First, the polar bear…now, the Pacific walrus
The floodgates of enviro-litigation are wide open. Blame the Bush administration for capitulating to global warming alarmists. After successfully mau-mauing the government into listing the polar bear as threatened based on dubious data, green lawyers are now filing suit to get the Pacific walrus listed as threatened, too.
And it won’t be the last.
The Center for Biological Diversity gave notice this week that it will sue to force federal action on its petition to list the walrus as threatened because of “threats from global warming and offshore petroleum development.” The group filed the petition in February; the Interior Department faced a May 8 deadline for an initial 90-day review of the petition.
Shaye Wolf, a biologist and lead author of the petition, said Arctic sea ice is disappearing faster than the best predictions of climate models. “As the sea ice recedes, so does the future of the Pacific walrus,” she said.
The conservation group was one of three that successfully petitioned to have polar bears listed as threatened because of sea ice loss caused by global warming, a decision announced May 14 by Interior Secretary Dirk Kempthorne. That listing also followed court action to force deadline decisions.
But on what statistical basis do they claim that the walrus is threatened? As the article states, the current size of the Pacific walrus population is unknown.
Bruce Woods, a U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service spokesman in Anchorage, said the agency is close to finishing a walrus survey. “We do have a population count from the 2006 survey that should be finalized soon,” he said. “That will give us a better basis for evaluating the petition.”
…Arctic sea ice last summer dwindled to 1.65 million square miles, the lowest level since satellite measurements began in 1979, according to the National Snow and Ice Data Center at the University of Colorado.
As many as 6,000 walruses late last summer and fall abandoned the remaining ice, which covered deep water, and congregated on Alaska’s northwest shore.
The MSM has hyped alarmist stories of Pacific walrus stampedes, but as blogger Tom Nelson observed last December, the reporting raises more questions than answers.
One AP article, for example, described how “scientists received reports of hundreds and hundreds of walruses dead of internal injuries suffered in stampedes” and quoted biologist Anatoly Kochnev of Russia’s Pacific Institute of Fisheries and Oceanography as estimating that “3,000 to 4,000 walruses out of population of perhaps 200,000 died, or two or three times the usual number on shoreline haulouts.”
Nelson asks:
Were anecdotal reports of “hundreds and hundreds” used to come up with the estimate of 3,000 to 4,000? How much actual counting was done? What’s the baseline number of annual stampede deaths? Is anyone checking that any animals found dead were killed in stampedes, rather than dying from some other cause?
A World Wildlife Fund article admits:
The recession of the ice has brought more and more walrus on shore, and over the last ten years, every fall, walruses have congregated on the Vankarem Cape, forming a “haul-out” just a half-mile from the village. Last fall some 20,000-30,000 animals were piled up there. No one has actually counted them all, but the Vankarem residents are certain the number is growing.
Nelson also notes a factor not mentioned in much of the hype: Hunting. And not just by humans, but by…those dang polar bears. He points to info from Sea World’s Pacific walrus page:
As the Pacific walrus population grew, annual subsistence catches by indigenous Arctic peoples ranged from about 3,000 to 16,000 walruses per year until about 1990, and then decreased to an average of 5,789 animals per year from 1996 to 2000.
From the Seal Conservation Society:
Pacific walrus meat has been used for the past 40 years to feed foxes which are kept on government - subsidised fur farms in Chukotka. One estimate made by natives was of an annual kill of 10,000 - 12,000 walruses per year, but this may have been overstated. Recent investigations have found that much of the meat is left to waste and that there are no markets for the resultant fox furs. Fox farming operations in Chukotka are currently in decline due to economic recession. Local unemployment caused by the general economic situation and the closure of the farms has however led to a recent increase in illegal head-hunting.
And from that WWF article again:
In early winter, when the ice is re-forming and walruses leave the beach, up to 100 carcasses remain behind. These blubbery animals offer a perfect meal for wandering and hungry polar bears.
…As soon as the walruses departed, the polar bear patrol spent several days working to collect the remains of walruses killed in the stampedes. Using a tractor, they carted the carcasses six miles west of the village, anticipating that the bears would come from the west in the fall. In the end, they scattered some 80 walruses around selected sites — and then they waited.
In mid-November, a truck driver alerted the patrol to bear tracks on the beach. The wave had begun. For the next three weeks, bears making their way along the coast stopped to graze on the carcasses at this so-called “feeding point” instead of proceeding to the village. At one time alone, Sergey and his team counted 96 bears feeding on the walrus. In total they estimated that 185 bears had been circulating with a six mile radius around the village.
Nelson writes: “Eighty-100 dead walruses out of 20,000-30,000 hauled out on land seems quite low, if Kochnev’s estimate of 3,000-4,000 total stampede deaths is correct (remember, his estimate is based on a population of maybe 200,000, many of which are not hauled out in huge herds).”
As for disappearing ice, tell it to the passengers of this Russian ship that got stuck in Arctic ice–while on an eco-expedition to show off the horrible effects of global warming on the environment.
Oops.
(File photo hat tip - Anthony Watts.)
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Categories: Enviro-nitwits
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If I remember correctly, another ship full of enviro-commies got stuck in the Antartic for the same reason.
One at each pole. Nerds.
Also, may I propose that the term “environmentalist” be replaced with “watermelon”? You know, green on the outside, commie red (or pinko) on the inside?
That is all.
Bad science marches on.
It seems to me that all the different “Save the _________(insert animal name here)” Societies use different methods to determine how many ___________(insert animal name here) there are and how many are hunted, killed by other carnivorous animals, or die naturally. Then they use the biggest numbers or just make them up to justify their “Save the _________(insert animal name here)” cause or to try and cause alarm.
They need to have a meeting and get their stories straight. It’s hard to take them serious until they do.
This isn’t a bit amusing. PTA-hopping here in Queens I see millions of children in our schools (except perhaps home schools) are being duped and deceived into swallowing socialistic agendas hook line and sinker based on environmentalist horror scenarios with Disney animals in peril, boosted by the likes of the Discovery/Science Channels and their websites and Space.com and scholastic LifeScience.com which DON’T answer much less post contrary views. The green crusade is going to be the most expensive scandal since Soc Med.
Applauds for Phoenix landing! Now NASA, will you be gutsy enough to release the raw planetary temp/solar incidence data from it, unlike what haven’t done for the the other probes under “green” pressure? (Note how NASA crows when its probes are solar powered but keeps mum about its nuke ones being powered that way like Cassi and Viking!)
James Greenidge
Queens NY
The Words of Jesus. Could he be talking about “Global Climate Change” when he refers to the distress of nations, with perplexity?
Keep your lamps full of oil…
We’re on a slippery liberal slope.
Whale oil? Walrus oil? Polar be– do polar bears make oil?
Let the globe get warm; if the ice melts, we’ll just build our cities underwater where it’s cooler.
Gee, and I thought you needed science data not lawyers.
I’ve got some yummy polar bear recipes, in case anyone needs one. They are a little tough, but the fur is nice, good for use during the coming ice age.
Another thing on the endangered species list - Republican backbone.
And another thing on the endangered species list - my vote for Republicans with no backbone.
Endangered polar bears are eating endangered, but dead, walruses near an ice sheet that may or may not be receding. Now that is a hook to hang energy policy and force us to live in a cave eating roots and grass. I guess I’ll have to buy one of those Artic Fox coats incase all these dead walruses cause global cooling.
Save the walrus! Feed the Artic Foxes Tree Huggers. I’ll take two coats.
JHSII …
Get rid of the elephant and replace it with a Jellyfish … much more accurate
The reason for this flurry of activity now is they are using their “nuclear option” to defeat the growing public demand for oil drilling in Alaska, offshore and anywhere else where there might be a lot of domestic oil. An endangered species will be found at every potential drilling location.
ROFLMAO
Carbon Belch Day
Ugg… I am OK with making a road go left instead of going right to protect an endangered habitat. But come on, the human population is expanding. We will need to piss off a few animals every once in a while…
Just make sure we are able to keep up on the production of chickens, pigs, and cows, and everything will be OK!
=)
Agreed. Polar bear, walrus, porcupine caribou, spotted horned owl, etc. aren’t a staple in mine or many other diets.
At least there’s one animal NOT on an endangered species list that we can still eat. In fact there seems to be an increase in the population every year. We should start culling the population before they destroy their habitat and become more of a pest. I propose a two per week bag limit on the Lunaticus Enviromentalus. Let me know if you need recipes.
Mmmmm sweet, sweet irony.
~(_8^(|)
You just don’t GET IT.. do you..
it’s BECAUSE the population is unknown is why it needs protected..
it could be anywhere between 500 to 500 million.. we DON’T KNOW.. which is WHY it needs protected..
/sarc off..
If only we could channel this energy to protect babies, er, I mean, fetuses - this world would be a better place…
Instead, these people are tripping all over themselves, jumping on the
global warmingclimate change bandwagon. Who needs facts when there is an agenda to ram down our throats.#6- here’s another one for you…
“They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.” Romans 1:25
On another note, isn’t this a form of legislating without using the legislature? If one is fined for harming or endangering a polar bear, walrus, what have you, then this is done so with an amended law not written by our elected legislators, and enforced via fines and potential jail time without a trial by jury. This is beyond polar bears and other animals. It’s just another volley in this insurgency of ideas that’s attacking our country from within.
I’d like to see these environmental idiots put on the endangered list (by virtue of reducing their population)…
Tennessee Dave (#4) - That’s the most depressing Mad Lib ever!
Right on 30 pcs, these clowns care more about animals then their own species.
Until they make Coca-Cola ads with cute walruses, they just won’t resonate with the feelings over fact crowd like the polar bear does.
OT
High Risk for damaging Tornadoes in Nebraska, South Dakota and Iowa today.
If suv’s in america are causing global warming, then how come the other planets show the same level of warming? I am all for cleaning things up, but this global warming crap is just a way for some people to get rich.
to quote a rich carbon trader:
“THEY PLAYED ON OUR FEARS!!!”
I was recently watching an episode of Deadliest Catch on the Discovery Channel, and one of the captains on the Bering Sea said, “I’ve never seen the ice pack this [far south] this early. Where the hell is all that global warming they’ve been talking about?”
Libs can have their multi-million dollar scientists, I’ll take a REAL AMERICAN doing his job and his comments on what’s actually there, not in some computer model!
Can we now say that the environmental movement is an official religion that will stop at nothing to convert the world? Good grief and God help us!
If the Environmentalists really cared they would be cleaning up the pig farms in North Carolina.
If the Environmentalists really cared they would be cleaning up the inner cities.
If the Environmentalists really cared about animals they would be vegetarian.
If the Environmentalists really cared about the Human fetus, abortion would be illegal.
The reality is the environmentalists only really care about feeling good about themselves by telling everyone else what their priorities are.
The captain is obviously an oil company stooge. He probably works for H-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-L-L-I-B-U-R-R-R-R-R-R-T-O-N!
Ouch. Liberal mental gymnastics are painful. They require you to fall off the balance beam.
I keep wondering, with all the contradictions to global “warming”, when the carbon credit ticket takers will change the official name to “Global Climate Change” — that way they cover both ends of the climate spectrum and won’t have to be distracted with defending why it’s so cold if we’re having global warming.
Goo goo g’joob!
iamsaved:
Think big! Global warming and global climate change are small ball.
With all the publicity earthquakes in China, California and the Midwest have garnered, I predict that GLOBAL SHAKING will be the new Global Warming.
Imagine the possibilities! While the global warming cultists are content to tax merely carbon emissions, we GLOBAL SHAKERS want a tax on any and all human movement!
All your base are belong to US!
Texas Tiger…
Since the Gore-ba-chefs already blame everything on Global Warming, they could then blame the earthquakes on Global Climate change — it’s all encompassing. They have to have something to blame everything on since Bush will be leaving the White House and won’t be any fun to pick on when in Crawford, TX.
O.K. Lucy ’splain this to me. How in the Hell is a ship to get stuck on ice that isn’t supposed to be there ? Anyone ? Obamba ? Al ?
I love Irony.
The environmental movement is so radical as to be irrational. It has no humanitarian instincts and is perfectly willing to destroy the USA, the civilized world and every human being to make a point. It is the most dangerous philosophy next to Islamic fascism - and may actually be worse.
Our rapidly rising energy cost are directly attributable to this bunch - and the situation is only going to get worse. (Unless the citizenry of this country puts environmentalism in its proper place, we can expect $10 a gallon gas in a decade if we are lucky.)
So all of this nonsense with data from less than 50 years ago. Wow. Insanity sure does go around. What if in 1978 it was alot less then what it was in 1979, but we didnt have the satellite up yet. Is it me, or are some people just plain stupid.
Oh, but it is just a SLIGHT CAPITULATION to the GLOBAL WARMING people, what HARM can it do??? Besides polar bears are SOOOOO CUUUUTE. If you let the camels nose under the tent, soon he will be in bed with you. YOU PEOPLE need to start voting for people who DO NOT follow this blurred line of SCIENCE. The other day a blog appeared on this site, and many others, 31,000 plus scientists were debunking GLOBAL WARMING THEORIES. As of this AM, May 29th, not one word of this has been in my local RAG. These people have an agenda, and you had better FIGHT them now, BEFORE they get too much CONTROL of your LIFE!!!!
May I add one?
If the Environmentalists really cared about the environment, they would want a border fence put up and the human trafficking stopped.. I’m sure everyone has seen the emails with the garbage everywhere on those back trails in AZ?
On May 29th, 2008 at 7:22 am, undrseige247 said:
We’re on a slippery liberal slope.
A “sliberal slope” indeed!
Well, my comment will not be liked to be sure. I am conservative on most things (I read MM’s site everyday, first thing) however I am not a global change denier. I think it’s real and from sources I trust, we have about 2 years to get our act together or we will perish. Yeah, that’s right…perish from gases deadly gases coming up from the ocean floor…there is enough to kill all life on earth.
I am glad for the animals. I was absolutely repulsed that they were being killed for fur farms. That is so reprehensible, I have no words for it. Killing beings, who have a right to life just like we do, for an enterprise that kills animals for their fur. Disgusting. For that reason alone, I am totally for protecting these animals.
Fur is so gross, so selfish, so barbaric. I don’t care if it helps the”economy”. So does slavery and illegal slave labor. Some things are not right. We need to move on to positive industries that do not hurt living beings.
Hurrah for this. I hope the walruses WIN.
I think the offical Latin name for them is Luna Chiroptera.
I want to leave another commnet.
I have some conservative friends who I really like. However, they smirk at global change. Why is this? I think it’s because it’s big they don’t want to drop their inconveniences. Like I said, they are nice people but they are waaay to cavalier about this problem. I never wanted to Gore for Pres and he is a carbon hypocrite for sure, but that doesn’t mean his film wasn’t right on. I was very impressed by it. We need to wake up…if we care about our children and the future at all.
When there are fewer environazis than walruses in Kochnev’s stampede death estimate it will be a glorious day.
Until then…
Soliel - Do you really think that is the only possible reason your friends are skeptical? Either you believe in global warming or you are too selfish to open your eyes?! What about the many (many, many) climatologists who disagree with Gore’s alarmists tales about global warming? I happen to think that there are more reliable sources than the MSM and environmental groups and they are not, as far as I can see, pointing to doom and destruction.
You honestly believe we will perish from deadly gases in two years? I must say, that to me sounds as far-fetched as Ted Turner’s fear that we will run out of food and be forced to resort to cannibalism within ten years.
Soliel, that is because there is alot of evidence that man made global warming is junk science. I pity those who have bought the global warming farce hook line and sinker.
Soliel, you’ve been duped. Remember a mind is like a parachute, it works better when open.
Soliel:
As Send_me so aptly pointed out earlier:
If you’re willing to believe hype from unproven sources that we will all perish within 2 years if we don’t do anything about the climate - something mankind has never been able to do — then why don’t you put your faith in a source that has never been proven wrong - either spiritually; geographically; archeologically; or historically? God’s Holy Word - the Bible.
The end times are near - if not globally, then personally. No one gets out of this life alive (except maybe some Saints). You might want to prepare yourself for that event which will come at some point in each person’s life - especially if you believe what you’ve stated about uncontrolled global warming.
Turn walrus blubber into bear bait,
go oBORGama in 08,
let’s all assimilate!
How right you are!!
So, please, please for the children’s sake, wake up and smell the icetea.
Global warming caused by human beings is a frickin’ hoax!!!
You goof balls who believe that we pathetic, little human beings can have such an impact on the planet are arrogant fools.
Can you please explain why other planets in the solar system are also exhibiting signs of “global warming”?!? Jupiter now has three red spots… why? It’s heating up!!! Same for the shrinking polar caps of Mars!!! No humans living extravagant lives up there that I know of!!
If you look closely this is a real crisis point.
Wake up people. The enviro’s are out to destroy our civilization and we’ve given them the rope to hang us with.
I saw this coming back in the 70’s when they stopped building a dam in Tennessee because of this small darter fish. I hope I got the name right, and I don’t remember if the dam was ever finished, but my wife and I talked about the flood gates were opened (pun intended)and soon every animal on the planet would be on the endangered list. It’s 2008 and the gates are still opened.
TO SOLIEL; Can we get together, say May 29th 2010. That way you can give US your REVISED DATE for GLOBAL CATASTROPHE… That is one of my PET PEEVES with YOU PEOPLE, you never seem to be available when your FACTS turn out to be BULLS@#&T!!! Can I count on you???
All those walruses need is a bucket. But Bush took their buckets away!
Apparently they’ve straightened out the yards versus meters issue that pancaked a previous probe to somewhere…
Where did Soliel go? I really wanted to hear her (his?) responses.
To “Raised Right”: You are calling those who are concerned about global changes as “too selfish”? Why? There is nothing in it for them. There is nothin in it for me. I wish we didn’t have this worry about, it is a genuine concern. To me, those who would prefer not to think about it or be inconvenienced about it are the ones being “too selfish” as they are willing to risk losing our planet because they don’t really want to be bothered or because they don’t like Al Gore.
To “Iamsaved”: You mention the bible, what makes you think I do not revere the Bible also? I do, as a matter of fact. Many Christians just think we don’t have to use our wisdom or intelligence that God gave us, all they care about is being saved, screw the planet. I am not one of those Christians. I think that is the wrong way to do Christianity…we are supposed to be wise, intelligent and noble..not lazy and leave everything to God. God wants us to be good stewards of the planet, and we have not chosen to do so. Not very good examples of “God’s children”, IMO. We can and should do better.
To “Pueblo1032″: Wow, you are so angry at me just because I care about this. Is it possible to leave the hostility aside? I am not trying to take anything from you, I am sincerely concerned about this. Don’t be like the intolerant leftists who hate everyone who doesn’t think like them, it’s not pretty. Try to be more understanding instead of hateful/angry.
To everyone…yes, there are “scientists” who are probably saying this is bunk, but what if they are wrong? Also, I know, unfortunately, in this country, science and industry are linked. This has been shown in the food industry. Certain diets have been truly scientifically proved to be dangerous to human health but since certain industries are threatened by this information, they gather their own scientists to “prove” otherwise. They deliberately obfiscate, confuse and distract to take us away from the truth. I would not be surprised if this is happening with global change. There are many industries who do NOT want to change and will do whatever they can to dismiss the facts.
I never wanted Al Gore for Prez, and he is indeed a hypocrite when it comes to environmental issues, however it does not mean he is not right on this one.
Good day all. I pray we survive this.
One thing I have noticed about human nature is too often, we dont’ want to give up our pleasurable habits.
I think this is the reason so many want to disregard global change…they simply don’t want to give up habits that are harming the planet.
The couple I mentioned, are nice, but they still are attached their steaks and they have no children…so what do they care? Right?
I am not against pleasure, I love pleasure myself, but I do try to tred more carefully on the planet and be responsible. I want my life to be of service to the planet, not a waste. I want to add, not take away.
TO SOLEIL; Good answer (NOT)… There is not any animosity in my question to you. Just TRUTH. You folks never seem to be able to answer a SIMPLE question, in a direct manner… Again May 29th 2010, can we count on YOU???
Pueblo1032. Yes, you can count on me. I hope it does not happen, I do. I would rather just worry about regular things in life rather than global change as well. It would be a welcome relief.
Everyone…all over the news it’s been how animal agriculture is the biggest culprit of carbon gasses. Yes, I am mad at Gore for not mentioning this…bad on him. We need to stop eating so much meat. We need to do this to save ourselves. We need to be more consciencious and CARE. Hate me all you want for being the bearer of bad news…but that won’t take away the truth.
I hope the Walrus and Polar bears get protection…especially from those who kill them for selfish reasons. We really need to be better and start respecting other beings more…it doesn’t say much about us when we just go wantonly killing for fun.
Soliel - you completely misread and/or misunderstood my comment. I was pointing out that you called those who are skeptical about global warming selfish. From your comments in #46:
You clearly suggested that people who don’t buy into global warming do so because they don’t want to deal with inconveniences… i.e. they are too selfish to follow the cult of global warming.
My point is that I have a problem with what you hinted at in #46 and came right out and said in #60… You think that the only reason that people could possibly not believe that we are doom to perish from deadly gases is because we don’t want to be inconvenienced by changing! That is absurd. Why can’t you believe that it is possible that we don’t buy into your theory because science and logic tell us otherwise?
Raised Right-
Well, we can disagree.
I don’t think it’s “absurd” at all. People are generally very attached to their habits and will defend them at all costs. Plus there is this thing in human psycology called “denial” where we dont’ want to look at the very thing that is discomforting or disturbing.
I know this. I am an animal advocate. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve come across people who want to deny x,y or z is happening even with video/photos of it. They don’t want to know…why? Because it’s upsetting/uncomfortable something they don’t want to deal with. I’ve come across it hundreds of times, I’ve come across excuses for such things hundreds of times.
We can disagree but denial is part of the human condition…in many arenas of life.
Similar to the denial that much of the left has in their denying they hate America! Or that we have real enemies! Or that even abortions maybe a sin. Same thing. We all have our own patch of “denial” we should work on.
That couple..I like them a lot. I don’t care for this aspect of them. They are more conservative than I am about the environment…a worldview difference that I do not share, but I don’t hate them for it. The thing is, they don’t have a real reason to deny it, they just hate Gore. Not a good reason to dismiss it, IMO. However, the woman is waking up to a plant based diet since I’ve sent her stuff on how it prevents so many diseases in later life.
Soliel - Wow, so my eating meat is going to cause all of us death by poisonous gas in 2 years? Not only that, but the scientists who do not support the global warming theory are likely in on something with industries in this country because all they care about is business over scientific integrity? You are starting to sound like a conspiracy theorist extraordinaire! What about scientists from other nations? Are they in cahoots with U.S. industry too?
I would also like to point out that you seem to be operating under the common misconception that anyone who does not support the theory of global warming thinks we should all just throw our garbage on the ground and pour chemicals straight into our streams. You know, yesterday I got bored so I decided to amuse myself by stepping outside and spraying aerosol cans at the sky. Bwah hah ha! There is something in between kneeling at the altar of environmentalism and stomping all over the earth. I am responsible when it comes to the earth, I just don’t put plants, soil, and animals ahead of humans.
Soliel (#65) - I don’t know your friends, but if they have actually stated that the only reason they don’t believe in man-made global warming is that they don’t like Gore, then they have not made an informed decision and are not representative of the majority of people on this site.
Also, I think your denial example could work both ways on this issue, because the way I see it, it is the environmental activists who time and time again have closed their eyes and put their fingers in their ears because they don’t like the scientific evidence that does not support their extremist claims.
Soliel, how old are you? Who’s filling your head with all those fears about deadly gases coming to get us? Stop listening to the environazis. Their goal is to substitute panic in place of your ability to use reason and logic.
soliel, some scientists? The un conference that decleared global warming undisputed fact” numbered 10,000 including staffers, from all arround the world. This conference excluded all those who disagreed. There was a petition just put out that had 31,000+ names of scientists who disagee. No staffers, from this country alone. If there is a concensus on the topic then it sure isn’t what you think it is. And if man is causing it, why are the other planets climates changing at about the same rate?
Soliel:
I’m glad you “revere” the Bible. If so, then I can deduce you’ve read and studied it and believe what it says. If so, then you know that this world will be totally consumed in the end and a new earth and a new heaven will replace it.
Pray tell. What is man going to do to change the climate? Mankind has not been able to control it ever despite his attempts.
I don’t believe mankind is the primary reason we’re expericencing natural, cyclical changes that have occured throughout time. Sure, conservation and avoiding wanton destruction of the environment is being a good steward of the earth we’ve been given to live on. But that isn’t the primary cause of the changes we’re seeing. I believe the Sun has a lot more to do with it than our SUVs; flatulence from cows; or koombyah campfires. Or, almost forgot the environmentalist terrorists that burn automobiles and homes to protest our destruction of the environment.
When Greenland turns green again, I might start worrying about Global Warming and I’m sure my worrying isn’t going to have an effect one way or the other.
What are you going to do in two years? That not very a very long time to save the planet.
Soleil, I guess my problem is that there are certain scientists and politicians kneeling at the “altar of Al Gore.” Where is the DEBATE? Where is the process of figuring out what the problem is and how we can help if we so choose? How come anyone who has evidence to dispute man-made global warming is immediately silenced and ostracized? That’s what bugs me so much. Speaking up when it comes to Iraq/Afganistan/the war on terror is “patriotic” but speaking out against global warming means you are a villian who hates earth and polar bears.
I consider myself more frugal than anything. I like to save - so yes, I have a few CFLs in my home in certain places. I use cloth bags at the store because I feel guilty throwing away huge bundles of plastic. We turn down our thermostat to SAVE MONEY on our gas bill. I take the bus to work to save gas. But those are our own individual choices. Once the government says, “global warming is real and you HAVE to do this” it pisses me off. Not because I don’t want to be inconvenienced but because I don’t want to be treated like a child by a government that can’t get 80% of what they do right.
Excellent post mom2jack.
We are looking at the glass half empty. How many times have conservatives lamented the exponential increase in government spending. How many conservatives have jeered at the parade of federally funded projects baring the name of some less then useless public official - can you say the Robert Byrd municipal turnpike and whoopie parlor.
Polar bear (and walrus) protection equals the general public gaining veto power over any future government project. Heck with the proper complaints filed with activist judges we can probably shutter existing government programs.
What are your priorities? Do you think that Bay Bridge retrofit is a worthless expenditure of State money and carbon credits? Do you think that your city council should be put on a strict “carbon diet”?
Let the tax and spend governments choke on EPA filings.
They created this legalistic nightmare, it’s up to us to make sure the full brunt lands on their heads first.
Who knows, after a few local pet projects (like that new basketball arena) are shot down cold, maybe it will be democratic legislator’s rediscovering scientific papers reasserting sunshine as the main cause of climate.
And we’ll be the ones waving their previous statements regarding the IPCC reports in their face.
BTW There was a climate report projecting cooling, commissioned by Enron, authored by James Hansen, and subsequently quashed by the company, because it ran counter to their plans to shut down the coal and oil industry with public sentiment. The reason they were pushing the climate change agenda? Enron was heavily invested in natural gas infrastructure. If someone could find that report it would out Hansen as the opportunistic vulture that he is.
Boy, you got that right kid!
You leftwing “deniers” wouldn’t acknowledge an actual, bona fide, fact, if it smacked you in the butt!
I noticed you didn’t answer my question as to why other planets in the solar system are also warming up. Does it hurt too much to admit that the one thing all the planets have in common is the Sun? Is it too hard to see that there most likely is a solar component to global climate change that trumps human activity?
Go munch on some seaweed and see if you can come up with another looney diatribe based on leftwing “denial” rather than actual science. I can’t wait.
BOB (#14) - You stole my thunder! I’m just glad someone else could see the issue. This Endangered Species stuff is a diversionary tactic.
DarthKeller (#29) - I haven’t been able to watch Deadliest Catch this season. I’m surprised the Discovery Network left that line in there during editing. If there’s anyone that knows about global warming firsthand, it’s those sailors.
I hate to jump on the bandwagon here, and I will try not to make this sound like an attack on a fellow MM reader. But Soliel — do not tell me to wake up. My eyes are wide open, and my head is sore from the beating alarmists have been inflicting on it. Global warming, global cooling, climate change, global change — the terms keep changing as much as the environment supposedly does. I’m not going to change your mind, so I won’t even try. (Mmm, change. Scrumptious, delicious change. Can you feel it?)
Going green is a cash cow right now. Prominent displays at bookstores and periodical/newspaper racks. Websites galore. News networks. Educational networks. Public television. DVDs. Even entertainment networks (NBC and FOX) and the most popular shows (American Idol). New industries in science, technology, government, education, and energy. Everyone that opens their mouth in public about the coming apocalypse has something to gain.
I recycle. That makes sense.
I turn my lights off when I leave the room. That saves me money. But I can’t stand the light CFLs produce, or the pause upon activation, or the mercury inside the bulbs of which I’m expected to take several miles away to properly dispose.
I try not to drive wastefully. That saves me money.
Let the market decide. We all want to be rid of oil dependency. We’ll have to sooner or later anyway, since we have only a finite amount of oil. Pollution is bad. We know. We got it. If this green movement has been good for anything, it’s made us more conscious of how much energy we waste. But so have oil prices and heating bills. If enough people put up a stink about certain things, some innovative person somewhere will think of a solution. I don’t want the government to force their solution upon us.
I like animals, too. They don’t condescend. They don’t judge. They don’t lecture. They don’t hate. I’m not a fan of furs for means of luxury. However, animals are on this earth for our benefit. Cows, pigs, chickens, foxes, minks, and so on will be around as long as we have a demand for them. They will not go extinct. As unpleasant as it is to kill an animal for the needs and wants of humans, it is often necessary. I believe that it should be done as humanely as possible. I admit that I can’t properly defend those who want fur coats for luxury. For those who need fur coats, though, that’s a different story.
True, species of animals go extinct, but new species are being discovered all the time. Cycle of life. Evolution. Pick your phrase. If the Democratic majority of Congress wants to add the walrus and the polar bear to the Endangered Species list, it will halt any debate on drilling for more oil. This is the strategy they and the environmentalists are using. Sympathy to create outrage. Pretty transparent manipulation.
When we are paying ten bucks a gallon in a few years, will most of us care about polar bears then?
The green philosophy is inescapable unless you spend all your time in a darkened home with no electricity. Any studies out there that tell us how many times per day or week the average person hears something about our collapsing environment? How many times do we hear the other side of the debate?
Oh, that’s right. The debate is over. It never was there to begin with. Except here. And here. And plenty of other places where no one wants to look.
Geez. Me and my big mouth. Maybe I should start my own blog, just so I can quit taking up so much space here.
Soliel,
I can’t help but take issue with a couple of things you’ve brought up.
One thing:
If the deadly gas (Methane) is coming up from the ocean floor, what exactly are we supposed to do about that? (sarc on) Burn it in our cigarette lighters? (sarc off)
For real, if the methane coming out of the ocean was enough to cause death beginning in two or even two hundred years we’d probably be choking already.
And anyway, I’ll repeat: what are we supposed to do about it?
The other thing is that you asked what global warming alarmists have to gain.
P-O-W-E-R. !
The power to regulate behavior that they do not agree with.
With government types, that is the function of government, in their eyes. Government always seeks more and more power for it’s own sake.
As for the weenies that want “green” legislation, they generally just want to participate in getting people to stop doing something they themselves don’t like or agree with.
Remember, most egg-heads think they know more and better than everyone else. In their minds, since they are obviously right about GW, we morons out here must bown down to their doctrine, regardless the efficacy of their information or beliefs.
Do I doubt Global Warming? Did it snow in Baghdad this year?
Everything my senses and common sense tells me is that GW is not real. Every time the temperature fails to support GW, the egg-heads come up with something more and more esoteric to confirm it is happenning. When that, too is challenged, they say we aren’t really smart enough to understand the science behind it.
As for the experts, every time someone on my side of this issue states something that makes sense and debunks GW, the GW worshippers say that expert is not to be believed.
Then why should we believe the “experts” that pitch GW?
Polar bears are doing fine.. don’t worry about them..
are you the type of person who has 80 cats in her home because ‘no one else can give them as good of a home as I’?
while living in 2 feet of cat pooh and smell of urine?
(from earlier)
that is complete BS.. if that was true,
1) island villages would be completely wiped out TODAY.. being in the ocean, they would get the effect of the Ferocious Atlantic Gas first. being a sort of canary in the coalmine..
2) for enough FAG to kill all life on earth in two years.. there would be nothing man can do.. that type of natural event, you are POWERLESS to stop.
3) Do you believe in mother Guia is in the depths, with her finger on the ‘execute’ button unless we stop driving the SUV?
did your sources ask you for money then they can stop the gases? Then you have to look for two more people to believe in the evil gas?
if that gas from the ocean thing is true, and I’m not saying that it’s not, then there is nothing you can do.. not even if everyone in the world stopped and dropped in some alki-seltzer in the ocean at once..
man could not stop that tidal wave in the Indian Ocean that happened.. mankind will not stop some earth altering event..
Check this out….
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/013117.html
Watch Penn and Teller manage to convince hundreds of leftists to sign a
petition to ban water.