Where have all the Swift Boats gone?
McClatchy looks at the dearth of conservative 527s and comes up with a few reasons why there’s no big money pouring into the “Republican attack machine.”
Democrats and the media have used the term so much that it’s almost an article of faith. But the so-called “Republican attack machine” waiting with piles of unregulated cash to chew up Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama is anything but.
Obama cited the threat of unregulated attack groups — called “527s” because they’re authorized to raise unlimited cash under that section of the Internal Revenue Service code — to justify dropping his pledge to take public financing — along with its spending limits — for the general election campaign.
Yet there’s no 2008 equivalent to the 2004 Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, which spent $22 million attacking Democrat John Kerry. Prominent groups and donors that played key roles in independent conservative 527 groups four years ago say they’re sitting out this election. And while they’ve raised more than they did at this point four years ago, the independent pro-Republican groups still lag more than $50 million behind pro-Democratic groups.
Why?
This sums up the top reason:
“Why stick your neck out for him?” said one Republican operative, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to freely criticize his party’s presumptive nominee.
No need for anonymity. It’s the truth.
***
R.S. McCain offers his explanation.
See what others have said
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Chilling.
I guess it’s hard to “swiftboat” somebody who has never done anything.
Swift-boating really means telling the truth about someone, but you can’t tell that to the idiots…
Good old McClatchy.
Losing money like never before. I wonder why?
Seems like Obama is doing a bang-up job of swiftboating himself.
Well the “TOP” reason is McCains criticism of 527 cooperations and their influence on elections. Mostly the Soros funded groups like moveon.org.
Why set up a 527 cooperation if the person you are setting it up for has taken a stand against them?
Personally I think it would help to offset the unions and the likes of Moveon who have no qualms about taking money and putting out attack ads, but McCain seems to think that his side can play fair while the other side can essentially operate with no rules what so ever. Just look how Obama lied on the public financing pledge.
This is a very scairy election for America. On one side we have an ultra liberal, big government advoacate, pro murder (abortion), pro taxes, pro shamnesty, NBC-ABC-CBS darling elitist. On the other hand we have a moderate liberal, big government advocate, pro shamnesty, elitist.
We will just have to pick the best of the worst. I hope America can get it right.
So if we all try to dress like democrats and wave signs saying “Clark for VP” we can get this gift?
“Why stick your neck out for him?” said one Republican operative, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to freely criticize his party’s presumptive nominee.
No need for anonymity. It’s the truth.
Yeah. Why stick your neck out? Who cares if Obama wins. It’s not that important, after all. Right?
Sure.
It is ANOTHER lesser of 2 evils election and clearly the lesser of 2 evils is McCain. Not voting is not an option because then you get Obama and there is not a damn thing you can say because you didn’t vote.
Any odds on when the Swift Bus Sacrificial Lambs for Truth will finally get moving?
Nothing much you can say about Obama that the Clintons haven’t already said. If you throw out the America-hating ministers, the terrorist buddies, the Islamic connection, the corrupt Democrat organizing groups, the Marxist political philosophy and the elitist attitude, what do you have left? An empty suit.
#12 and if hillary is vp, then you might also get an obama in a coffin. I have no doubt that Hillary would kill to be president.
McCain did himself no favors criticizing the North Carolina GOP for running perfectly legitimate ads.
McCain doesn’t deserve to win, but I’m voting for him because the alternative is worse, and Bob Barr, who follows the KoS/Democrat Underground line on Gitmo and “torture”, isn’t going to win.
Then I assume you’ve already contributed the maximum amount to his campaign, and are deeply involved in financing a 527 with your own money?
I wouldn’t want to give money to defend someone that refuses to do anything at all for me! I live less then 20 miles from Tijuana. I see the streams of ILLEGAL immigrants sneaking across the border. I see them coming to the ER’s in the hospital system I work for, to get free medical aid (we can’t turn anyone away, it would cost us our Medicare certification) or have their anchor babies. I see the Americans that can’t get jobs because there are ILLEGAL immigrants that will work for pennies on the dollar and live in the bushes of a canyon in cardboard boxes. I also see Juan McLame saying that he wants to give them all the rights of the citizens who were born here! I fought in Vietnam so that our constitution could be trampled on? I admit B. Hussein Obamassieh will be just as bad or worse, but why would I want to give my HARD EARNED dollars to benefit someone that doesn’t give a D@#M about how I feel!
Of course that is just my humble opinion…
I will no longer vote for the lesser of two evils or the best of the worst, or whatever you want to call it. When I vote and my choices are these two marxist poinyoins, I will write in a more appropriate candidate. I will no longer reward incompetence. Both political parties are sucking the life out of this once great nation. My conscience will be clear. How about yours?
No and No. I’m just agreeing that no one should stick their neck out, because this is just an election, and it’s just fine and dandy to do nothing as the nation elects a democrat president.
mmmmm kay?
If I had the money, I’d start a 527. But I’d know there is a good chance McCain would critize my group.
McCain criticized the real Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.
Yup.
When you don’t vote for McCain and all the Obama supporters vote for him and McCain looses, then you will have an absolutely clear conscious that the greater of the two evils was rewarded. And living under 4 years of President Obama doing all of the things that you know he is going to do will be just super!
That’s some awesome logic you’ve got there!
Until you have, you don’t have any grounds to criticize how much and to whom others contribute.
wise man you are truly a wise man…
once again i just don’t understand why so many posters on this site don’t seem to grasp how dangerous and potentially devastating an Obama presidency would be. There seems to be an eagerness to cut off the nose to spite the face.
or is it something else? People used to accuse Rush L. of wanting to keep the Clintonistas in office because it gave him something to rail about and boost ratings….hmmm
I agree with you. I am voting for Pastor Chuck Baldwin of the Constitution Party. A rock solid conservative, especially on illegal immigration. But as you can see, actually exercising your right to free choice by not voting for either of the 2 big party candidates jammed down our throats will bring out all the mccainiacs decrying how YOU will be to blame if obama wins.
At what point did I ever ‘criticize how much and to whom others contribute.’ when I said: “Yeah. Why stick your neck out? Who cares if Obama wins. It’s not that important, after all. Right?” ?
Just goes to show how Obummer’s accusations that the Republicans are going to sling out racial, religious, and other assorted innuendo is as empty-headed as they come. Plus, as another poster has pointed out, it’s hard to go after someone whose personal and political history is a clean slate and not well-established.
I do think that if McCain isn’t going to question Obummer’s personal and political character, who will? Gosh, those nasty 527’s? What’s wrong with that?
McCain really needs to reassess this campaign and what’s required to win. Being “polite” at all costs is good in some contact sports but in the field of politics not so much.
I sincerely hope not. The success of our nation should not take a second seat to a successful career as a pundit. As Limbaugh said previously, he career was not dependently on who did or did not win elections. He would comment on the news of the day, and not rely on a script of ‘bashing the democrat president.’ or whatever.
Is McCain HOPING for a “Republican attack machine” to prop him up? You can’t have it both ways, bub, no matter how hard you may try.
Before I changed the channels on Obama’s “patriotic speech” due to the pure warping talk he was calling patriotism I did take one thing to heart.
He stated that when elected officials do not listen and do not act in benefit of the people, then it was patriotic to voice dissent.
Well, I’m going to voice my dissent of Obama. I truely believe that Obama in the White House would make Hillary look like Ronald Reagan. It would be a worse tenure than Jimmy Carter and could possibly make him look like a good president. I know it would take alot to make Carter look good, but I think Obama has it in him.
Clinton has been out of office for 7 plus years, and Rush’s numbers roll on unabated. When the subject comes up, he’ll point out that he prospers under both Democrat and Republican Presidents, because no matter who’s in office the libs will give him plenty of material to work with.
You do it on every thread, to the point of tedium.
So I “criticize how much and to whom others contribute” in every thread?
Sure thing txvet2. You go on believing whatever you want.
On June 30th, 2008 at 1:20 pm, txvet2 said:
Clinton has been out of office for 7 plus years, and Rush’s numbers roll on unabated. When the subject comes up, he’ll point out that he prospers under both Democrat and Republican Presidents, because no matter who’s in office the libs will give him plenty of material to work with.
or is it something else? People used to accuse Rush L. of wanting to keep the Clintonistas in office because it gave him something to rail about and boost ratings….hmmm
emphasis added….
No. He’s not.
Why would they spend reams of money, only to have the candidate they’re attempting to help condemn them and work against them? They’re better off saving up for Palin/Jindal in 2012, who won’t associate with them but won’t likely rail against them.
That being said, the American Spectator link pops up a warning from Google. If you Google American Spectator, people have reported it as being harmful to computers. I smell a few rats.
I clicked on the Spectator link at the top of the page. Nothing at all pop-up or malicious happened.
Are you using Firefox? A black and red page shows up and reads “Reported Attack Site!”. When I Google American Spectator, I get a message under the name “This site may harm your computer.”.
Wow. Are you mocking my login name? That’s so awesome. I picked this login because it’s my last name. Wiseman. Thanks a lot, blindmule. Should I go google your login name and post annoying crap here to troll you in retaliation to your trolling of me? Won’t do it. Sorry to dissapoint.
Wise_man: How come you insist on victim mentality like a liberal? If McCain doesn’t win, he’s not a victim of anybody but himself.
You generally reap what you sow. If you want to portray that as victim mentality - go ahead.
McCain sows inconsistent, non-conservative words and deeds, expect him to reap inconsistent, non-conservative votes.
Now that the primaries are over, conservativesRus, this is now down to two people. Obama and McCain. Come november 2nd, millions of people will vote for one or the other. From each state, the winner of the popular vote will determine who each state will cast their electoral votes for, and that is how the election will happen. And after these millions have spoken, and one or the other has been elected from the votes … a few thousand will make a mockery of our democracy and vote for someone else that has a zero percent chance of winning.
I am merely pointing out the folly that others have commented on or claimed. I don’t know where you imagined up your victim mentality comment, but I like to deal with reality.
In 2004 the Democratic groups were 4 to 1 in spending and this year it is 3 to 1. In the article not a single active democratic attack group is mentioned, even though MoveOn.org has already released a few attack ads this year. Oh I guess for McClatchy there are no Democratic 527’s that do attack ads.
I just clicked my link to http://www.spectator.org, no problems, no warnings. Are you maybe trying .com or some such?
No, America will NOT get it right. We’ll continue believing that we only have two choices, and we’ll keep electing the “lesser of two evils”, and we’ll continue this course of turning the greatest nation on earth into a third-world toilet.
It’s our destiny. And when it happens, we can all say we had a part in it, because we only had two real choices.
RIP USA
Wise-man: And isn’t that the beauty of the process. We’re allowed to vote for whom we want. Whether or not you like it, whether or not you think it’s foolish.
Don’t go blaming anybody but McCain though if people don’t vote for the guy.
Good Lord.
When people voted for Ross Perot, they took votes away from George Herbert Walker and gave the presidency to Bill Clinton. And he defeated Dole 4 years later, for a total of 8. In our current democracy, AFTER the democratic and republican primaries are over, there are two - count them, two - choices that are viable.
Voting for the x-party or the y-party gets you the exact same result as writing in your favorite cartoon character. i.e. a complete and utter wast of your time and effort and/or helping to contribute the greater of two evils to be to prevail.
I thinks there is something in the new Firefox three which allows sites to be blocked based on how your security options jibe with google data on site.
I smell a rat…
It is my considered opinion that many, not all, of those screaming at McCain and swearing they would never vote for him because of his position on some issue are trolls and are working at the behest of the Democratic National Committee and MoveOn.
Well john McCain is now living with the mess he has created…the question is can he finagle a deal with the people he has pissed off to get them to support him?
He will when he starts to realize that that the libs aren’t going to back him…that realization is now happening…good.
John McCain is not my choice , and i will now vote for him only because he had enough guts to back Heller decision, but I think he needs to keep working for our votes. John McCain is handling conservatives the same way GWB has…and that means never give up your vote easily-make him squirm a little.
But most important of all nothing will go our way until we get enough congressmen Senators of our stripe…even McCain would have to bow down to that with respect to amnesty for illegals
don’t sit out the election
wise_man:
It’s frustrating isn”t it? We only have 2 choices because you have to either be a nut or have a lot of money to be noticed by the MSM and run as a 3rd party candidate. Perot was both so he got 19% of the vote and screwed us in ‘92.
I think a lot of democrats will hold their nose and vote for Obama but there are a lot that will do the same and vote for McCain. If, however, Obama is elected by a very narrow margin, I will blame every holier-than-thou, so-called conservative who had the elitist attitude of “my conscience is clear” that allow it to happen.
You can make up any fantasy you want. The fact is, McCain is campaigning for liberal and moderate voters. Nothing there for conservatives except your Obama as bogeyman argument. McCain has stuck his fingers in too many conservative eyes and they’re reacting by withholding the cash, which is pretty much the original point of the thread.
This has absolutely nothing to do with “Whether or not I like it.” You can vote for batman for all I care. I am simply stating a fact. As an example, in 2004:
62,040,610 people voted for George Bush. He got 50.73% of the vote. Won with 28 electoral votes.
And Ralph Nader? 465,650 votes. 0.38% of the vote. ZERO electoral votes.
Michael Badnarik? 397,265. 0.32% ZERO.
Michael Peroutka 143,630. 0.12% ZERO.
David Cobb? 119,859. 0.096% ZERO.
and Leonard Peltier 27,607 0.023% ZERO.
The last two people on the list were socialists, and they got about 10 thousand votes. Again, ZERO electoral votes.
Our democracy is not set up like how it is in Israel, where they have multiple parties and have to reconcile the government after the election. If you want our democracy to operate differently, so that your candidate has a chance to win, then you need to change the rules of how we elect a president.
On June 30th, 2008 at 2:07 pm, Lifeofthemind said:
It is my considered opinion that many, not all, of those screaming at McCain and swearing they would never vote for him because of his position on some issue are trolls and are working at the behest of the Democratic National Committee and MoveOn.
Bingo! They are oh-so-clever aren’t they?
so i’ll say it again…
Vote the HerO, not the ZerO
Lifeofthemind has a very interesting point! Hmmmmmm!
And yes I was having some fun with your name for the fact that if someone brings up not voting McCain for what ever reason you jump on them, calling them trolls amongst other things. You seem to be irratted most of the time on this subject.
I look at it this way if you want to vote McCain then vote McCain if you don’t it does’nt mean your troll it means they don’t or can’t vote for them because of their paticular convictions. I personally don’t see getting to the point, I need to break out the sledge hammer every time, I think everyone on here knows how you feel, you have every right to voice your opinion and some disagree with you but that does’nt make them anything more than of a different opinion than yours. Save the TROLL comments for the tried and true Trolls like lgm for example.
P.S.
I’ll accept your troll comment on this one because that is excactly what I did and you got sucked right in see how easy that was.
#54: lovetorumba:
You’re voting for McCain based on his comments regarding Heller??? What did McCain do as a Senator that would have rendered Heller’s suit unnecessary?
Here’s someone who unequivocally supports the second amendment: link
Sen. McCain has not advocated an absolute prohibition, “but he cosponsored legislation which could require registration of attendees at gun shows and even ban such shows,” Barr warns. And Sen. McCain’s campaign legislation “curtailed the First Amendment right of gun owners to protect their rights by participating in election campaigns.”
McCain is suffering from well-deserved flea bites from laying down with the liberal dogs he thought were his friends.
I’ve not given any money to any GOP cause for 2 years because I haven’t seen any GOP leadership for at least that long.
As long as this candidate keeps hanging out with his open-borders buddies, he’ll keep that record going.
#57:
Our government is not a democracy, and the popular vote does not elect a president. So you can pull the lever for McCain, but do you know that you aren’t voting for McCain?
Why can’t McCain see that touchy feely say no evil attitude is not going to help him?
If he is not willing to call a mmmm, ok, let’s see, if he is not willing to point out the wishy washy attitude, the lies and inconsistencies of his opponent, he must not want to win.
Nice guys finish last. In fact, he doesn’t even have to throw mud, he just has to tell the truth about his opponent.
Not my attitude at all. I’m giving to good, solid conservatives around the country, and if my own Congressman (Lamar Smith) could get his nose out of the earmark trough I’d contribute to him, too.
I’ll also be kicking in to John Cornyn this year. He’s earned it. Two years from now, I’ll be supporting Hutchison for governor, even though we’ve had our differences in some small areas. I won’t vote for McCain, any more than I would for Obama, because of their policy positions. That’s it, end of argument for my part.
“Deep, hollow, treacherous, and full of guile…”
That about sums up the 2008 presidential election, I guess. *sigh*
I called your trolling comment to me a “troll” because it was. Had nothing to do with the subject of this page or anything that I said. Comment 38 is the only time I used that word, so kindly don’t misrepresent me or what I haven’t done.
Thank you.
A columnist (I forget which) posited recently that McCain isn’t showing much enthusiasm for the race because (I’m paraphrasing here) he’s already accomplished what he set out to do - win the nomination and stick his finger in the eyes of the conservatives again.
Wiseman state:
Actually no they won’t, because me and the rest of the nation will be voting on Nov 4th.
Hope you are not too lonely at the polls if you show up on that date.
Please tell me that is not even a possibility #61. That makes my stomach hurt. In fact I might hurl on my keyboard. And it is only two days old.
The election is 4 months away, txvet2. The columnist’s opinion with worth precisely zero. What McCain wants to do is not stick his finger in conservatives eyes, he wants to get elected president. McCain wants to run his campaign the way he wants to run his campaign. I assume that he will show more enthusiasm at the nominating convention, and on the campaign trail in the months before the election.
And there is another problem that is bigger than all of that, and he is going to have to think himself through it. And that is that there is a sense about his campaign that . . . John McCain has already got what he wanted, he got what he needed, which was to be top dog in the Republican Party, the party that had abused him in 2000 and cast him aside. They all bow to him now, and he doesn’t need anything else. He doesn’t need the presidency. He got what he wanted. So now he can coast. This is, in the deepest way, unserious. JFK had to have the presidency—he wanted that thing. Nixon had to have it too, and Reagan had to have it to institute his new way. Clinton had to have it—it was his destiny, the thing he’d wanted since he was a teenager.
The last person I can think of who gave off the vibe that he didn’t have to have it was Bob Dole. Who didn’t get it. And who had a similar lack of engagement in terms of policy, and philosophy, and meaning. - Peggy Noonan
As if to underscore Noonan’s column…link
Sorry, pressto. Republicans vote on the 4th. Democrats on the 5th. I forgot.
And what about the people who don’t fit in your binary world?
Wrong again, wise_man. Democrats vote on September 10!
On June 30th, 2008 at 2:11 pm, Vince said:
Amen…
When Obama gets elected and capitulates to the islamists we have been fighting. When he signs a REAL amnesty bill. When he creates gigantic entitlement programs that will never be taken away which will dwarf anything that FDR or LBJ dreamed about and bankrupts the country. When he guts the military. When he sells out our only real alli in the Middle East for cheaper oil, when the supreme court gets skewed with Trotskyite idiots, When our sovereignty has been surrendered to international treaties…etc, etc, etc… I will make it my life’s work to remind the “so-called conservatives”, some of whom are trying to make their careers on splitting the republican party that they helped to make this disaster happen. Indeed, it will be the only comfort left after Obama is elected and he, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid have a clear path to do whatever the hell they want.
#64 Wise Man
I’m voting for McCain, because the third parties will not win, and Obama is just that bad.
But I do think McCain enjoys annoying the conservative base.
I fear the first two years of an Obama term, when the Dems will have large margins in both the House and the Senate. If Obama is a true disaster, the GOP has a pretty good chance of getting the House back in the 2010 cycle. With only a third of the Senate up, they probably keep the Senate, and Obama still gets to appoint Bader-Ginsburg type ACLU lawyers to SCOTUS, but I’d hope the destruction of the economy would stop then.
But those first two years would be a disaster.
I’m really hoping McCain doesn’t pick a RINO VP, beats Obama, and at his age, he serves no more than one term.
Bob Barr says he is running because he favors habeas rights for Gitmo
prisonersterrorists and opposes torture.But if you read further, he lost his seat because redistricting merged his district, and he lost the GOP primary. Despite his denials, he is trying to pull a Nader on the Republicans. He lost in a GOP primary, and is bitter.
Fair enough, txvet2. And you remind me that I have contributed to the campaign of the man running against Murtha.
Still, I don’t give to the RNC, I don’t give to McCain and, beyond my vote which he is getting, I’m not helping him into the White House, because he’s not a conservative.
Ed Mahmoud abu al-Kahoul said:
Obama will be pulling American troops out of Iraq at a time when the heavy lifting is done. He will be doing it at a rate where it just might (unlikely but possible) work. The narrative that will be shoved down the throats of Americans is that Obama/the democrats got us out of a war that Bush/the republicans lied us in to. To the democratic base that will be worth years of devotion to them. That will be worth a second term.
My sentiments exactly. I send their fundraising letters back with an explanation as to why I won’t contribute to them. Not that they read them, but at least they have to pay the return postage. (I do the same thing to ACLU fundraising letters, but I cut out the part with my name on it so they can’t take me off their mailing list and I can keep costing them postage.)
Pretty dishonest of you, Ed. Here’s the full quote:
Barr’s quote wasn’t in regards to Gitmo.
To follow up on Gonzales’ idiocy:
“The Constitution doesn’t say every individual in the United States or every citizen is hereby granted or assured the right of habeas,” Gonzales told Sen. Arlen Specter, R-Pa., during a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing Jan. 17.
Gonzales acknowledged that the Constitution declares “habeas corpus shall not be suspended unless … in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it.” But he insisted that “there is no express grant of habeas in the Constitution.”
You can call me a troll or come up with conspiracy theories about me all you want - that’s what liberals are best at - -name calling and conspiracy theories. The fact is I’m a South Carolina conservative. I voted for Fred Thompson in the primary, even though all the media (including Fox News) was telling everyone that voting for anyone other than McCain was a wasted vote. And at that time McCain had yet to win ANYTHING! We’ve let the media decide who our candidates will be through these tactics. I’ll not be bullied by anyone here, or brainwashed by the media into voting for a candidate I don’t want for president.
Well: As it turns out they were right.
The choices now in viable candidates are John McCain or Barack Obama.
I wonder if anyone told Fred! that his supporters didn’t know that Fred! is supporting McCain. And that his supporters won’t support the candidate that Fred! is supporting.
The only vote that is wasted is the one that isn’t cast. By the wonderful logic of Bill Grant and the McCainaanites, if you don’t vote for the winner, then you’ve wasted your vote.
Today? C’mon you have used it more than that.
and I admitted it on my post.
I apologize if I am wrong, I read thru some of your posts on Hot Air(if that is you) and MM and I did’nt find you specifically calling an individual a troll. I did find your comment about trolls that are on this site saying they won’t vote McCain are liberal plants.
This is what I found
It’s hard to attack a man’s record when he has none. Obama is truly the Manchurian Candidate.
Blind_Mule, your googling of my username to make some wierd claim about me that fits your opinion is really creepy. How about sticking to the subject of this page, or something that I said on this page, and less time trying to tag me as something .. whatever you want for whatever strange reasons you want.
Hey Blind_Mule, that wasn’t Wise_Man that was me. Please flame the right guy.
McCain has a long history of capitulating to Democrats - after all, he’s the “Maverick Republican.” Who’s to say that he won’t also do all these things you mention at the urging of his friends Teddy Kennedy, Russ Feingold etc?
Well then, I’ll just sell my soul and vote for McCain, since I’ve been bullied into it. And when Spanish becomes the official language of the US, and I lose my job to an illegal who’ll do it for $4/hr, who can I thank for that?
Wise-man. I’m sure glad God made you the final arbiter of what is intelligence.
I will not vote for McCain and it will not affect the outcome one bit. Remember that electoral vote count you mentioned. I do understand that if I were in a different state, I might have to do things differently - but since I’m here in the northeast USA, if I were to vote for McCain, it’d be just as wasted. Believe me - I will vote for any and all conservative candidates I can find on my ballot.
Further, McCain’s actions and words, give me little comfort he’ll do the right thing(s) for the country and her future. Of course I know Obama will not do anything right.
It is sooooooooooooo hard to guess which ones are the real ‘conservatives’ who lie about McCain and all of the operation chaos pawns pretending to be conservatives …. who lie about McCain.
Wise_man, would you at least be willing to admit that McCain does not seem to be proactively concerned about courting the conservative vote? It’s fine that McCain wants to run his campaign the way he wants to run it; but then why criticize others for not wanting to vote for him?
I get what you are saying about Obama, I do. Many of us are very concerned about that; but we also feel that the GOP candidate should have a bit more concern for the conservative base than we have seen from Sen. McCain. Are we not entitled to worry about that as well?
Should we sacrifice our ideals and write McCain a blank check simply because he’s sitting opposite someone worse?
I know you say “Yes”, but many of us worry that if we give up on trying to convince him to listen to us now, he never will. If Sen. McCain doesn’t feel inclined to earn our vote, how will he ever be inclined to follow any conservative policies once he is in office.
We’ll have a Democratic congress to oppose him on everything he does try to reach to conservatives on, a media that will bash him, and he will lack the conservative base that Reagan built. That doesn’t bode well for a successful presidency, either.
Some of us have legitimate concerns about this and bashing us with why we should vote for him (i.e. he’s not Obama) without trying to convince him to listen to us seems foolish considering he’s not even the official candidate yet.
Obama’s Boys of Summer
A Who’s Who of 1968 radicals supports the candidate.
Problem is, of course, that we aren’t lying about McCain. That’s the hardest thing you McCainiacs have to deal with. It doesn’t matter what he claims he’ll do, his record is clear. He opposes tax cuts. It’s on the record. He not only favors amnesty, he’s written legislation to that effect (and said he’ll do the same thing again if he wins a day or two ago). He wants to close Gitmo. He believes the global warming myth wholeheartedly, and has written “cap and trade” legislation. When pushed to specify anything at all that McCain has done or said that is even remotely conservative, all you bring up is the Iraq war and the phantom WOT. That makes him precisely as conservative as Chris Hitchens, and no more. Otherwise, all you have is “Obama is the devil!”.
wise_man
I have no agenda with you or anyone else here, I’m not trying to tag you as anything, and my opinion of you really does’nt matter to anyone but you. Your diatribe on McCain dissenters is well known and if you think googling your username is creepy,what about all the hackers pinging our computers while we are on the net you must be histerical.
Well explain to me why he has and keeps doing it.
txvet2
Yes yes we can all mourn that Fred didn’t pull it off or Romney lacked some quality or Ron Silver doesn’t want the job or whatever but Rumsfeld was right when he said you fight with the army you have. Now we can all work harder at trying to build a strong national party that acts in line with Reagan’s principals The primaries are over and these are the results. Unless someone is moving to Mars anytime soon they should focus on what America will be like in two or four years. That means stopping Obama. Once the air is let out of his balloon it will be painfully obvious what a sham the left is. Then we can get back to arguing about real policy alternatives.
And Obama is not courting the left of his party. He’s ‘moving to the center’ in appearance only.
Worry all you want. Sacrifice nothing you don’t want to. Live with the consequences of your actions. Decide what is worse, and what is tolerable.
I find it strange that people are upset that McCain is acting like McCain. This is who he is. The majority of republicans voted for McCain, and he didn’t try to claim that he was anyone else than himself. It’s too bad that they voted for him. It’s too bad that more people didn’t vote for someone like Fred.
If there was a way to force McCain to be more conservative, that would be great. I’d like to know how. If I ever get a solicitation from the republican party or McCain, I’ll send back the form using their postage and tell them what they can do if they want my money. I assume they will not read my letter carefully, but just simply rip it up. Our only option at this point is to vote.
If there are any constructive suggestions as to how to deal with this crappy situation, I’d love to hear what the plan is.
So far, I’ve seen the “McCain needs to earn my vote” and “I’m going to vote for Bob Barr” and “Obama can’t be that bad,” …. and more. I’m still waiting for a valid idea that would be preferable.
wise_man said:What McCain wants to do is not stick his finger in conservatives eyes, he wants to get elected president.
Why he keeps doing it? Sure.
He opposed the Bush tax cuts, using class warfare terms then, later justifying his opposition by a lack of concurrent spending discipline.
He supports the Bush tax cuts now. Pretty clear he won’t roll them back.
The amnesty and global warming hysteria things, on the other hand, well, there is that.
I’m still voting for him to try to keep Obama out.
I suspect his global warming hysteria won’t be anywhere near as bad as what Obama will want, and, if you’ll recall, fellow Arizonan Senator Kyl got involved in his amnesty bill to try to tone down the very worst parts, so a McCain amnesty might have some Republican mitigation, an Obama amnesty will, if possible, be even worse.
Not exactly Wise Man.
And I’m voting for McCain to stop Obama, but McCain is the nominee not because the Republicans picked him, but because the Republican base had five candidates to choose from, while many of the early primaries were open to independents and cross over Democrats.
Ifs and butts being candy and nuts and all, but what if Tom Tancredo had realized he had no shot, and had thrown his support to Duncan Hunter. Things might be different now.
We’re not upset by it. We expected it, which is why
isn’t precisely true. He was pushed by crossover Democrats and liberal Republicans in early open primaries, and thereafter survived on media attention, momentum, and the connivance of Huckabee. I agree that he is going to be the Republican nominee because the majority of the delegates to the convention will vote for him. I disagree that I am somehow obligated to do the same.
I find it hard to believe that the only reason that McCain is going to be the republican nominee is because democrats voted for him. I’m not going to spend the next hour googling the republican primary results by state and compare the recent numbers with the election totals from 4 years ago. If someone wants to provide a link to a site that has documented claims that McCain benefited from democrat crossover voters, then I’d like to read it.
I am of the opinion that it is possible that the democrats would like to screw with us with their own ‘operation chaos,’ and when I suggest that they might be doing this here, a lot of people say it isn’t so. And others suggest that McCain benefited from something similar at the ballot box? Let’s see it.
by Ed Mahmoud abu Al-Kahoul
If McCain gets in we will still have to deal with his Obama-like tendencies on legislation…so be it….I’m thinking Supreme Court right now.
Heller will only stand as long as challenges to it are rebuffed by stacking the SCOTUS with conservatives for at least 5 years from today…then it shall seep in as precedent for future decisions…and acquire at least some long -lasting protection for the second amendment (from beign abused by all-knowing gov. officials).
Your quote could just as well be mine, Ed.
Many democrats want you to sit out the election, or vote for someone who is guaranteed to loose. Anything, but vote for McCain. Every vote for Obama will be lined up with every vote for McCain, and in each state, the winner will get that state’s electoral votes.
You do what you want to. But at least don’t kid yourself of the consequences of your actions.
McCain … has Obama like tendencies?
…. and,
McCain is the beneficiary of the democrat’s “operation chaos” on us because they crossed over to vote for him. In our primaries.
So
What we need to do now, is not vote for McCain. Something that the democrats also want.
And this is a good thing??? So the democrats can beat us twice?
John McCain
Source
Voting Record/Votes With Party
102nd Congress 86.6%
103rd Congress 85.3%
104th Congress 86.5%
105th Congress 83.6%
106th Congress 83.1%
107th Congress 76.2% Jan. 3,2001
108th Congress 84.5%
109th Congress 79.4%
110th Congress 88.3%
I’ve had this theory about McCain, it may be more questions than a theory and the numbers above may not support it but that all depends on what he was voting on at the time so here goes.
John McCain has an 85.2% average vote with party from the 102nd Congress up until the 107th Congress in which he displays about a 10% difference from previous years, this difference is right after the 2000 elections in which he was a candidate, so we know by this time McCain has aspirations to the Presidency. I believe this may be when he started making a turn to the left and attempting to bring himself to the middle because he intended to run in 2008, instead of trying to break to the middle after the primaries like all other politicians before him, making him look like the maverick he claims to be and not a flip flopper. I believe that this would effect his conservitive base negatively as it has. McCain was considered in the middle before the primaries started so he has attracted independents, middle of the road conservitives and middle of the road liberals which would have been his goal all along. I think that if this were true he miscalculated how angry the conservitive base would be and must try and repair the damage in some way, how? I don’t know.
Ok now find all the wholes in this theory.
This circular argument has been going on for a while and will undoubtedly continue right up until about 2055. The bottom line is still this. If McCain wants conservatives to vote for him, he has to give them some reason other than he’s a little less bad than Obama. Those whose principles are the same or similar to McCain will vote that way, as will those who hold pragmatism above principle. A few of us will not. Wasting our votes? I suppose so, if you are of the mindset that every Kerry supporter, every Dole supporter, every Algore supporter wasted their votes because their candidates eventually lost. I don’t quite see it that way, and apparently neither did the FF.
I guess some here are still unaware that McCain also follows the KoS/Democrat Underground line on Gitmo and “torture”. It’s like people live in a bubble.
An interesting theory, Blind_Mule. I wish I could put some faith in it as there might be some comfort in it. Although, taking the conservative vote for granted does seem to be true to theme.
I don’t know, either, but it seems to me that his VP candidate needs to be viewed as strongly conservative to have a chance of making amends.
You people are like puppets on a string.
And I think it is fantasy to even entertain the thought that McCain has any interest in his standing with conservatives when he spends the weekend promising amnesty despite the objection of the overwhelming majority of the American people.
Juan McCain is now paying the price for his tack to the far left.
And most of us who contributed to the Swift Boat heroes were, and still are, conservatives. Juan McCain has already told conservatives to F-off. I, for one, have received his message loud and clear. He can sink or swim without my support.
And if either Obama or MCcain is elected, I will blame every holier-than-thou, so-called conservative who had the elitist attitude of “But we HAVE to support the Republican Party!”
How about reminding Sen. McCain that we (conservatives) are still here and should not be ignored or taken for granted?
Perhaps we should continue to raise our concerns about his platform and let him know that the conservative vote is not guaranteed simply because he sits to the right of his opponent?
Maybe we should continue to consider the things that Michelle, Rush, Mark Levin, and many others are saying about McCain without suggesting that they’re supporting Obama by criticizing McCain?
We can suck it up and do nothing… but how do we win from that? Sure, we win against Obama (and that would be good), but our party further slides into this middle, left-reaching ground and we’ve lost the war for conservatism.
Ouch. I was responding to a hypothetical. I never suggested that I thought McCain would actually do this.
No fantasies here.
The people to which you refer are conservatives and we are upset because we are the only ones who stand to lose anything with this election. We can argue until the cows come home about which one we would prefer to have at the helm; Obie or Mr. Straigt Talk, but it really doesn’t matter… regardless -conservatives lose.
Besides, the only message McCain has for us is get.in.line. Meanwhile, he’s pulling out all stops to pander to other demographics.
My feelings EXACTLY.
Tell him you won’t vote for him unless he moves a good deal to the right. Why is this so hard?
You are here every day enabling his behavior. It makes no sense for you to then deplore it.
On June 30th, 2008 at 6:07 pm, flenser said:
So if either of the 2 people who are running gets elected you are going to blame the people who support the Republican party.
Hey, you are consistent at least…
LOL.
I think his point is that he feels that conservatives should hold out on committing to McCain until he can in some way assure them that their concerns will be address, while you (or one of the other McCain supporters) previously argued that what conservatives should do is vote for McCain now, and then try to influence him in conservative directions later when you have absolutely no leverage to get his attention. That you exact no price on McCain for you vote, assuming you are as conservative as you claim, in effect means that you are enabling him to win and still ignore you. At least that’s my interpretation of his post.
Pardon the typos. I know I should preview before I transmit.
There are more than two people running. Repeating a lie does not magically make it true. If you want to argue for McCain, do so. Just try not to lie so often while doing it.
I know that pretending that “we only have two choices” lets you off the hook in your choice. I just don’t see why I should play along with it.
LOL.
I come here and argue that it’s better to vote for a flawed candidate that actually won the republican primary, and not wast your time to vote for someone who is guaranteed to fail such as a third party, or write in a name … and participate in our election by standing up and voting for one of the two people on the ballot who is on the republican ticket …. than to allow more people(democrats) to vote for Obama so Obama does not win …. and you wonder about ‘my claim’ to be a conservative?
I don’t want Obama to win. And you wonder if I am a conservative.
Neither do many of Hillary’s supporters, and they aren’t conservative by a long shot. I could take a page from your book and call you a Kosack engaged in some sort of “Operation Chaos”, as you do with anyone who disagrees with you, but I prefer to keep the discussion on a higher level than what you seem to prefer. There is little in anything that you’ve posted to indicate that you are really conservative, but as my post makes clear, I’m not dismissing completely the possibility that you are, even though you and your fellow McCain supporters have on frequent occasions impugned the conservative credentials of those like me who will not support McCain. I note that you didn’t try to argue the meat of the post, but then you seldom do, probably because it tends to be somewhat above your intellectual capacity.
You are so full of BS.
Still can’t handle the truth, huh?
Most Republicans voted for Mitt Romney, Rudy Giuliani (cough), (cough)Mike Huckabee(cough cough), Duncan Hunter, Ron Paul (cough), Tom Tancredo, Fred Thompson, and Tommy Thompson.
Primary 101 for Witless:
Votes in no particular order to above list… just an example. Consider this the after the first few primaries.
Candidate 1 - 2 votes
Candidate 2 - 5 votes
Candidate 3 - 2 votes
Candidate 4 - 2 votes
Candidate 5 - 1 vote
Candidate 6 - 1 vote
Candidate 7 - 3 votes
Candidate 8 - 6 votes
Other candidates drop out except for Paul (cough) and (cough) Huckabee (cough cough)…. So then OF COURSE McCain gets majority of votes after that. Can I hear a big DUH? But prior to that the other candidates received more votes than McCain.
They were all more conservative than McCain…
Total votes: 16 for other Republicas, 6 for McCain. Winner = McCain because the others were split among the more conservative candidates. See? Are you getting this now?
And yes, McCain got far more aft