LA Times Goes Wall-to-Wall on Special Order 40
The discussion over Jamiel’s Law and of the LAPD’s Special Order 40 isn’t dying down, and the LA Times is doing something useful and covering the controversy in detail. Their “full coverage” page is here. Also of interest is their “40-on-40″ mass editorial in which they’ve asked 40 “prominent” L.A. residents (well, actually, 39 plus my friend Patterico), for 40 words on Section 40. Among them is a sharp point by advice columnist Amy Alkon:
If I want a job cleaning your company’s toilets, I’ll have to present proof of citizenship and swear under penalty of perjury I’m legal, but if I mug you, beat you, and leave you for dead, it’s no questions asked?
They’ve got a much longer interview with pseudonymous LAPD officer, NRO contributor, and Patterico-co-blogger Jack Dunphy.
The debate is an interesting one because it breaks up some traditional coalitions. Among the voices on the right were two smart conservative professors, James Q. Wilson and Doug Kmiec, advocating an extension of Special Order 40 on the grounds that it helps police do their jobs. Kmiec thinks exceptions should be made in the case of “known gang members”, which I expect is how the compromise will eventually be drawn.
Meanwhile, traditional Democratic constituencies are riled by this as well. Several black activists and community leaders quoted there are pushing for Jamiel’s Law.
You know, border security just can’t get anywhere with conservatives alone. The Shamnesty bill and the DREAM act last year got smacked down again and again both because of conservative advocacy but also because some Democrats (I believe motivated by labor concerns). And now LA is considering a revision to a policy that protects illegal alien criminals because of pressure not only from conservatives but also from black activists. Progress is made through coalitions.
It’s a good reminder that politics is the art of building coalitions, and border-security advocates need to remain on the lookout for potential allies in unexpected places.
Which reminds me–one reason the open-borders lobby tries so hard to smear all border-security types as “anti-immigrant” and “know-nothing” is to make us radioactive and prevent the formation of these winning coalitions. We need to keep proving them wrong. It’s a fine line we’ll need to walk between expressing our justified outrage at the perversion of law and the threat to security that unchecked illegal immigration represents, but tempering our zeal with humility and charity where it’s appropriate.
That’s not a call for wishy-washiness or even compromise, but it is a warning about prudent politics and not walking into the traps the open-borders lobby tries to set. So please, think carefully about what you say and how you say it.
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If they would just start by deporting 5 busloads of gangbangers a day, they could make a huge difference and send a big message in a very short time. That would also force the open boredrs crowd to take a stand against deporting gangbangers or shut up- a tough call for them.
The funds for this program could easily be raised privately.
Brilliant essay.
Can we blame the Pope? (just kidding)
It would be nice if they get this passed, but being where it is I think it’s going to be a rather tough task. Here is hoping something good happens for a change.
Daily News’ (LA) Ed. Page – one editorial title for today:
Changing Special Order 40 won’t end city’s violence…
That take seems to be the running thread through out the D News.
See why I will no longer be subscribing to DN when my “time is up”.
We – here in CA – have been doing “battle” with the open borders crowd for a VERY long time.
I am so glad for MM making it a national issue. Thanks Michelle
LA Times proactive for the common good of its citizens, unbelievable! Very, very much appreciated.
What’s Chertofs position on this?
The saying “politics makes strange bedfellows” did not just come up out of the blue on day…..we work with those who work with us on this most important issue to all Americans.
I agree. It would certainly be good to see this passed. However, as porous as the border is, one wonders how long it will take a gangmember to simply get his friends to get him back across the border…possibly before the paperwork is done for the deportation.
C-Dubya,
Your points on building coalitions is very wise. If conventional wisdom had prevailed on Shamnesty last year, it should have prevailed with both houses of congress controlled by Democrats…it did not…which means someone from the democrat persuasion had to also be against it.
are wise –oops
We don’t need to waste money on deportation. Just enforce the laws and they will leave, ask Prince William County, VA. They picked up the “Welcome” mat on the past several months and next thing they know over 600 students mysteriously stopped showing up in the public schools. Guess where they are going…the Promised Land… aka the Peoples Republic of Maryland.
Takoma Park, MD will welcome them with open arms, give them legal driver’s licenses, and let them vote in the local elections . Not to mention all those free (taxpayer funded) perks that will be provided. There are areas of entire shopping centers in Takoma Park that if you can’t speak or read Spanish you can’t read the names of the stores or shop.
Don’t bring up the murders and DUI/DWI fatalites caused by illegal aliens in Maryland and you are branded the “R” word..Racist.
I would back down to “check legal status of anyone arrested for a felony or questioned as a suspect for a felony” which would help out with the recent “not a suspect, but a person of interest (who is really our prime suspect but we don’t want to allow the rights of a suspect)” problem.
jt3151. I agree. It was never a problem of not enough money, just permission. There are plenty of volunteers available today to defend our country just like they did back at Lexington and Concord.
The other problem is activist judges blocking implementation of congress’ will.
When liberals can’t argue with you logically, they call you names. It seems in some areas, like PW County, that when the laws start being enforced, the illegals flee to new feeding grounds.
I have faith in the American people. They will come to realize that some in our government do not have our best interests as their primary concern. I am so sorry it took the death of this young man for some groups to realize it. I pray they get their message out. I wonder if they will have enough clout to ask Obama why he supports open borders. They may find his response hard to digest with their reality. That is if he doesn’t give them platitudes.
The Law: Section 274 felonies under the federal Immigration and Nationality Act, INA 274A(a)(1)(A):
A person (including a group of persons, business, organization, or local government) commits a federal felony when she or he:
First person on Federal list of criminals: L.A. Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa
I bet his arrest would get the attention of Special Order 40 supporters for they too are subjects of Federal arrest. They are all undocumented Federal felons.
#10, we need physical deportation as well.
One of the costs of physical deportation, to the illegals, is “stuff”.
Since they usually don’t tell where their stuff (physical assets and family) is, that stuff doesn’t go back with them.
When they liquidate the goods with a high cost to move and flee homeward, they do get to keep their stuff.
It is a two-prong attack, each part complements the other.
The punk selling an album with the title in English of “They can’t deport us all” is correct. The twits saying we cannot stop them all from working somewhere somehow are correct.
We can reduce how renumerative it is to be here illegally by forcing them deeper underground with the usual related costs.
We can make it more likely that the employer will be caught and broken financially and otherwise.
These things are mostly against the less law-breaking illegals. It does nothing about the gangs who are on nobody’s payroll anyway. But thinning the herd makes it easier to spot them, and more likely that the gang-bangers will overstep against their own communities and get pointed out if in nothing other than self-defense.
recap
If we stop deportations, then all the illegals who wist to stay need to do is to find money sources and they can stay here.
Can you say “Crime Wave”?
or much larger crime wave anyway, and blamed on enforcing US laws.
I am not against physical deportation. I should have been a little more clear. Many supporters of illegal immgrants make the claim you can’t deport 20 million people. You don’t need to deport them all, but enforcing laws would encourage many to leave.
I have no problem deporting those who are here illegaly.
Since it’s still fresh in people’s minds, why not take up a collection (how ironic…) and deport the illegals not back to Mexico, but to Rome — and let Pope Benedict and his “posse” take care of ‘em.
He feels like he can criticize our treatment of illegals in our country, let him take his best shot.
Can’t you just hear the outcry by the poor Italians when the first couple plane loads of illegals set up camp on their soil?
Hey, Benny, put up or shut up.
Terri, re:#14,
Yes…, nice post & well spoken. I too
have faith in the American people, & the fact that “some in our government do not have our best interests as their primary concern”
is like the city on the hilltop, it can not be hidden,(much longer).
And yes, Christian Soldier #4 re: “I am so glad for MM making it a national issue. Thanks Michelle”.
Thank you Madame Hostess, from sea to shining sea… if left (no pun intended) to the MSM this issue would be DOA.
More criminals came here today. More criminals will come here tomorrow.
Build the fence. That, is where you start, otherwise; you will be doing the same thing over and over again with no end.
Two questions to pose to anyone advocating for amnesty and open borders:
1. Is there any crime, other than illegally entering our country, for which you advocate awarding the criminals their ill-gotten goods (residency in our country, in this case) to the convicted criminal, even if a fine were imposed?? (i. e., would you award the stolen jewels to a convicted burglar, even with a fine?)
Follow-up question: do you think this policy will result in an increase or decrease in this crime?
2. What is the difference between:
a) charging a fine of $3000 AFTER illegally crossing our border, and
b) a Border Patrol agent charging a $3000 bribe BEFORE crossing the border??
See how Attrition through Enforcement is a winning issue across both parties:
2006 Zogby poll.
You obviously didn’t get the memo – Pope Benedict has issued an invitation for any and all illegal aliens to stay in Vatican City.
Oh, wait …
#22 fred5676
The difference is that the bribe only gets you away from the particular agent’s area of influence. Somebody else might still catch you and have you deported. The fine is part of a legal process to make the crimes you have committed be unchargeable in any court in the land, and tends to be interpretable to judges to strip off any limitations (felons, child molesters, disease carriers, deadbeats, and gang members) that might be put into the legalization bill.
I would really like to see Jamiel’s Law pass allowing the LAPD to throw off the shackles of Special Order 40. The laws enacted by Arizona and Oklahoma are stepping in and taking the place of the Federal Government in enforcing our immigration laws and they have already succeeded in many illegal invaders self deporting. If they can’t find a job and can’t get the freebees from our tax dollars they will leave. I do agree with bit_boy that Mayor Villaraigosa should be at the top of the list facing a Federal indictment for his compliance with violating our immigration laws.
I like that. I think we ought to spread this term. We can put the undocumented Federal felons in the same place as the undocumented pharmacists.
How many members of congress fall into this category?
Or are we going to continue to ignor the plight of Ramos and Compean here again?
It all ties in, MM. Or is speaking out regarding this long-running outrage (perpetrated by Boosh’s buddy-roo Sutton, quite possibly at Jorge’s behest) too much like BDS to talk about?
I put Sutton in the same barrel of crud that Nifong lived, and deserves the same fate.
brooklyn red #21 I always enjoy reading your posts.
How many of you are getting fed up with the “Iraq war is bankrupting us” diatribe?
Verified stats:
Iraq $125 billion
Illegal aliens: $$$$$ 338.3 billion!!!!!$$$$
welfare
med.
ed.
prison expenses
$$$ sent to Mexico
and etc. etc. etc.
Bush should be impeached for what he did to those border agents,…as well as complicity in the murder of Jamiel Shaw and others……..
Multiculturalism ain’t it special???
Bloody Weekend: 32 Shot, 2 Stabbed, 6 Dead
CHICAGO (CBS) ― A violent and deadly weekend continues in Chicago. At least 12 people have been shot, two of them killed, since Saturday morning. Two others were stabbed in a home invasion. This comes after at least 20 people were shot, four of them killed, from Friday night through early Saturday.
gang related…
Thanks George and Geraldo!
maisy … my first reaction was as yours… but I hate to say, it seems like most if not all in Chicago are err, shall we say, home grown.
I have to strongly agree with thefoundingfathers #11 post !
I live in a Chicago “collar county” that’s being overrun by illegal aliens. Every year we have a different school district bringing up a referendum for more money because of class sizes.
I’ve gotten booted from the on-line forums of our local Liberal bird cage liner 7 times because I keep bringing up the savings that elimination of ESL and Spanish only classes would bring.
Plain as the nose on your face type of thing.
I pray that Jamiel’s Law passes. God bless these parents for trying to do something helpful for the whole nation in memory of their beautiful son. I so wish he were still among us. And I hope L.A.’s leaders, including the City Attorney, crusade for passage of Jamiel’s Law!
No fair skipping question #1 and the follow-up!! Tsk. Tsk.
FIFY.
And those “undocumented workers” who have either:
1. been paid in cash and avoided all taxes (the IRS frowns on this)
2. used an unassigned social security number – a $250,000 fine
3. used a stolen social security number – a felony
Anybody left???
Why has SO 40 been allowed to continue?
Isn’t it against federal law to hinder or obstruct ICE?
Exactly where has the federal prosecutor responsible for LA been?
I think the LA prosecutor has been stuck in Berkley helping the incompetent city council come up with legal ways to discriminate against the UNITED STATES MARINE CORPS.
Gotta give a shout out to the Devil Dogs-OOORAH!
GSP
What if we offered citizenship to anyone who can provide information that leads to the arrest, conviction and deportation of gang members. This would of course extend to the informants immediate family. Kind of like an amnesty ransom.
Sorry, I’m an idiot. I mean an amnesty bounty. Ok then.
A great point that must not go unnoticed, as it is the main reason the open-borders crowd as been able to keep illegal immigrate laws from being enforced for such a long time.
Good advice for all those who care enough to take-up this issue and join the fight to secure our borders.
In order to achieve any change to Special Order 40, the public needs to keep the pressure up. The government of Los Angeles is solidly in favor of illegal immigation for political purposes, whether those “immigrants” are gang bangers or day laborers. I do not believe this reflects the local public view. If the City believes the issue will die down, the city government will take the opportunity to do nothing. (Odd, I usually prefer the government do nothing – but not in this case).
Grape Ape said: I keep bringing up the savings that elimination of ESL and Spanish only classes would bring.
Not Legal in Illinois. The Spanish only classes are mandatory for children whose parents want them.
Decades ago the legislature passed requirements that a child be taught in whatever language the parents wanted.
IIRC it came out when a consulate head in Chicago had listed an odd language native to his country, but not even the official language there. Only qualified teacher in that language in state was TAAA DAAA…
the mother. She got paid to tutor her own progeny in the aforementioned strange language. Stipends were furnished to buy textbooks. And what made it a news-worthy item was that after a few years the aforementioned foreign citizen and consulate progeny had no knowledge of the language Mommy was being paid to teach.
She wasn’t teaching it, and no textbooks had ever been bought for that language.
ESL classes at least offer an illegal (or anchor baby) a chance to be Americanized so parents not wanting the children to become Americans in culture make sure that they keep those kids in foreign language classes.