The “grumpy Republican” problem; Update: E-mail from a Texas GOP convention attendee
Scroll down for updates…e-mail from Texas GOP convention attendee…
The Texas GOP convened its party convention this week. It’s finding the same problem plaguing the party in other states and at the national level: Disgruntled grass-roots.
The Houston Chronicle quotes GOP officials calling disatisfied conservatives “grumpy” and “grouchy.” These leaders seem to believe the grass-roots have left them. Reality check: It’s the other way around. From the piece:
After a decade of political dominance, the Texas GOP is opening its party convention in Houston this week with a troubling prospect: Grumpy Republicans may not turn out to vote this fall.
Many of the grass-roots Texas Republicans see presumptive presidential nominee John McCain as not conservative enough. Others still support presidential candidate Ron Paul. Some are unhappy over immigration, high federal spending, a sagging national economy and rising gasoline prices.
“A lot of them, and rightly so in many cases, are mad. They’re concerned,” said Roger Williams, chairman of the Texas GOP’s voter turnout efforts this year. “What we’ve got to do is alleviate those concerns and get them to vote.”
…Republican pollster Mike Baselice said half the Republican voters in Texas say the state and nation are on the “wrong track.” He calls them “grumpy Republicans” who cannot be counted on to turn out to vote against presumptive Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama.
“I’m concerned about the wrong-track Republicans opting not to vote,” Baselice said.
Baselice said Republicans in 2002 had a 6 percentage point advantage in Dallas County voting and an 8 percentage point advantage in Harris County. He said neither party now has an advantage in Dallas, and the GOP holds an advantage of about 1.5 percentage points in Harris County.
He said that partisan shift could give Democrats a great boost if a large percentage of Republicans don’t vote.
Baselice said Republicans who vote can be counted on to vote up and down the ballot, but he said the GOP stands to lose ground if the “grumpy” Republicans stay home.
Former Republican Chairman Tom Pauken said politicians and party leaders need to reassure the Republican grass-roots workers that their efforts matter for conservative causes.
“The grass roots has withered up and died,” Pauken said.
Au contraire. From what I saw at the Pennsylvania Leadership Conference of grass-roots conservatives recently and from what I see in my e-mailbox every day, the Right’s grass roots are alive and well. It’s principled conservative leadership in Washington that has withered up, died, and been replaced by invasive weeds.
***
Related note to the White House: Signing lame-duck executive orders on immigration enforcement doesn’t count as principled conservative leadership.
***
Update: Just received an informative e-mail from a Texas GOP convention attendee…
Michelle,
I’m a Republican in Texas, and will be attending the state convention this week as an alternate. This is my third state convention serving the party in some capacity, and I have to say, this year I’m expecting very little good to come out of it.
My reasoning is that the “Ron Paul” crowd, which represents about 1/3 of the delegates attending the convention this week, have caused a great amount of trouble and stress for doing nothing more than standing up for their beliefs. Meanwhile, conservatives who supported Thompson, Hunter, or another candidate have the same issues with the party. We’re worried, and I believe rightfully so, that we will be tarred with the same brush as those whose goals are to disrupt and wreak havoc. It’s a huge mess; while most conservatives have no wish to be affiliated with the “liberaltarians” who have infiltrated our party, there are other Ron Paul Republicans who ARE conservative and that means that all conservative efforts to change things will be stomped upon.
What we’re disgruntled about in our state is an utter lack of leadership at the state party level; we have a governor who has publicly disregarded the voice of the grassroots and the platform, a state chairman who issues press releases on issues contrary to our platform, and massive electoral issues that trickle down from the highest levels.
Thank you so much for posting on what is happening down here. We are sure that there are other conservative Republicans across the country who see similar problems. The question is, do we make tentative alliances with anti-war, pro-choice factions in order to gain any kind of success?
Michele Samuelson
National Committeewoman, Texas Republican Assembly
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Please don’t think of it as “rude”. I believe it is more of a Pavlovian response on my part, following our mutual threads this afternoon.
Wow. Of all your ignorant statements, this has to be the one that takes the cake.
Then, oh wise_man, is McCain trying to court so many to the left who are full of crap and living in a fantasy world?
Why doesn’t he espouse conservative values instead of crap like McCain-Feingold, the Gullible Warming scam, amnesty for illegals, and on and on?
This is our champion? This is who I MUST vote for according to many, or I personally am responsible for our destruction? I think that McCain, not me, bears that burden when he shows that apparently his principles are almost infinitely flexible in that he can “reach out” to people who are diametrically opposed to conservative values, and accept the premises of their arguments and thus go further down the road to socialism.
I got it wise man, but what about every vote for McCain that was meant for Obama by someone pretending to be Hillary who wanted Thompson as McCain’s VP. Who does that vote go to?
ROFLMAO.
A peroggi? Now that explains a lot.
Jesus Christ. What a waste of time it is to attempt to speak logic to someone like you. And why are you on this site in the first place, spreading your poison to all of us here? Shouldn’t you be on some fringe libertarian or kook conservative website raising money for a blimp or something?
Good Lord. I shoudl have known.
Bob Barr is running. One can waste a vote on him to express disastisfaction with the RINO, but it is basically the same as not voting. A net loss of a usual Republican vote
Ron Paul may run as an independent. He’ll take some fiscal conservatives who normally vote Republican, plus some of the 9-11 truthers and anti-Israel nuts who’d otherwise vote Democrat, so he really is a wash.
Why don’t you ask him?
Now, that could be saying something, given our exchanges today.
I will not vote for the the lesser of 2 evils. I have my conservative morals, values, beliefs and principles…if the candidates don’t measure up and I don’t vote, so be it.
The arrogance of the Republican party is beyond belief, but it is showing it’s true face. They have to be thinking “we have the grumpy, out of touch, off the track base, what else they going to do, vote for Bahma?”
Bush signing an executive order to enforce the laws that should have been enforced over 20 yrs ago, is no more than a slap in the face the American people…does anyone think it will make a difference now(rhetorical)?
To the powers that be on this site. If an ignore feature will be added at some point, I’d like to be able to use this function.
Thank you.
The nominal Republicans who voted for Perot instead of Bush gave us eight years of Clinton, and the Democrats who didn’t think al-Ghour was ideologically pure enough and voted Nader gave us eight years of Bush.
Seems to me voting Third Party instead of choosing the lesser of two evils (McCain, syphillis, or Obama, HIV-AIDS) generally leads to buyer’s remorse down the line
Wow. And yet another personal insult to a fellow commenter from the same person. …. amazing.
There are probably a lot of things you should know but I’m not holding out much hope for you, after our exchanges this afternoon.
Whereas you vote party lines, I vote on principle. My vote for Perot in ’92 was my principled protest of both major parties, including their candidates, Bush and Clinton.
Do you have any principles or has the GOP not told you what they are supposed to be yet?
Khan #202, that statement gets you 20 McAmnesty points. He’s going to get that seat on stage with La Raza if he keeps this up.
[IGNORED]
wise_main opined:
But then no one would ever see your posts…
[INTERNET TROLL] [PERSONAL INSULT] [IGNORED]
I would rather when asked “who did you vote for?” in November be able to say I voted for the man/woman who promised to uphold the values I espouse.
You still don’t get it?
AHHHHHHHH!!!!! Because we refuse to vote for mcamensty you say we don’t get it. I get it already. STOP SAYING IT already!!!! Jesus Christ. You arrogant freaking GOP troll. Look, we can agree to disagree, but saying the same thing over and over and over will not change my mind. Truth is YOU DON”T GET IT. One freaking election is not going to turn this country over to the commies or the terroists. I will vote for the conservative congress people to be sure, but not for liberal mcamnesty. Get a grip. However, election after election of continued move left toward socialism by all parties will lead to the demise of the country. Holy cow.
“This election is now down to two people. If you write in a name, you are making a mockery of our political process.”
EXACTLY….
Let me get this straight. You cast personal dispersions on other posters and me by name and you want to cry about my allusion to those early denigrations on this thread? You are seriously the McCain gift that keeps on giving today, wise_man.
How did we do without your charm for so long on this blog?
Exactly, Weary Citizen, we don’t get rid of socialism or even fight against it by voting for socialism lite…we don’t make a right turn by turning left (unless we make three of them I guess…).
Wise_man has resorted to name calling and all caps ignore statements. Is there a moderator in the house with the ban-stick at the ready?
I am a solid conservative, and I have decided I have to, in this case, choose the lesser of two evils, because Obama is really that bad.
Staying home or voting third party won’t stop the choice from being made. If there was a viable third party candidate, who had a chance of winning, it might make a difference.
If nothing else, McCain is generally pro-life, and Obama has a perfect pro-death voting record, and even worked against an Illinois law that would outlaw killing babies who had been born alive after botched abortions.
One can legitimately decide, in my opinion, that McCain is just that bad. I don’t agree with that decision, because Obama is even worse, and, in my own opinion, any chance of overturning Roe dies, along with millions of babies, by allowing Obama to be President.
But if people really can’t vote for him, well, mistake in my opinion, but it is up to each voter’s conscience.
LOL Wiseman, you took the first swipe at me (and Barry F.) and then you can’t take the post that points out you’re doing this for McCain points????? LOL. I’m pulling for you to get those tickets to La Raza, really I am. Say more nice things about McCain. It’s funny to me.
Yes. I disagreed with you. And you acted like an internet troll in response. You are an embarrassment.
You are mistaken. Read this thread from the beginning. It will then make sense, and you will understand that you are incorrect.
ROFLMAO
I had to read and re-read those again. That is rich! I have tears in my eyes I am laughing so hard at that gesture!
Look, wise_man. You and I will just have to agree to disagree on McCain. I don’t begrudge you for voting for him, just as I don’t begrudge anyone for voting for Obama. But, you can not and will not coerce me into voting for McCain. If, for some reason I do end up pulling the proverbial lever for him, it won’t be because you bullied me into doing it.
Now see Ed, that’s the way to discuss this matter. Calling me an Idiot is not. This is America and I have the right to write in Newt Gingrich. WiseGuy doesn’t understand that. He’s just trying to get those McCain points for posting nice things about McCain. If you have any, can you lend him some? That way he gets his goal and goes away.
Thanks.
Please stop acting like an internet troll, #227.
Ed Mahmoud abu al-Kahoul, 2 good points(only good points) for McNasty…defense and right to life…but will Roe vs. be challenged in the next 4 yrs?
When you act in an idiotic manner and your actions will result in the election of President Obama, I will speak out and inform you why your actions are harmful to yourself and this country, #228.
Everyone agrees McCain is a RINO. I happen to believe Obama is so much worse I have to vote for McCain.
Others think McCain’s pro-amnesty, anti-First Amendment, class warfare, and global warming hysteria are so bad they can’t vote for him.
No reason to insult people over those facts, it is an honest disagreement. I hope, in the end, more people see it my way, and we endure merely the bad for four years instead of the disasterous.
But no reasons for insults.
Amnesty is good for the country?????
Meanwhile as we banter about how sucky McCain is yet we will vote for him or how sucky he is and we won’t vote for him, the GOP has destroyed the party to the point that whoever the President is may not matter at all.
The Senate looks to be falling even further into socialism and the house is all but destroyed.
I am just curious if this is my fault too?
I hear you Ed.
Not on the national level with a Dem Congress. Maybe on the state level.
Obviously, your technique in #215 was inadequate, if you still feel compelled to rant at me.
Look. Are you ready?…
Here is the trollish thing I said to you in #227…
Are you ready?…
Here it is in plainer English: We don’t agree but you have the right to vote how you want and I have the right to vote how I want – period.
I doubt I am going to change your mind and I know you aren’t going to change mine given the approach you have tried on me today on this thread.
Ed Mahmoud abu al-Kahoul, I am curious for your take on this since you feel a vote for McCain is necessary, when is enough enough? What about those that voted against principle and for the GOP in 1988, 1992 and 2000? Is the conservative movement stronger because of these wins?
Tie. Both of them are pro-amnesty. I think McCain at least wanted them to fork over a coupla thousand bucks before being allowed to vote and being entitled to social security and welfare. Not sure Obama would even require that.
BTW, I like Michael Medved, but his insistence last year that McCain’s plan wasn’t amnesty because illegal aliens would have to pay a fine made me want to punch my car radio.
LOL, I know Ed. I’m stuck. I don’t want Obama, but again, If Amnesty and all the bad that comes with it, I want it pinned on the Democrats.
Here’s an interesting take on it. I like the pictures too.
Got to run for a while folks. Have a good evening. Maybe I can check back in shortly to see how things have developed on this thread.
Heh, I am not “incorrect” for wanting to vote for a conservative? Right… I am going to vote for a conservative who stands up for conservative values. End of story.
Just because McCain refuses to allow himself to win by hanging me out to dry is his own downfall not mine. If he would only drop the amnesty thing alone I think 90% of conservatives hesitant to vote for him would hold their nose and vote for him.
Why don’t you spend as much energy as you are right now yelling at conservatives who want to vote for a strong Republican candidate into convincing McCain he is being a dunce on immigration and get him to change his tune sooner than later so he can salvage this election before it bites him in the arse? It would certainly be more productive, one would hope, than convincing the rest of us to vote for a candidate that supports the destruction of this country from the inside via open borders and no respect for the sovereignty of this nation and its laws.
No. You are incorrect when you claimed that I resorted to name calling. I asked you to re-read the thread so you can see that your comment was factually incorrect, and you responded with another incorrect claim that what I said had anything to do with you voting for a conservative.
As a Democrat who couldn’t find one candidateeven at the beginning of the process, I started looking at the Republicans. There were a few I could have voted for. Duncan Hunter was one but the media kept ignoring the conservative candidates and making sure their debate time was nearly non-existent. We have all been led down the garden path. I honestly do not know anyone who can stomach either candidate or even Hillary. So if the DNC and RNC got us here, as I leave the Dems behind, I have nowhere to go. There are conservative Democrats too that have nowhere to go but Independent.So the GOP has not only angered the grass roots of the party but also scared off potential new members. It’s almost like what happened with labor unions. They started off with helping the worker and they were needed. Somewhere along the line the Union itself became more important than the labor force.They no longer represented the people. They became greedy and corrupt. I don’t see any difference in the political parties.
1988 and 1992- Dukakis and Clinton would have been/were worse. In hindsight, Dukakis may not have been a complete America hater.
2000? Well, I think we learned “compassionate conservative” is code for RINO. I have no idea how Gore would have reacted to 9-11.
If he had gone the Clinton route, gone to the UN, gotten a strongly worded resolution demanding that Afghanistan expel OBL, had DoJ issue some indictments, and just waited, well, we’d would have almost certainly seen repeats of 9-11 attacks by now, with only God knows how many dead.
If he had followed the public pressure, against the will of the party power base/radicals, and had gone to war against al Qaeda and Afghanistan, and maybe continued Clinton’s doctrine calling for regime change in Iraq, Republicans would have supported him, out of patriotism, and the MSM would have supported him, and without the hope that al Qaeda has now that the Dems might win the White House and snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, maybe war on Islamic terror might be already won. With a unified congress and MSM supporting a President Gore, Iran and North Korea probably would have dropped their nuke programs.
But that is hypothetical. If Gore continued the Clinton policy of sitting on his ass and having Justice issue indictments, NYC might be a burnt out radioactive wasteland already.
Ed, your right again, your on a roll bud…lol. I believe i read or heard the other day there are 2 states trying to get enuf petitions signed to have “right to life ” on their state ballots this Nov. Hmmm, if that’s the case McNasty loses 1 of his two good points. 1 less reason to hold my nose.
Quittin’ time…
Wise_Man said:
Ladies and Gentlemen!
This is obviously the kind of respect Conservatives will get (once wise_man gets his way and) when McCain gets in…I’m so thrilled.
Today wise_man you -like the errant Buckaroo- have just made the BEST argument for not supporting McCain.
(I’m just giggling with glee!)
McCain either performs or he doesn’t…if you can’t figure that out, well I feel your pain, Buckaroo -oops Wise_Man
Ed, thanks for the reply, but there still two very important questions to go along with all of this:
when is enough enough?
Is the conservative movement stronger because of these wins(’88, ’92, ’00)?
People who voted for the scam artist Ross Perot are responsible for Bill Clinton being elected and then being the president for 8 years. This was a ‘protest vote’ against Bush. It divided the vote and Bill Clinton was elected.
Giggle away, love2rumba.
Love2rumba, you are so right and this has been the McCain strategy from the beginning. “I am a war hero! Now sit down, shut up and take it!”
Apparently the brilliant GOP strategy is to study John Kerry’s campaign and “improve” on it.
To be honest, I don’t think McCain or the pundits realize how big a problem this is. They still think republicans “have some misgivings” as I hear them say. No, we have major problems with issues. We AREN’T voting for him, get a clue.
Ladies and Gentlemen!
This is a copy of what love2rumba said. It is in bold font. I hope you like this.
(I’m just giggling with glee!)
Wrong! Bush is responsible for his loss.
Hypothetical question, let’s say we all hold out noses and McNasty wins…4yrs of ? Then what will the Republican party throw our way next time? Will they have learned, heard or seen where the party has gone after wining another presidential election with a RINO? Not sure, that may be more scary than BHO for 4.
Donut44 said:#251, Bob Dole comes to mind too.
Well I guess this “technically” isn’t “name calling” I guess I should have said libelous instead.
And your very implication that by voting for Sarah Palin I am handing the election to Obama indicates that “what I said had anything to do with you voting for a conservative.” Because I clearly pointed out that I am more than willing to vote for a conservative, and there will be conservatives on the ticket to vote for. Your point, which is a no brainer btw and is far from rocket science, is that by voting for a conservative we are not voting for one of the two candidates “most likely to win” since it has been historically shown that a third party never wins. So you argue that by voting for a third party such as Palin we are taking votes away from the Republicans and thus enabling Obama. Yet again…. duh. I argue that it is not the fault of the conservatives writing in votes for McCain’s eventual losing the election. That blame falls squarely on his own shoulders for taking an amnesty stance on immigration, among other things. If he was pro-border security and rule of law he would have more momentum behind him right now then he would know what to do with and Obama would look like the empty suit he really is with his “hope and change” black hole message and his lack of any real leadership experience and piss poor voting record. But alas we have the “change” we apparently deserve for electing these ultra-liberals and RINO’s in the first place.
Someone smack the previous generation of voters for me since I wasn’t able to vote back then.
Donut44, Ross Perot was a puppet to defeat Bush, who he hated immensely. His whole campaign was a sham. Perot divided the vote from Bush and allowed Bill Clinton to get elected. If Ross Perot was not on the ballot, then Bill Clinton would have lost.
Wise_man,
You are always good for interesting posts.
I find it interesting that you are telling me, and any others who disagree w/The McCain(R-Media) to shut up. Your logic contains several flaws.
I don’t really expect you to to see this as anything other than an attack, even though I do not mean it that way. I am also confident, based on your previously exposits to actually think about what I am writing.
We did *not* choose McCain. The R-party Mucky-mucks put together the early-bird open primaries in order to imbue McCain with momentum — as he’s someone to their complete liking. We conservatives were, from the moment of his entry, treated to: “get over Reagan! He’s so yesterday!” “McCain is *Electable*”, “No *True* Conservative would work against ‘The Big Tent’”. (nb: I find the last too much like the open-borders cry for comfort, and it seemed to shut down a lot of discussions…)
During that time, I noticed on HuffPo and Kos the “Lets cross over” group. Note that this *preceded* Op-Chaos by at least 4 months, so the Lefty lie that it was a response is just that!
Now you tell me that there are only 2 choices. You say some are bitter because McCain beat their man in the primaries. You have in the past said McCain has integrity. You say our emotions are leading us astray. You say you are a “Realist”.
The republican was once so far out no one thought it could be brought back. By appealing to *timeless principles* Reagan did bring the party back. He was ignored, and his supporters impugned until he’d raised enough private money and supporters to be too big to ignore. CFR has changed that, in that a candidate is wholly beholden to the main office for the bulk of his funds. This is in conflict with the 1st Amendment. And please don’t raise the SCOTUS canard. They were as wrong about that as about Dred Scott, and time — if we last — will show it so.
The Party Muckity-mucks at that time *liked* being shut out. They got to feed on the srcaps thrown them by the Dems, and if they were particularly helpful to the Dems, at election time there was a bone thrown to the Repub by their masters to help them in their efforts. A little power for a lot of hand-licking and no responsibility. It suited the Rs just fine!
You say standing on principle is bitterness and foolishness. I lived through WWII. The same was said of England by a certain segment of the world. I didn’t believe it then and I didn’t believe it now. Standing for Principle is never foolish! But the people who tell us so say a lot about themselves.
McCain is electable? No, it will take a fluke for him to win, but I have watched longer-shots payoff. The fact that he has told conservatives he doesn’t want or need them shows what camp he is firmly in. Why burden him with our vote then? Is it bitterness to do as asked? There isn’t a Conservative here who won’t vote for Conservative Rs under the Presidential Ticket, so please put that silly song away.
The “Suck it up” “All they’re interested in is whining”, et al are interesting emotional responses to valid point of difference. If McCain is so great, show us why. I’ve often noticed that those with no counter argument of fact will resort to the emotion-laden content-free arguments you have called forth.
I submit that our emotions, though strong haven’t unmanned us, but are strengthening us to do what must be done. McCain’s “Electability” rests on 2 points:
1) His popularity with the MSM
2) his “strong” stance on the WOT.
As for the 1st point: he hasn’t actually had to rely on fairness from the MSM vs their Favorite Son, who incidentally, have “feelings up their [collective] leg” for him. We’ll see how he fairs when it comes to that, but I don’t really think it will be all that well.
His strength on point #2 is all paper-tiger. You can empty CONUS of troops — sending them all out to fight, but if the blackhats can sneak over the border then it is for nothing. A few suitcase-nukes or a couple of EMP generators in prop-planes and that’s it.
Which is to say nothing of the quiet invasion that is even now underway, with McCain’s approval. And please don’t tell me he’ll fight it. I remember his fighting to keep sanctions against ID-thieves out of Imm. Reform. Why would he give more rights to non-citizens than to citizens if he disagreed with my premise?
Honesty & integrity: Sorry, any of this he had, he left home when he went to DC. The Keeting 5, undercutting the Nuclear-option, LaRaza on staff, the collusion between he & Huckabee, lying about his actions during Reagan’s terms (he actually fought Reagan’s reforms tooth & nail), other items in a much too long list. All these bespeak of a man with Character — just not the Character that I want to support. Now, when we STFU & vote McCain it will be taken as a n “atta-boy” to the party. No thanks. As Buckley did, we must stand athwart and shout “STOP!”.
You hope for Conservatism to loose. Never fear, you will get your wish.
For us, (Conservatives), no matter which choice we take, we loose. If we vote and McCain wins, when he proves to be the walking disaster that he is, we’ll be blamed — for not voting for Smuckabee or some other. If O’Bomb’r wins — with or with/out our votes for McCain, will catch that blame too — for “posioning the water” by *daring* to stand for principle and asking for reassurances of at least a little across-the-isle from McCain.
Listen to yourself! You’re impugning people you know nothing about over a candidate whos actions have proved him faithless! There is a big difference between the two: the people you STFU to have no track record of action, while the candidate *does*!
Is that the actions of someone thinking clearly & logically?
A last thought. Something you might be too young to know:
BE CAREFUL when calling yourself a realist. So were the Vichy-French before you. For them, it wasn’t so good. I hope it works better for you.
I bear no animus toward you, I say what I have said w/o rancor. I hope you actually read this and think about what I’ve typed here.
– martin.musculus
#256, “And your very implication that by voting for Sarah Palin…”
Wha? Who is that? Is this a person on ‘Celebrity Match Game?” I never heard of that name before.
And so it begins (i.e. the beginning of the end of the GOP).
Why are you participating with this fantasy of so many others here making claims of things I never said?
It is good Wise_Man that you can quote the truth.
In fact I do like this.
I am watching the wheels of your arguments fly off…it is great entertainment.
Are you referring to the copy/paste of the strawman comment #77 from Barry F.?
Here is a tip, she is governor of Alaska.
Please stop acting like an internet troll, #252.
Wise_Man you’ve been a lot of fun today. We’ve got to do this again sometime….
Wise man, you give hypotheticals, but I do actually agree with your assessment. But the real problem is that I also believe Ross Perot could have won if he wanted to and had stayed in the race, the first time, but his motive was to defeat Bush, much like you said.
However, Bush was put in this spot because he like to “reach across the aisle” which we have all come to know as selling out and giving up to get nothing. Perot would have been laughed off the stage if Bush was a man with backbone. Bush lost and no one took that from him, and he deserves and earns this honor.
Thanks Alaskan…
You’ve given a very cogent analysis.
You are jesting, right? Since you don’t have the “/sarcasm off” following it, I can’t really tell.
You are wrong, love2rumba. From the beginning here, I have said:
And I have tried to keep on topic despite all of the attempts of people who disagree with me and then subsequently troll me with strawman arguments and mocking my username.
The election of a candidate from a field of participants is now over. Any other vote is wasted, and will benefit the other candidate – i.e. this will help Obama to get elected.
I didn’t vote for McCain in the primary. I think he’s a lousy candidate. I think that Obama is worse. I don’t live in a fantasy land where I think I can write in Bob Barr or some other idiot and either get them elected, or make a meaningful protest vote of any kind.
It is now down to two people. The only ones here telling people to shut up is #77 and #251. I am telling people the reality of their actions and these people are responding with emotion and acting like internet trolls.
This election in November is not going to be entertaining. This is an important election. I don’t want to see this internet trolling manifest itself into the real world where the consequences will be an Obama presidency.
#210:
But if you had an ignore feature, wise_man, then who would you talk to? All of the numbskulls and people who “don’t get it” would be on your list. By my reckoning, that’s everyone here but you.
I’m starting to think that a little havoc and disruption is what the Republican party badly needs. Nothing else seems to get through to them.
McCain is actually the Conservative’s Cat’s-meow…
…except for that “excessive profits” thing…
…open borders thing…
…allowing illegals to skate on ID theft thing….
…thinking Thomas & Alito are too conservative thing…
…having LaRaza as ExO thing…
…lying to the PACs in his speech thing…
… (insert your favorite 7 items here, I need to take care of my Hyacinth Macaw: Simon Bird Sinister)…
… hating Conservatives thing…
But, REALLY! He’s just the very best for us!
– martin.musculus
#271. No. Just one. That’s all.
Ross Perot seems to have been right about many of the issues we are facing now. He lost because he had a twang and wasn’t pretty to look at. He was too easy to poke fun at.Oh yeah, he liked country music too. He wasn’t sophisticated enough for the mainstream media. After their success in that arena the media became emboldened and now they make all our choices. I for one am sick of the coverage 24/7 like there is nothing else we should be looking at. MM is among the few voices trying to keep us informed.The attacks on her and others by our government should cause us all to be alarmed.We are reaching a point where we are not allowed to speak on any subject now that even the weather is a volatile issue. We can’t keep arguing over really poor candidates. When Ross Perot was running, the internet was in it’s infancy. Now we have the opportunity to communicate with others in seconds. We can organize a write in candidate or a stealth third party. We have six months to make history.Finding the courage to do it is another matter.
I will agree with you on some points in this post, like…
and
But, you have seriously mischaracterized what I said in post #77 and what Donut44 said in post #251. Slow down and read them again.
The “shut up” comments that you seem to be trying to project upon yourself from them were commentaries on what we have been told from the GOP establishment and the McCain campaign, since he became the presumptive nominee. No one ever implied that you “shut up.”
You should read things, before you fly of the handle at us and cast dispersions.
martin.musculus, Two great posts. Bravo.
Agreed. Sorry I forgot to take the time to point that out a few moments ago, Martin. My apologies.
Wise_Man, I’ll say this before I have to get in my car:
#258: now that was a beatdown. bravo.
In regards to the last post by AuntieEm….
“By George!, I think she’s got it.”
with apologies to Rex Harrison….
#280 in your dreams.
Indeed, well said martin.musculus
For all of those conservatives and independents that have expressed a desire for a party that represents their view point try looking here.
http://americanconservativeparty.org/
It’s so annoying to see these many trolls get together and whoop and screech while they are in great numbers. Just because there are so many morons here who are about to participate in helping to elect a democrat president out of spite because their choice for the nomination failed to get enough votes. You make the democrats proud by sewing the seeds of chaos within our party. Maybe some of you are really clueless conservatives who haven’t thought it through. Maybe some are liberal trolls, and at least one is a peroggi, and has not learned his lesson from his past mistakes. No matter.
Bravo.
Giggle.
Indeed.
just make sure that in 2010 when the Republicans take back Congress to DO something instead of waiting for the new republican president in 2012. Don’t repeat 1994/96 again!
I think we are all true Americans, except for lgm, nyk, and others.
I’ve lived through the pain of Carter. I’ve seen what he did to the middle class. Although I’m now upper something, I still haven’t abandoned my roots.
The thought of Iran with nukes. The thought of more 9-11′s (I lost friends in 9-11, and I have friends suffering now NYPD/FDNY from the effects).
I really hope Hillary has a smoking gun on Boy Blunder. As much as I hate the Clinton’s, I take her over Obama in a second… (Did I really type that) I don’t think she’d screw up a good thing in the Middle East.
And I don’t care if my President has spots, as long as he/she is conservative.
Getting Obama and hoping for another Reagan is too much of a risk. The possibility of nutjobs having nukes, trumps waiting for Reagan.
This is coming from a guy who as a kid, met Reagan. And the last time I felt truly safe was when Reagan was President. I balled like a baby when he died.
We can get conservatism back. We know the RNC playbook. Let’s just bring the defense to stop them.
O
*Whew* I was afraid you were talking about me there for a minute. I’ve cherished our time together today, wise_man. You’ve kept my afternoon/evening…errr….interesting. Yes. That word will suffice. It has been interesting – very interesting.
Wise Man 283, I’ve been for Newt all along. He couldn’t get in because McCain/Feingold bill. I blog on his Newt.org site and you can tell that at one time I was willing to vote for McAmnesty. The more the campaign carried on and pandered to the Illegals, I started to question him. Seeing Juan Hernandez still on his campaign gives me great reason to question his honesty (remember, he told that lady that he would fire Juan had Juan said the things she pointed out to him “Mexico First”.)
Then we add to that major issue his banning drilling in ANWR and off the shores.
He’s actively seeking Hillary voters while turning his back on true conservatives.
He’s poked me in the eye so many times that I don’t think I can see his name on the ballot anymore anyway.
But, having had the discusion today, You may have me rethinking my vote. Instead of writing in Newt, I may now have to vote for Martin Musculus.
It’s going to be a hard choice.
As I said in an earlier post…I really don’t want to become embroiled in the Wise_man versus the so-called “rest of us” comments.
Wise_man has every right to his opinions and makes several cogent points as to his position. He has a right to express his views.
As other individuals have a right to express their disagreements with his position.
No one is a troll here….In my view anyway.
And lest this comment be construed as a knee-jerk reaction in the lines of a “Why can’t we all just get along.” Rodney King type statement….
I do not agree with the premise that we have to protect our country by accepting McCain as the only right alternative against Obama.
Truth be told….both of the current candidates are going to use fear against the other candidates in order to get themselves elected.
But Wise_man has every right to express his views on this forum.
And I find the attacks against him just another expression of “herd think”…and his position is “herd think” also.
Maybe it would be better to debate the effects of how governmental mandates (even though promulagated by both current parties in prominance) have lessened our individual freedoms.
Speaking from a personal vewpoint….If we support the concept of control over our own personal lives and property by our government..no matter which party…then we have a right to choose either Obama or McCain.
But in dealing with the fear of either popular candidate and what he MAY do if elected is buying in to the propaganda of both parties.
Again…I have the right..(at least for right now) to engage or disengage from the political process as it exists at the moment. I choose to debate the current politcal climate from an individual liberty vs. the so-called needs of the state. I find that both parties are lacking in that regard.
IndependentTom, great points. Remember though, Wiseman attacked me and Barry F. first. Barry pointed it out in an earlier post. So I’m defending my decision to not voting for McCain. When we boil it down, Wiseman is right for making his choice just as much as I’m right for selecting my choice. I don’t call him an idiot for making his choice. Nor say that he has a think head.
I’ve just given a few jabs about him doing it for the special points McCain gives out for talking nice about him.
Sorry Wiseman if that got under your skin.
Now, Martin or Newt. Martin, where do you stand on the illegal invaders that McCain favors?
I’ve concluded a long time ago that I’m voting more “against” than “for” in this election. Against the donkeys.
The Republican Party is an imperfect instrument. John McCain is an imperfect candidate. OK.
Those here who are, or have been in the military service will understand that when the battle comes, you fight with what’s at hand. If all you have is a faulty M-4 that only fires semi-automatic, and a pile of rocks for “field-expedient hand grenades” instead of the real thing, you still fight.
You don’t “retrograde at your own speed” or surrender because you don’t have a brand-new M-4 in perfect condition and refuse to engage without one.
There’ll come a time for pitching a bitch to the supply sergeant about what lousy equipment you’ve got, but in the face of the enemy isn’t that time.
Obama has made no secret of his intention to stab our servicemembers in the back the first chance he gets. If by act or omission you help to hand him the blade when you could’ve kept it away from him, how would that make you feel?
I wouldn’t be able to live with myself.
Those who want to roll over and let the donkeys run the economy into the ground, continue to debase society and to deliberately lose a war because it’ll all be “their” fault are missing an important distinction between today and 1980:
Ronald Reagan is dead.
He was a once-in-a-lifetime president. There is no “Reagan 2.0″ to save us in 2012 after “Carter 2.0.”
I’m not “Mr. Republican” in the sense of blind loyalty, although I am a Republican; but I will always fight the evil that the donkeys have become, even if all I have is a broken weapon at my disposal.
I will not be a “We’re screwed!” defeatist.
I will not be a, “If I don’t get a 100% TO&E unit with 100% personnel strength, then I won’t fight until I do” perfectionist.
There are some things that transcend what I want. Stopping the donkeys — even if it means getting a less-than-ideal McCain instead — is one of those things.
John Ansell….
agree…
The thing I hope for in this forum is a rusurrection of the concept that we as individuals have both the responsibility and the obligation to acknowledge the concept of personal liberty….
I believe that the founding fathers had this in mind when they wrote the documents that enumurize our rights under the Constitution.
But I think that current “realpolitik”
as espoused by both parties in current prominence has lessened individual freedom. This strikes me as diametrically opposed to the concepts espoused by the founders of our republic.
It’s funny to see you whine about people misrepresenting your points (they haven’t), and then you see constantly misrepresent theirs. Clearly, the word ‘principle’ is not in your vocabulary.
OK…Rugulus…
The concept that you espouse is such that the governent cannot mususe the honor of the armed forces.
Frankly..they can..
The military is tied into the concept that the government is not going to misuse them.
Recent events seem to belie that article of faith.
Please understand that I’m not denigrating the concepts of honor and duty….but I do have a problem with the government belittling the sacrifice of our troops.
BTW..sorry for the mispellings…
It’s been a long day..
Thanks Independent Tom. I live in Pennsylvania where this country basically started. I have a dozen or more ancestors who fought in the Revolution. That was a lot of sacrifice. It left children being reared by others and hardships unimaginable to us.I think we had a great country come out of it. I can’t even claim to be middle class because they keep moving the bar. I’m about ten years behind.I can however still think for myself.I’m not to lazy to do the research. Why are all of us here on this forum? Is it not a good place to start a new revolution? Maybe not with guns but with our independent strengths?I don’t see how we can survive as a nation with all this infighting. The left knows this. That is why they fight so hard for “diversity”. We need to be able to regain those individual freedoms you speak of.I haven’t seen trolls on this site but I have seen them on newspaper forums.This is a very destructive force. I’ve also seen on those forums the decline of education in this country.People have lost the ability to reason.Everything is given to them like an advertising jingle and they just keep singing the same tune.It’s a dirty little ditty at that. Down with decency and our fellow man is the underlying message.Down with the USA is the impending result.Now, what do you suggest? We can’t just stand around wringing our hands.
Absolutely.
I agree, and even support all in rational discussion.
That is a viewpoint too. If you thought that way, and could make a cogent case for it, you might convince me — assuming it could withstand my counter arguments.
Sir, you repeat yourself.
Here is where I take exception to your discourse. Look over my posts. I didn’t gratuitously attack wise_man. Truth is, we’ve had run-ins before. He doesn’t answer points of logic, instead he misdirects with a lot of emotional gibbering. For an example of his logic, see #285.
John Ansell & Barry F.: Thanks. I glad it turned out well… The @#$%&@#! macaw was trying to chew on my LCD monitor… a behaviour that she knows gets my goat, and can damage the monitor. Have your ever held a hyacinth Macaw? They have a beak like a
nutcrackercan-opener! (it is a nutcracker…)I can not run, I am old enough to credibly call McCain “son”. Even though I remarried 30 yrs younger…
I think we should seal the borders & put all Congress’ pay into ICE for deportation. I’m a cold-hearted op.wetback supporter.
Regulus:
My wife is a USAF Major, a surgeon. She tells me there are a *LOT* of warriors, (I guess USAF & Army, I don’t think she sees Navy types, although she’s treated a few Marines…) can’t stand McCain. They don’t believe him.
They don’t believe O’Bomb’r, either. A lot of good men will muster out after this election. Unless stop-loss prevents.
Sometime fighting means not taking one of the choices your enemy leaves you, but making your own.
If the GOP’s leftward drift has been aided by LOSE, and we are at the point where the GOP=Socialist Lite, then it seems that no matter how painful the medicine, we need to cut the infected tissue out (h/t: my wife), so the body can heal.
In any event, like it or not, I am circumscribed by my religion. I can not vote against what I believe.
If I think that a man is dishonest and lacks “Good Character” — as set forth by the Founders, I must needs vote for someone else.
I have no choice. I really believe in what I’ve learned and I know that I absolutely must follow my conscience on this.
Oh, the bird is throwing things at the dog… She’s *really* been a handful today!
– martin.musculus