More stirrings of life in the Church of England?
Back here I’d noted the bold (and I use that term advisedly–it is bold, though it shouldn’t be) assertion of CoE Bishop Michael Nazir-Ali that it was actually okay for Christians to proselytize–even to Muslims. Official CoE spokesmen took a different line, pointing out that that wouldn’t be quite consistent with the CoE’s highest scriptural authority: the European Convention on Human Rights.
I still don’t think all is lost with the Anglicans. Today the Times of London announces a forthcoming report from the Anglican leadership that smacks the militant secularism and “religious illiteracy” of the Blair-Brown government.
There are things worse than militant secularism:
The report, commissioned for the Church of England and to be published on Monday, accuses the Government of discriminating against the Christian Churches in favour of other faiths, including Islam….
The authors find evidence of deep-seated hostility to the Church in particular, excluding it from important areas of policy and research – despite Mr Blair being one of the most devout prime ministers of the past century. They portray a Government committed to research into Muslim communities but barely interested in Christian involvement in Britain’s civic and charitable life.
Some of their proposals–a “minister for religion”–strike me as useless make-work. But one of the most radical reformation they propose is a return to the Church as the center of “social and welfare provision”. Instead of the leviathan state? God bless you, bishops, but the state isn’t getting out of that business without a fight.
And it’s England, so the state has all the guns…
_________
{Post by See-Dubya}
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Categories: Islam, Political Correctness
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It’s a sad state of affairs. The majority tackled to the ground by the minority, in favor of equal rights. Islam is not about equal rights. It’s about submission. The government is even submitting to their cause. When you take from the many and give to the few, it causes nothing but anger and frustration. When did Christianity suddenly become a fad that could be thrown away or replaced by something new. It seems it’s happening everywhere. When I was in London, the slang term for the city was Londonistan. I guess there’s some truth in that after all.
I wish I could get excited/hopeful about this but I really can’t. What part of “Anglican Church subsidized by the State” don’t people understand? Or putting it thusly — what part of the implications of that fact don’t people understand?
For one thing, it won’t be too long before that government loot goes to the Islamites. Too bad, but it’s going to happen.
For another, subsidies kill innovation — and the Anglican Church needs as much innovation as it can generate. Too bad, but it’s not going to happen.
The Islamites, of course, have a long standing tradition of keeping the State in their pocket and are not about to change any aspect of what is becoming the world’s most successful and powerful religion. Ask the Archbishop of Canterbury, who should have been removed by the Queen after his acceptance of Sharia Law as inevitable, but of course he wasn’t.
The problem, as always, is Liberalism.
The Brits have a history of allowing a Liberal Government to screw up thier country and then they elect a Conservative Govt. in a landslide. Then, when the Conservatives have fixed what the Liberals messed up, the Brits screw the Conservative over and elect more liberals. Chamberlain/Churchill, Wilson/Thatcher, after Blair sided with, Gasp, a Republican, they screwed him too. Now Brown has a party and country he can’t control.
Liberalism is the church of victimization. You are no one until you are a victim. The CoE can’t be looked at as a Victim or a Victimizer so the Libs can do nothing but condemn it indirectly. They do this by making Islam and Buddhism the Left’s religion of choice.
Doesn’t it sound like California?
Sounds like America
David Cameron of the Conservatives will easily win the next election…. especially as Labour and Gordon Brown are doing such a horrible job.
Oh give me a break… Is Buddhism a target now too? Mind you, those Buddhists can be really mean with their peaceful ways and live and let live attitudes…
Now if that proposal were made by an Imam on behalf of and for the Islamic faith, it would be a totally different thing and no doubt welcomed with open arms as a bold and progressive proposal of unity between muslims and
the non-muslim scum they want to killthe British Empire..Numbers don’t lie. Britain is getting ready to be part of the Ummah.
This story has to be the second depressing thing besides Hillary’s speech of the day. The Church of England should be more concerned about its deteriorating number of congregants, not how the government is supposedly against Muslims.
It really is an oxymoron when one’s own Church of England wants “fair treatment” for Muslims. Just gives you a joyful feeling inside, you know?
The BIBLE or PC
Which will it be?
CoE………
I was right.. You are British.
Sorry,
Couldn’t help it.
Buddhism and Islam aren’t “Targets” Sausage. They are a means to an end. By creating an environment where Christianity is treated like an evil cult and Islam and Buddhism are lauded as Religions of Peace (a true label in the case of Buddhism, not trying to libel them) and are waited upon hand and foot by governments that have no reason to do so, Governments create a passive aggressive atmosphere for the faith of the majority of it’s own constituents (sorry for the run on sentence but.. here we are).
This is exactly what the British Government has done and the US Government is in the process of doing. Even the current administration kisses the butt of every non-Christian faith group to the exclusion of, once again, the majority of the population.
Your last statement is typical of Liberals - take anything out of context and complain that it is an attack. However, look at where a strict adherance to Buddhism got Tibet. South Vietnam? Cambodia? Chinese Nationalists? It was that very peaceful attitude that got them destroyed. What you will never understand Sausage is that this is a fight for our very existance. If Islam has it’s way, the United States will cease to exist. Those of us who give a damn intend to ensure the US’ existance.
You are right that the pattern I mentionede could be compared to the eentire US. The difference is that our Country as a whole is devided neatly down the middle between those of us who use reason in our politics and those that vote by the passion they feel after watching propaganda by the left. CCalifornia, on the other hand, follows the British example of destroying itself through Liberalism and then begging a Conservative to clean up the mess.
Blair and Brown are Liberals. Blair was actually doing a pretty good job fiscally until the UK crusified him for doing the right thing and siding with the US. I don’t understand the loathing the UK has for the US. We don’t consider you the 51st state (I’ve heard that one enough).
I’m sure you will find something in this tirade to take out of context. It’s OK, I’m used to it. But please, please don’t call me a dirty name. It seems the only way Liberals can get on top of a debate when facts are on display.
Have a great evening.
If you’re a white Western liberal who likes self-loathing by portraying the white race and Christianity (in liberals’ view, the white man’s religion) as inferior so that you’ll get a slap on the back from gays and people with darker skin color….
It’s a BLAST!!!
Of course, it’s probably hard for some UK citizens to see their culture evaporate before their very eyes. I guess some other folks think that the British influence was just going to removed from after colonialism, and that’s the extent of it.
They probably never thought that it would come back to the UK itself.
Make no mistake, Islam wants to rule the world. The LGM’s of this world don’t want to see that.
Tell that to the people of Tibet who had their tongues cut out for disobedience.
The reason why Islam gets so much criticism is because it wants to rule the world and will blow up innocent people to do it.
The so-called moderates of Islam simply do not follow the Koran to the letter, or they don’t about the violent teachings.
That is hard to believe, since there have been over 11,000 terror attacks by Muslims since 9-11.
I think you are being delusional if you think Christianity is being treated like an evil cult over there. Seriously.
Your reply was typical of a far right Conservative - you make a comment and then cannot understand why someone has pulled you up on it.
I thought it was funny how you mentioned big bad Buddhism like it was something to worry about.
Is it because they are not saved?
I’m sure your armchair is ready for battle.
The US will continue to exist… people who refuse to embrace other cultures, races and religions will continue to feel threatened, scared and grab onto their guns and Bibles (Wait a minute - who said that?)
I mean, the fact you typed it MUST mean you believe it… do you really, really think life is so black and white? That is kind of scary. But then again…
The “UK” - again, you are using that massive brush stroke….. the UK is a whole load of people, each with their own views… shades of grey my friend, shades of grey.
I do hope you’re not playing the victim now….
Have a smashing evening!
There is a great section on Islam in the Museum of Natural History. Simply put Islam considers itself a superior religion and will stop at nothing in its conquests; nothing has changed since ancient times. The Crusades and the Renaissance is what saved Western Civilization we may need something comparable to it now to save our skins.
Amen
I never said Buddhism was bad. Just that Liberals try to push it on the rest of us. I don’t fight our threats in an armchair. I carry a gun every day. Even have a couple of scars to prove it.
I’m not Born Again. Actually, haven’t been to Church since I was 10 (not counting trips to Cathedrals and the Vatican to look at art and history).
This isn’t about being threatened or feeling vulnerable (only Libs do that). It’s about thinking rationaly (Libs never do that).
To prove my point about the devide in the US, look at national election returns for almost all elections since Regan left office. It is black and white. A handful of votes decide almost every presidential election. Statistics don’t lie.
Lastly, I know it’s not all of the UK. However, it certainly appears that way when I watch BBC. Even Jeremy Clarkson hates us. Why? OK, US cars generally have been crap.. I will give him that. CNN protrays the USA in a way that is completely skewed from reality. Possibly BBC does the same for the UK.
To prove that point, why don’t you explain the Cockney rhyming slang currently in use for Americans: “Septics”.
If you can’t, I will be happy to. Heard it used on various BBC stations many times now.
BTW, the Police Officer who pulled the terrorist scum in Glasgow is a true hero. Thank God not everyone in the world believes the spew that BBC puts out.
Nice debating you. Difficult to find a Lib who can argue rationally.
My compliments.
Sausage:
I bit typical on your part to think that the US isn’t threatened, huh?
For someone who says another poster is observing in black and white you’re not looking at the big picture either.
And for you to say that our country isn’t divided? C’mon now you’re really not living in the same world the rest of us are, are you?
Then again, to see gray is to also acknowledge that, yes, there is no good vs. evil, no right and wrong that looking the other way is the preferred choice, isn’t it?
Personally, I would rather live in a neighborhood of Buddhists than a neighborhood of Moslems; if those were the 2 choices. Slowly and surely, the Islamic religion is gaining control in Europe. No bombs or wars are needed; just time and PC. Already, governments are bowing to the demands of this religion. All in the hope that they won’t get upset. Boy, things sure have changed since I went to school there.
In Western society when a male threatens to kill his female partner if she doesn’t do as he demands, it is deemed a criminal act, and he is viewed as a sociopath and she a victim, quite rightly. Yet it seems for many of the very same people in Western society that when a muslim threatens to kill all non-muslims if they do not convert, they are treated as the victims, and non-muslims as the intolerant sociopaths. Irony - and that doesn’t even address the fact that these same people are also on the muslim’s death list.
Maybe it’s time for a new New Testament.. where the hard line is that all must be Christian or die. I wonder how well that would be received by these same frigging idiots who are making so many allowances for the intolerant hate-mongering blood-thirsty muslims.
Sure, it’s ‘just’ the muslim extremists at the moment, but the non-extremists aren’t exactly clamoring to condemn it are they..
NYC123ME,
That is what I have been saying all along.. Not all Muslims are Terrorists but they sure as hell don’t condemn those that are. If a Christian is a murderer, other Christians decry it to the point that most Christians clamor for the Death Penalty. But Islamists do a heinous act and Islam sits on it’s hands..
I remember that on 9/11, there was a community of Muslims in New Jersey that were dancing in the streets while you could see the smoke of the WTC behind them. Of course, the MSM decided to bury the story because the “Religion of Peace” couldn’t be depicted in a bad light.
ctdavis:
Why do they hate us?
1. They have become socialist sheeple who hate anything and anyone who still “clings” to rugged individualism, capitalism, Christianity, and patriotism.
2. Like other Euros, they bite the hand that feeds them. They resent the fact that American military might has protected them - God forbid any sense of gratitude to those men who died on D-Day. Their hatred and envy of our power has poisoned their hearts.
3. They have lost their national pride, and hate Americans who still have theirs.
4. They are a sinking ship and want to take us down with them. Why do you think they want Obama to win?
Europeans remind me of mad Captain Ahab from Moby Dick. America is the great white whale and Ahab’s poisonous hatred and pursuit to kill the whale destroys the ship he captained.
“… to the last I grapple with thee; from hell’s heart I stab at thee; for hate’s sake I spit my last breath at thee. Sink all coffins and hearses to one common pool! And since neither can be mine then let me then tow to pieces, while still chasing thee, while still tied to thee, thou damned whale!”
Visting Britain a few years ago I did meet some Christians. Talking to them I found that to announce you are a Christian can be risky and not just from the muzzies. British secularist are down right rude to them and will do whatever they can to harass them. Most of the British Christians I met are either no longer or were never CoE though there is a Free Anglican movement they told me about. They are good people willing to give up the big cathedrals and state subsidies. Souls are longer lasting.
As far as the muslims, if Christians don’t carry the message to them we seal there fate. But I do know very few missions to the muslims are effective.
Strangely enough, after writing that, I recall that the only survivor on Ahab’s ship was a sailor named:
“Ishmael”.
How ironic.
atheling,
I live amongst them, your comments are absolutely correct.
My Brother is not a fan of the French. I can’t repeat his comments on this blog because we are, after all, civilized.
However, I have a new respect for them. Sure, they hate us and are Ingrates for it (double ingrates actually). But at least they have the guts to come out and say it directly. They don’t hide behind a “special” relationship.
We already do, as I’m sure you know Christians believe that if you are not reborn in Christ that you will not have the privlege of existence. We care more about the promise of everlasting life than killing those who don’t believe. I think God was serious when he said “THOU SHALT NOT MURDER”, I will leave it to God to decide if they will live or die.
Don’t get me wrong I understand your frustration I myself have advocated another crusade.
ct davis:
Yeah, they might come straight out and say it, but if we say something in return they get all haughty and start the name calling.
I have no respect for them. These spineless, dhimmified people are not the same people who fought WWII bravely and had a sense of honor, decency and loyalty.
They are a pretentious bunch of quislings and backstabbers. They come over here to make money, while mocking our society and culture. I find those particular leeches the most loathesome.
Frankly, when Europe dies and if I’m still around, I’ll clap at the wake.
Of course it is divided… in many different ways..cut and sliced in a variety of shapes…just not a single “left” or “right”
I do hope the UK Conservative party doesn’t remove me from their organisation when they find out that I have been classed as a Liberal
The problem is - there are very few absolute truths when it comes to politics and religion.. you should know that by now
Just the rednecks….
Give me a redneck American anyday over a girlyman Euro.
I am proudly a redneck.
Born and bred in Georgia.
That sounds like a racist comment..
See how it feels?
I own a 4 wheel drive, lots of guns and I enjoy hunting animals. I eat them afterwards and I’m happy.. Nervous yet?
If you are a Conservative, the Conservatives have issues.
Further proving all of my points BTW..
Also,
My parents live in the Wonderful state of Alabama. Fantastic place. Of course, UGA should always beat Aubern at Football (that’s real Football for my European friends) but it is still a wonderful place.
What Clarkson did for this stunt was just plain stupid.
Still awaiting the definition of “Septic”.
Are you willing to show how much you dislike us?
The Conservative party in the UK are socialists. They are not like American conservatives.
Of course there are more practicing muslims that christians. Christian have free will to attend church or not and to change religions. Muslims are required to remain muslim. They have more wives and children too. So what they can’t conquer, they will bury with over population. It does amaze me that people who pray 5 times a day have such hatred for themselves and the rest of us.
On June 7th, 2008 at 3:28 pm, sausage said:
Sausage,
I want people who come to live in my country, the U.S., to embrace MY culture. The U.S. will NOT continue to exist if everyone here thinks like you, sitting around contemplating whether good and evil exists, sniping at those who would defend this country, eradicating everything that made this nation great. You’re right, I do feel threatened, and I will use my guns, if need be. I want my sons and every citizen in our nation to enjoy the fruits of a prosperous and good USA. There are enemies in other countries and even here who are working diligently to take away our liberty and destroy our nation. We can’t defend against those enemies unless we recognize who we are (our cultural identity) and who they are (their cultural identity), and we must analyze their strategy and work to defeat it.
I guess most people in the UK don’t care if their culture is overrun by the Islamists. I’ve got to believe that there are some over there that do care. Sausage, I sincerely hope that you are playing devil’s-advocate. If not, I urge you to consider my words (and others’ on this thread). Not trying to get the best of you on this thread but am trying to warn you out of concern and dismay at what is happening in the UK (and Europe, in general). The fight between Islam and the West is real and is centuries long. Please act before it is too late!
Part of the chorus from Jonathan Coultons “Over there”, available to see on YouTube:
“Over there, you’ll never feel at ease cause there’s not much soap and there’s too much cheese,
And people all wear clogs and ride on trains-
Over there they’ll make you regret that you ever saved their a**es in world war two- don’t make me go over there!”
It is only when one accepts that as a fact that one can discern the myriad shades of grey betwixt the two. Bob’s your uncle.
It is scary sometimes. But, conversely, it is just as often gratefully encouraging.
sausage: better grow a beard, or buy a burkha, depending upon your sex. Europe will become part of the caliphate. Do you think its a coincidence that the anti-christ will beahead those who refuse to bow down?
Christianity needs people like Charles (the hammer) Martel, but unfortunately, people like him are not around. Comes with living in Laodicea.
Old Sausage, spewing the remarks of his Messiah. Unfortunately, the country as we know it is about to change for the worse. Sorry, you’re threatened by people who go to actual churches and not to the church of the enviro weenies.
Last trip to Iraq hubby got friendly with some Brit Army Officers who were looking into doing some joint assignments with their fellow brothers and sisters in the US Army. One of the guys actually is at Fort Campbell now and they are loving it. He writes to my husband that the England he knew is not the England that his kids are growing up in. Heck, they want to stay here and not go back in two years.
But maybe they’re just “clingers” too huh?
Just for anyone who was wondering,
Apparantly, Sausage wasn’t willing to tell us the meaning of the term “Septics”.
I have been hearing it for a few years now. First from the host of the highest rated show in Britain, “Top Gear” and then regularly from Brits and on BBC. “Septic” is currently the way that Brits refer to Americans in Cockney Rhyming Slang..
You see, “Septic” goes with “Tank” which rhymes with “Yank” and they all think it’s just soooooo damn funny.
The thing that is really funny is that we don’t really care.
Remember that the next time you hear about our “special” relationship on CNN.
An old Diplomat once said to me, “It’s easy to hate the French. You aren’t a Pro ’till you hate the British.”
Oh, I get it… Let’s see…
How about “Stupid” for Brit, cuz Brit rhymes with “twit”, and we all know that “stupid” belongs with “twit”…
There is an American group of Christians who are trying to rekindle the fires of Christianity in EU. I’ve sent this link to a member in hopes that they can use this as a building block in their efforts to build a network of Christians in Europe.
As a final thought, I just can’t help it..
There is no “U” in Labor or Color.
One goes to “The” Hospital.
Sorry. It is petty I admit.
True nonetheless.
My standard default answer to Brits:
“That I why I am a citizen & you are a subject”
The truth hurts, a lot.
Yeah - being a language-linguistics buff I was aware of that.
But thanks to America at least we are spared from hearing them trying to concoct silly rhymes in Low German!
Even then, there are still many a fine and brave Tommys left in this world. (Or perhaps that should be “right in the world.”) Though their heroic stances against such things as the ongoing onslaught of Sharia in the UK is hated by some of their fellow subjects.
The intrusion of Islam into British life may be far deeper. Muslims believe Charles is one of them.
http://deathby1000papercuts.blogspot.com/search?q=Prince+Charles
At it’s roots, Islam is divided into “Dar Al-Islam” (World Of Islam) and “Dar Al-Harb” (World Of War): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EScgZ4yxUOo
Thanks to the president/commander-in-chief, here is the first defeat: http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/09/20010917-11.html
There’s still Brits in Britain? I thought that country didn’t exist anymore.
A significant theme in this thread is the absolute decadence of the English church. Any institution of which Prince “religion of global warming” Charles is the head is not likely to garner many converts.
Maybe the government should finally cut the Church loose after 450 years and force competition.
And may the best church win.
OK..I really had an internal debate as to responding to this thread….the prevalent thought seems to be that “we are better because we are right thinking”
Seems to me like an institutional effort to put the same citizens of a country against each other so that the furor creates deadlock and nullifies any creative debate.
Frankly?….if any state can instigate devisiveness among it’s own citizens it avoids scrutiny as to the real world effects of it’s policies…
It’s the old “bait and switch”…
sausage,
Why on earth would you use the word “target?”
If someone claims (rightly or wrongly) that another religion is receiving unfair preference by a government, then you consider this to be TARGETING a religion?????
Very poor word choice, sausage. I think you should clarify what you meant.
Here’s some madness from the People’s Republic of Montgomerystan County:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,364362,00.html
On June 7th, 2008 at 5:06 pm, sausage said:
Unfortunately, there is one flaw with your argument: it only applies to non Muslims. Muslims clearly and absolutely believe there is a black and white division, them against us, believer vs. infidel. No gray areas here. Well, maybe the lower class dhimmis, but that sucks too.
When you get Islamists and Islamofascists to believe in gray areas, tolerant and accepting of non Muslims, give us a call.
When the phone don’t ring, it’ll be you.
Sorry about the double quote!