What about Louis Farrahkan’s beloved Islam? Still taking Blacks as slaves. And Jeremiah Wright? Owns a big house and two Mercedes. Just think of the poverty he could eliminate by living a more humble lifestyle.

I really hate to see Catholic priest removed for a stance on politics because we need more priests.

Can’t Mr. Pfelger just simmer down? Because all of this mockery of Hilary and the idea it’s white people’s fault is sinful.

this is beyond ridiculous! now how am i going to convince my twenty something sons to go back to mass?
so much for moral authority……….

I am sorry to hear that you have this problem. One thing they should really consider is does not going to church and doing something else REALLY make you happy?

I’ve found out it doesn’t.

Secularism just doesn’t cut it.

Being vehemently opposed does not absolve the Republican party. There was vehement opposition to the free-soil and abolition movements, and that didn’t stop them 140 years ago. There was vehement opposition to the civil rights act and voting rights act. The fear of encountering vehement opposition isn’t an excuse for not doing anything.

I trust you aren’t laying all the blame for “vehement opposition” on the Republicans. History tells another tale.

All I’m asking is to know why I should expect the GOP to end abortion.

Given the current cast of rumpswabs, you may be right, but with the Democrats, you are GUARANTEED to get a prolongation/increase of abortion and so called abortion rights.

Whatever you wish to say about the Republicans, they did fight to get the partial birth abortion ban passed, and at least you stand the chance of a tinker’s damn in getting a half decent appointment to the Supreme Court, which will undoubtedly have greater and longer term consequences for abortion than otherwise.

Why do you think all the abortion enthusiasts are in the Democrat party?

If you are serious in your request for information, I would be happy to pull some things together.

Bruce is right about one thing – it was the Supreme Court that recognized abortion as a right, and absent a Constitutional Amendment or action at the state level, only the Supreme Court can reverse itself. Which is why a candidate’s views on Supreme Court nominees are critical in the upcoming election.

With that said, the issue is not a Republican versus Democrat issue. There are more than a few Democrats that are pro-life, and more than a few Republicans who are pro-choice. If I recall correctly, the 3 recent Congressional elections in which Republicans lost long held seats were won by pro-life and pro Second Amendment Democrats.

You will get no argument from me on the disappontment with the Republican Party. Core principles have been abandoned and there has been a decided shift from Conservative values. As for McCain, I am no fan of his by any stretch of the imagination. For me, the decision on whether to vote for him or stay home in November may just boil down to his position on nominees for the Supreme Court.

Like I said, if you are truly interested in some information, I will pull it together.

On May 31st, 2008 at 2:59 pm, Jim M. said:

Is there any reason not to believe what I’m saying? All you’re doing is accusing my of being delusional; this may be the case, but if it is, I would like some evidence to believe that I am. I’m too much of a Thomist to be biased in favor of presuming I’m delusional. Just let me know which claim is false:

1) Abortion is wrong.
2) Obama is pro-abortion, and on that point, is wrong.
3) The GOP has consistently claimed to be pro-life.
4) The GOP could’ve banned abortion, between 1/2005 and 1/2007 when they controlled Congress, the White House, maybe the Supreme Court, and the majority of state governor-ships.
5) The GOP didn’t ban or seriously restrict abortion, or even try very hard.
6) There’s no reason to believe that the next time they have power will be different from the last time.
7) There’s no reason to believe that the GOP is or will be de facto anti-abortion.

All I’m asking is to know why I should expect the GOP to end abortion. Please, give me a reason. I would be thrilled to be able to vote my conscience in November; as much as I disagree with the GOP on almost everything else, I wouldn’t hesitate to vote for them if I thought they’d end abortion. Give me some reason to believe. Please.

On May 31st, 2008 at 2:51 pm, jroberts said:

Like I said, perhaps if you repeat it to yourself enough you’ll eventually believe what you are saying. For the rest of us, it is an amazing and revealing look into delusional rationalization.

On May 31st, 2008 at 11:56 am, Jim M. said:

Being vehemently opposed does not absolve the Republican party. There was vehement opposition to the free-soil and abolition movements, and that didn’t stop them 140 years ago. There was vehement opposition to the civil rights act and voting rights act. The fear of encountering vehement opposition isn’t an excuse for not doing anything.

You still haven’t said why I should believe McCain and/or a 2008 GOP-majority will do anything. The fact is, I can’t possibly vote my conscience. If I believed it were at all likely that a Republican president would act on abortion, I wouldn’t even consider voting for a Democrat. I’m not trying to teach anyone a lesson, other than that if Republicans want pro-life they should act pro-life. You keep on reading things into my argument that aren’t there. I didn’t call Obama a good Christian, I’m not sacrificing any babies. I’m just saying that abortion is just as legal after 6 years of a Republican congress and White House as it was before.

I have no reason to think that if I vote for Obama, I’ll be helping to elect a pro-abortion candidate at the expense of a pro-life one. I have a lot of reason to think I’d be voting for an overtly pro-abortion candidate at the expense of a covertly pro-abortion candidate.

I don’t care about bogus accusations of moral equivalence, abandoning my convictions, etc. Just tell me why, given the GOP’s past conduct, I should believe that a vote for McCain is a vote to end abortion.

And I don’t care about the constitutional question. A Catholic isn’t a liberal or conservative Catholic based on questions of civil law but on questions of theology. The morality of abortion has absolutely nothing to do with its legality.

And what happened when the Republicans were successful in passing bans against partial birth abortions at the state level? The Democrats, including the purported Democratic nominee for president, threw every resource in their well funded arsenals to stop the ban of what is a heinous and barbaric procedure by any objective definition.

Yet, the “good Christians” seem only too willing to ignore Obama’s record on abortion (one of the few actual areas where a record exists of his views) for “the greater good”. What about his position on partial birth abortion?

If the Republicans did such a bad job on the issue, why have Democrats seized upon Republican efforts and accomplishments to garner support? And how on Earth does a person that claims to oppose abortion reconcile their support of Obama with the following communication (emphasis mine):

From: email-list@obamaforillinois.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 7:41 AM
Subject: A Message from Michelle Obama

February 17, 2004

Dear Friends:

We have all been concerned lately with the rise of conservatism in this country, especially as it relates to women. You’ve read the alarming news about the Justice Department’s request for hospitals to turn over the private medical records of dozens of patients. This cynical ploy is designed to intimidate a group of physicians and force them to drop their lawsuit seeking to have the so-called partial birth abortion ban ruled unconstitutional.

The fact remains, with no provision to protect the health of the mother, this ban on a legitimate medical procedure is clearly unconstitutional and must be overturned. Attorney General Ashcroft and president bush believe so zealously in their cause that the privacy rights of patients are under assault. They believe we have no federal right to privacy when it concerns our medical histories.

On March 16th, we have a chance to nominate a candidate who will be tireless in the fight to protect women. It isn’t simply about the right to choose, or privacy rights. It is about pay equity, about ending domestic violence, promoting health care around the world, and letting doctors decide treatment options, not federal judges.

It goes without saying that we must win back the U.S. Senate and hold our ground as a check against the right-wing executive branch. Illinois will be a key battleground and your vote is critical.

My husband has stood up for women time and again, and I am proud of his record. He understands that casting a vote on the floor of the Senate takes greater courage than issuing a position paper. Oftentimes, a well intentioned law is in fact a flawed law. That’s why it is critical we nominate someone who has faced these tough choices. That’s why nominating an experienced legislator is so important in this race. It takes courage to cast a vote.

Who among the Democrats running has a proven record? Who among the candidates running for the Senate in Illinois has stood up to the right wing politicians and voted against their agenda? Who can we count on to keep the Bush/Ashcroft team from appointing the Supreme Court Justice that will vote against Roe v. Wade?

Please join me in sending a message of unity and strength by attending the Women for Obama Luncheon on February 23rd at the Hyatt Regency. Lunch costs $150 and includes remarks from our friends the Reverend Willie Barrow and Congresswoman Jan Schakowsky. To reserve your seat please call the campaign office headquarters at 312-427-6400 or log on to the Obama for Illinois Website.

I urge you to stand with me and support my husband at this event. You know the stakes have never been higher and we can’t depend on untested amateurs and administrators in this fight. Barack is a fighter and he will be a champion we can be proud of.

Thanks you so much for all of your support.

Signature: Michelle Obama

It is disingenuous in the extreme for an abortion opponent to claim they are justified in supporting Obama, particularly in light of Obama’s record.