Storm Chaser said: … I agree it is morally wrong, but the market place has no feelings…..

And I should add, the ‘market place’ you are citing here is NOT a free ‘market place’ because it is subsidized and mandated by liberal government.

Storm Chaser said: … I agree it is morally wrong, but the market place has no feelings…..

No it does not and neither do liberals who tout themselves as the bastions of morality. But here they are endorsing an elitist mandate whereby rich countries like the USA, burning 1/3 of their corn crop in automobiles in order to preclude the, now, very slim chance of an oil spill off the coast of FL or CA etc., — while some children in Afghanistan are eating grass and onion skins from garbage dumps because their village can now only afford 1/2 of the amount of grain it used to buy thus leaving ~somebody~ to starve to death.

Burning fuel in cars raises the price of food, but not all that much.It also helps lower the price of gasoline a bit. Greater world -wide demand is the main driver. Commodity prices will fall eventually, but until they do, some poor people will starve, ethanol or not. I agree it is morally wrong, but the market place has no feelings.

A Danish company has just announced it is building an enzyme plant in Blair, Nebraska. That a foreign company would risk money on an expensive plant taking several years to build implies they know ethanol is a permanent fixture.

When the plant is built, it will sell the enzyme to other ethanol plants. Its product, combined with sunlight speeds and enhances the fermentation process. Nothing will be wasted. By products will feed livestock and people. Maybe as high prices force livestock producers to cut back or leave the business, the by products will be converted to fake steak.

A more promising product is algae. Another company is nearly ready to start production with in a few years. Their reps claim they can make gasoline for a dollar a gallon. My guess is algae by products will also find their way to our dinner plates.

None of these alternative fuels will replace oil or coal any time soon, if ever, but they are like hamburger helper. They stretch the supply. Today, we are trading a somewhat more expensive food for slightly cheaper gasoline.

Iowa’s governor Culver says he wants to turn the state into the Saudi Arabia of alternative energy, and this includes wind power. I think corn is becoming too expensive for it to happen, but his goal is that every kernel of corn Iowa farmers grow stays in Iowa.

He also fails to account for crop damage as during the floods or a much more serious large scale cyclical drought which is overdue to strike the corn belt. What happens if competing interests lay claim to what is assumed to be a steady supply of corn, and there isn’t enough for everyone?

Robert J. Samuelson of the Washington Post wrote that Jeffry Rubin of CIBC World Markets guesses we are near the halfway point of a steady march toward $7.00 gasoline by 2012. He doesn’t mention natural gas who’s price is higher than normal for this time of year. Next winter could be interesting.

Besides the economic threats, we face potential enemies like Russia and Venezualia who’s new wealth will let them become more provocative than they have been.

Rubin says we while we cannot drill our way out of our troubles, we must expand domestic oil production to augment our oil supply and lessen price strains, even if it means taking oil from Central Park.( My words)We also need every bit of alternative energy we can process.

Once prices fall, and they eventually will, we need a price floor which would activate a tariff to keep energy prices high enough so Americans would not again be deluded into thinking we have permanently returned to cheap energy.

Yes, farmers have gotten government support out the wazzoo for generations. It is why we still have grain farmers. There is no free lunch. Someone has to pay. Years of a cheap food policy which subjected farmers to spying, complex regulations and paper work, kept many in business, though as an economist told me, most were earning less per hour than if they had worked at McDonalds. And that was with government subsidies.

One of the intents of ethanol, as I wrote before, was to take farmers off the dole. It was a winner for everyone. Ethanol would eat some of the excess supply of corn while recycling carbon and stretching our oil supply. Higher farm prices meant fewer tax dollars to subsidize farmers.

However, the world changed. The West is losing its status as the major driver of food and energy prices. As Elvis sang “we are caught in a trap.” If we import Brazilian suger based ethanol, we risk further destruction to the rain forests which might influence our weather. We are being reduced to choosing between fuel and food.

There are few good short term choices. Every year, more third world people want and can afford to buy what we have. The world must find more energy and raise more food every year to supply well-armed people who will fight if they get hungry or can’t heat their homes.

Complain all you want about ethanol. We are stuck with it. We are stuck with expensive food and fuel, inflation, near recession, and maybe Obama with the hapless Democratic leadership. A few words on this message board or letters to the editor will change little for the next four to six years.

Welcome to the new world. Lord help us all.

allrsn said: … (we use as many BTU of oil to make ethonal as ethonal gives back)…

To be fair, their argument is that we use domestic power from other sources such as nuke or coal or gas instead of oil to produce the ethanol as a domestic fuel for transportation. What gets totally lost in their ‘equation’ is that the original energy collected from the sun by the corn is virtually tossed out is this ‘exchange process’! IF we had allowed capitalism to continue exploring and drilling over the last 20 odd years we would have had plenty of domestic energy already in the form of transportation fuel and have it on an almost one for one basis rather than WASTING almost that whole amount of energy to convert the solar energy in the corn. But, in addition to that, we’d have that fuel PLUS the energy of that corn that it BEST utilized as food for us and animals – as Nature’s God intended it to be used.

Does anyone really believe that farmers weren’t already getting a lot of government support before the ethanol mandate? Does anyone believe that huge agri-businesses like ADM aren’t the ones reaping the lion’s share of this ethanol mandate swindle?

I do not know how much of our crops we will use, but I do know Iowa expects to import corn and Minnesota will use most of their corn also.

Corn is our staple crop; 2 years ago it was $2.00/bushel last week it topped $8.00 and then dropped to just below $8.00. As farmers start to grow more corn the production of other crops (soy beans, wheat, alfalfa) will decrease and those prices will increase as well.

Corn is used to feed beef and milk cows, chickens and eggs, pork and yes humans.

Our food prices will go thru the roof.

Ethenol does not save oil (we use as many BTU of oil to make ethonal as ethonal gives back) We do not save pollution. We decrease fuel economy.
I have heard, but not yet verified, that communities with ethonal plants are starting to have problems with the water table (production uses a lot of water).

We gain nothing by making and using ethonal but consider its total cost!!!!

Aloha guy, I served with the Tropic Lightning Division and know that cornflakes were not a big deal.

Obama is offering trouble for America, not solutions.

I raise beef and bison in Montana now that I am retired. Obama would kill me with taxes. As he will kill you if you allow him to get elected.

When the powers that be decided we needed to supplement our fuel supply corn was a natural choice. At that time we had a surplus of corn, and some businesses sold corn burning furnaces because the grain was so cheap.

According to a Nebraska economist, the average farmer was earning less per hour than a McDonalds counter person. Ethanol was would supplement our fuel supply and to help the rural economy.

A greater than expected demand for energy and food caught the government and business off guard. No one expected such high prices. The market will not support much more ethanol production under current conditions. Too many other buyers are competing for the corn.

A variety of cheaper replacements for corn will soon be used. Several proposed ethanol plants will not be built because the price of corn is too high . The market will dictate, that corn be phased out if nothing else does.

Little of the distillation process is wasted. Many of the by products feed livestock, and researchers are working on making human food too.

Ethanol is not the problem. it is exacerbating the problem. Get rid of all ethanol production, and you would see a temporary emotion- caused drop in farm comodities, but the price would rise again.

Prices will fall eventually. They always have. If ideal growing conditions give us a better than expected crop, grain will become less expensive. But baring economic disaster, prices will not return to 2005 levels for the next few years. Only a new green revolution, massive drilling, mining, conservation, and nuclear plants will do that.

Until then, raise a garden and book heating fuel early.