Another massive mortgage bailout is on the way; Update: Shouting in the House; Update: $2.7 billion boondoggle passes with 39 Republicans voting yes; roll call vote added
Scroll down for updates…10:50am Eastern A bit of chaos on the House floor as Repubs and Dems scrap over procedural rules…
There is no constituency for fiscal responsibility, thrift, and restraint. As I’ve reported to you before, the Suck It Up caucus in Congress is a caucus of one in the Senate–Jim Bunning—and 25 in the House.
What does that mean for all of us tax-paying angry renters and honorable homeowners who have paid their loans on time? We’re screwed. While I noted that President Bush threatened a veto of the bailout boondoggle yesterday, Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson this morning is signaling that the administration will deal. Because the Do Something imperative outweighs the Do Right By Taxpayers imperative:
Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson on Thursday said that problems with a housing relief bill under debate in the House of Representatives are “not insurmountable” and he would work toward a bill that President George W. Bush could sign.
“I can’t talk about a compromise now, other than the problems here are not insurmountable, and it’s my job and others working for the president to get to a housing bill that is acceptable and one that he can sign,” Paulson told Fox Business News in an interview from Kansas City, Missouri.
The WSJ boils it down:
Wall Street Journal columnist David Wessel boils down the debate to a question of whether Washington should push the lenders to help Americans whose home values sank below the size of their mortgages “even if it may cost taxpayers some money,” with the White House saying “No!” and Mr. Frank, quietly backed by Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke, saying “Yes!” Citing research from Economy.com, Mr. Wessel puts the number of families with such “underwater” mortgages at about four million, and notes that number is predicted to reach around 12 million by early next year. While many of those families will keep paying their mortgages, “many won’t, and are at risk of losing their homes,” he says. Since “no one in Washington wants to help the ’speculators’” who bought homes as investments, and most there agree people who bought houses they can’t afford are probably beyond aid, “the debate revolves around the ‘preventable foreclosures,’” he adds.
And no one, from the homeowners to the lenders to the politicians and economists like Mr. Bernanke, wants to let “preventable foreclosures” go unprevented. The bill, while crafted to exclude people who don’t need the help or wouldn’t benefit, “could allow some homeowners to get a deal they don’t deserve; that’s the unfortunate byproduct of any rescue,” Mr. Wessel notes. But the Treasury and Fed, he argues, “surrendered the let-the-market-work-it-out high ground when they agreed to risk nearly $30 billion of taxpayer money to shield Bear Stearns, its creditors and counterparties from losses.” Democratic legislators yesterday were mentioning the Bear Stearns bailout again and again.
The housing downturn is an economic problem with as much political resonance as gas prices, and if no relief is provided, it could be a poignant issue ahead of November’s elections. Even as Mr. Bush was threatening a veto yesterday, Keith Hennessey, director of the White House National Economic Council, was saying the differences between congressional Democrats and the administration aren’t “insurmountable,” the Journal reports, adding that this leaves the door open for an eventual deal.
Remember what I said after the Bear Stearns bailout?
I warned from the start of stimulus-palooza that we were headed in this direction. Both political parties support these massive government interventions–from empowering judges to meddle with private contracts to backing billions in mortgage securities. This isn’t the last step. It’s the first. And you know who will end up getting screwed: The responsible and the frugal.
Told you so.
***
Will Republicans at least be able to strip out the earmarks for open-borders radical grouip La Raza-The Race, the left-wing Urban League, and the trial lawyers’ slush fund?
House business begins at 10:00am and votes on the two housing bills are expected today. I’ll report again on the floor debate throughout the day.
We know what the inevitable outcome will be. The question is how much fight fiscal conservatives have left and will show, and which few, lonely, sane Republicans still deserve your support.
***
Karl at Protein Wisdom: Meet the new trough, same as the old trough.
God save us from bipartisanship.
***
10:52am Eastern. Grumbling on the House floor right off the bat. The first vote just took place on an amendment by Jeb Hensarling to one of the housing bills. A GOP member objects to a procedural motion that held open the vote; the Republican says the vote was purposely held open too long in violation of rules. There’s shouting and dissent. There’s been a challenge to the chairman’s decision on a point of order. Barney Frank’s barking.
11:28am Eastern. Vote taking place now on an amendment by Pa. Dem. Jason Altmire regarding the eligibility of illegal immigrants for foreclosure aid. Amendment passes; illegal aliens formally excluded from getting the aid. At least, on paper.
The ongoing House floor summary from the Clerk’s office is here.
HR5818, the $15 billion boondoggle bill for loans and grants to states and cities to buy foreclosed properties, advances for debate.
3:32pm Eastern. Bringing you up to date…
A little bit after noon, HR 5818 passed. Here’s the roll call vote. It won 239 - 188. Eleven Republicans joined the Democrat majority. 1 Democrat dissented and voted no with the GOP minority.
Debate is continuing on the Frank and Bachus housing bills.
3:47pm Eastern. Frank is giving his concluding statement, in denial about the massive government intervention his housing bill represents. He claims the bill is “true to free-market principles.”
Reality check here.
7:23pm Eastern. I said it was inevitable. And yea, it came to pass. The massive mortgage bailout passed this afternoon. 39 Republicans bolted and voted with the Dems.
House Democrats defied a veto threat from President Bush on Thursday as they approved a broad housing bill that would provide up to $300 billion in federally insured loans to refinance the mortgages of debt-strapped homeowners.
The measure passed by 266 to 154, more than a dozen “yes” votes short of the two-thirds needed to override a veto. Thirty-nine Republicans broke with their party’s leadership to vote for the measure, whose main backer has been Representative Barney Frank, the Massachusetts Democrat who heads the Financial Services Committee.
Similar legislation has been working its way through the Senate, which has a much narrower Democratic majority and where the legislation’s supporters have even less chance to muster a veto-proof majority.
The Congressional Budget Office has estimated that Mr. Frank’s bill would generate about 500,000 refinanced mortgages over the next five years at a cost to taxpayers of roughly $2.7 billion.
The roll call vote is here.
The 39 bailout boondoggle Republicans:
Brown-Waite, Ginny
Buchanan
Capito
Castle
Dent
Diaz-Balart, L.
Diaz-Balart, M.
Ehlers
English (PA)
Gerlach
Gilchrest
Graves
Hall (TX)
Hayes
Heller
Jones (NC)
Keller
King (NY)
Kirk
Knollenberg
LaHood
LaTourette
McCotter
Miller, Gary
Murphy, Tim
Porter
Pryce (OH)
Ramstad
Reichert
Rogers (MI)
Ros-Lehtinen
Shays
Smith (NJ)
Souder
Turner
Upton
Walsh (NY)
Young (FL)
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let by Pelosi or Reid….what a shocker
I should’ve bought a $650,000 house; I could’ve had it subsidized. It’s all about hustlin’ nowadays.
Common sense and accountability have been on life support for so long now that the lack of those things have become part of the culture.
Fiscal conservatism has become a fringe, nay, a quaint notion for decades. How could we be so passe and naive? Don’t we love our fellow Americans? Don’t we understand that we have the power to spend our way out of problems? Everyone can be happy here in Fantasyland, North America. Why aren’t you?
Please NOTE: I am about as fiscally conservative as it is possible to be. This kind of nonsense is the hottest of hot button issues for me.
If we could correct our sense of responsibility and accountability, we might still have some individual pain here and there (as we should) but we would ALL be better off in the long run.
Be stupid, be promiscuous, chase the dollar, speculate, procrastinate, donate, save, be prudent, be wise: that’s the beauty of the vision of the USA. You can be or do whatever you’d like. But you have to accept the consequences.
Somewhere along the way–well, let’s say, the period from 1929 to 1941–we started along a path that separates our actions from our results, which we continue jogging (sprinting? stumbling?) down to this day.
I don’t want to stop people from being stupid, but I don’t want to take away their experiential learning opportunity either.
If we know government will bail us out, take care of our needs, then why would we ever avoid risk? Where risk doesn’t exist, there will be a large population of the foolish and the avaricious.
I am sick of it. When this stuff happens, I am not proud of my government (which I do not equate with my country.)
Oh, and Jim Bunning for President!
Entitlements… If they would stop trying to save everyone and everything we would be alot better off but people now a days have this mind set that they are unable to do for themselves. Why should we have to pay for people being stupid. Not my fault they are stupid. If you only make 250 a week you should know you can not afford a house payment of 1200 a month. I say let them lose it and learn. They keep pushing us toward a socialist country.
Excellent post, DougT.
I left out: the lazy.
Conservative Bush supporting Republicans calling for
in the face of a liberal proposal to help financially troubled home owners is like the KKK calling for race blind politics in the face of affirmative action: your position might make sense, but it is ironic to hear you make it.
A bailout = vote buying.
We are victims of an essentially 50/50 party split in the country, and each party will go out if its way to buy any group they can, be they hispanics, the mortgage deficient, blacks etc.
No one will say “no” until they can afford to lose one or more of these groups.
Doing something for the good of the country has been supplanted by doing something for the good of the party.
Dimsdale ranted:
Right.
I am in a bind myself. My wife and I did what I thought was a prudent bridge loan a year and a half ago so we could move and be closer to family. Thinking we could sell our house in Jacksonville quickly, especially at a discount, it was not a risky move. We were wrong in a big way. Trouble always manifests itself long before the bomb actually explodes and we missed the warning signs. Trust me, there are a lot of honest prudent people whom we don’t know of who are taking a beating from this.
The longer the government keeps their fingers in this mess the longer the healing will take. Government causes more and greater problems than it solves. The Roosevelt New Deal was a one time anomaly that created a monster we will never get shed of. If you hear “We’re from the government. We’re here to help.”, run for your life!
Jonathan is in full seagull force today!
I finally understand what Dems are talking about when they say it’s “for the children”. The bill to pay for this and all the other bail-out fiascos will be left “for the children” to take care of!
My wife and I went to Las Vegas last month and lost $5,000. We could only afford to lose $1,000. Would somebody from the government PLEASE send me $4,000 since we were stupid and spent MORE than we could afford. After all, it’s not our fault we were only trying to get rich!!!
360 million people and I’m going to choose between a party supporting a Socialist Democrat for president who will tax evil rich moneymakers or anyone wearing shoes or a party supporting a RINO who likes illegal immigration by deed if not by word.
And both parties don’t seem to care one whit about those of us who live within our means and pay our mortages on time (or rents for that matter too!).
Won’t happen, but I think the whole bailout should be paid for through fines loaded on the predatory lenders who let the whole thing happen in the first place.
It’s clear that the speculation bubble burst in Florida, not the housing bubble.
As to the cause, look into ADDI 2003 which made it a form of discrimination to deny loans (to illegals) — That led to no money down to speculate.
So you AGREE that people should practice those things? For people to be responsible, have restraint, and show some thrift. Are you feeling ok? this isnt your type of post. Republicans said this…but i’ll take it!
It’s not ironic. In case you havent read most of these posts on this blog for what, the last year(?), have been saying the very same things.
But its good to see you saying you support a republican ideal. It makes me think there’s some sort of hope for you yet!
I’m surprised you haven’t picked up on any stories re: Bank of America / Countrywide bailout similar to the Bear Stearns - JP Morgan bailout. When Bank of America Walks, Ben is going to have to bailout Countrywide… why do you think Bank of America was talking about walking out of their deal last week?
If anything I think these “bailouts” are BINOs. One thing that pisses me off is that Paulsen caused this problem, he was CEO of Goldman Sachs up until 2006! Why do we think that someone who caused the problem is going to be part of the solution? Riiiight…
Another thing that ticks me off is that everyone says “falling home prices are bad!”. But they aren’t bad for people who haven’t bought yet. I thought part of the American Dream was to be able to have a home that you didn’t have to work 80 hours a week for? The next thing they will do is repeal child labor laws so that families can be 3 or 4 income families!
As a rule of thumb, an affordable home is ~ 3-4x your year income. If you look at median wage and media price in California and Florida (which are the most affected regions), that number is historically out of whack.
But why would politicians care about someone younger being able to afford a home? Those that are hurt most by this are actually middle-age older people who have all of their retirement value in their house, and a significant portion of their pension in mortgage-backed securities. If they see their nest age and pension go up in smoke (watch CALPERs), they sure as heck won’t feel like voting the same way they’ve voted in the past. I’m already convinced people under 40 shouldn’t vote for anyone in either party unless they really agree with them… if people over 40 start looking at the alternatives Republicrats will start losing their power.
I’m a typical white grandmother who believes in and practiced TOUGH LOVE.
When our children (all older than BHO) left the nest, they were expected to land on their feet and be independent. They understood we wouldn’t bail them out of anything.
The government has no right whatsoever putting these financial burdens on the fiscally responsible. This is out of control, if not illegal. (Maybe we can find a trial lawyer to defend the taxpayers?)
I am still wondering when conservatives start realizing that the Republican party uses them when convenient. It is time them abandon the Republicrats like Bush and McCain, who will join the Democrats in systematically destroying this country.
Where does the free lunch (that isn’t free) end?
Welfare checks for individuals and corporations
food stamps
farming subsidies
relaxed bankruptcy requirements
Now it’s come to some people being forced to prop up other people who made a bad decision (or several of them in the case of speculators) on housing. Please explain the concept of “preventable foreclosure” to me.
Hey, newsflash. If a crapweasel bought more house than he could afford, he doesn’t deserve to continue to live in it. Why should someone who can only afford to live in a $250,000 house get to live in a $500,000 house? The only logical answer: he shouldn’t.
Twenty years ago, the government decided to give 3 million illegals amnesty (one-time deal they said). Now we have 15 to 30 million new illegals. When they get amnesty (and under any of the 3 running for POTUS, they will), there will be 50 to 100 million new illegals by 2025.
Bail out a few million stupid and / or greedy homeowners now and you’ll have more of the same later. Many more. Exactly how many deadbeat homeowners can the U.S. economy afford to bail out? 5 million? 40 million? Every homeowner?
This situation was created because the government told lenders they had to lend money for mortgages to people who wouldn’t qualify under the old rules. Wow! How surprising this is the result.
The fit is almost ready to hit the shan in this country. There are a lot of people who have no concept of Suck.It.Up that are going to be wearing it. I encourage investing in your second amendment right to keep the parasites at bay.
I agree, but I have found that we don’t hold our politicians accountable, and at work, very few workers are held accountable. We are strangers in a strange land.
Random musings about the economic quandry of my Country- (read at your own peril)
Gold is just over 800 bucks an ounce.
Buy baby buy! All the way up and dollar cost average to 1200. You heard it here.
The euro continues to climb up on the dollar, with one foot up on the dollar’s shoulder, shooting for the second one for a full mount before the end of the year (what can the EU possibly be selling overseas with the Euro approaching 2 for 1 against the dollar?).
Get ready to ride the slide downward and make a fortune if you have the stomach for this sort of thing. George Soros will. You can too.
And with housing prices continuing to drop (not everywhere- but in many places around the country)with the bottom not in sight, how much more can the dollar fall? so when it stops falling (if it stops and we arent sold into a North American Union currency first)and starts to climb— and prices keep hurtling to the bottom, that stronger dollar is going to buy more housing stock and consolidate holdings into fewer hands, hands who stayed in cash during the speculative buying frenzy and kept their debt load low.
more renters? fewer owners? we’ll see.
methinks this is the final transition of stripping the ranks of the middle class down to a few million (even though the psychology of the American people will convince them that there still is a middle class). the housing market won’t regrow– it is being reshaped to accomodate massive labor inflows and outflows with landlords profiting from the transient pool (tsunami?). mortgages for labor pool means stability- stay in one place labor, and that is not in the cards for this economy or the global one: you wanna work for wages, you must move to where the wages are and keep on moving.
Just a theory.
anyone who bought at market in the last 15 years (in the “hot” real estate markets around the country) and has been paying their loans on time is going to take a massive equity hit when this hog rolls over- government or no government.
we bought in 98 something that was listed at a 1.7m…. we paid a little over 300K— what it was worth. Just as a reference to illustrate the point above. i drove an east bay neighborhood where average sale price is over what we paid for here in one of the best neighborhoods in California…and the neighborhood i was windshielding looks like Tijuana 1960 now….for sale signs everywhere. oy.
the banking system is choking on re-packaged debt and it is making US citizens assets evaporate. Many in the US don’t grasp that concept— how it works.
We complain bitterly about the IRS. Ladies and gentlemen- just as unconstitutional as the IRS is the FRS- the Federal Reserve System… you remember Alan GreenJeans, dontcha? And now his stooge (Ben Bernanke) BendoverMonkey, is going to take one for the cartel team, with a huge golden parachute of course.
The FRS “structures” bank debt with a special interest in “big”. Treasury Dept. prints greenbacks based on FRS policy to keep the banks’ lube aflowin, which made the mortgages available on the cheap for awhile, kept speculation high (realtors and investment houses), inflated prices (increased consumer risk), and so on and so on.
Government-business collusion is the problem. Government intervention is a sideshow designed to bailout banks to continue propping up the FRS model of banking. (No one remembers why Alex Hamilton and Aaron Burr fought a duel…oh never mind.)
Government intervention doesn’t work because it doesn’t address the banking system and the way debt (called credit…lol) is bought and sold to delay the bad news of the bills coming due.
I wonder if we called “credit” cards “indentured servant” cards and mortgages “indentured servant billets” if the public would approach their decisions to pay and buy etc a little differently than most do now.
I dunno. The cure for the pain is in the pain.
But what does the Gummint do? Let in more illegals, give them loans…open the borders…let in more Muslims to repopulate cities in Michigan and other vacated territories…..all to the lowest bidder with the faster breeding rates.
And Obama prattles on about change— is Tony Rezko, the real estate “investor”, is he for change too?
“Don’t just do something, stand there!” - Reagan, amongst others.
I think this goes back to the last thread. If we had been better shots at hunting RINO’s, we might have the moral strength in Washington to say NO.
People in this country are so obsessed with money and materialism - this is the real problem we are seeing now. Everyone feels they are entitled to the “American Dream.” The “American Dream” used to mean if you work hard you’ll make some decent money, have a nice little house.
Now it means everyone thinks they should have a massive house as soon as they leave college (with no money down!), drive two nice cars,wear designer clothes,and have a big screen TV in every room. And if they can’t get it - they cry and moan and blame someone else.
It’s unfortunate people place such importance on money and stuff. I’m trying desperately to raise my kids not to beleive that crud. It’s hard when it is everywhere around us in this country though.
OOPS! I ment the next thread. Working my way backwards…..
Democracys always fail due to loose fiscal policy, once the electorate understands that they can vote for the person who will give them the most from Government Largesse.
Been said by many, listened to by few.
#27 that’s is correct if we were a democracy but, we’re a republic.
Bear1909 thanks for the excellent post #22. I wish I had the means to start investing in gold, but right now with the rate of inflation we will be fortunate to afford going to the coast of Oregon Saturday for a well earned week of relaxation.
Our Republic appears to going the way of Democracies of the past. The political class is successfully bribing the electorate with their own stolen wages. I have said it once and have to say it again, we are so screwed!
Ok, so my wife and I are now in a bad loan that keeps jacking up the payments because of the type of loan it is; but because we have accepted responsibility for being the ones to have the final say and sign on the dotted line, we have been proactive and have contacted our mortgage company to work something out. Most banks and other lending institutions don’t want to own your home since it doesn’t do them any good to sit empty, so they will work with you if you try to do the responsible thing.
The last thing I want or need is the government to bail me out for two reasons; 1) my parents taught me this whole “responsibility thing,” but 2) any time the government does anything like this, there are strings attached. No thanks.
#28: yes, we all know this. this does not change the fact that our representatives are elected democratically.
Let us all join with lgm and give all of our money to the government and beg for help, forgiveness and mercy.
Our mortgage here was finally paid off in full just a few months ago. Woohoo!
This is what worries me, not housing. Even if the libs lose the White House again, we are bound to wind up with a Democrat Senate and House, and a Republican President who is eager to agree with the media and Democrats and fight with conservatives to “get things done”.
I trust McCain on the war being waged in a serious way.
The other things not to trust are legion.
Judges.
Taxes.
Energy Policy/Global Warming.
Immigration/Border Security.
Guantanamo/Interrogation/Intelligence.
International Relations/U.N./Law of the Sea Treaty.
and so on.
We are so screwed.
Gosh I sure hope they put in that earmark for Muslims Against Everything I Stand For! Wouldn’t wanna leave THEM out. That would be……racist.
Makes me want to stop paying my Mortgage…what’s the use…I’ll get bailed out eventually…maybe.
The King of Spenders got religion finally. Too little, too late for the country.
#31 If you really want to get specific our election process is a representative democracy. But, we’re still a republic not a democracy not matter how you want to slice it. When you find the word democracy in the constitution get back to me.
My God, what is wrong with you people??!! Don’t you understand that letting people bear the consequences of their own bad decisions, is downright mean???????
Yeah, right. Until you check somewhere else in the bill where is says you can’t ask anyone’s immigration status while processing their aid request.
http://patriotpost.us/histdocs/crockett_not_yours_to_give.asp
not much I can add to that other than I wish we had representation like this today…
What bewilders me is that most people don’t even know we’re a republic. I asked my wife, and she even said we were a democracy. Heck, even dictionary.com seems to think we’re a
democracy like Canada.
(see 2nd definition)
No problem, the 96% of the responsible can take out second mortgages and cash out savings to bail out the 4% flippers, illegals and folks who are victims [not responsible and clueless].
lgm ranted:
Vile of crack: $10.00
Glass pipe: $5.00
listening to lgm rant after a hitting the pipe: 2 cents
#36: looks like you’re itching for a fight that no one was looking to pick. we are a republic of 50 states. no one is denying this. no one said anything about the word “democracy” being in the Constitution. turn your civics dial back from 11, and pay attention:
#27 was repeating a famous quote. regardless of the nature of our government, it is applicable to us.
i said our representatives are elected democratically. then you come back with “If you really want to get specific our election process is a representative democracy.” Well what the hell do you think “our representatives are elected democratically” means?
I’m glad you’re excited and interested about our government and how it works. That’s fantastic, but you should be a bit more discerning on who you’re looking to talk down to.
#40: what bewilders me is people who look to correct others and jump in with both feet when no correction was necessary, especially when they have no idea to whom they’re talking.
#43 Awe somebody’s feeling were hurt. Actually I honor our government that’s why I spent 7yrs in school!
Y&R (#17) said:
This “American Dream” you refer to is analogous to the uber-evil “free-market” the libs hate so much. But you’re exactly right. The market soars and a segment of the population has to work harder to achieve the home ownership dream. But when it swings back and sags, it allows many of these folks the opportunity to realize this dream. The market will work itself out. This is a fact. When home prices are high, the “little” people suffer (i.e. have to keep renting an aparment, townhome, etc.). When home prices drop, the “big” people suffer (i.e. lose equity in their inflated-value homes). If the market takes off again, do the “little” people have the right to expect the government to buy them a home they can’t afford because the market “isn’t being fair”? Imagine the backlash from wealthy tax payers in a boom housing economy being told that the government is going to start buying houses for poorer people (using tax revenues from the overburdened wealthy) because it’s not fair they can’t afford a house. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. Just let the market work.
I guess you have to suffer from a politically expedient condition. If you lost your job or got sick in 2004 causing the sale of your home, you don’t get any help because there is no political benefit for our elected officials. If however you overbought as a speculator in 2006 and your property goes upside down in 2008, yep, you’ll get a taxpayer provided bailout because its politically expedient for our trusted public servants to provide it. Go figure.
Man am I glad we built our house ourselves. We never had a mortgage and we are as happy as can be in our 1100sq ft home. Very nice and very comfortable. AND PAID FOR
Were all of the members of Congress voted as the :
LESSER OF TWO EVILS?
Seems like they don’t have the responsible U.S. citizens’ interests at heart.
What a fool I was to save my money for a house in a market where a starter home is $.5 million. I should have just done what everyone else did.
Capital flight, here we come.
If you can’t afford to pay for your home then sell it and rent.
This is not my problem!!!
I am a renter and my taxes should not be going to this!
This is total BS!!!!
BTW,
Maybe I should of screwed myself with an outrageous loan that the bank and I knew I could not afford and then the government could of come in and saved me too!
What a crock!
Is it too late to stop making our house payments on time so we can take advantage of this?
This all because of that fuzzy math the schools taught, which lead people to believe that they could buy more than they could afford.
The politicians of both parties are in a panic. This makes me believe that the situation is worse than portrayed - and that the reality of this financial mess is being pushed past the November elections. The next President and Congress will be faced with the problem - but they will then have 2 years to clean things up. (If Obama gets elected, then the bottom is really not measurable as he will undertake to institute depression era FDR type policies.)
Evil is in the eye of the potential voter. Too many in CONgress haven’t had the responsible citizens’ interests at heart for decades - only their own, their favorite lobbiest sugardaddies, and their own constituants for whom they bring home the earmarks who would hardly consider them evil. Hence, being re-elected over and over again. Robert Byrd and John Murtha anyone?
They only have the responsible citizens tax payment in mind and heart - and are only interested in the them dutifully, and without question, paying the taxes for other peoples irresponsibility.
I’m glad I get up and work in morning so I can help out!
Congress is a bunch of whores. I guess it’s appropriate that Barney Frank is running this show since he runs a gay whore house out of his home.
the bottom feeding slugs from my state voted Yes…. McCollum, Walz, and Imam Ellison.
What I saw worse was both Diaz Balart reps voted yes as well.
This whole show is entirely unconstitutional. Does anyone in D.C., know of the 10th amendment? Have we now granted the national government complete power over our lives? Apparently so, since no-one seems to care at all; just stand there with their hand held out. Might as well disband the SCOTUS, it has become a waste of taxpayer money anyway. No one pays attention unless it agrees with their politics. Use the money saved to fund the bail-out. What next, democrats? What new crisis will you invent to attain even more power and turn the U.S.into the Socialist Republic of America? The sad part about it all is that few people care. The “Great Experiment” is failing and few stop to mourn. I suspect their next move is to subsidize SUV owners with our money to help with high gas prices. Why not? They subsidize everything else now. “If you get less than 30mpg on your car, here’s a check for your depression. Don’t forget to vote for me.” We have a national government now, not a federal government. We’ve had that since FDR. Founding Fathers…yeah, those guys we love to condemn now in our school books…put a distinction between the two. Stalin suggested that the government should take away the liberty a little at a time. One day the citizens will wake up and find they have none. Working pretty well in this country…once was a bastion of freedom and constitutional government. It’s become like the old Soviet constitution. Worthless.
Totaly unrelated, but you should see the “massive” code pink protest on the fox “protest cam” from berkley. There are maybe 4 or 5 of them there looking kind of pathetic.
Is it too late for me to take on too much debt and buy a house I can’t afford so I can push my snout in this new government trough full of preventable foreclosure cash? I mean, I’d rather get the free government money than pay it for my foolish decision not to climb on top of the housing bubble.
And really, if these homeowners can pay their mortgage, what’s their problem? They haven’t lost any money on their home as long as they don’t sell it. They’re just walking away from a sour investment and passing their risk on to us. Would we have gotten a cut of the profit if it had gone the other way?
It reminds me of the old warning that the fatal flaw of democracies is that citizens will vote to loot the treasury to enrich themselves individually to the detriment of the public.
So now we are bailing out people whose homes are with less ON PAPER than what they borrowed? Next, we’ll have to pay the government when our houses appreciate and are worth MORE than our mortage!!
Ssshhh, Pat. The democrats might be eavesdropping!
So if I stop paying my mortgage, I get governement money right? Aside from the credit rating issues, what is my incentive to actualy pay my mortgage now?
Welcome to the Socialist Republic of America. If you are illegal, irresponsible, hate the ‘old’ American culture of freedom, and want all Americans dead, then you are welcome here. If you are a legal, tax-paying, responsible citizen, then you are now considered second-class oppressors and are duty bound to give up all your rights and become slaves to the oppressed illegal aliens, America-haters and Sharia creepers. Your only hope now is to renounce all religions but the ‘true’ religion, donate 50% of your income (after tax) to bail out irresponsible lenders, borrowers, and subsidize all sorts of goodies for illegals, and then bend over and take whatever you are told to take, and never ever ever speak out, or you will be labeled a racist.
Unless of course you’re a democratic politician, in which case you are above the law, just like the illegals are.. at least until the illegals and the islamics take over government as well.
Where is John Galt?
As an occasional real estate speculator, I will be watching for my check in the mail. Thanks for the bailout, federal government!
MNUSMCDavid: John Galt is the angry white male who will have his say in the upcoming election and will demand that the government stop its growing insanity.
John Galt said:
Why is it moral to serve others, but not yourself? If enjoyment is a value, why is it moral when experienced by others but not by you? Why is it immoral to produce something of value and keep it for yourself, when it is moral for others who haven’t earned it to accept it? If it’s virtuous to give, isn’t it then selfish to take?
Your acceptance of the code of selflessness has made you fear the man who has a dollar less than you because it makes you feel that the dollar is rightfully his. You hate the man with a dollar more than you because the dollar he’s keeping is rightfully yours. Your code has made it impossible to know when to give and when to grab…..
Is it ever proper to help another man? No, if he demands it as his right or as a duty that you owe him. Yes, if it’s your own free choice based on your judgment of the value of that person and his struggle….
In its brilliant youth this country showed the rest of the world what greatness was possible to Man and what happiness is possible on Earth. Then it began apologizing for its greatness and began giving away its wealth, feeling guilty for having produced more than its neighbors. (My) the enemy was an inverted morality and that my acceptance of that morality was its only power. I was the first of the men who refused to give up the pursuit of his own happiness in order to serve others….. (Ayn Rand.. Atlas Shrugged)
Sorry for the length… I felt it necessary. The collectivists are are trying to overwhelm us.
You know on my under 50k salary, I should go buy a 800,000 dollar house. I might default, but thats the fun of it, I get to keep it anyway.
How can people learn responsibility when they’re given the EZ Pass when they screw up?
Life is real. Our government should make sure we all know it. If you can’t afford it, don’t buy it, and if you decide to buy anyway, You’re screwed. Since the beginning of capitalism that has always been understood and has worked wonderfully.
I found this blurb interesting:
As if the foreclosure investment market weren’t super-heated enough, Congress is about to stoke the fire even higher.
The “Foreclosure Prevention Act of 2008″ contains a $7,000 tax credit (payable over two years) to anyone who purchases a foreclosed home within a year of the proposal’s enactment. Supposedly, this would help clear the nation’s swollen inventory of repossessed properties, thus propping up home prices in general.
But there’s the catch. For lenders as well as borrowers, foreclosure is an expensive hassle. If at all possible, most banks would rather avoid repossessing a house, which they must then try to resell. But, by making it cheaper to buy a foreclosed house than a comparable unforeclosed property, the tax credit makes it more feasible to sell one. The cost and hassle—for the lender—of foreclosure go down, and the benefits go up. Other things being equal, lenders would be that much more likely to foreclose—rather than to help homeowners stay in their houses on modified terms.
Gee, why didn’t we buy one of those 1.2 million dollar homes we looked at on a lark. Then we could be bailed out and continue to live beyond our means.
Society’s losers seem to be coming out smelling like roses while the rest of us who save, worked, bought houses we could afford and do without the grand tours of Europe and big, fancy cars smell like manure on the roses.
This really sucks and it’s only going to get worse if the socialist who will be the dim nominee wins.
Buckle up responsible people, it’s going to be a bumpy ride.
Glad my rep voted against this. We continue to pay the bills of people who are too stupid to figure out that they can’t afford something. It may look like a great house and just what they need but they know they can’t afford it. Just like we pay someone welfare because they have too many kids and can’t afford them either. Would be curious to know how many minorities/illegals this is going to bail out.
Yes, this certification will be really enforced - LMAO.
Ben Franklin
Looks like Barney really did a job on us folks.
Looks like Congress did a job on us. When is a conservative NOT a conservative?…. when he votes Yes on this!
11 said yes……. why support a republican who acts like a liberal….Why?
Please tell me how the complexion of Congress changes when a RINO is elected/supported?
My Rep. was a non-voter. Rick Larsen (WA)
Is it just me, or is Pelosi not listed on the roll call?
The biggest thing I note is that the final vote isn’t enough to override a veto.
This “debate” started on April Fools Day (How Appropriate) and Where does the U.S. Government’s “Bail-Out Fiascos” Stop?
Well, right now the marker is between Social Security-Medicare & Fiscally Irresponsible Americans that Bought a Home They Knew They Could NOT Afford.
Sure there was “some” predatory lending. Very little.
But when your last trip to the grocery store resulted in a bounced check at your bank – even a U.S. Unionized Public School Education tells you that you cannot afford a home of your own.
My wife and I moved 2 years ago “50 miles down the road” to have a parent with a life threatening ailment move in with us – (By The Way – We Taking Care of Our Loved One is still “Free of Charge” to the U.S. Taxpayer.)
We weren’t sure if the parent was going to survive their ailment so we leased a home for the last two years in case we needed to upsize or downsize for the long term.
What a mistake that was for my wife and I. If we were only from South of the Border or a Card Carrying Member of “The Racist” LaRaza - darn.
It now appears that we should have purchased a home we could not afford and wait around for the U.S. Government to “Bail-Out” what use to be considered just a personal “bad break” in life.
As the value of the dollar falls, the price of gas climbs like a rocket to the moon and jobs flea oversees, we have politicians in the federal government continuing to spend OUR money that physically – does NOT exist. It’s borrowed.
But weak-kneed Wall Street Agrees with the printing of additional Billions in dollars – The DOW rose 391 points on or near April 1st – the 8th largest increase in history. So I guess its “okay” [sigh].
Of course, On April 1st, the “Fiscally Responsible” Senate Republicans were patting themselves on the back for “Holding-Out” Until Senator Turban Durbin withdrew his ridiculous amendment that would allow lawyers and judges to “change” the interest rate or other mortgage terms.
This was a provision in the legislation intentionally inserted to make Trial Lawyers happy but also give the minority Republicans a small “victory” by having it removed from the legislation.
Now its the House’s turn.
How Sad. Washington is Broke. VOTE ALL the Bums Out!
And you wonder why people want “Change” this Presidential Election Cycle regardless of what that “Change” has in store for the Nation. These Americans Believe That It Cannot Get Any Worse With a Muslim Named Socialist as President.
And who does the Reverend “Damn” Wright Attack? The Irresponsible Americans Who Knowingly Bought Houses They Couldn’t Afford or the U.S. Government That Bails Them Out?
Taxing Your Asses Off.
Get used to it.
You voted Stupid!
You put Marxist Bastards in charge!
You are now Slaves of the Socialist States of America!
Now get back to work!
Freakin Mike Rogers!!! Wow, I am truly disappointed.
Can’t we just get a house and senate bailout instead?
Our representative Republic is broken beyond repair with Congress selling us out to big business and foreign invaders. I hope the 39 traitors will earn the wrath of their constituents in November. But, most people will go along like the good little sheeple they are and continue to pull the R lever no matter what.
Conservative values are screwed and so are we. I feel extremely betrayed by these lying crapweasels right now. The time is coming to water the tree of liberty very soon.
Oh yeah … Remember to throw-in a couple of Billion for the LaRaza to Help Spread the Chicago gangs to the suburbs as well.
http://newt.org/MyiBelong/iBelongProfile/tabid/97/pid/26/upmid/437/Default.aspx
(a shameless plug)
This is so ridiculous, what happened to personal responsibility?? Where is the bailout when stocks go down? Oh, that’s right, it’s Bush’s fault. When you lose too much at a casino? Oh, that’s right, it’s the casino’s fault. When you weigh too much? Oh, that’s McDonald’s fault. Must be nice to be a liberal and be so perfect that if something goes wrong, it must be some external force keeping you down. If you signed a deal over your head, don’t make your problem my problem. What is saddest about this is trying to reason with a liberal is like talking to a box of rocks. And it appears that there are more rocks these days than reason.
…….I had an amazing call today. A Republican Party asked me today on the phone (paraphrasing) if I could really allow either Democrat candidates to seat at the Oval Office?…..would I help the RNC by donating 50, 100, 200, 500, 1,000 or more dollars to prevent that from happening…..to which I told them that it didn’t make any difference since the Republican party was full of cowards and RINOs and had criticized The Club for Growth Political Action Committee. The Committee is trying to get CONSERVATIVE Republicans into office not pseudo-Republicans….why should I donate a penny to you people that continuously backstab Conservatives, more specifically the gang of 14?….give me a reason….he answered, very softly,…have a nice day. I think he got the message.
They’ll never learn.
Rio
Semper Fi!
Read “The Forgotten Man” by Amity Shlaes for an excellent review and explanation of how this socialist mindset got started. Give Toqueville credit for centuries ago recognizing that it could happen. But the blame lies where it always has: greed, lust for power, coveting what someone else has, etc. Situational ethics, lack of absolutes and moral relativity have all gnawed away at the United States’ moorings. To quote a well known philosopher: “We have met the enemy and he is us.” (Pogo)
Ain’t nobody gonna stop what’s happening unless we do it ourselves, one person at a time. Glenn Beck says he thinks there are pitchforks being sharpened and cauldrons of oil being boiled some places right now.
Oh yeah. God forbid that we hold anyone accountable for anything nowadays. Here we are, my wife and I, middle aged, about to rejoice in paying off our mortgage, and here comes the frigging congress with freebees for every donkey that thought they could afford a bazillion dollar house based on some exoitic interest rate scheme that makes the gambling halls in
Vegas look tame. What the f&%@ing hell is going on in D.C. Hello? Hello?
OK………
I’ll say it again………
This is the result of 20-30-40-50 years of voting for the LESSER OF TWO EVILS!
Well, one thing I can now say, with confidence…I’m a victim. I’m a victim of a tyrannical government and I want my “fair share”. I have to drive 52 miles RT to work and home. With gas prices the way they are, I want a bailout too. My fair share. Food prices have gone up and I want a bailout on that, too. My fair share. I think I’ll form a group…Code Chartruese…and go to Richmond, dressed as warlocks. Credit card interest is high. I want a bailout. My fair share.
Check it out: The mortgage crisis is a Democrat crisis.
Here’s a set of Red/Blue States maps:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_states
I like the purple version best…
Then take a look at Bernanke’s heat maps:
http://matrix.millersamuel.com/?p=1565
Notice in particular the map of the delinquency since 2004 map (Figure 3) and piggyback loans (Figure 7).
Then lastly, here’s the Democrat schedule of pain:
http://blog.metro-real-estate.com/?%20p=304
Acton pointed out the problem with democracy was the tyranny of the majority.
Particularly when the Democrats have decided that they want the high life on your dollar.
ps student loans are next
I’m disappointed in Deb Pryce. I expect better of her.
As to bail outs in principal, they make my blood boil. My mom was dumb enough to have two homes with ARMs and when she was complaining about the subprime bit I said “You have a masters degree, your partner has a PHD. You should have known better. Suck. It. Up.”
I just bought a condo, will be able to pay roughly 13 payments a year. In addition I’m paying roughly 16 payments a year on my student loans and am paying down some bad decisions with credit cards. So I’ve no sympathy for people who make bad choices.
Democrats opposing the bail out is like Chavez supporting a free press, or Castro supporting free markets.
If Pelosi and company weren’t RUNNING the House than you wouldn’t even have a bill that looks like this.
Malkin is part genius (marketing, new media) and PART BIG-TIME IDIOT (politics, and frankly media savvy).
when it comes to politics, Malkin believes a solid Republican Party with 40 votes in the Senate is the way to go. This way we can guarantee to have a 100% unified party, all the time, to veto socialist bills. (I prefer before, having 55 votes, designing the bills, getting a lot of them passed, and OCCASIONALLY losing a few when 6 or so Republicans cave for some reason or another).
Regarding media savvy, here is how it works. 1) AP and NY Times journalists write an article about how some Republican broke ranks. 2) Forward article to Malkin or wait until she finds it. 3) Count to 3 and click refresh to see Malkin foaming at the mouth to get said Republican out of Congress. 4) Repeat.
How about egging on the folks that CRAFTED the bill in the first place. How about trying to get THEM out?
I REPEAT
If Pelosi and company weren’t RUNNING the House than you wouldn’t even have a bill that looks like this.
Malkin is part genius (marketing, new media) and PART BIG-TIME IDIOT (politics, and frankly media savvy).
when it comes to politics, Malkin believes a solid Republican Party with 40 votes in the Senate is the way to go. This way we can guarantee to have a 100% unified party, all the time, to veto socialist bills. (I prefer before, having 55 votes, designing the bills, getting a lot of them passed, and OCCASIONALLY losing a few when 6 or so Republicans cave for some reason or another).
Regarding media savvy, here is how it works. 1) AP and NY Times journalists write an article about how some Republican broke ranks. 2) Forward article to Malkin or wait until she finds it. 3) Count to 3 and click refresh to see Malkin foaming at the mouth to get said Republican out of Congress. 4) Repeat.
How about egging on the folks that CRAFTED the bill in the first place. How about trying to get THEM out?
dj said (#87):
Here! Here! Let’s have George Bush (or Alberto Gonzalez or somebody) take personal responsibility for the US Attorney firings. Let’s have someone take personal responsibility for the WMD fiasco or the lack troops in Iraq that allowed chaos to develop.
It’s the responsibility of the boss — that’s George Bush.
I was once a die-hard “Suck. It. Upper” on the theory that people freely entered into these loan agreements and need to face the consequences of defaults. And, as a lawyer who does a fair bit of (commercial) creditor’s rights work, my ingrained sympathies do lie with financial institutions on these deals.
But facts are facts. When the housing market “crashes,” that crash causes significant ripple effects that affect the quality of life of all the people who DID “play by the rules.” When six homes on your street are in foreclosure or are being short-sold or deed-in-lieued, that causes a panic that can crater home values, cause blights in neighborhoods, and take a tremendous amount of wealth out of the economy. I hate government intervention as a general principle, but if the government has $15 billion burning a hole in its pocket, I’d rather that money go to “softening” the landing of the housing market than to more agricultural subsidies or something.
lgm:
Why not take your left-wing rantings to MoveON.org’s site? The attorney firings, are you kidding me? We’re still on THAT non-story? The fact you and your Dim friends made such hay out of it tells us all we need to know about your ability to govern. Pelosi and company ride into Congress promising all these wonderful things…what happened? How much has gas gone up since THEY took over? How many hearings have been held trying to score political points when they could’ve been addressing the major issues that face this country? No, we’re not going to address drilling for oil or changes to the FISA law or anything of importance…instead, we’re going to pound our gavels and pontificate for the cameras and do everything we can to make mountains out of molehills.
How does that “feed the children”, lgm?