I will not be a hypocrite. I don’t like Ted Kennedy, and will not be sorry when he dies. He’s a corrupt politician who took advantage of his name, his wealth, and his connections to avoid being charged with negligent homicide.

He, along with the rest of his Democrat cohorts have done a lot of damage to our country’s economy and national security. They align themselves with America’s enemies, disrespect the military, and use their clout to undermine the war against Islamofascism.

This goes way beyond political differences and disagreements. It’s sanctioned treason.

I’m just sorry he was never forced to resign, convicted, and sent to prison.

Your pity is misguided. There are some pepole on this planet who do not deserve polite decorum, alive or dead. Ted Kennedy is one of those people. So is Jimmy Carter, Dick Durbin, John Murtha, Pete Stark, or any one of a number of leftwingnuts who have done as much damage as they could to this country, and ther damndest to undermine the efforts in the war on Islamofascism.

Jason L. said:

Conservativism without Jesus Christ is just shrill, uneducated blather no different than that of a liberal….

Then what about those conservatives who are agnostic or atheist? What about the Conservatives, like me, who aren’t fundamentalist Christians? What about Catholics, or Muslims, or Jews? Conservativism encompasses many religions, Jason. I think you need to reexamine your definition of “faith” and its intersection with “politics.”

One more thing: you say that you and other “Christians” (who seem to think you all encompass the faith a lot more strongly than others) are being attacked or that others who do not agree with you are “reveling” in Kennedy’s mortality. I think you’re the one reveling in your own self-righteousness.

It takes a lot of, umm, “hate” to castigate the likes of ADyer or Abstractmind. I think you’re exhibiting some of the reactionary tendencies that you accuse others who don’t wish to pray of doing. There’s a little bit of the hypocrite in us and as at least one atheist on this blog pointed out to me in this blog and real life, everybody observes life in different ways.

You observe Kennedy’s life your own way and let those of us who don’t wish to pray observe it some other way.

vickisoup said:

No, emjem24; as a Christian, I do not affirm your self-righteous comment, “I will not lie before God and say something I neither feel nor mean”. Do not exchange the truth for that lie, which lie is that God accepts your hatred of Kennedy. Jesus commands us to love our enemies and pray for those who persecute us.
You’re behaving in a manner opposite to Christ’s command.

You and I, Vicky, tend to disagree quite vociferously about religion, along with other issues. Your fundamentalist perspective is a reason why I’m not a devout Christian like you. I believe in God, but I tend to think that Christ will understand if I refuse to lie by praying for someone who has consistently disrespected the military. I thought lying before God was a sin too. I guess you’re applying your own set of rules, hmmm? What would be your take if my husband, a Catholic, told you that Catholicism was the only true faith? Would you be as forgiving? Or if a Muslim was to say that Christians are infidels?

Where was the word hate mentioned in any of my posts? I think you’re digging a little too deep, given that I don’t think overly much on people like Kennedy. I don’t hate him, but I don’t need to “pray” for him to show my humility or humanity.

If you’re also commanding that I love my enemies, would you include terrorists as well? C’mon, Vicki, get real. If this were the case, I would have said a prayer for the murderous bastards who killed my two college buddies in the North Tower on 9/11. Or the murderous bastards who laid an IED that killed my friend’s Army husband 3 years ago.

Please stop telling me who to pray for. I don’t need to pray to demonstrate empathy. I’ll leave that to you.

One more thing: if you want me to pray for my “enemy” what’s your feeling about a dying, abusive grandfather who caused my mother’s misery for most of her life? You think I should do that too? Would I then get into heaven?

God accepts all people…. and not all of them are kissing TK’s ass for eternal glory. I’ll leave that self-righteous task to more deserving Christians like you.

This is where reciprocity comes in. If we treat bad people the same way we treat good people, we just encourage misbehavior and discourage morality. What this means is that by taking forgiveness to its extreme limit, we actually cause discord and unhappiness. If you treat a guy like Kennedy with the same respect and outpouring of goodwill as you would a soldier who dies heroically in combat, you are doing the world a disservice and trivializing the acts of the truly selfless.

Essentially, I place the the idea that we must personally completely forgive those who never asked for it in the same bag as the idea that waging war is always un-Christian. In other words, a misunderstanding about what Jesus was actually teaching. The problem with the “perfect” Christian ideal is that we live in a world with many people who are far from that ideal. If we, for example, were total pacifists, we would be surrendering to barbarism. Basically, so long as there are people who pay no heed to the values that Jesus taught, the rest of us will sometimes be forced to stray from that ideal in order to defend ourselves in an imperfect world. How far to go, and how to countenance pragmatism with moral perfection is where faith and wisdom come into play.

That being said, yes, Ted Kennedy has doen a lot of damage to the US of A….but is this really the time to be bringing it up??? Have we Americans forgotten what tact is all about?

I would point out your blatant lack of tact as another example of my rather long post.

Is this the time? Perhaps. Best to take care of things now while the man has life in him, than to do so after. Perhaps bringing his issues to light will hasten a possible form of repentence.

And i’ll leave it at that.

I’m not sure how you drew those conclusions, but let me shatter some delusions you have, just once.

Watch, and be informed.

RightisRight, abstract, and others level the accusing finger at us who are simply showing basic, human compassion for a man who is about to meet his Maker in a dreadful way, and we get retorts describing us in the same sentence as “Daily Kos”, “Huffington Post”, et. al

I hardly leveled anything of the sort. in your narrow view, perhaps someone did, but I’ve never described in these post that comparison. Patently false.

No confusion. Abstract, you and RightisRight could be one and the same person. Conservativism without Jesus Christ is just shrill, uneducated blather no different than that of a liberal….

We’re not the same person, of that i’m sure. but saying conservatism without your religious overviews makes us liberal is, well…just really stupid. I’m convinced you believe your own garbage, but i dont find anything i’ve said here “shrill” or “liberal”. More patently false diatribes. I’ve defended views here, even religious ones, when i believe them to be correct. But you wouldnt care, even if thats the case. You’re stuck on the beliefs I don’t hold, upset that i dont subscribe to your world view, and let that facts get in the way of your personal judgment in regards to others. I talk about religion with 30 pcs, and her and i have good discussions. I dont believe she would find me “shrill” or “liberal”.

Ah, but your statements give the lie to your words here. You may say that death is solemn business, but by your owrds above you imply that you couldn’t be happier that this calamity has come upon him. Nice try anyway…

I’m just going to go with the fact you didn’t read a word of that and comprehend it, even as plain as it gets. I’m not happy he’s going to die. I said no such thing. Again, twisting it to suit your diatribe, which is patently false AND obsurd. The calamity and ill will people are throwing at him is by his own actions. I choose not to wish him well. I didn’t condemn him either. Again, thanks for not reading the post.

So you have never done anything, abstract, to hurt another person in your entire life? You have never, ever caused pain upon another for whatever reason willingly and without a hint of remorse at the time you were doing it? Tell me you never have, and I’ll call you a liar to your face. Until you have lived a perfect, sinless life, you have no right nor no position to cast such judgment upon Senator Kennedy.

Other than the fact this doesn’t even line up with what you were quoting, I would submit that people here have no idea, with relative clarity, who or what is sitting in front of the keyboard typing here. Am I innocent? Of course not, nor did i ever imply i was, or would ever be at any future time. Did i cast judgment on Kennedy? No, and its laid plainly above. It is not my place to judge his actions in the afterlife. Let whatever lies there do so. You’re confusing, purposely, my lack of well wishing for condemnation, which plainly doesnt fit from what i posted. More patently false hatred from you. But I do have every right to point out the blood on his hands. I have every right, as granted to me by the laws of our land and by the rules that govern my life (which again, while not perfect, i attempt to live a decent, principled existance) give me perfect license to say whatever the hell I want. I didn’t slam this man. I didnt condemn this man. I simply said i couldnt wish someone well who was, for simplistic description, a murderer. And that’s all there is to it. I would call this rant you’ve gone on as far from “sage advice” as it gets. You’ve offered nothing constructive in the arena of advice, and thus claiming so makes you only more ridiculous than you already are proving to be. I’m sorry, but you’re giving me little room to do anything other than put this in its place.

Jason, if you wish to pray, please do so. I think it is your right, and you are free to do so. I would give you credit for taking pity on this man. If you choose to extend your mercy, or wish the mercy of your god on him, then that is by all means acceptable, and respectable that you would take that path. I simply am saying I choose to take the neutral path, and let Fate deal with him as it sees fit.

but the tirade you gave me, and to ADyer as well, is all about your personal religious beliefs, which you’re trying (in my opinion) to ram down our throats. Did you ever think it was people such as yourself, who throw this “fire and brimstone” approach out, that you turn off more people than draw in as a result? Your critical postings are based on your personal beliefs, and thats fine. But i find your postings over the top, condescending to people who don’t share your view in a rather rude manner, and for someone who, as i’ve aptly pointed out, hasn’t read or comprehended a thing properly that you’ve ranted about so far.

When you can give me something of substance, i’d be happy to discuss this. But thus far, your “well, jesus is the answer and if you dont believe, you’re a liberal moron and you’re not as good as me” diatribe has only served to show I am right. About a great many things.

it’s just an opinion anyway. you’ve done nothing to change my mind. You have, however, hardened my resolve that people such as yourself will take the religious highroad any time you dont want to accept someone else’s different views. And that’s not very christian, now is it? Does not the god you believe in want everyone to accept his word? does not a soft answer turneth away wrath? You don’t do your faith credit by beating nonbelievers over the head, nor does your answer turn away wrath, but invite it promptly.

I don’t wish to discuss this further. I’ve been plain.

May this find you well, Jason. I don’t wish ill on you either, though our views are very distinct. Take this with a grain of salt. But please be more polite in the future. You draw more with honey than you will with vinegar.

I am a big fan of reciprocation. I’m not saying that I can’t forgive transgressions at all. I am a compassionate person and I understand that all people make mistakes, and to immediately react severely to any little slight in the name of reciprocation would present severe problems. However, once a pattern becomes obvious, things change. Ted Kennedy has been consistent in his flagrant disregard for truth and the founding principles of this country. He is not someone who just has a different opinion, he has used his position of power to help spread seditious lies about this country, and he knew damn well what he was doing. And let’s not forget Chappaquiddick either.

Praise God, that if we have the blood of Jesus Christ on us, He won’t remember our “Chappaquiddicks”. This whole quote makes me wonder how much of whose blood ADyer and others would require for the covering and forgiveness of sins were ADyer in God’s place (thankfully, ADyer is not). That being said, yes, Ted Kennedy has doen a lot of damage to the US of A….but is this really the time to be bringing it up??? Have we Americans forgotten what tact is all about?

In my understanding, the first step to forgiveness is repentance. Ted Kennedy has never made any attempt to apologize or atone for his wrongs. I have no obligation to feel sorry for a man who shows flagrant disregard for my freedoms. Sure I am sorry he turned out the way he did, and I wish there was something that could be done to change his ways, but realistically I don’t see such a thing happening.

How do you know he hasn’t? And who are you to judge whether or not Senator Kennedy has made his peace with God or not? How do you know that Sen. Kennedy hasn’t taken to time to dfall to his knees before the living God and ask for forgiveness and done repentance? How do you, ADyer, and how can you sit in such a judgment seat and declare to know the intent and dealings of Senator Kennedy’s heart and stance before God?

That’s why I am glad his days are coming to an end. He is a man who has been involved in inflicting great evil upon others, and if death is what it takes to end his reign than so be it. I celebrate positive developments in any form. This is not to say that I would advocate murdering him or other domestic political figures. To do so would be an attack on our system of law and civility, and to excuse a person who did so would be to embrace chaos, a path which would ultimately lead to great suffering. Still, it does not mean I should not be able to take pleasure in knowing that an evil man’s reign is coming to an end, and acknowledge that on some level justice is being served.

Well forgive me if I choose to weep at the news of the terrible calamity of this man. Forgive me if I choose to fall to my knees and beg God’s healiing over him during this hour of his life when he is dealign with arguably the most dreaded disease in all of history, and has such a grim oputcome. Forgive me if I choose to lay my hopes and prayers in the bosom of Jesus Christ that this man will be spared the horror of having to go through such a dreaded thing as brain cancer. Forgive me, ADyer, if I choose to weep at calamity — personal or otherwise, deserved or otherwise — when it comes. May people not say the same thing about you, ADyer, when it is your time to “pay the piper” and exit this Earth and this life….

Jason L., you need to read the posting a little closer, if you do you’ll see, you tied abstract’s comment with mine making it look as tho one of us said it all.
I almost find it amusing on this thread if someone makes a negative comment about T. Kennedy who has a health condition so many of you jump to his defense as if he was some kind of a saint. The man was trying to undermine America since what 1964…let’s be honest here. For you self righteous posters that want to condemn myself and abstract and a few otheres…we did not jump for joy at his illness, only stated our indifference to his life as a foe to freedom in America. You didn’t see that, you just wanted to jump on us for your own self righteous religious reasons.
Your all entitled to your opinions and religious beliefs on the subject, but why the anger with those that don’t see eye to eye with you on such a subject…looks like your just looking for a fight. Your remarks make this look like huffington or kos…maybe the right isn’t so tolerant…or should i say the “far right”?
–RightisRight

Thanks, but no thanks, rightisright: I’d rather not read your quote again, because I’ve already been sickened enough by the heartlessness of yours and others’ quotes, those who, yes, are reveling in Senator Kennedy’s misfortunes. RightisRight, abstract, and others level the accusing finger at us who are simply showing basic, human compassion for a man who is about to meet his Maker in a dreadful way, and we get retorts describing us in the same sentence as “Daily Kos”, “Huffington Post”, et. al. Thanks for that final slap in the face, and remind me to not listen to nor read the posts of the likes of your ilk, rightisright, whenever you post something again in here in the future. Yours and abstracts quotes on Senator Kennedy’s misfortunes are lessons in how not to speak to people facing calamity.

Rightisright is correct, please dont confuse our statements.

And you can keep the religious diatribe, i neither subscribe nor believe in your faith. I stick to the facts. Thanks.

No confusion. Abstract, you and RightisRight could be one and the same person. Conservativism without Jesus Christ is just shrill, uneducated blather no different than that of a liberal….

I would also point out that i do not “revel” in this man’s misfortune. As i posted above, death is a solumn business. I wont be dancing upon his grave, or celebrating when he shuffles off the mortal coil.

I simply refuse to give praise, nor condolences, to a man whose direct actions and inactions led to the death of an innocent. Again, posted above for your reflection…

Ah, but your statements give the lie to your words here. You may say that death is solemn business, but by your owrds above you imply that you couldn’t be happier that this calamity has come upon him. Nice try anyway…

I am far from a heartless monster. And i’m sorry his family has to deal with this issue. But I feel nothing for a man who has the blood of an innocent person on his hands. If he feels the need to repent or find god, then that’s his business, and so be it. As I said, I simply don’t have the energy or desire to give accolades to someone who is undeserving. As previously stated, he’s had a full and robust life. Mary Jo, on the other hand, was denied such an opportunity and was instead given a watery grave.

So you have never done anything, abstract, to hurt another person in your entire life? You have never, ever caused pain upon another for whatever reason willingly and without a hint of remorse at the time you were doing it? Tell me you never have, and I’ll call you a liar to your face. Until you have lived a perfect, sinless life, you have no right nor no position to cast such judgment upon Senator Kennedy.

Take that as you wish. If you want to preach at me, you can do so, but it wont change this mans actions, much less my mind on the subject. And as always, its simply my 2 cents on the matter.

I like how those who are on the receiving in of sage advice and sound wisdom always call it “being preached at…”

Question taken as its given, and i’m happy to answer.

I do, most certainly. I’ve been civil to people here often times, even in the midst of heated arguments. I don’t go off half cocked on people, or spew hatred off on people, even if i think they deserve it. I’ve been here long enough to demonstrate as much, i think, though my tenure here isn’t as robust as some others. Not perfect, by any means, but I at least try to be intelligent in postings.

I would, for example, point out that my heartfelt wishes and condolences go out for our troops such as Cpl. Cooper. He certainly, as far as i’m concerned, deserves and earned every ounce of remorse we can muster, and then some. We owe him and his family a debt we can never repay. And so many others that deserve our respect and decency because of the honor they bring themselves, military or not. The examples there are extensive, and we’d waste all day repeating them ad nauseum.

I just do not believe it is deserved in his (Kennedy) case. I’m not spitting in his face as some have here. But I do reserve the right to withhold compassion and give it to those I think deserve it more than Mr. Kennedy. If he choses to reconcile himself before his passing, then thats fine, and may the afterlife receive him kindly. But i’ll save my thoughts and concerns for others, like Cpl. Cooper, of whom I believe their bravery and sacrifice warrent my more positive responses.

abstractmind said:
i neither subscribe nor believe in your faith.

Do you subscribe to common human civility and a sense of propriety, AbMind? Not a dig, just a question.

On May 21st, 2008 at 9:45 am, Jason L. said:

Rightisright is correct, please dont confuse our statements.

And you can keep the religious diatribe, i neither subscribe nor believe in your faith. I stick to the facts. Thanks.

I would also point out that i do not “revel” in this man’s misfortune. As i posted above, death is a solumn business. I wont be dancing upon his grave, or celebrating when he shuffles off the mortal coil.

I simply refuse to give praise, nor condolences, to a man whose direct actions and inactions led to the death of an innocent. Again, posted above for your reflection.
Adyer said it best:

In my understanding, the first step to forgiveness is repentance.

I am far from a heartless monster. And i’m sorry his family has to deal with this issue. But I feel nothing for a man who has the blood of an innocent person on his hands. If he feels the need to repent or find god, then that’s his business, and so be it. As I said, I simply don’t have the energy or desire to give accolades to someone who is undeserving. As previously stated, he’s had a full and robust life. Mary Jo, on the other hand, was denied such an opportunity and was instead given a watery grave.

Take that as you wish. If you want to preach at me, you can do so, but it wont change this mans actions, much less my mind on the subject. And as always, its simply my 2 cents on the matter.