Recently I entered into an online discussion about several mainline Protestant churches that were offering sanctuary to aliens who had entered the US illegally. The responses to my post were civil, but centered around a theme common to Protestant funda…

As Christians we are to follow man’s laws unless they directly conflict with us being required to deny Christ. This is not even close to that scenario.

I think churches need to be scrutinized when they begin to cross lines such as this and not be called churches any longer nor be on tax payers dime by being tax exempt. I consider them an activist group then.

Then, the president/commander-in-chief is a criminal: http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/01/07/bush.immigration/

Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God’s servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. – (Romans 13: 1-4)

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Sounds to me like violating the laws of a nation and crossing their borders illegally falls under that.

On May 28th, 2008 at 10:17 am, MikeOK said:
It seems pretty clear to me that according to God’s law, aliens are not to be treated as second-class citizens.

It is also explicitly clear that the greatest commandments are to love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, and soul. And to love your neighbor as yourself. You appear to be confusing compassion for aliens with supporting their illegal activities which are very clearly sinful behavior.

You twist scripture rather well to push an open borders stance. When you can show me where in the Bible it says that smuggling one’s self into a another country, lying to authorities, stealing SSN’s and identities from legal citizens is not sinful behavior then you may have a point. Last I checked just the mere few examples I just pointed out of many more that I didn’t point out breaks two of the 10 commandments for lying and stealing already. I’m sure God is just thrilled that these “aliens” are sinning over and over again just put themselves first regardless of the cost to their soul or this nation’s sovereignty.

Like this?

“Do not mistreat an alien or oppress him, for you were aliens in Egypt.” (Exodus 22:21)

“Do not oppress an alien; you yourselves know how it feels to be aliens, because you were aliens in Egypt.” (Exodus 23:9)

“Six days do your work, but on the seventh day do not work, so that your ox and your donkey may rest and the slave born in your household, and the alien as well, may be refreshed.” (Exodus 23:12)

“Do not go over your vineyard a second time or pick up the grapes that have fallen. Leave them for the poor and the alien. I am the LORD your God.” (Leviticus 19:10)

“When an alien lives with you in your land, do not mistreat him. The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.” (Leviticus 19:33-34)

“The community is to have the same rules for you and for the alien living among you; this is a lasting ordinance for the generations to come. You and the alien shall be the same before the LORD: The same laws and regulations will apply both to you and to the alien living among you.” (Numbers 15:15-16)

It seems pretty clear to me that according to God’s law, aliens are not to be treated as second-class citizens.

Of course, under God’s law there are no such things as nationalism and protectionism, because “the land is mine (God’s) and you (humanity) are but aliens and my tenants.” (Leviticus 25:23)

I think the commenters here have confused Americanism (which is of human origin) with Divine will. But God is not a puppet to be manipulated for our own self interests.

I like “sideline Protestants”, but I’m open to suggestions.

How about “faux Protestants?”

Never mind. I think I answered my own question.

And TN Dave — the problem you cite with blaming all Methodists exits in all the “mainline” denominations. There’s no doubt there are still faithful Christians among their members. But for decades those same people continued to dole out the offerings that paid for the leaders who espoused and supported values contrary to theirs. For that, I do blame them, and now, it’s probably too late for them to take back their denominations. Forty years ago, (when the Methodists were the largest Protestant denomination in the country) my dh’s family filled an entire pew at their small town UMC. Today, every single last member of his family — his parents, siblings, nieces, nephews, him — has left the UMC for more conservative denominations. I don’t know if there are enough non-leftists left in the “mainline” anymore to rescue them.

Maybe they should be called the “mainleft” denominations — because most everyone who wasn’t leftist left, and most everyone left is leftist.

On May 27th, 2008 at 7:55 pm, ThackerAgency said:
I swear I quit going to the Methodist Church in large part because of Elvira.

I don’t think the entire Methodist (or any other denomination) Church should be condemned for the actions of some of the churches.
I grew up in a small Methodist church in the country and never once remember a message that was political. All sermons were bible based and ranged from love to the hellfire-and-brimestone. Except for a few visits (weddings & funerals mostly) I haven’t attended that church since 1986 because of military commitments, but I do visit my father regularly, who still attends, and I guarantee that I would hear if that church has changed it’s practices.
I could never imagine the members of this church harboring an illegal alien or any other criminal.
That’s just the way I see it.

I swear I quit going to the Methodist Church in large part because of Elvira. Religion should not be used as a shelter from the state. . . NO RELIGION should be used as an excuse to break the law (unless you are a weed smoking Rasta – but they should change that law anyway).

It was a “What would Jesus do?” moment. I did what Jesus would have done…I left and never returned to that church. I don’t think Jesus would approve of using the pulpet to push a political agenda.

I also don’t think Jesus would approve of the Church being hijacked by law breakers.

It amazes me that the pope and Catholics would lecture us about illegals and letting them cross our border, yet the Vatican would not allow them to flow over their borders and move into Michangeleo’s Chapel.