Jose Canseco walks away from his mortgage

By Michelle Malkin  •  May 2, 2008 07:39 AM

1jose.jpg Back in January, I noted the troubling trend of home borrowers in California simply walking away from their mortgages–abandoning their promise to pay their loans and undermining the stigma of default. As I wrote then, political rhetoric absolving borrowers of their responsibilities — and encouraging them to spend, spend, spend even more — has made it possible. And so has federal legislation intended to “help.” The omnibus spending bill passed last year prevents the IRS from taxing mortgage forgiveness as income up to $1 million for a two-year period. Some people are bailing because they’ve lost equity and value in their properties; some are bailing for cheaper homes in the same neighborhoods. There’s even a term that’s become popular over the last couple of years — “Jingle Mail” — that describes when homeowners cut loose and mail in the keys to the bank. Ho, ho, ho. The true victims in this “crisis” are those who paid for homes within their means and those who waited to enter the housing market.

As California goes, so goes the nation. The trend continues.

Now comes word from Los Angeles that beleaguered baseball player Jose Canseco has walked away from his mortgage. L.A. Land reports:

Former major league baseball player Jose Canseco…”said on Thursday he had lost his California mansion to foreclosure — one of the first celebrities to publicly admit being a statistic in the U.S. housing crisis,” the Associated Press said.

In comments to the TV show “Inside Edition,” Canseco says, “It didn’t make financial sense for me to keep paying a mortgage on a home that was basically owned by someone else.”

More from the Associated Press: “Canseco, 43, one of the most flamboyant U.S. baseball players until his retirement from the major leagues in 2001, told the celebrity TV show ‘Inside Edition’ that it did not make financial sense to keep his 7,300-square-foot home in the Los Angeles suburb of Encino. ‘Inside Edition’ said it had foreclosure documents showing Canseco owed a bank more than $2.5 million on the house.

Note that he wasn’t forced to foreclose. He chose to foreclose. And many more will follow in his foosteps.

Commenter Patrick at L.A. Land sums it up well:

Steroids and stardom aside, Canseco is not unlike the rest of America: Chronically overspending, knee-deep in debt, lived beyond ample means, relative to the rest of the world. The mortgage mess is a symptom of this very same mindset. There will be more.

This is also right on:

In a Roman orgy, and no mistake abou[t] it, it has been one disgusting, wanton, gluttonous binge, rich folk take off their pants just like the the plebeians.

Posted in: Subprime crisis

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  1. Right Voices » Blog Archive » About Those Foreclosure Statistics
  2. Jose Canseco Demotivator » Pursuing Holiness
  3. Moonbattery
  4. joelmaxwell.com » Responsibility
  5. Michelle Malkin » Teachers’ Unions and the Housing Crisis
  6. Michelle Malkin » Teachers’ Unions and the Housing Crisis
  7. Michelle Malkin » A Democrat congresswoman bails on her half-million-dollar-plus, second-home mortgage
  8. May, 2008 Archive « Right Minded Online

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Comments


  1. #308884
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 7:47 am, gunslingerpatriot said:

    Its about time the mortgage companies start going after these deadbeats-if a deadbeat father behind in child support can have his wages garnished and “tax refund” taken then certanily the banks can do something simuliar.

    GSP
    OT No wonder he’s not in the HOF

  2. #308886
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 7:51 am, bilgerat said:

    In comments to the TV show “Inside Edition,” Canseco says, “It didn’t make financial sense for me to keep paying a mortgage on a home that was basically owned by someone else.”

    Uh, isn’t that what a mortgage is???

    Am I missing something here??
    :-0

  3. #308894
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 7:58 am, ctmom said:

    I think that the government should tax the windfall profits of celebrities and athletes because they are obviously too stupid to handle their money appropriately.

  4. #308899
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 8:03 am, englishqueen01 said:

    Saw this last night on the news. All I could think was “Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?!” This guy had millions and it still wasn’t enough.

    This is what decades of liberal entitlement mentality governing has wrought.

    This renter is beyond angry. She’s just depressed….

  5. #308901
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 8:04 am, terrig said:

    This guy is such an idiot for a host of reasons and this is another one.
    For those of us who worked hard and played by the rules, it’s disgusting. Hey Jose, here is a clue-SunTrust owns a little less than 2/3 of my home but we dutifully pay them their money the first of every month. Of course we didn’t buy a home we couldn’t afford (even though the real estate agent showed us a few we technically qualified but could not really afford) and we weren’t buying steroids either.
    When we got married I moved from my townhouse to a single wide trailer that my husband had purchased when he was a 19 y/o Pvt. He’d been hauling that thing all over the country for 10 years. We lived in that thing for two but when we sold it he did get about 8K out of it. It wasn’t much but with my first semester salary (that we saved) and borrowing some out of my IRA (which I wouldn’t recommend), we were able to get the HI house, a house that when I saw, I honestly cried it was so small. But we made huge improvements and doubled our money and were able to buy this house.
    I wish I could feel sorry for you, Jose but I don’t nor the LTC we know who is going to lose a house he couldn’t afford either. I know, I’ll save you the trouble-I’m mean. ;)

  6. #308903
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 8:06 am, On-my-soap-box said:

    Money makes you happy?

    I have to say, I don’t feel sorry for him. Nope, not one bit.

  7. #308905
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 8:06 am, st_james said:

    In this case, unlike Islamic Terrorism, the chickens HAVE come home to roost. It’s time to pay the piper and stop having the government, largely responsible for enabling this total financial disaster, attempt to ‘fix’ things. (Hey Alan Greenspan, where’d ya go. )

  8. #308908
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 8:08 am, purple1 said:

    Disgusting! Whatever happened to personal responsibility???? Where are the adults in this country?

  9. #308912
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 8:10 am, localmalcontent said:

    Canseco- always the poster boy for what anyone ought not do.

    I can never forget that play, when Canseco was hit with a flyball off his cocoanut, then the ball bouncing over the wall for a home run.

  10. #308914
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 8:12 am, trailortrash said:

    my wife and i just spent the last 12 years makingup for going in over our heads on our first home, we took responsiblity and lived below our means to scrimp and save and payoff all things related to our forclosure that has held us in rentals since.
    we are just now in a position to attempt to buy another home and now all these people just walk away?
    and they will get a free walk?
    wtf has happend to my country!

  11. #308918
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 8:15 am, ctmom said:

    I thought the mortgage crisis was due to predatory lenders taking advantage of illegal immigrants who can’t speak English?

  12. #308937
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 8:30 am, tre said:

    Reason # 1,323,654 why celebrities don’t make good role models.

    Whatever happened to taking responsibility for ones actions? Whatever happened to “you made your bed, now go lay in it!”

  13. #308941
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 8:37 am, Boomer said:

    Poor decisions are not only made by the common man it appears. Sorry to hear Canseco made some really bad personal financial decisions along with many other people. It appears California is getting the worst of it, but in our area Boise made the top 10 list in the nation for the housing crisis. Of course Boise has seen a huge influx of refugees from the People’s Republic of California and they have unfortunately brought the flawed values system with them.

    I am less than pleased with the government’s manipulation of the market bailing out big business contributing to keeping housing prices artificially elevated to still keep them above what should be their real adjusted market value. Now renters will have to wait even longer to become first time buyers and those of use who have lived within our means will be bailing the irresponsible borrowers and greedy lenders out with our forced tribute to an ever expanding soulless federal government.

  14. #308961
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 8:52 am, ajmontana said:

    “Say it ain’t so Jo’se”

  15. #308962
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 8:52 am, WORK949 said:

    And another grifter takes his money and runs.

    He’s an athlete, a parasite on society. What else should we expect?

    (Yawn)

  16. #308964
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 8:54 am, jungatheart said:

    Waiting for a law that says his “walk away” cannot appear on any credit report in 4,3,……………

  17. #308965
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 8:55 am, governmentdrone said:

    Boomer has it right, I think, when he says “Poor decisions are not only made by the common man it appears.” However, in Canseco’s case I think it goes way beyond poor decision making. He’s made a decision to walk away from personal responsibility (nothing new in his life, by all accounts). The sad part is, his decision will do nothing more than encourage others to follow his path.

    I feel sorry for the majority of people in this country who are seeking to become first time home buyers. This mess will impact them in ways that even now might not be apparent.

    On the other hand, I consider myself to be very fortunate. In my part of the country forclosures and defaults remain at their historic averages, and currently housing prices are down from a year ago, as are fixed interest rates on mortgages. Blame it on the values of “fly-over” country, I guess. My wife and I are looking to buy our first home, and where we live it couldn’t be a better time to do so.

  18. #308967
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 8:56 am, maine yankee said:

    How about a celebrity version of FLIP THAT HOUSE ?

    How many celebs and jocks can ‘buy’ and ‘forclose’ the same insanely big mansion in a ratings season ?

  19. #308979
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 9:03 am, kiwiwgranny said:

    A couple of years ago when the housing boom was at it’s height, my daughter and her husband looked into buying their first home, but decided that they were not going to pay more than twice what their current rent was for something about the the same size as their small apartment. It just did not make financial sense. They waited and saved. Now they have just bought their first house for $140,000, which cost $240,000 two years ago and was in foreclosure. Not only did they get a much bigger living space then their apartment, but they have payments at a fixed rate which they can afford. Why was everyone so stupid to buy more house than they needed with interest rates that would go up? Nobody was thinking, they just wanted what they wanted and this is a huge problem in this country. I just hope that people are learning a lesson from this fiasco, but I fear that they are not.

  20. #308986
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 9:10 am, nyc123me said:

    What does he want – pity?
    You live way beyond your means in a house you cannot afford, and then make out like you’re some kind of martyr/victim of the economy.
    No pity. Should not have been given any press either.

  21. #309000
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 9:19 am, tropicalwave12 said:

    On May 2nd, 2008 at 8:30 am, tre said:
    Reason # 1,323,654 why celebrities don’t make good role models.

    Whatever happened to taking responsibility for ones actions? Whatever happened to “you made your bed, now go lay in it!”

    Personal What? What’s responsibility. I am a victim D*&N IT! /sarc off

  22. #309015
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 9:27 am, lgm said:

    To quote some of the more sensitive posters here:

    Boo freakin hoo.

  23. #309038
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 9:46 am, oldcollegeguy1980 said:

    A fool and his money home are soon parted.

  24. #309042
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 9:48 am, meatpieandtatters said:

    Now way, Jose’. No, si’.

  25. #309043
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 9:48 am, Mister P said:

    Lets face it, it is a business decision.

  26. #309055
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 9:56 am, abstractmind said:

    On May 2nd, 2008 at 9:27 am, lgm said:
    To quote some of the more sensitive posters here:

    Boo freakin hoo.

    I actually agree….Jose doesnt deserve any sympathy. I say make him pay it back anyway.

  27. #309057
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 9:57 am, Chief RZ said:

    These are the “poor” people who are loosing their homes? Nem. This is just one of the unintended consequences caused by Jimmy Carter and the SocialDemocrats of the 70s.

  28. #309058
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 9:58 am, Speakup said:

    Why not he has (in spades) the main ingredient to the housing crisis…ego.

  29. #309072
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 10:07 am, corkie said:

    “It didn’t make financial sense for me to keep paying a mortgage on a home that was basically owned by someone else.”

    Um, it always makes sense to pay your debts because you promised to.

    I can see kids on the playground now.

    Kid 1: “Hey, where’s that dollar I loaned you?”

    Kid 2: “I decided that it didn’t make sense for me to pay it back.”

  30. #309081
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 10:13 am, Bruce said:

    Hey – No Problem!! The Democrats will bail him out just like all the others.

    Which reminds me,Government bailing out rich folk seems to have become more of a trend lately. Shouldn’t government programs be used to assist those who are less fortunate?

  31. #309087
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 10:17 am, abstractmind said:

    The government shouldnt be bailing out anyone who made poor financial decisions like this subprime mess and now dont want to be responsible for their own choices.

    I say take the money that would be given to these idiots, and put it back into the Social Security funds, so that seniors who had worked all their lives can at least reap some benefit.

  32. #309092
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 10:18 am, On-my-soap-box said:

    I cannot believe I am going to say this:

    Great post lgm. Keep that up!

  33. #309101
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 10:22 am, emjem24 said:

    Yet another reason reason why this guy has always been messed up and never should have been a role model for kids. First, the steroids and then walking away from his mortgage? C’mon… where are the adults? Then again, this guy was probably running through his multimillion sports deals and baseball contracts cash like there was no tomorrow.

    Soap: You’re surely playing with fire. This is an anomaly in lgm’s overall posting history. :roll:

  34. #309103
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 10:23 am, abstractmind said:

    Soap,

    i found myself on this thread agreeing with Bruce AND lgm….

    There may be hope afterall LOL

  35. #309108
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 10:28 am, Pat said:

    Has he claimed racism yet?

  36. #309110
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 10:29 am, GOPGin said:

    I’m so tired of people making poor financial decisions and then turned into victims.

    Saw a commercial yesterday…

    Do you have 5, 10, 15, 20 thousand dollars of credit card debt? Are creditors harassing you with phone calls? Don’t worry, we’ll bail you out…”

    WTF?

  37. #309119
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 10:36 am, Mister P said:

    Interesting stat:

    Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by: Democrats: 13.2 Republicans: 2.1

    I bet you will find similar rates on welfare, burglary and yes defaulted mortgages.

  38. #309128
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 10:41 am, Romeo13 said:

    Theres a part of this that folks are missing.

    ANY loan company knows that there is risk involved in making a loan. Thats why they vet their customers, and ensure that the person puts down sufficient equity, or risk, to not just walk away. The loan company will take a bigger risk at time for a bigger profit (interest) but its an understood risk.

    If the person defaults, the company gets ALL the equity in the house… ALL the money the person has already paid, AND gets the house…. IF they can sell it in a reasonable time, then that equity becomes PURE PROFIT.

    Key here is that loan companies were making too many risky loans, and they were banking on an expanding economy to support those loans…

    I mean, would any of YOU loan money to Conesco??? If you did? Its your own dam fault if you loose it.

  39. #309132
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 10:45 am, On-my-soap-box said:

    On May 2nd, 2008 at 10:23 am, abstractmind said:
    Soap,

    i found myself on this thread agreeing with Bruce AND lgm….

    There may be hope afterall LOL

    I am thinking parallel universe this morning.

  40. #309133
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 10:47 am, franksalterego said:

    I can remember when Jose first came into baseball.

    In his first season, he showed he could hit, run, catch, and throw the ball with the best of them…I thought, he’d turn out to be a hall-of-famer…He had that potential.

    Then, the ego took over.

    He’s turned out to be one of the biggest disappointments in the sport…A total jerk.

  41. #309136
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 10:47 am, supersean said:

    In response to post #2

    I think what Canseco is referring to is that there was a legal judgment awarding the house to a 3rd party.

  42. #309138
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 10:49 am, thefoundingfathers said:

    Sort of off topic, but goes with the slide of morals and personal responsiility.

    Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by: Democrats: 13.2 Republicans: 2.1

    I bet you will find similar rates on welfare, burglary and yes defaulted mortgages.

    Gee, is it because those in the counties with the low murder rate are to busy working, raising families, paying their taxes and being responsible, versus feeling they are owed and waiting for the next handout.

    Another interesting stat:

    Murder rate last year in Baltimore, Md with a population of approx. 600,000 was about 50 per 100,000. Last time Baltimore’s population was 600,000 was in 1904 and the murder rate was approx. 4 per 100,000, with much less gun control. Things that make you go HMMMMMM…

  43. #309142
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 10:53 am, thefoundingfathers said:

    Jose decided he didn’t want to pay a mmortgage on a house that had a mortgage and a 2.5 million judgement attached to it. For him it was no equity no loss. But, we know Jose has been an upstanding role model….

    I am sure the next loan he applies for he will get it because he is Jose Canseco. If it was one of us little people who had an issue well forget it.

  44. #309145
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 10:57 am, Branden-in-escalon said:

    On post #10, “trailortrash has it right on. My wife and I are in a similar situation because we refinanced our home a couple of years ago and took some bad advice on the type of loan we now have. As frustrating as it was, we also realized we were the final decision makers on accepting this loan; it is our signatures on the paperwork.

    But unlike Mr. Canseco and other deadbeats(and I don’t use that term lightley), we have not just “walked away” from our responsibility; instead, we have been proactive, gone to the company that currently owns our loan, and are working with them to see what we can do to get us back on the right path. Do I wish I had gotten better advice from the people that sold us the loan? Of course. But it is wrong to just abdicate responsibility, and it is especially wrong for someone like Canseco who had the money to pay for it.

  45. #309153
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 11:03 am, tre said:

    #22 Lgm

    History has been made! For once we’re in total agreement!

    Are we finally being a good influence on you?

  46. #309154
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 11:04 am, LC said:

    What a POS. I don’t have the strength to say anything more.

  47. #309162
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 11:10 am, feebiebabe said:

    On May 2nd, 2008 at 9:27 am, lgm said:
    To quote some of the more sensitive posters here:

    Boo freakin hoo.

    WAY TAH GO LGM!!!!! I so proud of you!! :D

  48. #309164
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 11:11 am, bilgerat said:

    Thanks, supersean, I didn’t realize he had a judgment against his assets.

  49. #309167
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 11:13 am, Cosmo said:

    Well, if a guy who makes millions in the big leagues, writes a book and pockets a huge advance, stars in a D-list reality show and schtoops Janice Dickinson in the process can’t make it in this society, who can?

    I guess we’re all doomed? I’m going to follow my role model and mail my keys (and my accountability, dignity and last name) to the bank post-haste.

    This is such a friggin’ pile of garbage. I want to go fists of fury all over this crap.

  50. #309170
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 11:15 am, love2rumba said:

    LGM gets an “atta boy” from me too.

  51. #309178
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 11:17 am, dakine said:

    Romeo has it right. Putting all the moralizing and hand wringing aside, there’s a thing all good and committed capitalists should be familiar with…efficient breach (google it if you need to). Contracts contemplate defaults.

    BTW, while Jose is generally speaking a tool, he was largely responsible for blowing the lid off the whole steroids controversy in baseball. He was obviously acting in a self serving way, but he was the lone voice in the wilderness when his first book came out, and his claims have for the most part been totally vindicated.

  52. #309186
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 11:22 am, undrseige247 said:

    I better sell his Topps Rookie card.

  53. #309192
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 11:26 am, granite said:

    #40 On May 2nd, 2008 at 10:47 am, franksalterego said:

    I can remember when Jose first came into baseball.

    In his first season, he showed he could hit, run, catch, and throw the ball with the best of them…I thought, he’d turn out to be a hall-of-famer…He had that potential.

    Then, the ego took over.

    He’s turned out to be one of the biggest disappointments in the sport…

    Yep, I remember when he had a “40-40″ year: 42 home runs & 42 stolen bases (1988 – I looked it up to confirm).

    He was heralded as the next great….

    However, he couldn’t do things like that consistently.

    Another of the greatest careers that never were.

    Very sad….

  54. #309200
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 11:29 am, franksalterego said:

    Trivia

    In his book, he says that he met his second wife at a Hooters restaurant in Cleveland.

  55. #309207
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 11:33 am, granite said:

    Sorry…40 stolen bases.
    Apologies.

  56. #309210
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 11:34 am, rogerbacon said:

    I think he made the correct decision. If the bank was stupid enough to write the loan for an overpriced house THEY are the ones who should take the risk, not the home”owner” .

    I bought a house for 400,000 and I put 80,000 down. Now, a year and four months later, it is worth only about $290,000. The developer is building new ones of the same model for even less than that. Why should I keep paying money that I will never see back in my lifetime? If I hadn’t sunk 100,000 into it I would have walked away long ago. My mistkae was to actually put money down because I planned to stay in it. I may yet regret not walking away. Maybe I’m really stupid to stay.

  57. #309219
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 11:40 am, tarpon said:

    The spiral started in 1992 with the Clintons — It’s been downhill ever since. Irresponsibles and rights are locked together. Give up your responsibilities you forfeit your rights.

    Healthcare is a responsibility.

  58. #309224
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 11:44 am, WarTip said:

    On May 2nd, 2008 at 7:58 am, ctmom said:

    I think that the government should tax the windfall profits of celebrities and athletes because they are obviously too stupid to handle their money appropriately.

    I have to disagree. The more we can get government OUT of our pockets and our lives, the better off we will all be.

    On May 2nd, 2008 at 10:13 am, Bruce said:

    Hey – No Problem!! The Democrats will bail him out just like all the others.

    Which reminds me,Government bailing out rich folk seems to have become more of a trend lately. Shouldn’t government programs be used to assist those who are less fortunate?

    It would be less fortunate for them if the government only bailed out We The People instead of keeping the classes separated and as divided based on class as they have managed to accomplish with race issues.

    I do not remember the studies, but as I recall, most of the agricultural “subsidies” paying people NOT to grow goods went to corporations like John Deere and to families like the Rockefellers. I am likely wrong in the exact names but the correct names and the reports are out there and do support this equally asinine government subsistence of the rich.

    As I said, the more we can get government out of our pockets and essentially out of our lives (as far as this centralized federal system we have) the better off we will be.

    IMHO

    And okay, even though he did not respond to my comments on the other thread, I do have to agree with LGM and would like to thank him in hopes that he will use this historical moment to turn things around and actually begin contributing to conversations rather than “seagulling” us as has happened so often in the past. Debates based on facts really are much more rewarding than name calling or emotional arguments LGM.

  59. #309238
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 11:53 am, jsr said:

    On May 2nd, 2008 at 9:27 am, lgm said:
    To quote some of the more sensitive posters here:

    Boo freakin hoo.

    Are we making progress with lgm? Am I dreaming? I’m doubtful this is real. This must be a teaser. Or perhaps he fell asleep at his computer and one of his children typed this. I refuse to believe it. This ruins my world view!

  60. #309241
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 11:55 am, franksalterego said:

    May 2nd, 2008 at 11:34 am, rogerbacon

    I know someone with double-wide for sale…cheap

    skate

  61. #309259
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 12:07 pm, corkie said:

    On May 2nd, 2008 at 11:34 am, rogerbacon said:

    I bought a house for 400,000 and I put 80,000 down. Now, a year and four months later, it is worth only about $290,000. The developer is building new ones of the same model for even less than that. Why should I keep paying money that I will never see back in my lifetime?

    BECAUSE YOU BORROWED IT!

  62. #309262
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 12:12 pm, corkie said:

    On May 2nd, 2008 at 11:17 am, dakine said:

    Romeo has it right. Putting all the moralizing and hand wringing aside, there’s a thing all good and committed capitalists should be familiar with…efficient breach (google it if you need to). Contracts contemplate defaults.

    Wrong! The fact that a contract contemplates a default doesn’t ethically or morally excuse a defaulter.

    A default is still a breach of the contract.

    Someone that views a default (breach) as a mere option is scum.

  63. #309266
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 12:13 pm, Lilycat said:

    This is beyond absurd. Jose Canseco is a loser on so many fronts but this takes the cake. Anyone who can afford to pay his mortgage and willfully walks away should be punished. Enough already!

  64. #309310
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 12:38 pm, dakine said:

    corkie, buy a clue. Go google the term “efficient breach”, and then get back to me. Any party who continues to perform under a contract which no longer makes economic sense is an idiot. Renegotiate the business deal or efficiently breach the agreement and pay the resulting price as contemplated by the default provisions of the contract. In this case, the bank gets Jose’s house as the result of his breach. BTW, thanks for letting us all know that “default” = “breach”. You must be some kind of genius.

  65. #309314
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 12:43 pm, Wade said:

    May 2nd, 2008 at 11:34 am, rogerbacon

    Did not know house trailers sold for that much. Next time buy a house without wheels.

  66. #309318
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 12:45 pm, Romeo13 said:

    On May 2nd, 2008 at 12:12 pm, corkie said:
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 11:17 am, dakine said:

    A default is still a breach of the contract.

    Someone that views a default (breach) as a mere option is scum

    So, its your opinion that the Loan agent and company hold no liability for making a risky loan?

    And the FACT that they not only keep the house, but all the equity in said house when you default is not enough of a penalty if its a properly done loan?

    THIS IS A BUSINESS TRANSACTION, with protections in place for BOTH sides.

    Sometimes the circumstances under which a contract is first negotiated change to the point where it is not wise or possible to complete the contract… it happens… which is why a GOOD contract has provisions in it to mitigate loss on both sides.

  67. #309327
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 12:49 pm, feebiebabe said:

    On May 2nd, 2008 at 12:12 pm, corkie said:
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 11:17 am, dakine said:

    Romeo has it right. Putting all the moralizing and hand wringing aside, there’s a thing all good and committed capitalists should be familiar with…efficient breach (google it if you need to). Contracts contemplate defaults.
    Wrong! The fact that a contract contemplates a default doesn’t ethically or morally excuse a defaulter.

    A default is still a breach of the contract.

    Someone that views a default (breach) as a mere option is scum.

    You nailed it, Corkie!

  68. #309328
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 12:49 pm, PeterX said:

    Maybe he was too concerned with informing we baseball fans of “the truth” in his “Juiced” books.
    /sarcasm tag off

  69. #309343
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 12:59 pm, granite said:

    As far as I am aware:

    upon a property mortgage foreclosure and subsequent auction sale of the property;

    if the property sells for less than the outstanding principal balance, the borrower is still responsible to pay any remaining, outstanding principal to the mortgagee.

    Am I correct?

  70. #309344
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 12:59 pm, dakine said:

    Romeo, yup. corkie and feebie, take a business class maybe. Free markets,capitalism? Do these terms mean anything to you guys? And here I was thinking only really left wing liberals did the “feelings” thing when it comes to business matters.

  71. #309345
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 1:00 pm, abstractmind said:

    if you wiki Efficient Breach, you get this near the top:

    According to Black’s Law Dictionary, efficient breach theory is “the view that a party should be allowed to breach a contract and pay damages, if doing so would be more economically efficient than performing under the contract.”

    In playing Devil’s Advocate:

    Morally, corkie may be right. And personally, i think (based on Jose’s wealthy stature) he should be made to honor it.

    However, the law doesn’t read it that way, and thus, dakine has a point. Romeo reiterates it, by virtue of:

    Sometimes the circumstances under which a contract is first negotiated change to the point where it is not wise or possible to complete the contract… it happens… which is why a GOOD contract has provisions in it to mitigate loss on both sides.

    Still playing Advocate, I believe that Jose is walking away from this, simply because he chooses not to honor the contract and is using this as a loophole for a poor decision. I still dont feel pity for him, but…legally, he has a right to pursue this course of action, whether we like it (or believe it to be just, fair, and moral) or not.

  72. #309347
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 1:01 pm, dakine said:

    Depends on the state granite. In California, for example, loans on residential real estate are non-recourse to the borrower (with a few exceptions), and the lender is not permitted to sue for any deficiency resulting from the foreclosure sale. The opposite is true in other states.

  73. #309350
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 1:02 pm, corkie said:

    On May 2nd, 2008 at 12:38 pm, dakine said:

    corkie, buy a clue. Go google the term “efficient breach”, and then get back to me.

    Puleez. Google the term “Contract as Promise.”

    Renegotiate the business deal…

    which the other side might not want to do.

    Any party who continues to perform under a contract which no longer makes economic sense is an idiot.

    Bullxxxx. If the other side doesn’t want to renegotiate, then I can argue that your “idiot” is honorable.

    BTW, thanks for letting us all know that “default” = “breach”.

    It seemed that you needed to be told.

    Don’t ever make the mistake of thinking that no ethics are breached simply because no laws are broken. I can think of hundreds of examples.

  74. #309363
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 1:08 pm, feebiebabe said:

    Dakine:

    He was obviously acting in a self serving way, but he was the lone voice in the wilderness when his first book came out, and his claims have for the most part been totally vindicated.

    How can one be vindicated when accusations were derived from a self serving position? Materially, perhaps.

    As far as your “efficient breach” nonsense…what some legal eagles fail to see sometimes is just because you CAN do something, doesnt mean you SHOULD do something.

    “It didn’t make financial sense for me to keep paying a mortgage on a home that was basically owned by someone else.”

    Ummm. Sounds like another case of the Bad Excuses (ehh-heeem Michelle Oblahhhma)

    Who cares about breach, efficient or not. He was not FORCED to forclose. He made a bad decision…he SHOULD not get an easy way out.

    Figure it out, Canseco…just like everyone else has to regarding home purchasing decisions.

    All the contractual language in the world will not save him from the fact that he is an absolute weasle rat fink that cuts and runs leaving everyone else in his wake and to pay for his big mouth and spending habits.

    Karma is a B***H Canseco, and you got it coming….

  75. #309367
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 1:10 pm, franksalterego said:

    Funny, how some think that the bank should encur a loss if the house value sinks.

    Are they entitled to the profit when the house value goes up?

  76. #309370
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 1:11 pm, wighttrasch said:

    Stop it, all of you.
    Don’t you know this conversation isn’t helping the kids?!

  77. #309376
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 1:16 pm, AlohaGuy said:

    This guy had millions and it still wasn’t enough.

    That’s what drugs will do to you…:)

    I can never forget that play, when Canseco was hit with a flyball off his cocoanut, then the ball bouncing over the wall for a home run.

    #12, please tell me there’s a YouTube of this!

  78. #309377
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 1:17 pm, corkie said:

    On May 2nd, 2008 at 12:59 pm, dakine said:

    Romeo, yup. corkie and feebie, take a business class maybe. Free markets,capitalism? Do these terms mean anything to you guys? And here I was thinking only really left wing liberals did the “feelings” thing when it comes to business matters.

    Take a class? I live in this world. I understand it perfectly.

    “Feelings” thing? Many of us in business value our reputations (there are many ways to legally screw someone). I assume you do not value yours.

  79. #309390
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 1:26 pm, Barry F. said:

    Note that he wasn’t forced to foreclose. He chose to foreclose. And many more will follow in his foosteps.

    Sadly, too many want to overlook that little tidbit of information and cry that people are being left with no other option but to foreclose. Geez!

    The true victims in this “crisis” are those who paid for homes within their means and those who waited to enter the housing market.

    That would include our family. We try to exercise some personal responsiblity and have not purchased another home, until we know we are fully capable of meeting our mortgage obligations.

    Perhaps it is time for us to act like the other irresponsible people shirking their obligations, because…

    “It didn’t make financial sense for me to keep paying a mortgage on a home that was basically owned by someone else.”

  80. #309393
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 1:28 pm, rambler said:

    Welcome to the new world order – the gov will take care of everything; clean up everyone’s personal messes. Responsibility – Huh? Consequences – None! Reputation – who cares? Shame – What’s that? Hello nanny state!

  81. #309409
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 1:35 pm, corkie said:

    So, its your opinion that the Loan agent and company hold no liability for making a risky loan?

    For the record, I don’t have any sympathy for the party/parties that currently hold this loan.

  82. #309413
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 1:38 pm, corkie said:

    How about this;

    “I’m so busy that it didn’t make sense for me to spend time with my children, and I’m not legally obligated to do so.”

  83. #309422
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 1:42 pm, granite said:

    #72 On May 2nd, 2008 at 1:01 pm, dakine said:

    Depends on the state granite. In California, for example, loans on residential real estate are non-recourse to the borrower (with a few exceptions), and the lender is not permitted to sue for any deficiency resulting from the foreclosure sale. The opposite is true in other states.

    Thank you.

    So, it appears that California (Why is this not a surprise?) in essence, with a few exceptions, makes it easier for bad behavior to be rewarded; and, with a few exceptions, makes it easier for folks to avoid the consequences of their bad decisons.

    Gee:
    Take out a mortgage;
    Walk away from it if you feel like it;
    And if the lender gets screwed because you still owe him part of what you borrowed…well, it’s just tough-sh#t, suck-it-up time for the lender.

    What a gig for a borrower who doesn’t worry about his credit rating!

    Whoa!
    Perhaps I spoke too hastily – this is California, after all.
    Does California law does allow, or prevent, a loan default from being entered into the defaulter’s credit history?

    Again, thank you for the clarification.

  84. #309425
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 1:45 pm, governmentdrone said:

    On May 2nd, 2008 at 1:38 pm, corkie said:
    How about this;

    “I’m so busy that it didn’t make sense for me to spend time with my children, and I’m not legally obligated to do so.”

    Excellent.

    This really seems to boil down to a question of what’s morally and ethically right vs. what’s “legally” acceptable (or right).

    Unfortunately, a lot of the perception of what’s acceptable in a situation like this has been influenced by the sport that Canseco played (along with other major professional sports). The mindset was, and is, “I don’t like the contract I signed. I don’t care if I am contractually obligated to work for you for “X” number of years for “Y” dollars, I want to work for “A” number of years for “B” amount of dollars, and if I don’t get my way, I just won’t work for you.”

    I’m still wondering why owners didn’t sue the first athlete that tried this for breach of contract.

  85. #309426
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 1:45 pm, granite said:

    P.S.

    Don’t misunderstand me…I shed no tears for lenders, who most likely don’t care if they screw borrowers!

  86. #309431
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 1:48 pm, terrig said:

    Hell has frozen, I actually agree with LGM’s post.

  87. #309440
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 1:54 pm, AlohaGuy said:

    Are they entitled to the profit when the house value goes up?

    If you stopped paying, they took it back and sold it, yes.

  88. #309450
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 1:58 pm, corkie said:

    On May 2nd, 2008 at 1:54 pm, AlohaGuy said:

    If you stopped paying, they took it back and sold it, yes.

    Actually, this isn’t true. If a lender sells an asset via foreclosure for a value which is greater than the debt (plus interest and penalties – which is often limited by law) then the lender must pay the borrower the remaining portion of the proceeds.

  89. #309460
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 2:06 pm, feebiebabe said:

    #70 – Dakine….

    Perhaps it is you who is confused. The capitalism you seem to be defending is what exists as capitalism in its purest form. We dont have that here…(really not sure it exists anywhere…but I could be mistaken).

    The fact that there are those that cant see two inches past a their Matthew Benders or Court Reporters only furthers their distortion of what is actually going on here….

    What he is doing may be legal, but here it is again. Just because you can do something doesnt mean you should! If I was in a position to take his case, I wouldnt, based on principal…but then again, thats why we have lawyers out there like Dakine….just to keep twisting the laws to benefit the undeserved and allowing them the side step personal responsibility.

    Rhetorical Question of the Day: If you have money and a unscrupulous attorney…did you really do anything wrong???

  90. #309465
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 2:11 pm, graysonret said:

    The country has found a new “victim bandwagon” and lots of people are jumping aboard. What a way to rationalize poor behavior and decision-making. We just moved into a townhouse yesterday. Yes, I can afford it, and no, I don’t own it. When one can’t come up with the money to pay for the property, that person goes to someone who has the money. He agrees to give the person the money, but wants to make sure he is paid back the thousands of dollars. He isn’t a charity. If one doesn’t want to pay the money back, don’t buy the property. It’s the same thing with credit cards and car loans. One wants the “latest and greatest” but doesn’t want to pay back the borrowed money. It’s easier to plead “victimhood”. Then run off to Church on Sunday and claim to be a good Christian. :) In the end, the government loves it; that is, a nation of victims. Total control and power.

  91. #309468
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 2:12 pm, franksalterego said:

    Missing in this thread, of course, is the reason for the Mortgage meltdown, in the first place.

    A.R.M.s

    And, who was reponsible for pushing the banking industry into this practice?

    You guessed it.

    Mr. Slithers Clinton

  92. #309484
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 2:27 pm, spo-con said:

    I bought my first home in 94. I got a fixed rate mortgage. I refinanced when the rates dropped. Again, fixed rate. I’m holding onto my home just fine! Now you watch, the MSM will come out with some whiny, smarmy story about how Jose lost track of the payments BECAUSE of the ‘roids! B.S., homey, pay your bills or just get an apartment. My heart pumps pi$$ for you!

  93. #309488
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 2:30 pm, spo-con said:

    And yes, lgm FINALLY had a lucid moment.

  94. #309505
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 2:43 pm, Barry F. said:

    On May 2nd, 2008 at 2:30 pm, spo-con said:

    And yes, lgm FINALLY had a lucid moment.

    Where?! When?!

    You have to provide specific references by citing comment number, spocon. These things happen so infrequently. ;-)

  95. #309506
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 2:43 pm, vsatt said:

    If anyone had gone up to Mr. Canseco right after he moved into the house and asked him who was letting him live in their big, beautiful house, my guess is he would have been quick to state that no one was letting him live there — it was his house, he bought it.

    Now that he doesn’t want to pay the mortgage, he’s decided that technically it’s someone else’s house anyway. How convenient.

  96. #309507
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 2:44 pm, Jim M. said:

    This may look like walking away from one’s personal responsibility, but the mortgage market meltdown is a bit more complex than that.

    To date, we are seeing losses in the value of the real estate markets in the trillions of dollars. One of the reasons the government wanted to intervene, aside from political motivation, was to try to isolate the economic damage to the sub prime markets. When any group of loans turns South, they have the potential to drag the entire market down with them.

    And unfortunately, that is what is happening now. Record foreclosures (measured against the new records set last year) balloons housing inventory and causes price decreases (more supply against lower demand). That value decrease is now finding its way into the erstwhile prime real estate markets.

    One of the tings the Fed was trying to get banks to do was to write down principal on all loans. People who saved to put 20% down on their homes havem more incentive to keep paying on their loans if they continue to have an equity stake. And such a move would have been fair across the board, benefitting good and bad borrowers alike. Unfortunately, the banks are still in denial as to the scope of the problem, and balked at such an idea.

    To date, there have been about $300 billion in writeoffs and reserves by financial institutions on real estate loans. From what I have seen, the real number should be over $1 trillion. As of today. The longer the problems persist, the worse property values become and the greater the write downs in the future.

    When a borrower has just seen their equity evaporate overnight, they reach a point where they must ask themselves whether continuing to make payments on something worth 20% less than it was yesterday is really a smart thing to do. There is a limited opportunity for a real tax benefit to do it now – not having any deficiency counted as income to you is a strong incentive to take the deal.

    Canseco is not alone in what he did. we are seeing more and more people decide to cut their losses and move on. People, I might add, with excellent credit up until now.

    The financial industry is not being smart here. They are waiting for the inevitable to happen rather than trying to get out in front of the problem. And the problem is one that will spiral downward, taking all levels of real estate down with it. If that happens (and it looks like it has already started), entire real estate portfilios will have to be “marked to market” to reflect the present value of the portfolio. With a 20% drop in values already a fact in some areas, a similar decrease throughout the country means 20% of the value of entire portfolios may have to be taken as a loss by the financial institutions holding them. And that will make the present mess look like a loose change.

  97. #309530
    On May 2nd, 2008 at 2:57 pm, On-my-soap-box said:

    On May 2nd, 2008 at 2:43 pm, Barry F. said:

    Where?! When?!

    #22 CHECK IT OUT!

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