On June 12th, 2008 at 2:47 am, emjem24 said:

First, I don’t want obummer to win. That is a fact. I will not vote for mcamensty either. I will vote for the CONSTITUTION Party. There is one in existence so no need to form. The candidate is Pastor Chuck Baldwin. A true conservative. You will find articles by him at newswithviews.com. He is strong against my by far #1 concern, Immigration. Illegals and their anchor babies, as well as the legal immigraiton of illterates who don’t even speak english, into the country will break the treasury. Most all real studies show their is no net gain to Americans of uneducated immigration. So we gain nothing while incurring risk of moving toward socilaism to support them all. I will no longer support the 2 party system by voting for someone just because they have an “R” by their name. Means nothing any longer. Therefore, I would love to see a conservative 3rd party gain momentum and become a future contender (though I know they can’t win now). If enough people vote their beleifs and 3rd parties have a good showing the momentum will pick up. The current 2 parties are failing a large consittuency.

I don’t know if the RNC would change as a result of a mcamnesty loss. Given they are indifferent to our discontent now, probably not. However, a mcamensty win with the conservative support only justifies the continued drift left to the out of touch leaders. Especailly, their misguided support of illegal and mass immigration. I say again, what differnce does it make to fight muslim’s all around the world if our idiot leaders continue to import the enemies by the millions into the country via immigration and refugees? Call me a biggot but I don’t trust muslims. Everywhere they have gained a strong foothold in a population, violence and unrest follows. Not specualtion, fact.

I understand your concern for the military. However, we survived Clinton and we will survive either of these bad candidates for 4 or 8 years. As far as Iraq, we should secure the country. However, “shame” is an emotion and is definitely not a reson to fight a war. Emotions get people killed. Objectivity is key in the decision. It can not be open ended either as mcamnesty states. Nations have gone broke fighting endless wars. Enough on that.

Mcamnesty will not be any better than obama on entitlement spending. He is a “compassionate conservative” like bush. I think the repubs in the congress would even fight harder against obama than mcamnesty on more entitlement spending. In either case, entitlement spending will grow.

In the end, I don’t want a D or an R to win. I prefer and R, but we now must decide to continue status quo or drift further left wiht the R’s or try to make real change and have a real choice in future elections wiht either a new party or a reformed R party. Either is fine, but this just can not continue. Otherwise, the long term health of our country is in great peril.

(You’d think that Palm’s LifeDrive would have a decent browser… )

Reading wise_man’s comments is somewhat reminiscent of watching Rich Little mimicking Don Rickles…

I hope that we (collectively) can draw together.

I was listening to Limbaugh a few days ago, his monologue was about the faux conservative, and how we must root them out. Believe it or not, there really is such a person as a “true conservative”.

I have also noticed that these faux conservatives tend to be the ones most offended when accused of such.

That really isn’t necessary. All that is needed to prove one’s bonafides is to be able to state the philosophy of conservatism. Easy enough if you’ve read some of it. I’ve purposely thrown out the names of philosophers who decidedly weren’t conservative, to see what many of these people were about. More often than not they bit and sang the praises of the author I placed in front of them. Some time when I do this I’m think I’ll place Mao or Lenin and see if they bite on that ,too.

Well, time to get some work done…

I hope this helps. I look forward to your response.

– martin.musculus

My spouse was returning CONUS, so we got right on base, and yes, we didn’t *have* to stay on base. But that misses the point… that being that *someone* would have had to live there. I had the skills and used our own funds to fix things like that.

What I’m saying is McCain claims lots of things, though O’Bomb’r does too. It comes down to: will the Congressmen fight against POTUS when needed?

It took melting the phone system on Capital Hill to get action from the Rs with GWB as POTUS. Even though he’s Lame Duck, they are slow to start to “Fight the Good Fight”. And they are starting to show the same behaviour with McCain — and he’s not even elected POTUS yet!!

I’ve been a Republican since I voted against Stevenson for Ike. It was my 1st LOTE vote: Ike wasn’t a conservative, after all…

I would really like to get a discussion going as to how we can get a better leverage on McCain, that would circumvent these problems. It might also allow us to come up with a way keep the election of McCain from acting as positive feedback.

That’s been very hard w/the rabblerousing McCaininites here.

You state that both sides say the same things, (condensing because of PDA’s buffer space…) — but though true of some of us “Anti-McCains”, it just seems so.

We posit questons and instead of answering our listed concerns, (yes, if you look you’ll see many of us have posted lists!), we receive invective, denigration, abuse. We’re FU-ed and ST?P-ed.

So, after weeks of this, some of us answer in kind. Not all, and not always. Is it any wonder?

A somewhat typical exmple is wise_man, who will whine he’s being libelled, accuse a person who *hasn’t* posted, claim others are lying about him and still others are mischaracterizing him — then merrily perform those feats to the people on the thread.

He honestly sounds like Obama! Really! I don’t, (in this case) state it as a put-down, but say it in simple amaze. (buffer full again)

– martin.musculus

Particularly (as mil. dependents) see 163.

My sponsor is my wife, (Maj USAF surgeon) .

My offer to rationally discuss this is open.

In addition, I have addressed this issue in pieces through out comments on this site.

The reality is McCain is packaged as pro-military, put he’s also is & has been packaged as a “Reagan Conservative”.

#163 particularly touches on why what seems like a simple binary decision is really anything but that.

I remember the Clinton years, where a cash-starved USAF had to pass working parts from plane to plane, chopper to chopper, etc for each to get the required log time as a “working” piece of equip. My wife wasn’t allowed to qualify because they couldn’t afford the ammo. She was sent on remotes that regs *required* side arms — but they weren’t issued fr the same reason!

The Rs n congress are absolute lions, (excluding those like Spector or Snow, of course), when the POTUS is a D, but shy wallflowers when he’s an R. If it turns out that McCain’s packaging on Military is as phony as the rest, the congressionl Rs will run &hide.

Or, if his good buddy Teddy K says: “you know John, the apple of your legacy’s eye you’ve been pushing won’t pass unless you play ball and *quietly* allow us to defund these military/defense development programs, whatcha say My Good Friend?” John McCain, who has only shown consistancy in supporting John McCain will slip in his own slobbering over Kennedy to agree.

He doesn’t believe in the “Star Wars” stuff, he sat **quiet** while Clinton absolutely decimated the Military! At the time he was chairman of the commitee! Not a peep! Crickets!

Have you lived in on base housing? I have. Have you noticed how delapadated it is? Thank John! It was part of the funding he thought was “pork!” For example: while we were stationed at Lackland, you could *see sky through the roof!* NO FUNDS FOR REPAIR!

Typing this from my PDA, & its buffer is full. Continued next comment…

– martin.musculus

Let me see if I can summarize this:

Those who support McCain: are looked at by those who are anti-McCain as those who aren’t faithful to the “Conservative cause” or try to force their viewpoint down the throats of those who are anti-McCain.

Those who don’t support McCain: are disappointed that Tancrado and people like me have taken a pragmatic, reluctant approach and will (probably) vote for McCain. They think that because we’re making a vote for or against one of the lesser evils that it will be a “wasted vote.” Just as those who support McCain who think those who write in another candidate’s name or vote third party are wasting a vote. Both groups are hanging on the same reasons, as ironic as that is.

When I see all this in-fighting, which I’ve participated in, I’m heartbroken. Having a husband in the military, makes my vote have a slightly different meaning for me. I know that Obummer will downsize the military… do everything he can to embarrass the military. He’s already got the likes of Merrill McPeak as a military advisor, the Air Forces worst chief in a generation. He did nothing but reinvent the blues that airmen wear.

Since, I’m just tired of it, I will ask those anti-McCain folks a few questions:

1. If McCain doesn’t win… will such a loss be persuasive enough to convince the RNC that it’s time to refocus the party on Conservative values?

2. Will a McCain loss continue to convince state Republican parties that it’s time to rebuild, or like Hawaii be pretty much non-existent?

3. Will an Obummer win encourage the coming of another Reagan?

4. Can we afford to wait 1 or 2 terms for the “right” president? Or will Obummer have the power to enact more entitlement spending that will be hard to reverse, what with much of the country so dependent on freebies as it is?

5. Do you want to finish Iraq… make sure it prospers or just abandon it to shame the military?

6. What if the RNC and GOP elites continue down the path they’re on now? What should/could be done?

7. Will you consider forming, perhaps, a Constitution/Conservative party?

I’m asking these questions out of curiosity and not fear or guilt mongering. As a military spouse, I’ve seen what Clinton did to the military. It wasn’t pretty. While the military is under strain, it is resilient. However, leaders like Merrill McPeak, who was a terrible, bend-over, do nothing will cripple the military further.

I wish that we could all just discuss this and weigh our options. I guess we keep going around and around with no end. It’s to be expected because it appears that not only are the American people apathetic to politics but so are its political parties. There’s a general laziness in the selection process on both sides…. I’m worried that that continued “apathy” or complacency will ensure that liberals will further diminish the things that we can be proud in…. like the military.

I’m trying to make sense out of all this, like the rest of you. It’s just that, why does the continued angry rangling (on both sides) make the future of our country seem so hopeless for people like me and my husband? I’ve never felt so powerless and so scared.

BTW, I do not like McCain…I wish that he had never been chosen. Since he’s running such a passive, slipshod campaign, it would appear that McCain will lose even if it turns out that the election becomes close.

Anyone who claims someone’s vote FOR a candidate is responsible for a different candidate being elected has no morals, reason or integrity and doesn’t have a clue what this great country was founded upon.

How DARE you tell anyone that their vote doesn’t count or somehow automatically elected someone else!

On June 10th, 2008 at 8:29 pm, lukespapa said:
“radical” is an unecessary adjective before the term islam…it is what it is and has always been since the 7th century.

Is that like DamnYankee? Wait, maybe it’s not. Hmmmm.

Answer the question in post #159.

I can’t take seriously anyone who’s Straight Talk™ is of the same quality as [un]wise_man’s.

Looking over your posts, I think I might have hastily concluded you were of similarly poor cloth. I’m extending this olive branch just in case you are of a more reasonable order.

If you are, I would like you, and those of us who need to be convinced that a McCain vote isn’t buying-a-pig-in-a-poke to find a quiet corner, (if Ms Malkin would rather not, I’ll start a place on Wordpress…), and discuss it.

If we can find a way to pull the GOP back to actual Conservatism, in spite of voting McCain to win, it might be possible to persuade us.

It seems the tipping-point is the positive-feedback loop the GOP is in because of LOTE candidates.

If we can find a reliable prospect to reverse the trend, voting for McCain might not be impossible.

But, honestly, the only thing you take with you when you leave this world is your principles. I will no longer sell mine to LOTE candidates.

– martin.musculus

Fianlly, you guys hae one argument to vote for mcamensty. “He is better than obama”.

Being better is the sole reason I need to vote for any candidate in any general election. In a primary election, vote for the best candidate. In a general election, vote for the better candidate.

This isn’t rocket science or brain surgery and you don’t need to stay in a Holiday Inn Express to get it.

Leave the emotion out of it. Voting your emotions and not your brains is what liberals and girly men do. Don’t make it more complex that it is: McCain or D’ohbama.

On June 11th, 2008 at 12:35 pm, wise_man said:
…and is called a ‘gop cheerleader’ or koolaid drinker, then the only descriptive left is that of ‘idiot.’

Well, yes, but I thought it impolite to apply that term to you… regardless that its right on target…

Steaks are about done… We like’em rare here!

What about you?

– martin.musculus

Agreed.

I find the guy quoting quoting Patton , (Gabe, I believe…), quite funny. Patton would’ve slapped him (& McCain, too, perhaps) around.

My real problem w/ The Mighty McCain™ is the more he opens his yap the more he seems a wilier Obama clone.

Where is the difference? I *know* people say that his difference in a strong defense.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

When McCain vomits out…
… closing Gitmo,
fights to give jihadists full (and more) rights,

… promises that if anyone could find his LaRaza contact saying anything in the “Mexico 1st & always” column, he’d fire him — then *pointedly* doesn’t

… wants to stop or take “excessive” profits

… refuses to protect the borders, allowing the jihadist easy access to the common unarmed citizen

… chairs a virulent anti-handgun organization

… lies to the Conservative PAC

… says he’ll nominate Conservative Judges, but not of the same cloth as Alito

… Says he likes Bush’s tax-cuts, but wants to freeze the economy with the hidden taxes of Kneecap & trade™

.. shows a disturbing tendency to love the people who want to destroy the country — as long as they use the LAWS to do it, and not bombs

… and the list goes on… and on… and on…

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Do the people who harangue us with philippic invective realize that when The Mighty McCain™ freezes the economy the military won’t be able to run?

If McCain’s Kneecap & Trade™ bill becomes law — because the GOP will *only reluctantly* fight the head-of-party; or if The Mighty McCain™ succeeds in taking “excessive” profits of oil companies, or the CEO, or vetoes the “Drill Now, Drill Here” bill, as he stated he would just yesterday there will be no oil for the military. Any real fight w/the M.E. they will cut off our oil.

If somehow, we still get oil for the military from Canada & Mexico, there is problem of an economy ground to a halt by carbon taxes. No money, due to a stag-flated economy, there will be only
2 choice:
1) the military will be ordered to stand down. They *will want to fight*, but the Dem congress will do it anyway.

2) the military will be frozen in place while we wait for the fiscal year to roll in October.

Therefore, McCain’s so-called “Strong on Defense”© stand is shown to be only as strong as fog.

The more time goes on, the more it becomes obvious that a difference that makes no difference *is* no difference. Just a different road to the same terminus. If McCain really is different, then let these fire-breathing McCainanites show us: with reason arguments, *not* with inveighing vituperation, seeking to compensate for lack of facts by browbeating us who Stand on Principle or on Conscience with hector tactics.

You can tell a lot about a politician by the actions of supporters. That is the argument of those opposing the O’Bomb’r. Ok, I’ll take them at their word, (as I actually agree with that sentiment as well..).

What does it say about these people who disparage Principle, vilipend Conscience and superciliously denigrate our motives?

What does it say about their candidate — who seems as ready to lead in these antics as his followers are to follow?

It is all well & good to say: “suck-it-up”, and “don’t be a baby, letting a few names dissuade you”; but when a candidate holds the people he deals with — those who are dealing in good faith — in such great contempt, while simultaneously elevating in his esteem those who are deserving of contempt; isn’t this a flashing red light that there is something wrong? Add to that the attempt to stampede those of us who ask “whats so great about McCain” into throwing our vote away to assist the GOP commit seppuku… well, lets say I never was enthused about acting as a second.

I wonder, also… [un]wise_man, et al: do you get BONUS points for baseless-ness and nastiness?

Well, I have to start the charcoals, we’re grilling **steaks** tonight!

— martin.musculus