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» Turkeys on parade
One more reason bicycles on roads are a bad idea.
damn drunks.
OUCH
Just say no.
What time of day did this occur?
Rumors are that the driver claims to be an American … will be intereested in seeing how he gets treated compared to how the illegals from Mexico get treated here for the exact same drunk driving homicide incidents … anyone giving odds the two results will be worlds apart? …
I will never understand why drunk driving homicides aren’t treated as at least manslaughter.
A Virginia 17-yr-old was recently sentenced to 30 days in juvenile detention, despite being over 16, for killing a mother on the road in a drunk driving accident.
30 days! It’s sick.
Was exactly what I was going to comment DesertLover - somehow I can’t see Mexico letting him go back to the US to face no prosecution.
Crazy drunk drivers. It was funny the people on Fox had to stress the fact it was an American driver.
I agree Rusty. That kid should have been tried as an adult and given at least a manslaughter charge. I cant remember in the commonwealth if vehicular homicide would apply…but that kid should have had the book thrown at them, permanently had his license revoked, and been sentenced to 9,874,930,203,405 hours of community service working with accident victims or some other line of volunteer work.
fourstringfuror #1
and just where exactly are we supposed to ride bicycles????
Talk about a man bites dog story. A drunk American in Mexico has an accident? Wow. It only goes to show that it’s only news if it’s unusual. The usual drunk Mexican killing a few people on the street in San Antonio barely rates a column inch on the back page.
Wow Rusty, I was actually not aware that drunk driving homicides are not manslaughter. I always just assumed.
30 days is just not enough. I figure once a person is old enough to drive a car, they need to be considered old enough to accept the consequences of their actions behind the wheel.
This is obviously Bush’s fault, and doesn’t help the Obama kids.
#1…typical moto-meat-head sentiment.
…which is also part of the underlying pathology which leads to motorists consciously swerving towards cyclists. Been on the swerving end enough times to know…
…swervee…that is.
Another flipside…
Crickets.
Out drunks who kill people there should be treated harshly, just as their drunks who kill people here should be.
Drunks on the road are bad ideas. If a drunk bike rider hits me I like my chances of survival. Drunk drivers are killers. This driver needs some severe punishments.
Get used to the image…gas reaching $5+ a gallon and that’ll be just another rush-hour fenderbender.
Agreed.
Here in WI, a beloved school administrator - Jennifer Bukosky - along with her 10-year-old daughter and her unborn daughter were killed by a repeat offender who was arrested several times for driving under the influence of both drugs and alcohol.
Three lives ended after the driver plowed his Escalade into their little sedan. So tragic.
I believe *anyone* caught driving drunk (over the .8 or state specified limit) more than one time should lose their license permanently and be barred from owning a vehicle ever again. On top of jail time. Even if they cause no damage to property or persons.
I believe it’s because the justice system treats alcoholism as a disease, as oppose to a deliberate act, that people aren’t punished more severely.
Just to pile on…
The bikes aren’t the problem.
Well that looks like a daily drive in Orlando. Bad drivers who don’t give a damn about other people.
Unfortunately the lawmakers of our country have more “pressing issues” to deal with at the moment than bike laws and bike safety. And yes, I was actually told that by a state representative of mine. When I was struck by a stupid motorist (who was clearly at fault) all she got was a lame failure to yield on a right of way which amounted to no more than $70. Meanwhile, I had to be rushed to the hospital, go into the ER and all that “exciting” stuff, and then have follow up care. If there needs to be comprehensive reform on anything in this nation during rising gas prices, it’ll have to be laws regarding bikes. That’s one thing that we can actually look to Europe who sets the standard for us to follow.
If we had a national I.D. we’d know right off the bat if he is American. My bet, if he is, he’s an anchor baby.
Umm…what? Being bigger and having a motor doesn’t make you more entitled to locomotion. Check your local laws and you’ll find that when a bicycle is forced to ride on a city street (usually because community planning neglected to take into account modes of transport other than automobiles), they are legally treated as an automobile. Therefore, this drunk plowed into–in the eyes of the law–multiple automobiles and their drivers.
It’s a sad thing that there’s another reason for this.
There are a few things that could help: more bike lanes, fewer driver’s licenses for drunks, you know, nothing special…nice to see this drunk plowed into a friggin’ RACE, too. He didn’t hit a random pair of guys out on a cardio ride. He hit an ORGANIZED group of cyclists. LAY OFF THE DAMN BOTTLE, BUTTNUT.
When a drunk driver kills someone, why isn’t it considered premeditated murder? They knew they were impaired when they got behind the wheel of the vehicle but made the choice to drive anyway. Next choice should be between lethal injection or the electric chair.
If killing someone while driving drunk is manslaughter, what is driving drunk without killing anyone? How about attempted manslaughter?
I thought some of the crashes I used to see on OLN during the Giro de Italia or the Tour de France turned my stomach until I looked at this. I got into road bicycle racing when station in Colorado Springs before I retired and survived a couple of pile ups myself. No broken bones but plenty of road rash scars. Worst crash was on Father’s Day 2000 going 30 miles an hour in a pace line. Ouch! Somehow rode the bike home a bloody mess while the couple trying to escort me back to the house had a rough time keeping up. Adrenaline can be a wonderful thing. My last week in uniform was spent limping around the Squadron with a large bandage on my left hip and shoulder. My helmet saved my life, which I have kept along with the torn up jersey as a reminder to always wear my helmet.
I almost suffered the same fate from a drunk Mexican driver of questionable citizenship in Idaho two summers ago. I could feel the side of his car brush against my left leg and as he finally cleared me he locked up his brakes lost control of his vehicle and ended up almost flipping it in the desert. By then I was already on the phone calling 911. Needless to say it shook me up pretty good and I am still hesitant to ride. I actually feel safer riding on I-84 than on the surface roads. At least on the interstate I have a much larger shoulder and actually get a bit of a draft from the truckers when they pass me.
I agree.
While still getting embassy or consulate access, of course.
I read a report that it was cocaine, not alcohol. So, everything I said about drunk drivers, please apply it to stoned drivers as well.
#28………duly noted.
Leave it to the resident idiot to come up with something stupid.
To answer your question (as if you wanted an answer), driving while under the influence should be attempted murder and killing someone should be murder 1st degree as it is premeditated. Killing someone while impaired is premeditated by definition. If you do not know by now that you are a danger to everyone on the road while impaired, you should not be driving in the first place. Driving is dangerous on a good day sober.
Okay lgm, now defend your statement with the jails would be overcrowded.
This just illustrates why it is so important for Mexico to build a fence to keep these drunken, probably illegal, Americans off their roads.
As someone who lost 3 friends when I was 10 years old to a drunk driver, this makes me so disgusted and sick and sad for the family of the man who was killed.
At the risk of sounding like lgm…
2004 US Auto Fatalities -
Sober = 25,636
Alcohol Related = 17,000
I’m not here to defend the drunks, but the tee-totlers seem to still have a leg up on auto fatality rates in America.
I guess Mothers Against Sober Drivers doesn’t have as much pull as their sister organization.
I may be alone in this thought, but I think that all states should lower their DUI limits. This .8 is ridiculous. And there should be harsher punishments.
That about covers it.
Mexico has a Bagdad Beach? Who knew? What else are they keeping from us? The Mosul Mercado? A Rio Euphrates?
Brian, now compare how many people drive sober and how many people drive drunk. I get the feeling you just posted those numbers to get a reaction.
Mommie, I appreciate the sentiment, but .08 is as low as the blood alcohol limit ever should be. .08 is not intoxicated and you don’t want to start apprehending people who just had two glasses of wine at dinner.
That being said, if someone is driving erratically and they blow a .07 or something like that, I think a DWI charge should be applicable.
¿Que? Drunk and sleeping? Was he on a one-man mission to confirm every negative stereotype or was he part of some international drunk driver exchange program?
#37 rusty said:
I totally agree…per capita and all. Driving drunk is the issue, and seeing the drinking practices in US restaurants, stadiums, etc., I personally believe that there are more inebriated drivers on the roads everyday then we currently assume.
My pet peeve (I have never lost a loved one to a drunk driver) is the level of reckless driving in the Northeast corridor, period. Driving 90 mph + on I-95, changing lanes without blinkers while leaving a daredevil’s space between bumpers, seems to be an increasing hobby amongst younger drivers. I’ve nearly been killed on the receiving end by this quite a few times over the past 10 years.
17,000 drunk fatalities a year is unacceptable. The 25,000 sober fatalities per year also jumped out at me as well.
Like I said, I may be alone with that thought. I just think that anyone that gets behind the wheel after ANY drink, even if it’s only one, is a complete fool. But that’s just me. If anyone MUST drink, then they need to do it when they know they won’t be back on the road or have a designated driver. Harsher punishments MAY lead to more responisible thinking.
And I swear I’m not a liberal! This is just a sensitive topic for me. I knew a friends grandmother that was killed by a 26 year old girl after having 2 margaritas at a resturant. It may not have all been the alcohol, but it was a contributing factor. My friends grandfather held his wife while she died. This may have not happened if she would have waited a half hour, maybe an hour before leaving to go home. Many people just don’t think after they drink. Many people don’t think after getting behind the wheel period. This is just one thing that pisses me off about drivers.
Lame post fourstring…thanks for the rebuttal Cosmo.
soap, I take your point from sort of an emotional perspective, but 1st degree murder requires a level of intent that just isn’t going to exist in a drunk driving death. Theoretically, I guess I could envision a scenario whereby there was a degree of recklessness that would justify a 2nd degree murder charge, but that would be a pretty rare case. What you generally see is something called “vehicular manslaughter” which is sort of a lesser version of a regular manslaughter charge.
Dang. Public transit is dirty, slow, dangerous for passengers and dangerous to cyclists.
get caught driving drunk…the police should confiscate the vehicle…does not matter who owns it…unless stolen. Anyone with a drinking problem should never have access to a vehicle.
Playa Bagdad is located at the SE mouth of the Rio Bravo. Badgdad was once a thriving port in that location. Covered it in my Texas history class.
Your point being? ALL of those 17,000 drunk related fatalities are preventable. I does no good to simply dismiss them and point the finger at those who aren’t drunk and say shame on you.
And therein lies the problem. When I lived in Salt Lake, I had a neighbor that had a habit of drunk driving. And when his license was revoked, he just drove without a license. When I asked why they didn’t take his vehicle, I was told that because it was jointly owned by his wife, they couldn’t take it.
And one time some idiot judge gave him a limited license to commute to work and back. Which just happend to have a couple of bars in between.
I’ve never heard if he killed someone (or himself), but it’s just a matter of time.
It needs to be treated as a deliberate criminal act and not an illness with sever enforcement before it will be stopped.
Ah BS. I totally agree with Rusty on this one. There is such a thing as taking something too far. I also don’t think we should be jailing somone b/c they had a glass of wine at dinner, weren’t driving erratically but was pulled over for a brake light out. This is not a totalitarian state yet, although I see many here beleive it shoudl be. Personal responsibility is what freedom is all about. Geeesh. “Take their car”! “Throw anyone who drinks a beer in jail”.
Just to pile on fourstringfuror…I know that kind of comment passes for humor in some quarters, but it’s part of a national problem of “biker bullying” that leads to motorists behaving VERY badly. I ride 150 miles a week, and just about every day, someone screams at me to “get on the f…ing sidewalk,” and this on lightly traveled four lanes, not during rush hour, in a college town! I can’t tell you how many times cars come by me at 60 or 70 miles an hour, squeezing between me and an oncoming car. Something about that cyclist on their dinky little conveyance brings out the latent bully in a lot of people in cars. What happened to these poor guys is awful…if some drunk had plowed into church picnic, I wonder if fourstring would have found so much room for ironic commentary.
#45 Rolsskk said:
There is a lot of reckless driving out there, alcohol related and sober related.
I don’t. Part of what you quoted from me includes the qualifier, “I’m not here to defend the drunks.”
In addition, my response to rusty, 42 minutes before your comment, also included the following sentiments: “Driving drunk is the issue, and seeing the drinking practices in US restaurants, stadiums, etc., I personally believe that there are more inebriated drivers on the roads everyday then we currently assume,” and “17,000 drunk fatalities a year is unacceptable.”
Rolssk, I feel that you have misrepresented my comments. To be clear, drunk driving is irresponsible and avoidable, as are other forms of reckless driving - like speeding and weaving between lanes without signaling.
#47 Weary Citizen said:
You bring up an interesting point regarding personal responsibility and overreaction.
Like it or not, as groups like MADD keep pushing up penalties for alcohol related incidents, municipalities benefit financially, and I have seen some interesting policing in NJ.
Along the Jersey shore, bar patrons have reported undistinguished lines that cops monitor. One foot over while holding a container results in a “public intoxication” charge, leading to increasing fines and court costs.
Where I used to work, “connected” individuals used to sell “support your local police” cards for certain towns in NJ. It was explained to me that by flashing this purchased card during a pull over, the officer would immediately understand that the card holder “never drinks and drives.”
I’ve also heard accounts of police in NJ targeting lone drivers leaving bars and restaurants with the usual, “eyes appeared bloodshot, speech was slurred and the faint odor of alcohol was detected” as cause for a stop, rather than erratic driving.
An ounce of prevention can beat a pound of cure, however from what I’ve seen and heard, municipalities have been known to take things too far sometimes.
Bingo. Like you, I am not defending the drunks who are endangering others. They need to be taken off the streets. But I do not support draconian measures of Big Brother as others espouse either. And what gets me is how the incrementality of that thinking takes more and more liberties away. MADD set out wiht a noble cause. But now is in a never ending push for more and more. Even if we gave them zero tolerance (like in most of Europe now), they would set their sites on mandatory decade sentences or some other ridiculous punishment. The org now survives just to survive. The guys at the top don’t want the gravy train to end so they continue to push for more and more. Hmmmm, sounds a lot like the race hustlers we are always complaining about. I read where the founder left b/c the organization was pushing for such drastic actions. With liberty and freedom comes responsibility. Some people are going to make bad decisions. But this is why we have law enforcement. I don’t want a nanny state regulating every single thing I do. All “for my own good”. Common sense must come in to play. Sometimes we must accept the good wiht the bad to preserve our freedoms which are slowly being taken from us.
dakine,
You are taking the law as it applies and there is no argument there. No, I was not being emotional. There is intent (although it may not be the law) to do harm every time a driver drives impaired. No, 1st degree will not hold water - but it should. A car is every bit as dangerous as a gun when not used properly. The use of a gun to kill someone must be premeditated for 1st degree murder (except NY if you kill a police officer - as I understand it). I must believe that a person who is impaired makes a decision to harm others when they get behind a wheel. To plead ignorance to this is acceptable and will get you off of 1st degree (or even 2nd degree) murder. Vehicular homicide is a joke when the person knows they are impaired 9or a repeat offender). Law or not, that to me it is premeditation - IMHO.
And in other news from the weekend, two 17 year old bicyclists were killed in separate incidents Saturday night. The incidents happened in Brooksville (just north of Tampa), an hour and several miles apart.
One of the drivers apprehended has a long string of arrests in Hernando County.
Hopefully they will throw Salvato under the jail this time.
http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/accidents/article581789.ece
With the rising costs of gas and the ongoing “global warming” hysteria making bike transportation more appealing, I’m guessing bike injuries & deaths will be on the rise. Maybe then it will become a “more pressing issue” for our lawmakers to deal with, but I doubt it.
Fair enough soap…I take your point.
Michelle, wasn’t this story on any other sites?? cnn ew.