Saturday gun bleg: storing a handgun safely in the house around kids (UPDATED)
[***This post is written by regular guest-blogger See-Dubya, not by Michelle. Send your suggestions to goseedubgo-at-gmail.com.***]
Let’s say, hypothetically, that a blogger was going to be moving in the not-too-distant future to a state and city with somewhat sane gun laws.
And let’s say, hypothetically, that that blogger wanted to be able to keep a medium-to-large defensive handgun ready-to-go in the master bedroom where it would be secure during the day but quickly accessible in the event of trouble.
But let’s say, hypothetically, that this blogger also has small kids who are good kids, extremely bright and curious, but still too young to be trusted around guns. And by “extremely bright” I mean rhesus-monkey-after-tourist-candy-bars clever; capable of (e.g.) improvising stepladders and using keys on padlocks.
Obviously, the best safety mechanism is educating kids about guns. That will happen, but they’re not ready for that yet and even if they were, secure storage would still be an issue. Even if they were very well-trained, this blogger still wouldn’t want them to be able to get hold of a gun if he’s not there with them.
So, merely concealing a gun is right out (even without the kids, this hypothetical blogger wouldn’t want to leave a gun loose in the house where an intruder could run across it and just pick it up.)
I’ve looked into a couple of things on this. One is those electronic combination boxes or thumbprint-ID boxes, which is effectively a bedside mini-safe. Seems a reasonable compromise, but my friend Old Shootin’ Buddy asked someone very knowledgeable about those, and got this reply:
I don’t trust those cheap electronic locks. I’ve seen too many fail. We’ve opened a few of that type of bedside lock box with a hammer and a prybar because the lock has failed completely. If you have to lock it, lock it simply and mechanically.
I’m inclined to agree with that–one more electronic gizmo is one more thing that could fail when you really need it. But “simply and mechanically” offers trouble as well. If you use a box like a tool storage box with a key-locking mechanism, and keep the key on the same ring as one’s car keys, then you have to keep your car keys with you at all times. Can’t hang your keys on a hook in the front hall, can’t leave it on the nightstand while you shower, and if it falls off your key ring or you lose your keys, you’re temporarily disarmed until you can get to your duplicate.
There might not be a good solution to this problem. Since this blogger is moving to a fairly safe area (not perfect, but not bad) it might be that the best answer–the most rational balancing of all the reasonable risks– is just to throw the gun into a stand-up gun safe in the basement until the kids get old enough to try a more accessible arrangement, and rely on stout locks, an alarm system, the local PD, and a Louisville Slugger until then.
Unless there’s a better way that this hypothetical blogger hasn’t thought of yet. And if anyone could think of that, I’ll bet Michelle’s readers could. I’ll also bet that there’s a lot of readers who would be interested in a good answer to this problem.
I can understand not wanting to share–even with an internet alias–details of your home protection setup on a well-trafficked blog, so feel free to tip my g-mail account (goseedubgo). I may update this post with some good suggestions, though obviously I’m not going to tell you what that hypothetical blogger hypothetically chooses to do!
Last detail: one of the arguments for slower access–for example, keeping a semi-auto unloaded or without a round chambered–which I used to run into back when I read gun magazines was that “you didn’t want to get up all groggy with a loaded gun in your hand”. I’ve never bought into that. If I wake up with a sense that something’s wrong, adrenaline clears the sleep out of my head instantly. If glass cracks, every second counts.
UPDATES: Great comments and e-mails, thank you all very much, and keep them coming. Here are two themes that emerge:
SAFES– several people recommended the electronic or biometric safes despite what I’d heard from OSB’s expert. On the other hand, two people confirmed that they’d had trouble with one.
On the other hand, there are completely mechanical safes with what is called a “simplex” lock that you can bolt to furniture or to the floor from the inside. (Here’s a knowledgeable endorsement; many different brands were recommended.) These aren’t perfect–you have to train yourself to do it in the dark– but no one had ever failed to get one open, so that looks like the best option. I realize it won’t stop a determined burglar who has an unlimited amount of time, but hopefully a dog and an alarm can interrupt his leisure. If the hypothetical blogger goes out of town its contents into a more secure location. It will stop a curious babysitter or an undisciplined sleepover friend, which is one of my main concerns. Until he gets that safe working, the hypothetical blogger might consider a cable lock looped through the action of the revolver he may or may not yet own, so the cylinder can’t close, and then looped around some heavy furniture. A key can unlock the cable at night.
But that’s got to be temporary. There were some recommendations that I either wear my gun at all times or keep it locked with a key lock and keep the key around my neck. Sorry, but that will just be too hard to explain at the next cuddle party!
EDUCATION– Amazing how many people had had some extremely serious, memorable initiation by a parent that made a lasting impression on them. Some people had a demonstration of what a gun would do to a melon, some just received an especially frank and serious lecture or warning. This happened to me as well and while I’m interested in the NRA’s Eddie Eagle program, I know this sort of thing works and though I’m not sure exactly what I’ll do or say, I intend to try it when my kids get curious about guns.
In my case, I was four and had asked to see my dad’s gun. I remember him quite clearly sitting in his office, holding a giant Peacemaker Colt, and sighting carefully down the loading gate as he turned the cylinder several times. More than just the six it would hold–he must have turned it all the way through four or five times. CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK. I remember distinctly the neat CLACK each turn made, and the seriousness with which my laid-back dad took the process impressed me with the importance of what was going on, even more than the lecture about not pointing this at anyone, etc. that followed.
I suppose like a lot of matters in raising kids, a proper parental example is far more powerful than we realize.
As for what to put in the safe, that’s a subject for another weekend…
OH YEAH–I told this guy I’d plug his book: Home Invasion Prevention. Looks interesting!
______________
{Post by See-Dubya}
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No, it is not. Scroll up and read the post.
Geez, another dog nut. You forgot the shotgun and the concealed carry permit.
Teach your kids how to shoot. Teach them that guns are tools and can’t hurt anybody unless the person handling them is stupid or they want to hurt someone.
My kids know how to use them, they know where they are hidden, and they know never to touch them.
I take them to the range on a regular basis.
I won’t be fumbling with some stupid key if some druggy makes the mistake of breaking into my house at night.
I’m 46 and have been raised with guns, not dead, so far, because I was taught that they are NOT a toy but a tool.
Rules from my father:
EVERY gun is loaded and should be treated accordingly!!!
Every gun you handle, YOU will check the chamber and ascertain it IS, in fact, UNLOADED!
ALWAYS, when handling a weapon (of any type), keep the BUSINESS END pointed AWAY from you or any other living thing!
If you are, say, cleaning your weapon and friends show up unexpectedly – Rack and Lock Back the action; open the bolt; or Break the action! Render the weapon inoperable without effort!
Gun Safety IS EVERYONES responsibility. If you or one of your friends comes across a gun – TAKE CONTROL; USE YOUR KNOWLEDGE; SAFE THE WEAPON; AND GET AN ADULT!
These rules were STRICTLY ENFORCED and there was an ABSOLUTE KNOWLEDGE by everyone that Dad would SERIOUSLY mess you up if you disobeyed!
My two cents worth, but it worked for me (to this day)!
Here’s two-cents worth from a retired cop who had small children in his home during my police career:
1) Buy a revolver, whatever calibre you want.
2) Buy a pair of “Peerless” or “Smith and Wesson” handcuffs. You’ll get two keys when you make the purchase.
3) During the day, when you don’t need quick access to the weapon, swing open the loaded cylinder, loop one of the open handcuffs around the top-strap (that’s the bar that goes across the top of the weapon) and close the handcuff. The loaded (or unloaded, if you prefer) cylinder can’t be closed and you can store the weapon anywhere you want to. The weapon is now safe and childproof. Even if the children do get their hands on it, they cannot load or fire it.
4) Keep the handcuff key on a small chain around your neck. Lock the spare key in a safe place, just in case you somehow lose the one that’s hanging around your neck.
5) At bedtime, unlock the handcuff (takes about one second), remove the cuff from the top-strap (takes about another second), close the loaded cylinder (a half-second), and put the weapon where you need it for quick access during the night.
I secured my duty weapons like this for years while my kids were small.
Sounds like a lot of good ideas. I know another hypothetical person who likes to keep one near where he sleeps but doesn’t want young’uns to have the temptation present to get at it.
This hypothetical person keeps the long guns in a safe, and keeps one in the closet, in a between the studs safe, like this one. It mounts so it’s flush with the wall in the closet.
If you wanted to, you could leave it open at night. Or, keep the keys with you at night for relatively easy access.
It’ll keep unintended hands off it, and it’s concealed enough that a thief may not find it. (it could be pried open with the right tools, but with the right tools and enough time, so could most safes)
Teaching kids gun safety works, but
Ithe hypothetical person prefer(s) to be the only one with access to them.Blackbird,
Take your bunched knickers and please fly away. You are not wanted on this thread. And your suggestion to allow a child to play with a gun is just disturbing and dangerous at the very least. The topic of the post is gun storage and safety and I believe most of the people posting here have stayed with the central theme. If see-dubya had a problem with going off topic he would redirect the comments as he has done in the past.
Great discussion and advice…..nothing better on a Saturday than a good gun chat.
Have to laugh about the dog defense aspect though, at least in my case. I have an American Bulldog…98 pounds and huge. Looks very ‘dangerous’ and nearly everyone who sees her immediately backs up. She is the biggest wimp dog I have ever had, totally scared of everything. While her looks alone will hopefully give someone pause….truth is if they give a loud BOO she will break her neck getting under the bed poste haste! 
http://www.vlineind.com/html/products.html
I think v line products are outstanding. No electrical to go haywire. Can accomodate long guns or just hand guns. Long gun in the closet mounted flush in the wall secred to studs. Hand gun safe in dresser/nightstand bolted to a drawer. Push button combo.
Couple of things I HAVE to mention.
1. “CLIPS” They are called magazines not “clips.” Unless you are shooting an SKS or a Garand ( or some other gun which actually requires clips) use the correct terminology.
2. “RACKING THE SHOTGUN AS A DETERRENT” This is a ridiculous urban myth. If a bad guy is in your house you should have the chamber loaded and be thinking/preparing to use deadly force. If the bad guy happens to hear the action being worked that is simply incidental to what you should be doing.
P.S. regarding bats or machetes or swords, see the story on the Washington Redskins football player who was murdered this past season. He used a machete to defend against a home intruder. He was shot and killed.
It is an old cliche, but knives/swords/bats don’t belong at a gun fight.
Florida Bill.
Sounds EXACTLY like the rules my dad had about guns.
Also, to the original question about kids and safety. I would say there are several options outside of a safe, or trigger lock.
1 Keep the magazine loaded but seperate, or if it is a revolver, keep the speed loader seperate.
2 Keep your bedroom locked unless you are in there, this will insure that the little ones cannot get the weapon.
3 Educate your child about the gun(s) and teach them their purpose, operation, and deadliness.
4 Also, choose a weapon with a better safety. Not all safeties are the same. I own a Colt 1911 .45, I bought it in 1991, it has two safeties, one which prevents a round being chambered, the other on the grip, requires a very strong grip to depress it allowing it tobe fired. A small child does not possess the hand strength to press it down.
Talk to Kim du Toit. He should have some good ideas, or can steer you towards someone who will.
I like this one !!!!
RedWinged Blackbird,
You are offering advice that can, in many states, get a person locked up. There are more than a few jurisdictions that would charge someone practicing what you preach with child endangerment and possibly institute proceedings to terminate parental rights. I cannot believe you seriously made that statement.
All firearms are assumed to be loaded weapons. Being deadly weapons, the only safe way to handle them is to assume they are loaded at all times. It is not only Rule Number 1 in firearm safety classes it is also part of military firearm instruction. More firearm related accidents happen due to the failure to follow that rule.
I would expect such a comment from some liberal troll out to stir up some crap. If that is not the case, it would appear that you have cheated Darwin thus far in your life. The advice you gave here is beyond irresponsible and is borderline insane. Appalling is a term that comes to mind.
Not only that, your comments here have more than a fair chance of finding their way into some anti-second amendment cause. You, sir, are a hero to the Brady Group and their counterparts.
If you actually believe what you are advocating here, it would be wise to keep your thoughts to yourself. Better to be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.
Thats important, and good.
I’m writing before reading the other comments, but this IS important.
NEVER have a loaded gun in the house with kids.
It takes less time to load the gun than open the safe/lock/whatever.
Hide the ammo ( only enough for emergency, i.e. one clip) in a HIGH up, secure, unremarkable place like on top of high dresser/top of picture frame/ taped behind something/ or in secret bed frame spot, etc.
Lock up the remainder of your ammo in a safe/gun safe, …?
Have your handgun near your bed and then practice getting up and loading the weapon when no one is around.
Clear the weapon , clean the weapon, then put it away.
Never tell the kids you have a ’special’ stash of ammo, they’ll never know to look, thinking all your ammo is in lock up.
DON’T HAVE A GUN IN or TOO NEAR ANY AMMO IN THE HOUSE!!!!!!!
Alarms (and a dog) are cheaper than gunshot wounds and far better than funerals.
My daughter knows that anytime she wants to look at my gun, she only has to ask. If she does, I stop what I’m doing, get it, unlock/unload it, and hold it for her so she can investigate it. I patiently wait until she is done looking and touching it. It never leaves my hand. She is 6 years old.
Even with her toy gun, she has been shown how to hold it with her finger off the trigger, and never to point it at people or the dogs.
I ordered coloring books for children from the NRA and we went through them together. She knows it’s a serious thing.
My gun is totally locked up at all times, but I still want her to be educated – she may see a gun at someone else’s house.
p.s. my dad gave me my first gun when I was seven years old, a 22 rifle.
He taught me respect of ammo and guns and gin cleaning ad nauseum from then on, continually. I never touched live rounds unless we were going shootin’.
We went shooting often (20-25 times a year) for fun and , what I see now, he was teaching me about hand guns and rifles and the utmost respect for them.
Ted Nugent has a couple of funny quips about guns and those who would take them away from Americans.
One says that if guns cause crime, then all of his are defective.
He also notes that millions of YOU/US will not have gun accidents today, but those who choose crime and irresponsible life choices have gun “accidents” all the time.
If it comes that close, play time is over and it is time to pay the piper and get in the dance or lose your chance forever.
IMHO
Next time you are in a gun store try and rack the slide on a Desert Eagle 50AE. I know of no child, or even my wife, that has the strength to chamber a cartridge on this model firearm. Having said that, and even though I have a CCW permit in the state of Arizona, I don’t think I could keep a loaded firearm in my home if there were children present. I would have pepper spray and a baseball bat and hope for the best until they could be trusted. But thats just me.
SEMPER FIDELIS
#115.
My Dad did the same. Never touched his gun without him there. Neither did any of my sisters.
He also offered a little unfortunate tale of a boy on his block whose life was ended early on account with playing with them.
Locks wont always work (although, helpful) education is key.
He kept the bullets separate as well.
CCW. carry it with you at all times. Therefore you do not have to worry about someone stealing it and you have it if you need it. Just my thought.
A friend of mine once fired both barrels of a double barrel 12 gauge ‘from the hip’, it wasn’t pretty. I’m not sure which movie the Dufus got the idea from. Needless to say, nobody said ‘wow, I think I’ll try that’.
Has anyone run up against workplace rules that prevent a handgun (or other weapon) on the premises?
How does concealed carry work in those instances? What do you do with your handgun in that case?
My employer is explicit on the ban on weapons in the workplace, including the parking lot. (They have no means to detect the latter.)
I realize that one option is: find another job, but that isn’t very realistic for most people.
ttevolla,
Firing from the hip looks cool in the make believe world but in the real world people who know what they’re doing don’t do it.
DougT
In FL you can have your gun in your car at work — Crist just signed it into law this year.
single stack wrote “At home defense range a shotgun is like a rifle. The shot doen’t spread immediately upon leaving the barrel. At home defense range it is essentially a solid mass. The shotgun must be aimed. Don’t get your firearm knowlege from movies.”
never said that the shot spreads immediately upon exiting the barrel.
I don’t get my firearm knowledge from movies but rather from practice and research.
Try this website for further information
http://www.firearmsid.com/A_distshotpatt.htm
note the following from the above
“At ranges of around 5-10 feet* the shot and wadding mass will produce a single large hole in a target. If the target happens to be a person, the wadding material will be blown into the wound tract with the pellets.”
and all firearms must be “aimed”. At a distance greater than 10 feet I count point the shotgun as the spread will ensure that my shot will strike the intruder.
here are two more websites that can be checked out
http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/87648
http://www.internetarmory.com/shotgun_ammo.htm
Mine are seven and 10, and they each have one under their beds. That’s the kind of trust we have in our kids. They’ve known how to handle guns for years.
Show them the gun. Take them shooting. Buy a semi auto they cannot pull the slide. Bt shooting the gun with them present it takes away the mystery. My brothers wife would not allow even toy guns in her house and her kids became obsessed with them. It’s probably not your kids you have to worry about, it’s their friends and my brothers kids.
My father was a police officer. I dont recall ever thinking about his weapon when I was younger. When I reached my teens, I knew where it was kept, but I never ever touched it. As an adult, I’m not a gun nut, but I am proficient with the two weapons I own. I operate a machine shop in my garage. I am more worried about a break in there than I am my house.
I’m a firm believer that many people are attacked or burglarized by people who watch and know their routine. People you know are watching you!
I caught the neighborhood kids scoping out my property a week or so ago. I walked out and cornered them between my garage and the only way out, my front gate. The little bastards aren’t afraid of adults these days. Anyway, I caught some young adults taking a real slow drive by my home yesterday. I’ve seen the car drive down my street before, but now I am on the hunt for where its parked at night.
My Model 97 Winchester rests upright behind my bedroom door, loaded and ready.
There won’t be a gun in my house. I say that as, even though I’d like to have a .357 just like my father, the risk is simply too great. Someone in my house struggles with mental illness, and I don’t think I could protect the weapon enough to keep it out of said hands in a time of crisis.
Having gotten that bit of info out of the way, I’ll say that it is such a respect for guns, taught by my father, that led me to such a decision. Here’s how he handled the matter:
Before the age of ten, his .357 hand-cannon was out of sight at all times. I knew he owned it, but I didn’t know where he kept it. It actually was in the nightstand, but it was at the bottom of a whole bunch of papers. I got punished severely the one time I started innocently looking through it, and that was the end of that.
At age ten, I started learning how to shoot. I learned quite well, I might add. To quote my dad, I can give any target at any reasonable distance “a serious case of heartburn.”
We started with an air rifle and Coke cans and worked our way up to the pistol. One time, the pistol went off before I had intended for it to fire; that was enough of a lesson by itself, and the talking-to that I got after that point was just icing on the cake. I shot his .22 rifle a grand total of once; at my age of 15, it kicked back so hard upon this wimp that its loader ended up hitting me between the eyes and cutting me almost to the point of needing stitches!
Dad keeps his loaded .357 either on him or by him at all times. He keeps the trigger padlock on it at all times that it’s not on his body, too. He has only one key for that lock, and it’s on his key ring. Said ring is loaded with about 20 different keys, so it’s not immediately obvious to someone who doesn’t know the key which one is the one to use. (I wouldn’t know which one it is!) If he somehow found himself in crisis without his weapon in hand and someone else trying to unlock it, there’s the handy backup of the Louisville Slugger, and I’d take that against an unusable firearm any day.
DougT
State laws regarding concealed carry will vary. In Arizona, a private business has the right to ban firearms on premises but they must post a sign stating this and they must have the means to safely hold the firearm while you are on their premises.
I knowingly and willingly broke the law every night at work. In the late 90s I was the overnight manager on duty at a very large retailer, in southern CA locale. The store was one of the first to go 24 hours, and was one driveway literally from the freeway entrance. I had 30+ employees working that shift with me, mostly stockers with one cashier up front. And a very slow PD response in this small high desert town. The company had a very firm no weapon rule, nevertheless I had my trusty ‘little sister’ with me at work always. Usually in my purse just outside the cash office door or if it felt necessary tucked into the back of my waistband. All my employees knew I had it, not one ever reported it. It ‘felt’ dangerous sometimes in that place at night and we all felt better knowing there was at least a minimum of defense available. I thought it was beyond stupid to leave us all unprotected with unlocked wide open doors then and still do.
btw….not just some gun happy grandma here!
Both my father and grandfather when I was growing up and later the USArmy taught me well, both gun safety and how to be a darn good shot! Not an irresponsible fun toter here.
To disable a revolver, lock a padlock around the top strap and keep the key handy. You may wish to use tape on the padlock to protect the gun’s finish.
Regarding semi-autos, use a cable lock. If the slide can’t go into battery then the weapon will not fire. These have worked for me.
sheesh…make that gun’ toter.
pakurilecz,
“If you want a home defense weapon then get a shotgun. all you have to do is point it in the direction of the bad guy. a pistol you have to aim”
“and all firearms must be “aimed”. At a distance greater than 10 feet I count point the shotgun as the spread will ensure that my shot will strike the intruder”
I recommend you do some more practice and research. I have over 40 years experience with shotguns and I’ve patterned dozens, some specifically to check shot spread at home defense ranges. You’re making some unwarranted assumptions that could get innocent people hurt and you in a lot of trouble. You are responsible for every pellet.
Let me see if I can actually answer the question asked. Get one of those space saving blanket/comforter bags that you vacuum to reduce volume. Fill it to capacity with bedding and place the revolver in between folds in the center of the bag. Vacuum per bag directions. The vacuuming reduces volume and distorts weight perception effectively hiding the weapon. Access is easy and quick but the sealed bag is boring to both kids and thieves. Store under bed in easy reach when needed.
Let’s drop this myth that guns must be stored unloaded, locked, and separate from ammo for safety concerns. Research does not support this.
National Review Article:
If you want a gun for protection, have one LOADED, and easily accessible. It may be locked, if you want, but in a safe that can open in a couple seconds, not minutes. Then train family members.
Otherwise, don’t kid yourself and pretend the gun is there for protection, however enjoyable it may be to shoot recreationally.
It has to do with being alive while a wild animal rips you limb from limb and eats you. Not a pleasant thought. My brother trained guard dogs for the Air Force. Yes, the presence of a large dog is quite a deterrent. This is similar to the school of thought about the mounted police. No one likes the idea of being trampled to death by a horse. Great for crowd control.
On to the guns –
It seems like the concensus here is EDUCATION. When the children are young, make sure they live in mortal fear of even touching your guns. Age appropriate firearm training and understanding as they get older.
For home defense, a SigSauer P226 in .40 S&W, full clip, no round in the chamber, kept on – or close to – your person at night. Locked away during the day in a safe of your choice. If you live in a area where daytime security is a problem, you have two choices:
1) Keep the pistol on your person at all times
2) Move
Endnote – This actually appeared on the evening news in the San Francisco Bay Area (!) about 5-10 years ago. An african-american man lived alone in his apartment in SF. He was about 80 years old at the time. He killed an intruder during the night with the snub-nosed .38 he kept with him for self defense. He was even interviewed! The local SF press wasn’t even distainful about it. That suprised me. Guess how many problems he had with intruders after that?
A chalk outline and some blood stains makes a wonderful deterrent, too.
As you can see, certain topics provide fodder for endless debate in the gun community.
Some that have been touched on in this thread:
1)Proper storage methods. Most gun enthusiasts do not consider unloaded and inaccessible appropriate. Beyond that, everyone has different ideas.
2)Best home defense gun. Shot gun? Hand gun? AR? I can’t tell you how many threads I’ve read about this.
3)Proper “condition” of the accessible gun. Unloaded with ammo nearby (very few believe this)? Loaded with an empty chamber? Cocked and locked? I’ve come to accept the latter as most safe (for 1911 handguns), even though it “looks scary”.
Anyway, the debate is part of the fun, just like with other hobbies or sports. Similarly, everyone has their opinion about the “only” way to make a Martini.
But one topic where there is consensus is that gun use for self-protection is a last resort. Great attention needs to be focused on other areas of security too (lighting, ?dog, alarm systems, locks, cell phone, etc.
There are many websites that cover all things gun. My favorite is AR15.com. They cover ALL firearm-related topics, not just ARs, and they have a huge amount of traffic. And don’t miss their General Discussions, where any topic imaginable is discussed; from politics to your favorite peanut butter. The site has people from all walks of life; professors, lawyers, teachers, farmers, police. Some even say Steve Tyler lurks there.
I actually saw a clip of this on tv – it is the funniest thing advocating gun locks that I’ve ever seen!!
The whole article by Dale Steinreich:
Children (and most teenagers and small women) cannot cock a .45 auto. Try it. I am now in a house with grand children (ages 7 & 8). Neither my son nor my grand children will pick up my guns. They all know the guns are there. However… that’s the reason for the .45. My .44 special BullDog is a better combat gun as a misfire only requires pulling the trigger again, not having to jack the bad shell out. I’d rather err on the side of live kids and I am trained to clear a misfire (military training), thus the .45 auto is stored with the clip out in the night stand. If I didn’t have time to grab and load it means I’m hand to hand anyway. When we’re away so are the guns. Problem solved.
JSUT PUT IT IN THE OVEN
THAT ALWAYS WORKS
DougT,
Kentucky not only allows workplace weapons, they have a law preventing employers from banning you.
An unloaded gun is as good as a baseball for self defense.
I have one of these under my night stand. It takes 2 seconds to open it in complete darkness.
http://www.gunvault.com/
It has my Ruger GP100 .357 with a 4 inch barrel and a Crimson Trace laser grip. It’s amazing how far the laser goes at night and once it is sighted it, it allows you to keep your eyes on the target instead of the sight on the barrel.
Billy Mays
Are you gearing up for an infomercial perhaps??
I think we really need to try to figure out how old a child we are talking about. If the child is old enough, he needs to be taught gun safety and the respect of firearms. Take him shooting and teach him the basics. Blow a hole in something and he won’t soon forget. It is like firing a shotgun without having it firmly up against your shoulder. Even Homer Simpson would only do that once.
After that, just don’t put the clip in the gun and have the clip some place else handy and close. Or if you feel comfortable, put the clip in the gun and don’t cycle it. Like one poster said, most kids can’t cycle it and if they can, they are old enough to be taught safety. If all of these makes you too queezy (four tries on spelling this and I am sticking with this)than get a dog and forget the gun thing. Maybe a Samurai sword attached to the ceiling even.
I just cling to mine all day/night.
See-Dubya,
Your Hypothetical Blogger (HB) can’t go wrong with the consensus position here: education, demonstration, serious consequences of playing with Daddy’s gun, and some carefully supervised shooting when said child or children are even maybe old enough. The Eddie Eagle program sounds great.
The Gun Vault is a good choice. The simplex lock safes with the key back up sound better as there is not need to worry about batteries. In either case, having a back up key should there be a problem with the pushed combination is vital.
There were a couple of good ideas for the gun. The idea of a pistol with a hard-to-rack slide is good, as would a larger semi-auto with a grip safety. (Both mentioned before, but I wanted to emphasize these points, rather than just adding a summary to this thread.) A revolver that required a very stiff pull would also limit the ability of a curious child from getting too deeply into trouble (to put it delicately).
Please congratulate HB on his choice of a good domicile, and his concern for safety and protection. And thanks for an enjoyable thread that gives us a chance to talk of something important and other than scandal and stupidity by people who should know better.
Now that we’ve all been serious (as we should: it’s a serious topic), I’m going to jokingly observe that we must all be bitter people clinging to religion and guns–we’ve certainly proved the guns part.
And except for the bitter part, I wouldn’t have it any other way.
NOT AN INFOMERCIAL, BUT RATHER A PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT.
DON’T PUT YOUR GUNS IN THE OVEN!
EVEN THE POLICE PUT THEIR GUNS IN THE OVEN.
Backwoods has a good article by Massad Ayoob.
For me, it has boiled down to two modes. During waking hours, I simply carry the gun. On my person, it is at once always immediately accessible to me, and always inaccessible to unauthorized hands. If the lifestyle doesn’t allow the handgun to be worn visibly, a compact, powerful handgun like the Ruger SP101 .357 Magnum snub-nose revolver can be worn comfortably and discreetly concealed, “24/7.”
When asleep, I keep the weapon at bedside. If there are children (or adults, for that matter) in the home who are not at the level of development where they can be trusted around firearms 100%, the handgun should be in a locked security box in the bedroom, preferably a design like the Gun Vault, which can be released by feel in the dark by punching a simple combination into an ergonomic and easily palpable keypad. I currently live alone, so I just leave the pistol on the floor beside the bed, concealed from any intruder’s view by what appears to be a casually dropped magazine.
I am confident of my kids, their judgement, and the instruction I’ve given them, but I won’t bet their lives on it.
I also don’t trust my judgement immediately after waking up.
So I don’t keep a weapon near my bed. I don’t like the odds of danger versus the possibility of having an intruder.
I keep mine in the frig in the vegetable drawer under the arugula. The kids would never look in there, and only an elitist would try and steal the arugula. Needless to say, the sight of the gun would scare them away.
(I emailed my serious suggestions to see-dub)
OK, back to serious – #153, I can assure you from personal experience that adrenaline will clear your head faster than you would believe. In the time it takes to chamber a round, you’ll be awake.
Those posters claiming that their handgun’s action is too stiff to worry about a kid being strong enough to work it are missing something obvious…
Kids are creative with their toys, and they won’t necessarily handle the firearm in the same manner you would assume.
For example, if a kid notices the “slidey part” and wants to treat it like a pogo stick, he can put the slide on a bedrail or similar hard object and put his full weight into the handle.
Unless it takes 50+ lbs of pressure to cock your weapon, you might want to rethink the “child-proof” assumption.
A few days after I moved into my house (years ago now), I heard glass breaking in the basement (at that time, two easy access windows). I unlocked my 40 cal handgun trigger lock (took seconds), and started down the stairs- seating the already in place magazine, and racking the slide. I immediately heard “OH S**t! and carefully rounded corner to see the last of two teens going back through the broken window. And yes, they left a fair amount of blood from their hurried exit.
The MD Police actually gave me a hard time about the weapon rather than doing much more than looking at the blood trail.
A few people have mentioned it here, but I’ll underscore it:
If your fear is home invasion while you sleep, then a pump shotgun is the best choice. The sound of a shotgun being pumped is unmistakable, and will make any sane person think twice.
In a home-defense scenario, a shotgun has serious advantages over a handgun for other reasons: it shoots a pattern of shot, so you are much, much less likely to miss. If you are in the kind of situation that you actually need to pull a trigger, God forbid, you don’t want to miss. If you shoot a light shot, like #9, it’s more than enough to stop whomever it hits (at those ranges), but less likely to penetrate walls with lethal force. Bullets, even fired from a handgun, will go through interior walls with plenty of lethal momentum left over.
From close range, btw, any weapon will plow through a plaster-board wall, an interior door, etc. See my last comments…
It’s a lot easier to get a shotgun permit than a handgun permit. Most states don’t require anything for a long-gun (shotgun), or perhaps just an FID.
The gun should be secured in a safe at all times that you’re not there. I prefer a key-safe, with me having the only key on my key ring – and I keep my key ring with me at all times. Take the gun out of the safe when you go to sleep, and put it back in the morning when you get up.
I strongly recommend that you keep the safety on, and don’t keep a round chambered. Pumping a shotgun and removing the safety takes a fraction of a second and, again, that’s the sound that you want everyone to hear.
One other thing to consider: if you live in an area that is *that* dangerous, why not move? I’m a huge supporter of a person’s right to defend themselves, but only insane people keep themselves and their families in harm’s way.
A gunfight in a house is one of those “avoid at all costs” kind of things. Bullets go through walls and kill people still in bed. Accidents *do* happen where a child is getting up for a glass of water, but you hear “a break in.”
Be prudent, sure, but the #1 rule is to avoid the conflict…
Actually, I think any poster suggesting such a thing is first, quite correct, second is giving a reason beyond that of education and thirdly is not suggesting this as the only safety measure involved. If you have a child that is smart enough and creative enough to be “playing” with your gun and trying to figure out how to get the “slidey” part to move, than you are missing that point of educating them. The real point is that children are extremely intelligent and catch on to things fast. There is no reason to not begin education as soon as possible.
If people have children that are too inquisitive and just can not be trusted with this, then, as I suggested before, get a dog and forget the guns thing. Guns are too serious and only for responsible people.
Anyone who would recommend that one sleep with their handgun does not have the mental capacity to own a firearm. I cannot think of a more irresponsible method of weapon storage.
I store my Glock 17 loaded in one of these
http://www.americasafes.com/Page2.html
Quick easy to use and in the times I have needed to access my weapon I never had an issue with opening.
I may take some grief for this but: Having a CCW has made me the ultimate pacifist. Please remember, in a given situation, (war excluded) if possible, retreat. I don’t want anyone to second guess themselves at the moment you need to discharge a firearm in self-defense, any hesitation may prove fatal and the lives of your family and yourself are paramount but remember the ramifications of such a drastic action. Even if the DA finds the shooting justified, and there is no guarantee this will be the case if the DA has a political agenda, and no charges are filed, the family (assuming that he is deceased) of the bad guy can sue in civil court and if a majority of the jury is anti-gun you may have to pay a large sum of money. Also, for those of us with a conscience, and I know the regular readers of Michelle are good people, the impact of taking a life, even of a bad guy, will play on us the rest of our life. I pray that none of us ever finds ourselves in this situation.
SEMPER FIDELIS
supersean, I don’t have experience with that safe, but I do have experience with biometric devices that won’t read my prints later after accepting them in the first place. Don’t know I’d put that much faith in it…I think mechanical for me.
#159
No, and that’s crazy talk. They are flat out wrong. Assuming otherwise is a good way to end up with a DEAD KID.
I never disagreed that education and other precautions are necessary, I just wanted to make sure that no-one reading this thread would get the impression that if they just got a handgun with a stiff return spring, then they can leave their firearm otherwise unprotected and care-free.
The entire point is that kids are NOT trained with a weapon from birth, and as such if they get a hold of one, they’re not going to intuitively actuate and handle it as you would being a familiarized operator.
Just because they’re not strong enough to arm the weapon in the same manner you would, doesn’t mean there aren’t other less conventional methods. Let’s face it, when a kid plays with something, he’s not doing so with a single thought towards “efficient motion” or you’d never have a peanut butter and jelly sandwich in a VCR.
When I was little, my brother had a lever action airgun rifle (just noise, no ammo) that I wasn’t strong enough to work with one hand while holding it. I was two young to have any conception of what a gun was or did, but I still remember setting it accross 2 dressers and hanging from the lever to make the neat toy click and bang.
“My weapon is stiff” means exactly NOTHING when it comes to gun safety, so it isn’t really a helpful comment on this thread.
Hmmm…I seemed to miss that the first rule is to know HOW to use a weapon. Many people are killed by their own weapon. I am not trying to sound like the ‘tough guy’ but having been a cop I learned that you really have to be able to end a life without hesitation. It’s not an easy thing to have your gun against someones head with pressure on the trigger (that happened when I was in CONTROL) vs. scrambling around scared out of your mind and trying to get your hands on something your may not have thought all the way through. Just food for thought I hope….
As one of those who suggested a strong spring, I would like to point out that it was only one defense in a layered protection plan. I don’t think that any of us advocates only one method to the exclusion of all others. A stiff spring might give enough time if the weapon is found for an adult to come by while the child is figuring out how to play with the gun.
I spent the summer on my uncles farm. Although both of my parents were anti-gun my uncle wasn’t.
A 12gage shotgun rested next to the door leaning against the frame. We NEVER touched it and NEVER even thought about touching it.
Iys the No Touch rule…