Look up the incident that got Dan Brown to write Digital Fortress, his 1st novel:
supposedly a student got a visit from the Secret Service after joking in an email about “killing Bill Clinton”. NSA supposedly scanned all emails for key phrases.

What, when I posted the facts from the Department of Energy reports, that when asked for citation I gave it?

Citing facts and figures is one thing, quoting large tracts in their entirety is another. I cite facts and figures quite often, but they are as a rule gathered from a variety of sources, and in my own words. You lifted virtually the entirety of two different reports without attribution, in effect claiming them. I don’t mind, but don’t play the victim when somebody else calls you on it. And as far as the above is concerned, you’d have been a lot better off providing a citation, because the whole thing, as presented, is a good example of left wing propaganda (somewhat less so if the part you omitted is included).

What a weak refutation that it was…are you serious?

It wasn’t weak at all, but calling it that is a good way for you to avoid an actual response.

You have a credibility chasm. Let’s see how far down you can dig.

On June 20th, 2008 at 10:18 pm, JHSII said:
now care to comment on the actual argument?
I did, TOS. Refuted it easily.

What a weak refutation that it was…are you serious?

On June 20th, 2008 at 10:43 pm, txvet2 said:
You just did the same thing a while ago on another thread. Once is an oversight, twice is a trend.

What, when I posted the facts from the Department of Energy reports, that when asked for citation I gave it? Like I said I will cite any reference from now on…but you better believe I expect the same of every fact and figure given be everybody else here.

On June 20th, 2008 at 9:20 pm, TheOtherSide said:

My apologizes AlohaGuy…I should have cited the source, but I was not trying to pass it off as my own. I’ll make sure to cite when needed in the future.

Problem is, this isn’t the first time. You just did the same thing a while ago on another thread. Once is an oversight, twice is a trend.

now care to comment on the actual argument?

I did, TOS. Refuted it easily.

Yawn.

I don’t think TOS ever had an A-game. He probably peaked at the L-game. The text he plagiarized–at least a part he conveniently omitted–contains this nugget.

Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and several Latin American regimes.

Maybe TOS thinks the USA is a part of Latin America.

I’m glad to see you did your research in finding the original source, now care to comment on the actual argument?

If you don’t give credit to The People Who Originally Wrote It (one of many places this shows up) then you are plagiarizing.

That’s right, I’m calling you out. That post was written by someone else and you are passing it off as yours. #113, AhaLion gives you props for it too.

Give credit where it’s due and we won’t automatically assume that you are a fraud. (Well ok, we will now.)

Maybe you teach at Columbia…

I’ll just tackle a few of these:

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights – Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of “need.” The people tend to ‘look the other way’ of even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

The “right-wing” has been the biggest supporters of human rights, not just mouthing the words like the left. It’s been the left that’s excused every bit of “torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.” by governments such as the old Soviet Union, Cuba, North Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia, etc.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause – The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe; racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists; terrorists, etc.

You mean we weren’t attacked by terrorists? The Soviet Union was never a threat?
The fact is that the description exactly defines the left and Global Warming or the left and Conservatism.

4.Supremacy of the Military – Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

Remove “military” and insert “social welfare system”; remove “are widespread domestic problems” and insert “declared war against America” and it is correct.

14. Fraudulent Elections – Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against (or even the assassination of) the opposition candidates, the use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and the manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

This is another hallmark of the left and not the right. Look at Florida 2000.

Your idea is correct – but your targets are 180 degrees wrong.

On June 20th, 2008 at 4:43 pm, TheOtherSide said:

On June 20th, 2008 at 4:07 pm, Die Hippie, Die said:

The FISA Reform Act contained the equivalent of a Good Samaritan Law for telecoms.

Or the equivalent of an Ex Post Facto Law which is prohibited under Article I, section 9 of the U.S. Constitution.

No dipstick, an ex post facto law criminalizes an act but does not exempt from prosecution those who engaged in the act before it became illegal.

1.Powerful and Continuing Nationalism – Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

Oh my God! My high school was a fascist regime! The girls on the flag line were storm troopers! The marching band was a platoon of brownshirts. My varsity letter was a swastika! Thank you for opening my eyes TOS!

Seriously, what grade did Prof. Churchill give you on that freshman paper? A+?

If you look solely at the size of government, then sure the American left is closer to Nazism, however that is a pretty short-sided arguments. Looking at the common characteristics of fascists regimes, one tends to see a more right-wing ideology:

1.Powerful and Continuing Nationalism – Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights – Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of “need.” The people tend to ‘look the other way’ of even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause – The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe; racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists; terrorists, etc.

4.Supremacy of the Military – Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

5. Rampant Sexism – The government if fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.

6. Controlled Mass Media – Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or through sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in wartime, is very common.

7. Obsession with National Security – Fear is used as a motivation tool by the government over the masses.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined – Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government’s policies or actions.

9. Corporate Power is Protected – The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders in power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed – Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely or are severely suppressed.

11.Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts – Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment – Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses, and even forego civil liberties, in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption – Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions, and who use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability.

14. Fraudulent Elections – Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against (or even the assassination of) the opposition candidates, the use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and the manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

On June 20th, 2008 at 5:24 pm, Ahh a Lion! said:

Good call JSHII,
The further you travel right, the less government you should get. The further left, the bigger the government gets. Stalin and Hitler were very close ideologically.

It doesn’t matter how many times you make this point, it never sinks in. Hitler was the antithesis of conservatism, but you’ll never see the left admit it. Funny that they still worship Lenin, Stalin, and Mao, given that they were even bigger mass murderers than Hitler.