Where have all the Swift Boats gone?
McClatchy looks at the dearth of conservative 527s and comes up with a few reasons why there’s no big money pouring into the “Republican attack machine.”
Democrats and the media have used the term so much that it’s almost an article of faith. But the so-called “Republican attack machine” waiting with piles of unregulated cash to chew up Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama is anything but.
Obama cited the threat of unregulated attack groups — called “527s” because they’re authorized to raise unlimited cash under that section of the Internal Revenue Service code — to justify dropping his pledge to take public financing — along with its spending limits — for the general election campaign.
Yet there’s no 2008 equivalent to the 2004 Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, which spent $22 million attacking Democrat John Kerry. Prominent groups and donors that played key roles in independent conservative 527 groups four years ago say they’re sitting out this election. And while they’ve raised more than they did at this point four years ago, the independent pro-Republican groups still lag more than $50 million behind pro-Democratic groups.
Why?
This sums up the top reason:
“Why stick your neck out for him?” said one Republican operative, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to freely criticize his party’s presumptive nominee.
No need for anonymity. It’s the truth.
***
R.S. McCain offers his explanation.
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Categories: GOP, Swift Boat Vets
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by Ed Mahmoud abu Al-Kahoul
If McCain gets in we will still have to deal with his Obama-like tendencies on legislation…so be it….I’m thinking Supreme Court right now.
Heller will only stand as long as challenges to it are rebuffed by stacking the SCOTUS with conservatives for at least 5 years from today…then it shall seep in as precedent for future decisions…and acquire at least some long -lasting protection for the second amendment (from beign abused by all-knowing gov. officials).
Your quote could just as well be mine, Ed.
Many democrats want you to sit out the election, or vote for someone who is guaranteed to loose. Anything, but vote for McCain. Every vote for Obama will be lined up with every vote for McCain, and in each state, the winner will get that state’s electoral votes.
You do what you want to. But at least don’t kid yourself of the consequences of your actions.
McCain … has Obama like tendencies?
…. and,
McCain is the beneficiary of the democrat’s “operation chaos” on us because they crossed over to vote for him. In our primaries.
So
What we need to do now, is not vote for McCain. Something that the democrats also want.
And this is a good thing??? So the democrats can beat us twice?
John McCain
Source
Voting Record/Votes With Party
102nd Congress 86.6%
103rd Congress 85.3%
104th Congress 86.5%
105th Congress 83.6%
106th Congress 83.1%
107th Congress 76.2% Jan. 3,2001
108th Congress 84.5%
109th Congress 79.4%
110th Congress 88.3%
I’ve had this theory about McCain, it may be more questions than a theory and the numbers above may not support it but that all depends on what he was voting on at the time so here goes.
John McCain has an 85.2% average vote with party from the 102nd Congress up until the 107th Congress in which he displays about a 10% difference from previous years, this difference is right after the 2000 elections in which he was a candidate, so we know by this time McCain has aspirations to the Presidency. I believe this may be when he started making a turn to the left and attempting to bring himself to the middle because he intended to run in 2008, instead of trying to break to the middle after the primaries like all other politicians before him, making him look like the maverick he claims to be and not a flip flopper. I believe that this would effect his conservitive base negatively as it has. McCain was considered in the middle before the primaries started so he has attracted independents, middle of the road conservitives and middle of the road liberals which would have been his goal all along. I think that if this were true he miscalculated how angry the conservitive base would be and must try and repair the damage in some way, how? I don’t know.
Ok now find all the wholes in this theory.
This circular argument has been going on for a while and will undoubtedly continue right up until about 2055. The bottom line is still this. If McCain wants conservatives to vote for him, he has to give them some reason other than he’s a little less bad than Obama. Those whose principles are the same or similar to McCain will vote that way, as will those who hold pragmatism above principle. A few of us will not. Wasting our votes? I suppose so, if you are of the mindset that every Kerry supporter, every Dole supporter, every Algore supporter wasted their votes because their candidates eventually lost. I don’t quite see it that way, and apparently neither did the FF.
I guess some here are still unaware that McCain also follows the KoS/Democrat Underground line on Gitmo and “torture”. It’s like people live in a bubble.
An interesting theory, Blind_Mule. I wish I could put some faith in it as there might be some comfort in it. Although, taking the conservative vote for granted does seem to be true to theme.
I don’t know, either, but it seems to me that his VP candidate needs to be viewed as strongly conservative to have a chance of making amends.
You people are like puppets on a string.
And I think it is fantasy to even entertain the thought that McCain has any interest in his standing with conservatives when he spends the weekend promising amnesty despite the objection of the overwhelming majority of the American people.
Juan McCain is now paying the price for his tack to the far left.
And most of us who contributed to the Swift Boat heroes were, and still are, conservatives. Juan McCain has already told conservatives to F-off. I, for one, have received his message loud and clear. He can sink or swim without my support.
And if either Obama or MCcain is elected, I will blame every holier-than-thou, so-called conservative who had the elitist attitude of “But we HAVE to support the Republican Party!”
How about reminding Sen. McCain that we (conservatives) are still here and should not be ignored or taken for granted?
Perhaps we should continue to raise our concerns about his platform and let him know that the conservative vote is not guaranteed simply because he sits to the right of his opponent?
Maybe we should continue to consider the things that Michelle, Rush, Mark Levin, and many others are saying about McCain without suggesting that they’re supporting Obama by criticizing McCain?
We can suck it up and do nothing… but how do we win from that? Sure, we win against Obama (and that would be good), but our party further slides into this middle, left-reaching ground and we’ve lost the war for conservatism.
Ouch. I was responding to a hypothetical. I never suggested that I thought McCain would actually do this.
No fantasies here.
The people to which you refer are conservatives and we are upset because we are the only ones who stand to lose anything with this election. We can argue until the cows come home about which one we would prefer to have at the helm; Obie or Mr. Straigt Talk, but it really doesn’t matter… regardless -conservatives lose.
Besides, the only message McCain has for us is get.in.line. Meanwhile, he’s pulling out all stops to pander to other demographics.
My feelings EXACTLY.
Tell him you won’t vote for him unless he moves a good deal to the right. Why is this so hard?
You are here every day enabling his behavior. It makes no sense for you to then deplore it.
On June 30th, 2008 at 6:07 pm, flenser said:
So if either of the 2 people who are running gets elected you are going to blame the people who support the Republican party.
Hey, you are consistent at least…
LOL.
I think his point is that he feels that conservatives should hold out on committing to McCain until he can in some way assure them that their concerns will be address, while you (or one of the other McCain supporters) previously argued that what conservatives should do is vote for McCain now, and then try to influence him in conservative directions later when you have absolutely no leverage to get his attention. That you exact no price on McCain for you vote, assuming you are as conservative as you claim, in effect means that you are enabling him to win and still ignore you. At least that’s my interpretation of his post.
Pardon the typos. I know I should preview before I transmit.
There are more than two people running. Repeating a lie does not magically make it true. If you want to argue for McCain, do so. Just try not to lie so often while doing it.
I know that pretending that “we only have two choices” lets you off the hook in your choice. I just don’t see why I should play along with it.
LOL.
I come here and argue that it’s better to vote for a flawed candidate that actually won the republican primary, and not wast your time to vote for someone who is guaranteed to fail such as a third party, or write in a name … and participate in our election by standing up and voting for one of the two people on the ballot who is on the republican ticket …. than to allow more people(democrats) to vote for Obama so Obama does not win …. and you wonder about ‘my claim’ to be a conservative?
I don’t want Obama to win. And you wonder if I am a conservative.
Neither do many of Hillary’s supporters, and they aren’t conservative by a long shot. I could take a page from your book and call you a Kosack engaged in some sort of “Operation Chaos”, as you do with anyone who disagrees with you, but I prefer to keep the discussion on a higher level than what you seem to prefer. There is little in anything that you’ve posted to indicate that you are really conservative, but as my post makes clear, I’m not dismissing completely the possibility that you are, even though you and your fellow McCain supporters have on frequent occasions impugned the conservative credentials of those like me who will not support McCain. I note that you didn’t try to argue the meat of the post, but then you seldom do, probably because it tends to be somewhat above your intellectual capacity.
You are so full of BS.
Still can’t handle the truth, huh?
Most Republicans voted for Mitt Romney, Rudy Giuliani (cough), (cough)Mike Huckabee(cough cough), Duncan Hunter, Ron Paul (cough), Tom Tancredo, Fred Thompson, and Tommy Thompson.
Primary 101 for Witless:
Votes in no particular order to above list… just an example. Consider this the after the first few primaries.
Candidate 1 – 2 votes
Candidate 2 – 5 votes
Candidate 3 – 2 votes
Candidate 4 – 2 votes
Candidate 5 – 1 vote
Candidate 6 – 1 vote
Candidate 7 – 3 votes
Candidate 8 – 6 votes
Other candidates drop out except for Paul (cough) and (cough) Huckabee (cough cough)…. So then OF COURSE McCain gets majority of votes after that. Can I hear a big DUH? But prior to that the other candidates received more votes than McCain.
They were all more conservative than McCain…
Total votes: 16 for other Republicas, 6 for McCain. Winner = McCain because the others were split among the more conservative candidates. See? Are you getting this now?
And yes, McCain got far more after the others dropped out, but two other candidates were STILL getting votes even AFTER he clinched the magic number of nominating delegates.
So can you at least drop this one repetitive but highly inaccurate point from your two-point talking points? Just stick with “McCain is a worthless sack of crap” (but he’s MYYYYy sack of crap) but I’m voting for him cuz he’s mo’betta than Obamaaaaaaaaa.
Thank you. Now he has somebody else to insult for awhile. It really is sad. I wouldn’t at all mind being convinced that voting for McCain is a good idea, but neither he nor most of his fellow McCainiacs is able to articulate anything but “McCain be bad, Obama maybe worse”.
txvet2-
But the only reason I’m voting for the RINO is that I honestly think the Obammunist is worse. I know enough about Barr, he is in KoS territory in The War on Islamic terror, the pastor running on the Constitution Party ticket may well be better qualified than McCain to be President, but he won’t win. McCain might, and if he doesn’t, it means Obama did.
If people really can’t vote for the RINO and absolutely must vote third party, well, they didn’t vote to put Obama in charge of decimating the military, putting more ACLU abortion rights lawyers on the courts, hiking taxes and surrendering to al Qaeda, but they didn’t vote to stop him either.
Not an easy argument to put forward, but McCain bad/Obama worse is the fact, IMHO.
What service were you in. I’m in Houston, in the Navy, got out and started college just before Desert Storm I, but did get the expeditionary medal for being in the Gulf on a ship during Earnest Will.
From what I can tell, I agree w/ much of Wise Man’s reasoning, but I think the “more flies with honey than with vinegar” rule is not being followed.
Not that I am calling anyone a fly.
txvet2 – You’re welcome. Anytine I can help. lol
bangs head on desk… Gosh, I haven’t heard that argument yet. Now I’m convinced… /sarc
Heh, Joy.
I’m just surprised that anyone would believe their willingness to purchase a sack will somehow induce others to make a like purchase.
On June 30th, 2008 at 5:59 pm, flenser said:
McCain doesn’t deserve to win, but I’m voting for him because the alternative is worse, and Bob Barr, who follows the KoS/Democrat Underground line on Gitmo and “torture”, isn’t going to win
I guess some here are still unaware that McCain also follows the KoS/Democrat Underground line on Gitmo and “torture”. It’s like people live in a bubble.
Ed – Yes, honey is better, but you did exactly what txvet2 said won’t convince him. It won’t convince me either.
And I’ve posted all the reasons, as have many others, as to why McCain will be worse and is the greatest of two evils. Why can’t we agree to disagree? Why can’t McCainiacs respect our decision not to cast a vote, or vote 3rd party if it’s what we believe after analyzing the situation.
I don’t LIKE the answer I’ve come up with. In fact, I HATE it. But it is what it is and whether or not you and Witless boy understand my reasoning or don’t, you should respect it and know that it comes from hours and days and months of agonizing over the situation. And yes, being female crying about it too. Praying like a fool through tears.
I went to Church on Sunday and we sang My Country Tis of Thee and by the end I was in tears because I know in my heart regardless of who wins in November, my America is gone. My country is dying and there doesn’t seem to be anything I or anybody else can do to stop it. It’s like a train wreck about to happen and the train is moving too fast to stop and not enough people even care. They’re all still too comfy in their homes with all their toys and watching American Idol on a bigscreen TV. And it hurts on a level I can’t explain in words.
There simply is no winning this election cycle unless somthing drastically changes between now and Nov 4th.
126 Joyce
It is about the only argument there is. McCain has little to recommend him, beyond Obama will be far worse. There is a difference between a RINO, whose ‘Democrat’ leanings are like those of Joe Lieberman, over a Ned Lamont type/KoS endorsed uber-lib who is best buddies with domestic terrorists.
One small plus, McCain is a genuine war hero, and not only is Obama anti-military, he is sending his surrogates onto Sunday morning talking head shows to claim fighting in a war and being helf prisoner five years gives McCain no advantage over Obama. of course, Obama, the “good cop”, claims to respect McCain’s service the next day, but why was Weasley Clark on TV to begin with? Why did CBS deem him news worthy?
He was sent, obviously.
But back to the original question. If you must suffer from bronchitis versus lung cancer, you choose bronchitis. The chance of survival is better. You can say “neither”, but the answer is a binary one or the other.
McCain is bronchitis.
On June 30th, 2008 at 7:27 pm, flenser said:
I admit that I should have included the word “viable” in there somewhere. You see, You can write in Ralph Nader or Bob Barr but they aren’t getting elected to anything, and that is no lie. It probably has something to do with them being pide pipers of misfits.
Gee Cynthia McKinney is running!
You can pretend that your second string Ron Paul has a snowballs chance in hell of sitting in the oval office, but your choice of viable candidates still comes down to Obama or McCain.
Joy, I think I can disagree with you and stay respectful. This is a political blog, people disagree. Well, this is a conservative blog. From what I hear, any view contrary to the party line is grounds for quick banning at KoS or Democrat Underground.
I agree with Wise Man’s reasoning, but think he’d have a better chance of convincing the undecided, or even the already decided, by being a bit mellower about it.
Of course, I know some have insulted me for saying I’ll vote for McCain despite his numerous flaws, maybe Wise Guy has been insulted as well. Doesn’t totally excuse it. But I’ve done it myself, Khan insults me greatly for recommending people vote against Obama, for McCain, I insult him back, calling him a Moby, he insults me back, I try to lower the temperature by saying calling him a Moby isn’t fair, a day or too later he is being insulting again. Well, I think he is being insulting, saying I should change my nic to ‘Sean Hannity’. I know it was meant as an insult, I know Michael Savage doesn’t like Hannity, but even though I know I am supposed to be insulted, well, I don’t listen to Hannity a lot, but I do listen some, and it seemed weak as an insult.
Anyway, people don’t insult me, I don’t insult them, and I am trying hard to be respectful to people who respectfully disagree with me.
Which brings up yet another problem, Ed: all McCain did in response was to mumble a few word about how that wasn’t nice. As noted up top – “Why stick your neck out for him?” said one Republican operative. I’d add “especially since he’s not willing to stick out his own neck and mix it up the fray?”
Anyway, “McCain isn’t as bad as Obama” isn’t going to convince everyone, but it is the only one I can think of. And people are quite free to vote third party.
For people saying “you can’t tell me who to vote for!”, darn right, I don’t know who you are and where you live, and don’t know hypnosis anyhow.
I know nothing about the Constitution Party candidate, other than he is a pastor. He might be a better President than McCain or Obama. But he will not win. If he polls higher than about 20% between now and November, get back to me, I’ll consider voting for him.
But despite a dozen or more candidates, either Obama or McCain will be sworn in next January, unless they become physically incapable of holding the office between now and then.
And unlike Bill Clinton, who had a Republican Senate from his first day in office, to keep him from doing more damage than he did, if Obama does win, he’ll have solid majorities in both chambers of Congress. Plus Obama is far more radical than Bill Clinton was.
Purple-
didn’t claim he was a master campaigner.
His ego, which has him tweaking the conservative base now, may eventually put him on attack mode now that Obama and the formerly sympathetic MSM are starting to turn on him.
McCain, IIRC, has been a tad squishy on so called “assault weapons”, but has generally been fairly good on gun rights.
NRA gathers ammo against Obama
OK, McCain has also been squishy on background checks for gun purchases before.
He ain’t perfect, but he ain’t Obama either.
Bed time…
Which brings up even yet another problem, Ed: mumbling about not being “bipartisan nice” is his attack mode.
As I recall, the Republicans didn’t take the Senate until 1994, same as the House. That’s how Clinton managed to get the largest tax increase in history through.
On June 30th, 2008 at 10:06 pm, txvet2 said:
John McCain is an Annapolis graduate and a genuine war hero. He could have gone home after the fire on Forrestal, instead he transferred to one of the 2 attack squadrons that were flying the most dangerous missions in the war. VA 163 conducted intricate strikes on Haiphong over the course of 2 days, stopping the delivery of Russian SAMs there and saving American lives. The attack that McCain was shot down on was an attack on the most heavily defended city from air attack in human history, including Berlin in WW2.
He stayed with a hit aircraft to deliver his bomb on the thermal electricity plant, causing him to lose the opportunity to eject within the safe parameters of his ejection seat. It nearly killed him. Captured, stabbed, beaten, 3 out of 4 limbs broken and neglected he almost died until they found out the was the son of an admiral. They patched him up and offered him a chance to leave ahead of other POW’s. He chose to do he honorable thing and stay. They put him through 5 and a half years of punishment for that, re-breaking his arms and kicking in his teeth. He returned home to command the largest squadron in the fleet and kept it at a high level of readiness despite the post Vietnam budget cuts.
When he left the Navy, in part because he couldn’t stay flight qualified because he was having trouble raising his arms above his head he ran for and was elected to congress and then the Senate, where he succeeded Bary Goldwater. Aside from 2 truly lousy laws he helped pass he has been consistently dedicated to the republicans and has a 82% conservative approval rating. He has raised 7 children 2 of whom are in the Marines and have gone to or are going to Iraq.
Re Iraq McCain was right about the boots on the ground, right about the up-armored Humvees, right about the the body armor, right about the ammunition, right about Rumsfeld, right about needing counterinsurgency tactics, right about the role of Iran, right about General Petraeus, right about the surge and he was right before anyone else would acknowledge that he was right.
McCain will not appease the islamists who have attacked us and he will not sell out our allies to buy “peace in our time”. Domestically he will not create gigantic entitlement programs that will bankrupt the country and that people will hold on to like every other entitlement program. McCain has been a deficit hawk throughout his career and has been one of 5 senators to forgo earmarks. He has vowed to allow domestic oil exploration with the exception of one place. He has vowed to veto pork filled budgets. He has vowed to appoint conservative judges to the supreme court. He has vowed to track down Bin Laden and kill the SOB. He has vowed to take on the teachers unions who have turned our schools into places where children are indoctrinated and not taught a damn thing. He has guts, he loves the country and he has dedicated his life to it.
Does he have some bad ideas? sure. But that means that we the people are going to have to get off our rears and try to prevent the government from acting on them. As President he will no longer be writing laws and the good people of Arazona will hopefully send someone to the Senate who be less likely to antagonize Malkin readers.
So there, something other then “McCain be bad, Obama… worse” I didn’t even mention what a disaster Obama would be.
Of course, he also vowed he had “learned his lesson” about his amnesty give-America-away plan. His most recent vow is the give-away America to illegals will be his “top priority yesterday, today and tomorrow” from his first day in office.
So much for that “vows” thing. (And that’s not to mention his issue with getting priorities right.)
Of course, he also vowed he had “learned his lesson” about his amnesty give-America-away plan. His most recent vow is the give-away America to illegals will be his “top priority yesterday, today and tomorrow” from his first day in office.
So much for that “vows” thing. (And that’s not to mention his issue with getting priorities right.)
Let’s just hope that McCain is lying to the Illegals to get votes. After all, the means do justify the ends – NOT
On another MM post McCain promised to revisit “comprehensive immigration reform” within 100 days of his swearing in. He said of course the borders need to be secured first. Well, someone please explain how he’s going to secure the borders in 100 days.
The man is a lying snake.
One more thing. Picking McCain over Obama is like bailing the Titanic with a bucket instead of a thimble.
JetJaguar 144 – Exactly.
And in honor of McCain’s constant pandering to La Raza: CLICK HERE
What? You mean a “vow” from a politician doesn’t convince you? Howz about if he just declares it “secure” on day one? Yeah, that’s the ticket.
And can you imagine how much further to the left a Democrat-run congress will push him? Well, not that it’d take much “pushing”.
What? You mean a “vow” from a politician doesn’t convince you? Howz about if he just declares it “secure” on day one? Yeah, that’s the ticket.
And can you imagine how much further to the left a Democrat-run congress will push him? Well, not that it’d take much “pushing”.
Ooops. Double posting – gotta restart the ol’ PC!
Ooops. Double posting – gotta restart the ol’ PC!
And I still think McCain is even worse once again because:
He’ll have the support of the R’s when he’s POTUS with a lot more power to actually pass his treasonous amnesty.
He’ll have the support of the D’s because he crosses the aisle so much. And most of his issues are leftist anyway.
Once amnesty is granted there will be millions more voters who ARE NOT going to vote Republican regardless of his pandering. Conservatism will be DEAD for good.
What’s the point of fighting in Iraq when we’re being successfully invaded here?
b. Hussein will NOT have the support of the R’s. They will finally grown ‘malkins’ (whoever started that, it is pure genius.) and fight him.
And once and for all, he’s not going to nominate constitutionalist judges! He won’t nominate the likes of the guys who just gutted part of his precious legislation McCain/Feingold.
And to those who say, ‘but they’ll be more conservative than b. Hussein’s’… what will it matter? Whether left or really left, they will still rule left!
I truly believe it’s too late. We’re headed for a civil war regardless of which is elected and once that happens, the Muslims will jump at the chance while we’re incapacitated to destroy Israel and us.
And finally, McCain has threatened to jump ship to the D’s TWICE. And I personally believe that the only reason he didn’t was he thought he couldn’t run as a D because Hillary had the nomination sewed up. He, like Hillary, didn’t see b. Hussein coming. So some will joke that he’s going to be sworn in and rip of his R suit to reveal a D suit… I actually believe that’s highly probable.
Did he serve honorably and do some great things in the past? Yes, but that was then, and this is now. And we are screwed.
And I should add, with a D congress, who will NOT cross the aisle to the right like he does left, WHO will lead the GANG of 14 that will be needed to get a constitutionalist judge through??? Oh wait, a GANG of 14 won’t work because it will be a D Senate! So he will NOT be able to do it.
D’s may like him, but not enough to give up a SCOTUS judge when they don’t have to!
The crossing the aisle stuff only goes one way!
Joy,
It is hard to pick which one. It’s easy for me to get cynical about the future of our Country, but it helps me to remember that ultimately God is in control. …that despite the efforts of politicians, bureaucrats, and leftists to manipulate others and events to their own ends – that God either thwarts them or uses their efforts to accomplish his purposes (see Psalm 2).
Jet – Yes, exactly. Well said.
On July 1st, 2008 at 12:15 am, purplepeep said:
Of course you know by now that isn’t the whole quote. Regardless, is he where I want him on immigration? No. That just means that the pro enforcement people have some work to do.
“We have to secure our borders—that’s the message,” McCain said. “But we also must proceed with a temporary worker program that is verifiable and truly temporary.”
Again. The other side doesn’t seem to be too shy about giving money and working to see open boarders. Are you a member of FAIR?
Or you can imagine the truly atrocious open boarders bill they will send to Obama and how quick he will sign it? No, evidentially the imagination only works to vilify one side here.
On July 1st, 2008 at 12:56 am, Joy hyperventilated:
OBAMA WILL HAVE THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE. Have you taken a look at what Pelosi and Reid want? Presidents do not write law. The congress does. McCain will only be able to sign or veto what they send him. Same with Obama. We are going to have to make our opinions known in a big way or we are going to have Amnesty with either candidate. Obamas will be worse.
He won’t need them. He will have both the house and the senate, remember?
Once and for all you are wrong.
Foreshadowing what is certain to emerge as one of the major differences between the two parties this fall, Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) this morning decried “the common and systematic abuse of our federal courts by the people we entrust with judicial power” and pledged to nominate only judges to the federal bench who will strictly interpret the Constitution.
McCain said Supreme Court Justice John Roberts and Justice Samuel Alito “would serve as the model for my own nominees if that responsibility falls to me”…
Good lord.
And finally, you are wrong again..
“I [do not] have any intention of, or cause to, leave the Republican Party.” -McCain
Hardly. I’ve already debunked one of your misrepresentations regarding Barr, do I need to debunk another?
#142:
Ed, you should’ve read your own link (#80), because you got it wrong. See post #84.
Great interview with Bob Barr. I know there are many here who vote based on pro-life, so perhaps you’ll be pleased to learn Barr shares your views.
A couple of excerpts:
Does it make you question McCain’s conservative credentials to see him support such a costly war?
I’m not sure that anybody can legitimately say that McCain is conservative.
But some of your positions don’t fit that description. For example, you’re pro-life, even though the party is pro-choice.
It is. But there are, within the party, a number of pro-life Libertarians. It’s a big tent. Very similar to the way it was when the Republican Party cared about substance and you would have free-market Republicans, economic Republicans, those for whom foreign policy was their focus, education, religion, and so forth.
It’s funny you say, “they had presented to us previously,” when you’re talking about two different administrations. Do you see the White House as a single institution, regardless of who’s president?
It is…Every administration that comes in takes the powers that it inherits from its predecessor as a floor, not a ceiling. So whether it’s McCain or Obama, they’ll inherit the powers of the Bush administration.
Interview
Its like people want to see just how bad Obama will be with a Dem House and Senate. We have to teach the RNC a lesson, and ruin America in the process.
Good lord.
Prepare for more attacks on US soil. He’ll weaken the PATRIOT act to the point where the NSA won’t catch terrorist plots.
He’ll lose a war we are winning in Iraq.
We’ll get socialized rationed health care. This means that some sort of oversight organization will decide when and if you get care. So you baby boomers and older might as well get your burial plots ready. If care costs a lot of money to give you a couple of extra months or a few years, you might be left out.
Gas will be $10 per gallon. Gas shortages.
Food shortages and high prices.
His tax policies will grind the economy to a halt. He wants to double the capital gains tax. Guess when investors are going to sell? Right after Obama gets elected. Investors would rather pay 15% now, than the chance they’d pay 28% in 2009. Prepare for an epic sell off after the Nov elections. Wanna see an 8,000-9,000 DOW?
Weaken the Constitution. Guarantee that SCOTUS will trash many of the amendments.
Fairness doctrine will ruin talk radio.
I am not a big fan of McCain, but we can battle him on a few issues rather than stand by and watch Obama destroy America.
Any voter that helps Obama get elected could be changing America for the worse for decades.
#175: JT,
Obama or no Obama, I’d like to see the PATRIOT Act repealed.
We’ve already won the war in Iraq; the war is over. A dictator was ousted, sovereignty was returned to the country ahead of schedule, a government and constitution have been voted into existence by the people, and now the government is opening up oil fields for bids.
Unfortunately, there is no guarantee McCain would be any different here. He’s not exactly a protectionist of the Constitution. “while Sen. John McCain likes to talk about appointing conservative judges to the Court, his allies in this case were Justices John Paul Stevens, Stephen Breyer, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, and David Souter – all members of the liberal block.”
Bill Grant.
George McGovern was a genuine war hero. So what? This has no bearing on a persons suitability to be President.
True. But it’s equally true that any voter that helps McCain get elected could be changing America for the worse for decades.
The RNC is ruining America, and you want to encourage them to keep doing it.
Sure, if you don’t count that two trillion dollar amnesty bill. Or that four trillion dollar global warming bill.
I’d be delighted to give him a highway in AZ with his name on it, if he’d curb his more expensive fantasies. McCain is a hundred times the corporate whore that Don Young is.
flenser,
So you are for Americans dying in terrorist attacks on American soil and losing the war in Iraq and creating a terrorist state?
I will guarantee an attack(s) on US soil if Obama becomes elected. I work in NYC and I really would prefer not dying.
Can an attack happen otherwise… sure? But Obama’s a lock.
We let the RNC get this way, but you fight grassroots with the House and Senate. And you fight McCain when he tries to push Amnesty. There is a good crop of young conservatives coming up, that is the new movement we should support.
But to abandon America to Obama is just plain lunacy.
Why do you guys always have to resort to strawmen?
Taking 1 sentence out of the context of what I posted doesn’t alter the whole of the Argument. I wouldn’t be too quick to write off the lessons in leadership learned at Naval Academy or the Naval War College. Or from his POW experience. Or from Commanding a squadron.Or the 50 frigging years of service to this country which I guess you think you are owed. Juxtapose that to the grand total of NOTHING that Obama has done to serve anyone other then himself and the choice should be clear.
Yes, your beloved DNC has done such a spectacular job, I know.
Good boy, stay on message. Right?
Firstly, those aren’t earmarks. Secondly, as president he wont be writing laws any more. Thirdly, if you are going to make up ridicules spending figures you really owe it to yourself to make them either somewhat rational or alternatively, go for the gusto. Why not say that the McCain plot to import evildoers and crush cuddly puppies will cost $Googolplex.00 in the fiscal year of 2009-2010? That would make Obama look better by comparison, right?
Again, he has been a deficet hawk throughout his career. That is provable fact. Your candidate has never worked on a budget that was balanced, he is proposing, yes, provably: Trillions in brand spanking new entitlement programs that will be a complete disaster for the country. They will get people hooked on nanny-state government for the foreseeable future. I don’t want to live in a nanny state. Certainly not one run by Obama.
Amen. I stood on the Brooklyn terrace and watched aircraft full of people being deliberately flown in to buildings full of people. That there are people out there talking about surrendering to the monsters who did that is disgusting enough. That they are patting themselves on the back for it because they believe that it makes them “authentic conservatives” is pathetic. If I seem a bit short on patience with them it is only because I believe the country is at steak.
More strawmen.
Any conservative that writes in, doesn’t vote for POTUS, or doesn’t vote for McCain IS VOTING FOR OBAMA. Period.
Battle McCain on his issues but pull the switch for him. Then support true conservatives going forward.
It certainly didn’t help when George Allen flamed out. He might have had a goos shot.
What if Obama gets elected and we get more RINO’s not less?
The RNC will get the message. I gave the guy an earful over the phone the other day. I write letters and send it in the mailers.
I think we hoped that we’d get more conservatives during Bush, but it didn’t happen.
Any conservative who votes for Juan McCain isn’t a conservative. Of course, neither is McCain.
You’re just an enabler, JT. Please reconcile these two statements:
Hint: If McCain is elected, we get a RINO. Again.
Well, since you put punctuation on it, it must be true.
This point might be working against your case, not for it. Electing someone to the left of the current president would have the same, if not worse, effect on the conservative base, wouldn’t it?
Vote for McCain… No one is going to stop you. But parroting the SAME things OVER and OVER as nauseum isn’t going to convert anyone. We’ve heard you. We simply disagree on a long term outcome.
Braaaaack, Obama’s worse, BRAAAAACK.
And no, a VOTE is FOR someone, not AGAINST someone else. The founding fathers are rolling over in their graves listening to that comment (sorry, parrots are smarter).
Gosh, I can’t figure it. *scratching my head* Wonder why?
I’m NOT VOTING POTUS. GOT IT? And your bullying, badgering, ad hominem attacks and rudeness and name calling aren’t going to change my mind… shocking isn’t it?
I’m not trying to get you to not vote. That’s my choice. You need to follow your conscience if you’ve got one.
BUT, it’s people like YOU that have brought us to this point. So Thank-you-very-much for helping DESTROY THIS COUNTRY!
Joy,
Its not people like me. I didn’t put McCain in the driver’s seat.
My Congressman is conservative. My mayor is conservative. I’m working to dump one of my liberal senators in November. I am looking to take the other senator when he is up for re-election. I’m looking and other congressmen to support in NJ. My effort is there.
I even give money to out of state candidates. I like the guy in PA to take other Murtha. I’m looking at others to support.
Look my two picks for Republican nominees were Thompson and Romney. I voted for Romney, and I am really disappointed that the media, Independents and Democrats got to pick the Republican nominee.
Conscience to me means:
1) Protecting the troops
2) National security
3) Drilling for our resources
I will not stand by and watch NYC get attacked again under Obama’s watch. I lost friends and associates that day, and I have not forgotten.
We need to change the rules in each so that only Republican can vote in their own primaries that would be step 1.
I wish we had better candidates but that’s not what we got.
Someone told me once that you should vote for President like the lives of your friends and family depend on it.
I’ll vote for McCain, and battle him and the RNC on the issues in which I disagree.
We have some good conservatives that we can advance in this country going forward. I’m going to concentrate on that.
JT – Thank you for the polite answer. I do understand where you’re coming from.
I just wish that McCain supporters would at least attempt to understand the reasoning behind not voting for him. AND understand that we are voting or not as if our lives depend on it. I’ve agonized over this. Not a day goes by that I don’t. I’ve said I think it is already too late, BUT if there is hope it won’t be by doing more of the same and hoping for a different result.
I respect your decision. Try to respect mine. I didn’t come to this decision lightly or flippantly or because I feel ‘dissed.’
Depending on who he chooses as VP, it’s possible I could change my mind. And it makes me sick to think like this, but it would be in the hopes that he croaks and the VP would be able to take over. *If* he brings Mitt on as VP, I might vote for them, or someone really true blue conservative. But if he picks a Dem or or another RHINO, I won’t. I just can’t. He’s already promised Dems in his cabinet.
MM posted one day to pray for Kennedy because we should be able to ’set politics aside.’ I don’t agree with that thinking any more, because politics is what will make or break this country right now. I didn’t and couldn’t pray for that man to live because I see him as a massively evil influence in our country’s politics.
I wouldn’t cheer his passing either, I’d just be relieved.
And if someone points out a flaw in the reasoning that you have used to come to your conclusion?
So that basically leaves you with giving up on the country. If it is already over what’s the point in even complaining about it? Personally, I can’t accept that. I intend to fight the downfall of the USA every step of the way.
Nice.
Mitt has already been labeled with the dreaded “RINO” tag here.
Joy,
I have a hunch the VP will be Tim Pawlenty. Not a bad choice either.
My feeling is do you want a fatal wound like Obama as President or some cuts and sprains from McCain.
McCain has been wrong to treat conservatives the way he has, but at least it seems he’ll listen ie., drilling for energy.
The next time would be the first. So far, no one has been able to do it.
Grant – Flaws have been exposed in your thinking too. A lot of them. You ignore them. And this is my first and last response to you cuz you’re an ass with most everyone.
JT – As I’ve said before I feel both are going to deal a fatal wound.
I’m off for a while. I’ll check back later.
Where?
Where?
Where are these flaws? Educate me
If this is your first response to me how could you have pointed out the flaws in my reasoning?
Almost as classy as wishing people dead.
She didn’t say that she was the one to point out the flaws in your thinking, only that they have been pointed out. And she’s right; you do ignore them.
McCain is not going to drill for energy, and he has not said that he would.
I did that in 2004 with Bush. I bought into the argument of support the poor Republican over the worse Democrat. I figured after Bush the party would swing back to the right. No way I’m supporting it as it goes even further to the left.
Sen. John McCain said Monday the federal moratorium on offshore oil and gas drilling should be lifted, and individual states given the right to pursue energy exploration in waters near their own coasts….
McCain also suggested giving the states incentives, including a greater share of royalties paid by companies that drill for oil, as an incentive to permit exploration….
McCain’s presidential rival, Sen. Barack Obama, opposes an end to the moratorium, a spokesman said.
Joy,
Take a deep breath. As a coutry we are going to be fine. We have gone through much worse times than this. I lived through the Jimmy Carter Presidency we can live through this.
We have the choice to vote for Obamanation or Obamanation Lite. The real important vote is for who controls congress.
A few words from a past struggle that was overcome. This date in history was the start of the battle that prompted these words.
It isn’t hard for me to understand why people have a hard time backing mccain. He’s really a democrat. Obama is a socialist but the rnc is so weak it won’t call him one. I think they have so much to attack obama on, perhaps they are waiting to closer to the election but I think they did a bad job going after john kerry too. Mccain has already made a number of mistakes when he did choose to go after obama and now obama’s machine is cutting the negativity off at the pass. For example about obama not visiting iraq..and now obama has because of that criticism that mccain called for a bit too early. Sometimes I think mccain is there to set up obama to win…it’s like letting obama look over his shoulder to the answers on the test. Deep down though I don’t think obama will win.
I notice also that republicans defend mccain as an anti obama vote. That didn’t work so well for the dems last election while they voted for kerry as an anti bush vote. I say they need to turn around and demand of the republican party to actually put a republican on the ticket. Otherwise, it looks like we rolled over to democrat land. I don’t fear this election like I do 2012.
Flenser said: Then support true conservatives going forward.
So then when do we actually support true conservatives? What happens in 2012 while we all rolled over for mccain the democrat and now we have two socialists on the ticket to choose from? That is next…just like France. Then we’ll be picking between the worst socialist. Joy.
Hey how do you know who has a fat ass??? Do nothing?? Do nothing? I can’t tell you how many times I’ve called and written so called representatives from various states…as have many here. What do you suggest we do short of joining the minutemen, which many of us can’t afford to do and are too far from the border to join up. It’s pretty obvious these pols have no intention of securing the border. The Save Act sits gathering dust despite the overwhelming wish of Americans that something be done. The Republicans are a useless group and conservatives need to start a new party and leave those jerkoffs in the dust!!!