No, I’m not Bill Maher
The other day I criticized Catholic church leaders for their long-standing, radical, open-borders policies.
Some are now calling me “anti-Catholic” and likening me to left-wing Christian-hater Bill Maher.
Oh, for heaven’s sake.
I was raised Catholic. I benefited immensely from my Catholic high school education. I have deep respect for many Catholic leaders and intellectual leading lights. I continue to be inspired by Catholic pro-life activists.
But yes, I oppose the US Conference of Bishops’ unrelenting push for illegal alien amnesty and the Vatican’s subsidizing of illegal alien shelters for southern border-crossers, and the continued vocal opposition from Catholic officials to overdue immigration enforcement measures.
And no, I’m not a bigot for calling attention to their sovereignty-undermining agenda.
Despite the arguments I’m hearing from some Catholic conservatives that the Pope did not send an open-borders message during his visit this week (see Matthew Balan), pro-amnesty Catholic leaders are not backing down and they interpreted his remarks as an endorsement of their anti-enforcement, sanctuary-promoting activism:
…some members of the Catholic hierarchy said they were shocked that on the same day that Benedict and President Bush affirmed in a joint statement the need for a policy that treats immigrants humanely and protects their families, federal agents were conducting raids at five chicken plants. They arrested more than 300 immigrants accused of being illegal workers.
The timing was coincidental, immigration officials said, and it was not clear whether the pope had known about the arrests when he met with Mr. Bush.
But the raids surprised some American Catholic leaders, who are often on the forefront of advocacy for immigrant rights.
“I was stunned,” said Cardinal Roger Mahony, the archbishop of Los Angeles, the nation’s largest Roman Catholic diocese and one with many Hispanics. “I just feel these raids are totally negative. I thought it was very inappropriate to do it in such a blatant way when the pope was coming, when he has been so outspoken in defending the rights of immigrants.”
The American bishops have been consistently outspoken in favor of legislation to give legal status to illegal immigrants and expand legal avenues for immigrants to bring their family members from abroad.
They and other Catholic activists were among the most visible supporters of a broad bill, supported by Mr. Bush but not enacted by Congress last year, which included a path to legal status for 12 million illegal immigrants.
They took Benedict’s statements last week as affirmation of their work. For while the immigration theme has been overshadowed during Benedict’s trip by his denunciations of the sexual abuse scandal in the church, it was the second issue after the abuse cases that he addressed on the plane from Rome, when he responded to reporters’ questions that were submitted in advance and picked by the Vatican.
The separation of families “is truly dangerous for the social, moral and human fabric” of Latin and Central American families, the pope told reporters aboard his plane. “The fundamental solution is that there should no longer be a need to emigrate, that there are enough jobs in the homeland, a sufficient social fabric,” he said. Short of that, families should be protected, not destroyed, he said. “As much as it can be done it should be done,” the pontiff said…
…The pope also dwelled on the negative impact of family separation. Several bishops took that as a direct reference to the impact of previous immigration raids and deportations, in which illegal immigrant parents were separated from spouses and children who were United States citizens or legal immigrants.
Look. “Keeping illegal immigrant families together” is not the paramount constitutional duty of our government. There is nothing stopping illegal alien deportation fugitives, for example, from keeping their families together and taking them all back home if and when the law finally catches up with them.
Speaking of compassion for families torn apart, I still haven’t heard anything from Los Angeles Cardinal Roger Mahony about Jamiel Shaw’s murder and the permanent separation Shaw’s family suffered at the hands of the illegal alien gang member who murdered their young son, have you?
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Michelle Malkin = Courageous Voice of Reason
.
.
Bill Maher = Sobbering Liberal Sycophant
They are alike only in the sense of being polar opposites
In my rush to be first I left out the “L” in slobbering….
Now that is sad…
Sure everyone who wants to keep our country from being overrun by even more illeagal immigrant criminals who kill innocent Americans, and deport those who are already here and repeatedly break our laws and are caught and released are anti-Catholic,anti-American racists, or so I have been told.
But at the risk of being anti-pc lets get rid of those who don’t belong here and may-by open a slot or two for those who want to enter the country leagally.
Doesn’t sound like the Pope is echoing American Bishops call for open borders.
And correct, the family can travel back to where ever, together. No need for seperation except for political gain.
Michelle,
I agree, it is not about being against catholics, its the fact that churches, whether officially, or unofficially are promoting unlawful behavior with their sanctuary policies.
The feelings that were hurt in your other thread are probably because we are near the breaking point on this madness.
Keep up the great work, please do not waiver in your voice for those of us who can’t speak and be heard.
Too much!!!! I’m not Catholic..so I’ll say it. I don’t care what the Pope thinks of our immigration policies. I don’t care if an ILLEGAL is separated from his or her Family. If they cared enough for thier Family there wouldn’t be a separation. The Family would go along with the ILLEGAL. There is really no argument here people. If the Pope doesnt like whats going on then head south of the border and talk to them about taking care of their citizens!
Common sense people……it should rule the world!
zorro you miss the whole point. Once they start talking families, they are playing on sympathies and stop any reasoned thought on the problem.
Geez, doesn’t the Bible even say to follow the laws of the land???
Michelle,
Unfortunately, you are experiencing that old fallacy of interpretting your statements too broadly.
To criticize the Catholic Church’s stance on an issue is not to criticize Catholicism. You’re handling it very well, though.
OT: In the school where I study Photography in Costa Mesa, there has been a running exhibition on illegal immigrants. They are all holding up signs that say how unfair it is they have to look over their shoulders in fear of being arrested and sent back.
They just want the same treatment as the rest of us. I have to make a conscious effort to say nothing, lest I become the outcast at the hands of campus liberal ding-dongs.
PS: There’s a growing broo-ha-ha in San Juan Capistrano over a group that offers free medical care to illegals, and using a city-owned fire station to do it. The locals are not happy.
Michelle,
I am a practicing Catholic. I also go to a Catholic High school. I completely agree with you. I am tired of the Church trying to tell us it is a “humanitarian crisis”. Jesus explicitly said that government and religion are separate. “Give unto Caesar what is Caesar’s…” etc.
Thanks for your courage. I trust the Catholic Church for spiritual teachings, not their political statements.
Michelle,
I must have missed the part where you called the Pope a nazi…..
I understand rooster. The “they” you are referring to are the American Bishops. Not the Pope. Those Bishops are wrong and I personally have told the our new Bishop in Pittsburgh that the Church is obliged to obey the laws of the United States. We as a country should fence the border. We should deport the law breaking illegals as they are caught. We should deny forever the privilege of citizenship to all persons, anchor babies included, who are here ILLEGALLY. These are the reasons I cannot vote for McCain. On that we probably all agree.
What was totally disappointing to me was the unmonitored, non-stop Catholic bashing on the earlier thread. Disgusting.
The Pope is coming! The Pope is coming!
Suspend all law enforcement! It might offend the Pope! I didn’t hear the Pope condemning the carnage on the highways caused by drunken illegal immigrants.
LOL! I didn’t know whether to write that it should have been sobering or slobbering!!
Michelle and Maher are complete polar opposites, from opinions to looks!
The Pope and the Catholic Church are looking at amnesty as a means of increasing membership in the church, which has been faltering for quite a while, as most illegal aliens are hispanics from the south and predominantly Catholic.
The church completely overlooks the issue of sovreignty with respect to the U.S. or any other country. I wonder if the Pope criticizes Mexico for its considerably more extensive (and enviable) southern border control?
The Vatican ought to try and take in a few illegals. Even though it is small, it is quite rich, and hey, don’t those illegals deserve it? Let them walk a mile in our shoes, then they can point the finger.
Why is it that every time one diagrees with a group, they are called a bigot or something like that. These crazy PC tactics are silencing people with legitimate disagreement. In Canada and Britain, free speech and disagreement is already effectively outlawed. Is if happening here, de facto? soon it will be by law as well.
zorro,
The catholic church is not the only one providing sanctuary. The they, that I am referring is of any church affiliation.
I am an equal opportunity basher if it is about this nonsense pertaining to all these illegals invading our country.
Kudos to you for bringing this to the attention of your area church hierarchy.
Have you ever heard about chicken plants? I would say that it was humane and protecting the illegal immigrants families to get them out of there. That is a crappy place to work and they could get hurt there.
I stand by the statement that I made yesterday. I am Catholic, but I strongly disagree with the stance that many pro-illegal alien Catholic leaders have taken. I think their position is short-sighted, foolishly irresponsible, and ignorant.
I agree with MM more often than most, but I disagree with her implication that these leaders’ stance was a financial decision. It might be, for all anyone knows, but the point is just that – we don’t know. Such a statement about these leaders is just as irresponsible as saying that we conservatives who believe in enforcing our laws, securing our borders, and protecting our citizens only do so because of racism. It was an irresponsible statement on her part, and I’m disappointed that she hasn’t addressed this issue specifically. She has understandably dealt with the more radical, insane commentary that she is “anti-Catholic” and Bill Maher-esque first. These statements, of course, are FOOLISH. I hope she gets to my comment soon, though. I doubt that she would duck it; she may have just missed it.
I’m sure that most fancy their remarks quite rational, even the blithering idiots that made the above statements. However, I genuinely believe that this argument is more sound that most of the bumblings that come from my fingertips.
Somewhat strange that this posting was made at 9:48 PM on a Saturday night, though, Michelle.
Maybe you are ducking us Catholics, just a teeny bit. Heh, heh.
Like I have posted before, the Catholic Church rejected my refugee parents in Rome at first, though my baby sister had extremely high temperature. They turned them away until my dad shook the dust off of his feet (from the Bible) and then, they took my baby sister in to treat her. They were great after that in assisting us, we even corresponded with the nun that helped us for years before she passed away in France. She sent us a picture of the last Pope giving her a medal. We love that woman. However, I have every right to critisize the Catholic Church when I see it doing something wrong. that is not CAtholic bashing and I a tired when people call disagreement bashing or bigotry. Sometimes the truth hurts. I am just as critical of certain evangelical churches. It is our duty to speak the truth no matter what, if we don’t, churches will fall and become dead, like in Europe.
I didn’t hear “the church” or the Pope for that matter say that there should be open borders. It sounded to me that he thought that jobs should be provided in their homeland so they would not have to EMIGRATE. The Pope did say “emigrate.”
I too think it’s a shame when families are torn apart but he did not say that was your fault, my fault or anybody’s fault.
There are a lot of liberals like Mahoney in the Catholic church. That does not mean that the Catholic and Pope bashing that went on in the earlier thread should be allowed? Do you hold the Pope responsible for what the liberals in the Catholic religion do or think or say but you can’t even control the hate that obvious on your own site?
Krykee doodle.
Don’t let the b*st*rds get you down, MM.
It’s simply one more example of the dissonant leftist drivel fueled by their vacuous moral equivalence insanity.
It seems to permeate their collective adolescent mind.
And, as you rightly pointed out, ‘separation of families’ is a consequence to be shouldered more by the illegals themselves, than this governemnt.
I understand the church’s position, but yours is proven more pragmatic – people appreciate more those things that have to be earned.
So, just remember, when the dissonant leftist b*st*rds vilify you, it’s simply because they don’t like brown people.
Keep up the good work.
Dimsdale. What an appropriate name. The Pope is looking to increase membership in the church? The hispanics are already members of the church if they’re Catholic. You don’t have to come to America to join the Catholic church!
MM is not a fascist. She doesn’t seek to “control the hate.” When you attempt to control the hate you end up teaching English 101 at State U. and sponsoring taxpayer-funded Women’s HerStory Month meetings and Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual “Kiss-Ins” at the Student Center.
I’m Catholic. I take my faith very seriously, and am very vocal about how Catholics get trashed these days. It’s the last socially acceptable bigotry.
Michelle, you mentioned Mahoney and the US Bishops council. Both are completely useless. Mahoney should be defrocked (yes, defrocked) because of his actions and the positions he has taken, even just recently. Put him in the same class as Cardinal Bernadin of Chicago.
The council of Bishops get together twice each year and talk…and talk…and talk…and never, ever come up with anything of substance or meaning. If they speak out against the US government for cracking down on illegal aliens, then ignore them. In essence they’re telling people to ignore a perfectly valid law, both in the secular and moral sense.
Sorry you’ve been accused of being a Catholic basher. You’re not….at least, I’ve never seen any evidence of that. I certainly don’t see any evidence of bashing in criticism of that clown Mahoney or the Bishop’s Council. Mahoney is an embarrassment to the church, and should count his blessings that he’s not in jail.
I get real tired of these advocates that use the Good Samaritan as an example for us less enlightened. I point out to them that the Samaritan took pity on the man and he bandaged him and he took him to the inn and cared for him and he paid the inn keeper to care for him and he would return and settle the account out of his pocket. The Catholic Church seems very willing to spend the tax payers money.
Amen, Marshall.
Being Catholic doesn’t keep me from obeying the laws of this country. There
is nothing in the constitution that says that I, a Catholic woman, am absolutely immune from having to be a law abiding citizen. I am not so blinded by the church that I don’t know that it bought it’s way into this
country by selling Indulgences to wealthy citizens who were secret Catholics
in a Protestant Upstart Country that had just thrown off the Brits. Now, they
are spitting on the Constitution of our Country and I have had many, many
“discussions” with my Priest about what is happening with the illegals. He
keeps mumbling about “the least among us,” and I keep yelling about,
“rendering unto Caesar,” and we leave it at, we agree to disagree until next
time.
I was born to a catholic woman and raised by protestants.
What Michelle has done is called a spade a spade and exposed the Pope’s own hypocrisy on both political grounds and religious grounds.
Understand there was loads of pressure within the Church to seriously radicalize it as they were seeking a new Pope in ways far worse than Pope Benedict…
…It is a harbinger for struggles to come for the Catholic Church and its faithful
You make a valid point, RealImmigrantChick. I do believe that it is my duty, PC
or not, to speak out when I see something that is wrong. The road to Hades is
paved with good intentions and (I believe), with the silence of people that saw
wrong and did or said nothing about it. If we allow ourselves to be silenced by
screams of racism, bigotry, profiling, selfishness, etc., then, whatever happens
is even more our fault than the politicians, the priests, the preachers, the
liberals, and the Hispanic Americans that are trying to build a political base to
“take back” this country. Is this what we want for our children and grandchildren?
Interesting point Kevin. I fogot about about that.
Thanks, Zorro.
Michelle Malkin is to Bill Maher
as much as
Tom Coburn is to Bill Ayers.
(i.e. Not at all.)
Bill Maher is a Grade A A$$, who has diarrhea of the mouth. You may not always agree with Michelle, but she at least will always state facts to prove her point.
I am a (mostly) practicing Catholic. I have become very disillusioned with the number of changes that have become common place with the church. Supporting sancutaries for illegal aliens, complete reversal on the death penalty stance, and pushing a socialist agenda. For as conservative as JP II was and Benedict is, the underlings are very liberal.
Our church’s parish council is run by left wingers and has a bilingual Sunday service to accomodate the “new arrivals”. I have drastically reduced my weekly contributions, because I will not support blatent in your face support for illegal aliens.
It is tough watching people use your religion to ridicule and tear down our country whose existance is a guarantee they can practice their religion without fear.
You’d think that the Mexicans were war refugees, e.g., Sierra Leone. Sending them back is not going to lead to one of their limbs being chopped off.
Anyway, you can still be Catholic and disagree with the Pope politically. He is not “infallible” in this regard.
I keep getting calls to counsel illegals (for free) that had a rough time trying to get
to this country or, someone is being deported and the family is being torn apart
because either he is married to a white woman and there are at least 4 children,
(and they usually have a wife in Mexico, also) or the illegal alien wife won’t take
her anchor babies back to Mexico when husband is being deported. Then, there
are the ones that want me to help them get benefits for the legal anchor babies
because she has them hanging all over her and another on the way and they can’t
make enough money to support them. I keep saying no and keep hearing that I
am the worst kind of racist because this is my church asking and I keep turning
them down. I do do some free counseling..for American citizens that can’t afford the extra expense, and really need help.
Bottom Line is keep the churches out of political and security issues. Let them do what they know best, teach about Christ.If they teach us correctly we will do the right thing for all people.
I decided a long, long time ago that if the Pope was infallible he would be
called Jesus ( and I don’t mean Hay-soos).
foundingfathers,
In an article available in its entirety here Bill O’Reilly said the following:
Put simply, please consider that you may be throwing the baby out with the bath water. I share many of your frustrations with the church, but I try to remember that she is a human-run organization and so there will always be problems within her. Perhaps the answer could be found in another parish if you have one within driving distance.
I apologize if I’m overstepping my bounds, but I feel the same way that you do about this, I think. Good luck to you.
Exactly. Any family that is separated has made the choice to do so.
I don’t know of any Christian that agrees 100% with opinions from their church. Why should Michelle be held to a different standard?
All i can say is , Michelle don’t let them get to you . We Love ya , Not them
dam i did good , no name calling or Racist, Bigot stuff . pat myself on the back
The Pope is not infallible, nor has he ever been. He has the ability to issue infallible statements about Church doctrine when speaking “ex cathedra.” This rarely happens.
The Pope is just a regular guy with a heavy mantel of responsibility. Pretzels make him thirsty.
One would think that Mahony and all other “Catholic leaders” would think abortion is truly dangerous for the social, moral and human fabric of the US, considering the permanent separation of families, and hold those who support abortion accountable.
Catholic church leaders who fancy themselves politicians or champions of social change piss me off. Many tend to do what is politically correct.
As for anyone in the Catholic church paying attention to and following Catholic teachings, why should any Catholic pay attention to any of the leaders if the leaders of the Catholic church encourage their followers to ignore other laws, such as illegal immigration?
I like Benedict since he tends to espouse what is right. Far too many other American Catholic leaders tend to ignore the stuffy old man and do what is acceptable in San Fransicko, LA, Chicago, or New York.
I’m one of those people that do believe that the Catholic church wants to see more illegal immigrants from Latin America come to the U.S. because they want to increase attendance… and thereby increase the number of donating members. The problem is that many of these illegals do not contribute to the church. My mother-in-law has talked frequently about the number of illegals in her Chicago parish. Few volunteer to help with church business. Even though they increase the attendance numbers at Mass, they do not donate money. They are often needy and not self-reliant, choosing to live on the charity and graciousness of other people… almost as if they expect it and are entitled to it.
well I have heard it all a “Catholic” – anti-Catholic. You are correct in rendering sovereignty unto the USA. (render unto Caesar)
This is not an issue for the Church to be involved in.
If people think their faith is being attacked by just criticisms and observations regarding the position of the leaders of the Church, perhaps their hold on their faith is not all that secure.
It was silence that fueled a problem with a few priests decades ago into a full blown crisis today.
Religion flourishes in this Country because of the recognition of religious practice as a right and because of the separation of Church and State. Anyone advocating a course of conduct that jeopardizes the welfare and standing of the US imperils not only the US, but threatens the very foundations of the strongest advocate for freedom and liberty in the world today. And the motives of such people are rightly questioned when they have direct or indirect interests in supporting actions that run contrary to the best interests of the US. No matter who they are or what their religious affiliation happens to be.
Facts are stubborn things. While everyone is entitled to form their own opinions, no one is entitled to form their own set of facts. And the facts regarding this issue lead to probabilities that the actions of Rome and its US leadership involve more than a modicum of self interest and self preservation.
Michelle:
You’re grasping at straws if you accuse the Pope of encouraging lawbreaking.
As far as Father Mahoney, he’s persona non grata in a lot of Catholic circles. If you want to beat up on an amnesty shill, direct it his way since he deserves it, but please don’t pretend a two second soundbite of the Pope calling for compassion for immigrants is tacit approval for amnesty.
It’s the same faulty logic the left uses whenever they accuse you of wanting to set up a neighborhood Gestapo because you believe illegals with dangerous tendencies should be kicked out of the country before they commit crimes, preferably by local concerned citizens calling ICE.
The amnesty shills will take whoever they can get. They’ll warp the Holy Father’s words if they have to, which shows you just how far the political cancer has infected some among the clergy.
I think one should realize that the political and the moral are two related, although separate, issues. That illegal immigrants should be treated humanely in a way that respects the dignity proper to them isn’t something on which Catholics in good conscience can disagree. What that entails politically is a separate issue. The Pope and the upper clergy in general aren’t infallible in terms of what the political solution is, but they are infallible in that it needs to treat the immigrants humanely. I think that’s something that’s too easily lost in the debate. When the Bishops oppose the crackdown on illegal immigrants, they’re doing so because they see those efforts as having inhumane consequences, and, in some instances, inhumane intent.
Are they right to see the laws that way? If you recall, the thing that first really prompted the Bishops, especially Archbishop Mahoney to publically take a stand to the national press was an attempted law two years ago that would’ve made it illegal to provide any sort of material aid, including food, to illegal immigrants. That would’ve had clearly had inhumane consequences, and I think it’s safe to say that some of the supporters of that bill were indifferent to the fact the human dignity of illegal immigrants. Since then, the debate has been largely between advocates of open-borders and advocates of not letting them have any food. If those are the only two options, then it is pretty clear what a Catholic is obliged to be for. Of course, those aren’t actually the only two options. The USCCB as a whole doesn’t know what the solution is because they aren’t political scientists (and neither am I). But they do know that any solution has to be moral; i.e., it has to respect the human dignity of the illegal immigrant.
Also, TXRose, the Church did not buy her way into America with indulgences. They colonized America with Catholics fleeing oppression from England into Mary land, and then fleeing English oppression and blight in Ireland, and then fleeing political upheaval and/or anti-clericalism in Italy, Germany, and Poland.
Methinks the American Cardinals mostly didn’t get the Pope’s memo (H/T Baldilocks) regarding Liberation Theology. That and US Cardinals bamboozling the Pope as to what’s really going on.
After all, the early sanctuary (for illegal immigrants, back in the 70s/80s) church movement was led by a number of priests attracted to liberation theology. As we plainly see now, the cancer has spread to the upper echelon, because they were swayed by emotional aspects of this issue. Instead of firmly adhering to Biblical tenets, such as obeying the govt, giving unto Caesar,two wrongs not making right, etc.
To whit, substitute “open-borders” for liberation and we see these leaders are guilty of the very thing the Pope warned about in his essay:
By aiding and abetting illegal immigration in the name of open-borders, we compound the problems on multiple fronts:
1) Mexican govt is let off the hook for continued corruption & the miserable existence of its lower-classes
2) Once upon a time, it may not have been a “big” deal to sneak in for work. But when work requires stealing IDs and the slew of social burdens, then it’s wrong
3) Cheap illegal labor oppresses the very people looking for better opportunities
4) And it allows our politicians to kick the can down the road with regards to reforming immigration & guest worker programs.
And so on and so on…
My advice to the Pope, before condemning us “racists” for wanting a secure border, please re-examine your position.
I think the Pope should offer all illegals tickets to Rome paid for by the Catholic Church and guaranteed jobs for a living wage and free medical care when they get there. When he does this, he may then lecture us on immigration policies.
Or, he could let all the Muslims in and give them the same deal.
It is the Church’s position that they wealthier countries provide compassionate refuge to those of less fortunate nations, to the extent they are able to do so.
When the exercise of compassion starts closing hospitals because of unpaid services, exposing the population to diseases and ailments previously eradicated in this country long ago, and strains the infrastructure and increases the tax burden on working people, there is a very good argument that the supporting country has exceeded the limits of its ability to honor the desires of the Church.
Perhaps more importantly, those preaching compassion to justify illegal immigration always leave out the following statement from the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
Those here illegally have obviously not obeyed the laws of the US, and contrary to assisting in carrying the civic burdens of their new host, they have increased that burden to and in many cases beyond the breaking point. And with the focus on “Mexico first” by the likes of LaRaza and MeCHA, the entitlement mentality and demands are the antithesis of gratitude. As for respecting the material and spiritual heritage of the US, there is nothing but disrespect and disdain reflected for anything American. The May 1 work stoppages and protests, flying the Mexican flag, flying the American flag upside down, identity theft, failing to pay taxes, and the murders, robberies, rapes and other felonies committed against US citizens on a daily basis, are just a few of examples of the respect, gratitude and lawful obedience offered by those we treat with compassion.
Perhaps Cardinal Mahoney and his US counterparts need to go back to Sunday School to refresh their knowledge of Church doctrine.
Cardinal Mahoney is upset about the raids? I am upset about Mahoney protecting child rapers. And Benedict was a member of this church hierarchy when this took place. These jokers lecture us? Let them all rally the family back together South of the border. We do more for this world than any other country including the Vatican and we are constantly lectured to do more. Screw the Pope, Bush and Mexico. There I said it and it felt good. Wow look at that….no lightning bolt.
Well said, Joy! And I’m right with ya, Michelle. I am getting more and more angry every day with the Catholic hierarchy. They are getting so “in-your-face” with their blatantly anti-American sentiments (anti-American sovereignty, that is). The audacity of the U.S. Government for conducting raids when the pope was here! Huh? WTH?
Guess what the brand new bishop in Des Moines, Iowa’ first words in public were? I don’t know, they were in Spanish.!!
Just remember the reason we’re being regaled by the railings of phony baloney Mahony is because with every raid, he’s losing ground, if he had already realized his dream of a dominant church by way of foreign parishioner merge, we wouldn’t be hearing a peep.
Guess its really fortunate for Mexicans that they’re Catholics instead of practicing a faith like the Hindus who have to come here the hard but legal way.
I agree.
Mrs. Malkin, I don’t think you are anything at all like Bill Maher.
Also, to all the conservatives on here, if you guys would, well, you know, HAVE KIDS, we wouldn’t need immigration. And this “American Dream” BS of two kids per family WON’T cut it!
I’m SICK AND TIRED of your complaining about the Catholic Church! This has EVERYTHING to do with Protestant fears among the Afro and Anglo communities that Catholicism will supercede them!
How can you possibly be pro-family and support policies that seperate them? You what happens then? They need the GOVERNMENT to step in and care for them.
Splitting up immigration families = more votes for DEMOCRATS.
So enforce that law at your own peril, republicans.
I’m out.
Roger Mahony should be in JAIL for his blatant enabling of child molesters and rapists, reassigning them time and again to rape other children again and again, and he knew exactly what he was doing. then the stonewalling of the authorities and the nasty high priced lawyers smearing the victims who had the courage to speak out and hold the church accountable.
no child is safe as long as Roger Mahony is in power in the LA diocese.
and this is on top of all his disrespect for the laws of his own country and the legal immigration process which we hold dear. he makes a mockery of it every single day.
Why doesn’t Benedict go to Mexico -visit with Calderon-and as a guest of THAT country – tell them to “straighten up” and end the corruption so that the people of Mexico don’t have to illegally cross the US border to make a living.
Have the Pope take Mahoney and Mayor V. with him!
Thanks Michelle for truth telling- again.
What’s wrong with an ostensibly apolitical organization such as the Catholic church seeing a world with no borders, while political states enforce sovereignty?
The Catholic church and our national interests are naturally at odds, and that’s just fine, at least in the USA.
BTW, the “Modern Commentaries” blog linked in the article has posted a statement to Michelle in the form of an apology…
Yeah, you are out.
An ineluctable fact about the worldly Mahoney:
The closure of L.A. parish churches and parochial schools and the lay-off of diocesan employees so their financial needs would not interfere with the building of his Taj Mahoney.
Last I checked, a bigot was someone who discriminated against someone because they had a certain set of beliefs, was a certain ethnicity, or a certain race. Also, there is usually some racial/ethnic slur thrown in for good measure.
But last I checked, Michelle didn’t use any racial/ethnic slurs nor did she discriminate a group of people. It wasn’t all immigrants just the illegal ones key term, illegal as in someone who does not follow the law.
Bill Maher and his anti-Catholic sentiments is bigotted because he is discriminating against a group of people for their beliefs but no, he would never be called such.
I have been thinking about why some people would go crazy when we point out their flaws. I came to me all of a sudden, PCMC is the culprit. You see we have been playing PCMC for 20 or more years and having self censored ourselves issues were never ever discussed for fear of offending someone somewhere. Catholics are more sensitive about being criticized because they have been one of the few groups that have not benefited from the PCMC silence. Don’t feel bad though Catholics times are changing and we are going to see more people and groups that used to be off limits getting their fair share of criticism, we already are, finally. Many people have completely forgotten how to handle criticism. Some of us have never even experienced criticism before it is a major shock we need to be prepared for their reaction which might be hostile. Just another reason that the truth about anything and everything no matter how painful or uncomfortable is best for all of our futures. The eradication of PCMC should be one of our main goals. PCMC is one reason someone can equate Bill with MM, many people don’t know the difference because the difference is not discussed.
Why don’t we hear the Democrats, atheists and the ACLU whining about the separation of church and state when the political leader of the Vatican City butts in?? And within our own borders as a guest.
Its not the duty of the United States to create jobs for the Mexicans. If this guy feels so bad for them, then he can orchestrate a jobs program in Mexico out of all the billions his city-state takes in from their followers around the world.
The United States is a much more generous nation than his city-state!! This guy really has a pair!
I don’t see anywhere in the statement by the Pope where he supports ILLEGAL immigrants. He speaks about IMMIGRANTS. To confuse the idiot Mahoney with the Pope is not the way to go. We catholics see Mahoney in the same light as the rest of you.
We are against ILLEGAL immigration just like the rest of you.
Cool your jets, people. Malkin’s position is so NOT anti-catholic. Anyone making that accusation is simply trying to be offended.
I am a Catholic, but am in disagreement with Bishop Mahoney and the Catholic Bishops with regards illegal immigration and amnesty for illegals. This is aggravating. I’ve known Bishop Mahoney from way back when, and he really takes up the cudgels for illegals.
Kevin,
I realize the church has what my dad always called the “human element”. I haven’t left the church and not planning on it. But as with our society today you are seeing major divisions in longstanding theological and moral teachings. I cannot see how anyone who believes in abortion, homosexuality, and socialism (as several examples) can call themselves Catholic or Christian. It seems the Episcopal church is already experiencing the fractures.
I see good works and people everyday from the Catholics and Christians alike. But I also see the meanings of words being changed. A big example is the word “tolerance”. I don’t think Jesus would have tolerated much of the behavior that is being accepted today.
All major religions have the spiritual side and a business side. The business side can be an eye opener. I don’t think you overstepped your bounds.
That’s not likely to happen so long as Mexico’s most industrious people continue to leave. Could you imagine if our founding fathers had skipped out of town and ran away from the colonies instead of fighting for their freedom from the English? “But the Pope said it was OK!” they might’ve yelled behind their back to the people they dropped in their wake as they turned tail and ran.
What the Catholic Church should be doing is teaching the people of Mexico and other impoverished countries how to improve their own plight rather than encouraging them to run away from their problems. The Pope is encouraging the corruption and poverty to continue unabated, not solving the root cause.
But instead the Pope seems be in agreement with the American employers and politicians who are exploiting these people. They adhere to a new version of the proverb:
This has created another unusual situation that only exacerbates the problem. While it’s true that many illegal aliens are working to send a portion of their pay back to their home countries, from the perspective of those that receive the money it is tantamount to welfare. It may temporarily ease their burden but for many, in the long run their plight will only worsen, just as it did for many welfare recipients in America. The situation isn’t precisely analogous but they are very similar.
The best thing that could happen for Mexico and other countries to the south of our border is for all of the illegal aliens, along with their families, to take what they’ve learned here in America back to their own countries and improve the conditions there for everybody. The Catholic Church should not only be encouraging them to do so but also providing them with the necessary knowledge to make it happen.
Mexico needs to pick itself up by it’s bootstraps but can’t because all of the heavy lifters have left. To continue to exploit these people to the detriment of their home countries is not “compassionate”; it’s atrocious.
To continue to exploit these people to the detriment of their home countries is not “compassionate”; it’s
atrociousimmoral.um, michelle, since you routinely rag on the gop leadership far more harshly than you did the catholic establishment for their equally stupid positions on this issue, does that mean you are “anti-gop” and similar to, say, randi rhodes too?
/illustrating absurdity by being absurd
i never took offense, i just assumed you were still catholic.
Straight Talk Luigi in #54 quotes the AP story on what the Pope said about separating families.
No one knows what the question asked of the Pope is. Only what his answer was and not in any context to any question.
I find it very interesting that there is this evisceral feeling on both sides about what is meant by the quote and the context that the quote is attributed to.
I have been reading MM for a while and until recently was unable to comment because she keeps her house in order and you have to get in legally to the site. How is it that this group of normally intelligent and discerning people can allow a report by the AP create the chaos that now exists? Instead of going after the Pope for an innocuous statement how about finding out what question was asked and then we can see how the AP twisted the answer.
Just a thought.
Great idea, and so Popish, we could deport those 55,000 illegals, who have committed 450,000 felonies and are refused home country reparation, to the Vatican. Sure sounds like the right thing to do.
If the Pope understood what a wonderful country of immigration America is, 2 million every year and 8 work visa programs that are sustained by jobs Americans will do, he would not dare approach the subject unless to praise it (65,000 of these jobs make it that much more difficult for college graduates to find suitable employment). With a population of 800 the Vatican is the smallest independent state in the world.
I’m Catholic, but I don’t recall any catechism lessons requiring followers of the Vatican to aid, endorse or otherwise sanction illegal immigration.
Good points expat. The the “filling the pews” accusation remains. Still no response on that one.
zorro,
The filling the pews is a statement made by MM and/or her contributors, I believe.
As to filling the pews, I read somewhere, and now I have to follow my own advice and research this, that the Catholic Church was the second fastest growing denomination in the world. I don’t see there being a problem filling the pews except in the US. As has been pointed out here and on other strings the problem with the US is the arrogance of the Bishops and Cardinals who are left leaning socialists wearing priests vestments. None of us like the Mahoneys of the world and we express our dislike by not attending.
As I said I did not see anywhere that the Pope made any reference to “filling the pews”.
I could be wrong by don’t think so.
If the Vatican actually believes that unchecked immigration will “fill the pews”. Then I can only note that someone needs to put the sacramental wine back in the cabinet. This is the USA and freedom of religion is a very useful antidote for monolithic thinking.
As for being deemed anti-Catholic; no worries. Once Obama ascends the throne we will all be deported to Pennsylvania to work in the arugula fields. Thus ends my paranoid rant of the week.
expat,
Zorro is referring to the question I pose here (see his link, which is the same as mine).
The Pope has his own country; he may have his opinion.
We have our immigration laws and, at the moment, our sovreignty; he may go home now.
You’re right on target Michelle. Immigration policy is the sole domain of our sovereign state. We love him but frankly, the Pope needs to stay out of the state’s business.
Why Chicken Workers?
It seems that chicken workers are targeted for first arrest…not deportation….because they arrest then let them go…so it is all for show.
But Gang Members…killers…criminals are given the red carpet…somebody chicken here?????
Kevin,
Got it. You do ask a good question at the end.
terristeelmagnolia said, “Geez, doesn’t the Bible even say to follow the laws of the land???”
Interesting question. Should we follow the law of the land, written by man, or should we follow God’s law:
The Apostle Paul certainly wrote, “Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities…” (Romans 13:1, NASB) — BUT — does this mean that we are free to use man’s law in order to promote our own self-interest at the expense of others who are suffering?
The Catholic Church is simply arguing that the Biblical commands for justice and righteousness are not superseded by the national borders drawn by man.
Anyone who believes they can draw a contrary argument from Scripture, please do so. I have yet to see one that was convincing.
The Catholic Church’s only focus should be on helping illegals safely get back to the countries they came from. They should not be helping illegals break the law. Along with this, the Catholic Church should encourage Mexicans to fight for rights and a better government in THEIR OWN COUNTRY to make it a better place.
As the person who made the comparison of MM with Maher I feel the need to respond. I whole heartedly apologize for that horrible analogy. Even though the effects may be the same, I should have taken into account the motives. Bill Maher is a hater, MM is not. In my defense, I had just come from reading about Maher’s “apology” and was somewhat fired up. I know that MM is not a bigot and am sorry for even suggesting that she was.
No sense writing a long comment on this that’s going to swallowed up in dozens more long comments, so I will just say…
Coming from a Catholic who couldn’t be any more in line with orthodox Church teaching and resepct for the Holy Father if I tried, I believe Michelle is right on the money. The Vatican/Pope and bleeding heart conservatives are completely in the wrong on this.
Wonder why the Holy Father isn’t chastizing “Catholic” Mexico for its abhorent treatment of its own citizens.
P.S.
Michelle, you should post a bunch of the comments that are in line with your criticisms, because I doubt the naysayers who visit your blog will take the time to scroll through your comments section, but they will notice if you have some posted right there front and center. Why suffer alone? You have a lot of good Catholics defending you.
“I’ve known Bishop Mahoney from way back when, and he really takes up the cudgels for illegals.”
He takes it up the cudgels for the homosexuals, and the “womyn priests” as well. He also is one of the Bishops who got off scott-free after moving priest pedophiles around to different parishes when he knew full well what they were doing. So, he takes it up the cudgels for pedophiles, too. He’s a flaming liberal that barely reflects anything that is authentically Catholic.
Agree w/78 and Michelle. We are a nation of laws.
“I don’t see anywhere in the statement by the Pope where he supports ILLEGAL immigrants. He speaks about IMMIGRANTS.”
Oh please, he’s referring to illegals. I would bet my first-born child on that.
We don’t have a problem with immigration in this country. We have a problem with ILLEGAL ALIENS and a busted border.
Therefore, it stands to reason that by mentioned “immigration” at all he was referring to illegal aliens.
I don’t think the Holy Father solidly understands the problems America is facing on this issue (which is all the more reason he should respectfully stay out of it) and threfore he may genuinely (out of lack of solid information and knowledge) think that “illegal aliens” and “immigrants” are the same thing.
Regardless, it’s none of his business.
TXRose, your comment above made me think of a movie, Boondock Saints. Probably one that most people never saw, but was about 2 Catholic brothers that took matters into their own hands and turned vigilante when everyone else turned their heads. It had a part about a Priest preaching on this to his congregation. Strange movie that flips back and forth from present to past, but worth watching. I still agree with separation of church and state.
A: Bill Maher requires much, much more foundation and tv makeup to go his show than MM does..
B: Bill Maher is pretty freaking ugly.. only way he can get anywhere with the ladies is at the play boy mansion and use his ‘celebrity’ status.
C: Bill Maher is a miserable little man who tells only one side of a narrative if only to twist the nose of that side..
these are a few of the ways that Bill Maher, or BM (No, I won’t do that, that would be childish) is NOT MM..
I agree that the tenacious Michelle is not Bill Maher, yet I continue to ponder her motives for opening her former topic with a blast targeting the Pope. IMHO, using a sound bite from the AP was beneath her well tuned abilities. Yes, I am a fan, and yes I still am shocked that she was so quick to jump on the Bash A Pope bandwagon as Maher does regularly.
Christians who rush to judgement of my Catholic Pope do themselves a diservice. The Pope is the recognized leader of the christian movement, and everyone should be aware that we christians are targeted by not just the terrorists espousing the ‘religion of peace’, but by many Americans as well. Believe what you will, but be certain that those targeting the Pope have you in their sights as well. Such are the facts.
I am against the ILLEGAL Alien Amnesty movement more than most. I have yet to see Benedict offer support to that movement. Yes, he does continue to support sanctuary for those in need. You will too if you ever find your life threatened in a foreign land.
Jesus Christ tossed out the money changers while offering assistance to theives, prostitutes, and other social outcasts. Such is Christianity.
Please excuse me as it is time for me to go ‘dust off my halo’ [as our priest puts it]. Hope to see you in church!
I was thinking about the “fill the pews” slur thrown around here. While at Holy Mass this morning, I sat behind a couple of guys with Teamster shirts on. Unions kingpins are the big contributors to the Church around here in Western PA. Could it be their influence ($$$) on the Church that has lead to the open borders stance? The motivation being, rather than “filling the pews” more likely “filling the polls”.
One last point, of all the Pope bashers here, how many are John McCain supporters?
As far as I am concerned it is the compassionate thing to do and it will stop the drain on our tax paid services if they take their anchor babies with them.
zorro,
post #93
Good point with the teamsters.
That can’t be the only reason why the hierarchy is supportive of pro-illegals.
Counting the days until the protests on May Day!!! Let us see who participates in the marches this year.
Thank you Jim M, I think your comment bears repeating:
I can only add that perhaps the Vatican should first practice what they preach back in Rome before they cast stones at us.
Hmmm, a tourist should take along a sleeping bag, attempt to camp out inside Saint Peter’s Basilica after closing hours and then tell the Swiss Guard that he deserves to not only stay there but that his family should be able to come there too! When the tourist gets thrown out on his ear we can all then demand the Holy See ‘legislate’ tourist rights to live with their families inside the Vatican. Is my analogy unfair? Got sovereignty?
foundingfathers,
I think we have a lot in common.
Behead those who insult Catholics! (just kidding) Really, if the church is lecturing the US on immigration, maybe the Pope can go to Mexico and Central/South America and have a little talk about how they utilize their resources.
In other words, the church should be pushing for an end to corruption in places like Mexico that makes their economy less viable, and keeps their people impoverished, thus impacting stability in the rest of the continent.
As a life long(63years) Catholic…Catholic grade school, HS and college, eucharistic minister, parish council president, and spouse of a 25 year Catholic school educator, I have but one comment:
There used to be a term “Fallen Away Catholic”. Although I no longer attend weekly Mass, I don’t consider myself a fallen away Catholic, the Catholic Church has fallen away from me.
I’m sick and tired of having to say this again and again….
INVADERS,….. GET OUT!!!!!!!