Family sues D.C. Planned Parenthood for $50 million
You won’t read about it on the front page of the NYT or WaPo, but Students for Life reports that a $50 million lawsuit has been filed against the D.C. Planned Parenthood. The family of Shantese Butler, who was 13 when the D.C. office performed an abortion on her, is seeking damages after the procedure left the girl permanently injured and infertile:
Students for Life of America has discovered that a lawsuit was filed against Planned Parenthood Metropolitan located in Washington, D.C. on February 12, 2008.
Emma Jean Butler, mother of Shantese Butler, is suing Planned Parenthood for $50 million dollars in damages. Butler took her daughter to the D.C. Planned Parenthood on September 7, 2006 to abort a child conceived in rape. During the abortion, Shantese sustained severe abdominal bleeding, severe vaginal injury, severe injury to the cervix, significant uterine perforation, and a small bowel tear. In addition, parts of the child were found inside Shantese’s abdomen on September 8, 2006. Because of these injuries, Shantese will be infertile for the rest of her life.
Planned Parenthood Metropolitan has denied the injuries suffered and the infertility of Shantese Butler. In addition, they state in their answer that Butler’s claims are barred by the doctrines of informed consent and assumption of risk.
Kristan Hawkins, SFLA’s Executive Director, remarked, “This is a horrible situation. Our thoughts go out to Shantese and her family as she recovers from her injuries both from the rape and abortion. Further, it is outrageous that Planned Parenthood thinks they are excused from being held liable because Shantese was informed of possible risks associated with abortion. In no other medical profession would this be acceptable. How ironic is it that the pro-abortion movement claims they want abortions to be ’safe, legal, and rare’ when in this poster case for abortion, Shantese was permanently injured. Making abortion harmful and almost deadly to the young girl.”
SFLA has the lawsuit documents and Planned Parenthood’s response. CRC’s Kristina Grabosky notes that the news comes after yesterday’s settlement in Nebraska of a botched abortion that PP did as well. It’s your tax dollars at work:
This unfortunate story falls completely in line with the overall national story that PP must be, at the very least, audited by the feds since they receive over $300 million a year in taxpayer dollars. Congress has been investigating several other industries that don’t receive gov $$ for shady business practices (oil, credit card, mortgage companies), yet they fail to glance at PP who has criminal charges pending in Kansas, is suspected of defrauding taxpayers in CA $180 million, has been caught accepting donations earmarked for [the abortion of ] black babies, and is now suspected of severely botching an abortion on a minor.
When will see Planned Parenthood executives–who head a bloody billion-dollar empire supported with our public money–put on the hot seat and grilled in congressional hearings for their sins?
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Outstanding. Let’s go after them.
I hope she gets the 50 mil.
Seems like if in the case of a rape you might have taken her to a real hospital. Or will they not do that?
That’s horrible.
Not soon enough unfortunately, not soon enough.
As long as you’re trying to put them in front of a Congress that, by and large by its membership, supports this type of proceedure…
Never.
Sad story. I hope this girl takes these butchers to the cleaners.
I feel bad for her. Good luck.
That poor girl. To suffer through the trauma of a rape only to end up in this tragic situation is unimaginable. I think I remember warnings of risks, but I don’t remember being told that I could end up bleeding and torn with parts of my child remaining inside and permanently infertile.
A case like this, with phsyical damage and a lawsuit should lead to people taking a serious look at PP. Hopefully an investigation into this will lead to a look at all the pyschological damage that they cause. I want PP to be held accountable for that.
Remember that using the weapon of personal injury lawsuits to redistribute wealth in America is an old and treasured technique of the trial lawyers and Ralph Nader. Does our side want to be allied with the Ralph Naders and John Edwards of the world who pluck monetary figures out of the air and then shake down businesses? Do we really want to resort to using John Edward’s arguments? Recall that Mr. Edwards claimed in a closing argument that a baby that died during childbirth “speaks to you through me”.
And a jury in some dusty town awarded Edwards millions of dollars for this flimflam. I am very leery of using this weapon. High health insurance costs are chiefly caused by all these frivolous medical malpractice suits. Our side should win in the court of public opinion.
There are plenty of stories such as this. PP is getting away with murder and it’s not just the babies they abort. I pray for the day when the horror that they commit ends. Until then, I hope this family gets every dime of the 50 million they seek.
I hope this is a sign of more suits to come against Planned Parenthood.
Horrific! I hope they get the $50 million and then some, but I won’t hold my breath. I’m sure some liberal, activist judge will intervene and throw the case out on a minute technicality.
I’ll bet the left-wingers are heaving a sigh of relief that it wasn’t a baby harp seal or a mink.
As long as it is the killing, no matter how horribly, of a human fetus (read: human being) it is worth it to them.
I too am against frivolous lawsuits, Larraby, but how are suits against Planned Parenthood going to result in this? Am I missing something?
Planned Parenthood should change their logo to a bent coat hanger.
Please point to the frivolity in this lawsuit?
We are. One step at a time. Everyday that a young woman takes a step into a pregnancy center as opposed to a PP – is a good day. Support your local pregnancy centers. This family has every right to pursue compensation. This isn’t a Rep or Dem issue for me. It has always been to do what is right.
The really sad part about this is that Soros would have not any qualms about paying for the defense of PP….. watch how many leftist groups come to the aid of PP….. my humble prediction.
How are they NOT responsible for the injuries suffered by the child? And aren’t these the same clinics that don’t need to meet the same standards as other health clinics?
Sue the bejesus out of them. If we get PP on their heels we may still be able to knock them out. Dem’s love lawyers and lawsuits. Let’s see how this fits their bill.
Considering how much money Planned Parenthood rakes in, you’d think they could afford a better quality wire hanger for doing abortions with.
The damage done to this little girl is unforgivable on so many levels.
.
If there was malpractice involved, then, yeah, Miss Butler should absolutely get a payout. This is a horrible situation.
I think Larraby has it perfectly right though. I’ll remember this next time someone foolishly complains about “malpractice lawsuits gone wild” or the need for tort reform. When something this horrible happens because of human error, then the need for a significant payout is necessary.
As Ezra Klein so eloquently pointed out yesterday, lawsuits aren’t the problem. Malpractice is the problem.
Also, using this as an attack on abortion is ridiculous. When some idiot doctor removes the wrong limb, we don’t call for a ban on all limb removals. If there’s malpractice in a natural childbirth, we don’t call for the heads of all OBGYNs. Why shouldn’t this apply to elective surgeries as well? No one was looking to ban tummy tucks after Kanye West’s mother died.
I realize we are all up in arms about this and we are hoping that the girl wins the case, but let’s not fall out of sight there that in cheering on one side, we are still cheering on a murderer. So which side do you want to be on, the side of the murderer or the side of the murderer? Hmmmm. While I too, support the case that they obviously botched something (although I do not, nor do you, have the evidence before us), in awarding 50 million, it is nothing more than tax payer money.
We are all on here thinking that this would be devastating to the left and their movement, but would it? They have tax payer dollars going to fund PP and then when PP screws up, nothing happens to PP, we just pay more. Sounds like public education to me, it sucks, we pay. It sucks more, we pay more.
I don’t think WE win in this case. Unless someone wants to sue on behalf of the murdered baby. At this point, that is the true tragedy.
Tummy tucks don’t willfully murder an unborn human being.
I’m sure there are many similar cases out there. Perhaps this lawsuit will bring them out of the shadows and organize as the MOTHER of all class action lawsuits.
Rusty,
It’s no secret that most people here do not share your love affair for PP. There are countless cases of botched abortions at PP clinics around the country. The lack of oversight here is the issue, at least for me. Their entire operation runs without checks and balances in place that would typically drive a liberal crazy but PP gets a pass. Until they are held to the same standards as say a hospital/physician are when they do harm, then, and only then will your comparison make sense.
Two things:
1. An “idiot doctor” removing the wrong limb cannot be reasonably construed as proof of the inherent danger of amputation. Botched abortions are more common than this one girl and they are proof of the dangerous nature of the procedure.
2. This is not just about abortions in general, it is about PP specifically. With all the money and support they receive they need to be held much more accountable than they currently appear to be.
Trust me. They get plenty of checks. And most of them say, Property: US Government. Do not fold, spindle, or mutilate.
I can’t speak for anyone else, but I am on the side of a girl who made the wrong choice and was seriously harmed because of it. I in no way support abortion, but this is a 13-year-old girl who has been told again and again by society that it is “just a clump of cells” and that abortion is perfectly okay. And her mother brought her there. I do not support the decision to abort (even in a tragic case of rape such as this) but looking at this case as murderer v. murderer does no good. This scared (and now scarred) girl is by no means on the same level as PP.
Besides, for me, when it comes down to it I am not cheering anyone. Rather, I am hoping that PP is finally scrutinized and held to some serious standards.
Natural childbirth has a higher rate of maternal death or infertility than abortion does. Of course botched abortions are more common than this one girl, but there are plenty of more dangerous elective surgeries out there.
I agree with you there. The elective nature of a procedure doesn’t mean that one still shouldn’t have recourse from gross medical malpractice. If the courts decide that this horrible situation was caused by avoidable human error, than, yeah, PP should pay up.
The same applies to any other surgery. Losing the ability to give birth or losing a limb…these things can’t be taken back. That’s why I am so against tort reform and wish people would give the likes of Nader and Edwards a break.
There’s no sin in obtaining a huge settlement for a child who got their intestines sucked out by a jacuzzi drain.
Yeah. Achefty and that’s only part of the problem. With PP the first thought that pops into my mind is – where to start…
What a tragedy. But let’s not question the abortion’s place as the source and summit of all that’s noble for women!
Abortion is the only surgical procedure where at least 50% of the patients die. Last time I checked, had any other procedure been such a spectacular failure, it’d be considered “experimental” and discouraged – if not outright banned.
Not until PP changes their name to Tohellwithbirthin’.
Note how he ignores the death of the child. I guess including the child’s death wouldn’t help the mortality figures, now would it?
So supporting an unnatural, cruel, and evil practice is somehow justified?
I think not.
On May 28th, 2008 at 12:37 pm, Texas Tiger said:
TT, that’s a two-fer! Pointedly poignant and funny.
I guess that $50M will come out of yours and mine tax dollars. PP screws up. The screwee sues. I pay. Great!
JW, I am all for this as well, but this won’t do it. Referring back to my original post, lawsuits to extract money from an institution that is backed by an endless supply of money (us) will not achieve the purpose of bringing scrutiny to PP.
The only way to bring something like this down is through targeting (peaceful means of course, this is NOT a gun reference) individuals and the organization and gaining mass appeal. Politically speaking, this lawsuit means nothing and will only further the liberals cause. Now, they can encourage abortions because hey, you might also get rich.
I too sympathize with the young girl, she is a child as well and manipulated by the system and her horrible mother. But she is also not the one leading the lawsuit either. The children in this matter (all of them, dead and alive) have been chucked to the curb.
Perhaps we should all lead a charge to sue her mother! I say, if mom wins this case, we have the state sue the mother.
Rusty – I would just like to point out that I made no comment on the overall nature of abortions compared to natural childbirth. My point was not the level of danger in comparison to other procedures (that sort of comparison often proves pointless and endless) but rather that your amputation analogy did not work.
You originally reasoned that this girl’s experience is no excuse for anti-abortion talk any more than an “idiot doctor” removing the wrong limb is reason for anti-amputation talk. I do not consider those to be equivalent scenarios. A doctor cutting off the wrong limb is not a natural risk of the procedure…
Rusty, I would be interested to know your data on this. I love to have data stored up and this would be an interesting one to keep on hand, can you send your links to this information?
Let me understand this. We are on the side of a kid and mother who murdered their child and hope they get 50 million? And just where do you think that 50 million is going to come from?
Rusty you are a clueless a**. Edwards used shame “science” to bilk providers out of millions. He should be in jail not the 20,000 sq foot mansion in which he lives. I practice medicine and trust me government is the last entity you want telling me how to practice medicine on you. The last time the government practiced medicine on one of my patients the patient died as a result. I’m still dealing with two government agencies as a result of this patients death. (I refused to do as the government demanded and withdrew as the provider.) I am facing state charges even though I withdrew as the patients provider and the patient died as the result of the states care.
Government is NEVER the solution to ANY problem.
When will fathers be able to sue them for taking a human life without their permission? That is the day I am waiting for.
Azygos, I applaud you. I would love having you as my doctor.
You nailed it, EQ. Saying that natural childbirth is more dangerous than abortion uses the same (il)logic as the St. Louis police chief when he said that “Crime (is) down, except for the killings.”
EQ, TX, I am going to ignore the “at least 50% of all patients die” bit since I’m not going to discuss that aspect of abortion. We’ve been down that road too many times.
JW2, you’re right that the wrong limb being cut off is more rare than negative side affects from an elected abortion. However, tort reform would treat both of those cases equally. Which is why tort reform is ridiculous. Extreme malpractice or negligence that leads to infertility, death, or the loss of limbs is worthy of extreme payouts.
So, it’s impossible to want this family to receive a huge payout and still be pro-tort reform.
No one said it is. I am saying that government should not put a cap on how much money a victim receives.
Finally, Donut, Googling up a storm for you here.
Having some trouble with induced abortion stats. I’m avoiding pro and anti choice sources for everyone’s benefit. This CDC report says that there were nine deaths out of 850,000 abortions in 2002.
Now, I’m mixing sources and years so there are many grains of salt. However, you’re not going to find any non-partisan sources that claim that induced abortions are more dangerous than natural childbirth.
I did find an article that seems to agree with me but it’s $29 to access. Stupid JSTOR.
I will trump you with my BS card.
PP and abortionists have been hiding behind patient confidentiality for years so NOBODY knows what the true numbers are of deaths, mutilations, fertility, suicide, depression… Some numbers are starting to surface on web sites where women are posting the horrors of what happened to them. Families are posting their daughters deaths. The clinics and abortionists have enjoyed protection for too long.
Abortion is safe is a big fat freaking lie.
Soap, when you can provide non-partisan statistics to back that up, then I’ll bow down to the BS card.
Don’t make the mistake of mistaking anecdotes as macro-fact. There have never been any links to abortion and depression/suicide. To be fair, it’s not an easy thing to figure out since abortions are (and should be) confidential. But you assuming there’s a link is no better than me assuming there isn’t.
One more time because your are “partisan” towards abortion.
PP and abortionists have been hiding behind patient confidentiality for years so NOBODY knows what the true numbers are of deaths, mutilations, fertility, suicide, depression…
Now, if you think that these families are posting the horrors of what has happened to them because of abotion is “partisan”, there is little anybody can do to show you numbers that you will “bow down to”.
Simple fact: Women (and girls) are being killed and maimed. Depression is rampant. Numbers will NEVER convince you so why bother.
ROFL! I just watched “The Naked Gun” a few days ago. For some reason, I’m picturing the scene where OJ rides the missile into a fireworks factory. Explosions are going off, and fireworks are lighting up the sky, employees are running from the factory… and a crowd is stopping by on the street. Frank Drevon is holding up his badge saying, “There’s nothing to see here! Please move along!…”
Talk about the
elephantbaby in the room…Planned parenthood has got to start using a better quality coathanger if they expect to stay in the abortion business.
Soap, you “knowing” you’re right doesn’t cut it for me and shouldn’t cut it for anyone else. I would never deny that some people regret having an abortion and may feel depressed about it.
That does not come close to meaning that abortion causes depression any more than someone being depressed after getting a nose job. There is no scientific link between abortion and depression. There are people who regret getting an abortion, but that’s apple and oranges.
Also dumb: making fun of PP for using coat hangars. The entire point of safe and legal abortion is the use of safe and sterile medical instruments instead of hangars.
You don’t like hangars, support PP.
Rusty,
I started doing a little Googling as well and am coming up with what you are as well, probably because the CDC seems to be the source. Looks like it was 12 per 100k in ‘03, 13 in ‘04 and 15 in ‘05 so we are actually increasing in mortality amoung mothers during child birth.
However I also found another link (http://www.greenjournal.org/cgi/content/full/103/4/729) that talks about mortality in abortions. It is pretty low, about .6 per 100k, but it does take some dramatic increases with every passing week beyond 8 weeks. “The risk of death increased exponentially by 38% for each additional week of gestation.” Beyond 20 weeks, the death rate is as high as 9 per 100k. (data stops at 1997) All of this probably makes sense as obviously the baby is getting larger and extra development is occurring.
I also found some info from a Dr. David Reardon (http://www.afterabortion.org/PAR/V8/n2/finland.html) and it is all over the place (on the web that is). I understand we may take this as a “partisan” source, but that becomes debatable, since he is a doctor and has sources and facts to back up his data. I actually spent time trying to find info debunking Reardon, but found no actual evidence to do so beyond rhetoric. I know my source comes from the Elliot Institute, which is a partisan think tank, but the article itself is from Reardon and can be found throughout the net, as can other works of his.
Outside of Reardon’s research and putting aside the fact that reliable data is difficult to come up with on the abortion side because of confidentiality problems and naturally denying the difference between abortion and the actual birthing process, if we are to take a side by side comparison of statistical data, you are correct in the assertion that the maternal mortality rate of abortion versus birthing is much lower. Thanks for the data and the mind stimulation.
I going to ignore it because I’m going to ignore it.
Can’t argue with that logic…wouldn’t want to be seen doing it either.
Except for it’s tendency ignite in a huge fireball, hydrogen is an excellent balloon gas.
Sounds like 850,009 deaths out of 850,000 abortions to me, but what’s 850,000 corpses between friends?!
More idiocy from our resident troll telling us what to think. How about I don’t support PP or coat hangers being used in that fashion? Murder is murder and I don’t condone it in either scenario.
Right. Numbers that do not exist do cut it? And you call victims “statistics”. Sad
You will NEVER believe a link between abortion and suicide but here is a study. The link might not be “non-partisan” but the studies are (see foot notes).
I give you for your denial.
Now, just because YOU say there is no link “doesn’t cut it for me”. MORE
Everybody here is overlooking the fact, as presented in the article, that the girl was raped and did not choose to risk pregnancy. This makes the botched abortion doubly tragic and I hope she wins big in court.
850,009 at least. Those were the reported deaths in 2002.
I can’t believe some of the terms that are being used to describe the mother (horrible) or the poor girl (murderer). Remember that this is a devastated 13 yo who was just raped. We believe that children are gifts from God – maybe she doesn’t believe in God? Maybe she believes that God has forsaken her, which given her age and the circumstances is certainly not unreasonable.
With that said I think that in order for 50 million dollars to be awarded there has to be some negligence shown on the part of PP.
DCDan, I will step forward and admit that my implication was not, or should not have been, to suggest the little girl was the murderer and if that is the implied and/or meaning, than I apologize. However, to describe the mother as “horrible” as I did, is nothing short of true. If you can not believe that term being applied to a mother who would take her 13 year old daughter to have an abortion is legitimate than please state your case. Your point on the girl is well taken and heeded, but you fail to express why the mother is a saint.
Yeah, heaven forbid we acknowledge the humanity of the unborn.
Much like abortion and suicide, abortion and depression, abortion and infertility, abortion and successive miscarriages, fetal pain, etc. it’s much easier to ignore the existence of this suffering in order to further the agenda of murdering innocent children.
Here is an interesting paper concerning death rates of abortion vs birth for mothers. The beginning of the paper deals with how stare decisis might effect the decision of the SCOTUS based on the new information which the writer claims shows abortion causes more fatalaties than birth.
The really important part is on page 4 “Obstacles in Assessing Pregnancy Associated Deaths.” Please read the entire paper as is makes very cogent arguments about the difficulty in assertaining the numbers.
Pg 6 deals with the inability to code abortion related deaths in the CDC database.
I could go on, but it’s best to read for yourself.
This is a very thoroughly researched paper.
To your point Donut44 I think a similar level of trauma can be applied to the mother as well. Maybe her daughter was insistent that she have the abortion? Maybe the mother was so blinded by her anger that she went against something she would normally not do? Without getting necessarily into the pro-life/pro-choice debate, people can make gut wrenching and misguided decisions when faced with traumatic situations, and to give her a blanket description of horrible may be premature. For all we know her daughter wanted to keep it and her mother pushed her to go to PP which would make the description accurate, but we just don’t know.
EQ, you’re being uncharacteristically unreasonable. I know you’re feelings on the issue. You know mine. I am avoiding rehashing the “same old, same old” to focus on the case at hand. Namely tort reform and the safety of induced abortions.
Legally, a fetus is not human. I know and appreciate that you disagree. But since we’re dealing with a lawsuit, let’s stick to that.
People are claiming that induced abortions are unsafe procedures and I’m pointing out that the numbers strongly disagree. It’s safer for the mother than natural childbirth and any studies linking abortion to depression are tenuous at best. And there is certainly no link between abortion and breast cancer or between abortion and fertility problems later on.
Or maybe a girl was raped and impregnated and the family couldn’t afford to raise the child or the girl didn’t want a constant reminder of the violation she endured.
Cut the family a break.
Also, while I am pro-life I can definitely understand why this family made the choices that they did and honestly can’t say that I would do differently if faced with a similar situation.
Irrelevant if the baby had been born and put up for adoption. No cost to the family and the child could opt to not have any relations to the adoptive family.
That’s what we have you pro-death people for, the rest of us have the right to disagree.
Go to Afterabortion.com, Rachel’s Vineyard or other groups that formed to support women who suffer after an abortion. Tell them the link between their emotional state and their abortion is “tenuous”, then report back to me.
I am not being unreasonable. Abortion is an emotional issue because it’s wrong. Please, tell me exactly how having an abortion helped this 13-year-old girl? All it did was render her infertile.
Do I think PP should be sued? Yeah. Repeatedly. Until they no longer exist.
Rusty – I believe the paper I referrenced and *failed* to provide the —> link <—-to, which is now provided, proves your theories wrong. This paper deals with cold, hard facts that are not easy to refute. Please read it and respond.
Does this mean you concede the link between abortion and suicide? I sure am curious.
Now about those studies on the link between abortion and fertility problems. I can show you some studies as well.
Studies within the first few weeks after the abortion have found that between 40 and 60 percent of women questioned report negative reactions.3,23,35 Within 8 weeks after their abortions, 55% expressed guilt, 44% complained of nervous disorders, 36% had experienced sleep disturbances, 31% had regrets about their decision, and 11% had been prescribed psychotropic medicine by their family doctor.3
3. Ashton,”They Psychosocial Outcome of Induced Abortion”, British Journal of Ob&Gyn.(1980),vol.87,p1115-1122.
23. Reardon, Aborted Women-Silent No More, (Chicago: Loyola University Press, 1987)
35. Zimmerman, Passage Through Abortion (New York: Praeger Publishers, 1977).
WHOLE REPORT
Now the liberal argument – old studies. They new of the problems then and ignored them.
Now, tell me Rusty, abortion does not hurt women – right? There is no link between abortion and PSYCHOLOGICAL EFFECTS.
But you are now talking about fertility. Okay, same study”
”For example, one possible outcome of abortion related infections is sterility. Researchers have reported that 3 to 5 percent of aborted women are left inadvertently sterile as a result of the operation’s latent morbidity.33,23 The risk of sterility is even greater for women who are infected with a venereal disease at the time of the abortion.30
In addition to the risk of sterility, women who acquire post-abortal infections are five to eight times more likely to experience ectopic pregnancies.7,20 Between 1970-1983, the rate of ectopic pregnancies in USA has risen 4 fold.4 Twelve percent of all maternal deaths due to ectopic pregnancy.2 Other countries which have legalized abortion have seen the same dramatic increase in ectopic pregnancies.14,30” Look up the foot note yourself in the article.
So much for “none”.
Sorry for the long posts but he is making statements that are false and I will not let him get away with it YET AGAIN.
EQ,
You may mean afterabortion.org. I linked it as well.
I’m sick and tired of this line. No one – here or elsewhere – who is pro-life would argue that a mother should be forced to raise a child. There are many programs that will take care of pre-natal medical costs. And, in many cases, the adoptive family will cover the medical expenses.
Imagine how many women could receive adequate prenatal care with the millions of tax dollars PP sucks in.
And – once again – the notion that it’s better to kill another human being than to give them up for adoption, or because they’re too expensive, or unwanted, or inconvenient is alarming. The homeless guy on the street who gets hit by a car has no insurance and no money. Should we let him die? Euthanize him? After all, he can’t afford the medical costs.
You deny the humanity of the most defensless among us, and none of us can be assured our humanity and dignity is safe.
If the “fetus” is not a human being, then what is it?
By the same reason, why is it illegal to destroy bald eagles’ eggs?
Joy, I’m at work can’t cut through a dense 26 page document right now. I will need to look at that later. Sorry. I am interested though.
To be fair, your link you posted earlier was pretty balanced and was food for thought. I posted a more recent link that said no such connection existed. And that link was responding to another study that said the link was there!
So I think calling the link between abortion and suicide/depression “tenuous” is pretty fair.
I think it’s important to tell the difference regretting making the decision to abort and the procedure itself actually causing depression. If someone who had an abortion becomes “pro-life,” then, yeah, they will feel regret. But that has nothing to do with the procedure. Rather, it has to do with the decision making.
Suggesting abortion is bad because people might regret it later is neither here nor there. I could make the same case about getting braces.
Also, EQ, regarding the Butlers not turning to adoption, forcing a psychologically scarred 13-yr-old to carry her rapist’s baby for 9 months and then force her into giving birth (which as you know is no picnic) is incredibly unsympathetic. I wish more people would turn to adoption but it isn’t always an optimal solution for those who don’t believe a fetus is a human being.
This is obviously a bad situation for the girl, and I hope she can go on to live a productive life after receiving this treatment. As much as I hate Planned Parenthood, however, I wouldn’t want the girl to get the $50M. The fact that her mother took her for this procedure and consented to it is the key to the whole thing. While I don’t approve of the procedure, the girl’s mother asked that this be done. The doctors screwed up. At best, this is a simple malpractice suit; at worst it’s ambulance chasing.
In short, if you want to know why medical costs are so high, it’s because of situations like this. A patient or guardian asks for a procedure to be performed, doesn’t like the result, and then sues for “damages.”
Now, if PP had performed the operation with the girl’s guardian’s consent, then I’d say go get ‘em.
Leave it to a liberal to place getting braces on the same level as killing an unborn child.
Unsympathetic? Is that the best defense you have for murdering an unborn child who otherwise would have been born and raised in a loving home with a family that wanted to help a child grow up that otherwise would have been murdered? Monstrosity, it is the very definition of sympathetic to reach out to a 13 year old and say “don’t worry child, I will raise your child for you so he/she will grow to be a loving adult.”
Abortion is evil to the core, as EQ and others have already pointed out it always at a minimum leaves one dead and another wounded.
Tell the families it is “tenuous”.
Okay, how about Finland. Are they being “tenuous” as well?
LINK
I think you calling the process women that go through “tenuous” is
a bitextremely demeaning.Rusty – Understood. I’ll check later this evening for your response.
It’s 26 short pages so that should help.
Onmysoapbox – The paper I linked to included the Finland research as well as a California study that mirrors the Finland study.
Soap, I am going to ignore anything from a non-partisan source. Afterabortion.org is an anti-choice organization.
PersonalLiberty said:
Here’s a link I posted to earlier from Ezra Klein. The problem isn’t lawsuits. The problem is the malpractice in the first place.
If gross medical malpractice led to infertility, then Miss Butler deserves a huge chunk of money. Same for any malpractice victim.
The majority of malpractice cases never go to court. People aren’t suing too much, they’re not suing enough.
Joy,
Great work. So far I have heard Rusty say things like:
1. Unwanted children
2. Victims = statistics
3. Post-abortative women suffering from depression/suicide = tenuous
These are the arguments he stands on. Being a “Christian”, I find it hard for Rusty to reconcile these comments with his walk with Christ. But then, being a “Christian” and walking with Christ are two different things now aren’t they?
Indeed, which is why he earned the CINO standing from me without any guilt to my conscience for being judgemental.
cRusty, now you are being an idiot. I told you the site was not “non-partisan” (because abortion is “non-partisan” – right) but the studies are legit. The idea you are throwing the baby out with the bathwater (no pun intended) is proof enough you are losing your argument.
It is YOU who is saying there are NO links between abortion and depression/suicide. There are. Others are sending you studies and your excuse is, too long to read. Geez – is it so hard to say you are dead wrong? Oh, I’m sorry, all studies that do not line up with your belief system are “tenuous”. What were we thinking. So, the women who have posted on this site (sorry ladies) and said they have had issues are just imagining things?
I dare say your numbers reflect pro-death bias. There, I win. Is that the game we are playing?
Your claims have been refuted your argument is dead in the water.
Well, I’ve posted on here before about my abortion experience and how it has effected my life. Personally, I believe my ‘choice’ led to nightmares, suicidal thoughts and attempts and depression.
I also believe it rendered me infertile which is why I am still childless. And since I’m almost 50 and no longer have my uterus and ovaries, I can’t see that changing.
But more important than all that. I killed my own child. I thought I was justified because my pregnancy was due to date rape and I was adamnatly pro-’choice’ at that time. But I turned pro-life on the table when it was too late to stop. I was not a Christian or religious in any way so it wasn’t religious induced guilt. It was the sheer horror of realizing I had just had my baby killed. It wasn’t a blob of snot or just a clump of cells. It was my child.
I became a Christian several years later, but in between I was a pro-life atheist. The only one I knew at that time.
Women should be willing to sacrifice for their children, not expect their children to sacrifice their lives to the god of convenience.
And yes, MistressJustice uses those same arguments. People who are poor or don’t want children should kill them instead. My parents didn’t want me, but I’m glad I didn’t end up in a garbage can like my child did.
I’ve experienced great anguish in my life, but am glad to be alive and glad I wasn’t killed by my mother or by myself when I attempted.
Think of all the great people who were born into poverty but overcame it. Some people think that life has to be perfect and without trial to be worth living. I would say just the opposite. We only learn and grow from adversity. But all choices have consequences and we don’t get to choose those.
I’ve learned it’s always better to avoid the sin rather than live with the memories and consequences of it. Yes, I’ve learned from my bad choices, but I learn more when I muster the fortitude to choose the right, and lean on my Heavenly Father and my Savior for the strength to stand strong. And those choices yield no nightmares or haunting thoughts like the choices to sin do.
A line from one of my favorite books/movie, Jane Eyre (Timothy Dalton/Zelah Clark version), “Dread remorse when tempted to err Miss Eyre. Remorse is the poison of life.”
A well said and heartbreaking retelling of your life Joy. Thank you for sharing, and God Bless.
I get a little heated on this topic from time to time, so forgive my choice of words. But when you have stand up against evil men and women who will scream at you blue in the face that an unborn child is just a clump of cells you tend to get irritated quickly at their murderous propaganda.
Great story Joy – the overcoming part. I will continue to pray peace over your life!
Soap
Maybe I missed it but Rusty, you keep referencing “natural childbirth” but I keep seeing only stats on “childbirth” with no mention of “natural”. Until a couple of years ago I did keep up on those types of things and the numbers I am familiar with did not agree with your stats (as stated) which is why I’m wondering if you mean just “childbirth” minus the “natural”.
Also, I must disagree on your position that giving birth “is no picnic”… on the contrary, my 2nd was really, REALLY cool and my 3rd was so much fun my midwife made everyone leave for a while because we were “having too much fun” and it was slowing down my labor – all natural and at home.
Also (and not specifically to you, Rusty), I’ve known quite a few women (and young girls) who’ve been raped and given birth – some keeping the child, some giving them up for adoption. It’s not easy by any stretch of the imagination but abortion is obviously not either and this poor young woman will never again have that option.
My prayers go out to her and her family.
I am not going to give any weight to statistics from an anti-abortion site. Afterabortion.org is an anti-choice site. There are no ifs, and, or buts about it.
And I never said there was no connection. I said any connection is tenuous. Which is the truth. I linked to a study saying there was no connection. You and Joy linked to studies that said there were. That is pretty much the definition of tenuous, is it not?
You and Joy are both sending me research from a known anti-choice advocate. It would be stupid of me not to take that with a grain of salt. If I sent you a study commissioned by Planned Parenthood or Guttmacher you’d have the same reaction. But I’ve been trying very hard not to do that. So give me a break already.
Even if a link between abortion and depression were rock solid, the same could be said of natural childbirth anyways.
Pach, you’re right. My use of “natural childbirth” isn’t quite right. I meant the natural progression of childbirth as opposed to a pregnancy that is intervened upon (by induced or uninduced abortion).
Sorry for picking the wrong words.
Joy, your story is beautiful. I know that many will doubt my sincerity considering my views on the matter, but it breaks my heart that you were put in that situation by a rapist and then were forced to make such a huge decision. And I’m sorry you chose something that led to regret. Thanks for sharing.
No that is your opinion, the truth in all instances is always eventually revealed and your opinion that it is tenous is far from anything that remotely resembles truth as can be evidenced by your concession here:
Can’t win an argument so make up a false moral equivalent to murdering one’s child with having a child naturally. But I didn’t expect your argument to be a good one, it hasn’t been yet so why should it be any different this time around.
My opinion is that any link is tenuous? Ok. So if there are studies saying there is no link and studies (which aren’t from an objective source!) there is a link…what would you call it if not tenuous? Seriously. Humor me.
alaskangrizzly:
Rusty’s just defending a
guy’s right to impregnate his mistress and coerce her into an abortion when she gets pregnantwoman’s right to choose. Facts be damned!Rusty – I’d prefer it if you looked at and read the link I provided and responded to the research and studies from Finland and California rather than dismissing them out of hand calling them anti-choice.
Again, you need to read the paper I linked to and deal with the facts. And show me where the studies themselves were done by anti-choice , aka prolife people.
The STUDIES themselves, that were NOT done by prolife people show you are wrong on all counts.
I find it hard to imagine that anyone reading that research and seeing the studies would not walk away with a pro-life view. Expecting people who see those facts laid out in front of them to walk away with a pro-abortion view simply isn’t logical.
And again, the studies themselves were completely unbiased!
I am not here for your amusement. Sufficient evidence including a real life example from Joy (that is just one of millions shared on “partisan sites”) on the very argument being made by myself, EQ, Soap, and others have shown that there is conclusive evidence of severe physical and mental side effects of abortion (see murder) process. If you choose to ignore the truth and lean on studies made by people that intentionally want to have the results in their favor to push their murderous agenda that is your call and on your conscience. These are the same people who won’t release accurate and verifiable data on the number of abortions performed nevermind who may or may not have sought treatment afterwards and you want me to trust people who are hiding the truth for their benefit?
I certainly don’t envy you one day when you die, good luck explaining to the Creator of the Universe that you thought His creation was just a lump of cells.
My ‘choice’ to murder my child was better than the man’s choice to rape me how? Killing my baby did not help me! And I’ve spent the rest of my life childless. It’s not beautiful, it’s tragic!
When a woman is dealing with rape, it will not help her to add to it her killing her own child.
And most abortions have nothing whatsoever to do with rape. They are abortions for convenience and no other reason.
93% of abortions are for “social reasons” – not connected to issues of rape, incest, or to save the mother’s life.
Joy – I am so sorry for your situation.
Rusty – everyone has a bias. Even the “unbaised” sources you claim to seek. The difference is some biases are for good while others are not.
As I guy I can easily favor abortion…seems like a logical way to solve “inconvient problems”…if I got a girl pregnant and wasn’t willing to take responsibility, it’d seem like a sure-fire way to solve things…
But offering solutions doesn’t make abortion right.
And I can see how an abortion can seem like a way for a 13 year old raped girl to get clean from the horrors of a terrible attack that left her pregnant.
But again, just because it offers solutions doesn’t make it right.
What’s more certain is that if that aborted child was allowed to be born, the young Mother would most likely be able to have more children later. But now she will carry the scars of a terrible attack AND a shoddy abortion for the rest of her life.
$50 million seems pretty cheap to me.
It’s also more certain that while that raped girl would have to indure the pain of childbirth way too young, not having an abortion, she’d never experience the knowlege of having life ripped from her body.
And while the conditions of the conception may be less than desireable, a child who may had offered hope and love not only to it’s Mother, but to the rest of the world, would of been allowed a chance at life.
There’s interesting ways at looking at this…the parents are sueing for $50 million…I guess all in their devotion to their child. But it seems they had no such devotion toward their grandchild, their daughters child…they were willing to let Planned Parenthood, abort their grandchild.
Just kill it.
Now they’re outraged. They will no longer have grandchildren, at least from their daughter. So outraged they are suing a organization they chose, who was only offering a service to ease their “burden.”
I’m curious, are they equally eager to find and prosecute the rapist? Souldn’t they want to sue him too? Maybe he dosen’t have $50 Million.
IMHO abortion is wrong. But besides that, it’s this lawsuit that’s needed to be aborted.
Joy, I can relate. I paid for my girlfriends abortion. After that I never felt that I deserved to have a child. So even though I am married, we chose not to have any children.
Often ignored is how the male feels when his child is aborted. To the feminist he does not matter anyway.
Really. How safe is it for the aborted fetus? Seems without the posting you do, you don’t understand anything people are telling you.
If PP loses this lawsuit, it will just be referred to as one case of a doctor making a mistake, like most medical malpractice suits. I would like to see a liability lawsuit with $100M in punitive damages filed by someone who was raped by the same person who committed statatory rape on a PP client but was never reported by PP. Since PP is legally required to report statatory rape and they don’t, if that same person went out and raped another girl, it seems she would have an incredible case against PP – not just for negligence, but for a criminal act for defying the law. It seems that the punitive damages would be enormous!
(Actually, I would prefer that this happen as part of some class action suit or something that would not unfairly prove a lotto bonanza for one person. I would love to see PP punished, but would like the funds spread around a bit.)