Democrat Congressman: Obama’s too liberal to endorse (but I’ll vote for him); Update: Guess who Tancredo’s voting for?
Dan Boren from Oklahoma’s second district–”Little Dixie”–seems more than a bit agnostic about the Obamessiah, whom he dubs the “most liberal Senator“.
Get that? Most liberal. More liberal than John Kerry, Ted Kennedy, or Barbara Boxer. The. Most. Liberal.
I don’t really get the “too liberal to endorse, but not too liberal to vote for” distinction, but there you go. He’s a superdelegate, so he’ll vote for Obama at the convention, too.
Why wouldn’t he endorse Obama? Probably because he’s running for re-election in gun-totin’ Reagan Democrat central. He’s also been to Iraq since Obama has.
P.S. Dan Boren is David Boren’s son, so there goes this crazy VP idea I had.
UPDATE: Via Hot Air Headlines, a very unhappy Tanc’s made his mind up, too. I’ll let you click through to see who it is, but I’ll drop this line out there just to get a rise out of The Other McCain:
Tancredo told the News he couldn’t vote for Libertarian presidential candidate Bob Barr, who has similar views as he does on immigration, because Barr has “a blind spot on radical Islam.”
_____
{Post by See-Dubya.}
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- Dan Boren(D-OK): “I’ll vote for Obama, but I won’t endorse him.” | BitsBlog
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- More Democrat Problems for Obama | The Hinge Of Fate
- American Street » Blog Archive » AP Officially In The Tank For McCain
- American Street » Blog Archive » AP Officially In The Tank For McCain
- The Other McCain: Barr & Paul on Iran
- Rhymes With Right
- Moderate Democrats Turn Away From Barack Obama … Ohio Gov Ted Strickland Says No to VP Position | Scared Monkeys
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On another thread.
I read that Ron Paul may hold his own convention in Milwaukee. I think that will be good to great, something has to get the Rino’s attention.
I don’t agree with that, and think a third party vote is the same as not voting.
But I will say, successful (not that they win, that they get a fair chunk of votes) third party candidates like Perot and Nader usually reflect a dissatisfaction about the parties choice.
Ron Paul would have his dedicated Ronulacs no matter what, but if, say, Duncan Hunter or Fred Thompson had been the GOP nominee, Barr probably wouldn’t have even bothered, or wouldn’t get many votes even if he did.
I’m still digesting the latest McCain stupidity, the embrace of nanny-state liberal Democrat Bloomberg. He was a RINO, now Bloomberg is a IINO.
#91:
I think you, like some others yesterday, are confused regarding the motives of some voters.
I guess I’ll have to lump you in with wise_man, et al. You vote against someone rather than voting for someone. And anyone who dislikes McCain must be a Dem or an Obama operative/plant. That’s an intellectually weak argument. Had it occurred to you that some don’t like McCain because for all intents and purposes he is a liberal/Dem?
Wow.
Man, I am so disappointed in Tancredo here (a man I voted and donated to). I understand his rationale, though he is not as obnoxious as the mcamnesty cheerleaders on this board, but this just makes him look like another party at all cost guy. I beleive that if we do not break this 2 party system (or get the GOP to wise up), both parties will continue to drift left so we end up with a communist vs socialist choice in 20 years. Then it will be too late to make the necessary party changes. One election will NOT drive the country into the ground as all the gop kool-aid drinkers claim. I would like for him to have checked out all 3rd party options, not just Barr. How about the Constitution Party (don’t even start with the “its a wasted vote” crap guys). Pastor Baldwin is principled and strong against illegal immigration.
Barr is not bad either and even though he may be weaker on radical Islam, I continue to beleive that fighting radicals all over the world is pointless if you leave the homeland unportected and wide open. By securing all entry into the country and telling muslims in the US to fly right or they are out of here while limiting muslim entry would do more to protect Americans than anything else we could do. That is a dream I know, but at least secure the border as a start. Barr will acutally do it, and he might even not cheerlead for amensty. Mcamnesty, we know he will support amensty and not secure the border (he will give window dressing and illusiion of secured border to get amnesty though). Look, the GOP has decided they are better off picking up left of center voters and hispanics. White straight conservatives no longer have representation. And I for one am tired of it.
Sorry for the rant guys but man we can’t win when even our best men vote lesser of 2 evils. I will not vote for mcamnesty. Screwed in ‘08.
That is why I said “half convinced”. Someone so disgusted they could never vote for McCain would argue the same way an Obama plant would argue. Not saying those disgusted with McCain are Obama plants.
And, yes, I’ll vote for McCain only because it is voting against Obama. A Third Party vote, while technically not a vote for Obama, won’t stop Obama from winning.
I’d argue McCain isn’t a liberal Democrat as the liberal Democrats are now. He is an more of a Scoop Jackson or Zel Miller old school Democrat, that no longer exists. The closest thing in the Democrat party to McCain is Liebermann, who, while fairly liberal, wasn’t liberal enough for the modern Democrat party and had to run as an Independent.
A McCain presidency won’t be a happy thing, with him pushing a global warming cap & trade (ie, carbon tax), opposing drilling in ANWR, maybe supporting amnesty again.
I just think Obama’s may be permanently damaging. I believe he is a flat out American hating internationalist, who will stuff ACLU Marxists onto the nations courts with the consent of a majority liberal Senate.
You really are stupid.
You have no concept of the results of your actions or inactions. Your actions will please democrats, because you will help to get Obama elected.
I really feel sorry for you.
97 Khan
Do you think Barr can win? Really. If he can make it close, look like he can get 30% of the vote or more, than it isn’t the same as not voting at all.
Otherwise, one of the two, McCain or Obama, will be President, whether you sit at home, vote for Barr, write in Ronald Reagan’s ghost, whatever.
That almost sounds like something I have said a few times. I just haven’t made the other jump that Rep. Tancredo has, at least yet. *sigh*
Tancredo hasn’t told anyone else who to vote for, he has not endorsed McCain.
He just said who he plans to vote for, and why.
You may think he is voting for the wrong person, but he hasn’t endorsed anybody.
If he shows up at McCain rallies, does fundraisers, whatever, than he is endorsing him.
I use Colgate toothpaste. If I don’t try to talk others into doing it, than I’m not endorsing it.
I suppose, technically, if saying Obama is such a communist I feel the wise choice is voting for the RINO, that is an endorsement, but it is a negative endorsement of Obama, not a positive endorsement of McCain.
On June 10th, 2008 at 11:12 pm, Gabe said:
Gabe, I couldn’t agree with you more!
Like I said yesterday on another thread, I first doubted the rumor that B. Hussein Obama is a Muslim but the mounting evidence is overwhelmingly causing me to lean in that direction.
He sat in Wright’s church, inattentive to what was being said, because it was not his religion – he didn’t care; he refuses to drop the “Hussein” part of his name, despite its negative connotations with the man who masterminded th attacks of 9/11 and a religion of intolerance; and he allowed vicious antisemitic statements to stand on his Obama ‘08 Web site as a means of sending a “message.”
To be clear, I am not saying flat-out that B.HO is a Muslim, but I’m finding it harder and harder to accept with conviction and without pause that he isn’t.
And this will make you feel better, and the outcome will be that the greater of the two evils will prevail.
Congratulations.
And the funny thing is, that these same people who have some sort of mental disorder and can’t figure this out are also the same that will blame someone like John McCain for this. Not themselves, not the republican primary voters that voted for McCain, not the more conservative candidates that failed miserably to attract voters, but they blame everyone but the real cause of this the greater of the two evils winning – themselves.
B Hussein Obama is a Muslim, by the Muslim definition. Born to a Muslim father, a woman who seemed incapable of marrying non-Muslims, (a convert herself?) raised in Muslim Indonesia, registered in school as a Muslim, and if his half-sister’s account is true, sometimes attended Friday prayers at the mosque with his Muslim step-dad. He studied Arabic in Indonesia, and by one account can say Arabic phrases with a perfect accent.
Of course, he is probably an apostate Muslim. He may have claimed membership at TUCC for 20 years to get a start in Southside Chicago politics, but he is probably an atheist, as many Marxists are.
People have other motives, such as voting on principle rather than trying to deny an office and going with conventional wisdom’s “best bet”. I vote for the candidate that best reflects my values and beliefs; neither Obama nor McCain do.
You can argue that he isn’t a liberal Democrat as the liberal Democrats are now, but it would be very difficult to do, and regurgitating Sean Hannity’s Zell Miller and Scoop Jackson comparisons, idolizations, and rationalizations doesn’t help.
What the binary, anti-third party train of thought implies is that if you don’t vote for the winner, you’ve wasted your vote. I don’t care if the man can or can’t win; I vote according to my core beliefs and principles. It’s a shame more people don’t. They are locked into this two party nonsense and enable it. The famous scene at the end of Animal Farm in which the animals are peeking through the window and can’t discern the pigs from the men can be attributed to the Repubs and the Dems today; there is no difference, and that is exactly what you have with McCain.
#103:
That was Obama-like.
Wise_Man
I generally agree, but
The conservatives (Hunter and Tancredo), the semi-conservatives and the pseudo-conservatives (like Huckster) split the base vote, while early primaries that allowed open (ie, Democrat) voting, with only one RINO actively campaigning (Giuliani was waiting for Florida) meant the conservatives split the vote, and by default, as the only active RINO, McCain won.
If only Giuliani has run an active campaign early and split RINO/Dem votes with McCain. If only Huckster hadn’t pulled Christian voters in Iowa. If only Hunter had a little more money, and the MSM had chosen to pay a bit more attention to him. If only Thompson hadn’t played the “is he or isn’t he a candidate” game and started campaigning earlier.
I have tried to be repsectful, but pointing out saying one has decided to vote for McCain, as Tanc has done isn’t the same as an endorsement, for pinheads who can’t understand the difference, isn’t Obama like.
And you feel insulted that I might at least consider that you may be a moby?
Does the name Khan imply Paki heritage? Do you want Obama to be the next commander in chief because he’ll go easier in al Qaeda?
Now I’m 80% convinced you are a worshipper of the Obamessiah.
Hmmm, some people can discuss issues, and some people like Khan, whether because he is an Obama moby, or whether he actually is so upset about McCain he’d rather have a communist run this country into the ground, can only resort to insults.
Too bad this forum doesn’t have an ignore feature. The good news, my mouse has a scroll wheel.
#110:
ohmygod. you McCain supporters fit right in with the people who think the government is bombarding them with radio waves. now you’re going to read tea leaves into my handle? LMFAO.
pointing out saying one has decided to vote for McCain, as Tanc has done isn’t the same as an endorsement, for pinheads who can’t understand the difference, isn’t Obama like.A vote is support; it is an endorsement. You’re parsing just like Obama did with the word “work”.
#111:
there’s that binary train of thought again, this time couched in a strawman. have fun with your like-minded wise_man. you guys make a beautiful couple.
Look all you arrogant gop cheerleaders, I have done everything I possibly can to get the thick headed party leaders to understnad the horrific toll illegal immigration is taking on our country. I have spoken with my representatives, wrote letters, sent faxes (numbersUSA.com), voted and donated to Tancredo, joined and donated to immgration restrictionists orgnaizations, joined the Minutemen and went to the border for vigils while leaving my family behind to do so, etc. I have made every attempt to get hem to understand. What did I get in return? Called a bigot, vigalante, nativist, and fear monger. Wathced as the leaders of the party put a hispanic open borders advocate (martinez) up as the chariman. Watched as the party chose to support primary candidates who were open borders/amensty supporters. Listened as the so called party leaders attended and gave speeches at the convention of the ethnic supremacist racist organization La raza. Voted to give more pork $ to the open border ethnic organizations mecha, la raza, and lulac. Watched as they brought in hundreds of thousands of refugees (many muslim) from around the world and plopped them down in small town America to help increase “diversity” (can’t have a mjority white population now cna we). Advocate and support reverse discrimination polices of affirmative action (at least did nothing to rid us of the policy). Have done nothing to secure the border. They have tried to increase visas to give away more jobs, encouraged industry to move offshore, and advocate for guest workers. Most republican senators will not support revising the anchor baby misinterpretation of the 14th amendment. Grew entitlement spending more than any dem of the past and never a met a prok project they didnt like all while in the majority. Allowed the libs to dictate the terms of debates and what is acceptable to discuss (aka PC). Then, to top it off, most of the leaders tried to ram amensty of 30M illegal invaders down our throats even though they knew the majority of their base opposed it.
So why should I support this POS party any longer? They move further left each election cycle. What have they done to earn support form conservatives? I will support good pro soveriegnty candidates of any party from now on. But I am independent as the party overall has wandered off the reservation. Mcamnesty has done nothing to earn my vote so he will not get it. Convince him to denounce amensty and take on the policy of Attrition of Illegals while truly securing the borders, then I will fully suppport and campaign for him. Till then, it is the Constitution or Libertarian candidates for me. They at least pretend to be against amnesty (write in candidates are truly a waste if not a concerted effort my millions). You will not convince me otherwise.
No, wrong, no parsing, you pinhead.
I hope I’m not classed as an “arrogant GOP cheerleader”. I am certainly not a McCain fan like the illiterate pinhead suggests.
The GOP deserves to lose, but the consequences of an Obama presidency are just too grave, in my opinion.
If you vote for a third party candidate you will loose.
You will waste your vote.
The definition of insanity is ‘doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. … again and expecting different results.’ And if you think that wasting your vote, and helping to get the greater of two evils elected president is a better alternative then you are stupid and insane.
And when you call people “arrogant GOP cheerleaders” or whatever, people who are telling you the truth and people who do not want a democrat to win, then you are stupid, insane and also a moron.
And your actions please the democrats. Because the end result is a democrat victory. You a ‘conservative’ and the democrats make a beautiful couple.
#116:
And if you vote for McCain and he loses, you wasted your vote. As I just said above, according to this logic, any vote that does not go to the winner is a wasted vote.
#114:
Well that didn’t take too long to devolve to namecalling. Wish I could say I’m surprised.
Gee, something that validates…something like a vote?
I give ‘Weary Citizen’ the benefit of the doubt on that one, that he wasn’t directing that as specific people. I don’t agree with his conclusion to vote third party, but I believe it is a sincere one.
As for Khan, he has either decided the greater of two evils really is better, and running America into the ground under the communists and permanently ruining our country is a fair trade for taking revenge on the Republicans, or he is an Obama moby doing his part for the Dem version of ‘Operation Chaos’. I’m now leaning toward the latter.
LMAO. Well, I did not call you out by name but if the shoe fits which apparently does as you went straight to name calling. Illiterate? Umm, ok, but frankly the fact that I can write indicates I am not illiterate. Maybe you should look up the definition. “Pinhead”? You must be a Bill O’reilly fan. He too has drifted left. Fianlly, you guys hae one argument to vote for mcamensty. “He is better than obama”. That’s it. I gave a long list of reaosns I hate mcamnesty and have given my rationale to not support him. Actual reasons. But you guys never give me reason to vote for him (other than SCOTUS which I have reasonable suspicion there). Anyway, good luck wiht mcamnesty. A vote for him is only delaying the inevitiable collpase under socialism (IMHO).
Hey, Moby, comparing a real American who served in the Armed Forces to Obama isn’t an insult?
Calling people who obviously aren’t terribly pleased with McCain but have decided it isn’t worth destroying America to punish him and the GOP a “McCain cheerleader” ins’t an insult.
Pathetic Obama girl Moby troll.
121 Weary Citizen
Still giving you the benefit of the doubt, as you thought “pinhead” refers to you. It doesn’t, it refers to the Obama girl that calls herself “Khan”.
Well, personally, I’m hoping McCain doesn’t pick a RINO, we get a real Republican VP, and then McCain serves no more than one term.
Letting Obama win, IMHO, will mean the socialist collapse has arrived.
If McCain does pick Crist, Lindsey Graham, Huckster or Lieberman or Bloomberg, then, actually, the lesser of two evil arguments still applies, but it will be awfully difficult convincing anybody who detests McCain into accepting that.
He will lose if he doesn’t select a real Republican.
Anyway, Weary Citizen, I don’t just throw insults at people just because they don’t agree with me.
Ok, peace guys. Look, I get wrapped up in the emotions too. I do believe we want the same thing here. A good leader for our country. Unforutnately, we just don’t have good choices. I am so POed at the GOP fo many reasons, I get blinded to the facts sometimes. But, I won’t vote for mcamnesty becasue” 1) his policies suck 2) I believe the drift leftward will continue if a stand is not made. Much like how Europe ended up with soclialists vs lierals as the only choice. Incrementally. 3) If obummer wins, the country will not fall into the abyss in 4 years. In fact little will change other than hate crimes crap. Obummer will prove to be beatable in 2012. 4) Illegal and mass legal immigration is the biggest menace to the country. Neither candidate is good on this subject. There that’s my ratioanle. May be wrong. But it is mine and I still ave the right to make my own decisions.
You got it, WC. And when faced with critics and criticims, both of their “arguments” and of McCain, they resort to namecalling, personal attacks, strawmen, and trying to paint an opposing viewpoint as one that belongs to a Dem or an Obama supporter. Like McCain, they are intellectually bankrupt.
No one is “trying” to do anything of the sort.
When you don’t do anything to keep Obama out of office, then you are helping Obama get elected.
Your actions please Obama and are the same as voting for him, because this is what will happen.
You’re wrong.
Wow. Arrogance. Ok. Tell me exactly HOW I am wrong. No crap. What policeis do you think obummer will be able to enact that will destroy the country? Be exact. Afterall, you seem to be oh so wise.
I doubt that.
The republicans who voted for Ross Perot as a protest vote against george ‘poppy’ bush are responsible for Bill Clinton getting elected.
Bill Clinton was not a better choice. It was the worse choice. Some people either haven’t learned from their mistakes, are ignorant of history or were not around to see this in the first place.
As I said, if george ‘poppy’ bush was the lesser of three evils, and the people who didn’t vote for him, or voted for Perot gave us Bill Clinton, then they are responsible for Bill Clinton getting elected just as much as if they had voted for Clinton. How did that 8 years of Bill Clinton work out? Great, right?
If george W Bush was the ‘lesser of two evils’ in 2000, then maybe Al Gore should have been elected. How good would have that worked out?
If george W Bush was the ‘lesser of two evils’ than John Kerry, then maybe John Kerry should have been elected. What would the last 4 years of a Kerry presidency turned out like? He would have given Iraq to the terrorists, appointed liberal supreme court justices, worked with the democrats to do exactly what they wanted to do. Wouldn’t that have been so much better than W getting a second term?
Now, in 2008, this election is down to two people. Not three. Not two people and your third party candidate. Not two people and your write in candidate.
Two.
The democrat and the republican primary gave us these two.
Voting or not voting to make yourself ‘feel better’ whileignoring the reality of your actions and the consequences is selfish and self-destructive.
He;s a democrat. What do you think he’s going to do?
For some strange reason, I get this sense of deja vu with this thread.
One huge difference.
Obama would pick more Bader-Ginsburg type judges. The old hag, the former chief ACLU abortion rights lawyer, can’t stay awake during oral arguments anyway, so she’d probably retire next year if Obama wins. He’d select an ideological clone, except one that is in his/her 30s or 40s, that would likely be on the Court until 2050. Souter might decide it is time to retire to Key West or Fire Island. All the old libs would retire, young Marxists would replace them. A possibly filibuster proof Senate majority would confirm them.
Then, if the ‘moderate’ Kennedy, or one of the four constitutionalists dies during Obama’s term, five ACLU lawyers would make the SCOTUS a third branch of Congress, demanding laws, and a second White House, vetoing laws a future Republican or conservative Congress and President might pass.
Obama would slash the military like Bill Clinton did, and would give us a health care entitlement that would probably never go away. Big government bureaucracies rarely go away.
McCain would do a lot of sucky things, like a global warming carbon tax, and a continuation of open borders, but the country would survive. McCain would not nominate ACLU lawyers. He couldn’t get constitutionalists like Roberts or Thomas confirmed in a Democrat Senate anyway, but he’d probably put ‘moderates’, people like Kennedy and O’Connor that vote the correct way about half the time, on the Court.
And McCain is weakly anti-abortion, while Obama is rabidly pro-abortion.
Not much to recommend McCain, really, it really is just that Obama is worse.
Well, bigmouth. You chastise everyone who won’t vote for mcamnesty and ask for a list of reasons. I just laid out many. Asked you to tell me why I am “wrong”. Asked you to convince me to vote for him. I may have truly overlooked something. I am not perfect, and you certainly aren’t. What do I get in response from you? Called a democrat. Not a real answer to my question. You are intellectually bankrup, and a gop kool aid drinking pr*ck. Either respond courteously or STFU. I am sick of your crap frankly. I tried to be polite but you jhust don’t seem to have the capacity. Ed Mahmoud is respectful even though we disagree.
I guess I was right. It is deja vu. *sigh*
Yeah. I see the same trolls who are either stupid conservatives or smart democrats advocating on a conservative site that McCain should loose and Obama should therefore win.
Imagine that.
That’s just what the democrats want.
LOL.
Keep digging your grave, chump.
I am not respectful to democrats on this site what advocate that the democrats succeed, or conservatives on this site who advocate that democrats succeed.
Whichever one you are, concerns me little. The fact that you want Obama to win, and seeming don’t know what the consequences of an Obama presidency to this country will be is amusing. Want to find out? Then vote for him. Or don’t vote for the person who is running against him. Again, its the same thing.
I don’t disagree with you for the most part. Except, I am not confident on SCOTUS nominations. Mcamnesty will nominate a left of center judge at best IMHO. He has shown as much in the past. Also, I am not sure there is a gaurantee he will even have the chance for a nomination in the next 4 years. And even if there is, it will most likely be a liberal member so in the worst case, it will be a wash by not changing the power structure much. As for abortion, I don’t care about the issue. I am probably about even keel with mcamnesty on that one. It is immigriaotn that kills me. Both are about as bad and obama would find many in his party fighting him too. But mcamensty just pushed all the wrong buttons for me on this issue. So, when all is said and done, in my mind, obama is worse (h*ll can’t get more left than him) but a mcamensty win will only push both parties left even further. In 3 or 4 election cycles we will have the choice of an obama vs stalin. Incrementalism is how politics works. About like the Europeans. So I choose to make my stand now while the nation still can turn things around.
Awwww! And, here I was thinking you were ignoring me. Are you just playing coy with me?
By the way, I fixed those egregious mistatements for you in the prior post.
McCain may not have a chance, and he probably wouldn’t nominate good judges even if he could get them past a Dem Senate. But I think the old libs on the courts would jump at the chance to give Obama a chance to replace them with young libs.
I’ll give you an example. Sandra Day O’Connor wasn’t a great justice, IMHO, but apparently she made it clear she wouldn’t retire while Clinton was in the White House, because she didn’t want to be replaced by another Ginsburg. She waited until Bush was in office.
So, McCain may not put anybody on the court, but I think Obama has an excellent chance of replacing retiring libs with young libs that will haunt the nation for half a century.
STRAWMAN!!! Show me where I said “I want obama to win”. Come on. I want to see the quote big mouth. Dem? LOL. “Digging my grave, chump”? What the h*ll does that mean? Is it a veiled threat? Or are you the 10 year old I suspect you are? really, that is the best you can do. Answer my questions. But you never do. You simply resort to name calling. You are truly one repulsive annoying human being.
It may be more fun, but insulting people who disagree is rarely a good way of persuading them to see things your way.
Interesting. Never thought of that. Something else to consider. Thanks for the cogent thought. Just wish others who share your decision actually used rational thought to convince others. Not bullying or name calling.
Wise Man and Weary Citizen will not be on each other’s Christmas card list, I suspect.
Weary Citizen if you don’t lift a finger to keep Obama from winning the white house in 2008, then you are by your inactions helping him to win because all of the people’s votes for Obama will be counted against all the people’s votes for McCain and the person with the higher electoral count from each state’s popular vote will win. If you and others don’t participate, and the vote is close, then your inaction, or protest vote or write in candidate for your pick for the republican primary that lost will ensure that Obama will win.
So, what part of this do you not understand?
Unfortunately, it seems to have become a prevailing marketing strategy, as of late, I am afraid.
But, you are quite correct, Ed, it doesn’t do anything for swaying potential voters.
Idiots who act idiotic and participate in allowing the greater of two evils to prevail need to be called what they are. Idiots.
I could call the people who from their actions or inactions help to make an Obama presidency a reality misguided, but when they know better, when someone has been trying to tell them the results of their actions for weeks, and is called a ‘gop cheerleader’ or koolaid drinker, then the only descriptive left is that of ‘idiot.’
#145:
Good point. Calling them pinheads is the preferred route, right?
What part of repeating yourself over and over don’t you understand. Give it up, it does not work. At least come up with a list of argumetns like Ed did. Jesus Christ!!! You are like my 93 year old step father who bores everyone with the same stories. Using this same old tired argument is tantamount to the amensty supporters telling us over and over that “we can’t deport 12M people so we must give amnesty” or the old “nation of immigrants”, or “doing jobs Americans won’t do” etc. There were other options so their argument is BS and so is yours.
151 Obama Girl
In your case, yes.
Ed Mahmoud, one last point then I am out of here. Tired of beating this dead horse. You mention you hope mcamensty only takes 1 term. If he guaranteed 1 term and picked a very conservative VP, that might be the tipping point for me. I might hoild my nose in the end. Still no guarantee, but I think I could live with the guy (I so hate him) over obama for 4 years.
153,
cf. #128
Wise_man still seems incapable of learning that he can’t convince anyone by calling them names. He seems incapable of understanding that if he has good arguments, that alone will win people over. Unfortunately, there just aren’t many good arguments for voting FOR McCain as opposed to voting AGAINST Obama, and wise_man is far from mastering the art of charming people…
Either candidate as President is going to lead us further down the road to socialism, bigger government, higher taxes and less personal freedom. At this point with McCain seeming to move more to the left every day, I don’t think it’ll make much difference – conservatives will have to fight tooth and nail against either one.
Agreed. I’m trying to convince myself to vote for McCain to keep Obama out of office. But, I get tired of voting for the “lesser of two evils.”
The idea of the mantra “Our candidates sucks but theirs sucks worse” isn’t exactly a ringing endorsement that just makes me want to run to the polls to represent McCain.
Unfortunately, the whole primary season was much of the same for me. There really wasn’t a great deal of inspiration for me at all this year, at any point.
Some of the folks with cogent arguments might sway me. But, I cannot be coerced into voting for anyone. Voters have to be swayed to one of the camps. I’m not a masochist. So, trying to b-slap me around (figuratively speaking) won’t bring me to one’s side.
#157:
If it’s liberty you cherish and one who will uphold and apply the Constitution, then I think Bob Barr is your candidate on the ballot, and Ron Paul is your candidate as a write-in. Those are the only two choices to me.
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I notice, *still* no answer to comment #77….
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Surely this is easy for the big brains among us. (I was going to list people like wise_man, who when he’s not “FU”-ing random people enjoys the sport of calling them stupid… but I didn’t think it nice to point it out… :-p
)
Oh well, you probably just didn’t see it…. Let me make it easy for you:†
†
the above quote has been edited by the author for readability and to place emphasis for ease of understanding in consideration of the McCainanites obvious inability to read and/or comprehend English
Anyway, Lets press this home. We need to insist on an answer to this! This question relates **directly** to the credibility of these people who insist that we *must* vote for McCain!</strong?
The response of these McCainites will tell us if these people are serious or are simply agent provocateur for The Mighty McCain.
BTW, make sure to watch The Mighty McCain’s interview… fun statement: it all right that prices get sky high, just more slowly! (Today show, today)!
What’s NOT to love about The McCain!
You guys **KNOW** they won’t answer the “My Question” in the quote above!
You’ve been waiting since 1:58am this morning, Martin.
I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting on a reply now. The odds are against it. But, stranger things have happended, I guess.
happendedhappenedmartin, I think the same way you do. There is no stopping the continued drift leftward if we keep voting for these guys. If mcamnesty gets in for 2 terms (god forbid) the next gop candidate will be HRC. If she wins then Obama will become the gop flag bearer. And of course the dems will have to out left the repubs so they will get some gay, half black, half hispanic “moderate muslim” woman that is a professed communist. Of course I am stretching but it is only a matter of degrees leftward, not if. This can only end badly for future generations. It is now or never to stop this nonsense or get a viable conservative 3rd party a strong foothold.
RE: Barry F. #157, Khan #158
Agreed.
I find the guy quoting quoting Patton , (Gabe, I believe…), quite funny. Patton would’ve slapped him (& McCain, too, perhaps) around.
My real problem w/ The Mighty McCain™ is the more he opens his yap the more he seems a wilier Obama clone.
Where is the difference? I *know* people say that his difference in a strong defense.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
When McCain vomits out…
… closing Gitmo,
fights to give jihadists full (and more) rights,
… promises that if anyone could find his LaRaza contact saying anything in the “Mexico 1st & always” column, he’d fire him — then *pointedly* doesn’t
… wants to stop or take “excessive” profits
… refuses to protect the borders, allowing the jihadist easy access to the common unarmed citizen
… chairs a virulent anti-handgun organization
… lies to the Conservative PAC
… says he’ll nominate Conservative Judges, but not of the same cloth as Alito
… Says he likes Bush’s tax-cuts, but wants to freeze the economy with the hidden taxes of Kneecap & trade™
.. shows a disturbing tendency to love the people who want to destroy the country — as long as they use the LAWS to do it, and not bombs
… and the list goes on… and on… and on…
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Do the people who harangue us with philippic invective realize that when The Mighty McCain™ freezes the economy the military won’t be able to run?
If McCain’s Kneecap & Trade™ bill becomes law — because the GOP will *only reluctantly* fight the head-of-party; or if The Mighty McCain™ succeeds in taking “excessive” profits of oil companies, or the CEO, or vetoes the “Drill Now, Drill Here” bill, as he stated he would just yesterday there will be no oil for the military. Any real fight w/the M.E. they will cut off our oil.
If somehow, we still get oil for the military from Canada & Mexico, there is problem of an economy ground to a halt by carbon taxes. No money, due to a stag-flated economy, there will be only
2 choice:
1) the military will be ordered to stand down. They *will want to fight*, but the Dem congress will do it anyway.
2) the military will be frozen in place while we wait for the fiscal year to roll in October.
Therefore, McCain’s so-called “Strong on Defense”© stand is shown to be only as strong as fog.
The more time goes on, the more it becomes obvious that a difference that makes no difference *is* no difference. Just a different road to the same terminus. If McCain really is different, then let these fire-breathing McCainanites show us: with reason arguments, *not* with inveighing vituperation, seeking to compensate for lack of facts by browbeating us who Stand on Principle or on Conscience with hector tactics.
You can tell a lot about a politician by the actions of supporters. That is the argument of those opposing the O’Bomb’r. Ok, I’ll take them at their word, (as I actually agree with that sentiment as well..).
What does it say about these people who disparage Principle, vilipend Conscience and superciliously denigrate our motives?
What does it say about their candidate — who seems as ready to lead in these antics as his followers are to follow?
It is all well & good to say: “suck-it-up”, and “don’t be a baby, letting a few names dissuade you”; but when a candidate holds the people he deals with — those who are dealing in good faith — in such great contempt, while simultaneously elevating in his esteem those who are deserving of contempt; isn’t this a flashing red light that there is something wrong? Add to that the attempt to stampede those of us who ask “whats so great about McCain” into throwing our vote away to assist the GOP commit seppuku… well, lets say I never was enthused about acting as a second.
I wonder, also… [un]wise_man, et al: do you get BONUS points for baseless-ness and nastiness?
Well, I have to start the charcoals, we’re grilling **steaks** tonight!
— martin.musculus
Walking through from bathroom back to the patio…
Well, yes, but I thought it impolite to apply that term to you… regardless that its right on target…
Steaks are about done…
We like’em rare here!
What about you?
– martin.musculus
Being better is the sole reason I need to vote for any candidate in any general election. In a primary election, vote for the best candidate. In a general election, vote for the better candidate.
This isn’t rocket science or brain surgery and you don’t need to stay in a Holiday Inn Express to get it.
Leave the emotion out of it. Voting your emotions and not your brains is what liberals and girly men do. Don’t make it more complex that it is: McCain or D’ohbama.
Die, I do leave emotion out of it.
Answer the question in post #159.
I can’t take seriously anyone who’s Straight Talk™ is of the same quality as [un]wise_man’s.
Looking over your posts, I think I might have hastily concluded you were of similarly poor cloth. I’m extending this olive branch just in case you are of a more reasonable order.
If you are, I would like you, and those of us who need to be convinced that a McCain vote isn’t buying-a-pig-in-a-poke to find a quiet corner, (if Ms Malkin would rather not, I’ll start a place on Wordpress…), and discuss it.
If we can find a way to pull the GOP back to actual Conservatism, in spite of voting McCain to win, it might be possible to persuade us.
It seems the tipping-point is the positive-feedback loop the GOP is in because of LOTE candidates.
If we can find a reliable prospect to reverse the trend, voting for McCain might not be impossible.
But, honestly, the only thing you take with you when you leave this world is your principles. I will no longer sell mine to LOTE candidates.
– martin.musculus
Is that like DamnYankee? Wait, maybe it’s not. Hmmmm.
I am really glad I wasn’t around today.
Anyone who claims someone’s vote FOR a candidate is responsible for a different candidate being elected has no morals, reason or integrity and doesn’t have a clue what this great country was founded upon.
How DARE you tell anyone that their vote doesn’t count or somehow automatically elected someone else!
martin – excellent posts. Very cogent and quite moving.
Well, it’s pretty apparent that Conservatives are eating their own right now. We’re no better than the liberals.
Let me see if I can summarize this:
Those who support McCain: are looked at by those who are anti-McCain as those who aren’t faithful to the “Conservative cause” or try to force their viewpoint down the throats of those who are anti-McCain.
Those who don’t support McCain: are disappointed that Tancrado and people like me have taken a pragmatic, reluctant approach and will (probably) vote for McCain. They think that because we’re making a vote for or against one of the lesser evils that it will be a “wasted vote.” Just as those who support McCain who think those who write in another candidate’s name or vote third party are wasting a vote. Both groups are hanging on the same reasons, as ironic as that is.
When I see all this in-fighting, which I’ve participated in, I’m heartbroken. Having a husband in the military, makes my vote have a slightly different meaning for me. I know that Obummer will downsize the military… do everything he can to embarrass the military. He’s already got the likes of Merrill McPeak as a military advisor, the Air Forces worst chief in a generation. He did nothing but reinvent the blues that airmen wear.
Since, I’m just tired of it, I will ask those anti-McCain folks a few questions:
1. If McCain doesn’t win… will such a loss be persuasive enough to convince the RNC that it’s time to refocus the party on Conservative values?
2. Will a McCain loss continue to convince state Republican parties that it’s time to rebuild, or like Hawaii be pretty much non-existent?
3. Will an Obummer win encourage the coming of another Reagan?
4. Can we afford to wait 1 or 2 terms for the “right” president? Or will Obummer have the power to enact more entitlement spending that will be hard to reverse, what with much of the country so dependent on freebies as it is?
5. Do you want to finish Iraq… make sure it prospers or just abandon it to shame the military?
6. What if the RNC and GOP elites continue down the path they’re on now? What should/could be done?
7. Will you consider forming, perhaps, a Constitution/Conservative party?
I’m asking these questions out of curiosity and not fear or guilt mongering. As a military spouse, I’ve seen what Clinton did to the military. It wasn’t pretty. While the military is under strain, it is resilient. However, leaders like Merrill McPeak, who was a terrible, bend-over, do nothing will cripple the military further.
I wish that we could all just discuss this and weigh our options. I guess we keep going around and around with no end. It’s to be expected because it appears that not only are the American people apathetic to politics but so are its political parties. There’s a general laziness in the selection process on both sides…. I’m worried that that continued “apathy” or complacency will ensure that liberals will further diminish the things that we can be proud in…. like the military.
I’m trying to make sense out of all this, like the rest of you. It’s just that, why does the continued angry rangling (on both sides) make the future of our country seem so hopeless for people like me and my husband? I’ve never felt so powerless and so scared.
BTW, I do not like McCain…I wish that he had never been chosen. Since he’s running such a passive, slipshod campaign, it would appear that McCain will lose even if it turns out that the election becomes close.
Please see #s 159, 163 166.
Particularly (as mil. dependents) see 163.
My sponsor is my wife, (Maj USAF surgeon) .
My offer to rationally discuss this is open.
In addition, I have addressed this issue in pieces through out comments on this site.
The reality is McCain is packaged as pro-military, put he’s also is & has been packaged as a “Reagan Conservative”.
#163 particularly touches on why what seems like a simple binary decision is really anything but that.
I remember the Clinton years, where a cash-starved USAF had to pass working parts from plane to plane, chopper to chopper, etc for each to get the required log time as a “working” piece of equip. My wife wasn’t allowed to qualify because they couldn’t afford the ammo. She was sent on remotes that regs *required* side arms — but they weren’t issued fr the same reason!
The Rs n congress are absolute lions, (excluding those like Spector or Snow, of course), when the POTUS is a D, but shy wallflowers when he’s an R. If it turns out that McCain’s packaging on Military is as phony as the rest, the congressionl Rs will run &hide.
Or, if his good buddy Teddy K says: “you know John, the apple of your legacy’s eye you’ve been pushing won’t pass unless you play ball and *quietly* allow us to defund these military/defense development programs, whatcha say My Good Friend?” John McCain, who has only shown consistancy in supporting John McCain will slip in his own slobbering over Kennedy to agree.
He doesn’t believe in the “Star Wars” stuff, he sat **quiet** while Clinton absolutely decimated the Military! At the time he was chairman of the commitee! Not a peep! Crickets!
Have you lived in on base housing? I have. Have you noticed how delapadated it is? Thank John! It was part of the funding he thought was “pork!” For example: while we were stationed at Lackland, you could *see sky through the roof!* NO FUNDS FOR REPAIR!
Typing this from my PDA, & its buffer is full. Continued next comment…
– martin.musculus
NB: continued from #171.
My spouse was returning CONUS, so we got right on base, and yes, we didn’t *have* to stay on base. But that misses the point… that being that *someone* would have had to live there. I had the skills and used our own funds to fix things like that.
What I’m saying is McCain claims lots of things, though O’Bomb’r does too. It comes down to: will the Congressmen fight against POTUS when needed?
It took melting the phone system on Capital Hill to get action from the Rs with GWB as POTUS. Even though he’s Lame Duck, they are slow to start to “Fight the Good Fight”. And they are starting to show the same behaviour with McCain — and he’s not even elected POTUS yet!!
I’ve been a Republican since I voted against Stevenson for Ike. It was my 1st LOTE vote: Ike wasn’t a conservative, after all…
I would really like to get a discussion going as to how we can get a better leverage on McCain, that would circumvent these problems. It might also allow us to come up with a way keep the election of McCain from acting as positive feedback.
That’s been very hard w/the rabblerousing McCaininites here.
You state that both sides say the same things, (condensing because of PDA’s buffer space…) — but though true of some of us “Anti-McCains”, it just seems so.
We posit questons and instead of answering our listed concerns, (yes, if you look you’ll see many of us have posted lists!), we receive invective, denigration, abuse. We’re FU-ed and ST?P-ed.
So, after weeks of this, some of us answer in kind. Not all, and not always. Is it any wonder?
A somewhat typical exmple is wise_man, who will whine he’s being libelled, accuse a person who *hasn’t* posted, claim others are lying about him and still others are mischaracterizing him — then merrily perform those feats to the people on the thread.
He honestly sounds like Obama! Really! I don’t, (in this case) state it as a put-down, but say it in simple amaze. (buffer full again)
– martin.musculus
NB: continued from #172.
(You’d think that Palm’s LifeDrive would have a decent browser…
)
Reading wise_man’s comments is somewhat reminiscent of watching Rich Little mimicking Don Rickles…
I hope that we (collectively) can draw together.
I was listening to Limbaugh a few days ago, his monologue was about the faux conservative, and how we must root them out. Believe it or not, there really is such a person as a “true conservative”.
I have also noticed that these faux conservatives tend to be the ones most offended when accused of such.
That really isn’t necessary. All that is needed to prove one’s bonafides is to be able to state the philosophy of conservatism. Easy enough if you’ve read some of it. I’ve purposely thrown out the names of philosophers who decidedly weren’t conservative, to see what many of these people were about. More often than not they bit and sang the praises of the author I placed in front of them. Some time when I do this I’m think I’ll place Mao or Lenin and see if they bite on that
,too.
Well, time to get some work done…
I hope this helps. I look forward to your response.
– martin.musculus
First, I don’t want obummer to win. That is a fact. I will not vote for mcamensty either. I will vote for the CONSTITUTION Party. There is one in existence so no need to form. The candidate is Pastor Chuck Baldwin. A true conservative. You will find articles by him at newswithviews.com. He is strong against my by far #1 concern, Immigration. Illegals and their anchor babies, as well as the legal immigraiton of illterates who don’t even speak english, into the country will break the treasury. Most all real studies show their is no net gain to Americans of uneducated immigration. So we gain nothing while incurring risk of moving toward socilaism to support them all. I will no longer support the 2 party system by voting for someone just because they have an “R” by their name. Means nothing any longer. Therefore, I would love to see a conservative 3rd party gain momentum and become a future contender (though I know they can’t win now). If enough people vote their beleifs and 3rd parties have a good showing the momentum will pick up. The current 2 parties are failing a large consittuency.
I don’t know if the RNC would change as a result of a mcamnesty loss. Given they are indifferent to our discontent now, probably not. However, a mcamensty win with the conservative support only justifies the continued drift left to the out of touch leaders. Especailly, their misguided support of illegal and mass immigration. I say again, what differnce does it make to fight muslim’s all around the world if our idiot leaders continue to import the enemies by the millions into the country via immigration and refugees? Call me a biggot but I don’t trust muslims. Everywhere they have gained a strong foothold in a population, violence and unrest follows. Not specualtion, fact.
I understand your concern for the military. However, we survived Clinton and we will survive either of these bad candidates for 4 or 8 years. As far as Iraq, we should secure the country. However, “shame” is an emotion and is definitely not a reson to fight a war. Emotions get people killed. Objectivity is key in the decision. It can not be open ended either as mcamnesty states. Nations have gone broke fighting endless wars. Enough on that.
Mcamnesty will not be any better than obama on entitlement spending. He is a “compassionate conservative” like bush. I think the repubs in the congress would even fight harder against obama than mcamnesty on more entitlement spending. In either case, entitlement spending will grow.
In the end, I don’t want a D or an R to win. I prefer and R, but we now must decide to continue status quo or drift further left wiht the R’s or try to make real change and have a real choice in future elections wiht either a new party or a reformed R party. Either is fine, but this just can not continue. Otherwise, the long term health of our country is in great peril.