Saturday gun bleg: storing a handgun safely in the house around kids (UPDATED)
[***This post is written by regular guest-blogger See-Dubya, not by Michelle. Send your suggestions to goseedubgo-at-gmail.com.***]
Let’s say, hypothetically, that a blogger was going to be moving in the not-too-distant future to a state and city with somewhat sane gun laws.
And let’s say, hypothetically, that that blogger wanted to be able to keep a medium-to-large defensive handgun ready-to-go in the master bedroom where it would be secure during the day but quickly accessible in the event of trouble.
But let’s say, hypothetically, that this blogger also has small kids who are good kids, extremely bright and curious, but still too young to be trusted around guns. And by “extremely bright” I mean rhesus-monkey-after-tourist-candy-bars clever; capable of (e.g.) improvising stepladders and using keys on padlocks.
Obviously, the best safety mechanism is educating kids about guns. That will happen, but they’re not ready for that yet and even if they were, secure storage would still be an issue. Even if they were very well-trained, this blogger still wouldn’t want them to be able to get hold of a gun if he’s not there with them.
So, merely concealing a gun is right out (even without the kids, this hypothetical blogger wouldn’t want to leave a gun loose in the house where an intruder could run across it and just pick it up.)
I’ve looked into a couple of things on this. One is those electronic combination boxes or thumbprint-ID boxes, which is effectively a bedside mini-safe. Seems a reasonable compromise, but my friend Old Shootin’ Buddy asked someone very knowledgeable about those, and got this reply:
I don’t trust those cheap electronic locks. I’ve seen too many fail. We’ve opened a few of that type of bedside lock box with a hammer and a prybar because the lock has failed completely. If you have to lock it, lock it simply and mechanically.
I’m inclined to agree with that–one more electronic gizmo is one more thing that could fail when you really need it. But “simply and mechanically” offers trouble as well. If you use a box like a tool storage box with a key-locking mechanism, and keep the key on the same ring as one’s car keys, then you have to keep your car keys with you at all times. Can’t hang your keys on a hook in the front hall, can’t leave it on the nightstand while you shower, and if it falls off your key ring or you lose your keys, you’re temporarily disarmed until you can get to your duplicate.
There might not be a good solution to this problem. Since this blogger is moving to a fairly safe area (not perfect, but not bad) it might be that the best answer–the most rational balancing of all the reasonable risks– is just to throw the gun into a stand-up gun safe in the basement until the kids get old enough to try a more accessible arrangement, and rely on stout locks, an alarm system, the local PD, and a Louisville Slugger until then.
Unless there’s a better way that this hypothetical blogger hasn’t thought of yet. And if anyone could think of that, I’ll bet Michelle’s readers could. I’ll also bet that there’s a lot of readers who would be interested in a good answer to this problem.
I can understand not wanting to share–even with an internet alias–details of your home protection setup on a well-trafficked blog, so feel free to tip my g-mail account (goseedubgo). I may update this post with some good suggestions, though obviously I’m not going to tell you what that hypothetical blogger hypothetically chooses to do!
Last detail: one of the arguments for slower access–for example, keeping a semi-auto unloaded or without a round chambered–which I used to run into back when I read gun magazines was that “you didn’t want to get up all groggy with a loaded gun in your hand”. I’ve never bought into that. If I wake up with a sense that something’s wrong, adrenaline clears the sleep out of my head instantly. If glass cracks, every second counts.
UPDATES: Great comments and e-mails, thank you all very much, and keep them coming. Here are two themes that emerge:
SAFES– several people recommended the electronic or biometric safes despite what I’d heard from OSB’s expert. On the other hand, two people confirmed that they’d had trouble with one.
On the other hand, there are completely mechanical safes with what is called a “simplex” lock that you can bolt to furniture or to the floor from the inside. (Here’s a knowledgeable endorsement; many different brands were recommended.) These aren’t perfect–you have to train yourself to do it in the dark– but no one had ever failed to get one open, so that looks like the best option. I realize it won’t stop a determined burglar who has an unlimited amount of time, but hopefully a dog and an alarm can interrupt his leisure. If the hypothetical blogger goes out of town its contents into a more secure location. It will stop a curious babysitter or an undisciplined sleepover friend, which is one of my main concerns. Until he gets that safe working, the hypothetical blogger might consider a cable lock looped through the action of the revolver he may or may not yet own, so the cylinder can’t close, and then looped around some heavy furniture. A key can unlock the cable at night.
But that’s got to be temporary. There were some recommendations that I either wear my gun at all times or keep it locked with a key lock and keep the key around my neck. Sorry, but that will just be too hard to explain at the next cuddle party!
EDUCATION– Amazing how many people had had some extremely serious, memorable initiation by a parent that made a lasting impression on them. Some people had a demonstration of what a gun would do to a melon, some just received an especially frank and serious lecture or warning. This happened to me as well and while I’m interested in the NRA’s Eddie Eagle program, I know this sort of thing works and though I’m not sure exactly what I’ll do or say, I intend to try it when my kids get curious about guns.
In my case, I was four and had asked to see my dad’s gun. I remember him quite clearly sitting in his office, holding a giant Peacemaker Colt, and sighting carefully down the loading gate as he turned the cylinder several times. More than just the six it would hold–he must have turned it all the way through four or five times. CLACK CLACK CLACK CLACK. I remember distinctly the neat CLACK each turn made, and the seriousness with which my laid-back dad took the process impressed me with the importance of what was going on, even more than the lecture about not pointing this at anyone, etc. that followed.
I suppose like a lot of matters in raising kids, a proper parental example is far more powerful than we realize.
As for what to put in the safe, that’s a subject for another weekend…
OH YEAH–I told this guy I’d plug his book: Home Invasion Prevention. Looks interesting!
______________
{Post by See-Dubya}
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This is a tough one. I don’t have my son at home anymore he’s in the Air Force. I have a 38/375 S&W revolver with 3 inch barrel in a gun safe that is bolted to the back of my dresser. The dresser is within arm’s reach and I wear the key around my neck with my Medic Alert medallion. I’m not sure you want to do that, but , thought I’d offer a method.
Keep the drawer next to your bed locked and have the key on a chain around your neck or arm. Unlock at night. Have only one key. Tell your kids if they go in there, they will be punished severly. You might even want to lock your bedroom.
Teaching the kids to respect your guns is the single most important step. A gun that can’t be gotten to quickly is of no value at all. The children should be made a part of the practice of keeping guns. Involve them as observors in practice shooting, gun maintenance and use the NRA resources for dealing with gun safety around kids.
1. Nothing beats good parenting.
2. Accidents can always happen, so learn to manage risk.
3. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
I just keep a 4-shot clip handy in the drawer for my Mossberg 20 Gauge. I keep the clip loaded as shot/slug/shot/slug combo. I hope I never have to use it. I still think the best home defense is a dog.
See-dubs I know you’re a very competent writer, but what’s a bleg?
Btw I have no kids, but if I did: education, education, education. Remember many years ago high schools had shooting teams. It wouldn’t hurt to bring them back.
We were just talking about this around our house. We thought the sound of shells being loaded into a shotgun would probably be sufficient to scare off a garden-variety addict/thief, but for more serious confrontations, dunno.
Wouldn’t the NRA have people to help with this?
A “bleg” is “begging” for something on a blog–in this case, advice.
Oops, I meant, blank shells being loaded, so no danger to small children in the house.
A “safe area” is not immune to home invasions, as many recent news stories prove.
And having a gun locked in some safe downstairs makes it useless for protection (unless the burglars call first). Thirty seconds is an eternity in a home invasion, let alone the police response time of 10 minutes.
All gun owners I know stress safety measure you mentioned; good lighting, good locks/doors, owning a dog, alarm system and a CELL PHONE in the bedroom. But if you want to add the gun to that plan, it either needs to be on you, or in a rapidly accessible “gun vault” in the nightstand.
There are pistol safes that have push-button combination locks and do not require electricity to work. An internet search on “pistol safe mechanical lock” should plenty of results to peruse. The electronic safes with push-button combination locks usually come with a backup key, so it can still be opened if the electric portion fails.
Whichever type of device the hypothetical blogger (whom I’ll now call “HB” for short), HB should practice regularly getting the thing open - particuarly if it’s a pushbutton lock model. HB needs to make sure that entering the combination can be done purely on muscle memory. HB doesn’t want to be fumbling around in the dark, struggling to remember what the combination was while someone is breaking into the house.
Also, some of the electronic models have a temporary lockout feature, where one must wait a few seconds after entering the wrond code to make another attempt. While designed to prevent unauthorized access, it can also be a problem if one is trying to retrieve the firearm in a hurry and messes up the combination the first time around.
I hope that helps HB, and anybody else who is seeking to lawfully and safely obtain and secure a firearm for home defense. Make sure that you are aware of all applicable state laws that apply to your ownership and storage of firearms, which can vary from state to state.
“wrong code” not “wrond code”
Just call me Stumblefingers…
If you need to worry about your children smashing in a gun safe, having loaded weapons in your home is a necessity. If you are concerned about burglars, that’s a different matter.
So your risk management depends on who you are protecting, your family, or the weapon.
I’d opt for the family, and pick up a simple gun safe, like this one.
You can protect against theft by putting the gun safe in a spot that you can get to, but takes a lot of work to open. Maybe put an alarm on it (or the house, in general). Most thieves are going to take what’s easy to steal; if they have to work at it, or have a good chance of being detected, will go for an easier target.
Order the Eddie Eagle materials from the NRA. They will send you a copy at no charge. A weapon that you cannot access is useless.
Just last month as I was about to enter my house through the garage a car screeched to a halt at the end of the driveway. Four men jumped out and started toward me. I ran inside and grabbed my .45 and headed back out. When I entered the garage and the four saw I was armed they quickly ran to their car and sped away.
Get your CCW and keep a weapon on your person where the kids do not have access to it. Other than that I agree with the above, a lock box with the key around your neck. Also consider other means. One can do some serious damage with a baseball bat or short sword. Or a combination attack, pepper spray followed up with a bat or knife. Of course I live in a castle doctrine state so I have no duty to retreat. All I have to say is I felt my life was in danger. Depending on the state your mileage may vary.
Well I guess someone could lock the room & not the weapon… pros & cons with that too.
If the bad guy isn’t scared off, or has an accomplice that figures out you’re, er, shooting blanks, then you’re up a creek. Also, blank rounds can cause injury at close range and should not be considered “safe” around children just because they do not fire a projectile.
I like this method.
at the ready
I agree with Azygos: get the Eddie Eagle materials and make them household doctrine.
Ahhh, a lot of “blanks” have to have something to hold in the powder, which becomes a projectile when fired. At close range that can be dangerous–just ask Brandon Lee.
OK, Castor Troy.
The concept that “the sound of a round being racked into a 12 gauge pump will clear the house” is an urban legend. A lot of these burglars a 1)stupid, 2)fearless and 3)drug-crazed. I would never count on that sound alone to prevent a burglary. And if the time came, you’d feel awfully naked armed only with “sound”.
“Recovering Liberal” stated that such a shotgun, loaded with blanks would be safer. Not true. The safest situation for law abiding citizens is to have an easily accessible, *loaded* gun, and know how to use it.
The idea of keeping guns and ammo locked separately to prevent harm is a liberal fallacy, and there are epidemiological studies to prove it.
I agree with getting a concealed weapons permit, but that should not be necessary in one’s home (DC and Chicago aside).
see-dubya said:
Ah, thanks. A clever portmanteau…
See-dubs just get this for home defense then the kids will find it too cumbersome to mess around with
(A real dry joke here).
If you are that worried about your kids fooling around with your weapons, lock them away (the guns, not the kids) and use something else for defense. One of those monitored alarm services seems like a good idea, but I don’t know much about their cost. Of course, that would be for support after the fact, or in case of fire or break-ins while you were away.
It sounds like a pistol in your house would be more dangerous than the threat of assault.
My (problem behavior sometimes) young kids have never violated the “don’t ever touch daddy’s guns, and if you see one come tell me” rules.
They see the game that comes home with me after a hunt, and know the effects of gunshot wounds.
We use a simple, old fashioned gun case with a glass door and a basic lock. Those are unloaded, unless my readiness level goes up. The handgun is loaded and in a basic locked safe for handguns.
The system works very well, and these kids have done well with the common sense systems for gun safety.
Agreed, but bad things don’t happen only in ones home
See-Dubya,
If you choose to keep a gun for defense, and realize your kids (or their friends are not up to snuff with the resposibility of gun ownership), you have 2 choices:
1. Get one of those gun safes which I personally have never used…if you want to get customer feed back on people who have used them for 1-2 years-go to “Midway USA” online which is a shooting supply house and check the reviews written by customers for their products that they sell-I’ve read several already on your type of gun safe.
2. This is what I’ve personally done with respect to your issue…I’ve kept a loaded gun strapped to my hip and walked, and slept EVERYWHERE with it. I know where it is at and I know NO ONE (but me) will be able to get at it accidentally. You MUST take it with you even if you go to the bathroom to ensure your security and that of your family and house guests.
a. I’ve also taken the FBI/Lindell style courses (Judo) with respect to handgun retention and disarmament techniques for over 10 years to cover my bases with hand-to hand what ifs.
Then after you’ve chosen either option 1 or option 2, get your children through a reccommended gun safety class.
I live in Washington state, See Dubya, if you want to personally contact me, let me know on this blog and how you want to make contact so its safe for both of us.
I got one of these Brinks Anti-Theft Drawer Safe, Model 5074 from WalMart at least 8 years ago. It is battery-powered with 2 AA cells, but they lasted at least 6 years (they just power a momentary relay and two lights which are on very briefly). Replace the batteries every 2 or 3 years to be safe. It also has a key, in case the buttons fail or you forget the code. I lost my backup key and broke the cover replacing the batteries. (It was so long since I had opened the battery case, I forgot how it worked!) The case cover and replacement keys were sent at no charge, 6 years after I bought it! American Customer Service still exists!
The most reliable solution is to be in a concealed-carry state and just have it with you at all times. That is admittedly easier for a male who can clip it on his belt, and is expected to have some excess belly-fat inside his jacket.
Many comments here show a distinct lack of basic and common American knowledge. Do you people ever watch John Wayne movies? If you did, you’d know that pretending and real guns don’t go together.
Never load a gun you’re not willing and able to use. Prepare for the worst case scenario (I think a home invasion - someone just had one in the city yesterday) and do what you must/can to protect your home.
If you’re not prepared to do that, you are not meeting your obligations as a man/home owner/citizen. That means you are subject to the capabilities of your local law enforcement, and to the vagaries of luck.
We kept our handgun loaded in our nightstand with the chamber empty. Our rifles were kept on a closet shelf, unloaded with ammunition in a separate box right by them.
Being raised in the country, our girls learned gun safety at an early age. They were shooting our 22 with their Dad by the age of 7. They took gun safety classes with the local 4-H. Education is important.
Kids have to know this is a dangerous weapon, not a toy. They have to know how serious the gun is and why it is where it is. We thought it would be safer for them to be aware and informed than to have them accidently find out about it and have a tragedy happen.
Dad had the super serious talk with them. Mom reinforced it. They knew there were some places and some things they weren’t to have access to no matter how curious or nosey they were. It worked for us.
Several good suggestions already.
I also recall reading about “personalized locks” for weapons. These are permenantly installed on the weapon and only work when the user is wearing a ring, bracelet, etc. that “opens” the lock when in close proximity. I recall they were somewhat expensive, but might merit looking into.
Sorry I can’t recal where I saw the article, but I’m sure someone here has heard of this and can provide more info.
1. Education, of course, but you know that.
2. I generally subscribe to the philosophy of securing my weapon when it is not under my direct control/within immediate reach.
3. Like BrianNY says, manage risk. True, you never know when you might be attacked, but if I spent my energy making sure I sat with my back to the wall and face toward the door of restaurants, etc., I’d go nuts.
So… I’m not saying this is exactly how I have things set up here, but:
You might think about carrying your sidearm on your person. If it’s too much of nuisance to carry around, then what you’re really probably thinking is that you don’t actually need it immediately accessible. Just a guess.
If it is too much of a nuisance to carry it around, then you might think about locking it in a 3-digit (large digits) combination case. This seems to provide balance between quick access and not worrying about the kids getting their hands on the gun while you’re out grilling dinner (mmmmmm…). Of course this won’t stop a determined criminal, and they could just walk off with the entire case, but if that’s a concern it means you’re probably nowhere nearby and should probably have the gun in a safe.
If a shotgun is someone’s choice for home defense, they might think about keeping it without a shell in the chamber. Seriously, if they don’t have time to pump the action, they probably don’t even have time to reach for the shotgun in the first place.
So that’s my 2¢.
Cdubya, RE:post #26
My advice on option 2 was with respect to keeping the gun concealed or unconcealed as the law or social situation will permit, with a round in the chamber as though you expect imminentcombat…
Your experience/comfort level at this time may or may not allow you to do option 2, by the way.
As for monitored alarm systems….
We just got one. When you walk in the house there’s a built-in delay (?30 seconds) which allows you to disarm it with your secret code. So after installation, we get to try out the system. I walk in the door, don’t disable the system, and wait the 30 seconds for the alarm to start. I immediately realized that THIS IS AN ETERNITY during a home invasion. And I thought to myself that only then will the alarm company be notified, who will then in turn notify police, who will take their 10 minutes to respond…. The crooks would be long gone.
I quickly realized those systems are mainly good for when you’re out of town.
sorry imminent combat
Funny you should mention this — I just got this”
GunBlok COMBINATION trigger lock last week.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=GunBlok+Combination+Trigger+Lock&x=0&y=0
Not sure how well it works yet. No reviews on Amazon. I thought it was worth a try.
DKK
You definitely have a quandary. Although a PITA, locking it up in the safe during the day and then taking it out at night (and putting it in the nightstand) may be an option. Also you could use one of these: http://www.masterlocks.com/item.asp?CID=319
and just keep it in the nightstand, locked, all the time. But then you go back the point that a crook could just take the gun during a burglary.
Personally, I’d rather have the gun semi-accessible, so I’d go with the latter option of the locked gun in the nightstand. I don’t have chitlins, so I don’t have to worry about keeping it locked. You could also try one of these:
http://www.defensedevices.com/booksafe.html
I use one, they’re great (but not secure).
I had a loaded gun on a hook high in the closet, where prying eyes couldn’t see and small people couldn’t reach. It worked for me. Only needed it twice.
All other guns went into a gun safe …
If you want a home defense weapon then get a shotgun. all you have to do is point it in the direction of the bad guy. a pistol you have to aim
One key is to take the Mystery away from guns… don’t have it hidden, tell the kids where it is and not to mess with it. Also tell them NOT to tell freinds, be up front about the rules and VERY clear.
I also took the kids out when they were three, grabbed the 12 gauge and one of the toy guns around the house. Went out to the country with 3 watermelons… and “shot” a watermelon with the toy gun… showing nothing happend… then unloaded the 12 gauage… no hearing protection for the kids…. pointed out the differenc in effect between real and toys.
As to a Gun safe, I have 2 mechanical lock handgun safes… one attatched to my bed, ones in the car. 45 (unloaded) and clips go in there.
Strong parenting plus supervision. .45 auto in my dest drawer, 12 guage in the bedroom, (tend to be groggy when aroused in the middle of the night, need oo buck to hit a target when sleepy). My child is never left alone in the house. Period. When we leave the house, she leaves the house. We have safety training for her and the wife.
Timely advice - thanks. I’m getting my very own for Mother’s Day
I’m more concerned about leaving one for a thief to find when I’m either out of town (TSA frowns) or just leaving long enough to pick up a loaf of bread. Not real interested in CC, so it’ll simply be for home invasion.
If you have a beach front house get some of these.
Home protection.
See-dubbs:
Here’s a website that has security products.
Indeed, I don’t have children yet. But when I do I plan to get one of those types of gun safes. (Or if I have the mula to throw out there a much more expensive, electronic safe that is heavy and mounted/anchored into the house and would take a forklift or crane to rip free and a demolitions expert to force open without the proper codes and/or fingerprints.)
Get your kids and yourself gun safety and home defense training first. Demonstrate to the kids the damage the gun can do. Then have some means of securing the gun, such as a safe. Put the gun where you can access it and the kids don’t know where it is when you go to bed. Put the gun back in the safe when you get up.
I started teaching my son gun safety when he was 3. By the time he was 6 he could recite Cooper’s four rules of gun safety and explain them. He learned very early that touching a gun without permission carried a severe penalty.
I grew up around guns and have never had any fear of them. When my son was small I had about a dozen guns and no way to lock them up. All but 2 were kept unloaded. Because I trained him the way my father trained my brothers and sisters and me (in a house with at least a couple of hundred guns with ammo at any given time, none of which were locked up or hidden, and several were kept loaded-we knew which ones) I never worried that my son would get into them. He was allowed to handle my guns often enough that his curiosity was satisfied. Guns were never mysterious and scary to him.
pakurilecz,
At home defense range a shotgun is like a rifle. The shot doen’t spread immediately upon leaving the barrel. At home defense range it is essentially a solid mass. The shotgun must be aimed. Don’t get your firearm knowlege from movies.
I’ve no experience of keeping a gun round the house, so take this with an appropriate quantity of salt. But my initial gut guess was a key lockable safe with a break glass key holder holding the key nearby (with presumably another key hidden away on your person for maintenance, etc). If it’s quick for getting out of a burning building, it’s probably close to quick enough for intruders. And I can’t see your kids actually breaking into the container to get at the key from your description of them.
Just a guess. Good luck with finding a solution!
Here’s a link to a site that makes a gun safe with either a 4-button mechanical lock or biometric lock. May serve your needs.
http://www.gunvault.com/home/
I took roughly the same you did Romeo, except I used a 2×4, 4×4 and a piece of steel plate for my examples. My pistols (.44 and .45) easily splintered the 2×4 and a shotgun loaded up with my home made garrot rounds neatly cut slices off the 4×4 and left no doubt about the serious effects of playing with them. For home defense? I would recommend a 12 guage with number 7 shot. It would do the necessary work up close but will stop when it hits a wall. As far as the pistols? I have to agree with the full-contact theory here. I never even went to the bathroom without mine.
Should be same approach … 0400 here, just woke up and no coffee yet. And the steel plate was used at 500 meters for a demonstration of the 06 and my .323 (8mm) so the distance was safe and holes drilled through solid steel made quite a lasting impression … no pun intended
We raised 6 kids safely with firearms in our home, including at least one unsecured and ready for immediate use at all times.
1. +1 on Eddie Eagle
2. Remove the “mystique”. Take them shooting often enough they remain aware of the damage a firearm can do. Guns are not toys. We never, ever, bought “toy” guns.
3. Early on I modified my bedside .45 with a heavy slide return spring so that only my wife and I had the strength to put a round in the chamber. By the time the kids were big enough to work the action, they were already competing in the local shooting club.
Just how accurate is holding a weapon from the hip to fire? I reemember seeing Rambo and others holding an M60 and firing from the hip. You can always count on the boring adventure movies of a squad of commandos and everybody is holding and firing from the hip.
My Dad was in the military and I remember watching him on the range shooting a .45 when I was 4 years old. I learned how to behave on the range just like the adults and I got to pick up the brass. So unless the kids are under 4-5 years old it’s not too early to start training them right. If you don’t start young they will get all their gun information from watching TV and Hollywood - not something to be desired.
You’ve got a lot of good suggestions here. I don’t think hiding the gun is a good solution if the children are inquisitive. The gun does need to be in a place that is not easily accessible to them, and it needs to be explained that under no circumstances are they ever to get it unless it’s an emergency. The idea that young children can’t handle a gun responsibly is a myth - proper training is the key, to gain familiarity and respect.
Most children can be taught from the start that every weapon is ALWAYS to be treated as if it’s loaded, and to NEVER point it at anyone or anything - unless they’re going to shoot it. They can be taught to help with disassembly and cleaning, and see from the adults what responsible gun ownership consists of by example. And every once in a while when they’re a bit older let them squeeze off a few well-supervised rounds - the reality of what a gun is and what it can do is best to be learned purposefully at an early age, rather than too late by accident in a needless tragedy.
Personally, of course, my chosen weapon is the longbow - I am as accurate or more accurate with it out to 30 yards than many pistol shooters, being able to acheive 4″-5″ groups pretty regularly with an aimed shot every 3 seconds. But I do have some problems trying to carry concealed…
My husband and I use a handgun safe we bought from Cabela’s that uses your thumb print. Also, if you plan on getting a carry permit I would suggest a special handbag that is specifically for carrying. I pull one tab and my .38 is ready.
I don’t live in a high crime area but the Sam’s Club I go to isn’t in a very nice area so I make sure I can protect myself and my kids. Have you all seen the story about the guy targeting Mom’s with their kids at malls in FL? Absolutely terrifying.
I use a pistol safe manufactured by Cannon, which employs a pushbutton cipherlock mechanism which is completely mechanical. It fits under the bed, and the five buttons and one knob required to open it can be negotiated in a pitch black room, completely by feel. The .357 magnum contained inside is always kept loaded and ready to go.
Get a rusty chainsaw, the kids won’t be able to pull the starter, and you’ll reduce any intruder to Dahmer’s Choice Cuts in seconds.
That or get rid of your kids, and keep your precious guns.
Nah I’m just kidding, you ought to ask Du Toit or some of the other gunbloggers for their input, they’ll probably have good advice.
mazeman, we just got a home security system too. We also have the 30 second delay so you can turn it off when you come home. However, our system has an “instant” button that you push after you turn the system on and that deletes the 30 second delay and the alarm goes off immediately when the doors are opened. We use the instant button when we got to bed or any time we want to be secure and are inside the house. I would hope that your system has this option too.
I probably will take a lot of heat for this and yes, I understand that especially in today’s world it is going to considered absolutely ‘criminal’. Nevertheless, here goes. I’ve always had guns and been around them. Never crossed my mind to get rid of them once children started arriving in my life. My father had them, always, and I simply knew never to touch and assumed my kids would learn the same. Bear in mind that my kids were born in ‘76 & ‘78 so this time is way before Columbine sort of stuff. When my daughter was three I took her out into the pasture along with my 12 ga, had her stand right next to me and fired off a few rounds. Scared the living shit of her!…..as I wanted it to do. Immediately offered to let her touch or hold it, while I was right there, and no way did she want to do so. Mission done. Went through the same routine when my son turned 3. In both cases, once back inside and tears had stopped I carefully explained to them in my best 3 year old logic that they were never to touch Mommy’s guns, and why. Repeated this lesson each year till they were 8 or 9. As they got a bit older I added some clay pigeons to the mix as a ‘visual’ to what a gun would do. My shotgun sat leaning against the wall at the head of my bed, behind the nightstand, always. I had a single shelf mounted above the nightstand at my head’s height that held a 9mm…which they also had ‘lessons’ on along the way. The shotgun was loaded but not chambered, the handgun was. (I too am one of those who thinks there is no mistaking the sound on a shotgun being ‘pumped’ and that alone can be a huge deterrant!) I will bet my life to this day they never touched either of them, ever. And I know if you asked them they would swear I was right. At 12 they both had to fire both, like it or not (neither did) and practice till I felt they were 12 year old proficient. My daughter went on to enlist in the Army later, fired Expert both rifle and handgun and is now the most antigun person ever. Sheesh. My son does not have one personally but does not share his sisters distaste. The reason I told this? They were TAUGHT by me at a very early age and onward about guns and what they could and could not do around them. Sorry, but to me, to have a weapon ‘locked up’ defeats the purpose. You may think I was simply lucky, well then so was my Father and the many many folks I know who likewise grew up around them and taught the same lessons to their own children. Childhood instuction about gun safety is the key to safe gun ownership in the home……at least in my experience and INMO.
ram #50
Same idea. My husband has a 9mil. The top slide is very tight. We’ve kept it unchambered and on safety since before our kids were born. When they were strong enough to pull it back, he took them target shooting to eliminate their curiousity. CURIOSTIY is the key. Shooting a watermelon w/ you uncle’s shotgun, infront of them, helps them understand the danger!
Finally, we have storm doors/windows and a German Shephard.
A good biometric safe is the best choice with kids. They rarely ever encounter problems, & nobody but you (or whoever else you program) is getting in it.
Anygun that is compromised for readyness for safety reasons (trigger lock,thumb saftey ect.) can end up being useless in an emergency. Tactical training Tests have shown that an assailant with a bladed weapon can close on a person with a holstered weapon before they can draw it from a distance of only 15 feet.
The gun needs to be quickly accessible as you can see from that example..
I just took a gun safety course with a military trainer here in TN. That’s where I learned most of this. I keep mine ready, but no kids here.
Hope it helps! ~ Dan Lee
Longbow, I was taught similarly, only my Dad drilled into me…..never raise or point a weapon unless you intend to shoot it, never fire it unless you are aiming to kill. Period! I taught the same to mine. Thinking to try and ‘bluff’ or merely somehow disable with a leg or shoulder shot will only serve to get you killed yourself in many situations. If you feel the need to fire…..MEAN IT!
What you need is a Federal Govt. Blue Ribbon panel to discuss the issue, and get back to you with a recommendation.
Barney (Fife) Frank will chair the panel with one of the Kennedy’s as his co-chair. (Pick any Kennedy that isn’t high/stoned/or drunk…if you can find one).
Then pump in several hundreds of thousands of dollars in research cost, along with late night working dinners and you’ll get some answers.
Or you could ask Jesus Obama, he knows everything.
A lot of what you need to do will depend on your kids. Coming from a military family of hunters, we grew up with firearms in the home. While there were many rules, there was one inviolate rule-don’t touch Dad’s guns. Period. No trial, no appeal, no clemency. And not one of the five of us ever did.
With very small children, a high out of reach spot works for a time. When they reach the rhesus monkey stage, that won’t work unless they are thoroughly educated and respectful. Even then, while your kids may obey the rules, their friends may not. It is not necessarily your own you have to worry about.
Other kids raised with little respect for rules and other people’s property can change your life in a heartbeat.
A very good friend of mine lost a son that way. His son was staying over at a friend’s house with some other boys (I think they were around 9). One kid finds a hunting rifle under a bed and comes out “playing”. He aims at my friend’s son and pulls the trigger. A .30-06 round killed him instantly. Lots of lives ruined that day. My friend’s son was his pride and joy, and I cannot even to begin to understand his loss and pain.
By all means educate your children, but be aware that they may develop friendships with other children who may have zero sense and zero respect for your home.
With children around, you need to have the ammunition stored separately from the weapons at all times the firearms are not within your direct control. A clip for a semi automatic pistol slips in in an instant, and a speedloader for a revolver takes about a second to load into the pistol.
Whatever lock system you use, make sure that it is reliable and that you are comfortable with its use. I am no fan of trigger locks, but they are cheap and effective. A plam print pistol safe is a good tool (and would permit the storage of a loaded weapon), but the reliable ones are not cheap, and like any electronic device they can fail.
Another word about safes and lockers - they trap moisture. Unless you keep a fresh dessicant or use a humidity control like a goldenrod, any storage can cause rust. And rust will disable a firearm in a heartbeat.
It is true that any safety system is going to cost valuable time. But children (or their friends) leave you little choice. You therefore need to consider security “layers” that buy time. A loud alarm system is a great deterrent for the casual criminal or non violent offender. The alarm alone is usually, (USUALLY) enough to drive them off. And thieves will tend to take the easy route, targeting homes without alarms.
For violent offenders, those under the influence of drugs, or determined criminals who think you have something of high value to take the risk, the alarm is not going to stop them. They know all about response times and will be in and out before the police arrive. Which leads me to strongly recommend a large dog.
As an MP in the Army, I have seen time and time again where an unarmed idiot will go toe to toe with a heavily armed police officer without a second thought. It never seems to occur to them that having their head split open or being shot is a possibility. But bring in ONE dog, and the situation changes in a heartbeat. There seems to be some primal fear of being bitten by a dog that is more of a deterrent than being shot. I am sure some civilian law enforcement officers can weigh in here. Get shot, and you can die. Get bitten by a dog, and you’ll bleed a little. But the dog really shifts the balance.
In the home, a large dog will buy you the time you need to confront an intruder. And most dogs I have owned will protect their families to their last breath. I am not talking about something that fits in a shoebox, but a breed of over 60 pounds (and the bigger the better). Man’s best friend is indeed man’s best friend when it comes to protecting the homestead. Your kids will think you’re the world’s best dad for getting them that big puppy.
And see-dubya, if you are worried about having a dog, I can help you out with making it appear like you have a large dog about. I have an English Mastiff that is quite prolific in her twice daily constitutions. I am sure we can arrange to FedX say, a week’s worth, to spread around your yard. You’ll need to pick up the shipping though, and a week’s worth just may put us into the “freight” category. Come to think of it, it just may be cheaper for you to buy your own….
Sorry for the long response. But it is a very good and very serious issue, which I believe required a thorough reply.
Good luck!
P.S.
The reason I don’t recommend the mechanical locks is that while a person can put a house key in their door under normal circumstances, they usually find that they can’t do it under stress. If you don’t believe it, I dare you to have someone sick a pit bull on you from 35 feet & try to open the door with your keys..
Also they tend to forget the combinations to safes when someone is bearing down on them. It’s a proven fact.
The machine won’t forget your finger print, & they’ve gotten much more reliable these days.
Truth be told, your biggest worry is actually hitting the perp, & not someone else..
It’s harder than some people think! Especially when frightened..
~Dan Lee
I’d train my son not to touch the gun, but I can’t do that without “a village” helping me. Also are there any government programs that I can apply to for a free gun, babysitter, ammo and safe? I believe it’s the governments job to defend me in my house, so I’m looking for a handout. Lgm? Rusty? Anyone know where the local GUN PANTRIES are?
Strong agreement that it’s a parent’s responsibility to teach children thoroughly the Right Way and the You’ll Be Dead way. It’s a character issue all the way around no matter how you slice. Safe guns are a matter of correct parenting in all other respects first. Safe gun storage around the house is a meaningless phrase unless the child has been properly reared to begin with. If you have any doubts that you cannot or have not instilled in your child the right discipline, understanding and respect … you’d do better to learnhand to hand combat and leave guns alone. Guns are tools, and must be respected. Neither shield a child from the awful consequences nor water down the real joy that comes from competence in handling tough matters well. The rest is window dressing.
With respect to the MYTH that one need not carefully aim a shotgun if possible set up an empty box at the same distance from you as the longest distance in your house and fire buck at the box. You will soon see that the spread is not much even at 20 yards (60 feet).
Bird shot may just make the bad guy angry and probably will not stop the BG. Buck probably will go through inside and even outside walls.
Yes training for children is a good answer but at what age should it start, toddler?, 2 years?, 3 years?
1. Fill in the swimming pool - it is more dangerous.
2. Make sure your kids wear a helmet while riding their bike.
3. Plug your electric outlets.
4. Locks on cabinets.
5. Education for sure.
6. Buy a pistol with a slide that is hard as hell to pull. I have a Kel-Tec .380 (P3AT) that is hard to pull. The wife cannot pull it and I am sure a small child cannot. You can have it handy in case of an intruder. Keep the clip separate but close and hidden. Never chamber a round unless you plan to shoot at a target. The P3AT is a great carry/conceal weapon. If you want more knock-down power, the Kel-Tec P-11 is the same setup for a 9mm Lugar round. Slide is too strong for a small child. My friend has a Ruger with a slide I can pull with two fingers (and probably with my toes if I try). Too easy. Go into shops and test them out.
7. We had 4 teen girls and they knew they were not allowed in our room. The door was always open and they respected that rule because we gave them the same respect.
Good luck. Oh, and thanks for the gun thread!
Lots of irrelevant info here regarding concealed carry, gun safes, shotguns,etc.,etc. A gun is nothing more than a mechanical device designed to fire a round of ammo. Forget the gun and focus on the ammo. Keep a clip/speedloader on your person and an empty gun on the nightstand. Let the kids play with the empty gun until they get bored with it.
First rule of gun safety- every gun is loaded. By letting them play with one, they won’t appreciate the importance of the rule.
WOW RedWingedBlackbird,
What if they are at someones house - feel free to play with a gun they find there?
I think you will find a lot of times a child that discharges a gun is visiting someones house. Not sure of the stats but I know it is common here in S. Florida.
I would never just let a child play with a real gun at home and trust people have put their guns away properly.
Nonsense. If you can’t tell if your gun is loaded or not, give it to someone who can and buy yourself a baseball bat.
Get a HK P7M8.
It takes a few seconds to remove the firing pin, for when it is stored where children may find it, rendering it safe.
When it is not in storage, and back in your control, it only takes a few seconds to replace the firing pin for use.
Would you let a child play with a toy gun? Practically speaking, there is no difference between a toy gun and a “real” gun that is unloaded. Like I said, it is nothing more than a mechanical device.
Yeah, there is practically no difference between a real gun and a fake one. Except the fake one is fake, and the real one is real. Oh, and one is a toy, and one is for shooting people.
Not all children can. What about if they are at someones house? Are you going to trust that your child will not pick it up and discharge it?
S-D, #68 needs to be ignored. That is horrible advice.
All guns are loaded, all electric outlets are hot, all roads have cars speeding.
I think this is just about the worst advice I’ve ever seen.
And a word about biometrics…have any of you actually used biometric devices? I have, and I’d much sooner rely on my ability to operate a lock and key or remember a combination under duress than trust a fingerprint scanner.
Unless your finger is clean and dry, and scanned just so, it’s not going to register. What if (1) your hands are dirty from cleaning, (2) bloody from being attacked, and (3) it’s dark in your room because in your haste to retrieve your gun you didn’t turn on the light in the room so you can’t even see the fingerprint scanner. You’re toast.
CW didn’t ask how to educate his kids about guns. He didn’t ask if he should get a concealed carry permit, a dog or a shotgun. He asked how to keep a defensive handgun “ready-to-go” in the master bedroom.
I would have to disagree RedWinged Blackbird. After more than thirty years carrying a firearm, there are many models I can simply pick up and tell you if they are loaded or not. A child however, is not going to have the experience or in many cases, even the knowledge to know the difference. This can be especially true for semi-automatic pistols where the rounds are not visible since it has no cylinder. As for toy guns? Never had any, never bought any for my kids and never would. Then again, where I grew up, we left our long-rifles on the school bus and carried our pistols into class. Hunting on the way home was just part of growing up. When you throw in the issue of children who do not have the capacity to know the difference, it is an entirely new ballgame … and not always one that can be solved with a Louisville Slugger.
Bear,
As for the birdshot, most home intruders are taken on at a distance less than fifteen feet. This makes aiming all the more important as you so aptly pointed out. However, even the concussion from one ounce of birdshot will usually suffice. (An ounce and a half in some magnum loads) Unless they are wearing very heavy clothes, you will also get penetration. Most people breaking into a house are not wearing heavy clothing or gear. If you have a good weapon, you should have at least four shots. The point is though, that you do not have to worry about strays going into … say a kid’s bedroom. My .44 will pierce grade three military kevlar with one of my rounds but the trouble there is, there is no telling where it will stop.
Safes and keeping guns out of the reach of children are all fine ideas to keep tragedy from happening in your home. However, the best method to keep unwanted intruders out of your house is to post a sign saying “neighbor has no gun.”
As a police officer of more than 25 years, allowing a child to play with a handgun is not only terrible advice, but very close to child abuse. I have seen firsthand, the results of such actions, namely, dead children and I can tell you it is a terrible event and something so easily prevented.
The only thing that kills more children is car crashes and beleive me I have seen thousands of them too.
Soap has it right. A small child can not tell the difference between a loaded and unloaded weapon and they should not be expected to. Sorry Mr. Blackbird but you are dead wrong, no pun intended.
You had better wake up before it’s too late. Tragedy happens in the blink of an eye. Teach you children to leave all guns alone and always wear their seatbelts. This is not a joke. It is deadly serious.
“Obviously, the best safety mechanism is educating kids about guns. That will happen, but they’re not ready for that yet and even if they were, secure storage would still be an issue.”
My brother always had guns, and he taught his children to always assume that a gun was loaded whether it was or not. He kept them locked up, or hidden, and never had an incident. He was a taskmaster, and when he died recently my nieces sang the song “Daddy’s Hand’s” at his funeral. If you are familiar with that song, you’ll know why he was successful with his kids. (His son is currently serving in Iraq, on his 3rd tour).
In my case, I didn’t have guns when my sons were growing up. I relied on my brother to teach them, which he did.
Now that I’m a grandmother, and a concealed carry permit holder who is ALWAYS armed, I have a purse built for carrying arms. When my grandchildren are around, the purse has a lock on the compartment with the gun, and I use it.
I’ll second #47 — the GunVault is a good pistol box, but practice opening it, especially if you “chord” the buttons in your combination. The batteries have lasted between four and eight years — the second one is still on its first set of batteries and was bought over eight years ago. There’s a key lock backup, which I keep in our large safe.
Yes, it is the first rule of gun safety. And yes, I’m quite familiar with firearms.
My only point is that giving a gun to a child to “play with”, and thereby giving the impression it’s a toy, is idiotic. They need to be taught respect for the gun’s potential danger.
Well, there ya go, CW. How do you keep a defensive handgun ready-to-go in the master bedroom?
Get a concealed carry permit.
Enroll the kids in a gun safety program.
Get a shotgun.
Get a dog.
Remove the firing pin.
I still thing you need to focus on the ammo, but that’s just me.
Lock the bedroom door when leaving. Tell kids why. And make sure that they know the gun is a secret.
This is by far the best antidote for disaster.
Remove the desire for forbidden fruit.
It is crucial that you unload the firearm and together go through every facet of its care and use including at least one trip out to safely fire the weapon and see its destructive nature and feel what its like when its fired.
This needs to happen often enough they remember the experience not to be frightened (but not a totally bad thing) but to understand, its no toy.
I tested my kids with an empty gun while friends were over and my kids kept their kids out of trouble (which I praised them for) thats when you know you’ve made headway and gained some respect for your kids and from your kids at the same time.
You have to decide the level of security needed at your house and then adjust the level of access accordingly.
Anywhere from keeping it on you at all times to locked up in a safe.
If I’m at home, I leave the safe unlocked but closed but then if my little granddaughter comes over I lock the safe.
There simply is no way to restrict access to others while affording instant access to yourself unless the firearm is on your person.
Personally, I taught my kids that Dads guns are always loaded and they respected them, it wasn’t until they were old enough to handle them alone (which is another step towards a safer world) that they ever did anything else.
They understood what could happen and they had no desire for the forbidden fruit.
Trinitytim what about swiming pools?
Back to the original question, I have no answer that would work in all cases. The semi-auto without a round chambered and without magazine inserted might be one solution as long as under the stress and fear of a break-in it would not cause too much loss of time and droping magazines. Even on the range trying to get a magazine inserted under time pressure has caused some to drop the magazine or even to try to insert it backwards.
Under the same stress conditions could you get a keypad or keyed safe open. How often have you tried to insert a onesided key upside down even under calm conditions in the day? Then if you have the safe key on the same keychain as other keys time may be too short to get the proper key.
I certainly do not have a good idea for an answer to the question.
Taurus 24/7 (pick a caliber. I prefer .40 S&W) comes with it’s own lock. You can’t fire it, load it, or chamber a round without first unlocking it. You can keep the key around your neck like has already been suggested. Best of all it holds 15 rounds and dosn’t feel like you are holding a 2X4. Put a laser sight on it and you are guaranteed a dead bad guy. Hypothetically.
Well, Hypothetical Blogger, your problem has many facets; let’s look at three:
1) You want the gun for safe, effective home/bedroom defense,
2) You want the gun available to you at night,
3) You want the gun securable for when you are away.
Working in reverse order, lock the gun away in a good safe when you get up. Faster than brushing your teeth.
I don’t know your bedroom or your personal sleeping habits, so I can’t tell you where to store the gun. A holster beside the bed will work fine, unless your kids are willing to play with it while you are right there and sleeping… and if that’s the case, the gun goes in the safe 24/7. I don’t have kids, so no advice there.
But the weapon itself… you need something to be useful in a worst-case scenario, that would harm the bad guy but not the family on the other side of the drywall. So, my advice, forget the .357 magnum by the bedside until the kids are out of the house.
Take a look at the Taurus ‘Judge’ series of pistols. They load and fire either a .410 shotgun shell and/or .45 pistol rounds. They’re a tad popular, and so have been hard to get this winter, but the supply channel is getting better; at least around here.
For me, in your position, I’d keep a Taurus ‘Judge’ loaded with .410 in a mattress holster. And if finances and/or need/desire mandate, a more serious weapon in a more secure gun safe. When you get up, put the ‘Judge’ in the safe, and switch to your carry weapon.
But you are NOT going to be able to keep a gun close to hand at night if you can’t trust your kids to not mess with it while you are there sleeping… if they’re gonna mess with the gun, they’ll put peanut butter into the mechanism of your gun safe.
I have a 9mm. The gunlock is the barrel variety (locks through the barrel and down the magazine well). I have 2 magazines loaded Glaser / FMJ for 10 rounds each. I wear the key around my neck - on my dogtags. The gun is in my closet - second key is next to the bed in a jewelry box. Time is about 30-45 seconds from alert to clear the weapon. But, See-dubya, I think the best home defense weapon is a dog. I figure, the dog will delay an intruder , alert the family and buy time while I clear the weapon and if the intruder(s) are law enforcement on another botched no-knock raid - (see instapundit) - he will also force them to ID themselves so I can take prudent action.
NEVER EVER let a kid play with a loaded jar of peanut butter!!!
You need perimeter defense (e.g. alarm system), plus gun in a bedside lockup of some convenient but safe-from-the-kids sort.
The perimeter defense makes a lockup viable by giving you some time to get your gun into operation (i.e. with an alarm you shouldn’t be woken up by someone standing over your bed with a baseball bat. You should be alerted to their entry at the perimeter).
Be like me, don’t have any kids. My guns are just fine. End of discussion.
Finally, someone addresses the question. Now, combine that with the concept of focusing on the ammo instead of the mechanical device used to activate it.
Fear is always a proper motivation. Take them out to the woods and show them how much damage the firearm does to a watermelon, for example. I’m sure your child is smart enough to not want to inflict that damage he witnesses on himself or his friends. Oh, and use a round that will really obliterate the target.
I have a bedroom pistol safe that is the size of a shoebox, and is bolted in place from the inside. (It has to be open to remove the bolts.) There are 4 buttons on top, you set your own combination. I can open it in one second flat, without looking, just by feel. I open it several times a day as I put in or take out my house or CCW pistols. It has never failed. It runs on 4 AA batteries, using almost no energy, just “standing by.” In the event the batteries went dead, it can be opened normally with the electronic combo, by holding a 9v battery against 2 external contacts. If all of that fails, it has a key.
Would it stop a determined burglar with a sledge hammer and a crowbar, assuming he could find its hidden location? No, if he was willing to make a lot of noise. Will it stop kids, up to teenagers and young adults, who are not willing to sledge hammer and crowbar it? You bet.
PS: When you push the combination on the 4 buttons, the door flips down automatically, and you can just grab your pistol. The door is the small end of the steel “shoebox”. It is spring loaded and flips down mailbox or tailgate style.
When my brother and I were 7 and 5 respectively, my Father laid out what I like to call the “Nuclear Deterrant”
It was a speech so very jarringly different than his every day interaction with us that it couldn’t help but scare the crap out of us to an extent that sufficiently buried any curiousity we might have had.
In his normal manner, he showed us the gun he had purchased and told us both exactly what it was and what, why he purchased it, and where roughly he was keeping it hidden. Very calmly he told us that we knew he loved us very much, and that he’d never beaten us, although we’d gotten and would get spankings when we misbehaved.
And like a thunderstorm on a clear day he told us if we even thought about touching it, he’d break every finger we had and sell us to an orphanage, and proceeded to demonstrate how even a little pressure on one’s fingers could be excruciating.
And just as quickly it was over, and he gave us a hug and said he hoped he’d never have to do that.
Were we traumatized? Maybe for a day… Was he serious about his threats? To this day I can’t be sure, but the point was it didn’t matter if he was serious or not. We believed it at the time, and never had the slightest interest of going anywhere near its hiding spot. Locks, safes, and other sillyness were not necessary.
As many have pointed out, education is key, I had my guns stored in my closet from around 8 years old, including pistols. My best friend’s dad was a criminal courts judge and they had at least a dozen guns hidden around the house and both kids knew where they were and how to use them. Toddlers are not a problem as the gun can just be kept out of reach it is the uneducated older kids that are a problem. I grew up on a farm with a Marine sgt. for a dad so gun safety was drilled into me from a very, very young age with the explicit knowledge they were NOT a toy. If you are not going to CC it when not at home a gunsafe that is virtually unmovable is a must for when you are away, mine weighs 800 lbs and is lag bolted to the floor joists. I agree with others that a large dog is the best perimeter defense you can have though.
I agree with what you said. I had a very similar upbringing around guns. Served me quite well thus far in life.
No, it is not. Scroll up and read the post.
Geez, another dog nut. You forgot the shotgun and the concealed carry permit.
Teach your kids how to shoot. Teach them that guns are tools and can’t hurt anybody unless the person handling them is stupid or they want to hurt someone.
My kids know how to use them, they know where they are hidden, and they know never to touch them.
I take them to the range on a regular basis.
I won’t be fumbling with some stupid key if some druggy makes the mistake of breaking into my house at night.
I’m 46 and have been raised with guns, not dead, so far, because I was taught that they are NOT a toy but a tool.
Rules from my father:
EVERY gun is loaded and should be treated accordingly!!!
Every gun you handle, YOU will check the chamber and ascertain it IS, in fact, UNLOADED!
ALWAYS, when handling a weapon (of any type), keep the BUSINESS END pointed AWAY from you or any other living thing!
If you are, say, cleaning your weapon and friends show up unexpectedly - Rack and Lock Back the action; open the bolt; or Break the action! Render the weapon inoperable without effort!
Gun Safety IS EVERYONES responsibility. If you or one of your friends comes across a gun - TAKE CONTROL; USE YOUR KNOWLEDGE; SAFE THE WEAPON; AND GET AN ADULT!
These rules were STRICTLY ENFORCED and there was an ABSOLUTE KNOWLEDGE by everyone that Dad would SERIOUSLY mess you up if you disobeyed!
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