Patriotism in Denver: Black national anthem
Out: The Star-Spangled Banner.
In: The Black National Anthem.
Racial separatism at an official government gathering.
Hey, it’s “art!”
Posted in: Political Correctness, Race Hustlers
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- Obama’s Definition of New Patriotism on Display in Denver «
- She Can’t Be Serious…(part 2 in a series) | Denver Metblogs
- NEWS & OPINION ROUNDUP (2 JULY 2008) THE "BLACK NATIONAL ANTHEM" EDITION | Democrat=Socialist
- Keep Austin Corporate
- Black National Anthen replaces the National Anthem at Denver Event « POLITISITE: Politics from the RIGHT Side of the WEB
- The Median Sib
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- Liberty Peak Lodge
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Both are beautiful songs. What was wrong was that Lift Up… was snuck in. Why not sing both and say so? I used to think this country was different from the Balkins, but no more. We are evolving into regions of different races and cultures and the wars will begin soon.
‘Dixie’ is beautiful too, jwm. Why not sing that? As long as you ’say so’??
Amen! I couldn’t have said it better. I probably would have spent the night in the cooler if I had been in attendance. If just one person there would’ve had the guts to pull her mic or just stand up and sing the real anthem over top of her. Where are America’s men? Not all of them can be in Iraq or Afghanistan.
True story:
My dad (ret. AF, I’m AD AF) was stationed at Andrews AFB, MD in the late 80’s and all the kids had the be bussed off base for school. Well at my elementary school me and a few other base kids were almost suspended for our actions during a school assembly.
Near the end of the assembly, they (the school admins and teachers) asked everyone to please rise and join in signing the “Black National Anthem”. My friends and I being the patriotic mil brats that we were, proudly rose and started singing the Star Spangled Banner. It soon dawned on us that, that was not what they were singing, confused we stopped singing and quietly sat down. When asked to stand back up, we looked at the teacher and politely told them that the US of A has ONE National Anthem and what they were singing was NOT it.
We were then escorted out of the room and our folks called to come get us because we were being suspended for showing disrespect and disruptive behavior during the assembly.
When our folks showed up (all of which were NCOs (enlisted folks)), they kindly asked what all the hubbub was about. When the Vice Principal told them what had happened, they looked at her like she had just lost her mind. Unknown to us kids our parents had already selected a spokesperson by the tried and true military method highest rank wins
. Well in this case the highest rank was a Chief Master Sergent and not only was he an old school Chief and about 6+ foot tall, 220+lbs (all muscle), but he also happened to be African-American.
The Vice-Principal thought that because they shared this ethnicity they he would be in agreement with her decision. The Chief let her rant about how disrespectfully us kids were and such. He smiled the entire time. When her head of steam seemed to have subsided, he asked her is she was done. She said yes. Still smiling and as polite as can be he turns to us kids and says “how bout you all wait out side in the hall.” Now even as a kid we knew when a Chief says “how bout you go wait in the hall” you exit as fast as possible cause some one was about to get an butt chewing.
The V-P started to object but the Chief just held up a single index finger for her to wait. No sooner does the door close than he proceeds to to tell her exactly what he thinks of her so called opinion about there being a “Black National Anthem”. He also “schooled” the Vice-Principal about the history of the REAL National Anthem, what it stood for, and that if the crap she was spouting was the kind of racist, segregation BS this school was going to be spouting then he would see to it ALL of the base kids would be moving schools.
Back in the hall even though we could hear every word, we stayed quite but were smiling away. They soon finished up in the office and when the door opened our parents filed out, the Chief turns to us kids and says “Good job guys. I’m sorry this happened but I’m proud that you all were polite and didn’t cause this mess. Now get back to class.”
As we started back to class I turned to my best friend and said “WOW you dad sure told her off.” My friend turns to me and happily says “thats why he’s a Chief.”
To this day I still don’t know who laughed first or hardest us kids or our parents.
Cheers and have a great 4th!!!!
Ish
She said that she made the decision after a Russian broadcaster interviewed her and asked her what it was like to be an American.
At that moment, she said, she realized that as an African-American she at times feels like a foreigner in her home country.
“And I was going to correct her,” [Michelle O.] said. “And I realized I didn’t feel like an American, and that bothered me a great deal.”
She did mean disrespect…she admitted as much earlier in the interview. She premeditated it, and she concealed her intentions because she knew they wouldn’t let her do it if she told them what she wanted. How much of a dumbass is this Hickenlooper??
someone should remind this idiot what was happening 145 years ago today
Faraway, thank you for linking to this article. I was approaching this from an angle based on this comment:
I was thinking this had a different intent behind it than what came across. People are more willing to forgive if it was an honest mistake. But that outlook changes when she says something like this:
“I pulled a switcheroonie on them…”
30pieces, again, I was trying to figure out if there was any type of positive lessons that could be learned from this incident. This is what I meant when I said “Let’s look at the positives that can come about from this event.” But again, that was before I read the “switcharoo” statement.
To your post #58, I think we both agree a public apology would be in order to those offended.
Traveler49, if you (or anyone else) felt that the *sigh* was demeaning, then I certainly apologize. That was not meant towards anyone. After I read the statement:
I became a little discouraged because statements such as this one do not aid in the honest discussion on race that we must have. So again, it was not meant to be disrespectful, and I apologize if that is how is was interpreted.
Send_me regarding post #72:
When I was talking about understanding our differences, it was meant to try to understand the historical heritage of others. Kwanzaa is a holiday that is celebrated in the United States, but it is something that people can learn and understand why it is celebrated. That is what I was talking about. There is growth and progress to be made when we try and understand the cultural heritage from which people have come.
Anyone on here that buys that crap should know that George Strait has some property for sale.
This is the kind of thinking..that is losing America to all this multi- cultural stuff(BS)…..Actually it will not be the elite’s, liberals, or special interest groups who end up running America….it will be Mexico…if we don’t close the border… this idiot will be singing in Spanish…. If you think its bad now….. think about what is coming down the road with this type of thinking and lack of action and control… Multi-cultural is NOT a NATION…Become part of our Nation first!! Our leadership is failing all of us as American’s….(Bush, Barry Obama, and McCain-Kennedy can all go to hell on standing up for America) No one seems to want to assimilate to the true American way of life..be American First!! Be a proud American First!! Stand up for America!! If you going to live here…then act like you want to be part of the greatest free country in the world…otherwise…. (you finish it!!)
Happy Independence Day… 2008
Mr. wighttrasch is from Africa, but has never heard of this ‘holiday’. Regardless, what has that got to do with this topic?
You know, I really would like to see some outrage on this matter from the candidates. And I mean outrage – not Hopey’s lame, monotone “outrage” or McLame’s calm “outrage” like he displayed in regards to Clark’s idiotic comment.
I also think Congress should pass a resolution condemning this disgraceful behavior. Then we might get some insight on who truly loves this country.
You people have nerve. Why should she apologize??? The event was about her; people came to see her; it was important to her to make a political/racial statement at that exact time becauise she wanted to. Everybody wanted to know what she felt at that moment about the black experience in America and she was going to express herself. And it was unimportant to her that what she selfishly did offend most of the people in the audience, because we have ONE National Anthem for everybody, and disrespecting the National Anthem and of course, those evil caucasion people was of paramount importance to her at that time, regardless of the fact that she didnt bother to tell the people that bestowed upon her the honor of singing the NA; she was going to make her point anyway.
What do you think about the white guy who had his hand over his heart?
Neither this discussion nor my comments were about race. Race has nothing to do with the subversive act of replacing the Star Spangled Banner with another song. My comments were not racial in nature, but rather focused on that act and the culture to which this poem/song embodies. Now, this does not mean that we cannot have an honest discussion about race. For example, what is a race? What benefits are there in discussing race? While discussing race, should we or should we not discuss culture? What is racism? What is the source of racism? What is prejudice? Are there good forms of prejudice? Is affirmative action a just policy? What changes need to occur in our society concerning race? Absolutely, I’d love to talk about these things.
Um, I dont want to have any discussion about race. Ive too many bills to pay, too many appointments to keep, to many calls to make, too many friends and family to catch up with, and just generally trying to live my life and take care of my responsibilities. Ya know, things that are important to me. “Discussions” about race are more like one sided lectures. Why do I need or want that???
It’s up to us to push back. If any one of us is ever at an event when our Anthem or Flag is not honored properly we should stand to our feet and make it known. The sweetest justice in this event would have been if the audience sung the REAL Anthem and drowned out the self-centered Diva.
Understanding the “historical heritage of others” is not growth. Learning from it and applying those lessons learned is growth. Gaining knowledge vice wisdom is not growth. Gaining knowledge is merely the first step towards true education.
It’s for this reason that I feel confident in my assertions that some cultures are better or worse than others. Sure, I’ll study ancient Greek or Hindu or African cultures, but only from a perspective of finding the good, finding what is best. This does not mean I do not respect people with whom I disagree. I respect Muslim people, though I find their culture and religion to be flawed, for example. I respect Mormon people, but do not respect their religion because I think they are wrong. This is not a personal attack, but rather an exercise of my ability judge a good idea versus a bad idea. No different than me saying I do not respect Communism, but respect Communists because they are fellow human beings.
I hear you, which is why I worded the questions that I wrote in the fashion that I did. “What benefits are there in discussing race?” Very little. Much like morale. The more you talk about it, the worse it becomes. “While discussing race, should we or should we not discuss culture?” Culture is seldom mentioned when talking about race, economics, education, sociology, etc. I’d like to know why culture is to be revered, yet kept off limits when discussing these topics. “What is racism?” Nothing more than a collection of ad hominem fallacies strung together concerning race. “What is the source of racism?” Systematic, unevaluated prejudice. “What is prejudice?” A defense mechanism we use based upon previous knowledge and experience. “Are there good forms of prejudice?” Yes. I know better than to go into certain places after dark. Why? I have a knowledge that bad things tend to happen when in certain neighborhoods after dark: a prejudice, but a wise one, yes? “Is affirmative action a just policy?” No. Why should one ill necessitate more ills based upon the same fallacies? “What changes need to occur in our society concerning race?” Allow people to make choices and live with them. Stop trying to fix one fallacy by creating policies based upon more fallacies. Do not try to fix the past. Remove all questions on applications that deal with race. Focus on improving our cultures, not just on learning what others are doing in theirs. Replace openness with reason in our schools.
Send_Me, you have asked some really good questions and I will answer them. I have some thing to take care of right now, but I will respond to your questions in a couple of hours. I look forward to our discussion.
channel 9 news had this commentary on the web:
I sent the mayor’s office a strong email. How stupid does he think we are to try and make us believe that she didn’t have an agenda.
Ok, this is going to take a while, but here goes. I’m going to have to disagree with you that there are little or no benefits to talking about race. Whether we like it or not, race still exists in our society and it remains a topic that some people would rather not talk about. But discussion about race and its barriers can lead to a better understanding of people and their beliefs and how their race affected or still affects their identity. Racism, unfortunately, is not dead yet. It is not a fallacy. There are some instances of racial intimidation that have no other explanation but racism. At the same time, racism cannot be an excuse for everything. There are certain statistics that are cited, and categorized by race, that would be impossible to blame on racism… it is purely about personal responsibility- plain and simple. While we can say racism may not be as up-front as it used to be 40 years ago, it is far from dead.
In the future, if Sen. Obama is elected president, this country will have to answer questions unlike anything it has ever seen in our lifetime. For example, when he makes a decision and people are critical of that decision, it is possible that some people would come to his defense because (consciously or unconsciously) they feel that Sen. Obama must be defended. They may ask the question to those same critics “how much of this criticism is based on the actual policy decision and how much is based on the fact that a person of color is now in a position of authority?” We are already seeing examples of this misunderstanding when people are accused of being “racist” when they simply trying to be critical of his policy. At the same time, those who see these critics make baseless accusions then wonder if it is not part of a concerted effort to try and bring him down.
For example, remember E.D. Hill and her infamous “Terrorist Fist Jab” comment? You may have or you may not have (as this incident did not make MichelleMalkin.com). Why did she make that comment? What connection was there between Sen. Obama making a fist-bump with his wife… and terrorism???
As I said, this country is going to have to ask itself some very hard questions. One of which is “now that a black man is in the highest position of power, shouldn’t we do away with affirmative action?”
There have been many discussions on Affirmative Action here on MichelleMalkin.com before. I believe that it was former Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O’Conner who said that Affirmative Action is still needed in our country. However according to Justice O’Conner, in the next 25 years or so, it should not be necessary. A.Action exists because of a historial imbalance against a group of individuals. There are some that argue that A.Action is not limited to just race, although that is what is discussed the most. The fallacy is not Affirmative Action itself, but rather the belief that imblances and opportunities connected to race do not remain at this point in time. Affirmative Action was meant to try and correct that balance.
When you see some of the animated reactions to cultural differnces that are sometimes presented, it is no wonder why some people would prefer not to talk about it! Culture is not off limits. In fact, cultural discussion is needed. African Americans, when brought over from slavery, (mostly) are not able to identify with a specific country in Africa. So there is a certain connection with the entire continent. The Black National Anthem serves as a reminder of the struggles that African Americans had to endure, not just during slavery, but also during the days of Jim Crow laws and the Black Codes. When it speaks of staying true to our “native land,” it speaks to never forget the history and whose shoulders upon which African Americans stand. It serves not to recycle a mentality of victimization. Additionally, the Star Spangled Banner is a song that reminds all Americans not to forget the battles waged and won to ensure our freedom. IN THE DENVER INCIDENT, the lyrics should not have been replaced. I am reminded of I Corinthians 14:40 “Let all things be done decently and in order.”
Like which group(s)one identifies with? I’m interested in why you would do this. Sometimes companies keep track for their own record keeping. They want to make sure that they keep a diverse workforce, one that ensures that multiple viewpoints and experiences are expressed in decision-making.
At the same time, as time goes by, I believe that the definitive lines will begin to blur. Indeed, that is already happening. What happens at that point to racial conversation and cultural identity is certainly a question that will fuel many answers and speculation.
Let me answer a question with a question. In all seriousness, do you think that discrimination and prejudice do not exist? The reason why I ask is when someone sees a name on an application such as Tamesha, does that (for a split second) conjure a racial association as opposed to a name such as James? Studies have shown that discrimination does occur just by looking at a name. Is that racism or just plain discrimination? Good question, it will more than likely depend on who you ask.
I do think that understanding the historical heritage of others is growth. Years ago, I had a very good friend who was Jewish that I went to school with. Though I was Christian, he invited me over to his home to show me how they celebrated Passover and Rosh Hashanah. This was an important cultural lesson and it helped me to understand how his culture influenced his life today. I mentioned Kwanzaa earlier in our discussion. This, too, can serve as a bridge to understanding how different cultures recognize and connect to their past, while looking forward to the future. The Black National Anthem, when sung, is a great way of learning culture. This song has been around for over 100 years. Those who sing the song do so with great reverence to those that have come before.
For me, it was very difficult to separate the two. As much as you may not have intended them to be, I interpreted that to mean that “if would like to stay true to your native land, then get the heck out!” When most people sing “true to our native land,” I do not interpret that to mean that they hate America. Most African Americans are proud to be free and live in the land of the free. At the same time, this song serves as a reminder that there are still elements that combat social progress. Everytime I see a noose, hung in order to produce racial intimidation, it is a reminder that racism is still alive and by standing up and declaring racial intolerance will not be tolerated in our country, we most one step closer to the phrase “let us march on til victory is won.”
I hope I have answered some of your questions Send_Me. These are questions that will surely be discussed on this site and in our country in the future for years to come. I look forward to them.
DarkKnight,
I’ve read your responses and I am aware that they are addressed to Send_Me. However, I couldn’t help but notice how one-sided your worldview is. I’m black and the notion that black people cannot be racists due to a lack of “power” is pure BS. Yet, you don’t address that aspect at all in your post.
You don’t say! I thought there was only one race! Dooooiiiieee.
Thank you for the response.
I suppose I’ll start with that which I’m in agreement with you:
1) You’re right, racism does still exist. When I say racism is a series of ad hominem fallicies, I mean this: judging someone for something other than their character, words, or deeds is an ad hominem fallacy. Skin tone plays no role in such things; therefore, any judgments of a person based upon such things is an ad hominem attack. Racism, is, by definition, irrational.
2) You’re also right in respect to Obama. Some folks aren’t going to respect him because of racial issues. Some folks will attack those who don’t like Obama by taking the easy road of calling him a racist rather than forming a rational response to their critiques. Judging him based upon race is no different, categorically, than if folks didn’t like him for his shoe size, eye color, hair color, or shape of his ears. All of these things have one thing in common: they are irrelevant to the issues at hand.
3)I think we’re both in agreement that changing the song in Denver was lacking good judgment.
Some points that I either disagree or need clarification:
1)
The fallacy of which I spoke dealing with A.Action is this: why should one person get hired or admitted into school for reasons other than merit? Anything other than merit that is used as a selection criteria is a fallacy of relevance. Such things have no bearing on the subject.
Now, if I understand, you’re saying that because some folks aren’t getting the same opportunities because of their race, we should discriminate against others to correct the balance? I’ve always hated filling out applications that ask for race and gender, because I knew that because I’m white and male that I’d have a less chance of getting selected. Same thing applies: what does race have to do with getting selected for something that is merit-based? If no one had to fill in the “race” bubble on the test or application, then there would be no race discrimination. This would also prove that any disparities among races in the workforce could be explained by other reasons rather than strictly race (i.e. sociological, economic, cultural, etc.)
2)
I understand what you are saying. This does happen, most assuredly. The questions though are why and how to fix this. I don’t think the government, or even the white community alone, can fix this. From a white person’s perspective they see a name like Tamesha written down, then they think, “yeah, I didn’t get that scholarship because a black person got it solely because he/she was black.” The resentment builds. Your example and this example are both forms of discrimination. Both sides make prejudgments of the other, based upon previous positive or negative experience. Both sides must work to gain the trust and respect of the other. The only way to do this is to clear the playing field of artificial racial boundaries. This was done with the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments. We need to remove all A.Action, an artificial fix that causes resentment in those it discriminates against. I think of how the Tuskegee Airmen did not complain, but earned their respect by outperforming their peers. This sucks, but so does being any sort of underdog. Racial barriers, like any other barrier whether it be economic, social status, handicap, whatever, has to be overcome by hard work, which would hopefully earn the respect of others. If one party flatly refuses to respect the other, then that side loses. I’ve come to trust folks of all races who wear the uniform with me. If I didn’t, I would fail in my job. I don’t respect them because the government told me to do so, but rather I respect them because they proved their worth to me by doing their job effectively and showing me their character. I do this with all people. I have to do this, or someone dies. Trust must be earned, not asked for and given by a third party.
3) I also understand your points on culture. It is important to understand the backgrounds of others in order to improve relations with other folks. It’s only important though as a first step. In order to grow, we must be able to question what we believe and why we believe it. Sure, I’ll always respect the other person, but that doesn’t mean I must respect the basis for their beliefs. This is not to say that I will not seek to understand them further for the sake of common ground so that conversation and debate may take place. I’ll most assuredly do this. It’s the reason I majored in philosophy in college: to understand what people believe and why they believe it and how to argue effectively and efficiently. Arguing, that is, using reason to find the best answer, is ok. It’s what we’re doing now. My point is that just learning what other folks believe is only the first step and not the endstate.
4) I see your point in terms of the music that was sung. My reaction may have seemed harsh. I get that way when I perceive a subversive act performed. It wasn’t the song in and of itself that angered me. In the proper context, I see some value in the poem. Poetry is often a reflection of one’s soul, which is why this poem has value. However, this poem, sung in this instance, under these circumstances, with the motivation of this singer, was a form of subversion against the United States. That was the focus of my anger, not her race or the song on its own merits.
On a side note, I found an article you may find interesting by Ellis Washington on WorldNetDaily. I’d like to know what you think. God bless.
You know, this isn’t rocket science, it isn’t about pride or some colloquial affirmative action. It’s sheer appropriateness (i.e common courtesy), and you just don’t stick it in everyone’s face if you’ve chugging out an alternate view or belief at an event stressing our commonality. Period. The worst result of the post-slavery era (though it really snowballed in the ’60s) that black people in the U.S. have grown up with the concept that “we” (as I’m black myself) are a monoculture –a quasi-nation unto itself, such to the point that black Americans even “have” (or even need!) a such thing as “leaders” for any entire race! (Quick you whites out there — who’s your “leader”? You Asian guys — who’s your “leader” here??) . This cozy “same-color super-community” monocultural mindset was toxic honey for most black Americans in that it has more than discouraged diversification into mainstream America and in turn made a majority of black Americans slaves to the socialistic programs of the Democrat party. It excuses a whopper of a lot of bad behavior and low values under the bogus umbrella of “our culture” like rap and hip-music and horrible attitudes regards the opposite sex, and let’s not get into how slovenly dress mirrors one’s regard of teachers and society and self-esteem. There’s SO much to say on this, but I’ll cut off just to say leave alternate anthems or preaching or lectures to appropriate congregations and forums, NOT in a place where we’re all supposed to be under one banner.
James Greenidge
Queens NY
Send_Me, thank you for writing back. You asked some very good questions and it is my hope that my answers clarify some of the statements that I made.
The emphasis on “hopefully” is mine. The reason why I highlighted that word is because it gives a window wherefore we can understand the other’s position. The reason why the “hopefully” is important is because on one hand, it is a great thing when people are able to work hard and achieve personal success. Some of the most successful people in history have had to rely on their own courage and initiative to make sure they could overcome personal obstacles that have been placed in their way. Just as important as it is for people to understand that they must work hard (James 2:20: “faith without works is dead”) and accept personal responsibility for their actions, society must also do its part to eliminate other obstacles that may be outside of the control of the personal individual. It is true that some people may retain personal prejudices and the chances of getting them to get over their prejudices by telling to them to do so may be slim. But society has placed certain punishments for those who may target a person for discrimination or injury simply because they are part of a certain minority group. We have had discussions on this board before about “hate crimes” and their role in our society, so I will not get into the subject further, but to say that this seems to be (to me at least) our society’s attempt to suppress discrimination based on certain factors.
Indeed. But could there perhaps be intances where one doesn’t have the opportunity for them to try and earn trust, based on someone else’s personal discrimination (for example, being turned away from housing based on sexual orientation)?
When you say uniform, I do not know if that is military or another organization. If that is military, you have my gratitude for your service. I am thinking more along the lines of business practices. If we agree that discrimination still occurs based on people’s personal prejudices, then who is going to tell them that “it would be a good idea to take this person to make your company workforce better.” Perhaps then, once that person in question is in that position, he/she would start to earn the trust of people around them. Even though their name might be unique, they still can show that they are qualified to do the job.
By not overcoming prejudices in the workplace, and relying solely on the “hope” that people will eventually get it leaves the door open for prejudice and discrimination. Not saying it happens all the time, I’m just saying the door is open. This is what W.E.B. Dubois wanted to avoid, and it leads me right into your question about a discussion between Dubois and Booker T. Washington.
I do not know much about the author Mr. Ellis Washington at this time, so I cannot speak to what kind of experiences he has had on which to base his understanding of how to live his life. With that said, it is where he chose to publish the article that is of particular interest to me. World Net Daily is a conservative website (how conservative is based on who you ask). But it seems to me in his article that Mr. Washington is expressing his desire for a “pull-yourself-up” mentality that is a staple of personal responsibility and self-reliance instead of relying on others (such as the government for example). Booker T. Washington is quoted as once saying: “Dignify and glorify common labor. It is at the bottom of life that we must begin, not at the top.” This quote indicates that if black people work hard and accumulate resources that it would hopefully lead to equality… eventually. So Mr. Washington’s beliefs seem to be closely aligned with Booker T. Washington’s beliefs.
W.E.B. Dubois saw it differently. He said that if African Americans spoke up and spoke out against discrimination and actively advocated for the same rights as their white counterparts (for example: voting), then that would be the foundation upon which the movement would be formed in attaining equality in America. This is what eventually happened. I believe that this is what Mr. Washington is referring to when he says that:
While I respect Mr. Ellis Washington’s right to his opinion, I do not agree.
It appears to me that Mr. Washington wants to make a point about “individualism” while slamming “liberals, protests and litigation” (some call this judicial activism, etc.). What I feel Mr. Ellis Washington ignores is that protests can sometimes bring about awareness and change. The Civil Rights Movement protests were key in bringing about change in our country. Litigation can also bring about progress. If it were not for Loving v. Virginia, Mr. and Mrs. Loving could have had all the “personal morality, discipline and… monastic solitude of your local library” IN THE WORLD… and interracial marriage would still be illegal. It took a court case to address this issue! It is confusing to me why Mr. Ellis Washington would ignore those good things that came about from people asking questions when they observe injustices.
It seems to me that this article was perhaps designed to slam liberalism and the “liberal Democrat Party” in general, but I think that he could’ve made his point about the need for the Civil Rights Movement to have had more emphasis for personal responsibility, without going so far as to call people “pretenders, poverty pimps” and “demagogues.”
Underdog. Interesting word choice and I want to ask you why you used that particular term. What makes them, or anyone else who must “outperform their peers” in order to achieve to success, an “underdog?” Are there any more “underdogs” today?
It is also very interesting that you use the Tuskegee Airmen as your example. It provides a perfect example of W.E.B. Dubois’ AND Booker T. Washington’s ideas.
From the Tuskegee Airmen website:
EDIT: Sorry, that last part of the quote is formatted incorrectly. The quote from the website ends at “Each one possessed a strong personal desire to serve the United States of America at the best of his ability.”
The last two paragraphs beginning with “I will close with this” are my own thoughts.
I see your point here. Sexual orientation though is different than race, gender or religion. It’s a choice of behavior rather than an inherent part of our being.
Some people choose through willful ignorance or just plain hate to not look at personal accomplishment or character when judging folks. It’s a sad thing for everyone.
Quite true. But what is the alternative? A.Action, as I understand it, says the following: 1) People “A” are discriminating against people “B”. 2) People “A” will now have to fill a quota of people “B”, hence potentially discriminating against people “A”. 3) Since both sides are discriminating against the other, the end result is equality. The problem though is that now both sides have legitimate feelings of resentment, hence fueling more and stronger prejudices. Relying on the hope that people will treat others decently is our best alternative, unless you can think of something better. Some folks are just jerks, which reminds me of this Far Side calendar.
I mean no offense with this term. I used the term “underdog” to refer to any group or individual that faces either an uphill battle, difficult challenge or injustice. After looking into the denotation of the word in the dictionary, I see part of the actual meaning is that the underdog is expected to lose. I don’t think blacks, or any minority in the United States, are expected to lose. This was an oversight of definition on my part.
I’m still pondering what you said about W.E.B. Dubois, Booker T. Washington, and Ellis Washington.
Oh, and Happy Independence Day, by the way. Hope you and your family had a great time celebrating our Nation’s birthday.
A discussion for another day.
IMHO, Affirmative Action is a policy is a lot more complicated than that. The SCOTUS ruling in 2003 was explained by the Wall Street Journal this way:
So the country continues to discuss and debate how big a role race plays in our everyday lives.
Ironically, there have been a series of articles recently published to address this very issue.
In today’s New York Times.
A VERY interesting read the Wall Street Journal very similar to the discussion we have had.
The AP has also reported on the Affirmative Action debate as well recently.
I believe you when you say you meant no offense. But I do think that your use of the term in the way you intended it also is very interesting. Because many African Americans (according to the above linked articles) still feel that race plays a factor in our society and contributes to that “uphill battle” of which you speak. The best ways to remedy that disagreement continue to be debated.
I’m still interested in your reaction to the WND story and my opinion about it.
I had a great day, thank you for asking. Hope you had a great time as well with you and yours. I have enjoyed our discusion thus far and look forward to your response.
Jeez – those black people are nothing but trouble – who let them into this country anyhow?