Israelite society completely. If the immigrants tried to keep their old ways, and their old gods, and tried to change Israel to be like the society they left, then they were to be rejected.
Now, we’re told, to fully accept those who try to keep their old ways, and want to change the USA to be like the society they left. Those who try to come here legally, and want to assimilate, are punished, it seems, for trying to follow the rules set down in the Old Testament.
I am asking you to show me where he said that. WHERE?
Yeah, I’m glad the Church is fighting against inhumane treatment of illegal immigrants—God knows they need help there—but I hate how the Church also portrays the debate like the MSM does: illegal immigrants are just “immigrants,” and pro–border security people like myself are “anti-immigrant.” Luckily, I’m not the only guy in my seminary who realizes what illegals do to immigrants and the nation in general.
(I also agree with #32; the Holy Father is definitely not “elite.” I doubt you meant to include him in the “Catholic elite” part of the title, but it kinda seemed that way.)
Michelle, as a cradle Catholic, homeschooler, Catholic Studies major, you-can’t-love-the-Church-more-than-me kind of guy, I absolutely agree with you and wholeheartedly believe that the reason the Pope is saying what he is saying is because of the Cardinals around him. The Left has infected the Church in the same manner as it has infected the U.S. Government at all levels. To hear some of the things out of their mouths about the war in Iraq, illegal immigration, and other issues affecting free persons in the world today, you can only come to that conclusion - because if he understood the issues without the filters around him, he’d be going in the absolute opposite direction.
By the way, as a side note, I know most major American papers and news services ignore this bit of grammatical nitpickery, but when referring to a Cardinal by name, they are referred to as “Firstname Cardinal Lastname” - Edward Cardinal Egan, Anthony Cardinal Bevilaqua, and so on. I’m just pointing it out for future reference - I don’t mean for it to detract from what you’ve said.
Thanks for such wonderful commentary and reporting, and God Bless!
Sorry, I meant to say that I agree with you, and separately I believe that the Pope is influenced primarily by the Cardinals around him.
Some would argue that they already do a lot of good. Should america sell it’s treasures as well. How about you sell your family air looms and do some good.
This coming from a descendant of Nazi Germany and the Roman Empire.
And incidentally the Pope is also a Head of State, Vatican City being a sovereign entity. The number of immigrants His Holiness allows to cross his own borders each year?
Zero
With all due respect I’d invite Benedict to say mass, tend to the souls of his flock and STFU about American politics.
Sigh-no longer Catholic.
bit - boy
I love it when people reference the infallible thing, most don’t get it right. The Pope is considered infallible in matters of doctrine. He’s NOT nor has ever been omnipotent or perfect. It’s like a CEO who has final say over growth and production goals( I know I know simple comparison but it’s Friday)
I would have bet money the troll would have stayed away from this thread. Then I said to myself, “self, it is his chance to dish some more hate as he is anti-anything-GOD”.
Does he have any other kind of post? Check out the Time thread! He can’t seem to deal with how stooopid he comes off!
OT. I have nothing to add except it is easy to live a sheltered life. Come down to our level and live and see how hard it is for the common man. That goes for our politico’s as well.
So you don’t think he comments on that? Your out there man.
anyone that wasn’t borm there would be an immigrant.
So you don’t think he comments on that? Your out there man.
anyone that wasn’t borm there would be an immigrant.
I have so many heirlooms to sell too
Churches do themselves and their congregations such a disservice when they devolve into political parties. Separation of Church and State should extend to separation of State and Church.
A bigwig in the Christian Church (I think his name may have been “Jesus”) said “Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s…”.
The prostitution of Christianity — originally the religion welcoming of all sincere believers, regardless of their political persuasion — into politics (not just now, but for centuries) has alienated many who might otherwise be receptive to the teachings of Jesus Christ.
So what is the implication of the Pope’s speech, that God doesn’t love me if I think people should respect the rule of law and believe that a nation has the right to enforce its laws?
Or maybe the Pope is just off-message.
That’s more than a two-way street, lgm. Most in the MSM and liberal media have no use for anything the Pope says unless it meets with their worldview.
He could talk until he’s blue in the face about things like abortion, marriage, religious freedom and faith and it would fall on deaf ears.
When he does say something they don’t like, he’s “taking the Church back to the dark ages”, “out of touch”, an “opponent of” or he’s “chastizing” or “condemning.”
Or his words are spun so out of context they barely resemble his original remarks (or intent).
Ultimately, what it comes down to is this: the Catholic faith transcends politics.
This can certainly be classifed as a political issue, but when faced with people who need food and shelter, the Church is not going to deny them those basic necessities because they are law-breakers.
Nor does it give them a free pass to break the law.
No - the Pope says and does what he does because he’s the Pope and it’s what we Catholics need to hear.
And we need to be reminded that basic necessities cannot be denied or withheld from individuals just because they are criminals.
As conservative as I am, I find there is a tendency by conservatives to overlook the hardships of some - even if those hardships are self-inflicted - with a rather trite “they brought it on themselves” mentality.
I abhor illegal immigration. I want our borders secured and those who have broken the law held accountable. I also want those who come to this nation to have an opportunity to do so legally. God knows we’re all blessed with tremendous wealth here (even our “poor” live in relative luxury compared to the poor in other nations). I want others to have that same good fortune.
But to say it’s a threat to our national soveriegnity to set up a place for people to sleep and eat is just unacceptable. That’s like saying those who die in hot trucks crossing the border deserved to suffocate as punishment for breaking the law.
or maybe your off-message. Thats not what he said.
It’s exactly this type of targeted meddling in the affairs of other countries the Vatican was distrusted for centuries by heads of state. I’ve loved watching the coverage, and admire him greatly, but found the remarks about former slaves, doing more for our illegals out of compassion, and our native Americans to be a bit scattered in logic. I sit in a pew on Sunday mornings to hear the teaching of the Word, not to be lectured on the flavor of the month pet project or social re-engineering.
The $$ billion or so in settlements paid out by the church could have gone to rebuild many of those small villages south of our borders that have suffered the loss of half their populations to the U.S..
#27: The Church won’t be getting any illegal immigrant priests; as far as I know, to be ordained you have to be a legal citizen because to be accepted at any school of theology you have to be legal.
Even outside our borders, priests intending on working in America have to be (or become) citizens: Seminario Hispano de Santa María de Guadalupe in Mexico City, which prepares Hispanics for ministry in the US as priests, immigrates them legally, despite the enormous time and effort it takes (since it takes a long time to become a legal citizen nowadays).
EQ
well stated.
Yes, I totally agree with #52.
Headline: THE POPE IS CATHOLIC!
What did you expect him to say, after all? And everyone completely ignores all the good things he’s said about America during his trip.
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/travels/2008/index_stati-uniti_en.htm
As a Catholic, I Wholehearted believe what His Holiness has to proclaim in matters of the Roman Catholic faith, religion and ALL matters of spirituality.
HOWEVER,
His Holiness is out of his relm in matters of national security and soverenty. The only issue he should be dealing with in these respects is for nations to be prepared to deal with the inevitable Judeo-Christian WAR with islam, if not proclaiming a need for a new Holy Crusade.
The Pope does not do much of his own political research; he is more of a theologian than a political science buff. He relies on his cardinals to do the political research for him. And, as we all are well aware, those cardinals are incredibly liberal. If those cardinals say “The United States is full of racists who hate Hispanics, and more importantly Catholics” that’s the message he’s going to pump out.
But let me make something crystal clear:
Papal infallibility, as we Catholics believe, only occurs when the Pope declares that he is speaking ex-cathedra, or from the chair of Peter. And the subject matter is purely theological. He does not have to be correct all the time, and he doesn’t necessarily have his ticket punched into heaven. Anyone who tells you otherwise is flat-out lying.
#38 Sambo did you graduate school maybe college?
Following a White House visit, a joint statement from the U.S. and the Vatican hinted that Benedict raised concerns with President Bush about punitive immigration laws. It said the leaders discussed “the need for a coordinated policy regarding immigration, especially the humane treatment of immigrants and the well-being of their families.”
Not everything said has to be literal read between the lines
What I’m goning to take from the Popes comments is that the closed border supporters can win the compassion side of the arguements as well…Please don’t confuse me with McCain.
The Catholic church I was married in in Prince William County, VA, has recently been stuffing the weekly bulletin’s with flyers inviting immigrents to a meeting where they will “learn their rights” and “What to do if you are pulled over by police”. It is sponcered by Catholic Charities, which if you check their website, also pays legal fees for immegrants facing deportation.
For better or worse, I have stopped my monitary donations to the church, and am considering leaving the Catholic religion. (Yes, I feel that strongly about illegal immegration.) If you live in Prince William County VA, you will know what I mean.
The Pope is a head of state whose country is The Holy See. If he wants open borders so badly, people opposed to our open borders (aka most of us on this blog) need to start camping out on the lawn of the Vatican embassy in Washington.
I mean literal camping. Pitch a tent. Take a pregnant woman there to tell them she wants to have the baby on Vatican soil so the Pope can support her. I realize that it wouldn’t make her child a citizen of The Holy See, but that’s precisely my point.
People opposed to the Pope’s stance on open (US) borders should go into the embassy and demand food and shelter. Are you sick? Go talk to the Vatican embassy.
In other words, conservatives (especially with the Pope here) should go to the grounds of the embassy and not leave until they’re arrested. Their defense? “The Pope says enforcing immigration is bad, so I’m taking his advice.”
Part of the problem with the way the Church speaks is that it uses very broad terms. “Immigrant” doesn’t necessarily mean “illegal immigrant”. The Church teaches that immigrants need to be gracious and respectful of their host country, and that they need to obey the laws of that country in order to protect the common good.
Sadly these are points that none of the hierarchy of the Church have touched on.
Great article. As a lifelong Catholic myself, they are getting close to losing me. This makes me SO MAD.
None of your business!
Following a White House visit, a joint statement from the U.S. and the Vatican hinted that Benedict raised concerns with President Bush about punitive immigration laws. It said the leaders discussed “the need for a coordinated policy regarding immigration, especially the humane treatment of immigrants and the well-being of their families.”
I guess your right. He said “opend your borders god d$%$# it”!
joetimek
That is what I was trying to say earlier, but you expressed it much clearer than I did.
That is why he wants illegal immigrants legalized.
MacUser:
I can understand your frustration. However, it seems you’re in a liberal parish at a liberal diocese, or your priest/bishop is sorely misinformed about the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
It is not not reflective of the faith as a whole - even the Pope’s comments are taken out of context - and I hope you reconsider leaving the Catholic faith.
There is nothing in Church teaching that makes it incompatable to be Catholic and in favor of tough immigration laws. E-mail me if you’d like to discuss this in-depth.
Doesn’t the fact the Pope recognizes the need to preserve Italy’s national identity make any of you who are criticizing his remarks pause to think he (who isn’t Italian, but German) would feel the same about any nation?
I have to agree with sambo and englishqueen. I know and you know many U.S. church officials are all for open borders because it helps keep pews full. I’ve long had my issues with U.S. church officials because of its liberalism on many issues.
But you do have to take the AP story with a giant chunk of salt. It bugs me to no end to see how these stories manage to bring the ugly from the atheists, left-wing trolls, and Catholic haters that haunt conservative fora and blogs. Did anyone really think the Pope was going to say, “Let these people croak in the desert! Ha ha ha!” No. I suppose if the Pope was in Mexico or any other Latin American country, he would be speaking about the poor left to rot in crappy shantytowns, which is (if you’ll forgive the liberal terminology) a root cause of illegal immigration.
Hmm. Citizenship of the Vatican City is granted iure officii, which means it is conferred upon some of those who have been appointed to work in certain capacities at the Vatican, and it is usually revoked upon the termination of their employment.
Do as I say, not as I do.
Sorry Catholic Church - non-Catholic liberals won’t join you despite your appeals to liberalism - they’re too busy with dhimmitude, and besides, it’s politically incorrect to be religious now (unless it’s islam, of course). You’ve just alienated (no pun intended) a large chunk of your existing congregation though - nice work!
#67 he shouldn’t have said anything at all! They’re illegal and they don’t belong here and we can pick and choose whom we want in our country!
“Speaking to his American bishops Wednesday, he said the U.S. must be welcoming to immigrants, helping them to flourish in their new homes.”
Does that mean we should welcome them with billions of dollars for education, welfare and healthcare while their here illegally!
Whose bring the casserole for the house warming?
No we cannot pick and choose who we want in this country.
We only wish.
You’re right Gayle but, if our politicians did their jobs we have the right as a nation.
xler8bmw - the key words here were hinted and discussed. From all I know…That was coming from Bush.
So the Pope shouldn’t have said anything? So you agree with all the muslum countries when he was speaking on faith and reason. Which by the way, were some of the strongest words spoken by a leader against that issue.
Being welcoming to immigrants and treating illegals humanely doesn’t mean you have to have a chaotic open border. Immigration control isn’t punitive, it brings order, security and fairness. So people shouldn’t interpret the Holy Father’s comments as an endorsement of open borders or as a slap at a border fence.
Maybe the Pope would like to invite all 12 or 20 million illegal immigrants in the US over to Vatican City to stay?
#78 Really can you read and understand english?
I don’t believe he was talking about muslim countries.
They weren’t coming from Bush and you know it!
This conversation is getting out of hand:
1. The Catholic Church needs to call poverty-enablers (like the Government of Mexico) out onto the carpet, and stop chiding the very nations who do the most to combat global poverty (like the United States) to “do even more” in attempts to balance out the inequity of commitment on the part of the poverty-enablers.
2. If the Catholic Church’s true goal is to remedy the uncomfortable topic of disparity between rich and poor, then they shouldn’t ignore Mexico’s mountain by focusing on the United State’s molehill. Basic economics should apply to religious reasoning as well.
3. It is troubling for the Catholic Church to render no official statement on the immigration policies of their host country, (Italy) while allowing a Vatican official to espouse the virtues of keeping the hordes of immigrants out of Italy in order to preserve cultural identity.
4. Where are our American Catholic leaders who can teach and administer the tenets of the Catholic faith AND uphold the virtuous interests of the United States; instead of instinctively lapping at the slippers of European socialism and deep-seeded anti-Americanism?
From MM’s Hotair. Even Tancredo read between the lines of the Pope Sambo (nice name just kidding)
Tancredo to Pope: Kindly quit being such an amnesty shill, your holinessposted at 12:02 pm on April 18, 2008 by Allahpundit
Send to a Friend | printer-friendly The boss has all the background you’ll need, although you might want to revisit the U.S. Bishops’ statement on the subject too. Church leadership is unified on this point and it’s not hard to see why. Not even Tancelot can slay the dragon of demographic reality:
While nearly one-in-three Americans (31%) were raised in the Catholic faith, today fewer than one-in-four (24%) describe themselves as Catholic.
These losses would have been even more pronounced were it not for the offsetting impact of immigration. The Landscape Survey finds that among the foreign-born adult population, Catholics outnumber Protestants by nearly a two-to-one margin (46% Catholic vs. 24% Protestant); among native-born Americans, on the other hand, Protestants outnumber Catholics by an even larger margin (55% Protestant vs. 21% Catholic)…
Latinos, who already account for roughly one-in-three adult Catholics overall, may account for an even larger share of U.S. Catholics in the future. For while Latinos represent roughly one-in-eight U.S. Catholics age 70 and older (12%), they account for nearly half of all Catholics ages 18-29 (45%).
Seal the borders and you may seal the fate of the Catholic Church in America. Which makes this year’s election mighty fortuitous for them: No matter who wins, the Church wins, too.
My bad, I assumed his thoughts on illegal emigrants are Catholic doctrine. So, let me put it this way, once again the Pope proves himself human which would qualify him as fallible in all things.
First, liberals are elitist.
Now catholics are elitist.
Who’s next?
Let me explain why Cardinal Mahony has never been reprimanded or paid any penalty for his bungling of sex abuses cases. (Contrast with Cardinal Law)
For a large proportion of non-elite Catholics in the Los Angeles Archdiocese, his open-borders policy trumps anything else. There has never been the grass roots pressure that was applied in Boston. I live in the Archdiocese and this is true, never talked about, and shameful.
Actually, we can and regularly do. It’s called legal immigration. In order to come to this country as something other than a tourist, you have to apply for a visa. The State Department that grants or denies approval (a.k.a. picking and choosing) based on whatever criteria are lawful, one of them being the reason you are coming here.
That question is beneath me and I’m not even going to answer it or you.
Ooh! Do I get to play semantics now? Yes, I know the headline of this article uses the term “Catholic elite”. In this sense, Mrs. Malkin is attacking elitism: the attitude that one thinks they know better than everyone else solely by virtue of their position (be it hierarchical or socioeconomic).
When we speak of Green Berets or Navy SEALs as being elite, we mean that in the sense that the entry requirements and expectations of such a position are high, not that they look down their nose at everyone else.
Quit playing fast and loose with the English language.
xler8bmw: So Tancredo interprets for the Pope? What the heck does that have with what the Pope has said or in this case…hasn’t said?
MattS (#65) makes a point that extends far beyond commentary by the clergy. Listening to amnesty and open borders advocates is almost alway frustrating and maddening because of their insistence on using the word “immigration” (or immigrants) when the discussion is almmost always about illegal immigration or illegal aliens. I assume these advocates are smart enough to know the difference between immigration and illegal immigration. Therefore I conclude that in most cases the adocates are trying to obfuscate the issues and apparently believe most of us who are opposed to amnesty and open borders are too stupid to see through their tactics. Lou Dobbs, Senator Sessions, and others are are often referred to as racists because of their views on “immigration”. They clearly are not racists, and attempts to paint them as such are pathetic and speak volumes about the character of most pro-”immigraton” advocates.
#90 I suggest you go back and get your GED because you have a problem reading context in sentences. Not everything is word for word.
Michelle,
I am Catholic and I strongly agree with your position on illegal aliens and immigration. I disagree with the following statement, however:
Implying that Pope Benedict’s position was business-driven is as irresponsible as implying that our position is racially-driven. You’re making a big assumption there, one that you cannot make with credibility. You’re pretty great, but you’re not a mind reader. (You aren’t, are you?)
While open borders could certainly benefit the Church in several ways, not the least of which is financially, it is wrong to assume that this is the reason for the pope’s position on the matter.
Pope Benedict is very precise in his words. I wouldn’t jump to the conclusion he was talking about illegal immigrants. On the other hand, I do feel like some of our Bishops are pushing the illegal immigrant thing.
I believe this flows well with why the founding fathers included this passage in the 1st Amendment:
The Catholic Church needs to worry more about the souls of the faithful instead of meddling in the laws of sovereign governments, unless they plan on providing jobs, food, clothing, housing, and healthcare for the illegal invaders in our mists. Their meddling in the affairs of other nations has given history wonderful atrocities such as the 30 Years War, Inquisition, Rape of the New World, etc. Didn’t Jesus speak of giving things belonging to Ceasar to Ceasar and those things belonging to God to God?
xler8bmw - I would suggest to you that Tancredo’s theory on why the Pope might want Mexican immigrants in America has NOTHING to do with this conversation.
Furthermore, anyone that thinks so should not comment on someone else’s intelligence
#96 it has everything to do with it!
Wow - I can only hope that is the silliest thing M.M. posts on this blog. The first motive is debatable. The second is not. The idea that illegal immigrants fill collection baskets is too funny to laugh at.
(OK, prove it!)
I will. I’ll let others speak for their diocese. In Los Angeles, there is an annual collection called “Together in Mission”. It is intended to support parishes, including schools, that are not fiscally self-supporting. I trust you don’t need to look at the program brochures to determine the demographics of these subsidized parishes.
The pope’s overall speech about America was great, but I agree that it is more about butts in the pews and he lost me on this one.
Out of bounds Pope Benedict, nunya business!
Good point, Corona, and one that I hadn’t even considered in my remarks just above, albeit related to a different argument from the one I was making - that it was an irresponsible statement from the beginning, not that it was an inaccurate statement.
Tancredo’s theories have nothing to do with the words that come out of the Popes mouth (Period)
Wow. Pot? Meet kettle. Kettle, pot.
I have just two words. Sarcasm and joke.
That was my impression as well. I’m with Michelle on this issue but I’m not convinced the Holy Father has any objection to “orderly” immigration. And for sure, some of these ultra liberal Bishops, especially those who lost control over those non-celibate priest, need to follow the laws. All of our laws. Period.
I haven’t read all the comments, but as a Catholic this kind of preaching makes me ill. If the Church is going to involve itself in American politics re: illegal immigration, why can’t it involve itself in prohibiting pro-abortion “catholics” from receiving communion?
This is exactly why I’m not getting my kid baptized. Too much Hispanic butt-kissing. Oh yeah, that and the sex abuse.
We were refugees in Rome while waiting to come to the US. My parents were turned away at first by the VAtican when they requested medical care for my infant sister who had extremely high temperature. Eventually, they gave her care, but only after my father shook the dust off of his shoes off (from the Bible, when JEsus told his desciples to do that if not accepted). The VAtican is guarded by guards and you need a special passport to get in. The Pope needs to look at his own house which is way too lavish for a man of God, as he claims to be, and stop telling us what to do. Also, fix his church in the US which is a disgrace.
#104 Wow how original!
I guess your not going to send them to schoo either.
Umm… the Pope lives in a small apartment in the Vatican.
I don’t agree with Pope Benedict on immigration, but his house isn’t lavish by any means. It’s in a beautiful building, no doubt, but he only has a few rooms. In the future, if you’re going to take personal swipes at others like that, you might want to be sure that you know what you’re talking about in advance.
Surely I’m not the only one that remembers the old saying:
“Love your neighbor, but build a tall fence”
I did a quick search to see if I could find an original source for the coloquial version, and it was Carl Sandburg:
“Love thy neighbor as yourself; but don’t take down the fence.”
I find it outrageous that bishops who moved around and protected child molester priests, would have the unmitigated gall to suggest that laws should be ignored when it comes to illegal aliens too. out of compassion, no. out of self preservation for the church coffers.
the unholy alliance between the sellout politicians like Bush and McCain and all dems, and the big business interests, and the church interests. they all combine to mean money for them, and misery for American citizens.
talk about taxation without representation. almost no one in all of Wash. stands up for the rights of American citizens to be free from illegal invasion.
Money talks, and sovereignty walks.
The Pope’s living is lavish, so are his cardinals’. Napoleon lived in a “small apartment” too (see the Louvre) but he lived a lavish life. Just look at the cardinals and the Pope himself, their clothes, jewelry. I have been to the Vatican so I do know what I am talking about. That apartment is not as simple as you make it out to be.
We keep tossing around orderly immigration or legal immigration. At what point will someone say it’s enough? Every time it fails to rain in California, Texas or Georgia they worry about running out of water. At what point do we declare our natural resources and their ability to sustain the population we have now is reaching critical overload? It’s great to think we have unlimited money and resources and should welcome the world’s disenchanted, disenfranchised, poor, under educated. After all, tax those that do have the ability to earn more than they need to sustain themselves and give it to those that cannot. Umm, more than one church out there holds that same view, as do our annointed politicians. I’m starting to feel that anyone that “expects or demands” your monetary support can be lumped together as elites.
Well, we once had slavery in this country, we treated Native Americans and Vietnam Veterans poorly, and Bill Clinton molested at least one and possibly several other women while serving in an official capacity, too. So while you’re overreacting, you better not raise your kids in the United States, either.
Pope:
Go home. You’ve overstayed your welcome just like all those illegal invaders you and your henchmen pander to, only to have U.S. pay for them.
Don’t come back.
Pedophile hypocrites.
Check your facts, Chick. None of that stuff belongs to them.
If I borrow my cousin’s BMW and crash on my buddy’s couch inside his big house, it doesn’t make me rich.
You may have been to the Vatican, but I’d bet my left one you haven’t been in the Pope’s house.