How legally to get a gun into DC
Whatever will a law abiding citizen do? After Heller, we know that the District of Columbia’s firearms ban is illegal, and that you have a by-God Constitutional right to keep a handgun in your home to defend your property and your family.
But actually getting a gun in DC–legally–is still rather difficult since there is an understandable shortage of FFL holders in the area.
There is one, however, and the irony is deeeeeee-licious.
Don’t settle for any surly service from them. They’re federally licensed to sell firearms, and they’re supposed to be selling firearms.
Deeeelicious.
_______________________
{Post by See-Dubya. Hat tip to Slublog.}
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Good one see-dubya
Irony thy name is Sugarmann …
I have a question. If you live in DC do you have to buy a gun there or can you buy one someplace else and bring it to DC?
L
Letget–
Do you mean, er, legally?
Can I ask why they would hold a FFL and not plan to sell firearms?
S/D, of course I meant legally! I should have made myself clear with the previous post. If you legally buy a gun, regestered in another state and bring it to DC, why don’t citizens there do it?
L
MtsEdge–
I suspect something nefarious, like snooping on other FFL holders. “Hey, I’m a gun dealer just like you! Let’s talk about overthrowing the government!”
Checking prices and newsletters, entering chat rooms where FFL holders felt free to complain about gun-grabbers.
That sort of thing.
But who knows? He better start moving some ordnance if he wants to keep it, though.
VPC must need the FFl so he can make another public show of my favorite firearms…right?
Heh…
Rusty – here’s a business opportunity staring you in the face! You can get rich in a hurry, and do a patriotic service at the same time.
Aloha,
I believe Rusty is moving to Ohio or something like that in the very near future.
A shame. Because I will probably be moving back there myself in two months or so. Would have liked to grab a beer with him.
I read somewhere that DC will have an amnesty program of sorts for people that have owned a gun illegally (or rather, in contravention of DC’s statute) so that they can register them. I will be very curious to see how many citizens come out of the woodwork. I’ll bet more than DC’s government would expect.
See-Dub, thanks! Just trying to figure this whole thing out…:)
WARNING see-dubya WARNING
You have exceeded your monthly allowable allotment of Lonesome Dove references.
The fine for first time offense is $25.00 made payable to:
Obama for America, P.O. Box 802798, Chicago, IL 60680
Further, please refrain from any and all references to Lonesome Dove, including, but not limited to Pea Eye Parker, until September 1, 2008.
Please note that further violations will result in fines and/or permanent loss of future use of any Dishwater Boggett references.
Sincerely,
President’s Commission on Blogger Pop Culture Fair Usage.
ROFL
June 30, 2008, 1:08PM
Joe Horn cleared by grand jury in Pasadena shootings
Panel issues no-bill after two weeks of testimony
A Harris County grand jury decided today that Joe Horn should not be charged with a crime for shooting two suspected burglars he confronted outside his neighbor’s home in Pasadena last fall.
Aside from the shooting itself, the national debate revolved around the fact that Ortiz and Torres were illegal immigrants from Colombia. Torres had been sent to prison for dealing cocaine and was deported in 1999.
Oh, geez! That’s rich! ROFLMAO
And here I thought you were going to say, get a job with Senator Webb.
How did that case with one of his aides carrying a weapon into Dulles Airport work out, by the way?
Do I smell a lawsuit?
I wonder if the VPC headquarters is zoned to operate a gun store. The ATF has been shutting down FF&L holders who are not permitted to operate a firearm sales business under local zoning laws.
And, as an FF&L holder, he is required to maintain records and adhere to security procedures per ATF regulations. I wonder when the ATF last conducted an audit of VPC headquarters?
Really? He’ll be bored. They don’t do politics 24/7 like they do in DC.
Didn’t the ruling also do away with having to have a gun (like a shot gun) completely broken down, and stored without ammunition?
If so, then it is legal to purchase a long gun and transport it across state lines to a residence. Instead of pistols and revolvers, then why not get a rifle or shot gun in Virginia, and then bring it home and wait for FFL’s to set up shop in D.C. to get a hand gun?
Shot guns and rifles make good home defense weapons too.
BTW I do like the idea of requiring that gum grabber with an FFL to use it to sell some guns.
Am I the only one who sees that as hypocritical? He’s against guns, yet is licensed to sell them? Hmmmm.
I’m quite happy in Oklahoma, where one’s right to keep and bear arms has always been recognized without a lawsuit.
I was quite fond of that aspect of OK, when I was there too, tre.
The Supreme Court wisely noted that with a handgun, you can use one hand to point it at the perp, while keeping the TV remote in the other hand, and channel surfing while you wait for the police.
OK, that wasn’t exactly what they said…
Ok, how does one go about buying a hand gun if one lives in DC? Which state can you claim to be a resident of so one can purchase a hand gun? Rusty? Anyone?
Azygos: Federal law prohibits transferring a handgun to an out-of-state resident. So, a DC resident may only receive a handgun from a DC FFL dealer.
Mayor Fenty said that they would use zoning laws to keep FFLs from operating in DC, so it won’t be possible for a DC resident to legally obtain a handgun.
tc2011,
Thanks for the answer. So one would have to have their own FFL opening ones home to invasion by ATFE. I’d just move it it were me.
What if you move into the District from out of state? Can you bring your guns with you?
see-dubya: Yes, I presume so. But Fenty looks like he’s going to play every technicality he can to obstruct the court’s intent. Maybe he’ll outlaw the carrying of firearms outside the home, even if disassembled and locked? That way, you’d be able to transport firearms into the city under federal transport laws, but couldn’t take them out of your trunk… I kid. Mostly. I think we’re going to see some interesting laws cooked up in DC.
#24 I have legally purchased guns, registered in TX, so you are saying I can not bring my gun across state lines? Do all people who own guns, sell them when they move to another state and buy them in the state they move to? I thought the SC said guns were a right of a citizen to own. I would say the NRA needs to get to the bottom of this, asap.
L
letget: You can take your guns with you, provided they’re legal to own when you arrive.
DISCLAIMER
I am not a lawyer.
Yeah, quit bragging.
Not necessarily. I know for a fact when my father in law inherited some rifles from his mother in Idaho he had to have them shipped from a gun shop in Idaho directly to a gun shop in Connecticut, where he could then claim them (subject, I am sure to showing that he had whatever proper permits were necessary).
Folks, not to sound snide, but this is not a subject in which any of us should be armchair lawyering. I am sure this has very much to do with what state you are currently in and what state you are moving to. If you are moving to a new state you need to call whatever the state regulatory agencies are that deals with firearms and find out straight from the source.
chapoutier: Hence my disclaimer.
But… I’m sure I’m not the only one who thinks it’s a sad state of affairs that we have to say “consult a lawyer if you want to exercise very simple aspects of your rights.”
Chap–I think that was an issue because there was a transfer of ownership involved. Had your father-in-law’s mother moved from Idaho to Connecticut herself, it might have been different.
But you’re right about the armchair lawyering–this is kind of a tricky area.
I think the vast majority of Americans fail to observe the subtleties and nuance of these regulations.
Pop dies in Alabama, and you drive in from Kansas to settle the estate, and throw his deer rifle in the back of the Yukon for the drive home. Nobody knows, nobody cares, except people like the Violence Policy Center.
Figured all you computer savvy folks would have already book marked this website. It’s the ATF FAQ list. Most of your questions are answered here, if you look for the answeres:
http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/faq/index.htm
I don’t know about that. What about truckers who cross state lines all the time. Some, not all, truckers carry hand guns for curtailing highjacks and shootin’ varmits.
And I’m pretty sure those truckers are violating the GCA.
Which is a shame. If I were a long-haul trucker I would be sore tempted to ignore those requirements.
What is the news on the gun grabbing Ray Nagin? Didn’t he have the residents of NO, LA. turn in their guns? Now that the SCOTUS has rulled against the DC gun ban, will the residents be able to get their guns back?
You can only with those states that have specific agreements with Texas. That includes (as I recall) all of the concealed carry states, plus some others. I was looking into carrying my handgun on an upcoming trip. The only state enroute where my concealed carry permit would not be recognized was Ohio. There are a few others. I think you can find this on the state website, or for sure by Googling.
On the other hand, I’ve carried my handgun under the seat on numerous trips, including through Ohio. I’ve been stopped a couple of times, but if you don’t act nervous or stupid, it’s unlikely a cop will decide to search your car.
Folks look up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Firearms_License
There are many types of FFL’s and not all of them relate to being a dealer. Some are for legal use automatics. Maybe this dude is loaded to the gills or something.
I’ve noticed discussions about concealed weapons as well. The laws vary state by state but in general a weapon has to be in ‘lunge range’ to be considered a concealed threat.
In Idaho…for example.
I go out target shooting and place my gun under my car seat or in my glove box. If I get pulled over and there is probable cause to search or a search incident to arrest I can be charged with a concealed weapon (If I don’t have my CWP).
Or
I go out shooting and place the gun in the trunk of my car. If I get pulled over and there is probable cause to search or a search incident to arrest I can not be charged with a concealed weapon.
YMMV in other states….
By the way See-dubya….an outstanding clip from Lonesome Dove. CLASSIC!!!
Dubs you’re right I called up my bud and truckers can’t transport guns across state lines. I have a little story by the way. Goes like this:
Dave the trucker is at a truck stop in Central New York and two goons approach him to ask a question.
“Where ya headed?”, says Goon number one.
Dave replies, “Albany.”
Goon two pulls out a knife and says,”You’re going to Buffalo.”
Dave pulls out a .357 and says, “No, I’m going to Albany.” He jumps in his truck and drives away.
True story.
I tried to put some information in a blog post over at conservative247.org.
Briefly goes through the general rules – some mandated by the feds – for purchasing a pistol at a local dealer and over the Internet (requiring a FFL transfer in your local state).
More here.
What a business opportunity in D.C.!
The reason he had to go through a FFL holder was that he was shipping them from one person to another. Had he driven to CT, picked them up and drove them home, no federal law would have been broken.
Sorry, but there is nothing in the FMCSR that regulates commercial drivers carrying firearms. It’s whatever state and local law (as well as company policy) has to say about it that applies.
I am a life-long DC resident and own firearms. Yes, you can purchase firearms outside DC – it’s what I did. However, before you can take them home, you must apply for registration with the DC police (passport photo and $40) and wait a day or so for approval. Then, you can take your firearm home.
Lonesome Dove – my all time favorite western. America needs men like Woodrow and Augustus right now.
As things stand now the good people of D.C., all four of them, should just buy what they can now and see how it shakes out. Tis better to be judged by twelve than carried by six it is. Buy a rifle, carbine or handgun from a private individual where you can. Come to Arizona, it is legal here. And our crime rate is a whole lot lower than D.C. Factor out the drug gangs from Mexico and it is lower yet.
The Disaster Recovery Personal Protection Act was signed by President Bush not long after the NOLA violations occurred. Then-Congressman Bobby Jindal and the NRA pushed this legislation through Congress and was approved by Pres. Bush in 2006:
This bill prevents anyone working for the feds or working for a group that recieves money from the feds from:
(1) seizing or authorizing seizure of any firearm the possession of which is not prohibited under federal or state law, other than for forfeiture in compliance with federal law or as evidence in a criminal investigation;
2) requiring registration of any firearm for which registration is not required by federal or state law;
(3) prohibiting possession of any firearm in any place or by any person where such possession is not otherwise prohibited; or
(4) prohibiting the carrying of firearms by any person otherwise authorized to carry firearms, solely because such person is operating under the direction, control, or supervision of a federal agency in support of relief from a major disaster or emergency. (Congressional Record)
It appears that it was the feds who violated the 2nd Amendment Rights of those folks, since they are the ones addressed in this piece of legislation.
Another reason for my hopes for a Jindal ticket to the White House someday!
Amen! Those men had common sense and knew reality!
Captain Call on gun ownership:
Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.
See-Dubya, they do in fact carry guns all the time…Long-Haul truckers like a short-barreled .410 shotgun…this is in complete contravention to the fact that the TSA has forbidden them federally to do so…another “gift” from Hamas-loving Jimmy Carter during the 1970s
Why will the myth that truck drivers are prohibited from carrying firearms by the federal government not die? State and local law applies, as well as company policy.
While you may in 28 days posess a handgun, all guns must be registered. This lets them know who owns them when they change the laws and make your gun illegal and come to collect it. If you are really lucky your gun wil not be destroyed before the court rules the law unconstitutional and they will give it back, but not likely.
Also the police chief has said semi-automatic handguns will not be allowed(not that she writes laws). So does that mean only single action rvolvers and does anyone make them anymore? I suspect the next version will be so restrictive that it will be an effective ban on handguns again and will go right back to the Supreme Court. They love to waste money on these little games. If they can put it off another year and show they are puting up a fight, they are able to raise more money to up the courts with this garbage.
Just add this to the 999999 other reasons not to live in DC. Virginia is a much better place to live. It must be, “Virginia is for Lovers!” And they love gun owners!
While you may in 28 days posess a handgun, all guns must be registered. This lets them know who owns them when they change the laws and make your gun illegal and come to collect it. If you are really lucky your gun wil not be destroyed before the court rules the law unconstitutional and they will give it back, but not likely.
Also the police chief has said semi-automatic handguns will not be allowed(not that she writes laws). So does that mean only single action rvolvers and does anyone make them anymore? I suspect the next version will be so restrictive that it will be an effective ban on handguns again and will go right back to the Supreme Court. They love to waste money on these little games. If they can put it off another year and show they are puting up a fight, they are able to raise more money to up the courts with this garbage.
Just add this to the 999999 other reasons not to live in DC. Virginia is a much better place to live. It must be, “Virginia is for Lovers!” And they love gun owners!